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Author Topic: New member: A Newman motor replicator.  (Read 30299 times)

Michelinho

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New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« on: August 03, 2008, 12:16:27 AM »
Hi everyone,

I finaly decided to join this forum. Why? This look like the best one on Newman Motors replication and testing. I work on these radient energy devices with my son-in-law (water cracking and Bedini motors are what he thinkers with) who handles the electronic side and the testing of our replications. I am a retired diesel mechanic who loves to build unusual things. Earth batteries are in my next experimental projects.

I did my first replication last year and my second one is just done and getting ready to build the axial flux alternator to be coupled to it. I was impressed with the first prototype as it runs at about 6,000 rpm on 18 volts and .025 amp. We ran it on the scope and with a few tweaks, we got near 7,000 rpm out of it. Not much torque but plenty of speed with very nice bemf.

The second replication is much better on torque as the magnets are much stronger on a larger rotor (8 1"x1" cylindrical neodynium N50 on a 9" rotor) and the 2 coils use 41,000 feet bifilar awg 31 with a 5.68 kohm resistance). Turning by hand produces peaks in excess of 180vac so the bemf are violent and will saturate a spark gap easy if no caps is used. With a battery bank producing 108 volts, the motor uses .007 amp and run at about 60 rpm with nice torque. I just bought a power supply that has a range from 0-350v to make it easier to match power supply to coil voltage needs to obtain the 200 rpm needed for the alternator.  I use the Newman commutator with 24 sectors, 12 + and 12 -. This should go to the lab soon for testing.

So, count me in for helping around,

Michel


Michelinho

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Re: New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2008, 12:18:25 AM »
The other side of the motor.

b0rg13

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Re: New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2008, 12:45:30 AM »
that looks really good, welcome to the forum. :D

Michelinho

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Re: New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2008, 01:56:12 AM »
My first prototype.

NerzhDishual

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Re: New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2008, 03:02:30 AM »

Hi Michelinho,

Welcome to the club.

Very very nice and impressive motor.
Did you see any 'OU' behavior?
You should be able to charge some batt. or
to not deplete the running bat or to get it self running
(unless for a while). Should you not?

Mine is very cheap and shabby.
It works anyway (No 'OU' noticed, though  :)).
I have something more serious in hand.


(http://freenrg.info/Newman_Type_Machine_Rep/MyNm1_small.jpg)

BTW: no I did not build it after having drunk the bottle!  ;D :P

Best

Michelinho

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Re: New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2008, 07:12:31 AM »

Thanks,
The motor runs well as I am still in the initial phase of the whole project. I still need to increase it's speed to a minimum of 200 rpm for the axial flux alternator. The only way to achieve it is by raising the input voltage to about 230/250 volts.
The variable power supply will allow me to do that and have it test under the oscilloscope. The recovery circuit will be added after the initial tests and retested for comparison. Then it will be time to design the final power supply probably from a cheap 12v/220-240vac inverter as a starting unit then with a 1:1 transformer, rectifying bridge and the rest neatly enclosed in a box with external connectors.
The electronic section is handled by my son-in-law as my knowledge is limited partly because I never had a need for it. I am not looking for OU but wont spit at it if occurs.
The Newman Motor secret is mainly in the commutator and it is also the first thing most replicators sidestep for simplicity reason with reed switches and relays. Its other secrets are the larger the better (for both coil(s) and heavy magnetic rotor(s)) and high voltage to supply the large coil(s).
Hat's off Joseph Newman.

Michel

NerzhDishual

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Re: New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2008, 07:18:17 PM »

@Michelinho,

Just an half baked idea:
With such elaborated machines you should be able to close the loop.

Why not connect your second motor to you first motor.
This first motor could, for example, charge a capacitor and
you should be  able to close the loop after having
"grid-fed" your first motor for a short while.

Jan Louis Naudin was able to get his Newman motor
self ruining during 5 minutes. http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/nwjlself.htm
You have 2 advanced Newman's motors so you should be able
to perform better. That is all I wish you.

Best

Michelinho

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Re: New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2008, 08:24:46 PM »
Hi NerzhDishual,

I have already contacted Jean Louis Naudin about my first contraption as it showed an unusual effect causing it to accelerate to 6,000 rpm without a close loop in the motor. The ground was connected to one side of the coil and the positive from my power supply to the main shaft, the motor with a small initial push started accelerating. I froze the design until we got it on the scope and analyze the results, from there with a few tweaks we got another 1,000 rpm on top of it. I sent him a video of the effect and he could not hint me on why it was acting that way but we found out not long after.
As closing the loop with the initial motor, it is not a good idea because the current version of the motor can do it alone with this commutator and I am building this unit for continuous use so the simpler the better. My 1st law for the project is "Keep it simple" and the second "Can be fixed with pliers and wire". The electronic components will be optional, not mandatory for every day use.
The V2.0 of the Newman Motor has enormous BEMF and that I tested crudely with wet fingers on the coil's connectors. Turned by hand at about 100 rpm, I can hardly hold them there as it feels like the old 15kv ignition coil. When energized with the battery pack, I just can't hold them on as my arm is jerked off from reflex.
The axial flux alternator that I am designing will have 3 magnet rotors and 2 stators for energy production and possibly a high voltage subsection just to energize the motor but that is still in a planning state. It is of the usual air core design as used in current DIY windmills. One thing I hope to do is couple their magnetic fields to gain efficiency but that might be tough to accomplish as the resultant magnetic ball will be hard to visualize even with our Gauss meter.
It's far from done, many hurdles ahead still.

