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Author Topic: What goes up must come down - some thoughts  (Read 12103 times)

Offline dieter

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What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« on: August 26, 2008, 10:31:00 PM »
Hi everybody, nice to be here, since most people in the real world do not understand my intensions.

First I want to provide some thoughts about gravity and magnetism:

From the scientific point of view, there is no energy potential in gravity. If you  want to use the gravity of an object, you
first have to move it up the hill. Transporting the object up will cost at least as much energy as you could gather from it when
it comes down again.

The same rule applies to ferromagnetic forces. Whenever something is attracted, you will have to spend the same amount of
force to remove it from the field again. See it as a valley: an object may roll down the valley, but there's no way out of the valley
other than to go up the hill again.

These rules are very simple and IMHO they will save you a lot of time by not building some bessler-like wheels that are based on
nothing but gravity, but seem to work in theory, at least on the first look. Don't get me wrong, I didn't say Overunity is impossible.
But tricking gravity with nothing but gravity probably won't work.

At the other hand a combination of multiple forces is still very interesting. Whether a combination of gravity and magnetism will work,
I still don't know. Other combinations do work. You may know the Water/Osmosis Motor that I used to design some months ago. It really works, based on water
evaporation and gravity. (Although it's a weak motor, for me it's important to have success from time to time, even if I can do only "Baby steps").
One thing that I realized when I built the Water Motor, is the fact that a wheel should not need to push itself
away from something that is applied to a stator, because this will always require energy. In this Water Motor parts of the wheel are deforming periodicly,
causing imbalance in the wheel. They deform due to hygroscopic pressure, so they are in no mechanical way in contact with the stator.

So I though how can I cause some kind of deformation in the wheel without to touch the wheel by the stator?? First I thought
"Magnets are the solution" but I was wrong. A Magnet on the stator that is causing Deformation on the rotor is noting else but a physical/mechanical connetion between them!
The force that is required to deform the rotor will be taken directly from the torque - it's only a funny brake, nothing more.

So how could I trigger a force that is applied to the rotor and cause it to deform parts of the rotor, in order to get imbalance?

My main idea to solve the problem is: gravity could trigger a magnet that would deform the rotor. all applied to the rotor.
Imagine a magnet inside a tube, aligned like a spoke. The magnet can move freely inside the tube from the very outline of the wheel towards the axis, for about one inch.
Near the center of the wheel there's a further magnet, fixed on the wheel. These two magnets do attract one another. So the outter magnet will slide inside the tube
until it reaches the limiter. The remaining gap between them is still about one inch or so. Now into this gap I will drop a third, small magnet, with opposing poles. Some lead
ballast and a little track is used to force the 3. magnet in place. This will push the outter magnet away from the wheels center, causing the imbalance we need for a gravity wheel.

So the third magnet will fall between the two other magnets when the wheel is somewhere between angle 0 and 90. When it reaches angle 180 to 270 it will fall back again due to gravity. This way magnet 1 and 2 will be attracting oneantother again.
Now, falling in and out of an opposing magnetic field consumes diffrent amounts of force/torque, even with lead ballast applied. This problem most likely could be solved by adding a further pair of magnets, so the third magnet will always drop between two pairs of magnets that are equalizing the forces. The outter magnet of the compensating pair must of course be fixed. An adjustment screw may be needed to position the outter magnet of the compensating pair in a way that perfectly neutralizes its mobile counterpart, however.

I hope this wasn't too confusing. Maybe I'm going to draw a picture.

The core insight is: all forces (gravity and magnetism) are applied to the rotor - I think this may be the key to one solution.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2008, 10:50:10 PM »
Maybe I'm going to draw a picture.

sounds plausible. still would like to see a drawing though.
thanks for sharing.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 12:35:01 AM »
You might like these two videos, where I test a wheel very like what you have described.

http://www.mediafire.com/?wuldel0syug (the basic wheel, through various modifications)

http://www.mediafire.com/?xhtlsgmm2tt (a clever way of latching the magnets, that almost works)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 12:35:01 AM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2008, 02:24:50 AM »
Ok, here are some drawings. This first one for the sake of simplicity shows the basic rotor without the compensating pairs I mentioned.

The PMs inside the Pipes can move up and down. The PM "B" and the lead Ballast build a unit that can move forward and backward on the tracks. They are gaged in some kind of tunnel to make sure they won't turn and jump around violently.  The magnets near the center are fixed to the rotor.


