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Author Topic: Rolling rotating magnet motor idea.  (Read 5904 times)

Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2838
Rolling rotating magnet motor idea.
« on: August 26, 2008, 07:24:56 AM »
Keeping saying that magnet motors can't work, I just got an idea maybe some one could try out - or at least imagine the outcome:

Make an  "infinite" array of many magnets, as in a circle. Let every magnet be square. Let every magnet after one another alter direction of polarity by +45 degrees - NB! Magnetization of 45, 135, 225, and 315 degrees are diagonally on the respective square array magnets. Means that every 8.th magnet have same direction of polarity (regardless of direction of initial polarity).

Now. Let a round piston shaped magnet, magnetized through the diameter have the diameter equal to the half of the distance between every 8 magnets. Place the pistonmagnet tangential to the magnet array so it simply can roll on the magnet array.

The equiberillum (Or what the name is (complicated)), the rolling magnet will soon find out by itself when just putted on the magnet array - and it can be anywhere on the array - not allways in the middle of one of the array magnets..

Now, turn the rolling magnet 45 degrees right at the spot where it initially did find its equiburillun. Feel the oposite rolling force in that magnet (of course you will feel that). Well, the one side is now attracting the magnets in the array, and the oposite side is repelling the magnet array (Naturally). If this rolling magnet is now fixed to a tooth wheel, it will allways be pushed from the back and pulled in the front anywhere on the magnet array.

What will then happen if you release this magnet - when it allways wanna find its equiburillum? Will it maybe start spinning out of controll, or nothing will happen?

Time for discussion

If someone cannot picture this, I will make a drawing tomorrow - if I manage to get home from work...

Vidar

Rolling rotating magnet motor idea.
« on: August 26, 2008, 07:24:56 AM »

babieintown

• Newbie
• Posts: 14
Re: Rolling rotating magnet motor idea.
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2008, 06:14:24 PM »
Hi

While i agree that most of invention here in OU forum is impossible, and i feel it's for hobby more or less.
But from my knowledge and experience, i still strong believe that OU can be achieved in some way.
At least in fusion field.

In magnet, i have limited knowledge on magnetic properties like how does shape effect
on force between magnet, how to calculate magnetic force between magnets that angles each other.
I think that if some one can explain the relations above then we can use mathematics model to predict
the possibility of magnet motor by using specification from magnet supplier.

Personally, though thermodynamics is fluently applied in practice a lot but i think there may be some other circumstance that
it can not apply to or its may be in subset of the bigger rules cover it. I hope we can step to that frontier.

And thanks for your idea on magnet motor, i like it

Br

dieter

• Hero Member
• Posts: 938
Re: Rolling rotating magnet motor idea.
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2008, 07:35:55 PM »
Vidar I'm looking forward to see a picture.

Re: Rolling rotating magnet motor idea.
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2008, 07:35:55 PM »

Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2838
Re: Rolling rotating magnet motor idea.
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2008, 08:28:40 PM »
OK. Here is three figures. Read the text inside them to see what options we have in general. Study the pictures and try to find out what will happen.

Look at fig 2 and 3. It seems there is torque in the round magnet in some direction. But how does the magnet array influence on the round magnet sideways? Will the round magnet be held back by other forces while the torque wants to go the other direction?

Something to take a look at I guess.

Br.

Vidar

Blainiac

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 87
Re: Rolling rotating magnet motor idea.
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2010, 11:17:30 AM »
Did you do any simulations or build of this Vidar?

Re: Rolling rotating magnet motor idea.
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2010, 11:17:30 AM »

Cloxxki

• Hero Member
• Posts: 825
Re: Rolling rotating magnet motor idea.
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2010, 12:33:14 PM »
I like this idea!
Obviously the rollers will need to be mechanically held in sync with the track. I simple axle and cog system will take care of this.
With the way the proposed system is to work, I think a relatively simple build to make for a good proof of concept. Some lego part and square magnets. The roller would need to be 100% the same circumference as the square ones.
Should the 1:1 displacement relationship not work, a larger roller could be used, "slipping" just ove rthe surface at adjusted gearing.
I bet that with maybe 8 square magnets placed on a radius, lack of equilibrium, or presence thereof, could already be found. I've seen good simulators though, likely less work for those proficient with them.

Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2838
Re: Rolling rotating magnet motor idea.
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2010, 01:40:16 PM »

Well the idea was to have a system that all the time forced the round A to rotate (torque) at any position in the halbach track. However, I did later discover that the round magnets are ofcourse forced in the oposite direction of what direction those are forced to roll - the torque. So the net force that is left in this system is pretty much zero. I miscalculated torque (Nm) and the actual force on the rollers surface - the radius of the rollers. So I scaled up the model in the simulation so the rollers was 1m in radius to easier see the counterforces versus torque, then the counterforce was equal to the torque of the rollers.

So, sorry guys. This will not work, and I figured out why.

Vidar

Re: Rolling rotating magnet motor idea.
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2010, 01:40:16 PM »

Cloxxki

• Hero Member
• Posts: 825
Re: Rolling rotating magnet motor idea.
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2010, 02:42:55 PM »
Thanks for the honest update, many just stack their ideas up in the "inventions" cabinet.

Did you explore a roller that turned contrary to the traveled direction? Or rather, traveled contrary to the enduced spin. Gears would easily allow for this. One torque would need to exceed the other.

Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2838
Re: Rolling rotating magnet motor idea.
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2010, 10:09:36 PM »
Thanks for the honest update, many just stack their ideas up in the "A" cabinet.

Did you explore a roller that turned contrary to the traveled direction? Or rather, traveled contrary to the enduced spin. Gears would easily allow for this. One torque would need to exceed the other.
The simulation said that the torque corresponds to the counterforced direction. Let say you have this round magnet in your hand, close to another magnetic pole. Turn it 90 degrees and you will feel that the round magnet is forced to turn back - torque. At the same time, this round magnet is also forced in a direction directly as a result of the 90 degree turned magnet. That particular direction is going the opposite way as the torque in the round magnet wants to go. So these forces cancel eachother out. It is not possible to get one of these forces stronger than the other, because they are acting within the same system where forces equals counterforces. Too bad, but true. I want to use some more energy in making my HHO generator now. That is at least not a physical "impossibility" that is OU, but still limitless of energy

Vidar