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Author Topic: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...  (Read 231389 times)

Offline spinner

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #105 on: July 23, 2008, 12:44:46 PM »
Cavitation in liquid dynamics is something any engineer is fighting against since ever. Why? Simply because it always introduces additional losses (poorer efficiency due to a changed fluid viscosity, sonic/vibration,.. thus severely reducing machinery parts life.

Maybe you should check what cavitation does to e.g. power boat propellers, high-pressure nozzles, pump/turbine vanes and cavities, etc... A great amount of time, research and resources went into this.... Wouldn't you think that at least some of the people (experts) who were and are professionally working in this area would notice some interesting anomalies (especially in energy terms)?

In one of my earlier posts I made a comment that a setup like we saw on the video cannot be more than some 10, at best 15 % efficient. In order for such system to become self-sustaining, (at least) one of the parts must produce rather large 'overunity', say 10-times...

Without knowing any real data (inventor promissed new info in this week, yes?) it seems that most of the optimistic people here are looking at the pump as the (main) source for OU. But why would this pump (so far we don't know if it is modified) which looks like a common, serial product, been able to produce 10-times more work as it's input is???
You gotta be kidding....

Say, for instance, pump's CoP is 10. Naturally, when you say "coefficient of performance", then you have to define from where the additional energy is comming from. Period.

Ok, for the sake of discussion, let's say we don't know the source/origin of this surplus energy (e.g. we don't know what exactly is happening INSIDE the pump).
But, people, any water pump - if one consideres it as a thermodynamic system - has no unknowns regarding the input/output (co-efficiency) definitions.
If inputs are known (electrical (pump motor), water mass/volume/pressure/flow/temperature), then outputs are easy measurable, too.

Please, don't forget about CoM (conservation of mass) principle. Water (as a medium, a carrier of energy) pumped output mass is equal to input mass. Water flow/pressure ratios are conserved, too. So if a large pressure is observed at the output, the flow is reduced
accordingly. If not, your pump would be creating water out of nothing.

OU pump or not? Just do proper measurements of pump's electro-motor in operation. No matter if hyper-cavitation, nuclear reactions or even Dark Energy makes your pump OU, then the total electrical input (supplied power) to the pump motor would drop accordingly.
And with proper el. measurements you have to deal with inductive motor power factors, ohmic losses, V/I phase shifts, + all the other losses.... Don't worry, if the pump is 10xOU, even a cheap amp-meter will show you enough...

If anything unusual is happening inside the pump, then the temperature of the output water stream would be noticeably higher, too. Not just for the rather small amount which is a consequence of cooling a motor + other fluid friction effects...

OK, let's see those OU pumps now....

Indeed, this setup is not hard to replicate. Good luck to all the enthusiasts!
Hope to hear promissing news from the inventor.
Soon?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline khabe

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #106 on: July 23, 2008, 01:13:48 PM »
Thanks spinner ,
After all we can see that not all have lost common sense,
Finally!
Anyway - will attend closely to ;-)
khabe

Offline scotty1

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #107 on: July 23, 2008, 02:25:15 PM »
Hey.....If he needs a good water wheel come and see me.... ;D
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2552791560053353196cHREle
-------------------
I make pumps all day and come here to read about pumps.. ???
Scotty.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #107 on: July 23, 2008, 02:25:15 PM »
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Offline spinner

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #108 on: July 23, 2008, 03:44:11 PM »
@Khabe
Thanks!
Yes, we'll se what the future will reveal.
Cheers!

Offline guyver2k

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #109 on: July 23, 2008, 07:16:15 PM »
what pump make and model did he use?
how much PSI?
how many watts to power a pump like that?

i see where hes going with this but his over all design is flawed and limited. he's gotta think "outside his box" lol.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #109 on: July 23, 2008, 07:16:15 PM »
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Offline 4Tesla

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #110 on: July 23, 2008, 07:28:06 PM »
what pump make and model did he use?
how much PSI?
how many watts to power a pump like that?

i see where hes going with this but his over all design is flawed and limited. he's gotta think "outside his box" lol.

I don't know what pump he is using, but this one is close to what he used:
http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/EBARA-EPPD-3MS1-PRO-DRAINER-Manual-Sump-Pump-1-3-HP-1-x-115/10116/Cat/689

300 watts

Jason

Offline fritz

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #111 on: July 23, 2008, 10:15:21 PM »
Rewind:

Hardy mentions the maximum flow capacity "type of pump" as
turbine pump with 165Gallons/minute, thats 9900Gallons per hour.
This data as well as how it looks like identifies it as
CAL T10000 pump.
http://www.calpump.com/productsub.asp?modelno=T10000&category=5
Additional there is a datasheet available: see attachment below.

