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Author Topic: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...  (Read 251269 times)

Offline spinner

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #195 on: August 16, 2008, 09:14:33 PM »
Spinner and Omega_O,
I probably should have never brought up things I have done in the past.  It is true that I made a magnet wheel ten or twelve years ago.  Sorry you don't believe in me but I did it.  I have no reason to make up stories on this website. 

OK, I'd like to believe you... But you have to understand that the world is literally filled with similar claims, and somehow not even one of them came into fruition... You must understand that a skepticism is a natural response (nothing personal)...

Quote
Making the new video, I have truly been having problems and it takes time to solve problems when changes are made.  It seems like so many people doubt my credibility because things I do are hard to believe and are against convention beliefs.  But everything I say is the truth and I'm getting tired of having to give explanations to people on this website.  As I explained in earlier comments, there are a lot more people working on this than me.  I was warned not to go on this type of website because of skeptics and nonbelievers.  Most of the people pick on anything they can find...

Hold on... I (or most of us) can understand that you may have problems with improved replication... No problems with that. Your posts made so far are showing that you're (probably) a sincere pearson, and you are convinced that you "have the real thing"... Nothing wrong with that, too...

It's good that you have a professional help (from the people you can trust). Don't you worry about the conventional science/beliefs - if you have what you think you have, I'm sure that even the "blind orthodox science" will realise that sooner than you may expect...
Btw, if you decided to show your work in the public (like on this OU site), you should expect a mixed emotions replies... If you strongly believe that you "have it", than not even one of the "negative" posts should disturb your work...

Quote
I still would like to thank people for all the good comments but I'm really thinking of cancelling my membership on this website.  The machine will be getting documented as soon as possible.  Likewise, the new video will be out as soon as possible.  But I'm finished for now on this website.  I will not be back to reply on any comments until the documentation is complete and the video is finished.  Good luck all.
James

Why would you cancel your membership here? I can understand that you are very busy, or even that you may be angry because of some skeptics comments (like mine)...
But you have promissed that you will show us a new video of your device, and that you'll provide more data (complete documentation?)... Yes or no?

Please, don't make the same mistake as hundreds of people made before you....

Cheers!

Offline hypersoniq

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #196 on: August 16, 2008, 09:36:41 PM »
Don't overlook the flywheel in that vid.
that's why he can have time to switch the plug.
Bigger flywheel = more time to switch the plug and smoother operation but you pay for that with more energy initially to get the system up and running.

The choppiness seems to coincide with each paddle wheel passing the water stream... there must be a smoother setup for that.

Offline spinner

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #197 on: August 16, 2008, 09:40:01 PM »
@spinner
Had some deep meditation about pelton turbines ;-))))

The ones I know are of the extreme heavy style with huge mass huge inertia _AND_ they are almost directly coupled to _heavy_ generators.
This is the reason why any oscillation of torque is absolutely wasted energy. It sucks the power back from the inertia of the system _wasted_.

What we have here is a super-lightweigth (compared to the other elements, involved kinetic energy) wheel with almost no inertia tribute to the system.
Because it is coupled with a belt to the generator - which is capable of storing lots of inertia(the gen) - if I see the pretty long acceleration phase - and the long rundown time.
The relatively elastic belt can store / release the input energy in a way that the resulting efficiency is still high.

JD meant that the pulley drive is some feature which had a high tribute to the performance of the system.
This is the reason why I still claim - that under this circumstances - even such "infficient" "looking" stuff can gain high efficiency. (as long as the involved components match)

If you look at the internas of the pump  and notice the almost _ instantly on_ behaviour (on the testrun) - as well as the same on unplugging the pump (at the end of the video) there is pretty no inertia with the pump.
The powerconsumption/efficiency of the pump depends on the rpm/vs flow. This relation is negative as you see in the datasheet. rpm constant, high flow, high load, rpm constant, low flow (height to lift), low power consumption.

If the voltage of the generator would drop slightly, the rpms of the pump would go down immediatly (no inertia) - the rpm/vs flow would change
in the direction of more efficiency, higher load (from pump view) and would finally give more ouput. In this case the pump has some effect we would
call negative resistance in EE. BTW, more energy is sucked from the generator witch is immediatly feed by the belt and the pulley with some energy back.
In the video the speed locks quite stable for some time - but if the efficiency is higher than you expect - this system can have a very long rundown  time.
rgds.

Hey, Fritz! Interesting thoughts, for sure! Hmm, maybe..?...

Although I don't think it is the case. I think there's no intermittent or turbulence actions, no resonance or elastic belt oscillations, no "negative resistance" parallels... And no "FE". ..
Sorry!
Of course, this is just IMHO... I'd like to be proved wrong, believe me!

