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Author Topic: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it  (Read 9093 times)

Offline kmarinas86

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Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« on: December 17, 2007, 09:01:31 AM »
It seems that most of the designs of Newman motors I have seen have have coil walls that are many times as tall as they are thick.  But the software program I used to see what would be the optimal coil, in terms of getting a high inductance for a short coil of lower mass, were coils whose walls were about 6 parts tall to 5 parts thick (or sometimes 9 parts tall and 8 parts thick).   The Newman machine replica I made (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FNTTyGjs04) had a coil ratio similar to the one considered optimal by the software program I used (http://www.datavoyage.com/coilmaestro/).

For
Inductance L = 0.405 mH or L = 0.404 mH
a = height of coil
r = width of the coil wall
d = wire diameter
O = wire length
W = wire weight

OPTIMAL
N = 114
D0 = 24.0 mm
a = 9.0 mm
r = 8.1 mm

d = 0.8 mm
L = 0.405 mH
O = 11.50 m
W = 51.6 g

R = 0.4 Ohm
--------------------
SUB-OPTIMAL
N = 149
D0 = 22.0 mm
a = 20.0 mm
r = 4.8 mm

d = 0.8 mm
L = 0.404 mH
O = 12.53 m
W = 56.2 g

R = 0.4 Ohm
--------------------
TYPICAL NEWMAN MACHINE FOUND ONLINE
N = 187
D0 = 23.0 mm
a = 40.0 mm
r = 3.0 mm

d = 0.8 mm
L = 0.406 mH
O = 15.27 m
W = 68.5 g

R = 0.5 Ohm
--------------------
TYPICAL NEWMAN MACHINE FOUND ONLINE
N = 222
D0 = 23.0 mm
a = 60.0 mm
r = 2.4 mm

d = 0.8 mm
L = 0.405 mH
O = 17.69 m
W = 79.3 g

R = 0.6 Ohm
--------------------

Now, a major problem with the larger Newman machines is the special commutator you need to even move the thing, because the current is so low.  The alternative, say for a medium size machine or better, would be to maximize the inductance for the coil used.  Now, this would mean a higher wire to magnet ratio.  But it also would mean a magnet with more specific torque.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Energy_Machine_of_Joseph_Newman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Ray0energy

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Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2008, 11:38:47 AM »
 ??? ??? ???

TYPICAL NEWMAN MACHINE FOUND ONLINE
N = 222
D0 = 23.0 mm
a = 60.0 mm
r = 2.4 mm
d = 0.8 mm
L = 0.405 mH
O = 17.69 m
W = 79.3 g
R = 0.6 Ohm


0.6 ohm?????????????
what ar u talking about its 10/20 ohm or more on a typical newman motor coil

Offline Ray0energy

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Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2008, 01:13:39 PM »
stop giving people the impression that u no a lot because u don't u "quote" text  and copy and past.
on your you tube site u delete all comments of people that try to make a debate.
and the most irritant thing is u don't answer but u just go over it wit your long talks of BULLSHIT Sad Huh

pleas stop this sick madness






i am sorry fore the rest of the people of this forum that i have to say this here.
but on his You tube site its not possible if u ask him something that he he don't no he WILL delete the commend.

There is no debate possible wit this gay he even don't no how a transistor works
but he will be the 1e! to put a comment on adder you tube users that made a Newman motor.
but its not really a commend because it really don't add any important info its just BLABLA ??? >:(

1 time i hat to delete more then 5 comment of him because u can't see anymore the real comments of older people
if there was a limit of 10.0000 letters he will use all of it  >:( to just QUOTE his bullshit

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2008, 01:13:39 PM »
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Offline kmarinas86

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    • YouTube - kmarinas86's Channel
Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2008, 05:50:36 AM »
I said:

"It seems that most of the designs of Newman motors I have seen have have coil walls that are many times as tall as they are thick.  But the software program I used to see what would be the optimal coil, in terms of getting a high inductance for a short coil of lower mass, were coils whose walls were about 6 parts tall to 5 parts thick (or sometimes 9 parts tall and 8 parts thick)."

You responded:
??? ??? ???

TYPICAL NEWMAN MACHINE FOUND ONLINE
N = 222
D0 = 23.0 mm
a = 60.0 mm
r = 2.4 mm
d = 0.8 mm
L = 0.405 mH
O = 17.69 m
W = 79.3 g
R = 0.6 Ohm


0.6 ohm?????????????
what ar u talking about its 10/20 ohm or more on a typical newman motor coil

I am sorry. When I said "TYPICAL NEWMAN MACHINE FOUND ONLINE", that was misleading. What I should have really said was that

"a = 60.0 mm
r = 2.4 mm"

Where "a" is the length of the coil and "r" is the thickness of the coil, corresponds to the fact that in many Newman motors, the coil is longer than it is thick.  This post I made last year, in fact, not even a month after I started making these "Newman motors" (which are not actually real Newman motors). Anyway, glad that is over with.

Offline kmarinas86

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    • YouTube - kmarinas86's Channel
Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2008, 05:58:38 AM »
stop giving people the impression that u no a lot because u don't u "quote" text  and copy and past.
on your you tube site u delete all comments of people that try to make a debate.
and the most irritant thing is u don't answer but u just go over it wit your long talks of BULLSHIT Sad Huh

pleas stop this sick madness

You misoverestimated how often I delete other people's comments.  In fact, most of the comments I delete are mine since I later find I have misjudged what the person said, or decided that I could give a  better response.

