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Author Topic: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE  (Read 107485 times)

Offline poynt99

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2008, 06:58:55 AM »
We are not heating the fuel either, although we are considering it, as there are probably more gains to be had that way as well.

So, you say that you did this 30 years ago, and didn't continue with it?  I don't understand why you wouldn't investigate further on a possible way to half gas consumption.
Give it a try again, maybe this is the future of the ICE.

ciao,   Dirt

hey i was only about 12 years old at the time.  ;)

all i did was remove the fuel tube that dips into the fuel tank as i recall. i did have a rubber hose running from the carb to somewhere else too at one point, but i can't remember the details at the moment.

the 5hp Briggs and Straton ran for about 20 minutes on about 1/8 inch of gas before it quit. the tank got cold so i assume it sucked all the fumes it could out of the tank then became starved for fuel. this is simple stuff. the key is to perfect it so the throttle still works properly, and you don't get the fuel starvation problem, but that's where the pre-heating comes in.

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2008, 06:58:55 AM »

Offline maxc

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2008, 09:05:07 PM »

Offline z.monkey

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #62 on: July 29, 2008, 10:48:49 PM »
Howdy Y'all,

I uploaded a copy of the original Pogue Carburetor Patent to OverUnity.Com.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item103

I hope this helps solve some problems...

Blessed Be Brothers...

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #62 on: July 29, 2008, 10:48:49 PM »
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Offline exxcomm0n

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #63 on: July 30, 2008, 06:39:41 PM »
Just back spouting ideas off the top of my head (since it's the only area flat enough to hold them, and not many!).........

These are again HHO/fume centric.

What if you had a fuel evaporation tank producing (bubbling) into a HHO vessel with it's bubbling action helping agitate the HHO generation vessel and helping keep HHO gas from staying in suspension in the water?

This might allow more complete mixture of fume/HHO for a greater combustion potential and less fuel. I wouldn't think you'd have to worry about petroleum vapor being held in suspension in water.

It also creates another flashback suppressor before the fume chamber (which it seems might benefit from being attached to the exhaust somewhere along its length and a fuel injector spraying the side of the now higher temp fume chamber for generation).

The more thorough mixture might make for the HHO vessel output holding less evaporated water (a separate radiator for HHO water might be necessary now that it has the added heat transferral from fume bubblage as well as heat created by electrolysis).

So the petroleum is heated by generation chamber/exhaust.........wait, that doesn't make sense since it's a heat/cool/combust cycle.

But..............

If the HHO generation vessel in under vacuum, could fresh air be introduced into it and the petroleum gets injected into it (since petroleum and water don't mix that well) to use the heat there for fumage generation and THEN goes to exhaust for further heat excitation before intake induction?

Kinda the exact opposite of what an intercooler does for turbo induction since that's cooling air to cram more into the combustion chamber with more fuel.

:D

Just some thoughts kids.

Offline TheOne

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #64 on: July 30, 2008, 08:30:20 PM »
I found this: take a look at the red quote

Quote
Gasoline is a complex blend of carbon and hydrogen compounds. Additives are then added to improve performance. All gasoline is basically the same, but no two blends are identical. The two most important features of gasoline are volatility and resistance to knock (octane). Volatility is a measurement of how easily the fuel vaporizes. If the gasoline does not vaporize completely, it will not burn properly (liquid fuel will not burn).

If the gasoline vaporizes too easily the mixture will be too lean to burn properly. Since high temperatures increase volatility, it is desirable to have a low volatility fuel for warm temperatures and a high volatility fuel for cold weather. The blends will be different for summer and winter fuels. Vapor lock which was a persistent problem years ago, exists very rarely today. In today's cars the fuel is constantly circulating from the tank, through the system and back to the tank. The fuel does not stay still long enough to get so hot that it begins to vaporize. Resistance to knock or octane is simply the temperature the gas will burn at. Higher octane fuel requires a higher temperature to burn. As compression ratio or pressure increases so does the need for higher octane fuel. Most engines today are low compression engines therefore requiring a lower octane fuel (87). Any higher octane than required is just wasting money. Other factors that affect the octane requirements of the engine are: air/fuel ratio, ignition timing, engine temperature, and carbon build up in the cylinder. Many automobile manufacturers have installed exhaust gas recirculation systems to reduce cylinder chamber temperature. If these systems are not working properly, the car will have a tendency to knock. Before switching to a higher octane fuel to reduce knock, make sure to have these other causes checked.

Now my question is, if we block the fuel to return back in the tank, we can have our gas expand and turn it into vapor without to much modification and increase mileage?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #64 on: July 30, 2008, 08:30:20 PM »
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Offline dirt diggler

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #65 on: July 30, 2008, 10:58:23 PM »
Thanks for all the input guys, keep it coming ;D

I've been staying at the cottage for the last 2 weeks, so no internet at night, and no access to the truck to continue the conversion,  but, lots of warm water, cold beer, and sunshine, so I guess the V8 can wait ::)

Anyway, we will be continuing after this weekend, and hope to have some definitive answers shortly after.

We all need some time off right ;)

ciao,    Dirt

Offline pese

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2008, 04:28:57 AM »
@ramset.
for the french links...  (
i have mor information for you , i  found some picts from the carburatoir and exaust heater


give attention   ( I remeber following)::
that the iron in the exaust heater must be "burn in" for the first 15 minutes (of first running the system)
polarised to the N-S earth magnet field (so he take the magnet fields in the iron-middle-axis.(tiege reacteur)
(so the french text in $03xx.jpg !)

