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Author Topic: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!  (Read 146204 times)

Park34

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #150 on: July 18, 2008, 05:39:30 PM »
imo the lamp is for safety right now, basically once an engine gets running on water alone and idling then we can go into how to eliminate the lamp, or hell maybe just drive with your headlights on :)

Shanti

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #151 on: July 19, 2008, 12:25:11 PM »
@Harti:
This coil before the cap version I also already suggested.
But just using a coil would not work. As you need quite a high inductance that the HV gets blocked, but at the same time quite a low inductance to let flow a lot of amps.
But I already mentioned: It should work if you do it like in Tesla's Patent about rectifying with coils. If you magnetize the coil core up to saturation-edge in one direction, then the HV will see a very high inductance (the coil with the core), but the LV side will only see an air core transformer (core already saturated in this direction).
With "usual" core materials the inductance difference between HV and LV will be on the order of several thousand times...
You can do this saturation also just with a permanent magnet. Another version for the saturation of the core would be like s1r's, where you let flow a lot of amps already through the coil, before the firing. This would even have the additional benefit, that the coil would additionally to the HV blocking also generate an inductive kickback during the firing and deliver also some HV! And if you time it correctly (FET Driver) you wouldn't even need the lamp as current limiter like s1r, and so don't waste any energy.

About the lamp for current limiting. I also see it like that. First generate a working model. Then it would be very easy to alter the circuit so that no energy gets wasted. I would suggest using a current limiting coil. But for tryouts keep it as simple as possible, so that as many people can work at it as possible...

Addition: BTW, if anyone would like to try this. It is very important, that the coil core is really exact at the saturation edge, and not below or above for this to work! I think this is also one of the main reasons, why people were not able to replicate s1r's setup...(You can easily find the saturation edge with an oscilloscope)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 01:16:50 PM by Shanti »

Park34

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #152 on: July 19, 2008, 07:29:13 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O27hq1NC_U&NR=1


check this out guys, very interesting

allcanadian

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #153 on: July 19, 2008, 08:00:08 PM »
Many of you will not like what I have to say but I will say it just the same. ;D Many here have criticized and condemned this inventor because you feel he is ignorant to the "facts". But you are not seeing the whole picture, the only one who seems to be may be Bruce_TPU. Many here know there is an electric current, a voltage potential and magnetic field but there is much more you are not seeing as nobody has considered the qualities and properties of the fields present.
I knew S1R had knowledge of the fields present the moment I read this----

Quote
"There is also a nail in the middle of it as to create a magnetic field in which the wave is formed,this is the reason for the different number of windings it causes the field to resonate and collapse but not reform to send power in a reverse direction back to the engines main coil"

Let's start by asking these questions---
-What wave is being "formed" in the magnetic field? and how is it formed?
-What causes the field to resonate and collapse but not reform?
-If the second and third coils have a constant DC current flow how can, and to what extent can the first coil interact with these coils?

I will not give you the answers but I will point you in the right direction ;)
I made this post a while back----
Quote
I thought you might find this interesting
The january 2008 copy of Discover magazine "100 top science stories of 2007", # 37--"How killer electrons form in space".
The highlights------
1)Superstrong pulses in earths magnetic field can drive electrons to near light speed.
2)Magnetic storm triggered by a coronal mass ejection, a plasma spitball shot out by the sun.
3)The influx of energetic particles create waves in our planets magnetic field.
4)The ultralow frequency waves made the planets(earth) magnetic field lines oscillate and accelerate electrons travelling along the field lines to extraordinary high speeds.
5)ULF waves are standing waves that stay in their location and vibrate like a string.

forest

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #154 on: July 19, 2008, 08:18:01 PM »
Many of you will not like what I have to say but I will say it just the same. ;D Many here have criticized and condemned this inventor because you feel he is ignorant to the "facts". But you are not seeing the whole picture, the only one who seems to be may be Bruce_TPU. Many here know there is an electric current, a voltage potential and magnetic field but there is much more you are not seeing as nobody has considered the qualities and properties of the fields present.
I knew S1R had knowledge of the fields present the moment I read this----

Let's start by asking these questions---
-What wave is being "formed" in the magnetic field? and how is it formed?
-What causes the field to resonate and collapse but not reform?
-If the second and third coils have a constant DC current flow how can, and to what extent can the first coil interact with these coils?

