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Hydrogen energy => Water arc energy systems => Topic started by: tishatang on July 13, 2008, 07:56:39 AM

Title: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: tishatang on July 13, 2008, 07:56:39 AM
@All
Since Gotoluc started his thread, we have learned a lot in a short time.  We learned that the water undergoes a state of change from a liquid to a gas by the ignition of a plasma spark.  The spark is triggered by high voltage and low voltage combined, releasing a radiant effect that relaxes the bonds of the molecules of water into a vapor by evidently the latent heat in the water itself.  It seems only the water in the near field of the spark is effected.  Knowing these things, how would we go about designing and ICE to run on water.  It turns out someone did all these things in 1972.  Go here and look at this patent with new eyes!

http://www.rexresearch.com/papp/2pappats.htm#4428193

Joseph Papp called it a Noble Gas motor, but it really is a water motor.  Look at the combustion chambers, four toroid cavities with the electrodes in the center.  Hermetically sealed to keep the gases and water in and not contaminate the crankcase.  High voltage and low voltage to the spark electrodes with extra modulation of AC in the megahertz range.  Plus additional magnetic coils to stress the water.  The two stroke motor uses the down stroke of one cylinder to prepare the firing of the upstroke cylinder.  The exhaust stays within the engine and is recycled.  There is only a brief mention of water mixed with mineral oil and chlorine.  The big emphasis is on the noble gas mixture as the fuel.  I am guessing the noble gas thing is smoke and mirrors because Papp knew the power was simply water and he wanted to keep that secret.  I am thinking he didn't know how to describe what was really happening, the Graneau Paper didn't come out until the late 1990's.  So, he invented a lot of extra things to put in the stew to convince the patent office and his investors his had a new type of nuclear process going on, and it was so complicated only he had the "magic" formula and keys to the secret.

The first patent mentions the water mix and the plasma spark and pretreating the water with 440 volts for six hours.  The second patent  1984 shown further down the page conveniently never mentions the water formula.

Those of you smarter than I am should look at this patent and separate BS from what is important to do to the water for our own engines.  There is always the possibility of a noble gas actually contributing to the power.  The radiant spark can change water to its next higher state of a gas.  Maybe it can also change a gas into a higher state, maybe a monatomic  form or something.  Maybe one of you with an engine can try sparking your test engine when it is filled with helium or orgon or neon or whatever is handy?

Anyway a lot of engineering and money went into this design.  There should be design clues to help us in our quest.

Tishatang

 
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: gotoluc on July 15, 2008, 04:16:51 PM
Hi Tishatang,

thank you for creating this excellent topic. You are wise to link Joseph Papp's Gas Motor with what we are doing since we will probably find out we will need a similar process in the end to make this work.

Joseph Papp past away some years ago but he had an assistant that went on his own after some dispute and he actually refined the Gas Motor to a new level. I had some video's of his work and I will go through an old hard drive to find them and upload them for everyone to see.

Please keep this topic going as it will be an important resource for us.

Luc

BTW, good topic title ;D
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: rapttor on July 15, 2008, 05:09:09 PM
There's some guys at a machine shop in I believe florida that have completely replicated Papp's engine design, and it works just as he said it did.
http://www.rohnermachine.com/index.html (http://www.rohnermachine.com/index.html)
http://www.pappengine.com/ (http://www.pappengine.com/)

thanks Tishatang for posting this subject

regards,
rapttor
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: broli on July 15, 2008, 06:10:21 PM
Gotta love how much mentioning of how complex this "magic" is on those pages. Knowing the principle a bit better now it's like knowing what's bs in that patent and what's not. It's a lovely feeling.
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: wavez on July 15, 2008, 06:40:36 PM
Very neat. I was not familiar with the Papp engine before now.

@ Tishatang, you mention a paper by Peter Graneau. Do you have a link for this?
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: zapper on July 16, 2008, 05:26:08 AM
Hi,

@Tishatang : Thanks for making the right connections

Maybe charging the water before it goes into the engine plays a very significant part in the energy release process. 

