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Author Topic: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!  (Read 105291 times)

Offline livingwaters08

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2008, 08:08:27 AM »
Group,
If you'll notice, s1 disclosed all of this right after being severely chastised for non disclosure on his tech site Waterfuel1978,  Coincidence?  What do you think?  Disinformation....hmm, we'll see. :-\

Livingwaters08


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Offline xbox hacker

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2008, 04:17:17 PM »
New file on Waterfuel1978....

I am glad everyone like my drawings... LOL  ;D

Too big to post here....

Offline Fast

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2008, 07:29:11 PM »
Pic from the new file on WaterFuel1978...

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2008, 07:29:11 PM »
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Offline xbox hacker

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2008, 07:42:23 PM »
Pic from the new file on WaterFuel1978...

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!

"HV in from bottom of plug"...LOL

"Charger - connected to HV out" ...ROFLMAO!!!

or am i missing something here....

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Offline hydrocontrol

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2008, 09:17:18 PM »
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!

"HV in from bottom of plug"...LOL

"Charger - connected to HV out" ...ROFLMAO!!!

or am i missing something here....

Let me think about this.. The engine case is now high voltage and the ground is the plug tip. Seems it might be a bit of a possible shock hazard holding onto the engine case while running. You just hope the Plasma spark goes to the plug tip and not the person holding the engine. Considering a lot of the cables are on the ground that would make a ground path through a person seem possible. Whoever tries this should be EXTRA careful. Looks a bit SHOCKING.  :o

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2008, 09:17:18 PM »
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Offline Area 51

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2008, 12:32:25 AM »
I think this is my first post here, I could be wrong.

I am sure some of you remember me from Waterfuel1978. Well I was always skeptical of his drawings and lack of evidence. I'm sure some of you remember also that I got banned from his group. Granted I probably went a little overboard but I call a spade a spade. One day he talked down to a newbie and told him that he would never post a picture of his own personal vehicle on there so people could "pick it apart" as he said. That's when I called him a liar and a fraud. Let's look at some facts;
1. Showed up one day and said he had a car (El Camino) running on water.
2. Had some half drawn plans on a yellow piece of paper.
3. When asked, could never explain anything and was always forgetting something. Still the same way.
4. Then he occassionally pops in to find out information that he doesn't have.

I have always said that he has nothing but an idea, that he is making everyone else do the work for him.
Three long years and he finally posts something. Isn't if funny that all of this comes about now? I mean look at what all has happened in the last month or so;

1. A Japanese company posts a video of a car running on nothing but water.
2. It is reported that a company by the name of Ethos is working on a developing Daniel Dingle's <---(spelled different) water car, come to find out that it is bogus. Or we think it is.
3. Now there is a report and interview of Daniel Dingel's <---(spelled right) is going to do it now. He (Dingel) has been forced to show his hand, because of 1 and 2 I think.

I believe he (S1R) was forced to do something or loose his "idea" to some one else too like Mr. Dingel.  Three long years and he posts a picture of a nail wrapped in wire? Man it's so simple, why didn't all of us think of this before. All attempt of humor aside, I have always said that this technology could work but not from what he tells us. I say forget what he does and concentrate on the others here who are actually doing something like Capacitor 70, Xbox hacker, etc.......

Sorry for the rant but I did have to introduce myself to people who don't know me, lol.    Area 51

Offline geovel56

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #66 on: July 11, 2008, 01:44:57 AM »
Hi Everyone,

I am not calling anyone a LIAR, but a few things don't add up.  S1R's write up description and posts on the Yahoo Waterfuel forum said the main coil was uninsulated BARE COPPER WIRE, and two coils using stranded insulated wire. 

I am degreed in Physics, but not an electronics guru by any stretch of the imagination, but even my 6th grade science teacher showed this in his electricity experiment, that electricity follows the path of least resistance.  Whether it is a straight piece of wire or coiled up a billion times, isn't BARE WIRE essentially a DEAD SHORT between windings, and therefore no different than a straight piece of wire (not counting the resistance per foot of copper)?  That was a rhetorical statement... LOL

Then today, S1R posted on the Yahoo Waterfuel forum, "the main coil has black tape on it, as well as "the other black coil."  The original statement, however said the other 2 coils were insulated stranded wire.  Looking at SIR's own picture very closely, shows the black coils are NOT black tape covering BARE WIRES ( I still can't get over the bare wire thing... LOL), but looks like standard factory insulated wire. 