Btw, do we have any replications yet? The setup is rather simple, made of common parts. It shouldn't be hard to do ...?

Cheers!

Offline fritz

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #198 on: August 16, 2008, 10:33:38 PM »
@spinner
Maybe you didn?t get the point....

1)
I meant that a pelton only needs to be a pelton
if its heavy like a pelton, has lots of inertia and/or
is directly coupled to a generator with lots of inertia.

2)
Because of 1) - a lightweight paddle wheel which is
coupled via a lossless spring system too a fat inertia
can be high efficient - because the (potential) losses
due to torque/speed oscillations(because of less paddles than in pelton scenario)
are backed up in the spring and released to the generator.
 (ok its a belt here - not a spring)
Because of the dominating kinetic energy of the water, the
oscillation of the paddlewheel(inertia) is quite low, rest is stored
in the spring and released.

3)
This pump type works with constant rpm - with constant
voltage. If the voltage changes - rpm changes.
The current it sucks depends on the relation rpm vs. flow.
For high flow == high current. lo flow - low current.
If you have medium flow x with nominal rpm, nominal voltage
and medium pump current - and reduce nominal voltage to V1,
you have lower rpm R1, but improved rpm vs. flow. This means
that current I1 will be reduced to V1 because of ohms law,
 - but because of the improved
rpm vs. flow - the pump has another setpoint - means the current drop
will be less or in an extreme case negative.
This would look like the resistance of the pump goes down with
decreasing voltage (which is in fact no negative resistance - just used
the wrong words) but is caused
due to the shifted operating point of the pump.

4.)Because of all those issues and high inertia involved - I expect
a non OU with very long rundown time.

So from my point of view - there is no glimpse of strange or hypothetic
operation. Just very matched components.
(The behaviour of the pump is well documented by the datasheet,
and the stuff with the paddlewheel sounds pretty logical).

anyway.




Offline 666666

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #199 on: August 19, 2008, 05:28:06 AM »
Has anyone here looked at the capacitor setup. What I see is two dual electrolytic capacitors. What I see is one wire coming out of the generator going to the + side of the first capacitor and the minus side of the first cap going to the minus of the second capacitor and exiting from the + side of the second cap into the wire that goes to the plug receptacle. The other wire from the generator to the plug receptacle, has the same hookup??? It used to be a common practice to use electrolytic capacitors in a AC circuit with this hookup. I admit I let my imagination run a bit but you really can't see the hookup on the lower wire and it does look like these are dual electrolytic so I am making some assumptions. This is how hendershot used his capacitors in a AC circuit. I would like some input from anyone here with their thoughts on this. Also if these are motor run capacitors why are they in series and has anyone seen this done before. Normally capacitors are used in a generator/alternator to regulate voltage. This is not the case here.
If this is hooked up the way I think, does it tune the generator? Or the motor? Or both?
thanks

Offline 666666

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #200 on: August 19, 2008, 05:43:25 AM »
Next question(S). What size is the orifice that the water comes out of?? My guess is .75 to 1".
Is the orifice a Venturi??
It looks to me like the Paddle is 14" in diameter and the large pulley with the belt is 18". Anyone have an opinion or better yet a way to figure this out with measurements of ???
Since we already have a reference of 18" for the large pulley can these measurements be determined from the video???
James: Do you know what the working principle of your device is?

Offline fritz

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #201 on: August 19, 2008, 09:06:48 AM »
Has anyone here looked at the capacitor setup. What I see is two dual electrolytic capacitors. What I see is one wire coming out of the generator going to the + side of the first capacitor and the minus side of the first cap going to the minus of the second capacitor and exiting from the + side of the second cap into the wire that goes to the plug receptacle. The other wire from the generator to the plug receptacle, has the same hookup??? It used to be a common practice to use electrolytic capacitors in a AC circuit with this hookup. I admit I let my imagination run a bit but you really can't see the hookup on the lower wire and it does look like these are dual electrolytic so I am making some assumptions. This is how hendershot used his capacitors in a AC circuit. I would like some input from anyone here with their thoughts on this. Also if these are motor run capacitors why are they in series and has anyone seen this done before. Normally capacitors are used in a generator/alternator to regulate voltage. This is not the case here.
If this is hooked up the way I think, does it tune the generator? Or the motor? Or both?
thanks

I think that there is even a bridge rectifier below the lamp.
My idea was that this is "self excited" AC generator - with rotor field build up by dc coil,
rectifier is used to get the rotor field, and the capacitors help to even that out.