Maybe this is what Steve Ryan from Newzland did with his "mystery box" before using the water in his motorbike.  This along with the minor modification to the carburrator and the ignition system might be just what is needed to run our engines on water.

Regards,

Zapper
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: jeanna on July 16, 2008, 05:54:15 AM
Very neat. I was not familiar with the Papp engine before now.

@ Tishatang, you mention a paper by Peter Graneau. Do you have a link for this?

Since he has not replied, I will suggest the following link

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/index.html (http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/index.html)

About 2/3 of the way down the very long page is a section on papers. (It follows the section with patents)

paper 2 and 4 are by graneau.

I hope this helps.

jeanna
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: tishatang on July 16, 2008, 07:45:00 AM
@jenna
Thanks for stepping up to the plate for me and answering.  I am in China behind their firewall.  Besides the time difference, I cannot access many sites.  Sometimes I cannot access this site, and I have to wait.  I can not access the Rohnermachine site.  I connected the dots between the Papp engine and the water for fuel engine and wanted to bring it to everyones attention.

Here is the link I have for the Graneau papers:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=get93

Anyone, please feel free to jump in on any part of this thread.  I am not an expert, but have general knowledge to see the process.  If anyone is having a problem in their own design, possibly that problem has been overcome somewhere in the Papp patents.  I did contact a representative of the Papp engine because I felt the secret was the water.  I was anxious for them to try it with just water alone without all the complications if they still had  an engine?  I didn't get very far.  Their answer was on insisting it is a nuclear fusion process and I was wrong in my conclusions.  They say soon they will get the engine running.  I wished them well and look forward to its revival.

This is how I look at the situation.  If it is a nuclear fusion engine, it will be years, if ever ,to see this technology powering our homes or automobiles.
If Peter Graneau is right, then we have a water engine already designed by papp.  Currently, the people surrounding the Papp engine are very top level PHD types, not the poor common people like you and me that need a water for fuel engine now!

It never made sense to me that a relatively uneducated immigrant could come this continent and be smarter than all these PHDs?  After all these years we have yet to see it run publicly.  What makes sense to me is that Papp probably was playing around with an plasma spark for a regular ICE.  He noticed the crankshaft jump maybe from the explosion of the moisture in the air in the unfueled chamber.  Wondering what caused that, he next starting exploring the gases that are naturally in the air including water vapor.  If noble gases are involved, there had to be some small effect observed with each gas.  There had to be some evolutionary  process that would lead to the complexity of the patents.  It could also be that all the hired big PHD's tried to explain it from their intellect and invented the complexity to get a patent with a running engine.  The Graneau theories did not exist at the time of the patents.

I wish everyone good luck in their experiments

Tishatang
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: Shiver on July 16, 2008, 09:20:57 AM
Maybe a mix of noble gasses can be compressed to liquid without too much compression (no idea, never looked), and so stay as a gas once exploded, whereas water returns to its water state too quickly.  There may be better liquids than water that could do this.  It wouldn't really matter what since it can be a closed loop.
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: Spider on July 16, 2008, 03:59:26 PM
Haha that would be nice, take a regular car engine, take the exhaust off, and make a hose from the exhaust manifold directly to the intake manifold. If it is running on hho then the water in the exhaust gasses would be reused directly as fuel again. You dont even need a turbo charger....Only add a HV spark!

Greetings Spider,

Vroom vroom... ;D
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: resonanceman on July 17, 2008, 05:59:41 AM
Haha that would be nice, take a regular car engine, take the exhaust off, and make a hose from the exhaust manifold directly to the intake manifold. If it is running on hho then the water in the exhaust gasses would be reused directly as fuel again. You dont even need a turbo charger....Only add a HV spark!