I will not give you the answers but I will point you in the right direction ;)
I made this post a while back----


WOW! We jumped at the end of this investigations. Give me a break I'm not prepared yet. ;-)

My personal thoughts : try to find an answer why Tesla worked so hard to get high frequency currents and why finally he used only alternating form of this high frequnecy currents to develop system of practical lighting ?

I think I found the answer. What about you ?



resonanceman

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #155 on: July 19, 2008, 10:33:54 PM »
The  thing I don't like about  the Sr1 coil  is that it needs that light   connected to it

That light   or a big  resistor seems like a really big waste to me .

I like to try to  change   problems into assets .

Has anyone  thought  of    driving  a  small  HHO   generator   in place  of  the  light bulbs?

Even a small amount  of HHO  should    expand  the  effect of the  plasma ..........even if there is not  enough  for it to flash  over  through the  entire  cylinder .


gary



Park34

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #156 on: July 20, 2008, 05:22:46 AM »
Hi,

Ok a few gripes here,

after building a replica of teh s1r coil i am bummed out. I figured it wouldnt work. I have tester that simulates cylinder pressure adn everything :( the only thing that was interesting is that with it hooked up the way he said the spark is less intense then when its not. what i found from that is that the electricty is going with the fastest way to ground through the secondary and third coild. I insulated the nail and same conditions. in fact if u hold the 12 volt wire one in each hand and ignite the cil you get shocked as if you were holding the spark plug wire. rather interesting how that occurs when the wires arent connected.

1) i watched the first video many times,

first off there are only threee wires i can see coming out of the mystery box. after replicating and seeing his dissasembly video where did the 4th go.

in the first video there is a bare wire bouncing off the brick

and finally i thing the inverter is hooked up, otherwise why have it in both videos.

ok may gripe later :)


Park34

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #157 on: July 20, 2008, 07:08:22 AM »
A couple questions:

(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/5186/waterdealoy9.png)
(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/5186/waterdealoy9.e3ded9fd86.jpg)

So is this how this is working???

the 240v is rectified to 240 dc which is sent through the windings, from the winding it is "magneticall" fed to the HV side of things. the current is then stored in the capacitors, upon the firing of the plug in the car the stored energy is released tot eh plug fireing?? and when is the plug on the 240v side fired, I am sorry i am just confused and tired of replicating things that dont work. so i am determined to get the results cap70 is getting

thanks again

Shanti

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #158 on: July 20, 2008, 05:39:30 PM »
LOL.

I think you really didn't get the right turn, how this circuit works... LOL

1.) The LV Cap 330uF  gets charged by the rectified 230VAC. This charges the cap to 320VDC (sqrt(2)*230V).
     Nothing else happens until now.
2.) The pickup coil you se on the right, "sees" when the correct timing point is there and switches the transistor or FET to let current flow through the primary of the ignition coil.
3.) After some time, the pickup coil will not deliver anymore enough voltage, and so the transistor or FET will stop letting the current flow through the primary.
     As the primary coil wants to hold the current flowing through the coil (laymen's term), it will induce a big inductive kickback voltage (several 100 Volts) .
    Now there will be a transfomer action between the secondary and the primary of the ignition coil, and so the secondary will develop a voltage of several ten's of kilovolts.
    This will now charge the 3 small caps (and yes, they are not all needed. You could just take one HV capacitor instead).
    As soon as the capacitors are charged to a voltage high enough, so that the (right) spark gap will fire, we have a resonant HV HF LC-circuit. Now the spark gap , as soon as fired behaves almost like a short circuit. So the capacitors charged to a high voltage are now able to discharge through the primary of the toroid coil.
   Now we will have another transformer action: From the primary of the toroid to the secondary of the toroid. This will yield a HV at the secondary side of the toroid coil.
  This HV is big enough, so that the (left) Spark gap of the spark plug will arc over. And as before: As soon as we now have an arc over the gap, it will behave as almost a short circuit (very low resistance. Actually it rather behaves a bit diode like, but I'm getting offtopic). So now the LV charged 330uF capacitor is also able to discharge itself through the gap. So you will get the strong plasma from the LV discharge, but the HV is needed to "ignite" the gap, so that the LV is able to discharge.

