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Author Topic: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE  (Read 107487 times)

Offline TheOne

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #75 on: July 31, 2008, 06:31:17 PM »
The WAI (warm air intake) is a good mod, I completely forget about it, I will try it, I just need to find a flexible tube that sucks the air from the top of the motor where the normal air does not flow like near to the sparkplug, The copper idea is good but you can get more hot air by getting the air directly from the engine bay.

Hopefully that will help a little bit

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #75 on: July 31, 2008, 06:31:17 PM »

Offline Zolar1

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #76 on: July 31, 2008, 08:37:51 PM »
You could always try drilling a lot of 1.75 inch holes in your air box before the air filter.

Offline z.monkey

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #77 on: July 31, 2008, 08:58:05 PM »
Howdy Y'all,

Back in the 80's we would turn the lid of the air filter housing upside down.  Then it was to increase the flow of air into the air filter housing.  But it could be used to draw in warm air from around the engine.  But I thought the point here was to get better mileage with the same amount of power.  You want to cold, dense outside air to get more oxygen into the combustion chamber.  By heating and vaporizing the fuel then mixing it with the cold, dense outside air you get better power and better mileage.

Swirling the air makes the gasoline move a lot more, further molecularizing (breaking down into individual molecules) the gasoline.  One way to do this is a Cyclone to make the air spin in the intake manifold.  This is something that racers do to gain a little power.  Then the ultimate is a Turbo.  Turbos spin the air really fast.  Turbocharged engines are far more efficient than normally aspirated engines.  You can tell this by the amount of power they make, and by the almost non-existent emissions.  Also the turbo generates high frequency oscillations in the intake manifolds.  You can hear the turbo whine, well this is translated directly into the intake manifold.  This whine goes far above human hearing maybe as high as 50 KHz.  This acts like an ultrasonic transducer shaking the gasoline molecules apart, creating a cleaner burn, and fewer emissions.

Why not take all of the concepts and put them together.  Warm the fuel, use a Cyclone, put a turbo on it, and use ultrasonic transducers.  Make the system so efficient that there is not one molecule of gasoline that can escape.  You can test the efficiency of the system by hooking the tailpipe up to an emissions tester at the local state inspection facility.  They can tell you if you have unburned hydrocarbons coming out of your tailpipe.  Back when I had a Turbo Sunbird I never had a problem with the emissions test.  The turbo made it burn really clean, and my foot made sure the engine was hot.

Blessed Be Brothers...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #77 on: July 31, 2008, 08:58:05 PM »
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Offline exxcomm0n

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #78 on: July 31, 2008, 09:48:33 PM »
@ zmonkey

I have a '95 2G Eagle TSi that I've done a 1G swap into and am presently bogged down at the point so near the end it's not funny (vacuum tubes). I drive a '99 2G Mitsubishi Spyder GST that is bone stock as well as a '91 Toyota Camry that gets the most use these days due to gas prices.

EDIT

(Uh...the TSi and GST are both turbos, plus a Plymouth laser RSi.)

Let's just say I have too many cars, cause that's not all of them.

But I think you're missing a major point of turbo induction mechanics.

It serves the purpose of ramming air into the combustions chamber SO MORE gas can be added to it as well making for a marked power increase and cleaner emmisions

This is not a gas saving but a performance increasing enhancement (and used to greatly reduce emissions from diesel engines).

I'm not saying that a turbo wouldn't be a good addition to the mix for this experiment, in fact I think it's a great addition, but the intercooler (a radiator to loose the heat energy in induction air from turbo compression) could cool the mixture down far enough that the gas would re-condense into liquid petroleum and defeat the effect.

I think that the intercooler should be used BEFORE turbo compression (between air filter and turbo), instead of after as is normally done, which would help get more air to the turbo passively so it could heat the air by compressing it (as well as its proximity to the exhaust areas) to create the fumes that are the central focus of the thread.

The whole reason I think this approach makes the most sense and could effect the most change soon is that it's not asking people to switch their fuel, only use it more efficiently.

The object lesson that a container that has barely any liquid gas, but lots of contained fumes is more explosive than a full one should help introduce others to the idea as quite a few have heard that one. ;)

We can't have more fumes with cold dense air, but we can with larger volumes of "fumed" air whose movement and heat create the fumes with a non-inter-cooled turbo.

Kosher dude?

Blessed Be Brother....