Greetings Spider,

Vroom vroom... ;D


Spider

It is not  quite that simple

The  way you  wrote  it ........it sounds like you  are thinking  of  recycling  the  exhaust  to the same  cylinder .
It  can't  work   using the same cylinder
The phase    is wrong  .     

If you    use  2 cylinders  90  degrees out of  phase ........   you end up  with a  sterling engine .   
You  would need   a new manifold to  direct  the air   back and forth  between  the  cylinders 
No  valves would  be needed

To make it more efficient    heat  collectors  should  be put in the  manifold

I  see no reason  that  a   constant  arc  would not work .



Making  a water arc  sterling  is  on my to do list .





gary
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: nightlife on July 17, 2008, 08:32:52 AM
I had came across this before and I was asked to find it again and I have not been able to. This is that motor and I too believe it is and or can be ran off water.

 Here is the video I seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Ztw0nYVS0

 Thank you for starting this thread.
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: tishatang on July 17, 2008, 11:43:20 AM
@resonanceman
It might be easier to convert a two cylinder air compressor head.  You can get an inline or V-2 replacement from harborfreight.com pretty cheap.  You could rig up a regular induction motor as a starter with a sprague clutch to disengage once it fires up.  As I recall, you can run a three phase motor on regular single phase AC.  You need to use a capacitor across the third coil.  If you get it to run, the third coil can be supplied with DC from the battery and it becomes a generator.  Then you wouldn't need the sprague clutch and you would have a home power plant if all goes well.

@nightlife
Here is another link to a Papp video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kQ9MdoKT7I

If you read through the 1972 patent, it goes into detail about first filling the chamber with de-oxygenated water (deionized?).  Then adding chlorine to saturation and displacing more and more water, with the noble gases.  The 1984 patent never mentions the water pre-charging process.  It just references the earlier patent.  It seems to me, water is the biggest proportion of fuel in the combustion chambers when all is said and done.  A lot of detail is about mixing the gases in the special holding chambers.  These gases are not in direct contact with the water/gas combo in the working combustion chamber..  To me this is a water engine with lots of diversion going on with what's really happening.  Lots of places to hide a simple diode to convert regular spark vs plasma spark as per latest Peter video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlMELbK8zDQ

Tishatang
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: pese on July 20, 2008, 03:51:20 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2850891179207690407  PAPP
http://www.rexresearch.com/papp/1papp.htm  Papp Noble Gaz Motor Patent
http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kQ9MdoKT7I  Papp Noble Gas
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: pese on July 20, 2008, 05:10:16 PM

http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2008/03/15/joseph-papps-inert-noble-gas-engine/

http://www.americanantigravity.com/documents/The-Mystery-and-Legacy-of-Joseph-Papp.pdf

http://www.americanantigravity.com/documents/The-Mystery-and-Legacy-of-Joseph-Papp.pdf

http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.energy.hydrogen/2006-09/msg00082.html

http://panacea-bocaf.org/files/TopTen.pdf
  Here PAPP the lastone (8) !!

http://www.web-space.tv/free-energy/
http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Joseph_Papp's_Noble_Gas_Engine

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Academy:Video_of_Jimmy_Sabori's_Papp_Engine_Variants
http://pesn.com/Radio/Free_Energy_Now/shows/2006/11/25/9700216_Papp_Engine/
http://www.rexresearch.com/papp/1papp.htm


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Papp
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Inventors/JosephPapp/index.html
http://rohnermachine.com/Files/joecellfmessages.pdf
http://makeyourdepth.blogspot.com/2005/10/who-was-josef-papp.html
http://www.rexresearch.com/papp/2pappats.htm
http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2008/03/15/joseph-papps-inert-noble-gas-engine/
http://www.web-space.tv/free-energy/Chapter8.pdf
Noble Gas Motors (AEROPS Engine)  Britt, Robert Gordon  seach this !!
=====================================================================

http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Inventors/JosephPapp/index.html
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: nightlife on July 20, 2008, 07:08:13 PM
 tishatang, I believe a lot of information has been left out and that would be due to suppression.

pese, thank you for that collection of videos and articles.