From the demonstration at the beginning, we see that the pump drains
the 20 Gallons of water in about 20 seconds.
Thats equal to a flow of 60GPH in this usecase - what equals 3600Gallons per
hour.
Because of the fact that the pump has to lift the water more than 1 meter - the
flow in the scenario later will be slightly higher - lets say 4000GPH minimum.

Now we take the datasheet and if you interpolate a bit - the powerconsumption
in such a case will be around 900 Watts.
According to the SI unit system 1kWh equals 3.6MJ of energy.
If this pump runs for an hour it needs 0.9kWh-> 3.24MJ of energy.

The water:
According to the video - I would say that the diameter of the water beam is
3/4 inch, 1.905cm. This gives a cross section of d^2*pi/4 of 2,85cm2.
If you divide 1000ccm by the cross section - you get the length of this
waterbeam which equals a kilogram = 1l. Thats 350cm.

The pump puts out 4000GPh-> thats 1.11 Gallons per second-> equals (x3.8)
-> 4.22 liter/second.
As we calculated before, 1l gives a water beam of 3.5 meter - this means that
if we have 4.22 liter/second - we have  14,78m/s speed of the water beam.

Because of the fact that the pump is not really lifting the water - maybe only
1-2ft in the video - we completly ignore the effects of potential energy here.

BTW: The pump somehow manages it that it accelerates every second 4.22liter
water to a speed of 14,78m/s.
This gives a kinetic energy from the water in the beam of
ekin = (m*v^2)/2 - thats (4.22N*14,78(m/s)^2)*0.5 = 460J per second
x 3600 seconds per hour ->1,66MJ that gives a cop of 0.51 (compared to the
3.54MJ electrical input power).

What happens if the flow would be 6000GPH ????
Electrical Power -> 1000W, 1kWh in an Hour -> 3,6MJ
Now we have 6.33 liter/s - and 22.16m/s
which gives: ___5.6____MJ and a cop of __1.55___ ..

Conclusion: it looks like the pump has at least a cop of 0.5.
And its really amazing how the kinetic energy rises with the
speed of water.






Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #111 on: July 23, 2008, 10:15:21 PM »
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Offline khabe

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #112 on: July 23, 2008, 10:35:39 PM »
Vacuity Nr.14

Belt wheel has  18" diameter, generator bulley 4"  , transmission 1:4,5 , losses appr. 5% ,
Waterwheel made used like the same 18% wheel,
Why waterwheel blades placed on the 18" diameter wheel - ??? - why not on the 4"  wheel - direct on the shaft of generator, saved 5%,
Why inventor wants to lose at least 5% of energy?
Is it some kind of ritual, like tantra, or immolation - driving away demons?

khabe

Offline fritz

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #113 on: July 23, 2008, 10:39:46 PM »
Another thing:

If we take the first example with 15m/s, 4000GPH.
If the water stream would oscillate - say working
in a 50% dutycycle with 30m/s 50% 0m/s 50%,
the resulting kinetic energy would be 3.5MJ -almost
COP =1. with the same flow we had before@cop=0.5.

(and if you listen to the video - there is lots of "noise"
form the water - doesn?t seem to be a constant flow)

That means that a turbulent flow has more energy.

The remaining question is how this turbulances couple
back to the pump- and how much extra energy is consumed
due to an oscillation in the flow.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #113 on: July 23, 2008, 10:39:46 PM »
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Offline BATMAN

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #114 on: July 23, 2008, 11:15:21 PM »
BATMAN ...HERE HI ALL

Here is pic of 10,000 watt gen. hook -up to turbine shaft.

have fun ...BATMAN


Offline khabe

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #115 on: July 23, 2008, 11:40:35 PM »
BATMAN ...HERE HI ALL

Here is pic of 10,000 watt gen. hook -up to turbine shaft.

have fun ...BATMAN



Amazing - exhaustive information !!!

