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Author Topic: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !  (Read 375893 times)

Offline loosecannon

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1155 on: August 15, 2008, 03:58:14 AM »
RR,

that reactor is SWEET!!!!

cant wait to see what it can do.

i am very curious to see what the reactor does at differing ambient temperatures.
outside on a hot day, in the refrigerator, etc...

best of luck to you,
LC

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1156 on: August 15, 2008, 11:56:02 PM »
Hi Chris,

I decided to go back to my original electrode arrangement. The use of the configuration similar to your experiment caused zinc hydroxide to plate like crazy on my tungsten-carbide electrodes. I guess 0.77 volts is too high. I don't have a way to control the output of the fuel cell, short of adding extra fans in the circuit to suck out juice, so I am going back to using two zinc electrodes, one for hydrogen production and one for regeneration, and switching them every 6 or 8 hours or so.

So the same thing happened to me, and the fuel cells did not prevent the zinc plating on the tungsten-carbide rods.

I guess you need to go back to your lower voltages and try your experiment that way.

I can, however, add my third and larger fuel cell to this arrangement and perhaps get a voltage going so a circuit can be designed to do the switching of the zinc electrodes automatically.

I will start experiments in that direction.

Offline Tacmatricx

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1157 on: August 18, 2008, 05:05:29 AM »
Hi Dave,

I've had no luck with my configuration. Something is still unbalanced at 0.84V. I'll try it again and the carbon idea but right now I just need to make one that works. I have switched to the two and two configuration and am working on a timer circuit and relay to switch the electrodes every 30 minutes.

Will let you know how it goes :)

Thanks,

Chris

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1157 on: August 18, 2008, 05:05:29 AM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1158 on: August 18, 2008, 12:53:08 PM »
I've had no luck with my configuration. Something is still unbalanced at 0.84V.
Maybe the voltage, in this configuration, is too high. I still like your idea of the one zinc electrode. Maybe the voltage just needs to be lower to work? I really hate to abandon your idea until it was checked out better. I can't help thinking that there is a correct voltage that would give just the right balance to the reaction and encourage the zinc to replate without "pushing" the plating too far and cause zinc to plate on the tungsten electrode.

I think I will try your configuration, but put some type of variable resistor in the circuit to fine tune the output voltage so I can slowly step it up a little at a time. I just need to see what type of variable resistor would work so that this can be investigated. Any ideas? Something I could buy at Radio Shack?

Thanks for your efforts Chris.

Offline Tacmatricx

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1159 on: August 18, 2008, 09:57:13 PM »
Hi Dave,

Definatly not abandoning the idea... I need to collect more data in the form of current used in the cell relative to zinc surface area. With this data from a working cell I can apply it to the 3 electrode setup.

I am using a three connector 200KOhm pot for my voltage adjustment. I need a smaller pot as well for the fine tuning. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiometer

Look at the schematics there under "Theory of operation". Use a 200KOhm pot and a voltage supply of 5V (from a phone charger, the lower the voltage the better), this will allow you to tune to any voltage between 0 and 5V. This way is impossible to accuratly get to a specific voltage easily, I'm working on an easier circuit and will post one when i'm done.

Thanks,

Chris

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1159 on: August 18, 2008, 09:57:13 PM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1160 on: August 19, 2008, 05:28:30 PM »
Hi Chris,

I went looking through my surplus parts and found a nice three-electrode potentiometer (can't even read the numbers on it) that seems like it will do the trick. I hooked it up to a AA battery and it gave me the range of 0 - 1.5 Volts output. Nice. This is exactly what I need.

I will place it between the fuel cell and the regenerating zinc rod and use it to regulate the voltage.

I will need to replace my zinc rods before I get this thing going again.

RR2


Offline Tacmatricx

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1161 on: August 21, 2008, 04:51:09 AM »
Hey RR,

Got two cells hooked up next to each other now... one with the four electrodes and one with the three... I found that the minimal amounts of current used allow me to use a Basic Stamp to control all the switching. It's a hobbyist microcontroller that acts like a mini computer, I can use it to provide exact power and do the switching for me as well. Will let you know how it turns out :)

Chris

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1161 on: August 21, 2008, 04:51:09 AM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1162 on: August 21, 2008, 12:55:31 PM »
Great work, Chris. I keep rubbing my hands in anticipation of what you will find out.