OK, pick a story and go with it, S1R!

Then a nail just thrown in the air space of the coil as opposed to the wire being wound tightly around the nail, also would be a dead short across the bare wire windings as it simply laid on top of the bare wire windings.  Certainly one of those conditions would cause a dead short!

Years ago, I had a bad ignition coil on my car.  The primary showed 1 Ohm resistance which was OK and within the manufacturer's specifications.  The secondary coil however measured only 4K Ohms, but should have been on the order of 10K to 12K ohms, far below manufacturer's specifications.  That meant a some of the secondary windings burned (melted) and created a short between the windings resulting in greatly reduced resistance.

Then we have the best statement of all:  The coils slowed down the electricity enough so that the timing on the Briggs and Straton engine (funny how Briggs and Straton abbreviated is BS) did not have to be changed.

Again, I am not an electronics guru, but doesn't electricity travel at the same speed, regardless as to what it is traveling through?  I do know there are timer/delay circuits one can design and create, but isn't that simply using components that allow for charge/discharge times and other components that vary the time of delivery of the electricity, but doesn't change the actual speed of electricity itself? Sorry, rhetorical again!  LOL

Regardless, these three coils certainly cannot "slow down" the speed of electricity to that extent!

OK, so in summation, we have Bare Copper Wire as a main coil, but then recanted to being covered in black tape, the other black coil also having black tape around it.  But S1R's original description said the 2nd and 3rd coils were insulated stranded wire, but then "the inventor's" own picture clearly showing otherwise (unless he's the best in the world at wrapping black tape around a wire to look exactly like factory made insulation), we have an inverter, but not really, we have 3 coils wound so that they "slow down" electricity enough to the extent where adjusting the timing on a BS engine (I love that) wasn't necessary, etc., etc., etc...

Again, I am not calling anyone a LIAR, but... draw your own conclusions and decide for yourself, but I am literally ROFLMFAO!

Regards,
Geo





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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #66 on: July 11, 2008, 01:44:57 AM »
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Offline bumfuzzled

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #67 on: July 11, 2008, 02:19:21 AM »
Hi Everyone,

I am not calling anyone a LIAR, but a few things don't add up.  S1R's write up description and posts on the Yahoo Waterfuel forum said the main coil was uninsulated BARE COPPER WIRE, and two coils using stranded insulated wire. 

I am degreed in Physics, but not an electronics guru by any stretch of the imagination, but even my 6th grade science teacher showed this in his electricity experiment, that electricity follows the path of least resistance.  Whether it is a straight piece of wire or coiled up a billion times, isn't BARE WIRE essentially a DEAD SHORT between windings, and therefore no different than a straight piece of wire (not counting the resistance per foot of copper)?  That was a rhetorical statement... LOL

Then today, S1R posted on the Yahoo Waterfuel forum, "the main coil has black tape on it, as well as "the other black coil."  The original statement, however said the other 2 coils were insulated stranded wire.  Looking at SIR's own picture very closely, shows the black coils are NOT black tape covering BARE WIRES ( I still can't get over the bare wire thing... LOL), but looks like standard factory insulated wire. 

OK, pick a story and go with it, S1R!

Then a nail just thrown in the air space of the coil as opposed to the wire being wound tightly around the nail, also would be a dead short across the bare wire windings as it simply laid on top of the bare wire windings.  Certainly one of those conditions would cause a dead short!

Years ago, I had a bad ignition coil on my car.  The primary showed 1 Ohm resistance which was OK and within the manufacturer's specifications.  The secondary coil however measured only 4K Ohms, but should have been on the order of 10K to 12K ohms, far below manufacturer's specifications.  That meant a some of the secondary windings burned (melted) and created a short between the windings resulting in greatly reduced resistance.

Then we have the best statement of all:  The coils slowed down the electricity enough so that the timing on the Briggs and Straton engine (funny how Briggs and Straton abbreviated is BS) did not have to be changed.