Hope it's clear now... 

allcanadian

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #159 on: July 20, 2008, 05:58:46 PM »
@forest
Quote
My personal thoughts : try to find an answer why Tesla worked so hard to get high frequency currents and why finally he used only alternating form of this high frequnecy currents to develop system of practical lighting ?
I think I found the answer. What about you ?

From some of your previous posts I believe you know more than you are telling us ;D I find my answers from the source---Tesla's work and others.

@All
I have built gotoluc's circuit and can produce extreme dicharges(very loud) at up to 3/8" gap, but there is a problem I knew of before I built the circuit. The weak point is the relay contacts, they must handle large disruptive current flows which erodes and sometimes welds together the contacts. A better way would be to remove the relay from the circuit and utilize the high voltage side to control the low voltage high current flow, meaning no moving parts or diodes or spark gaps.
To be honest, if you asked me how this S1R circuit works two years ago I would tell you it cannot work because the high voltage from the ignition coil has no power in itself. I can discharge it into a coil or resistive lighting filament and nothing happens---the amperage is to low. And then I read a statement from another member that changed my perspective of how things work in nature, "Nature works indirectly". While one quality of field may appear to have no power in and of itself, it can apply force to a complementary field, this field could constitute a field in opposition to the original field in which force is applied.
If we can concieve that we live in a world of opposites, that every thing must have by nature an opposite, then we are missing something which must be a fundamental force in nature. That is the "Diamagnetic Field" which must oppose by nature the only field we know of--- the magnetic field. Diamagnetism is not a magnetic field of opposite polarity, that is SN<----->NS, it is a field which expells all magnetism irregardless of polarity----an impolar field only in appearance as it must have opposition within itself.
Based on experiments I have done towards understanding the diamagnetic field, I believe from what I have seen that S1R's circuit is utilizing this effect.

vrand

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #160 on: July 20, 2008, 06:52:36 PM »
What size and type/mfg engine are you using? 

Capacitor70 engine info posted at "WaterFuel1978" Fuel egroup,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Post # 6104, Capacitor70 Design Details, July 8, 2008: 
.....7. I tried my circuit with 4 stroke 125CC bike engine and 2HP engine
it is not giving single fire. But it is giving little better
results with 80CC 4 Stroke engine Kinetic K4, as you seen in
youtube video.


Post #6055 Plasma water bike, July 7, 2008
Hi, this my first post,

Engine which I am using is NOT TWO STROKE,

Its
4 Stroke 80CC, Kinetic K4 bike engine

I am around you for any help, please feel free to PM me on youtube or
overunity, I am not posting details on other site to stay out of
confusion....

You need to increase diodes if you are not getting any plasma blast...

Today I am again working on 2HP low compression engine, because piston
rings of Kinetic K4 Engine are faulty, oil is coming out from kick
(oil seal) and also on spark plug tip creating problem for more tests,
leg is giving pain...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Maybe not getting engine firing on the larger engine (125cc vs 80cc) is due to not enough water fuel in cylinders?

Fuel delivery seems to be the next major issue to resolve in running an engine, after developing the spark plasma system.

Regards,
Michael Randall

forest

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #161 on: July 20, 2008, 07:15:06 PM »
@forest
From some of your previous posts I believe you know more than you are telling us ;D I find my answers from the source---Tesla's work and others.

