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Author Topic: Mysterious Resonant Circuit  (Read 91330 times)

EMdevices

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Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« on: July 25, 2008, 04:04:51 AM »
A MYSTERIOUS RESONANT CIRCUIT

by EMdevices,  July 23, 2008


   By accident I discovered a very interesting resonating circuit.  All it took was the "small" mistake of reversing the polarity on the transistor trigger coil as I was trying to reconfigure my trusted old Blocking oscillator circuit.

I have explored this circuit some more and found out how to control the resonant frequency, and why it resonates so high.  It seems the breadboard internal capacitance is playing a part, and so I added more capacitance on a spare winding to control the frequency. 

Here's a few pictures and the scope shots:

Figure 1
Image of my breadboard circuit.  Very simple, some of you have seen it before in another thread.

Figure 2
Schematic of the circuit.  All windings are on the toroid core, obviously. Not sure what the capacitor values are.

Figure 3
This is the voltage waveform at the Collector of the NPN.   Notice something strange, which I never seen before.  Notice that the voltage is actually NEGATIVE when the NPN is "triggered" on   (you'll realize this from next figure) Frequency is about 20 MHz.

Figure 4
This is the Base voltage.  Notice the shape of the waveform is similar to the collector but inverted.  This is the mistake I made, but now it seems fortunate I made it. 

Figure 5
This is the output across the 150 ohms resistor.  It heats up pretty fast.   Transistor is cool on the other hand.  These tiny Radio Shack transistors have never controled so much power without frying before.  Waveform is almost sinusoidal but not quite. Different values of capacitance up top, will change it a bit so it's almost sinusoidal.  The output power is almost 1 watt if one does a careful integration of this waveform.

Figure 6
I got the idea to scope the battery to see if there is anything unusual.  WOW !!!!   What the heck?   Now I don't trust my AMPERAGE measurements I did earlier, where it seemed I was drawing so little current  (40 mili Amps or less from the 8.5 Volt battery, so not even 0.4 watts as input, which would give OU performance to this circuit by a wide margin)  I need to work on isolating and filtering the power supply so I can have an accurate current measurement, so I'm not claiming OverUnity performance, just yet, so everybody just relax....

Figure 7
Another image of the breadboard from the other side.

EM
« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 04:35:51 AM by EMdevices »

pauldude000

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Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2008, 10:05:14 AM »
;D

Interesting

Paul Andrulis

EMdevices

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Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2008, 02:17:00 PM »
Ladies and Gentilemen,

I now firmly claim  OVERUNITY,  and wish to enter this circuit for the OVERUNITY PRIZE at this website  !!!


I've found an excellent way to smooth battery RF voltage fluctuations to where they are below 0.4 volts,  and the following modified circuit illustrates the modification.    (series L + C, when tuned have inpedance = 0 )

Also, I now have an almost perfect sinewave at the output, of 17.5 Volts Amplitude across the 150 ohm load resistor.

Here's the power calculations:

POWER IN  =  ( 8.2 Volts DC )  x  ( 0.1 Amp DC) = 0.82 watts

POWER OUT = ( 17.5 Volts AC) ^2 / ( 150 ohms)  / 2 = 1.02 watts

EXCESS POWER =  (1.02 - 0.82) / 0.82 = 0.24 = 24 % extra energy

COP = 1.02 / 0.82 = 1.24



At last !!!!!!!

EM

P.S.  I just sent a PM to Stefan to alert him.   The game is on, yepeeeeee !!!!,  I just hope 24 % extra energy is enough of a margin to make such a claim and have it varified.  I'll try to determine the exact capacitor values later tonight, and I'll post the exact waveforms as well.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 02:42:02 PM by EMdevices »

fritz

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Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2008, 03:08:58 PM »
a) how do you measure input current ?
b) whats mysterious about an oscillator with inductive coupled load and lc tank ?
rgds. !!!???!!!

EMdevices

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Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2008, 03:16:23 PM »
a) how do you measure input current ?
b) whats mysterious about an oscillator with inductive coupled load and lc tank ?
rgds. !!!???!!!

a)   I measure the current with an ampmeter in series with the battery.   Reading is 0.1 amps  (Voltage measured across the battery is 8.2 volts,  both are DC measurements)

b)  The mystery comes about due to the polarity of the windings.  Look for the black dot on the coils, it tells which terminals have the same polarity when the flux is changing through the core.   In normal oscillators (like Armstrong, Blocking, etc..),  the trigger winding should be reversed from what I show, so that when the Base is (+) and current flows, the Collector can pump the resonant tank.  Also, notice the collector voltage waveform, notice it's  NEGATIVE when the NPN is on,  I sure haven't seen that before and I'm not too sure what the transistor is doing.  I'm sure it's internal parasitic capacitance playes a part.  Maybe even negative resistance is at work here, not too sure at this point.

Sincerely,

EM

P.S.   broli,  I see your posting below,  I plan on doing a loop back tonight, but I need to think it through make sure the voltage doesn't increase and burn things out.  In my mind that would be the ultimate proof of overunity.   I have not done any margin of error calculations yet.

broli

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Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2008, 03:20:45 PM »
Cool nice going. Did you take the margin of error into account? Also since you claim OU can you not add a circuit that sends the power back?