 The video that tishatang provided, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlMELbK8zDQ proves how water can be reused and that shows us how papps design can work.

 When the water is ignited, it will create a vapor that expands and then immediately compress back into water creating a suction.

 We are on the right track and we need to start testing this effect in a cylinder to see what the results would be.

 
 
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: gotoluc on July 20, 2008, 09:52:12 PM
Thanks pese for posting all these video links.

Jimmy Sabori's system was the video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2850891179207690407  I was talking about that I had saved on one of my hard drives but I could not find it.

Luc
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: khabe on July 20, 2008, 11:18:45 PM
: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2850891179207690407
What it is? Rave?  Huge lot of surplus stuff !!! Did you see old small oscilloscope tube "installed" near one of wonder-machines, he named it otherwise but ok, does not matter ;-) ... many chemistry things,  baby in red jacket. Why these grand coils on the old engines and why this tattle about 400 hp ? ... Why nobody can help? No Doctor in radius of 400 miles?
Why every time when "open doors in secret laboratory" they use broken toy camera and no lightings when showing breakthrough engines and else novel things? None in full city who can make correct video?
Or it was some kind of joke I hope,
Some black humor,
Im sorry,
khabe
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: pese on July 21, 2008, 12:01:32 AM
Thanks pese for posting all these video links.

Jimmy Sabori's system was the video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2850891179207690407  I was talking about that I had saved on one of my hard drives but I could not find it.

Luc
The best that i seen 4 years ago, is not mor in WEB , also not in archive.org. possibly some destructive groups was
interested to delete the best shown description from publicity
GP
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: nightlife on July 21, 2008, 12:06:03 AM
The six noble gases that occur naturally are helium (He), neon (Ne), argon (Ar), krypton (Kr), xenon (Xe), and the radioactive radon (Rn). So far, three atoms of the next member of the group, ununoctium (Uuo) have been synthesized in a supercollider, but very little is known of its properties due to tiny amount produced and its short half-life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_gas
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: resonanceman on July 21, 2008, 12:13:58 AM
tishatang

Using  a  compressor   sounds like  a great idea .

It  could make  a reasonable sterling   if the   heads  were  replaced with  a manifold between them .


It  could also be   used to  test   the  other ideas here  .........    the  flywheel could be  drilled   and a VERY  small  neo magnet  put in each   side ........     hall  affect switches  could then  be used  for  timing.


gary
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: pese on July 21, 2008, 12:25:40 AM
nightlive
Papp have let us know 3 from this gase tat he have used.

all

to search over this invention . Britt and rober gordon have also worked over that
noble gas motors.
over this , i find very easy to following
gas motor  "ammonia"

possibly that ist the source of all following inventions:

see here:
:  http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/POWER/ammonia/ammonia.htm
Robert Gordon
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: tishatang on August 08, 2008, 09:32:55 AM
@Pese and All

I have found the Britt Noble Gas engine patent # 3,977,191

Go here and type in 3977191 :

http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl

Notice in the patent we also have high voltage and low voltage coming together with a dedicated ground electrode in the chamber.  This patent talks about the photon release and self concentration of the effect with mirrored combustion walls.  This patent was granted in Aug 1976.  Britt complained the patent office dragged its feet allowing a corporate entity to file earlier.  Was this corporate entity Papp or some unknown mega corp like GE?  Papp was working on his engine in the late 1960's.  His patent granted in 1972 with a working model.  It is unknown if the Britt patent had a working model.  Because it is so unusual, you think there would have to be a working model.  Or, perhaps Papp laid the groundwork for a Noble Gas engine?