Have look at http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/33roberts_files/index.html

Mr Jackson, unfortunately no reply to my modest question, hi has much more ideas!
He does the same like Selfrunning Waterpump-generator - with AIR !!!   
Attn: fritz - no wonder kinetics of water !!!  >:(
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/33roberts_files/Air_Generator_10-136063.html
He has very train of thought about how watermachine works:
"...Pressure from thrust of water coming from water pump through the water pump nozzle X-Amount of pressure on turbine that is attached to generator Torque created by turbine (which is being rotated by thrust of water from water pump) = X-Amount Generator converts torque into electricity which in turn runs the pump
1/6 of Torque = Horsepower
1 – Horsepower = 755 Watts
Watts ? Voltage = Amperage
I believe Amperage created by the Generator
will be greater than Amperage needed to run the pump."
 :o
Now its clear!   >:(
But he was not pleased with  - why to play with water or air? Why to play with pumps, why hoses, why all these stupid things ????   
And he did it!  No water, no hoses ...  :o
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/33roberts_files/Dynamoto_Electric_Generator_11-009798.html
final solution -> Dynamotor Electric Generator  :o
   
khabe   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #115 on: July 23, 2008, 11:40:35 PM »
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Offline robertjackson

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    • Self Powered Hydro Generator
Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #116 on: July 24, 2008, 02:12:46 AM »
@ Khabe  I don't have a working prototype but I like to think its because I never could afford the right componets (mainly generator). Your right after messing around with my hydro and air prototypes I thought why not just connect an electric motor directly to the generator. I came up with all sorts of combinations with different electric motors and different generators and alternators . I do believe that the right motor and generator could be developed to make this basic concept work. After doing everything I've done I think the high pressure water or air generators are the best way to go.  I personally have put everything on the back burner about 1 1/2 years ago after being dianose with a pretty serious medical condition and to be honest its got the best of me. Well anyway, I hope the best for anyone to build a working prototype and to go public with it. If this should happen I wouldn't doubt that some big corporation would come forward and claimed that they already own the patent rights and at the same time alot of people will probaly come out of the woodwork claiming the idea as there own. Personally I thought of the basics to the hydro generator in the late 70's but didn't start keeping a documented timeline until October of 2000 on my hydro, air, and solar ideas ( I have over 100 envelopes that I mailed to myself) There is a very interesting story in those envelopes. I actually believe these concepts are to basic in nature to be patented and I have tried to open source to ideas for over 5 years now. If anyone wants to patent something it should be a better generator, better pump,better motor, better turbine, or whatever it takes to make these concepts work.                                                                                                                                               

Offline tishatang

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #117 on: July 24, 2008, 06:49:03 AM »
@robertjackson and all

My two cents for what it's worth.

If you are going to match a motor with a generator, then do it with a direct coupling, not V-belts.  Use a 3450 rpm motor with a 3450 rpm rated generator, etc.
Why introduce extra losses.  Better yet, make it a motor/generator with no coupling losses.  See Dyna-Motor patent here:

http://www.rexresearch.com/alxandr/alexandr.htm

Download and read the patent where it is claimed 3 times output vs input.  According to Peter Lindemann, replications failed at the time the patents came out.

You are better off with the water pump scenario where you introduce momentum and velocity times mass with the accelerated water.  However, even if it does work, the water will heat up because of the work done to the water.  I have run small pumps, 1/15 hp  outputting 120 psi in a large aquarium sized tank.  The water will get quite hot after a while and requires a shutdown to prevent overheating of other parts of the system I was testing.  Of course you could always build two units and let one  rest half the time.

Tishatang



Offline 4Tesla

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #118 on: July 25, 2008, 07:26:47 AM »
Dear Mr. Jackson,

I hope you have not paid for electricity past 25 years - you have own Self Powered Hydro electric station  -  how many units you need per house and how many kw/h you have generated for these years?

Best regards,
khabe

PS:
4tesla wrote:
_"What is cool about this device is that it would be very easy to replicate.. only problem is money.  I don't think there is anything special about the generator."_
I can not agree!  How much money?  What is cost of one pump? $300? 500? What is cost of few meters of hose?  Very expensive playwood? No screws ...
No way to find generator? Or does it mean - FREE ENERGY - that all must to be done for nothing - nothing spent, nothing done - just pick your nose and get it free  ...





Well it is a problem for me.. I don't have $500 for the pump and generator.  Not everyone has hundreds or thousands of dollars to work on these projects.  Pick your nose if you can't think of anything nice to say... maybe it will help clear your brain.

Jason

Offline khabe

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Re: Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...
« Reply #119 on: July 25, 2008, 08:18:13 AM »
???
Was not meant to insult - just for give encouragement - to accelerate process ...
Get some loan - after that you have not to pay for electricity - you will sell it to all city  :o
Its Friday today - what's up about promised new setup?
khabe

 

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