@All
I have built gotoluc's circuit and can produce extreme dicharges(very loud) at up to 3/8" gap, but there is a problem I knew of before I built the circuit. The weak point is the relay contacts, they must handle large disruptive current flows which erodes and sometimes welds together the contacts. A better way would be to remove the relay from the circuit and utilize the high voltage side to control the low voltage high current flow, meaning no moving parts or diodes or spark gaps.
To be honest, if you asked me how this S1R circuit works two years ago I would tell you it cannot work because the high voltage from the ignition coil has no power in itself. I can discharge it into a coil or resistive lighting filament and nothing happens---the amperage is to low. And then I read a statement from another member that changed my perspective of how things work in nature, "Nature works indirectly". While one quality of field may appear to have no power in and of itself, it can apply force to a complementary field, this field could constitute a field in opposition to the original field in which force is applied.
If we can concieve that we live in a world of opposites, that every thing must have by nature an opposite, then we are missing something which must be a fundamental force in nature. That is the "Diamagnetic Field" which must oppose by nature the only field we know of--- the magnetic field. Diamagnetism is not a magnetic field of opposite polarity, that is SN<----->NS, it is a field which expells all magnetism irregardless of polarity----an impolar field only in appearance as it must have opposition within itself.
Based on experiments I have done towards understanding the diamagnetic field, I believe from what I have seen that S1R's circuit is utilizing this effect.

@allcanadian
It is very interesting.Hmm,so you states that this is 'diamagnetic field' interacting with Earth magnetic field ? . Seems that you are a step ahead of me :-)

Ok, you have given nice explanation, it's time to describe what I've learned. There is not much of it , because I have no deep electrical knowledge and most I had learned in school I forgot.

Searching among Tesla articles,patents, lectures I cannot find if and when he used DC like high frequency currents. All what is described are AC currents of high frequency. Their usage for artificial illumination is described in details while DC impulses of high frequency are only mentioned. Yet I believe Tesla used them for his wireless transmission.

It is a known fact that he first thought that produces waves/field is sent thought the rarefied  air and maybe it can work to the some extend but not as great as thought the ground.He maybe thought that this field is electrostatic in nature and only later discovered by experiments and notes from others (Stubblefield - Earth currents) that it was a flawed theory.

Wile electromagnetic field is not dependant on any external field someone would speculate about other waves...dependent on a medium to propagate...

One may imagine a  scalar pure magnetic wave in Earth magnetic field.They exists, many types - some of them are described by Alfven
but probably not all. Seems that this information is also supressed.
I can imagine a wave which is propagating in steps - first ahead then return back. If it find another forcing impulse right in the proper time when coming back  it takes additional momentum and goes further and becomes stronger.
Of course it's clear that such a wave cannot be propelled by alternating force nor it is electromagnetic in nature.

Now  someone should explain why it is a rare effect , how to produce it, why we are not observing it. It's beyond my knowledge, I could only speculate that our worst enemy which hides that effects is electromagnetic radiation. Tesla had spoken about it  - his circuits  generated only 10% of electromagnetic radiation 95% of energy was preserved and used.

My advice : Eliminate electromagnetic radiation - you should see a plenty of miracle effects.

I can also speculate (based on my minimal knowledge) that electric part of electromagnetic wave is the key which limits those effects.

Maybe that's why Tesla did a break immediately at the peak of current change ? That produce magnetic kick, but not powering circuit during lowering edge of pulse must have peculiar advantage which I don't understand - maybe this half of the wave is the source of electric compound of electromagnetic wave ?

That's all. Now I hope that you explain me the rest ;-)

allcanadian

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #162 on: July 20, 2008, 09:31:05 PM »
@forest
Quote
@allcanadian
It is very interesting.Hmm,so you states that this is 'diamagnetic field' interacting with Earth magnetic field ? . Seems that you are a step ahead of me :-)
I never said it was the "Earths" magnetic field that a diamagnetic field could interact with, Any magnetic field ;) as they are opposite conditions.   
               