Offline z.monkey

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #79 on: July 31, 2008, 10:03:15 PM »
Howdy exxcomm0n,

OK, so use the Cyclone to create a vortex in the intake manifold, and use the ultrasonic transducers to molecularize the gasoline.  Draw the air in across the outside of the exhaust manifold so its nice and toasty and keeps the gasoline vaporized on its way into the combustion chamber.  Hey, were just exchanging theoreticals here, no need to get puffy about it...

Blessed Be Brothers...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #79 on: July 31, 2008, 10:03:15 PM »
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Offline exxcomm0n

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #80 on: August 01, 2008, 01:43:31 AM »
Howdy z.monkey

I'm not puffy about it. ;)

I had thought about the use of turbo but hadn't looked into its aspects enough until you brought it up, and for that I thank you.

As for tossing out theoretics, I'm pretty good at that, and pretty sloppy about the manner in which I do it but I thought that I should point out that trying to make more fumes with colder air is a concept I bumped heads with just a few posts back in a much different way (and not very flattering) and so thought it might behoove readers of the thread to take that aspect into consideration.

If'n you could please bring a bit more about the ultrasonics angle to the table, I'll be appreciative as it's a weak point in my knowledge.

Please do not let me, or any other, keep you from posting your thoughts! ;D

Blessed Be Brother.....

Offline tishatang

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #81 on: August 01, 2008, 10:55:00 AM »
Hi All

My take on the Opel modified high mpg engine:

There is no water pump.  There is no fan.  A large truck radiator holds enough water for the short run anticipated.  The water circulates by what is called a thermo siphon principal.  When you have large hoses and the radiator sits a little higher than the top of the engine, the hot water flows out of the engine into the top of the radiator and the cooler water enters the engine from below.  Some early old time tractors used this principal.  No water pump needed.  I think there is a duct fan to force the hot air from the radiator through the crankcase and into the inlet of the carb.  The choke lever shown is to adjust  the quantity of air,  The reddish hose is the fuel vapor hose connected into the intake manifold below the carb.  The other end of the reddish hose looks like it is connected to a large tube-like chamber to collect the vapors.  You can kind of see a hose clamp there.  This engine will be tuned to run at only one optimum speed for economy.  There is no throttle.  They built in an optional gear to try to maximize milage.  No doubt the engine would be brought up to working temperature, and then an easy way to put in a measured amount of fuel for the run had to be implemented.

Unknown where the air inlet into the radiator is?  Maybe it is just collected from inside the engine compartment?  And, of course the design of the fuel vapor chamber?.  The exhaust heat was probably used to help vaporize the fuel.  Great pains were taken to prevent engine heat loss to the outside.  No outside air to cool the radiator.  Yet, the engine has insulation on the top and side covers and around the carb.  Like they didn't want those parts to be the same temperature of the engine compartment.  Maybe this was to fine tune the balance of the hot air and hot vapors a little independent of everything else as the engine compartment temperature rose?

Everything else was to eliminate drive train losses and weight.

Our problem is we have to have a variable speed engine and not overheat if we want to use our AC. 

Maybe the guys that have the car now can take some photos of the other end of the reddish hose and the treatment of the exhaust manifolds?  Therein lies the secret.

tishatang

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #81 on: August 01, 2008, 10:55:00 AM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #82 on: August 01, 2008, 04:15:26 PM »
When I think of the most efficient ICE, I think of Carnots perfect engine cycle. Carnot stated----
1)Air and fuel are taken in at atmsopheric conditions
2)Perfect Combustion takes place at maximum pressure and temperature
3)Exhaust gasses are released at as near to the initial conditions of (1) as possible--- ie atmospheric conditions.


Offline z.monkey

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #83 on: August 01, 2008, 05:26:34 PM »
Howdy Y'all,

Are you all familiar with the ultrasonic fountain?  I see them a lot in Asian stores, they are popular around Christmas time.  They are a decorative humidifier which use an ultrasonic element to vaporize water which forms a mist in the fountain.  The basic principle being  the water is exposed to ultrasonic sound which gives it enough energy to separate the water molecules and form a vapor.  In the fountain there is a self contained driver, some LEDs and ultrasonic transducer which a potted into a small stainless steel cylinder.  You just apply direct current to the device and it makes a light show and the water vapor mist.