Offline dieter

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2008, 02:32:12 AM »
Here's the same with the compensation magnet pairs. So unit B is going to alternate between two identicly repelling fields, only gravity will decide on what end of the track the unit lies.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2008, 02:32:12 AM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2008, 02:57:17 AM »
(BTW forgot to say the green magnets are all static, fixed to the rotor)

TinselKoala : I got codec troubles with your movies. Not sure if I am the only one who blocks windows media player from downloading codecs and what not every other day, personally I prefere youtube / flash movies.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2008, 06:58:59 AM »
Too bad. The movies show a wheel that could very easily be converted to your exact design.
It (my Mondrasek Wheel) almost runs of itself in the larger movie.
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/6b56282f5589c651ac185e55e027742b4g.jpg)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2008, 06:58:59 AM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2008, 05:09:46 PM »
All and all, the secret to a gravity wheel is.
 What goes down, must come up. ;D

Offline dieter

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2008, 03:04:33 AM »
AB Hammer - This is why I said "combination" - gravity and magnets. The reason why I show you this picture is: I hope somebody is going to tell me why this wouldn't work.

TinselKoala - That's looking good.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2008, 03:04:33 AM »
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Offline pequaide

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2008, 04:03:17 AM »
If a mass comes down one meter and goes back up 4 or 10 meters you have it. So you are wrong; gravity alone can be used to make energy.

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2008, 04:50:03 AM »
Since I started in the gravity field. I have tried around 50+ builds. Some I knew wouldn't work but I wanted to see the effects. Others I thought would work left my head scratching until it was clear why they did not. I have worked with leavers shifting units extenders, all forms of counter weights and so on. One thing of what I have learned is how to float a weight. This test device is 6 lbs and I can take my pinkie finger and move it around in any direction as well as in and out and it still weighs nearly the same to my pinkie finger at one point. This means that I can put 75% of the mass in any location of a wheel with a very small counter weight of 8 ounces. This means 8 ounces moving 6 pounds and 75% of it can be a positive to the wheel effect. Yes I know that it is a 12 to 1 ratio. but the positive effect is 8 to 1 ratio. With all this it still has some problems that I am addressing with a newer design wheel frame. I had $1,700.00 worth of medical bills to pay after insurance, not to mention some down time which means total losses so I had to put my wheel work to the side. Now I will be finishing 3 of my wheels over the next week and a half. And all is looking very well. IMHO I will video them but there will be covering until the paper work is done, and then the insides will be shown. One of them is a walker only about 10 inches tall and when put down to the ground it is expected to take off. Then I will turn it around and let is go the other direction as well as a mild incline. I do not expect it to go up too steep of a ramp. On the walker I first built didn't fair well but I do believe the design change will correct what the first one could not do.

Sorry for rambling but I am happy to put my magnets down and get to the real wheels again.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2008, 04:50:03 AM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2008, 05:07:46 AM »
AB Hammer - This is why I said "combination" - gravity and magnets. The reason why I show you this picture is: I hope somebody is going to tell me why this wouldn't work.

TinselKoala - That's looking good.

I will say I like your design, but I also see a couple of things that worry me. You are adding the slides which is very good in one direction, but very bad in the other. You will have a forward and a backwards jar. I see no other field manipulation which I am learning is the only way to get magnets to do what you want, and get past the sticky spots.
One of my magnet test wheels that I test manipulation, shocked me when the manipulation shot the inner wheel/magnet a full 1/2 turn and would do it over and over again with only very small stick that you could breath and get past. Wow this tells me that it is time to get some better magnets and build a real wheel with at least 6 of these manipulation around the outer side. I know you would love to see it, but it will have to weight until I get my gravity projects done, and protected. For If I am correct and I have gravity, I will feel free to show my magnet approaches.

Offline Marctwo

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2008, 11:29:43 AM »
@Alan:  You mention protecting your device as if it's just a simple matter of course.  I've been looking into patent filing over the last week or so and I'm quite overwhelmed with the complexity of the process, the time involved and, of course, the costs.

Are there any good guides to patent applications that can help make the whole thing less daunting?

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2008, 01:11:45 PM »
@Marctwo

 If you go the lawyer way it will cost the rip out of you. At this time there is no working wheel, so you have to wonder what possible patent infringement will you be making. Now a patent search is important and how you word your patent is very important. It has to be written in a way that will make it hard on the patent thieves (the little change way) from happening and then after patent pending is in place, you can show the media for exposure. I received this information from the patent office itself, and close dependable friends.

Offline broli

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2008, 02:49:07 PM »
abhammer it's the only thing I dislike about you and probably will never agree with. It's the use of patents, I also don't like how you sometimes try to convince people they should do the same. It corrupts minds and gets people from research mode to greed mode. I do all my research and work for free. If I'm lucky enough to find a runner it'll be free for everyone like it's supposed to. Even if someone else gets the credit for it I don't care as long as it's out free of charge I'll sleep and die happy.

 

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