And please do not refer to giving "thumbs down" to comments as deleting the comments.  They are not the same.  But I must admit that I still acted wrong.  See to it that I do not do this again on these videos.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2008, 05:58:38 AM »
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Offline Michelinho

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  • Posts: 452
Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2008, 10:21:55 PM »
The Newman Motor is a high efficency, high torque and low rpm motor, that is what Joseph Newman came up with. The replications you see on the internet are mostly built much smaller and with many differences from the original design.

To get torque, you have to have a big and heavy magnetic rotor. That needs a big coil as it must cover a big part of the rotor's magnetic field. A big coil will need either high voltage/low current or low voltage/high current to build a strong enough magnetic field to move the big rotor. Newman went with the first as it is more energy efficient as the coil(s) gets cooler than the ambient temperature instead of getting hot from the high current and the utility bills you on current, not voltage use. The commutator you use will tune the motor for whatever need.

The commutator can be of 3 types as Jean Louis Naudin explains on his site: depending on the design the commutator it can make the Newman's device run as a motor, a motor/generator or as a generator. Most of the commutator reproductions you will find on the net are the first type "motor" and people don't see OU or get the unit to self-run. I wonder why?  ???

Check his latest motor, the 400 lb one, it runs at about 60-80 rpm on a 162v input (18 x 9v batteries) and it does recharge the batteries (more or less) with a mechanical commutator. What Newman's doesn't tell is that he is probably stepping up that voltage like on his old 7,000 lb motor that runs on nearly 2 kv after the step up. The big one has 55 miles of magnet wire and the magnetic rotor weight around a thousand pounds.

So to recap, I don't think you will ever see a razor or a drill with a Newman motor but for a lathe or milling it would be perfect. If you want torque, the Newman machine is expensive to build but highly reliable and cheap to run and with low maintenance.

Take care,

Michel

Offline khabe

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  • Posts: 525
Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2008, 11:38:12 AM »
The Newman Motor is a high efficency, high torque and low rpm motor, that is what Joseph Newman came up with. The replications you see on the internet are mostly built much smaller and with many differences from the original design.

Hereby some basises about el. motors,
http://www.stmicroelectronics.com/stonline/products/support/motor/tutorial/motor.swf

regards,
khabe

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2008, 11:38:12 AM »
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Offline seekingknowledge

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  • Posts: 77
Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2008, 12:53:22 PM »

The commutator can be of 3 types as Jean Louis Naudin explains on his site: depending on the design the commutator it can make the Newman's device run as a motor, a motor/generator or as a generator. Most of the commutator reproductions you will find on the net are the first type "motor" and people don't see OU or get the unit to self-run. I wonder why?  ???


Ive seen a a couple of diagrams on the net of his commutators (just google it lol) but not sure which one is generator commutator if either , your commutator is simler , one had many off on segments and another had the same but with shorting segments, does your commutator have shorting segments?

Is your commutator for motor/generator or just generator? i dont really care for the motor commutator im more interested in electrical output so mainly the generator commutator do you know for sure which one this is? it would be a huge help, and very nice work by the way i envy.

Offline Michelinho

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  • Posts: 452
Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2008, 08:27:53 PM »
The commutator can be of 3 kinds:

Motor commutator: Firing once every turn. The tape on the shaft is a perfect exemple, the reed switch also. Little recovery of bemf is available.

Motor commutator 2: Firing once every half turn with polarity inversion for next half turn. The first Jean Louis Naudin commutator. More torque and slightly higher rotational speed. Little recovery of bemf is available.

Motor/generator: Firing once every half turn with polarity inversion for next half turn (multi-segments commutator) . The last of Jean Louis Naudin commutator. More torque and slightly higher rotational speed. High recovery of bemf is available caused by the rapid on/off loading and unloading of the coil. The Joseph Newman commutator is of this design with a short section to permit the use of higher input voltage JLN did not test with the "short" segments. The firing sequence is: Firing-Blank-Short-blank-Firing. It is the one I use in my 2nd prototype.* (The second blank section is not on Newman's paper but is obvious to prevent an input short circuit when the contacts are a little misaligned and it also permits a larger brush.)

Generator commutator: similar to the Motor commutator but in this case the motor is turned by an external force to produce ac voltage. One phase output only.

The firing sequence of my last commutator: "Firing-Blank-Short-blank-Firing" works in this way: Ramp up of the coil-- on blank the coil discharge (The coil is in this case acts like a capacitor)--On short, the coils stabilize to a neutral potential--On blanks it gets ready to get ramped up again eliminating the possibility of a short of the "firing" and "short" contacts. A bonus with this coil is that it permits the use of very high voltage to drive the coil ( in excess of 300 volts)

Hope this helps,

Michel


The picture is the test of a commutator "Motor/generator commutator" as used by Jean Louis Naudin in his last tests of the motor showing "OU".

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2008, 08:27:53 PM »
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Offline Michelinho

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Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2008, 08:29:14 PM »
Top view of the "Motor/generator commutator".

Offline Michelinho

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Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2008, 08:32:18 PM »
The Newman commutator as Newman's patent.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Why the Newman torque is low and what to do about it
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2008, 08:32:18 PM »
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