Take care,

Michel




P.S.: The image show the V1.0 Newman Motor in generator mode turned by hand, the signal is unusual and pointed us to the solution.
***The time stamp is not right on the picture, the clock function was not set on the camera.***

NerzhDishual

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Re: New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2008, 12:47:45 AM »

@Michelinho,

Obviously, your are far more advanced that me in all these kind of Newman's motor matters.

I wish I could be able to build a "Little someting" that would "'merely" self run...

I'm a  follower of the Shadoks's wisdom that asserts:
"The more it fails, the more chance of success".
Private Joke  ;D

Best

Michelinho

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Re: New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2008, 05:17:25 AM »

Hi NerzhDishual,

Quote
Obviously, your are far more advanced that me in all these kind of Newman's motor matters.

My understanding of the Newman Motor comes from hundreds of videos (thanks Ray0energy) , forum browsing, reading everything available for the last year and many brainstorming sessions with my son-in-law. Still it has many more deep concept secrets to uncover.

I have a box full of paper with ideas and sketches filling all sides.  ::)

Ex: for the multi-segment commutator, a few hours of research, a month of sketches and a few hours to put it together. When you get the idea of how something work and you can visualize it in your head, the execution is easy. Visualizing a multi-segment commutator, specially the Newman's one is not apparent. His patent description of the commutator is good but it doesn't tell all, that part I am proud to say I decoded it but the final merit belongs to Joseph Newman who might not be with us for long as he is now acting like Mayer before his final departure. Great guy fighting a rotten system.

Quote
I wish I could be able to build a "Little someting" that would "'merely" self run...

Don't ever feel sorry for yourself about not getting OU or a self runner because very few have. It is the cherry on the cake but certainly not as filling as the cake. Trying has a lot more merits IMHO. Always have a paper and pencil handy, inspiration and creativity is not something you command. I designed my V2 Newman Motor in bed loaded on painkillers (2 herniated discs)2 days after coming home from the hospital.

Take care,

Michel

Careica

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Re: New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2008, 04:50:53 PM »
Hi everyone,

I finaly decided to join this forum. Why? This look like the best one on Newman Motors replication and testing. I work on these radient energy devices with my son-in-law (water cracking and Bedini motors are what he thinkers with) who handles the electronic side and the testing of our replications. I am a retired diesel mechanic who loves to build unusual things. Earth batteries are in my next experimental projects.

I did my first replication last year and my second one is just done and getting ready to build the axial flux alternator to be coupled to it. I was impressed with the first prototype as it runs at about 6,000 rpm on 18 volts and .025 amp. We ran it on the scope and with a few tweaks, we got near 7,000 rpm out of it. Not much torque but plenty of speed with very nice bemf.

The second replication is much better on torque as the magnets are much stronger on a larger rotor (8 1"x1" cylindrical neodynium N50 on a 9" rotor) and the 2 coils use 41,000 feet bifilar awg 31 with a 5.68 kohm resistance). Turning by hand produces peaks in excess of 180vac so the bemf are violent and will saturate a spark gap easy if no caps is used. With a battery bank producing 108 volts, the motor uses .007 amp and run at about 60 rpm with nice torque. I just bought a power supply that has a range from 0-350v to make it easier to match power supply to coil voltage needs to obtain the 200 rpm needed for the alternator.  I use the Newman commutator with 24 sectors, 12 + and 12 -. This should go to the lab soon for testing.

So, count me in for helping around,

Michel



DAMIT THAT IS BEST MOTOR I HAVE SAW EVER! I have seen many replications but this looking best! I will definetly do my replication like yours. Thank you much! Hope you get your motor run well. And you use same wire gauge as like I ordered (32AWG) Nice one!

khabe

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Re: New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2008, 05:35:04 PM »
Michelinho,
Just because my professional interest - what kind of those playwood setups did  "accelerate to 6,000 rpm without a close loop in the motor" ?
*** Please precise appr. rotor dimensions *** and ***how many turns your "coil" has *** , *** what was used voltage ***
Perhaps we can see this well spinned rotor separately?
Kind regards,
khabe

Michelinho

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Re: New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2008, 08:47:59 PM »

Hi khabe,

Quote
Just because my professional interest - what kind of those playwood setups did  "accelerate to 6,000 rpm without a close loop in the motor" ?

