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Author Topic: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08  (Read 152668 times)

CLaNZeR

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #90 on: July 12, 2008, 07:09:34 PM »
If the "wall" shows to be too much of a problem, would you consider firing the magnets with some sort of electromagnet/ microswitch setup? This would bring in external power source for testing but later could be generated by the wheel itself.

If you fire two Coils each revolution, there is no way you will re-gain the energy you just used to power those coils.

If you are going for a pulse motor, then you are better off going for a heavy flywheel that has a long wind down time, then pulse it once every so many hundred revolutions. This way you might just get enough energy back from the spinning wheel to do the next pulse of the coil.

If you can get a self running gravity wheel, then it may take a long time at slow RPM's to charge anything up, but atleast you are not having to use any of that power gained to keep it running.

Cheers

Sean.


broli

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #91 on: July 12, 2008, 07:26:30 PM »
Nice to see you in here dudeman750,  (He's been my best friend for 20 years or so.  Initially thought I was crazy when I told him I had solved the world's energy crisis)

Everyone understand that the "wall" force will not increase even if we double or triple the diameter of the set up so we can hang more weight on it? 

She'll run eventually if not on this diameter.

Dudeman750 just wants to skip ahead to the electromagnets that eliminate the wall altogether.

Agreed but you'll need the right variables. So if it doesn't run it might be because of some variable not being in sync with the rest.

mondrasek

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #92 on: July 12, 2008, 08:23:28 PM »
Clanzer,

In theory (using superconducting materials), when you excite an electtomagnetic coil the current rushes into the coil and stops once the magnetic field is saturated, right?  When the coil is disconnected from the power source the magnetic field collapses through the coil windings (back EMF) sending the current back the way it initially came.  Can this current not be reclaimed so that a loss-less device is created (again assuming superconducting circutry and wires)? 

This is just theory on my part since the last Electrical Engineering class I took was 20+ years ago.  But if true in theory, the only energy we would need to bleed off of the Gravity Motor output to run this circuit would be to replace the real world current losses due to resistance.

Haven't had any of my Electrical Engineer friends give me the answer to this one.  What do you think/know?

M.

mondrasek

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #93 on: July 12, 2008, 08:34:10 PM »
The electromagnets do not accelerate the wheel.  They only replace the stator magnets and fire the perminant mass switch magnets up their respective guide tubes.  This should eliminate the "wall" alltogether.

We have plenty of power to work the electromagnets.  You can always scale the diameter of the wheel up and add more mass switches to create larger output torque = generated electricity.  Complete scalability is one of the beauties of this design.  The question is:

Does replacing the "wall" associated with the perminant magnet stator magnets with the power drain of electromagnets and a firing circuit for stator magnets create more or less efficient conversion of Gravity to power?  I think ultimately the electromagnets will be more efficient (again, I am hesitant about my electro-magnetic theory recall).

Anyone else care to weigh in on the electromagnet stator magnet possiblities?

Thanks,

M.

mondrasek

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #94 on: July 12, 2008, 08:35:39 PM »
Either way, the perminant magnet stator magnets are the way to go for a first build.  Electromagnet stator replacements are just topic for discussion at this time IMHO.

TinselKoala

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #95 on: July 12, 2008, 08:37:54 PM »
(rolls on the floor laughing)
So now we are reinventing the Bedini motor, or any number of devices that attempt to capture and use BEMF.

mondrasek, have you done very much reading about the topics you are discussing?

Because it seems like you are "discovering" ideas that have already been discovered and explored, and there are actually threads on this very site that discuss all of them that you have come up with so far.

Next you will propose using the electrical output of your (non-existent) generator to electrolyze water so that we can run our cars on it.

But this idea, too, has been out there for a long time.

(It is actually extremely difficult to come up with a genuinely new and original idea. SO don't feel too badly when you learn that yours, well, just aren't.)

So, so far we have a Besseler-Quinn-Bedini wheel. Let's add some more stuff. If you rotate the stator mags at the right time, in the opposite direction from the way they would rotate if they were simply geared, the rotor will experience a push-pull as the rotor magnets swing past the stators. Conversely, this same effect could be achieved with a reversing (not just an on-off) electromagnet.
So we would be building a Besseler-Quinn-Bedini-OCMPMM wheel.

mondrasek

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #96 on: July 12, 2008, 08:45:42 PM »
TinselKoala,

I am still not proposing to use the magnets in any way to propel this motor.  Gravity does all the work.  I am proposing using an electromagnet to move the magnets in each mass switch up (at 6 and 12 o-clock) in a more efficient manner than using the perminent magnets we can all see are able to accomplish this in Clanzer's videos.

