Author Topic: Mysterious Resonant Circuit (Read 91674 times)

Peterae · « **Reply #105 on:** July 29, 2008, 11:22:26 PM »

Yes the core was bought in the UK in Maplin
N87AB HEM3010 31.8 22.75 18.5 88 146

see web page
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=32792&doy=29m7

Peter

aleks · « **Reply #106 on:** July 29, 2008, 11:22:26 PM »

Quote from: gyulasun on July 29, 2008, 11:00:47 PM

your output power across the 149.3 Ohm load is (16.72 x 16.72) / 149.3 = 1.8724W (I took 16.72 by dividing your peak to peak voltage of 47V by 2.82 to get its true RMS value, your scope give a bit better value for this as 17.55V)

Note the RMS figure is worse - 15.55V, but this still gives COP>1. I wonder about connected battery plot whose PK-PK is 1.72V. If it's true, the COP is probably close to 10 here.

Peterae · « **Reply #107 on:** July 29, 2008, 11:28:08 PM »

Hi EM
Great find, all respect to you, i am mearly copying your work

Thanks
Peter

gyulasun · « **Reply #108 on:** July 29, 2008, 11:28:55 PM »

Quote from: aleks on July 29, 2008, 11:22:26 PM

Note the RMS figure is worse - 15.55V, but this still gives COP>1. I wonder about connected battery plot whose PK-PK is 1.72V. If it's true, the COP is probably close to 10 here.

Hi Aleks,

I understand that in case Peter's present AC voltage drop of 1.72 Vpp is shunted and then it can add to the useful output this it is still far from a COP of 8-10. How do you mean this I wonder?

Thanks, Gyula

Peter, thanks for the toriod core data!

Hoppy · « **Reply #109 on:** July 30, 2008, 12:19:29 AM »

Quote from: gyulasun on July 29, 2008, 11:00:47 PM

Peter,

Your measurements give also a COP of about 1.25 so CONGRATULATIONS to you too!!!

your input power is 12.6V x 0.118A = 1.4868W

your output power across the 149.3 Ohm load is (16.72 x 16.72) / 149.3 = 1.8724W (I took 16.72 by dividing your peak to peak voltage of 47V by 2.82 to get its true RMS value, your scope give a bit better value for this as 17.55V)

your COP is 1.8724 / 1.4868 = 1.25

Of course you need further "cleaning" across the battery like EMdevices just showed on his modified schematics.

Also, try to connect the battery lead to members of your battery bank lower in voltage to be able to reduce supply voltage to find 'sweeter working point' .

rgds, Gyula

Just a reminder that the RMS shortcut Vpk x 0.707 can only be applied to a pure sinewave.

Hoppy

gyulasun · « **Reply #110 on:** July 30, 2008, 12:25:59 AM »

Yes, Hoppy that is correct, my calculations are a quick evaluations to see the COP which seem higher than one.
And all such results should be treated with suspition till looping back the output is a success...

rgds, Gyula

xee · « **Reply #111 on:** July 30, 2008, 01:15:26 AM »

@ Peterae
Very nicely built replication. Would you please list the number of turns in each of your transformer windings?

duff · « **Reply #112 on:** July 30, 2008, 05:23:15 AM »

@EM

Please clairify the polarity of the battery in your latest schematic. The schematic symbol indicates one polarity while your text indicates the opposite.

(http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/626/puzlecircuitschmod20080um6.jpg)

Also, would you please give us a breakdown of the turns you've used in the windings. We can assume that you used the same as in the micro tpu thread but we'd be guessing and it difficult looking at the picture to know EXACTLY what you have done.

If you know the core characteristics that would also be helpful.

Thanks,

-Duff

hartiberlin · « **Reply #113 on:** July 30, 2008, 05:30:19 AM »

Hi Peterae,
well done.

But I don?t see, that you measured the input current into your circuit on a shunt resistor ?

Please use a LC lowpassfilter at the battery to cut off all hash from the circuit.

I guess EMdevices 2nd shortout LC bandpass is not really neccessary.
2 LC lowpassfilter would have done it too.
The magic is probably in the 4 coil?s setup on the core.

EMdevices, did the device make any vibration or sound
and did it change, when you held the windings tighter together
with your hands ?
Maybe there is a mechanical interaction ?

hartiberlin · « **Reply #114 on:** July 30, 2008, 05:44:20 AM »

Hi Peterae and EM,
maybe you can also try to
substitute your 150 Ohm outputresistor
with using just an Avramenko plug with 2 x 1N4148 diodes
directly at the scopeshot 3 point as the output.

So use this one wire output to charge
up a big capacitor and then have a load
resistor across only this cap.

This way you could probably further reduce your
input current from the battery.

Would be interesting to try.

Many thanks.

Regards,.Stefan.

Peterae · « **Reply #115 on:** July 30, 2008, 11:56:17 AM »

Here's some construction data on the coil.

I have used 13 turns of 0.6mm Single stranded wire tech is at this address
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=6187&doy=30m7

I first laid the White-Yellow-Red wires side by side while winding.

Peter

aleks · « **Reply #116 on:** July 30, 2008, 02:00:06 PM »

Quote from: gyulasun on July 29, 2008, 11:28:55 PM

Hi Aleks,
I understand that in case Peter's present AC voltage drop of 1.72 Vpp is shunted and then it can add to the useful output this it is still far from a COP of 8-10. How do you mean this I wonder?

Well, when EMdevices measured across connected battery, of course meter shunts it as well, but the reading is still 6V DC (was before double LC filter installed - around 30Vpp AC). Peterae's current unfiltered reading is 1.72Vpp AC (compare it to 30Vpp). I doubt Peterae's meter is wrong, so it must be draw that is really that low. In that case it means COP is way above 1.0. I do not see a problem with my logic, but there can be some problem with measurements? But how it's possible to make a measurement mistake in such a simple circuit? I can only think about amerage which is not 118mA, but around 1A.

BTW, "overunity battery chargers" may also obviously have a much lower voltage reading over connected battery than when measured short-circuited.

aleks · « **Reply #117 on:** July 30, 2008, 02:03:35 PM »

Quote from: Hoppy on July 30, 2008, 12:19:29 AM

Just a reminder that the RMS shortcut Vpk x 0.707 can only be applied to a pure sinewave.

Yes, of course, and in fact there is no need to make speculation as Peterae gave exact cycle RMS values.

Peterae · « **Reply #118 on:** July 30, 2008, 02:17:31 PM »

Hi aleks

The results are certainly hard to swallow, i will feel happier when i have a smooth dc across the battery and i have new measurements, i think EM is ahead of me here, i work 6 days a week and have quiet busy evenings so get very little time, but theres no rush to get this right, I certainly am not in a hurry to close the loop right now as i would hate to take any glory away from it's rightfull owner EM.

Good work EM on smoothing that noise out.

I think when closing the loop, the output should be tried with the noise as well as without, just incase the noise is causing the OU effect to manifest, afterall if the loop is closed who cares if there is noise or not.

Peter

Mannix · « **Reply #119 on:** July 30, 2008, 03:17:05 PM »

This is a great thread!

Blocking oscillators are so much fun and possibly the key to this.
There exists the possibility that there is a spin going on here

My trouble is that I dont trust digital measurements on ac signals other than mains frequency.

they only way is to build it, get back to dc and see for oneself

Great work guys...easy instructions.. and low parts count..
"no mass electronics here, just the knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other"

Lindsay

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Author Topic: Mysterious Resonant Circuit (Read 91674 times)

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