Their seems to be some intrigue with this Britt story and patent.  Robert Gordon Britt is not a common name.  If you do a search, his name comes up for counterfeiting $50 bills and an appeal for conviction in Florida and an appeal for double jeopardy  in North Carolina.  This has to be the same man as the patent shows him to be in North Carolina.  One or two conclusions might be reached.  One,the guy is a crook, heard about Papp and tried to get something patented ahead of him?  Or two, he is a genius and had something and was framed by the feds putting counterfeit plates in his possession?  His device is much simpler than the Papp device.  Maybe someone can research Britt.  I have limited access behind the China firewall.

Tishatang


Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: gotoluc on August 08, 2008, 05:56:57 PM
Thanks :D Tishatang for this new information.

Luc
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: gotoluc on August 15, 2008, 10:10:10 PM
@everyone, I did manage to find the tests I was talking about of Jimmy Sabori's Papp Engine on his video. They are at the 49 minute mark. The video is here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2850891179207690407

I we can find the effect with what we are doing.

I keep looking for the green light ball effect since I found my circuit.

Notice in the pictures below that the Green light anomaly happens away from the spark event.

Luc

Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: tishatang on August 16, 2008, 04:05:16 AM
@Luc
Thanks for the hard work and observations.  Am I correct in that you and Sabori did not see the green ball directly, but only after looking at the video frames?  Evidently it is too fast for the eye to capture?  My feeling is that the external green ball is a nuclear event.  Maybe some atomic particle is driven out of the cylinder at high speed and collides with another particle in the near external field?  To me, it seems the piston goes down regardless of the external green ball?
I would think it would be better to contain the green ball within the cylinder chamber.  The metal of the engine would act as a shield against radiation.  Would the detector you are going to build reveal nuclear radiation?

Maybe this is the reason for the large coils around the cylinders, to contain and direct the energy in the direction of the piston travel?  The coils are energized only during the firing stroke in the Papp patents.  As you develop your test setup, you may at some point energize a coil around the cylinder and see what happens.  Also, there is a superimposed high frequency in the megahertz range.  The coils and high frequency are mentioned in the later engine Papp patent.  I do not have the ability to print out the patents where I am, so I can not study them in detail.

Tishatang
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: gotoluc on August 16, 2008, 10:05:52 AM
Deleted by gotoluc
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: gotoluc on August 16, 2008, 07:37:36 PM
@Luc
Thanks for the hard work and observations.  Am I correct in that you and Sabori did not see the green ball directly, but only after looking at the video frames?  Evidently it is too fast for the eye to capture?  My feeling is that the external green ball is a nuclear event.  Maybe some atomic particle is driven out of the cylinder at high speed and collides with another particle in the near external field?  To me, it seems the piston goes down regardless of the external green ball?
I would think it would be better to contain the green ball within the cylinder chamber.  The metal of the engine would act as a shield against radiation.  Would the detector you are going to build reveal nuclear radiation?

Maybe this is the reason for the large coils around the cylinders, to contain and direct the energy in the direction of the piston travel?  The coils are energized only during the firing stroke in the Papp patents.  As you develop your test setup, you may at some point energize a coil around the cylinder and see what happens.  Also, there is a superimposed high frequency in the megahertz range.  The coils and high frequency are mentioned in the later engine Papp patent.  I do not have the ability to print out the patents where I am, so I can not study them in detail.

Tishatang

Hi tishatang, sorry for the late reply. Yes, they say that they don't see the green light ball when looking at the spark and can only be seen on the video. It would seem it is too fast for the eye and mind to capture.

What I think is going on, is the spark event creates a disturbance in our time continuum which opens a hole and that is what we see as the green light. So I don't know if we can contain that green light event since it may not be from this dimension. I think the coil around the cylinder is to create a strong magnetic field within the cylinder which has an effect on the gases. I will test this later with my sealed clear Lexan piston and cylinder test engine.

For now I am back working on my lawn mower engine with gasoline fumes and water vapor tests. I think we can creat the GEET effect right in the combustion chamber which would be an easy mod for regular car engines to cut down fuel use by 50% or more. Once I'm done testing and sharing that I will resume the build on the sealed clear Lexan engine.