Capacitors don?t regulate voltage - they are passive - not active components.
They can be used to store charge, buffer energy in times of overflow and release
them if needed. In case of asynchronous AC motors they are used to delay one
phase of the motor (if not using 3 phase motor) to help start up and to give direction.
A powersupply with rectifier and capacitor is called "unregulated" power supply.


rgds

Offline 666666

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #202 on: August 19, 2008, 05:17:46 PM »
Look at the video in high resolution full screen and use the stop button. There are only two wires going to the plug receptacle. Capacitors "are" used for voltage regulation just Google it.  "BUT" NOT in this case. Capacitors can be used for impedance matching. This is an elementry project for beginning electronic students where a 60cps power supply is put in series with an inductor in series with a capacitor in series with a lightbulb. When L, C, and R, are matched the light will light to full brightness the same as if there was no L no C and no R in the circuit. I did this 30 years or so ago. If I remember right I made a variable inductor 1/4 henry in series with 22 Microfarad in series with a lightbulb. To tune just slide the [core] of the inductor in and out of the inductor. I used a three inch PVC pipe wrapped with 1000 turns of 15 gauge magnet wire and a silicon steel laminate core. By sliding the core in and out, the light could be adjusted from no brightness to full brightness.
   Because the Capacitors are in series, Generator to caps to Motor, It appears that the caps are used for impedance matching. I think to do this properly the generator would have to be rewound or an adjustable inductor would have to be placed in series with at least one of the capacitors for best results.

Offline fritz

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #203 on: August 19, 2008, 10:05:56 PM »
Look at the video in high resolution full screen and use the stop button. There are only two wires going to the plug receptacle. Capacitors "are" used for voltage regulation just Google it.  "BUT" NOT in this case. Capacitors can be used for impedance matching. This is an elementry project for beginning electronic students where a 60cps power supply is put in series with an inductor in series with a capacitor in series with a lightbulb. When L, C, and R, are matched the light will light to full brightness the same as if there was no L no C and no R in the circuit. I did this 30 years or so ago. If I remember right I made a variable inductor 1/4 henry in series with 22 Microfarad in series with a lightbulb. To tune just slide the [core] of the inductor in and out of the inductor. I used a three inch PVC pipe wrapped with 1000 turns of 15 gauge magnet wire and a silicon steel laminate core. By sliding the core in and out, the light could be adjusted from no brightness to full brightness.
   Because the Capacitors are in series, Generator to caps to Motor, It appears that the caps are used for impedance matching. I think to do this properly the generator would have to be rewound or an adjustable inductor would have to be placed in series with at least one of the capacitors for best results.

What I can see in the picture is that 2 cables comming from socket and lamp -
than there is a connection on one wire with a fuse or something, on the other wire
there is a wedge (right word ?) - one wire disappears at this point somewhere beyond
the cap, the other one goes to the right cap - than in series with the other cap - than
goes to the strange thing behind the lamp, top of left end of generator.

For me its even unclear if the stuff not might operate with DC. The type of motor
used in the pump could even work with dc. At the beginning, only the pump is operated
with mains, than he plugs pump in the "output" of the gen.

What concerns the regulation -
You can control and steer things - in that case you adjust or tune something.
If your regulate something - there is a control loop with an actual value,
desired value and correcting value.
Capacitors might be part of a control loop setup - as integrator in an PI regulator
for example.
(....) I think we just use different words for the same.

rgds.

Offline JDHardy54

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #204 on: August 19, 2008, 11:49:44 PM »
Quick quiz:

I'm leaving in about 15 minutes to go over to my friend's workshop to look what he is using for wire to rewind.  We used a very thin wire and I'm pretty sure that he wrapped 550 times in each phase.  He wants to use a thicker wire, with the same amount of wraps for more power.  The question I have to this website, before I leave - what is your opinion on gauge of wire vs. clockwise, then counter clockwise and how many wraps per phase?  I don't know a lot about generators - I'm a pump and pulley man.  That's about it.  Please have an open mind and give me some info I can use to bring to my partner so  we can get this rewound and back up running as soon as possible.  The thinner gauge wire for some reason burned out.  That's as much as I know.

Whoever has an idea and have rewound a generator before, please give me your feedback before I leave, and it might help.  Don't forget that there is a lot more work that has been done to the generator and then rewound.  Maybe I shouldn't ask for help from any website but, I never know.

James

 

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #205 on: August 20, 2008, 12:03:44 AM »
HI James,
depends on how much empty space you have on your generator..
But I guess 200 Windings EACH with at least 3 millimeter wiresize diameter
should be okay to run your pump

Offline fritz

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #206 on: August 20, 2008, 12:28:59 AM »
mmmmhhhhhh.....

thinner wire == higher resistance == more heat ==more space
->
thinner wire / more turns == higher voltage == more pump rpm== even more heat

thicker wire == lower resistance == less heat == less space for turns
->
thicker wire / less turns == lower voltage == less pump rpm == lower heat


Hi !

