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Author Topic: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !  (Read 428115 times)

ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #165 on: December 26, 2006, 02:19:54 PM »
Hi Pese,

I've seen plenty on the Joe Cell before. The things I like better about this Linnard Griffin process is the low voltage and temp.

I am putting together a "Control Cell" just for a reference. It will be an exact replication of experiment #13 with the correct electrodes and colloid concentrations as outlined in the patent. This one I will not alter in any way. Nor will I add DC power to it. I will just add water (de-ionized) to it to keep the liquid level steady. Let's see how long it goes and what happens to it. I'll throw in as many tungsten-carbide electrodes as I have just to maximize the hydrogen output. My goal is to exceed 100 hours of operation. Then let it go as long as I can and see what happens to the cell.

EDIT: Started the cell today (12/26/2006) at 10:00AM United States Central Time. Nice slow steady rate. Using 7 tungsten (1/8") electrodes and One (3/8" X 6") Zinc electrode. Going to let it run until it stops. Only going to add DI water each day to maintain the liquid level. *Voltage=0.837V

Update: (12/27/2006)9:30PM United States Central Time (35.5 hours elapsed) Still going the same rate. Short video. I tapped to get the bubbles going sideways. This is the rate it has been going the whole time. Not dramatic but slow and steady. No power added. *Voltage=0.829V

Update: (12/28/2006) 10:00PM United States Central Time (60.0 hours total elapsed) No change in appearance or rate. Except for some white residue on the upper part of the tungsten electrode. *Voltage=0.827V

Update: (12/29/2006) 9:45PM United States Central Time (83Hours 45min total elapsed time). The rate has visually appeared to remain the same. *Voltage=0.827V. A short video is attached. I will end this experiment at 100 hours (This will duplicate the patent results) and begin testing the two cell, DC circuit that mramos sent me.

Update: (12/30/2006) 2:00PM United States Central Time 100 hours total elapsed time. Rate has not changed. *Voltage=0.827V. I will now end this experiment. I have duplicated the patent results over a 100 hour period of time. The zinc electrode is barely worn, and the cell looks fine. It looks as if it can keep going and going.

*I added some voltage data taken during the experiment. The wiring across the electrodes was removed and each cell was allowed to relax for 5 minutes. Then a voltage across the electrodes was taken.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2007, 07:15:39 PM by ResinRat2 »

Dingus Mungus

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #166 on: December 28, 2006, 01:03:24 AM »
@ Mramos
If I'm not mistaken you need a flash arrestor not a check valve. A check valve allows gas to only pass in one direction but doesn't prevent flash back in the system. I looked arround for a bit and here are some options I have found.

Best price I could find
http://www.hionsolar.com/n-comp.htm

Made for larger gas molecules but should still work well for you
http://store.cyberweld.com/flarandchva.html
http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/DG-A.html

Expensive as hell but state of the art in hydrogen safty valves
http://www.fuelcellstore.com/cgi-bin/fuelweb/view=Item/cat=35/product=964


Are you planning to recycle the exhaust to the electrolyzer also?

kukulcangod

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #167 on: December 29, 2006, 06:30:41 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi:
    To all , happy new year ,about to go on vacations myself again but anxious about coming back to experiment directly with the more reactive formulas I found again what
Stefan so conveniently had posted before in another related forum, take a look at this I hope Resinrat you are able to do this first , because I'm no expert at chemistry at all.......but this videos are spectacular ,just to save you time looking for the link:

http://www.harti.com/griffin/

Good luck to all.

ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #168 on: December 29, 2006, 09:21:33 PM »
Thanks K,

I've seen all these already. I think if you are looking for a more reactive experiment then experiment #22 in the patent might be a good try. It is described as almost "uncontrollable".

I am going to do a variation of it in the future but I want to avoid the acid approach. I prefer using strong base like NaOH because it doesn't have the unpleasant odor of the acids. Especially when I am doing these experiments at my home location. All I need is extra chlorine or sulfur odor to add fuel to an already agitated wife. (lol)

Mine has been going 72 hours now and still has not changed (visually) in gas production. Once I prove this "control" experiment is stable past 100 hours then I will begin experimenting with an DC circuit that mramos is sending me. Then I plan on adding a fuel cell to the mix (like Dingus Mungus's idea ) and see if we get a self-powered hydrogen-fuel cell unit that is overunity and has some decent output.

I don't have any plans to "burn" hydrogen. The goal here is a unit that produces electricity overunity, and recycles the water back into itself.

Have a happy and safe New Year everyone.

ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #169 on: January 02, 2007, 11:06:11 AM »
Hi everyone,

Quoted from post #181 on 12/30/2006:

Update: (12/30/2006) 2:00PM United States Central Time 100 hours total elapsed time. Rate has not changed. *Voltage=0.827V. I will now end this experiment. I have duplicated the patent results over a 100 hour period of time. The zinc electrode is barely worn, and the cell looks fine. It looks as if it can keep going and going.