Now lets switch gears so to speak and look at this in light of the topic of this thread.  Suppose we use these ultrasonic sound waves to add energy to the gasoline molecules causing them to separate?  When the molecules are separated, and you have a finer mix of gasoline and air you get a better, more efficient burn.  The gasoline will burn more completely, and there will be less hydrocarbons left in the exhaust flow.  This produces more power with less gasoline, or any fuel for that matter.

Now how could we apply the ultrasonic sound waves to the gasoline and air mixture?  For a carbureted engine you could place the ultrasonic transducers in the plenum of the intake manifold pointed up at the base of the carburetor.  As the fuel air mixture flows down through the plenum in the intake manifold we excite the mixture with the ultrasonic sound waves which separates the gasoline molecules.  For a fuel injected engine this is more difficult.  Most modern fuel injection systems are called direct injection.  The fuel is sprayed into the airstream right at the face of the cylinder head where the intake airstream is flowing into the cylinder head.  This doesn't leave much space to manipulate the fuel air mixture.  And here don't be fooled by a fancy injector system, they are just as inefficient as carburetors, but they are more reliable because they are controlled by a computer.  We have a couple of options here.  First we could add a tube which is inserted into the intake manifold runner just after the injector.  The tube has the ultrasonic transducer in it, and it is modulating the mixture where it is sprayed into the intake manifold runner at the face of the cylinder head.  This, I think, would not be as effective as having the ultrasonic transducers in the plenum of the intake manifold under the carburetor.  The second fuel injection scenario is to mechanically modulate the tip of the fuel injector at ultrasonic frequencies, which are around 40 Kilohertz.  Any of these scenarios would require extensive development.  I think it would be worth it if we can make a significant difference in the amount of gasoline we are using.  Plus there is a potential market here.  If we could design a retrofit kits to add these improvements to any vehicle then there is a business to be started.  You could be helping to reduce pollution, increase fuel efficiency and make money at the same time.

Oil is a limited natural resource.  It will not last forever.  We need to optimize its usage.  Doing what we can to improve efficiency and reduce pollution is the ecologically responsible thing to do.  By doing this now we are helping to take the burden off future generations.  I shudder at the thought of my descendants having to clean up the mess that I made.  I want to make the world a better place for them.

Blessed Be Brothers...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #83 on: August 01, 2008, 05:26:34 PM »
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Offline Libra8

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2008, 08:08:29 PM »
Excellent work gentlemen. I drove a 1982 Datsun/Nissan 310 back in the day and it got 35/36mpg on the highway. It's hard to believe that in 25+ years cars aren't getting better mileage. Keep up the good work.

Offline pese

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #85 on: August 02, 2008, 02:23:38 AM »
Howdy Y'all,

Are you all familiar with the ultrasonic fountain?  I see them a lot in Asian stores, they are popular around Christmas time.  They are a decorative humidifier which use an ultrasonic element to vaporize water which forms a mist in the fountain.  The basic principle being  the water is exposed to ultrasonic sound which gives it enough energy to separate the water molecules and form a vapor.  In the fountain there is a self contained driver, some LEDs and ultrasonic transducer which a potted into a small stainless steel cylinder.  You just apply direct current to the device and it makes a light show and the water vapor mist.
 
Blessed Be Brothers...

Youse water vaporizers. that are made for room .
tje "ventilate" up to 1 liter @ hour in the room.

the are for 110 or 220v AC
but wor "internal wir 30 or 60 volt DC (different models)
that can produced very easy, (also tranfomatorless) from 12 volt
car supply (it must not used normal invers)
Pese

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #85 on: August 02, 2008, 02:23:38 AM »
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Offline tishatang

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #86 on: August 02, 2008, 03:09:43 AM »
@All

As I further look at the Opel engine, I think this is what they are doing?

The electric fuel pump pressure is adjustable.  See on the dash, there is a rotary multi-position switch, or it mechanically adjusts the fuel pump pressure.  The fuel line then goes to the exhaust manifold where it gets heated.  It is then squeezed down into a refrigerator capillary tube where the heated pressurized fuel then expands into an expansion chamber.  As soon as the fuel inters the expansion chamber it vaporizes because it enters a vacuum condition from the engine intake manifold.  This capillary tube and expansion chamber is probably hacked from a AC unit of appropriate size?  Adjusting the fuel line pressure gives some degree of control of the mixture, along with the choke valve on the carb controlling the air supply.  The only thing the carb is used for is the butterfly valve to control the air supply.  Upon expansion, the vaporized fuel would give up heat and cool down, but then, you have the superheated air from the carb mixing it all together in the intake manifold.

