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Author Topic: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !  (Read 375892 times)

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1170 on: August 23, 2008, 12:26:35 PM »
Hi Chris,

My three-electrode cell has been running about 10 hours. Voltage is at 0.224 for the regeneration and I am beginning to see evidence of zincates. This tells me I will need to up the regeneration voltage for the next experiment. I will see if I can get a good picture, but the best way to describe it is that it is very irregular and blobbish. It also is a slightly different shade of grey. In contrast, the zinc replating gives a smoother appearance.

If zincates form it will eventually cover the entire zinc electrode and kill the reaction. So even if you are not sure about the zincates, they will make themselves known when the reaction stops. LOL.  I have a couple of zincated electrodes from previous experiments; I will see if I can get a good picture of them as well.

I think I will mix up fresh solution and try this again at a voltage of about 0.5, this should be a good middle ground between 0.22 and 0.85. From there I will see which direction to go.

I want to concentrate on this direction first because it is the most promising for the simplest electronic control running off a fuel cell.

Good job, Chris!




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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1171 on: August 23, 2008, 03:40:15 PM »
OK, over the last couple of hours I have been slowly ramping up the regeneration voltage. At the present time I am at 0.830 volts, and I plan on leaving it at this setting and letting it run. The zincates just fell off the zinc rod and a new coating seems to be forming. Not sure what it is yet. The hydrogen gas is pouring off the tungsten/carbide electrode, but I don't see any zinc plating on it so far. Hard to tell because there are so many hydrogen bubbles coming off that it is hard to see the surface of the electrode. I am hoping oxygen is coming freely off the zinc rod, but it is very hard to tell.

At this point I don't want to go any higher in voltage so I will see what happens now.

I will keep you posted.

Oh, my camera battery died, it needs a couple of hours to recharge; then I will post pics.



Offline Tacmatricx

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1172 on: August 23, 2008, 04:55:04 PM »
Hi Dave,

Thanks for giving the configuration a try! I was about to try the lower voltages but have had a few cells in the 0.83 to 0.84 range without success. Usually the zinc ends up totally eroded. I think there is a current in the electrolyte flowing from the positive regen tungsten to the generation tungsten because it is a less resistive path than the zinc? May need to add a few ohms of resistance to the connection between the zinc and the generation electrode to make it prefer the zinc path and force zinc plating on zinc?

One other idea I had was to pulse the regeneration voltage to allow strong erosion and replating at intervals while producing H2 the whole time? you could switch the regeneration tungsten between a positive source and a direct connection to the zinc to allow it to be used for both generation and regeneration. May also allow any zinc plating on the regen electrode to react off?

Let me know what you find!

Chris

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1172 on: August 23, 2008, 04:55:04 PM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1173 on: August 23, 2008, 05:20:21 PM »
Hi Chris,

This cell at 0.83 volts is running fine but I think there is evidence of zinc starting to plate on the tungsten-carbide electrode.

I am going to drop the voltage to around 0.7 volts and see what happens.

I will keep you posted.

Offline Tacmatricx

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1174 on: August 23, 2008, 08:14:05 PM »
Hi Dave,

Through my charging and discharging experiments with different cells, it was acting like a battery but when discharging and charging it would hang for the longest time at 0.640V

Could be the sweet spot to keep it trickle charged? You may have to either stabilize it there or go to slightly below 0.7V

Chris

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1174 on: August 23, 2008, 08:14:05 PM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1175 on: August 23, 2008, 08:42:12 PM »
Hi Chris,

So far I've kept it at 0.830 volts for several hours. It looks like the zinc is replating, but I think it's on the cusp. It almost looks like the oxygen is not coming off enough and the zinc is replating in an almost hybrid of zincate and zinc. I think I need to bump up the regeneration voltage a bit more, but I know for sure the zinc will be plating heavily on the tungsten carbide hydrogen producing electrode then.

So your idea of using a resistor between the zinc and the tungsten/carbide electrode (hydrogen producing) would help to prevent the plating, but I don't want to stop the hydrogen reaction.

My electronics kit has a series of resistors that span from 100 ohms to 470K. I need some help in choosing what resistor to slip between the tungsten carbide and zinc electrodes to prevent the plating of the zinc. How do I do this?
I need a bit of advice here.

Thanks for your help in advance.


Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1176 on: August 23, 2008, 09:02:51 PM »
Pictures of a zincated electrode and the electrode in my present cell.

See how the zincated electrode is bumpy and irregular. A zinc plated electrode would be smooth with some small feathery metal covering the outside of the electrode. The electrode in my present cell shows almost a hybrid between the two. That is why I can't lower the regeneration voltage. I need to bump it up a bit.

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1176 on: August 23, 2008, 09:02:51 PM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1177 on: August 23, 2008, 09:05:26 PM »
Present electrode. Kind of a hybrid between zincated and not zincated.

