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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: markh on August 11, 2008, 05:33:28 AM

Title: bessler wheel scissor jack
Post by: markh on August 11, 2008, 05:33:28 AM
Hey everyone.  I posted this on another thread.  P-motion emailed me a couple of days ago about putting it on a different thread, so here it is.

The basic principle is pretty straight forward, at the angle the photo shows, the weight at the left would cause the other weight to extend to the perimeter of the wheel.  When it rotates 90 degrees clockwise, I'm hoping there's a way to have the inner weight lift the outer weight.  and when the weight is at the position 90 counter clockwise of the one shown, hopefully it would extend the weight. 

I know my drawing is kind of crude, but hopefully it is descriptive enough.  I also thought that maybe you could put both weights on one side.  The outer one where it shows, and the inner one at the top of the ridge on the same side.    (of course you'd need to have those in pairs, one on each side.  )  I have also been thinking that in that configuration you could maybe have 8 or 16 of these mounted near the perimeter of the wheel.  Their sole job is to extend on the right side of the wheel, and contract on the left side.     These are obviously just speculations, but I thought maybe someone else would have a take on this. 

peace
mark

Title: Re: bessler wheel scissor jack
Post by: utilitarian on August 11, 2008, 05:50:36 AM
Hey everyone.  I posted this on another thread.  P-motion emailed me a couple of days ago about putting it on a different thread, so here it is.

The basic principle is pretty straight forward, at the angle the photo shows, the weight at the left would cause the other weight to extend to the perimeter of the wheel.  When it rotates 90 degrees clockwise, I'm hoping there's a way to have the inner weight lift the outer weight.  and when the weight is at the position 90 counter clockwise of the one shown, hopefully it would extend the weight. 

Your drawing is quite clear and gets the point across well.  Unfortunately, it cannot work.  The spring cannot both be loose enough to expand on the right side, but be tight enough to contract on the left.  Pick one or the other, and as soon as you do, that is where your wheel stops.
Title: Re: bessler wheel scissor jack
Post by: AB Hammer on August 11, 2008, 08:35:37 PM
Come on guys, I am trying to help you not waste your time. So I did the weight test for you to show you the outcome. The shifting weight is 10 time the weight at the end, and it will not pick it up. But it does neutralize it so you can do it by hand. Each time all it does is balance out with no gain.

 Now it is true I didn't use the exact design but the weight in the middle is pushing on both sides at the same time giving it more. And yeas I do play with scissor jacks so since I already had the parts. What the hay? I find as many negatives with them as positives. 

I also made a 10 second video of it to show you it moving around by hand, and will be more than happy to post it or send it to you in an e-mail.
Title: Re: bessler wheel scissor jack
Post by: markh on August 12, 2008, 02:21:06 AM
Hey AB Hammer

Thanks for posting that.  It's very informative.   I wish I had the time to do the build myself.  I just keep reading that bessler said that a a scissor jack is involved in his wheel.  I have no idea how, but maybe I'll wrap my brain around it someday.  I read somewhere where there are two interpretations for the term for scissorjack (from German to english)  one is a scissor jack, and the other is some sort of device used by architects to make scale pictures.  (it was probably on this site that I read it)  Do you know anything about that by chance?


peace
mark

Title: Re: bessler wheel scissor jack
Post by: AB Hammer on August 12, 2008, 03:01:36 AM
You have to look at the toy page of Bessler's to figure it out. At least that is what Bessler hinted at.
Title: Re: bessler wheel scissor jack
Post by: AB Hammer on August 12, 2008, 06:49:46 PM
Good luck P-motion  ::)

 It has to be reset and making it longer so it will fall will just make it even harder to reset. Each change causes another change to have to be done.
Title: Re: bessler wheel scissor jack
Post by: AB Hammer on August 12, 2008, 07:31:25 PM
P-Motion

 The larger weight is 4 inches from the axle. The smaller weight is 12 inches from the axle. The smaller weight is 1/10 the weight of the larger one. When you add all this, it will seem like a leverage discrepancy but you also have to take in account of the weight of the scissor jack. Then you have to take in account of the leverage properties of the scissor jack itself. In this case you are definitely not going to get something for nothing. 
Title: Re: bessler wheel scissor jack
Post by: markh on August 13, 2008, 07:49:40 AM
Hey Guys

I appreciate all of the comments.  I think I'm just going to have to suck it up and build it, so I can see if it does anything close to what I'm thinking in my head.   I have a few ideas I want to try with a build, but I just haven't pulled the trigger yet.    I honestly am not that good building things, but I think that's really the only way to see what is going on with the wheel. 

peace
mark

Title: Re: bessler wheel scissor jack
Post by: erickdt on August 17, 2008, 07:46:01 PM
AB Hammer,

Perhaps utilizing higher leverage will solve the issue of having to have an extremely heavy "prime mover" weight.

E
Title: Re: bessler wheel scissor jack
Post by: AB Hammer on August 17, 2008, 08:12:57 PM
@erickdt

 Scissor jacks have some very interesting effects and to try to over leverage them you also over leverage any possible advantage. There is a way to use scissor jacks and I will show this off in one of my wheels latter, once I finish my show wheels.
Title: Re: bessler wheel scissor jack
Post by: erickdt on August 18, 2008, 03:29:52 PM
2 x the leverage will reduce the need weight for the "prime mover" by 1/2. No?


(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii203/egustafson2002/Untitled-1.jpg)
Title: Re: bessler wheel scissor jack
Post by: AB Hammer on August 18, 2008, 04:45:28 PM
2 x CF problems. Any weight out will pull out due to CF.