Again, I am not an electronics guru, but doesn't electricity travel at the same speed, regardless as to what it is traveling through?  I do know there are timer/delay circuits one can design and create, but isn't that simply using components that allow for charge/discharge times and other components that vary the time of delivery of the electricity, but doesn't change the actual speed of electricity itself? Sorry, rhetorical again!  LOL

Regardless, these three coils certainly cannot "slow down" the speed of electricity to that extent!

OK, so in summation, we have Bare Copper Wire as a main coil, but then recanted to being covered in black tape, the other black coil also having black tape around it.  But S1R's original description said the 2nd and 3rd coils were insulated stranded wire, but then "the inventor's" own picture clearly showing otherwise (unless he's the best in the world at wrapping black tape around a wire to look exactly like factory made insulation), we have an inverter, but not really, we have 3 coils wound so that they "slow down" electricity enough to the extent where adjusting the timing on a BS engine (I love that) wasn't necessary, etc., etc., etc...

Again, I am not calling anyone a LIAR, but... draw your own conclusions and decide for yourself, but I am literally ROFLMFAO!

Regards,
Geo






I brought those points up last night plus a few more on the yahoo group. Never could really get a straight answer. Plus the multistrand wire adding to the number of turns in the two coils.......... ::)

Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #68 on: July 11, 2008, 02:56:35 AM »
Hi Everyone,
(snip)

Then we have the best statement of all:  The coils slowed down the electricity enough so that the timing on the Briggs and Straton engine (funny how Briggs and Straton abbreviated is BS) did not have to be changed.

Again, I am not an electronics guru, but doesn't electricity travel at the same speed, regardless as to what it is traveling through?  I do know there are timer/delay circuits one can design and create, but isn't that simply using components that allow for charge/discharge times and other components that vary the time of delivery of the electricity, but doesn't change the actual speed of electricity itself? Sorry, rhetorical again!  LOL

Regardless, these three coils certainly cannot "slow down" the speed of electricity to that extent!
t... draw your own conclusions and decide for yourself, but I am literally ROFLMFAO!

Regards,
Geo


Hi Geo,

Not defending anyone, but your statements above are incorrect.  Electrons travel slower through iron then through copper.  Slower through copper wire than silver plated.  Etc.

Personally, all here, would have time better spent working on Ossie and Luc's circuit.  It is producing cold electricity IMHO.  Lots of avenues for experimentation with  those who are more astute as to what is happening.  I am in the middle of a critical build, or I too would be hands on.  If any of you build the circuit given by Luc or Ossie, or Hacker and would like some "interesting" areas of experimentation, PM me.  I will not respond unless you have built it and have it working.

Cheers all,

Bruce

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #68 on: July 11, 2008, 02:56:35 AM »
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Offline Area 51

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #69 on: July 11, 2008, 04:01:52 AM »
Well I think we need to give up on this S1R project and concentrate on the ones out there that are working. I have been doing a lot of reading and there have been so many different updates to designs that it's hard to keep track of them. Keep up the good work guys.

Area 51

Offline geovel56

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2008, 04:58:09 AM »
To Bruce and anyone else that cares!  LOL

Not defending anyone, but your statements above are incorrect.  Electrons travel slower through iron then through copper.  Slower through copper wire than silver plated.  Etc.

Personally, all here, would have time better spent working on Ossie and Luc's circuit.  It is producing cold electricity IMHO.  Lots of avenues for experimentation with  those who are more astute as to what is happening.  I am in the middle of a critical build, or I too would be hands on.  If any of you build the circuit given by Luc or Ossie, or Hacker and would like some "interesting" areas of experimentation, PM me.  I will not respond unless you have built it and have it working.

Cheers all,

Bruce

Sorry Bruce, but you're wrong.  Now we're in my ballpark, Physics!  Electrons themselves in different metals move ("wiggle") at different speeds depending on the number of free electrons per unit length and a host of other factors we really don't need to cover without getting to technical, not really related to these plasma circuits and BORING, but the actual speed ("wiggle") of an electron is very slow on the order of .02 mm/sec if I remember correctly.  If you are really interested, PM me and I'll do all the calculations for you to illustrate it.

Electricity on the other hand, contrary to what we were taught as children, isn't really the flow of electrons, because they really don't physically flow or move through a wire.  Electricity is a propagated electromagnetic wave and travels near, but not quite, the speed of light. 

