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Author Topic: Pereptual Motion Wheel  (Read 10231 times)

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2008, 08:48:22 PM »
Ok, you all thought that was amazing? Well wait till you see what I have just come up with...

This pure mechanism may have the capabitly not to cause a light weight to lift a heavy weight, but a weight that may even rise itself through its own weight, now how does that sound?

Its going to be hard to explain this even with this picture (I have colour coded it to help)

(http://i36.tinypic.com/2j3r01z.jpg)

Here we have the main lever (red) second lever (blue) a presure lever (green) and a second presure lever (black) with a grey weight.

When the grey weight is placed in the presure lever this is what happens.

ps. the green presure lever slides down

The weight pushes the black presure lever down which pushes down on the green presure lever that pushes on the blue lever, the other end of the blue lever pushes up on the red lever which pushes the ball up. You see as the green presure lever is going down the weight is going up :)

Edit: lol it will be very strange if this works because if you took the weight out and pushed down where the weight would be, your hand would be pushed up with more power out than in, you would have to push to lift it haha
You could put another little weight at the far end of the red lever which will lift the large weight up if it doesnt lift itself.

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2008, 08:48:22 PM »

Offline broli

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2008, 09:08:28 PM »
Ok, you all thought that was amazing? Well wait till you see what I have just come up with...

This pure mechanism may have the capabitly not to cause a light weight to lift a heavy weight, but a weight that may even rise itself through its own weight, now how does that sound?

Its going to be hard to explain this even with this picture (I have colour coded it to help)

(http://i36.tinypic.com/2j3r01z.jpg)

Here we have the main lever (red) second lever (blue) a presure lever (green) and a second presure lever (black) with a grey weight.

When the grey weight is placed in the presure lever this is what happens.

ps. the green presure lever slides down

The weight pushes the black presure lever down which pushes down on the green presure lever that pushes on the blue lever, the other end of the blue lever pushes up on the red lever which pushes the ball up. You see as the green presure lever is going down the weight is going up :)

You could put another little weight at the far end of the red lever which will lift the large weight up if it doesnt lift itself.


To what is the joint of the black lever attached? To the background or to the red lever?

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2008, 09:30:50 PM »
The red lever

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2008, 09:30:50 PM »
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Offline Sprocket

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2008, 01:56:30 PM »
WM2D would tend to suggest that this won't work...

Offline Sprocket

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2008, 02:46:36 PM »
While I'm on the WM2D theme (again!) - here's a better attempt at the original idea.  Basically allowing the weights to rotate on their individual levers, to better allow the effect of the acting weight to propagate around the circle.  Unfortunately, while it does now require less weight to 'loop-the-loop', it is still needs to be considerably heavier than its fellow weights...

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2008, 02:46:36 PM »
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Offline Alexioco

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2008, 04:38:51 PM »
WM2D would tend to suggest that this won't work...

Sprocket, thanks for your help, thanks :)

I wouldn?t trust that too much though, also something is a little wrong, and that?s that the main lever fell down which shouldn?t have happened the lower pressure lever should have pushed it up or just keep it up. Maybe a little redesigning could be done because I don?t see why this won?t work at all...

You see, as long as the weight applies its pressure to the downward lever, then it should try to lift the main lever, which is the very thing the weight is resting on, then just a little force is needed to lift the weight, I really can?t see why that won?t work?

Here is my perpetual machine if it works.

When the ball rolls to the left and goes onto the balck bit, the see saw is lifted and it rolls to the other side and repeats the process...

Other weights may have to be assited which the big weight would have to lift on and of each side of the see saw...
(http://i38.tinypic.com/4zuo9i.jpg)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 05:22:10 PM by Alexioco »

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2008, 05:20:41 PM »
Hi Alexioco,
nice ideas, but I think the only working solution
will be found, if you use aditionally the centrifugal forces.

Your last idea, where your ball lifts itsself, will
only work, if the other lever units will be heavy enough
and their weight goes down.

So these devices are all too static and the center of gravity of the whole
device inclusive the levers and all moving parts will always go down.

But we need a device, where the center of gravity will always be able
to lift itsself over the axis.

