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Author Topic: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors  (Read 26573 times)

Offline Xaverius

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2008, 08:51:30 AM »
Well one of the pros I see, are low power magnet motors being used for kinetic sculpture art then becoming perpetual kinetic sculpture art  ;D. This is one of my favorites me being a blacksmith. I am already starting to design what I want to do for my art pieces.

Are you familiar with Finsrud in Norway?

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2008, 08:51:30 AM »

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2008, 06:49:42 PM »
@Xaverius

No I am not related. I am a blacksmith/armourer here is a link to some of my work.

http://www.creationtime.com/hisbsaw.htm

Offline utilitarian

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2008, 07:50:18 PM »
But the real question is what powers the continual magnetic force in a magnet?

Similarly, what powers gravity?  I think "powers" is not the correct word.  There is no power involved.  The force simply is.

For example, you have a rubber band wound tight around a pencil, long ways.  The rubber band is exerting a force on the pencil, and the pencil exerts a force back.  They can do this until the end of time, or until the rubber band snaps or the pencil breaks, and there is nothing powering this process.

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2008, 07:50:18 PM »
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Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2008, 09:16:27 PM »
Similarly, what powers gravity?  I think "powers" is not the correct word.  There is no power involved.  The force simply is.

For example, you have a rubber band wound tight around a pencil, long ways.  The rubber band is exerting a force on the pencil, and the pencil exerts a force back.  They can do this until the end of time, or until the rubber band snaps or the pencil breaks, and there is nothing powering this process.

nothing powering this process except the energy expended to wind the rubber band around the pencil...
the force simply is... wow, and you accuse others of being gullible. lol, look in the mirror.

Offline utilitarian

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2008, 10:54:41 PM »
nothing powering this process except the energy expended to wind the rubber band around the pencil...
the force simply is... wow, and you accuse others of being gullible. lol, look in the mirror.

Go look up some basic physics concepts.  Power is the rate at which work is performed.  The rubber band causes nothing to move, therefore it is powering nothing.

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2008, 10:54:41 PM »
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Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2008, 10:59:14 PM »
Go look up some basic physics concepts.  Power is the rate at which work is performed.  The rubber band causes nothing to move, therefore it is powering nothing.
IF the rubber band was NOT wound by some external input of energy, like your hands... then no work would have been done. however the rubber band did NOT magically appear prewound on the pencil did it? if nothing wound the band on the pencil then no force would be being exerted...
your analogy is weak and perverted, perhaps instead of telling me to look up basic physics concepts you should work on your analogy concepts...
obviously no work is performed according to the strict definition. duh...
a magnet holding a 1 kilo weight is performing no "work", while an electromagnet holding the same weight IS performing work?

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2008, 11:28:29 PM »
Similarly, what powers gravity?

similarly? not really.
when things, caused by gravity, fall/descend/move, then work is being performed by your definition...

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2008, 11:28:29 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2008, 12:03:38 AM »
 Well I went ahead a posted my first magnet wheel since 1974. I call it The Unpredictable Wheel.  It is a non runner but it is kind of interesting. It will run one way and the stop and run the other or it just stops. In the video I bumped it when it looked like it was going to run backwards. I built this wheel to get use to magnets again. And now I am getting better test set up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjEsGZfkCRA

Offline ragnew

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2008, 12:41:13 AM »
Hammer,

I was looking at your You Tube Videos.
I saw this one.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpx6ECQhD8E

You call it a NON worker but it looked pretty good in the video?


Rich

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2008, 12:41:13 AM »
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Offline nwman

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2008, 02:45:48 AM »
I'm not sure if this is why but.... If you notice the arm in the upper right hand corner reaching behind and turning the wheel.

Tim

Offline utilitarian

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2008, 03:45:16 AM »
IF the rubber band was NOT wound by some external input of energy, like your hands... then no work would have been done. however the rubber band did NOT magically appear prewound on the pencil did it? if nothing wound the band on the pencil then no force would be being exerted...
your analogy is weak and perverted, perhaps instead of telling me to look up basic physics concepts you should work on your analogy concepts...
obviously no work is performed according to the strict definition. duh...
a magnet holding a 1 kilo weight is performing no "work", while an electromagnet holding the same weight IS performing work?

Incorrect on both counts.  Your hands performed work stretching the rubber band around the pencil, but as far as the band itself, as soon as the band is around the pencil, it does no work at all after that.  The taut rubber band has some potential energy, and if the pencil were to break, then the rubber band would do some work, but otherwise, no, the rubber band does no work.

Similarly, an electromagnet holding up the weight is not doing any work.  Just like you or me holding a weight still over our heads may seem like work, but based on the scientific definition of work, it is not work.  Just because the human body gets tired doing something, does not mean it is work.

As far as your second post about gravity, I really have no idea what you are talking about.  If a weight sits on a table, it is exerting a force down, but it is not doing work.  If you are talking about falling objects, yes, they do work by resisting air on their way down.  But if you notice, those objects are moving.  The rubber band and pencil in my example are not moving.

I am not trying to bash you, but you really sound like you never even took first year physics in high school.  This is all out of the first few chapters.  Once you get these basic concepts down, we can have an intelligent discussion.

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2008, 03:45:16 AM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2008, 04:27:52 AM »
utilitarian

 You are quite the by the book man. And by the book you are correct, but man wrote the book, so mistakes are always easily possible. So as an inventor I will always look at the mistakes. ;)

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2008, 04:32:37 AM »
Hammer,

I was looking at your You Tube Videos.
I saw this one.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpx6ECQhD8E

You call it a NON worker but it looked pretty good in the video?


Rich

It was being turned by hand so that the effects could be seen. A manual turn on a non-worker are good for seeing problems for possible corrections. I also have other wheels that when you see them, they are not being turned by hand but they had a start spin. I don't show those to keep people from getting to excited for they look like runners in the videos even though they are not.

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2008, 12:54:33 PM »
utilitarian

 You are quite the by the book man. And by the book you are correct, but man wrote the book, so mistakes are always easily possible. So as an inventor I will always look at the mistakes. ;)

my point exactly...
a weight sitting on a table does no work, does the table do "work" by holding up the weight? any person who hasn't been taught to think in such an idiotic manner will say of course.

and utilitarian read my posts a little more careful... maybe when you have some comprehension we can have an intelligent discussion. i said "IF the rubber band was NOT wound by some external input of energy, like your hands... then no work would have been done." like your hands... you said, the band stores potential energy put there by your hands. why are you repeating what i said?
you probably think gravity can't do work too...

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Pros and cons of permanent magnet motors
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2008, 03:19:12 PM »
@WilbyInebriated

 What they need to look at when talking about work, is what is working against us. To say the table isn't doing work is not understanding the struggle that the table has with gravity. Sooner or later the table looses to gravity. But they still say it doesn't do work. Anything under a struggle is fighting against something. So it is plain to see something is happening.

 

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