Luc
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: gotoluc on August 16, 2008, 11:50:53 PM
Deleted by gotoluc
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: NETIKS on August 17, 2008, 12:19:04 AM
Green Light ...Maybe its aperance of the x-rays
all the best
-netiks-
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: gotoluc on August 17, 2008, 11:46:32 PM
@everyone,

Sorry to say but the light ball Anomaly that I found ended up being an artifact made by the video camera I used.

I removed the 2 Youtube videos relating to the study of the effect and I also edited out information and or deleted posts referring to this effect since I do not want future readers to read information just to find in the end that it is not correct.

Sorry for the camera glitch.

Luc
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: Johan_1955 on October 26, 2008, 06:09:33 PM
Hello Great People,

Maybe "Tishatang" is even more close than I/we want to see, imagen a cilinder not with a positive pressure but with a far negative pressure, this after being flushed with 5 ideal inert gasses, and they also left a few drops off water behind.

In a 2 cilinder of 400 hp, we will need far more than only a pos.-pressure explosion, also the Negative Back-Force (EMF)!! We are working with this and now forgetting it? To make this power (the mentioned 400 hp) possible in just and only a 2 cilinder, we need also to contract with force: So dream we have an engine not filled with pressure, like above: a 2 cilinder engine, pistons 180 degrees off-set, not filled with a positive pressure but with a negative pressure/vacuum, this after being flushed with 5 ideal inert gasses, and they also left a few drops off water behind.

Ideal for igniting, far less spark or power needed to maintain the plasma going for the than pressure down-stroke, heat done with DC dan contracting with AC, bringing force-full back->up the vacuum back and coolness in the cilinder.

Maybe a try, just a container filled/flushed with a bit Argon of the TIG, sucking side off compressor and than well you know.

Johan
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: Sprocket on October 27, 2008, 04:50:56 AM
Hmmm, having just watched the Sabori video, it would appear that he never actually got the thing to run - in the first half there are performance specs quoted, implying that they had a 'runner', but in the second half, and using the same video footage, it is stated that the 2-cylinder engine was a non-runner (development model) and what you actually see 'running' is just the "bottom half" to demonstrate it worked - which is probably being powered by a motor - that's misleading!  At least that's my reading of it!  Rohner insists as much on this website.  A wasted 200meg download, plus 60min watch-time imo...

It's also almost 15 years since the video...
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: tishatang on September 24, 2009, 01:43:29 PM
Hi All

Update here on Rohner noble gas motor:

http://pesn.com/2009/09/21/9501575_Rohner_noble_gas_motor_update/

They have gotten further than I thought they would.  I wish them well and all described is true.

tishatang
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: Cloxxki on September 24, 2009, 02:53:21 PM
Interesting, isn't it?
Does anyone see how Tommey Reed's ratchet engine design would instantly improve efficiency of these sketced engine by a factor of 3 or 4? Same setup, but ditching the crank shaft.
How would such efficiency boost, if viable, effect its inherent operation?
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: tishatang on November 26, 2009, 08:56:43 AM
Another update here of noble gas engine-New patent

http://pesn.com/2009/11/21/9501589_PlasmERG_Noble_Gas_Engine_Patent_Accepted/
Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: wings on December 09, 2009, 01:18:13 PM
plasma igniter patent 4122816 NASA see the plasma toroid

http://www.google.com/patents?id=szA2AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false

.... Ken Shoulder EVO electrons cluster

Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: tishatang on December 30, 2009, 09:48:55 AM
Hi All,
I think this was posted once in another thread with no response.  I think it got lost in the noise?  Could things really be this easy with a microwave hack on a lawn mower engine.  I post again showing the source from Gene Mallove:


"Someone sent me a hard copy of this and I transcribed it. May make for some
fun experiments connected with cavitation, steam, and O-U.