It sound a little "misteriose" but THE MOST of UNKNOWS , shown  misteriosly 

zhe shownd different Pantone-GEET carburators that are working in france and egypt  (big electricity generators).
i seen dozend pics of them and hundreds threds and lectures  in 2005/2006 in french language
Pes?

http://www.stormloader.com/users/pesetrier/geet/


 
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 04:51:13 AM by pese »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2008, 04:28:57 AM »
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Offline Zolar1

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #67 on: July 31, 2008, 04:37:31 AM »
I believe the concept here is just to burn the emitted gas vapors without inducing liquid gas to vaporize right before combustion.

edit-- I wish I got 100 MPG.. damn.. A oil change once every tank and a half.. :)

Sir? Was that Fill the gas and check the oil or was that check the gas and fill the oil? ;D

Offline Zolar1

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #68 on: July 31, 2008, 04:41:55 AM »
I found this: take a look at the red quote

Now my question is, if we block the fuel to return back in the tank, we can have our gas expand and turn it into vapor without to much modification and increase mileage?

If you block the fuel line return, you risk damaging the fuel pump. Fuel pumps aren't designed to be "dead-headed", hence the fuel pressure regulator.

Fuel pressure regulator dumps excess fuel that is not injected back to the fuel tank.
You COULD build up enough fuel pressure to force an injector to open at the wrong time.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #68 on: July 31, 2008, 04:41:55 AM »
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Offline TheOne

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #69 on: July 31, 2008, 06:27:35 AM »
If you block the fuel line return, you risk damaging the fuel pump. Fuel pumps aren't designed to be "dead-headed", hence the fuel pressure regulator.

Fuel pressure regulator dumps excess fuel that is not injected back to the fuel tank.
You COULD build up enough fuel pressure to force an injector to open at the wrong time.

Do the fuel that return back in the tank use the main fuel pump?

Is the fuel pump always running or just run when its needed?

I will need to learn more about fuel system because before I do something on my car I need to know what I am doing :)

Offline exxcomm0n

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #70 on: July 31, 2008, 07:06:00 AM »
More burbles forth.......

Let's say you take a pipe the size of the air induction and wrap it one complete turn around the exhaust manifold so that each end is pointing a different direction, and have the air be pulled from the air filter/HHO injection area ( I just like it's complete combustion/clean emission aspect a lot) through the top of the pipe wrap where fuel injectors are arrayed throughout the length so that each injector is facing a smooth area of the exhaust heated pipe to create fumage in response to acceleration demands.

Maybe mount squirter tubes connected to injectors a little farther than right next to the manifold and in the bottom area where the tube is sandwiched by the engine block, manifold, and down pipe.

Since running on fumes could be seen as running "ultra-lean" and creating more engine heat (although some say that has not been an issue yet), wouldn't a passive heat exchange be beneficial?

Oops! Just thought about the air induction cooling too.
Hmmmmmmmm........

Maybe just make the fumage chamber in that sandwich area (piping the HHO output to there) and have individual pipes (ending in a one way valve that can withstand combustion) running to the old injector locations and let piston vacuum draw in the fumes necessary for throttle demand.

Are there propane injectors as well as carbs?

Doesn't the air quantity needed decrease a bit?

Just some thoughts.....trying to see the least invasive modification with the best return.

:D


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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #70 on: July 31, 2008, 07:06:00 AM »
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Offline TheOne

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #71 on: July 31, 2008, 07:22:04 AM »
You can also use the PCV valve for HHO/gas vapor instead of the air filter. The good thing about the PCV valve is its run under vacuum.

Offline z.monkey

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #72 on: July 31, 2008, 12:14:43 PM »
Howdy TheOne,

In a fuel injected system the unused gas returns to the tank, where it will cool off.  There is considerable pressure on that line, like 50 PSI.  But there are stubs that come off that line which supply the fuel injectors.  If you were to heat the injector stubs with small electric heaters designed to be applied to tubes you could get some benefit.  In modern vehicles the gas is injected very close to the cylinder head so there is less space to modify the fuel spray. 

Blessed Be Brothers...

Offline Zolar1

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #73 on: July 31, 2008, 05:47:48 PM »
You can preheat the incoming air by 'tee' ing off of your heater hoses and running lines to a piece of 1/3" coiled copper tubing inside the fresh air duct.

As the vehicle warms, the air warms too. Less dense air = better MPG. More dense air = more power.

And while you're at it, relocate your IAT sensor so that the radiator fan blows on it. That too will help by retarding the timing (slightly).

Offline starcruiser

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Re: FUEL VAPORIZATION, DOUBLES MILEAGE
« Reply #74 on: July 31, 2008, 06:02:16 PM »
I would think a modification could be made to the fuel return scheme, use a pressure relief valve close to the fuel pump that bypasses the feed line back to the tank while maintaining the pressure in the safe zone for the injectors thus allowing you to preheat the fuel on the way to the injectors. I would think this would allow the fuel to maintain a warmer temp without recycling the pre-heated fuel back to the main tank.

As far as preheated air goes, earlier model cars have a air tube that pulls some heated air from around the exhaust manifold and sends it to the air breather (conventional carbs and throttle body types), some of these setups use a butterfly valve that is temp controlled as well. I am not sure of the newer models though.

My 1995 Chevy Van has this feature, it uses a flexible aluminum tube to feed the air breather neck from the exhaust manifold shroud.

 

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