*I added some voltage data taken during the experiment. The wiring across the electrodes was removed and each cell was allowed to relax for 5 minutes. Then a voltage across the electrodes was taken.

kukulcangod

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #170 on: January 04, 2007, 02:06:40 PM »
Resinr
         There is so much to read and understand in the patent , thank you for the suggestion

 but this is another part I don't completely get, and is the use of the battery ,ok overunity would recharge the battery ,and then
how long to "regenerate " the system??
would that be practical ?
 say running a house on storage battery power in the meantime?.....

 then ,water ....but for what I understood again, this is not a closed cycle or self sustainable device, some metals would have to be replaced in time? as well as keeping and eye on water level .

Theoretically if overunity is achieved then that would be the lesser problem, but is it possible to draw that much electricity out of a chemical reaction??

 .......and how expensive anyway would be to cover the cost of metal and water supply??

How big such a device have to be build to power something in a practical way? .....a big tank of quemicals on the roof top or the basement for example?

Sorry just very curious here I spent one morning starting at 3 am reading the patent
 


Cheers

ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #171 on: January 05, 2007, 02:35:52 PM »
Hi K,
I will try to answer all your questions to the best of my ability.
Resinr
         There is so much to read and understand in the patent , thank you for the suggestion ?  No problem, I hope big groups of other people start experimenting with the stuff on the patent. Then they can post it here and help us all.

 but this is another part I don't completely get, and is the use of the battery ,ok overunity would recharge the battery ,and then
how long to "regenerate " the system??
would that be practical ?
 say running a house on storage battery power in the meantime?.....
If you look back at a previous post in this thread you will see a diagram of a couple of circuits I drew out that will allow the ability to control the production of Hydrogen and Oxygen gasses; and also the regeneration of the zinc electrode. (Page 7 reply#122)The idea is to use two cells wired together. One produces Hydrogen and the other produces Oxygen while regenerating the zinc anode. This is to go for about 15 seconds or so, then the polarity switches and the Hydrogen and Oxygen are produced in the opposite cells. By continually switching between these circuits, this allows the continual production of both gasses, and the continual regeneration of the zinc at the same time. So there should theoretically be no down time. This was thanks to Dingus Mungus's idea on Page 7 Reply #127.

 then ,water ....but for what I understood again, this is not a closed cycle or self sustainable device, some metals would have to be replaced in time? as well as keeping and eye on water level .The ultimate goal is a sealed unit. (Dingus Mungus's idea Page7 Reply #127)All gasses are put through the fuel cell that produces electricity and recycles the water and heat. The reactions in the cell will theoretically regenerate the metal colloids also. So the water level, colloids, and metals all regenerate and recycle. Theoretically, since it is an endothermic reaction, all energy to power the unit will come from the ambient temperature outside the unit.  This is the ultimate goal.

Theoretically if overunity is achieved then that would be the lesser problem, but is it possible to draw that much electricity out of a chemical reaction??  It should theoretically be scalable to any size we need. We humans are resourceful when not encumbered by nosey bureaucrats with greedy fingers.

 .......and how expensive anyway would be to cover the cost of metal and water supply??
The metals and water should be cheap in comparison to oil based systems. If this works  it should be economically viable.
How big such a device have to be build to power something in a practical way? .....a big tank of quemicals on the roof top or the basement for example?That is to be determined by further Research and Development. Sounds like fun. How about you jump in too?

Sorry just very curious here I spent one morning starting at 3 am reading the patent  
No need to apologize. At 3:00 in the morning all I can do is get up, go into the John, pass gas and burp. You have my admiration.

Thanks for your interest. I look forward to your contributions.
 


« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 08:05:15 PM by ResinRat2 »

kukulcangod

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #172 on: January 06, 2007, 03:22:01 AM »
RR
       Thank you ,really for taking the time on pondering about this I think this questionare is going to be very usefull to us all
 I'm quite sure your grey matter is high quality so it won't be swollen for long time ;D
 Yes I'll jump in trying to determine size of such a device and also my approach is going to be now to make electricity without explosive alternatives,
 

ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #173 on: January 13, 2007, 10:10:23 PM »
Hi all,

Got a really neat piece of glassware that we were going to dispose of at work. This thing must be at least a few decades old. I snatched it up to use it for a volume-gas generation study at home. Experiment #13 (of course) from Dr. Griffin's patent bubbled into a glass by water displacement in a bucket. 2/3 of a cup over a 12 minute period. That calculates to about:

2/3cup   X  Pint   X  Quart  X   Gal.      X  3785ml  =  13.1ml
12 min     2cups    2pints     4Quarts       Gallon        min.

Not a very fast rate, but no power added to it. This should be enough to power a small fuel cell and regenerate a battery. Then use the battery to regenerate the zinc electrode. Over 100 hours that's approximately:

13.1ml    X  1 Liter   X  60min  X   100 hours  =   78.6 Liters of Gas generated.
 min           1000ml     hour   

I put a match to the gas and got a neat "POOOOFFFFF!" Must be all hydrogen.

The next step is the fuel cell, which for me should be arriving on the 15th.