Bruce_TPU

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Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2008, 03:35:56 PM »
Hi EM,

Good job.


But...lol... I would like to add, that I discovered some time ago, that using your blocking oscillator for the self  running micro TPU, I could get it to run much longer and much better (brighter), if I had the transistor reversed, if you recall.   ;D

Many claimed it could not possibly run the way I had it, but of course it did.  And for a very long time, if I recall.  LOL  No one paid much mind to it.  I found it facinating. 

See the following:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3599.msg60203.html#msg60203
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3599.msg60208.html#msg60208
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3599.msg60261.html#msg60261

And many more posts.

Cheers,

Bruce


poynt99

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Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2008, 03:36:53 PM »
what is your voltage amplitude across the 150 Ohm resistor:

17.5V (p-p), (p), or (rms) ?

fritz

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Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2008, 03:49:42 PM »
hmmm, the fact that the transistor doesn't heats up means
only that the class c osc/amp has a useful operating point
/driving impedance.

Maybe this issue (transistor not heating up but load heating up)
was so often repeated over and over in the Stiffler threads that
it somehow made the way to kind of truth. for whatever reason.

If you have a voltage source and a load - the stuff with the higher
impedance gets hot.
If you have kind of transformer/complex load line between source
and load - you have the same in respect to the transformation ration.
The first transistor radios had every amp stage coupled by transformers
for optimum gain/matching (copper was cheap these days and they
used it from their tube setups.
rgds.

Peterae

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Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2008, 03:54:08 PM »
Can i ask why there is no smoke coming from your 1/4 watt load resister if it is indeed dissipating 1.02 watts

Peter

EMdevices

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Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2008, 03:55:03 PM »
I remember Bruce,  you had switched a transistor around and it ran, LOL,   maybe we should purposefully change things around, we might never know what we're about to discover.

poynt99,   the 17.5 volts is the amplitude, so the voltage swings up to +17.5 volts then down to -17.5 volts,   that's why I devide by 2, in my power output calculation.

Peterae,   the output resistor gets hot within about 3 seconds, hot enough that I can't touch it.   Obviously I disconect the battery real quick after I take my scope shots and freez the image on the scope.

EM

fritz

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Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2008, 04:03:23 PM »
b)  The mystery comes about due to the polarity of the windings.  Look for the black dot on the coils, it tells which terminals have the same polarity when the flux is changing through the core.   In normal oscillators (like Armstrong, Blocking, etc..),  the trigger winding should be reversed from what I show, so that when the Base is (+) and current flows, the Collector can pump the resonant tank.  Also, notice the collector voltage waveform, notice it's  NEGATIVE when the NPN is on,  I sure haven't seen that before and I'm not too sure what the transistor is doing.  I'm sure it's internal parasitic capacitance playes a part.  Maybe even negative resistance is at work here, not too sure at this point.


Because of the frequency and the scope shots - I wouldn't use the terms "on" and
"off". There is even e big phase shift between base and emitter.
And what I see from the battery scope trace makes me no wonder that
the thing works with neg. ucoll.

z.monkey

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Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »
Howdy EMDevices,

Excellent Work.  I kind of jealous actually.  I am sure there are many ways to tap ZPE, and in the coming months and years there will be many more.  Your blocking oscillator is a catalyst.  This one breakthrough will hopefully cause a cascade effect and the hundredth monkey effect will kick in and we will start seeing breakthroughs all over the place.

Again, Excellent Work!

Blessed Be Brothers...

EMdevices

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Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2008, 04:08:18 PM »
guys,  I'm not going to answer anymore questions for right now untill I post the latest scope shots,  tonight when I get home.

the new waveforms that go along with my OU claim are very smooth and sinusoidal, compared to what I posted above in the first post. The battery RF is now effectively suppressed as well, like I mentioned already.  Just be patient.   I though it through quite a bit before I dared to post such a bold claim this morning, so this is for real, I'm honest, and I hope I did not leave something out that is basic and embarassing.   Let's hope not.

EM

P.S.  Just as a side note,  as I was experimenting last evening, trying to supress the RF on the battery,  I noticed that shunt capacitors across the battery did not effectively short the RF, and instead caused a weird chaotic wavforms, and made the core "sing", meaning it made audible sounds, these sounds also can be produced when I vary other parameters.    Then I tried a small toroid inductor in series with the battery to block the RF, since the inductor has a high impedance at high frequency  (Z = jwL), but I noticed something very odd.  the waveform on the scope started to modulate in frequency,  I was getting FM modulation from 20 kHz up to 50 MHz and back down, then back up, very strange, I have never seen that behavior before.   It was also very sensitive to the touch of my hand.   Anyway, lot's to explore with this circuit.

innovation_station

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Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2008, 04:37:00 PM »
 8)

@EMDEVICES

GREAT WORK !!!   

I  also claim overunity  ;D well lets call it unity  :)

how ever my unit is much diffrent  ;)

and i will be up dateing my thred today

i have come up with a number of ways it can be wired  ;D ;D

agin good stuff congrats emd!!

ist