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Author Topic: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched  (Read 68421 times)

Offline xjet

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #120 on: July 08, 2008, 12:31:53 AM »
@nutsNbolts,

I agree. Something is not right here. I threw out the question to xjet of why these investors don't believe him and are putting up money when he says he has %100 scientific proof that it doesn't work. If these guys don't believe him, why should we? It looks as though he has a different agenda.

If xjet wanted to prove to the world that all of these HHO systems are scams, which sounds as though some may be by their extraordinary claims, he would do it differently. He seems to have an absolute negative attitude which probably makes him bias.
You are right -- I *do* believe there is no merit to this H2/O2 rubbish that's being spouted by so many would-be amateur "scientists".

And that's why we have a challenge.

Those who say I'm wrong and they're right are being challenged to prove their claims.

There are always people who will never believe a scientific proof, no matter how many times an experiment or test is reproduced with exactly the same results or how many times the observations are explained by conventional science -- you only have to read many of the posts on this website to see that.

There are always those who believe they are right while the rest of the world is wrong, despite the evidence and the facts presented to them.

This is simply a characteristic of human psychology and explains things like cults and religions.  This "faith over fact" syndrome is strong enough that people are willing to die in the name of their faith - look at JonesTown and Heaven's Gate for two very clear examples of this.

So the only way to prove to all those who will simply never believe the science is to let those who claim to have the answer to demonstrate their claims in an entirely open and independent test that is open to scrutiny by anyone with an internet connection.

That's the way the challenge will work.  And since it was announced there has been a good deal of interest from TV production companies who I'm talking with now about making this into a TV show.  It may be that the scope of the challenge wold be widened somewhat if that were to happen.  Even if a major TV network gets behind this I'm sure there'll still be some who claim it's a scam however :-(

What will the "it works" crowd going to say if none of those who take up the challenge are able to prove, before a global audience in a totally open and objective environment, that they can't obtain the results they're claiming?

Would it convince *you* that this HHO stuff is bunkum?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline icanbeatbob

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #121 on: July 08, 2008, 01:32:48 AM »
@xjet,

If you have absolute truth that it does not work and done properly, yes I would be inclined to believe it. Did the investors see your test data and still don't believe you? It just seems odd. If you can't convince someone intelligent enough that makes enough to put up $1M, your proof may be less convincing for someone as average as myself.

I hope you do expose the scammers. They are out there and should be exposed to the public. I also agree with most of what you say. but don't believe science knows everything. I have to go by what is rational to me, like my friend who has been doing this a while. If, in fact, he comes back to me later and says he was wrong, I would believe him. As long as you are unbias and no one has to give money to get into the offer, then I would be very interested in the results.

Brad

Offline fuzzytomcat

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #122 on: July 08, 2008, 02:56:12 AM »

I've already done tests that conclusively prove that the science is correct and the claims being made by HHO scammers are groundless.

I intend to publish the detail of those tests on the http://interestingprojects.com website shortly but in effect, it showed (as the science predicts) that while the introduction of H2 and O2 (generated from electrolysis) into the intake of an ICE will result in more work being done for a given amount of gasoline consumed, as soon as you ask the ICE to provide the energy needed to perform that electrolysis, the overall system efficiency is *reduced* and indeed becomes negative when compared to an unmodified ICE.

Three tests were conducted three times each, the results averaged and the conclusion was very clear, well outside the margin of error.

Now when I publish these tests, I'm sure that the HHO scammers will simply say "the tests were flawed", "he did it wrong", "it was a deliberate attempt to discredit the technology", etc, etc.


Sir,

 I am very interested in the tests that you have created on the (HHO) Oxyhydrogen Devices, is there a loose ETA when the information would be available ?  I assume the glass "Mason" jam jar is one of the manufactures tested because of the far reaching unbelievable results claimed, can you at least say what manufactures were used or known (HHO) Oxyhydrogen generator types were tested ?

Thank you,
Fuzzy

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #122 on: July 08, 2008, 02:56:12 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline xjet

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #123 on: July 08, 2008, 10:41:23 AM »
I am very interested in the tests that you have created on the (HHO) Oxyhydrogen Devices, is there a loose ETA when the information would be available ?  I assume the glass "Mason" jam jar is one of the manufactures tested because of the far reaching unbelievable results claimed, can you at least say what manufactures were used or known (HHO) Oxyhydrogen generator types were tested ?
The data should be online sometime early next week.

Offline Yucca

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #124 on: July 08, 2008, 11:30:02 AM »
I'm pleased Stefan had the sense to move this thread to the scam section.

xjet,
Why do you feel the need to disprove hho injection? if you think electrolysis and hho injection has no merit then just don't do it? You're making a fool of yourself!

Furthermore, if you think all free energy is a scam then why don't you just goto another forum on the web thats a little more mainstream so that it doesn't upset your obviously delicate constitution.  :-*

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #124 on: July 08, 2008, 11:30:02 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline xjet

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #125 on: July 08, 2008, 11:44:06 AM »
I'm pleased Stefan had the sense to move this thread to the scam section.
It says more about the myopia and bias of the forum admin than the challenge, trust me.

Quote
xjet,
Why do you feel the need to disprove hho injection? if you think electrolysis and hho injection has no merit then just don't do it? You're making a fool of yourself!
Because thousands of people are being defrauded of millions of dollars by scammers who are making outrageous claims about this technology.  Don't the public have the right to know the *truth*?

