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Discussion board help and admin topics => Half Baked Ideas => Topic started by: raaaid on October 01, 2005, 11:03:08 PM

Title: the perfect pump
Post by: raaaid on October 01, 2005, 11:03:08 PM
how would you make 1000 tons of water go all the way up 10 km and then down again with no friction?

have you heard about a tiphon? your toilet has one, you would make use of that principle if you wanted to take gas from a car deposit with a plastic tube

with an ideal fluid you could make the tube go 10 km up and move all the fluid you wanted up always that the end of the tube is lower than the level of water where the other end of the tube is

now imagine that in the top of the 10 km tiphon you trick the system and divide the tube in two, one which goes down again ending one meter below the level of water but the other that lets half of the water up not letting air come through the tube so the tiphon keeps alive

for what i have studied as long as density*gravity*height is higher in one end of the tube the fluid will move but it doesnt talk about mass so the fluid would not be noticing the splitting in two of the tubes at the top keepeng constant the variables that count but not the mass that doesnt count in the equation

im really anxious to ask my teacher of fluid mechanics about this but am i missing something?

the key would be not letting air entering in the stealing top tube what may not be posible

by the way if you havent noticed this is not posible because then you could move 500ton 10 km up by moving 500 tons 1 meter down but why not
Title: Re: the perfect pump
Post by: sypherios on October 03, 2005, 10:16:09 PM
The homies are down with this one. Thats ill
Title: Re: the perfect pump
Post by: ooandioo on October 04, 2005, 11:57:19 AM
Could you please reply a bit more about it, perhaps with a drawing?

-- Andi
Title: Re: the perfect pump
Post by: raaaid on October 05, 2005, 01:12:43 PM
first ill explain how a syphon works:

i have a mercury siphon that loops up 35 cm and then down 70
being a level difference of 35cm so a pressure gradient of 350 mm

the 70cm end of the loop makes a pressure down of 700mm which is balanced with the 700 mm of the atmosphere

but the beggining of the loop only pushes down 350 mm of mercury while the atmosphere pushes up 700 so the water goes up in the beggining of the loop not because of going down in the end but because the atmosferic pressure is greater on one side while the other is balanced , is not necesary for the water to come out to keep the atmosferic pressure, there is balance of forces in one side and suction in the other, is a constant suction to avoid vacuum

so you a have a constant flow up that goes down because forces down are in balance so is easy to beat it and has no other way to go

but if you pick up all the mercury that goes up by increasing the volume of the top of the tube as it rises the amount of fluid up you wont have to beat the atmospheric presure because the volume is increased by the water flowing up so the force to pump up the water will be similar to the strength necessary to squeze the tube to cut the flow of the plastic tube that holds the mercury,the perfect would be increasing the volume at the same rate it flows up so you would send nothing down
Title: Re: the perfect pump
Post by: ooandioo on October 05, 2005, 01:47:21 PM
Thanks for the infos. Sounds interesting but, after all, a little bit hard to imagine. Could you submit a drawing?

-- Andi
Title: Re: the perfect pump
Post by: raaaid on October 05, 2005, 02:48:11 PM
i dont have a scanner and besides i dont know how to post pictures but ill describe the diagram i have so if you want you can make it yourself

i have two different recipients of mercury with a level diference of 35 cm i unite them by a siphon tube that goes up 70 cm with respect to the lowest level of mercury

 in the top of the siphon divide the tube in two, one which goes down to the lower mercury and another that goes horizontal that is recovering the mercury by pulling a piston

its very simple you can draw it with 4 lines
Title: Re: the perfect pump
Post by: ooandioo on October 06, 2005, 12:00:41 AM
Ok, i dont understand it truly. Can't you simply draw an image with "MS Paint" or so and attach it?

-- Andi.
Title: Re: the perfect pump
Post by: FreeEnergy on October 06, 2005, 02:09:49 AM
please you need to be more clear. a drawing will be great :)
Title: Re: the perfect pump
Post by: lanca III on October 07, 2005, 09:04:35 PM
the perfect pump-system:
US4963073 Tash
DE4008976 Diel
DE3621312 Bierner

Don Adsitt "The very ..."webpage:John Herring

and last DE2429o86 Max Mueller Friedrich TURGOR-PUMPE-/MOTOR
and least  look for the work of Thomas Townsend Brown.
Title: Re: the perfect pump
Post by: raaaid on October 17, 2005, 03:09:52 PM
heres the drawing:

Title: Re: the perfect pump
Post by: ooandioo on October 18, 2005, 12:41:08 AM
Thanks for the drawing. After all, the fact that the siphon works is, that one end is athmospheric lower than the other end - if you break up this fact e.g. with this cylinder, its not a siphon technique any more. You will need to apply the same force as you would need to apply with a simple injection or so.

-- Andi