But just for the sake of argument, let's just say different conductors propagate an electromagnetic wave at different speeds, but will still be near the speed of light.  Do you really think S1R's coils could "slow down" a propagated electromagnetic wave so much that it compensates for the difference in timing on a motor rotating at most of 7000 RPM?  That revolutions per minute... that's not even in the same galaxy as approximately 186,000 miles per second, let alone being in the same ballpark!  Nuff said!

Geo

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2008, 04:58:09 AM »
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Offline geovel56

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #71 on: July 11, 2008, 05:22:11 AM »
By the way, it is actually almost starting to annoy me as to the plasma arc and water, running a car being called the S1R idea, experiment, theory, project, concept, etc.!  This was done in the early 1950's ('51 or '52 I think) by Adam Crawford of Scotland, and he supposedly did have an automobile running on tap water using a plasma arc. 

Supposedly it was even broadcasted on Scottish television, but was either suppressed, not taken seriously or for whatever reason, was lost for many years.  If anything, this should be called the Adam Crawford Project to Give Credit Where Credit Is Due or simply call it a Plasma Arc Watercar!

This is not a S1R "thingy" especially from a guy who has played the game for 3 years with no proof whatsoever about an El Camino, and only after recent REAL plasma arc circuits created by Luc, Ossie, Capacitor70, myself, XBox, JCBX, and others, did he finally show a video with a Briggs and Straton motor only idling on water.  Did it rev up?  Could it rev up? 

Whatever... Capacitor70 and JCBX have done just as much as S1R and actually a helluva lot more, since they designed the circuits themselves.  My guess Luc, Ossie and I know I will be able to join the ranks of getting a motor to run on tap water very soon.  It's all just a short matter of time before we all start doing it!  Let's keep the FOCUS on the right thing and not be distracted by BS!

Regards,
Geo

Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #72 on: July 11, 2008, 05:43:05 AM »
(Snip)

But just for the sake of argument, let's just say different conductors propagate an electromagnetic wave at different speeds, but will still be near the speed of light.  Do you really think S1R's coils could "slow down" a propagated electromagnetic wave so much that it compensates for the difference in timing on a motor rotating at most of 7000 RPM?  That revolutions per minute... that's not even in the same galaxy as approximately 186,000 miles per second, let alone being in the same ballpark!  Nuff said!

Geo

@Geo

I never said, nor agreed to the S1R information.  I was making a point that Iron CAN delay a pulse, and Silver plated wire WILL allow a faster pulse.  Electricity does not move at the same speed regardless of the conductor.  Sorry.  And you can keep your physics books on the shelf, for I do not think they will have much to say about cold electricity either, considering they do not even acknowledge its existence.  The point I was making is that you said iron would not delay a pulse and I say that I know for a FACT that is not true.   ;) ;D  It is important for other reasons for people to understand this fact.

You would be better off hanging up your physics books for a bit and reading Aspden, or Linderman and then doing some bench work to determine what really is "real" and what is just as "real" but as yet undiscovered.   :o  Or read Gerry Vassilatos describe Tesla's discovery of Radiant electricity and how similar that is to what is taking place in Luc's and Ossies circuit.  But surely you know all of this already, seeing how physics is your specialty.  Tell us, what makes the spark so special?  Why does it get cold or cooler than hotter?  What is the significance of the HV on top of the LV?  Why are the Diodes so important in the setup, not in an electronics way, but because of the physics of cold electricity production?

Hmm...   Not in the physics books?

Good luck,

Bruce 

Offline TheOne

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2008, 05:51:25 AM »
I think the main problem with the coil replication right now is the MAIN WIRE need to be uninsulated. I know some say that not make sense but its maybe what we are missing, I will try the coil this week end as described, without the insulation on the main wire.

Its maybe why no one are able to reproduce the effect, I imagine that create a new effect different from a insulated wire.

Offline geovel56

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Re: S1r PDF coil description and discussion !!!!
« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2008, 11:10:30 AM »
@ Bruce,

For one, I have built a circuit I am testing, how about you?  Second, an uninsulated BARE WIRE in a coil touching another winding is a dead short... period!  It's not going to DELAY anything... are you a complete moron or just partially?  Why don't you actually read what I wrote intead of running your mouth with inane drivel. 