Here's a pic of the neat gas measuring apparatus:

         
« Last Edit: January 14, 2007, 04:11:56 AM by ResinRat2 »

hartiberlin

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #174 on: January 15, 2007, 08:22:17 AM »
Hi ResinRat,
looks very nice.
I had no time to play with it yet.

Please keep us updated with all your work.
Many thanks and looking forward
to see your fuel cell setups with it.

Many thanks again.

Regards, Stefan.

Dingus Mungus

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #175 on: January 15, 2007, 11:40:10 AM »
Awesome glass ware!  ;D

Thanks for the gas rate example! What size anode and cathode?

I've been playing catch up since the hollidays, but I plan to stock up on components soon for a another experiment. Thanks for the great update!

~Dingus

ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #176 on: January 16, 2007, 12:44:37 AM »
Hi Dingus,

The anode is a 3/8" X 6" zinc rod that I purchased from boatzincs.com and the cathode is comprised of nineteen 1/8" X 7"- 2% Thoriated Tungsten electrodes wrapped together and tightly bound. These I purchased from a welding supply store nearby. I wanted to get as much surface area as I could with the cathode to boost the hydrogen production. The NaOH solution immerses the anode and cathode with a depth of 5" from the bottom of the glass apparatus. The total liquid volume is approximately 300 ml.

I will be working to add the hydrogen cell as soon as my wife picks it up from my mailbox. That should be tonight. I'm not sure how I will put it all together yet but it should be fun.

Thanks Stefan and Chris for the kind words. I really hope what I am doing can help others in getting this technology developed and spread.

Thanks everyone for your interest.

ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #177 on: January 16, 2007, 03:07:32 AM »
Hi Everyone,

I have some pictures of the fuel cell so you can see what it looks like. I just need to read the instructions and see how I can hook these two together.

Fuel Cell Specs: (Fuel Cell Eco H2/Air)
80x80x48 mm
180 g. Weight - 16cm2 electrode area
300mW Power
0.4-0.96V Generated voltage.

Thanks for your interest.

nickle989

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #178 on: January 16, 2007, 03:28:10 AM »
Very interesting read from the first post to the last one .. it took me a few days.

A few points/observations

KOH or NaOH when in contact will give off Hydroxy at an uncontroled rate.  I know as I use KOH in my setup for just plain electrolysis. Powered draino has Al flakes in it, you can take liquid plumber and cover an Al pop can and watch what happens massive amounts of hydrogen and oxygen but no way of controling it.

The reason why you get more Hydrogen/Oxygen when you apply a battery/voltage accross the anode and cathode is you are causing brute force electrolysis.

To get the voltage up in the cell to 12volts build a cell like you would a battery +-+-+-+- etc using each anode/cathode as 1.2 / 1.5 volts.

A NiMah battery needs to have a certain frequency/regulator tied to the circuit to charge it ... I would use a simple lead acid battery .. ie. emergency light pack or from a ups.

I would almost place the zinc plate on the bottom maybe ontop of a piece of stainless steel mesh and tie the connection to the SS mesh.  That way when the zinc oxidizes it will just fall to the plate at the bottom .. or maybe do not let the zinc anode deplete completely or maybe both.

The switching circuit is an awesome idea and there should be no reason for it not to work.  One could almost use a load on the circuit ie. a led light or something and the switching circuit to charge a different battery using diodes for the one way or something along that way .. switch the led on off at a high rate the eye won't tell.

I think when you have the copper rod in the solution it will probably plate itself with the silver and zinc together.

The chemecal equalibrium can certainly be achieved using experiment#13 ... I will be trying it this weekend .. though only thing I need to find is some coloidal silver and magnisium ... I hope one of these health stores will have it.

Dingus Mungus

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #179 on: January 16, 2007, 06:42:10 AM »
Thanks for the specifics of your electrodes. Do you have a way of weighting your anode? Perhaps the scale you're using to measure your NaOH. Showing the mass lost over gas produced could even further prove its overunity status.

I will be working to add the hydrogen cell as soon as my wife picks it up from my mailbox. That should be tonight. I'm not sure how I will put it all together yet but it should be fun.

Be careful to seperate your hydrogen and prefill its connection hose with hydrogen before connecting it to the PEM's H2 input. Are you planning on storing power from the PEM in cap bank for a reduction cycle or using it to power a load of some sort? I've been eyeing those PEM model car kits since Christmas. :D First I plan on doing more material research with my next order. Lots of stainless steel and WC rods and a adjustable DC power supply Mramos pointed me twards.

With the data from your last experiment and some of my results its obvious to me that a long term H2 on demand device that uses infrequent reduction cycles is possible. I believe that using a third electrode composed of stainless steel grade 316 as the anode of the reduction cycle will prevent the deterioration of the tungsten electrode and contanimation of the cell. I'm ordering pure components this week. I think we're close to building the "Over unity cell" we've all been discussing these last few months.

Good luck with the PEM experiments! I can't wait to hear if you can pull max wattage out of it.

~Dingus