If this is the principle of vaporization, then you could even convert a fuel injected engine.  Leave the FI stuff intact, but build another fuel system with its own pump and variable pressure regulator.  Run the fuel line coiled up inside the exhaust manifold heat riser designed for a hot air intake for a carburetor engine.  Then run it into a capillary tube/expansion chamber and then through a solenoid valve to engine vacuum of the plenum chamber of the FI system.  After the engine warms up, you flip the switch turning off the FI system and turning on the vapor system.  The FI air plenum chamber has its own butterfly valve to control air flow.  Lots of variables to tune to get it right, but maybe doable?

Maybe someone has a small lawn mower engine to try and see if the AC capillary/expansion tube hack works?
It is just an idea in my head.  I am not in a position to try it and see if it works.

Tishatang






Offline allcanadian

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #87 on: August 02, 2008, 05:02:15 PM »
I just posted this in another thread and thought you might find this interesting ;D

Quote
I would agree, however your statement in itself gives us a clue as to the direction we should be heading. A lean AFR will "melt the pistons", as the expansion ratio(pressure) thus power developed is based on a rise in temperature in the cylinder how is it that a lean mixture can produce more heat?. In another thread I recalled how 20 years ago I was running a 1600cc VW engine on 80% methanol and had 8" blue flames coming out my 10" zoomy pipes(short exhaust pipes on each cylinder). I was running super lean and as you say super HOT, the issue was easily solved with proportional water injection and I retained all if not more power in the process of running a very lean methanol AFR. In truth most ICE's add extra fuel to "cool" the cylinder which makes no sense what so ever from the stand point of efficiency when you could easily add water to accomplish the same cooling.
What is not common knowledge is that the lean AFR follows a bell curve, that is as the AFR is leaned out the cylinder temperatures gets hotter and hotter then------starts to cool down as there is not enough fuel to produce the excess temperatures. This presents new problems as we are now in an area of combustion called "detonation" combustion. 10 years ago I built a few valveless pulsejet and pulse-detonation engines to explore this area further and I will tell you the transition from a conventional burn to detonation is beyond what we consider extreme. A good quality detonation in a conventional ICE would probably throw your cylinder heads through your roof in record time. In my pulse detonation engine I used schedule 160 pressure pipe that should tell you something of the dangers involved, however if you could produced produce peak temperatures at the top of the bell curve and introduce a "moderator" such as water vapor to control the burn I think this could work. Stan Meyers used exhaust gas recirculation as a moderator(atmospheric nitrogen) to control the combustion speed in his HHO injectors as can be seen in his patents.
I know this may seem a little off topic but if we are dealing with efficient "combustion" it helps to know the facts you are not going to read in the textbooks.
If you are going to vaporize fuel and lean out the AFR you should know there are "issues" to deal with.

Offline petersone

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #88 on: August 02, 2008, 05:39:13 PM »
Hi z.monkey
I would like to try your idea of ultrasonics on a ride on mower,however,I don't understand "plenum of the intake manifold pointed up at the base of the carburetor"in particular plenum, also the ultrasonic apparatus I would require.
I would be thankful for your advice on the above.
happy hunting
peter

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #89 on: August 02, 2008, 07:00:00 PM »
HELLO ALL,

IS ANYONE FAMILIAR WITH THESE PEOPLE? http://www.fuelvaporcar.com/index.html
THEY ARE GETTING 92 MPG IN THEIR 5 SEC 0-60 MPH CAR!

I JUST SENT THEM THIS:

CHEERS
Thane

Fw: New Generator Technology featured in Canadian Business Magazine

Dear FuelVapor,
 
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Our generator technology does not cause any deceleration under load (according to Lenz's Law) in fact our generator causes the prime mover to accelerate. Please see enclosed Ottawa University test data and demo video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vruf7s9PaA
 
Recently we have been featured in the Canadian Business Magazine and GQ Magazine is covering our technology in their October "Green Issue".
 
Neil Young has been in touch with us several times and he has expressed interest in using our generator technology in his X Prize LincVolt entry. We have presented our technology to MIT and NASA has also requested a demonstration.
 
We would like to offer our technology to your Canadian team as well.
I hope you find this interesting.
 
Congratulations and Best Wishes
Thane
 
Thane C. Heins
President - Potential +/- Difference Inc.
Perepiteia Generator Inventor
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p.s.
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« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 07:35:02 PM by CRANKYpants »

 

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