I said there is no way the electricity going through that coil could EVER slow down the propagated electromagnetic wave enough to compensate for not having to change the timing of the motor as stated by S1R.  I also said even if there is a difference between one metal's propagation speed, they are all near the speed of light which isn't even in the same galaxy, let alone the same ballpark of speed differential required as S1R claimed.  Next time be more careful what you say.  It is far better to be silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open your BIG mouth and prove it!

Third, Luc invited me to his forum as one of the pioneers, in fact I believe Ossie came in the day after I did.  I was invinted because he knows I have put together a team to work on this.  We have 2 donor cars, a 1974 Chevy Blazer and a 1998 Ford Windstar.

Our goal is to get the Blazer working first, take all the necessary measurements and collect the pertinent data which would be necessary for a car like the Windstar with its computer and pollution crap, to effectively either create circuits to fool the computer into thinking it is running on gasoline, or to create a plug and play module to replace the computer altogether.  My group has unanimously agreed that everything we do, tests, failures, successes, trials and tribulations will all be reported as they occur on an ongoing basis to keep everyone informed and to keep it all PUBLIC DOMAIN.

Both Luc and Ossie came up with outstanding circuits and we as a group have been trying to enhance them and keep that forum focused on the taks at hand without "crapster" distractions.

Now to explain why the spark plug is cold and not hot and also why the water is not hot... it is almost identical to Peter Graneau's replication of an experiment done in the very early 1900's... 1907 I believe.  What is happening is this is a cold dense fog reaction to a plasma arc.  The fog is generated at the point where the plasma arc comes in contact with water droplets (ionization).  Fog droplets are many times smaller than water droplets.  The cold dense fog droplets and spaced apart from each other.  The smaller the fog droplets are, the more bond energy per unit mass is liberated and more strongly the droplets repel each other. 

The "tearing" of the liquid water molecule is accomplished by overcoming the Ampere tension forces of the water droplet.  This is easily done because the energy required to overcome this force is on the order of a fraction of a joule.  A plasma arc easily accomplishes this.

The energy flow through the fog is ionized, but does NOT heat the water, but rather the energy is stored electrostatically and then the ions recombine after the explosion back into water droplets.  Ionization is an energy absorbing action.  During the explosion, the water molecules do NOT undergo a chemical change, and the energy stored is due to the intermolecular bond energy per unit mass.  The reserve energy is equal to the latent heat energy of evaporation.

This is NOT an instantaneous disassociation of water into its components of hydrogen and oxygen and burned, it is not any type of hydrolysis or steam reaction.  This is NOT a thermal reaction, it is NOT a chemical combustion reaction.

IT IS an electrostatic/electrodynamic mechanical energy phenomenon.  Very similar to Lightening and Thunder in the atmosphere.  Water is a very very peculiar substance with an incredible amount of energy potential.

Since the is no combustion/burning of anything, there is no heat generated.  The temperature of the recombined water droplets after the explosion is very close to the ambient temperature of the water and dense fog prior to the plasma arc hitting it.  The speed at which the fog is exploded initially is at supersonic speeds and a sonic boom is both heard and felt, just like thunder after a big lightning bolt flashes.

This is a cold temperature event, not hot or even warm.  Part of the reason the spark plugs are not hot and even cold, as Ossie has reported from his tests, is because of this phenomenon, as well as the recombination of water afterward causing an evaporation effect along with very high fog/water molecules being propelled cooling it off.  It was also noted in Graneau's experiment that he believes the output energy released was greater than the input.

That's the most basic way I can explain it, although there is quite a bit more to it.  I think this should give you, and everyone else a good understanding of the effect.

Now, don't EVER tell me to hang up my Physics books again!  Just be a man and admit you were wrong in stating the delay in a propagated electromagnetic wave could EVER be slowed down enough to account for the effect S1R is claiming.  How absolutely ridiculous!  It's even more ridiculous than comparing how fast an olympic sprinter runs the 100 meter dash to the speed of a bullet from a gun!   The time differential isn't even close!

But PLEASE, build his coil with the uninsulated BARE WIRE windings touching each other as his picture shows, and tell me there isn't a dead short.  The electricity will NOT go around the coil, but straight across the bare wires in contact with each other, so the coiled wire means nothing.  Better yet, test it with your tongue and report to us what happened!  LMAO

Geo

 

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