Magnetic<---neutral center--->Diamagnetic

Quote
Maybe that's why Tesla did a break immediately at the peak of current change ? That produce magnetic kick, but not powering circuit during lowering edge of pulse must have peculiar advantage which I don't understand - maybe this half of the wave is the source of electric compound of electromagnetic wave ?
If you seek understanding of this one point you have just mentioned you will be years ahead of everyone else, the fact that you have acknowleged this is an important piece of the puzzle in itself is a very good sign.
Best Regards

Bruce_TPU

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #163 on: July 20, 2008, 09:38:50 PM »
@ Forest

The answer is in learning to produce Longitudinal waves. and then to capture them, turning them back to useful energy.  Radiant Energy, Radiant electricity, was Tesla's Secret.  He saw it, learned to replicate it, and then learned to recapture it to use it.  High voltage pulses are a starting place but there is much more.  This RE interacts with the Ether or comes from the Ether, or everything is Ether and it is just another variant.  A matter of perspective I imagine.

This is off subject, so back to the topic at hand.  Has anyone put a pickup coil near the tip of the spark, and scoped across it?  Has anyone scoped the HV output?  Just wondering.  ;)

Cheers,

Bruce

forest

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #164 on: July 22, 2008, 10:39:48 AM »
I'm not used to throwing in information with no testing to back it up, but a lot of info seems to be going
around that is ignoring the "original" S1R coil setup.  (I don't even have proof of it's operation, but ....)

There were Two Coils, not transformer connected (Magnetically, that is) and one had two windings.  The
relays used were (This from others research, but it's in the original PDF) to swap between compressors.

This immeadately implies that the two winding coil had bucking winds, which would "Decrease" the mag
field.  Now there is also the patent, just shown around here a short while back, about a transformer wind
that used "Opposite" direction winds, but they were not wound over each other.

I hope that what I have just stated gets my concept across.  I'm not good at putting this type of understanding
into words.  If the HV is in one wind, the LV in the Buck wind, with the second coil parallel to these other tw,
and now the current flow from the HV spark starts the current flow for LV while canceling the Mag field in a
coil that happens to be at a good spot for RE transmission, while this 2 wind coil is receiving during a mag
field suppresed moment during a current "increase"....

Sorry, but reading what I just wrote shows my explanation skills stink.  In my own thoughts, I always take
into account that the actual energy flow IS NOT just what is in the wires as "Electron" motion, nor is the
"Magnetic" field the major component.  Making USE of this other component is the ideal method.  Also
note.  (Not to further confuse the issue, but)   In other threads (SEC, HHO, etc.) it has been plainly noted
that HHO production is GREATLY enhanced by RE.  If the Spark (Plasma or otherwise) has a large amount
of RE being used, then the Water IS going to be broken down, if you want to accept it or not.  This will NOT
be properly measureable, nor will the looks of the Plasma spark be a lot of help, unless you work with RE and
tesla coils a lot....   If someone had a calibrated RE meter, then OK, but I would love to see one.  It took me
a lot of work to be able to make circuitry just to properly detect RE, and it really has no accuracy.  I can
feel it better than measure it.  (I didn't say that.  Just a joke.)

Either way, I'm fairly sure that RE, HHO, and specific coil construction for energy timing will solve the problem.
I don't mean ignition timing of the engine, but If I got my message across, I'm sure you understand.

Of course, this could be totally wrong.  I've run an engine on HHO, but never on pure water input to the Cyl.

Good luck.  If I ever get these other two items working, I'll be trying to help full force, but I don't understand
this "Energy Conversion" process well enough yet to really be able to pull coil specs out of the air.

Art.

WOW!

Can you describe how to detect RE other then using own skin  ? I would like to step frequency up and use some meter to measure RE intensity.