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1178 on: August 24, 2008, 02:18:41 AM »
Hi Chris,

The smallest resistor I have is 100 ohms, and when I placed this between the zinc and tungsten/carbide electrode the reaction virtually stopped. So what I have won't work.

I stopped the reaction and visually examined the tungsten/carbide electrode and was pleasantly surprised to see no zinc had plated on it. So I started the reaction back up and increased the regeneration voltage to 0.85 - 0.90 volts. I still don't see much oxygen coming off the zinc electrode though. I am thinking that the hydroxide is being consumed.

I will let this run until tommorrow, then I will start a new cell with fresh solution and crank it to 0.9 volts right at the start, maintaining this voltage throughout the experiment. I want to see if I can get the oxygen to come off freely, just like the hydrogen.

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1178 on: August 24, 2008, 02:18:41 AM »
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Offline Tacmatricx

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1179 on: August 24, 2008, 06:14:42 AM »
Hi Dave,

You need to measure the resistance from one end of the zinc electrode to the other end and record it, then compare it to the tungsten electrode. Basically the easiest path is the one that will be plated. if you can make the tungsten the least preferable route then you should be ok.

To reduce the resistance... place resistors in parallel. Two 100ohm resistors in parallel equal 1 50ohm resistor.

I will make my measurements tomorrow and let you know what resistance I am using.

Chris

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1180 on: August 24, 2008, 01:58:56 PM »
Hi Chris,

Thanks for the little bit of basic electronics knowledge, I will play a bit with the parallel resistor setup.

My voltage has been steady at 0.89 - 0.91 volts and I measured the draw at only 1.48mA for the regeneration. This is consistant with my previous reactor experiments. The draw for the regeneration was always small at about 0.85 volt and around 4 - 5mA; so these numbers don't look out of line.

I would really like the regeneration voltage to be about 0.95 volts to encourage the oxygen to come off so I will need some type of resistor setup between the T/C and zinc. That is a great idea you thought up. So simple, when you think about it, but it never occured to me.

The gas is coming off at a good rate so far. I will keep you posted.

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1180 on: August 24, 2008, 01:58:56 PM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1181 on: August 25, 2008, 04:15:42 PM »
Hi Chris,

I am not at home right now, but last night my apparatus started an odd behavior. My voltage is set at 0.90 volts for regeneration and the hydrogen is flowing off the tungsten/carbide electrode, but it is starting to pulse out the hydrogen gas. By that I mean there is a period of 30 seconds or so where the gas output slows down to a crawl and very few bubbles are produced, then it suddenly surges with hydrogen gas coming off at a fast rate, then it slows down again and repeats the cycle. It has been doing this all night (about eight hours) and was still doing it when I left for work this morning.

It could be that it is dying and on its last leg of hydrogen production. The surface of the zinc electrode looks like a mixture of zincated and non-zincated metal.

Well my voltage has been all over the map with this cell, and I tried quite a few different procedures. So my new cell will have a starting point of 0.95 volts constant regeneration from beginning until it stops. Then I will try different voltages and record everything I see.




Offline Tacmatricx

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1182 on: August 26, 2008, 03:37:53 AM »
Hi Dave,

I have two cells running right now, trying both configurations.

I have placed a 2.5Ohm resistor across both zinc tungsten junctions and this seems to be working well... I have my supply voltage set to 1.2V and the cell is running between 0.639V and 0.640V until it charges and then I expect it to jump to over 1V. I am seeing good gas production on the zinc electrode and the tungsten, while not producing as much gas as before is chugging away at approx 50% of what it was. Looks stable and will try to keep the voltage jst low enough so I am not getting any gas coming off the regeneration tungsten electrode.

Will let you know how it goes.

Chris

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1183 on: August 26, 2008, 04:02:53 AM »
Nice Chris,

Eyeball the gas rates as best you can. You want that 2:1 ratio of hydrogen coming off the tungsten to oxygen coming off the zinc.(I guess I just stated the obvious). I am glad to hear you are getting gas off the zinc. This is the key to the whole objective and it makes me glad that you are able to do this. If the gas doesn't come off the zinc at a good enough rate then you are just forming zincates.

Well my cell is at a crawl right now. I am going to start a new one like I stated. I couldn't get to it today because I was too busy. I am working long hours now, and I am going to a class at my local college during the day, so my day is getting longer. Probably by Thursday or Friday.

I am glad you are doing your experiments. This should be very interesting!

Offline Tacmatricx

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1184 on: August 26, 2008, 05:58:17 AM »
Hi Dave,

I have to say I'm really impressed by the little cell I have built running in an 18ml test tube. The zinc electrode is producing a good quantity of gas and I have tuned it to a point just below where the regeneration tungsten starts to produce bubbles. It's stable at around 0.98V @ 0.2mA at the moment and the zinc has formed a nice even coat without the usual irregularities.

Gas is coming off at a decent rate but not high enough to cloud the cell like the original shorted circuits now that I have the resistor in there.

Will keep you posted,

Chris

 

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