Off course the pulsing electromagnet stator magnet designs would not be 100% efficient.  But would they be more efficent than having to overcome the wall in a perminant magnet?

I don't know if re-capturing BEMF from an electromagnet is possible or not.  That was my question.  Anyone have answers?

TinselKoala

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #97 on: July 12, 2008, 08:49:10 PM »
Do I have to post the links, or can you be bothered to look on this site for them yourself?

Your story is not credible. You claim to be an engineer with 15+ years of experience, working for a major engineering firm, yet you do not seem to have access to a machine shop, and you made the incredibly basic blunder of trying to use aluminum tubes for your magnets in your first attempt. And you spelled "eddy currents" wrong. Etc. Etc.

mondrasek

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #98 on: July 12, 2008, 09:04:39 PM »
20+ years, 15+ in robotics.  But I am a Mechanical Engineer.  Understandably weak in Electrical and Magnets wouldn't you agree?  That is why I pose those theories as questions.

But I am not here to argue with you.  If I am proved wrong it will still be worth the loss of the patent app fee.  I doubt I'll sleep well until I see one run or learn why it will not.  None of the dozen or so Engineers I have disclosed to can tell me why it will not run.

Your ideas are also welcome. 

I have acces to a machine shop.  Not a model shop, but it could make a larger scale version.  But replication was not my goal here.  I want this modeled in simulation software.  Trial and error prototyping is an inefficient way to optimize a design.

I am thrilled and honored that Clanzer is going for a build.  But I still ask any and all who have contacts with institutions and individuals with the simulation capabilities and interest to forward them the design info.  That is the fastest way to actual producable water pumps, or the unerstanding why this design does not work.

markh

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #99 on: July 12, 2008, 09:07:10 PM »
There has been something that I have been thinking about for a while, and it may be useful for this application.  I saw a product called magswitch on the internet.  It somehow mechanically turns a magnet on and off.  I don't know much about magnetizm, but could this process be used to turn the magnet on at just the right time to push the stator up?

Does anyone know how that product works.  It could be useful for a few different applications.




TinselKoala

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #100 on: July 12, 2008, 09:08:27 PM »
@mondrasek
I doubt if you will actually read it, but here is a good place to start. You might also give those other engineers this link.
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/overbal.htm

TinselKoala

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #101 on: July 12, 2008, 09:26:49 PM »
@ mondrasek: please do the following: look at the top of the page here. You will see a "search" button.
Click on that button. In the "search for" window that you see, enter "capture back EMF" without the quotes. Then click Search or simply hit "enter".
Also you may want to search for "pulse motor" and "Bedini".
Have fun.

TinselKoala

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #102 on: July 12, 2008, 09:28:11 PM »
sorry double post
I keep hitting the wrong buttons!

dudeman750

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #103 on: July 12, 2008, 09:28:51 PM »
Tinselkoala,

Do you have to be so rude? You obviously don't understand what is being discussed here. And what does spelling have to do with anything.. this thread was started on a concept. Mondresek is NOT an EE and I myself only have associates degree in EE and many years since classes and theory. The wheel is powered only by gravity, the magnetism only a vehicle for moving the mass of the magnets around to create the out of balance wheel. We were discussing using em to drive the mass of the magnet up to create more efficient wheel, reduce the opposition from the driving magnets, and asking for expertise in design of such a circuit as not to detract from the efficiency of the final output of the wheel. Both Mondresek and I have access to many machine shops as the area we live in is quite the industrial hub of our country. However, he was hoping someone could model this on computer first rather than many hours tinkering with "real" models. We don't have access to software that can do the physics involved with such a machine. He was hoping someone we contact might. If you take a minute and actually look at the "out of balance wheel" that he is proposing, I implore you to tell us why it won't work. That is what we are waiting for.

broli

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Re: Gravity Motor Patent 7/10/08
« Reply #104 on: July 12, 2008, 09:29:00 PM »
Please do not listen to TinselKoala. If you want to know why something works or doesn't learn it out of experience instead of reading it from the biggest skeptic around. You'll learn nothing from someone who doesn't believe in this stuff to begin with.