The V1 Newman motor I did had this setup:
Motor tested: Joseph Newman
2 coils oval shaped of 2500 tr of awg 32 (non bifilar)
Resistance of the coils: 294 ohms each
2 x 3"round Alnico 5 magnets mounted on a ferrite coupler.
0.25" shaft on ball bearings
Input voltage of 18.7 volts at .025 amp. (Also 2 x 9volts batteries in serie or 1 x 9v would also work fine)

The 2 coils were mounted very close together with the shaft going through the center. I was testing different commutator models and at one time, I left the power supply on while changing one I finished testing. While preparing a different commutator I turned the shaft to try to visualize the firing point and the motor started turning with the - connected to one end of a coil and the + was on the axle like for a tape commutator. The motor took about 30 minutes to go from 300 rpm to about 4,000 to 5,000 rpm. It took about an hour more to reach around 6,000 rpm. The phenomena that produced the acceleration was that a coil strand was very close to the shaft and the bemf pierced the insulation and was arcing on the shaft closing the loop and acting like a commutator with a dirty signal. That promots more and stronger bemf and cause the motor to amplify the effect.

That is why it was reproducible with a small contact on one brush being a small length of awg 32 wire with a contact enhancer (stabilant 22a). I have a video (8 meg) showing the effect that Jean Louis Naudin reviewed but I won't post it on YouTube, if someone wants to have a look, just supply me with a place to send. I didn't know at the time what was causing this enigma. I packed the motor, sent it to my son-in-law that tested the unit for a whole week on the scope and with a few of his brilliant ideas he got another 1,000 just changing the brush to a tiny size and a little bug juice (Stab22a). Tiny dirty contacts arc and act like a pulsed supply.

Thanks Careica. I am lucky to have the funds and tools available for my little project (I still need a lathe  ;D ). I have a lifetime amount of junk and all the time in the world to play with these contraptions.

Take care,

Michel

P.S.: The plywood is Birch Russian made plywood, it is affordable and extremely well made with no air bubles in layers and the layer count is higher making it stiff even in 1/4" thickness. Every piece of wood used is sanded and coated with Varathane Crystal water based Diamond finish (dries in 30 min). Easier to clean and does the wood waterproofing.

khabe

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Re: New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2008, 09:56:23 PM »
Thank you very much for meticulous overview,
What is this you used to measure RPM?
My main interest was how you can get so high RPM when coil has avesome number of turns - awg 32 - its 0.2 mm,   0.032 mm2 of area ... 538 ohm/km.
I use this size wire very often ... but only when stranded 24...240...400 strands and lenght for wire per "coil" seldom exceed 12m .... but not about my motors we are speaking -
- unbelievable kV of yours - 6000 RPM/ 18.7V - means that kV=321 when 2500 turns of 0.2mm wire ???  Shorts via shaft could explane something but not all ...
Obviously magnetic flux is very weak - does not go deep through windings, why not to use Neodymium magnets - all possible shapes an sizes available?
Design of rotor still unclear    -   3" magnets have very serious weight, it must to be very well balanced ... but all mounted on the plywood disc ???  and 0.25" shaft !!!
Thats because my serious concern about your own security as well as  life and health all attendees in test room - I hope you have helmets for all crew included witnesses.
Best wishes,
khabe
 ::)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 10:57:31 PM by khabe »

Careica

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Re: New member: A Newman motor replicator.
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2008, 08:19:01 AM »
Thank you very much for meticulous overview,
What is this you used to measure RPM?
My main interest was how you can get so high RPM when coil has avesome number of turns - awg 32 - its 0.2 mm,   0.032 mm2 of area ... 538 ohm/km.
I use this size wire very often ... but only when stranded 24...240...400 strands and lenght for wire per "coil" seldom exceed 12m .... but not about my motors we are speaking -
- unbelievable kV of yours - 6000 RPM/ 18.7V - means that kV=321 when 2500 turns of 0.2mm wire ???  Shorts via shaft could explane something but not all ...
Obviously magnetic flux is very weak - does not go deep through windings, why not to use Neodymium magnets - all possible shapes an sizes available?
Design of rotor still unclear    -   3" magnets have very serious weight, it must to be very well balanced ... but all mounted on the plywood disc ???  and 0.25" shaft !!!
Thats because my serious concern about your own security as well as  life and health all attendees in test room - I hope you have helmets for all crew included witnesses.
Best wishes,
khabe
 ::)


Well, I ordered my 0,2mm 1kg bobin weeks ago, still not comming  :D But, what I have count, that from 1g of coil I get 3,6meters coil length. Because, site say that in that bobin is 3,6kilometes of coil. I have also couted, that 360 meters of coil give me 197 Ohms. First time, I tought to have 250 Ohms coil BUT I should use as many kilograms coil as possible, to get even better results. So I think to wind first 250 Ohms, try it whit 12V 7Ah Lead-Acid Battery, which should be best voltage when 250 Ohms, then I will double amount of coil and get 500Ohms and doulbe voltages to, put 2x 12V 7Ah L-A Batteries in series = 24V etc. And ofcorse, if I will get that OU, which make batteries recharge themself it could be good.