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### Author Topic: Infinity Coil  (Read 152706 times)

#### forest

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4045
##### Re: Infinity Coil
« Reply #165 on: January 08, 2009, 08:37:06 AM »
Let's talk about AC motors.I need help to understand them, so please bear with me.Assume that I have a motor with two separate circuits, each of them is consisted of 4 coils. That two circuits are pulsed sequentially.
Inside motor then is a rotor with 4 electromagnets or neo magnets.Is that a 2 phase AC motor ?

Do circuits here produce rotating magnetic field ?
What would happen if I replace a rotor with a coil ? What I could measure on coil ?

#### forest

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4045
##### Re: Infinity Coil
« Reply #166 on: January 08, 2009, 05:29:01 PM »
I don't understand clearly your example. Could you please describe how do you think those separate circuits connected?

Conventional two phase AC motor, is constructed by two separate windings 90degree out of phase to each other, one drive by constant AC , other by variable voltage AC for control.
(...)

I'm curious about it.What does '90 degree out of phase' mean ? Does it mean that  in one circuit current is maximum when in  other is minimum ? Do you have a simulation of such two phase AC motor magnetic fields ? Can you post a link to schematic of such motor ?

#### forest

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4045
##### Re: Infinity Coil
« Reply #167 on: January 08, 2009, 06:48:41 PM »
Exactly, if  the phase difference is 90degree, the current in on coil will be on the minimum, when the other is at maximum. The phase difference simple mean, difference in magnetic vector position. If we talk about 90 degree, that mean one coil will be parallel with magnetic field lines,at the same moment other will be at 90degree. As you can see, in the Tesla picture, in my previous post, where at fig1 B and B' coils are exactly 90 degree to each other.
You can find here info about poly phase motors, phase difference, etc: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_13/7.html

I guess this picture is missing point c'  Anyway , I'm starting to grasp the situation here. Is that picture about one phase AC motor , because of one difference in phase or I guessed wrongly ?

#### forest

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4045
##### Re: Infinity Coil
« Reply #168 on: January 08, 2009, 07:36:53 PM »
Sorry Chef, my mistake I didn't understood when motor is 2 phases AC.Now I see that it depends on count of pairs of circuits or count of AC signals powering motor.

Now I understand it better yet my knowledge is very limited of course.
I have a question about rotor , because it seems strange for me. I comprehended I hope , that there is induced large current in rotor closed circuit by similar manner as in Faraday homopolar dynamo. That current I was told generate opposing magnetic rotating field which synchronize and propel rotor against stator.

Do I correctly understood the principle of brushless AC motor ?

Please bear with me , maybe I will have something to share also but first I must understand completly why and was something really here which was overlooked.Is it possible we are looking for something which is here for more then 120 years and require only slight modification of modern day common device

#### nueview

• Full Member
• Posts: 163
##### Re: Infinity Coil
« Reply #169 on: January 08, 2009, 07:44:48 PM »
forest
i can easily understand your confusion about phase and cycles so let me see if i can help here some to clear up the misconseption about the two.
a cycle is one rotation of electrical energy a single circle drawn along a line it appears to be a wave form and the number of times it rises and falls in one second gives frequency.
phase on the other hand has to do with the number of cycles produced per one rotation ( however speed of the generater can be reduced by generating multiple cycles per rotation this is usually determined by the number of magnetic poles on the rotor) and can become quite confusing because of how motors are wound so let me try to explain.
draw a circle and a verticle line in it for the rotor put an arrow at one end of it now divide your circle in half and as you would rotate your arrow clockwise everycoil or strand of wire you cross in that half of the circle will rise and fall in a positive direction while the other half is going negative. this would be one cycle per revolution. having a single phase.
if you divide the circle into four parts and have two magnets you would get two cycles per revolution and still be single phase.but this can be made to be untrue by changing wire wind direction and yes you could develope two phase power out as having a positive and negative going wave at the same time .
if you divide your circle into three parts and your magnet is rotated you will derive what is called three phase power if you just asume every thing to the right of your arrow is rising and everything to the left is falling .
hope this helps as it really is as clear as mud when looking at some motor windings as they can get pretty exotic and bazarre at times.