This in my experience can only be achieved by using
1. springs in the design to store the weight-movement?s energy in springs
and later reuse the weights by them being pulled back via the stored spring energy
or
2. using centrifugal forces to unbalance the wheel
constantly.

But a design without springs or not using centrifugal forces will
never work as the center of gravity always moves down.


Regards, Stefan.

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2008, 05:20:41 PM »
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Offline Alexioco

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2008, 08:37:40 PM »
Ok I think I have found it, here we go...

(http://i34.tinypic.com/sw7bco.jpg)

Ok here we have a long see saw with a heavy weight in the middle, there are two light weights placed either side of the see saw. Both light weights weigh 4 ounce each and the large weight weighs 10 ounces which is heavier than the two light weights together...

So we know that the large weight can lift the light weights, but also the light weights can lift the heavy weight because they are further from the axle than the large weight.

When the large weight rolls to the left, it will push down the left-hand side of the see saw causing the light weight on the right to fall onto the see saw and the light weight on the left to raise up therefore causing the large weight to roll back to the right, this then continues.

Offline greendoor

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2008, 06:46:47 AM »
The problem with using leverage to lift a heavy weight with a light weight is that you are trading force for distance.  Yes - the lighter weight can lift the heavier weight - but in doing so it falls a further distance.  The COG falls - and therefore needs lifting back up again.  Any energy gained in raising the heavy weight is going to be required in full to raise the light weight back up again.  The best you can hope for is a perfectly balanced system - less losses. 

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2008, 06:46:47 AM »
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Offline Alexioco

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2008, 01:40:54 PM »
The problem with using leverage to lift a heavy weight with a light weight is that you are trading force for distance.  Yes - the lighter weight can lift the heavier weight - but in doing so it falls a further distance.  The COG falls - and therefore needs lifting back up again.  Any energy gained in raising the heavy weight is going to be required in full to raise the light weight back up again.  The best you can hope for is a perfectly balanced system - less losses. 

yes but when the large weight rolls to the next side, it will ift it with ease because its heavier plus on the same side of the axle as the little weight it lifts

Offline erickdt

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2008, 03:05:13 PM »
Wherever the pivot points are on the wheel where your arms are connected will be the only place that bares the weight, regardless of how the arms are orientated on the pivots.

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2008, 03:05:13 PM »
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Offline markh

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2008, 08:04:53 PM »
Here's a question.   If you had a lever that was balanced halfway between the edge of the wheel and the center of the wheel.   ( ie a 2 foot radius, with a two foot lever.  The center of the lever is a peg or bearing half way between the center and the right of the wheel, )   Say it's equally balanced with one pound on each end.      Is there a difference between where the center of that lever is if it is free to rotate, versus if it is somehow attached to the side of the wheel.

What I'm getting at, is if you had four of those, and the ones on one side rotated to attach one weight to thee end of the wheel, but the ones on the other side were rotated to keep all of the weight on the center of it's lever (halfway between the center and edge)   would this create an inbalanced wheel?





Offline broli

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2008, 08:21:19 PM »
Here's a question.   If you had a lever that was balanced halfway between the edge of the wheel and the center of the wheel.   ( ie a 2 foot radius, with a two foot lever.  The center of the lever is a peg or bearing half way between the center and the right of the wheel, )   Say it's equally balanced with one pound on each end.      Is there a difference between where the center of that lever is if it is free to rotate, versus if it is somehow attached to the side of the wheel.

What I'm getting at, is if you had four of those, and the ones on one side rotated to attach one weight to thee end of the wheel, but the ones on the other side were rotated to keep all of the weight on the center of it's lever (halfway between the center and edge)   would this create an inbalanced wheel?

The answer is no. Whether it's horizontal or vertical the total weight on the peg will stay the same. It's like asking whether the scale will give you a smaller number if you lay on it instead of stand on it.

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Pereptual Motion Wheel
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2008, 10:05:12 PM »
Hey broli, I always like your comments, what do you think about this idea, its slightly improved

(http://i38.tinypic.com/25flz6e.jpg)

P.S I would like to work with you on some sort of wheel?

 

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