Excellent!!!!

Offline Peterae

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1163 on: August 21, 2008, 01:01:52 PM »
Hi Chaps

I hope to be joining in soon, I am slowly acquiring parts.
I would be interested to here what you think of my cell design.
I have a few things I am not yet sure will work. I am going to use Fiber Glass Tissue as a membrane to stop the gas from mixing.
Also I intend to buy some rubber sheet and cut the gaskets out, my question is will this leak, I will use threaded nylon with nuts to tighten the whole assembly.
I am going to use Tungsten Foil, I have no experience with this stuff yet, and I know its tough stuff and am hoping I can corrugate it to increase the surface area.

For the switching of the electrodes I will use a 1.5v motor driving a 300:1 gearbox and use a cam system made out of 2 cd's and have micro switches attached to cut channels to swap the electrodes every 5 minuets.

My first problem is buying the Colloids, although possible via the internet, this was extremely expensive, I have therefore decided to make my own, I have ordered some pure silver wire and some magnesium ribbon, I have also ordered a TDS meter from china at a cost ?12.70 according to the instructions it measures total dissolved solids including metal ions in ppm(picture attached below).
Again not sure if this will work but I will try it, all I need do is run a current through the electrodes in a deionized water bath and periodically test until I get the desired ppm, lets hope the deionized water reads zero to start with LOL.

Peter


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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1163 on: August 21, 2008, 01:01:52 PM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1164 on: August 21, 2008, 03:02:19 PM »
Hi Peter,

Nice job on your graphics and your design idea. It's good to see others contributing here. Your design looks like it could be miniaturized and made small enough to power notebook computers and cell phones, or even larger. I am eager to see how you would build it.

I don't have experience making colloids, and I really don't have any interest in it right now. I would personally rather buy good quality prepared solutions with known concentrations; but that's just myself.

Magnesium metal reacts with water a bit violently, so I am not sure how magnesium colloid is prepared. I did an internet search and some of the colloid generators say that you can make magnesium colloid with them so it must be easy to do.

Please keep us posted here on your progress and any interesting results you discover.

Offline Tacmatricx

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1165 on: August 22, 2008, 03:39:15 AM »
Hi Peter,

The design is interesting, similar to the Alkaline fuel cell designs I proposed earlier in the thread. Never thought of applying the principal to the water fuel cell tho? GOTTA LOVE SKETCHUP!!!

Just make sure none of the gasket material or epoxy used to build the cell reacts with the solution... I had a few weird reactions with all kinds of materials I wanted to use!

The fiberglass membrane is something I was considering as well but opted out as the reaction relies on the fluid mixing to pass ions from one side to the other. Not sure how this membrane would allow that to happen reliably. I am actually considering adding a pump to my cell to force a flow in the cell and see if that gives me anything more when I turn it on as apposed to off in the same cell.

The rubber gaskets should not leak... I would however propose Fluorine Rubber Sheet instead of rubber gaskets for their high resistance to the alkali. Stainless steel bolts and large washers would give you a tighter seal I think?

I am using the thinnest tungsten rods I can find so that I can still sand any crap off from a bad run... foil would be ruined if you had a bad run... I will defiantly be using pure foil (not coated film foil) for my final reactor once I am through the bad cell stages.

I like your CAM idea with the micro switches :) and it would be totally adjustable with the ability to be powered from a fuel cell. At 300:1 there should be more than enough torque.

Good luck with the self made colloids... maybe you can use alcohol with the magnesium and then add water and boil off the alcohol? That way there would be no Mg + H20 reaction?

If you build it... Run PPM tests at intervals to see if this figure changes related to cell output!

Well Done... Build it... It will work! We just need to keep it running!

Chris

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1165 on: August 22, 2008, 03:39:15 AM »
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Offline Peterae

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1166 on: August 22, 2008, 12:15:40 PM »
Hi RR2 and Chris

Thanks for the replies.