#### forest

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4045
##### Re: Infinity Coil
« Reply #170 on: January 08, 2009, 08:02:00 PM »
nueview,

I have always had  problems with phase, but fortunately the difference of phase between two AC currents are quite easy to display in schematic. I think I will never understand it completely but the point is that here are other issues more important to look for. Because I'm not electrician I must work out hard to understand some obvious facts but that let me ask important questions also due to my ignorance I think ;-)

The first thing I did was to look at wikipedia for description of AC motors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_motor

I stuck at 'Squirrel-cage rotors'  topic and read :
"Most common AC motors use the squirrel cage rotor, which will be found in virtually all domestic and light industrial alternating current motors. The squirrel cage takes its name from its shape - a ring at either end of the rotor, with bars connecting the rings running the length of the rotor. It is typically cast aluminum or copper poured between the iron laminates of the rotor, and usually only the end rings will be visible. The vast majority of the rotor currents will flow through the bars rather than the  and usually varnished laminates. Very low voltages at very high currents are typical in the bars and end rings; high efficiency motors will often use cast copper in order to reduce the resistance in the rotor."

I was absolutely astonishing fact.How so ? Very high current, and yet we are not reusing them ?
What if I could replace a rotor with a kind of coil ? Surely it would be not OU device but could I regain all electric power back ?

Second astounding find :
"Furthermore, a stalled squirrel cage motor (overloaded or with a jammed shaft) will consume current limited only by circuit resistance as it attempts to start. Unless something else limits the current (or cuts it off completely) overheating and destruction of the winding insulation is the likely outcome"

Could you explain me how the stalled rotor would force current in stator to rise so much ? it's kind of magic voodoo for me

#### forest

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4045
##### Re: Infinity Coil
« Reply #171 on: January 08, 2009, 08:07:50 PM »
Here is one very good simulation: http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph14hu/generator_hu.htm Language is not English, but with some try,you could fully understand how AC voltage is induced in that generator. You could switch the commutator on, and you will see, how AC voltage would be full rectified.

I think, the most overlooked, and not fully understood part is the simple high self inductance coil, so you could be right, everything is around us long ago.

I think I know what we overlooked.Good understanding of Lenz law and Faraday unipolar dynamo. More later, I have much to learn...

#### forest

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4045
##### Re: Infinity Coil
« Reply #172 on: January 08, 2009, 08:10:37 PM »
nueview,

I have always had  problems with phase, but fortunately the difference of phase between two AC currents are quite easy to display in schematic. I think I will never understand it completely but the point is that here are other issues more important to look for. Because I'm not electrician I must work out hard to understand some obvious facts but that let me ask important questions also due to my ignorance I think ;-)

The first thing I did was to look at wikipedia for description of AC motors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_motor

I stuck at 'Squirrel-cage rotors'  topic and read :
"Most common AC motors use the squirrel cage rotor, which will be found in virtually all domestic and light industrial alternating current motors. The squirrel cage takes its name from its shape - a ring at either end of the rotor, with bars connecting the rings running the length of the rotor. It is typically cast aluminum or copper poured between the iron laminates of the rotor, and usually only the end rings will be visible. The vast majority of the rotor currents will flow through the bars rather than the  and usually varnished laminates. Very low voltages at very high currents are typical in the bars and end rings; high efficiency motors will often use cast copper in order to reduce the resistance in the rotor."

I was absolutely astonishing fact.How so ? Very high current, and yet we are not reusing them ?
What if I could replace a rotor with a kind of coil ? Surely it would be not OU device but could I regain all electric power back ?

Second astounding find :
"Furthermore, a stalled squirrel cage motor (overloaded or with a jammed shaft) will consume current limited only by circuit resistance as it attempts to start. Unless something else limits the current (or cuts it off completely) overheating and destruction of the winding insulation is the likely outcome"

Could you explain me how the stalled rotor would force current in stator to rise so much ? it's kind of magic voodoo for me

Hmm, did I got it right ? Stalled motor will raise current dissipation from AC power  source ? Or maybe it's all because or cumulation of rotating magnetic field effect from stator on stalled rotor ?

#### nueview

• Full Member
• Posts: 163
##### Re: Infinity Coil
« Reply #173 on: January 08, 2009, 09:45:42 PM »
forest

check your e-mail on this site these posts should be left for the topic at hand namely the infinity coil.

#### forest

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4045
##### Re: Infinity Coil
« Reply #174 on: January 08, 2009, 11:52:57 PM »
OK.My questions are moved here : http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6512.new#new

Sorry for disturbing thread I thought it's related, but seems that my argumentation is too long..

#### nueview

• Full Member
• Posts: 163
##### Re: Infinity Coil
« Reply #175 on: January 09, 2009, 08:49:15 PM »
z monkey

charlie_v wrote a reply in the AC motor questions thread and you may want to read it as perhaps the connection to the infinity coil is no connection but rather standing waves just a thought. don't know what you have tried and haven't.

• Newbie
• Posts: 4
##### Re: Infinity Coil
« Reply #176 on: January 11, 2009, 03:56:42 PM »
hi,
everyone.........i am new here.