Gene Mallove
*********************************


From: Pat_Pelletier@mindlink.bc.ca (Pat Pelletier)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: PUBLIC DISCLOSURE - NEW INVENTION
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 95 10:54:05 - 0700
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada


I am posting the following for a friend who does NOT have access to Internet.
Comments welcomed.

NOTICE

The prupose of this notice is to place into public domain something which I
invented so that it may be patented and in order to prevent it's use from
being restricted in any way.

The device is an engine in which small quantitites of water are turned into
steam by the use of a magnetron (as found in microwave ovens).

Interested parties may wish to try this test: Place a few drops of water into
a clear plastic 35mm film roll holder and put the cap on the film roll holder.
 Place in a microwave oven and turn the oven on. The 'pop' is the result of
the water turning suddenly into steam.

The engine I have invented is far more efficient than any other steam engine
because the efficiency of the magnetron in turning water into steam.  In fact,
the water droplet 'explodes' very much like air/gasoline explodes in a
conventional internal combustion engine.

This engine was first tested in 1992.  I am however unable to invest the
required capital to produce a more sophisticated model and therefore unable to
patent it.  Even though I may not be able to profit from this technology, it
is too good to be kept to myself and I would like to spread it around so that
others may be able to use it.

The following is an outline of how to construct the device and a few cautions:

PARTS NEEDED:

1. Magnetron from medium power microwave oven.

2. Small 4-stroke single cylinder lawn mover engine or similar engine with
'old style' points and ignition system.

3.  Automotive alternator with built-in rectifier and regulator, also a 12
volt auto battery.

4. "Trigger" mechanism from an aircraft "strobe" landing light.

INSTRUCTIONS:

1. The magnetron fits into the spark plug hole.

2. The distributor points are modified so that the contact is closed when the
piston is at the top dead center and this contact is used to activate the
aircraft strobe mechanism.

3.  The high voltage from the strobe is connected to directly fire the
magnetron which in turn produces steam which moves the piston.

4. The engine turns the alternator which keeps the battery charged, which
supplies the electrical power for the magnetron.

CAUTION AND TIPS:

WARNING!!! DANGER!!!!

1. Be careful around the magnetron. KEEP IT SHIELDED WITH METAL.  IT CAN CAUSE
SEVERE BURNS THAT MAY NOT BE READILY VISIBLE WHEN THEY FIRST OCCUR.

2. The 'strobe' trigger delivers a very high voltage which can jump to ground.
WEAR RUBBER SOLED SHOES AND INSULATE WELL.

3. Be sure to modify the distributor points so they close at the top dead
center. Timing advance depends on the power of the magnetron used and the
amount of water. Try different carb jet sizes -- drill out if needed.

4. Due to variables, don't expect high engine speeds without a little
experimentation due to variables.

5. Start with a fully charged battery or your alternator won't work.

6. The energy produced is in excess of the power required to run the
alternator but until you get the RPM up, and the parts wrking in harmony, it
may be best to use a battery charger instead of an alternator.

7. An easy way to measure net power output after you have the alternator on
line is to run a few 12 volt lights from the battery.  You will see that the
battery stays charged even with the lights on and the motor keeps on going.

8.  Although I have not tried it, the idea of vaporizing water with microwaves
should also work well in a converted turbine.

SPREAD THIS TECHNOLOGY - IT IS FREE!!

PRINT THIS BEFORE IT IS DELETED FROM THE NET!

MY CODE FOR FUTURE IDENTIFICATION IS PANGURBAN"

Title: Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED
Post by: buttbite on June 08, 2011, 08:35:20 PM
The Plasmic patent application is posted here http://www.rohnermachine.com/pagedocuments.html
We believe Dr. John Rohner to be a complete scam. The actual builder of all engines you find operating any where on the web were constructed by Bob & Tom Rohner.
Be sure to watch the progress and historical videos while you are there.

One more thing, Papp's earlier patent #3670494 mentions a different fuel mixture involving water so you fellows may be hitting on all four.