The main reason I wanted to try this design is for ease of manufacture, I wont be using any glue, but the flexibility of this system as well, for instance if I wanted to build Hydrogen and Oxygen storage chambers into the design then I use a slightly larger sheet of Perspex with the cutout's in place, also it would be possible to build a fuel cell into the design making the end product in one solid box shaped device, 2 wires out for electricity and 1 spout in for water, well we can all dream LOL.

I need to do some trials first, as you say the membrane may not work and this is key to my gas not mixing.
My main concern was the leakage of the Lye through the rubber gaskets; I wish I was as confident about this as you seem to be ;) Tests are the only answer although your words have helped me feel a bit more confident about this approach.

I am not too worried about using new electrodes each time, I have been buying Tungsten foil on eBay 99.999 pure quiet cheaply, still need to find a source for zinc sheet in the uk, I am thinking roofing supplies and they also use rubber sheet as well.

My first step is to try making the colloids, I don?t think I will have much trouble with silver, but as you both say Magnesium will react with the water, so I need to try some experiments, luckily I have a PH meter as well so I can see how much Magnesium has been converted to hydroxide, I will try using chilled water first in the hope the reaction with water will be low.

I will report how things go, I will try to jump the hurdles as they approach  ;D


Cheers
Peter

Offline Tacmatricx

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1167 on: August 22, 2008, 04:24:32 PM »
Hi Peter,

The use of bolted gaskets is a solid idea for leak prevention... My only comments are to find the volume of 100ml of H2 gas at one atmosphere and the same for O2 and try to build the cell so that as the gas pressure increases, the levels in the H2 and O2 sides of the tank remain level. Also please add a pressure switch so that at x psi the generation connection is broken and will reconnect when the pressure is restored. Wouldn't want an explosion of corrosive liquid and shrapnel!

Run some tests on the perspex, based on the cell size I would reccomend a torque standard for the bolts to keep the pressure even, oversized thickness end plates and large washers to distribute the bolt load on the perspex.

"I need to do some trials first, as you say the membrane may not work and this is key to my gas not mixing." This is just an idea and I cannot confirm or deny that the liquid mixing is key. However I am observing more violent reactions when the elecrrolyte solution has a flow to it. Hope to attach a video to that point when I get a chance.

As for gasket leaks, I am using lab gear in my setup which are all glass with rubber bungs so I have been blessed with no leaks as yet.

Please confirm the foil is actually pure and is not a plastic film coated in pure tungsten like aluminium foil. Have a feeling the tungsten could be separated from the plastic sheet as were common with some tests I did with simple aluminium foil in water electrolysis.

Check with countertop makers for zinc sheeting... it's a common countertop in most places.

Have you looked into the specs of the Fluorine Rubber Sheet? Thats the gasket material I will be using in my production cell.

Good luck with the colloids and the cell... Nice to have another builder in the team!

Chris

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1168 on: August 23, 2008, 05:00:04 AM »
This work is inspiring.

I decided to set up a three electrode cell similar to yours. One tungsten/carbide, one zinc, and one very thin (1/16") tungsten electrode to be used for regeneration. I have it wired like your three electrode cell Chris. Voltage is being controlled by using an old Radio Shack electronics kit. (I posted the vid on YouTube) using a voltage regulator circuit.

I have had the cell running with 0.222 - 0.224 volts being used for regeneration. The cell looks very clean and I am seeing the oxygen coming off the zinc. No plating evident as of yet. I am beginning to see the feathery evidence of zinc replating as zinc.on the zinc electrode. Very nice. I hope it stays as zinc and not zinc hydroxide. Time will tell.

It could be that this configuration only requires very low voltage to encourage regeneration, not like the four electrode cell that required 0.80 - 0.85 volts. Very interesting. I think this may be a very important aspect to pursue. The three electrode configuration may be the answer.

Thanks for your interest.


Offline Tacmatricx

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Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #1169 on: August 23, 2008, 06:03:24 AM »
Dave,

You're the one with the most experience noticing the hydroxide... do you have any images of what a good plating looks like and what the zincates look like?

I'd be very interested in what voltages works well as a good base. I can build the electronic controls but I need a solid baseline to build it.

Next step is trying the carbon or sulphur... Should be interesting at the very least!

Chris

 

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