Normally there would be kind of stabilizer/regulator in such setup which controls
the current of the rotor (like the regulator in a car generator).
If the output voltage is too high (means also output current high) - such regulator
would "chop"=="reduce" the rotorcurrent== rotorfield to protect the system.

If you don?t have such thing in your setup - I would try to do the same amount
of turns with thickest wire possible. Any change in turns changes the output
voltage == pump rpm/power.

What concerns CW/CCW  - I would stick to the proven orientations ;.)))


rgds.

Offline 666666

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #207 on: August 20, 2008, 03:31:31 AM »
James: It would help if you could give any details that you know about the generator. For instance with a capacitor regulated generator, it is easy to raise the output voltage by just adding a larger Microfarad capacitor until the desired output voltage is reached. I assume this is what you are trying to do. However It appears that your generator is self excited so I will have to agree with Fritz on that one. It appears to me that your generator builder is a "cut above" most most motor re-winders. I would have to say that the generator is wound with finer wire to increase voltage and the capacitors are in series with the output to impedance match the system so that the High resistance in the fine wires "DISSAPEARS". If this is the case and I am quite sure it is you might be able to solve the problem by using a capacitor decade box to tune the capacitors to the inductors "better". I could easily tell you exactly how to do this if you could tell me the existing Microfarad rating of the existing capacitors. Are the capacitors dual electrolytic caps in series? If this is the case it is imperative that you hook them up plus minus minus plus in series so they can work in a ac circuit, otherwise they can/will explode. The reason you would use electrolytic in this manner is they pack a lot of capacity in a small package and can work in a ac circuit even though this is not what they are designed to do. If you wire the generator with less windings and your generator technician already impedance matched it, you will have to re tune it after winding. If you need to know how to do this let me know and I will try to run you through the basic process and make it as simple as I can.
Remember that impedance matching should reduce heating in your windings "AND" increase output voltage and amperage. I am assuming this is your goal. I would also suggest that you test your capacitors on a good capacitor checker. You will have to find a good electronics engineer to do this because a good checker costs well over 8000 dollars. I can tell you a simple way to do this yourself if you are interested.
YOUR TURN



Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #208 on: August 20, 2008, 04:58:32 AM »
@ James:

Look.  You are here on a public forum that is frequented by a lot of really intelligent, dedicated researchers and experimenters.  Unfortunately, not everyone here has the same goal in mind.  Some just like to rip into people because they themselves did not, or could not, come up with anything new.

Please don't let one or two folks here stop you from posting on this forum.  Most of us "want" to learn about energy and different ways to create and utilize it.  Please ignore the rest and stay until we can all together determine what exactly you have going on here.  You will find a lot of smart guys that can help you, and you can help us.  We are all in this together and, if you indeed found some breakthrough method with your device, we are all ears.

Put it this way, you could be the Wright brothers back at the turn of the century and post here that you found a method of flight.  A lot of us would be excited and helpful, still, some would say..."no way, you faked the flight".  I am sorry that this is the way it is.  Just read the posts from helpful folks and ignore the rest, and keep us in the loop.  I am sure there are a lot of folks on here that agree with me.  If you discovered some anomaly with generators, and caps, and water pumps, we need to know about it and go from there.  I hope you remain with us.  Thanks.

Bill

Offline 4Tesla

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #209 on: August 20, 2008, 06:05:44 AM »
@ James:

Look.  You are here on a public forum that is frequented by a lot of really intelligent, dedicated researchers and experimenters.  Unfortunately, not everyone here has the same goal in mind.  Some just like to rip into people because they themselves did not, or could not, come up with anything new.

Please don't let one or two folks here stop you from posting on this forum.  Most of us "want" to learn about energy and different ways to create and utilize it.  Please ignore the rest and stay until we can all together determine what exactly you have going on here.  You will find a lot of smart guys that can help you, and you can help us.  We are all in this together and, if you indeed found some breakthrough method with your device, we are all ears.

Put it this way, you could be the Wright brothers back at the turn of the century and post here that you found a method of flight.  A lot of us would be excited and helpful, still, some would say..."no way, you faked the flight".  I am sorry that this is the way it is.  Just read the posts from helpful folks and ignore the rest, and keep us in the loop.  I am sure there are a lot of folks on here that agree with me.  If you discovered some anomaly with generators, and caps, and water pumps, we need to know about it and go from there.  I hope you remain with us.  Thanks.

Bill

I agree..

Jason