Instead, all they get are ridiculous claims of "double your mileage" and, when asked why (if this stuff works) it's not already standard equipment on cars being made today they get some fantasy about the auto-makers and oil companies being in some conspiracy" -- yet there is absolutely *NO* evidence presented to support such an outrageous allegation.

Or do you not believe that the public have a right to the truth?

Quote
Furthermore, if you think all free energy is a scam then why don't you just goto another forum on the web thats a little more mainstream so that it doesn't upset your obviously delicate constitution.  :-*
Because I figured "what better place to let those who claim this HHO technology works know about the challenge".

Clearly, when it comes to a situation where those who make all those wild claims are asked to "prove it", they start labeling the challenge as a "scam" and get extremely defensive or go on the attack.

What's wrong guys?  Here's your chance to *prove* you're right and earn big money in the process.

If you choose to avoid being put to the test then I think it only reinforces my claim that this is all bunkum.

Which is kind of what I expected really.

Offline Yucca

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #126 on: July 08, 2008, 01:27:58 PM »
Your proposed competition is somewhat myopic, you don't even specify what you (the almighty judge of the competitiom) would consider engine wear, you can simply move the goalposts as the match progresses, I suspect you wouldn't even proceed with the competition, you'd just take the money and run, only a fool would give you $5k.

xjet said:
"Don't the public have the right to know the *truth*?"


Why just HHO xjet, do have any other ongoing crusades for "truth and justice"? Why don't you camp outside casinos with a sandwich board stating "The odds are against you my friends" I'll tell you why, because you couldn't care less about other people losing money, that's why! QED: you're sugary altruistic coating is nothing but dried out liquid shit.




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #126 on: July 08, 2008, 01:27:58 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline nutsNbolts

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #127 on: July 08, 2008, 03:53:43 PM »
xjet

This thread is in exactly the right place the reason being, from my previous reply
Quote
At best you come across as being contrary in a forum of your disliking and at worst, scamming free motoring...all expenses paid.


Right now all we're getting is http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-572077907195969915      Excuse the humour but by your own volition came here and started this thread.

I was rather hoping you was serious with the million dollar prize 1) because I'm skint and could use extra beer money 2) most importantly to have it proved or disproved once and for all.  To quote you
Quote
the public have a right to the truth
which is a Noble endeavour and worthy of endorsement from both sides of this argument.

Quote
Instead, all they get are ridiculous claims of "double your mileage" and, when asked why (if this stuff works) it's not already standard equipment on cars being made today they get some fantasy about the auto-makers and oil companies being in some conspiracy" -- yet there is absolutely *NO* evidence presented to support such an outrageous allegation.

To be fair some of your points are valid.  Personally I don't buy the whole MIB business but then again I'm not naive enough to believe a government wouldn't stop you from collapsing their economy.

Some of the advertised claims made are wildishly ridiculous which wouldn't stand a chance with UK trading standards law but from the country of origin they have a right to make them (claims).  I also see that as their business and to reminding the world "let the buyer beware".  If a punter thinks a twisty bit of wire in a jam jar is going to return them 60 mpg I think we'll both agree it's not more MPG they should be seeking.  However it's one of those silly adverts that got me into this because I thought to meself "what a load of bollock".  Well hey presto!....there's a whole new world out there.

As for why it's not standard equipment on cars today is a whole new argument.  Just to much stuff out there to even contemplate listing and standardising / regulating to an industry standard for this thread.

Quote
Clearly, when it comes to a situation where those who make all those wild claims are asked to "prove it", they start labeling the challenge as a "scam" and get extremely defensive or go on the attack.

As I said I wish you were genuine but your approach is a tad, excuse my bluntness, Monty Python.  To me and I suspect others here, think you've over promised and under delivered.  Objectively look at it from my stand point.  You have a million dollars then you dont but you have backers with a million dollars.  Monies not up front because a a multi billion dollar company isn't doing it to.  If you are Mr Simpson I've never heard of you like I've heard of Sugar, Branson, Trump, Gates.  Lastly it could be a TV show.  Is that "as well" or instead of ?

As for the alchemy of HHO or what ever you want to call it.  It works.  It's a short term fix that anyone can do, buy or make N bolt on.  It's by no means the end game but doable today unlike the water spark plug but that'll get there.

You'll be one of those arguing the alternator side of the story but negating the burn side of the story I would suspect.  You could even argue better cam timing, spark plugs, inflated tyres or what ever would increase MPG 25%, to which I would agree.  Then the reply would be lets do that too and then bolt on the gizmo's and see how we can increase the thermodynamics of the burn.

Kind regards
Steve

Offline ColdLife

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #128 on: July 08, 2008, 04:22:51 PM »
Everyone stop take in a breath, hold it, release it and calm down. Feel better now?

I'm pleased Stefan had the sense to move this thread to the scam section.

Have you paid any attention to the ads that are on this forum? Half of them seem to be from the same people that xjet are calling scammers. Stefan has a conflict of intrest here. Hmm. make money or move this section to the scam section. I've been reading this forum for a year now and it amazes me everytime that someone tries and takes a scientific/logical approach to the results that people here are seeing, they are belittled and insultated and told to go away "Shun the unbeliever!!!". Look if you want someone to back up xjet I will. I actually laughed when I went to his website. I use to read his stuff several years back. He always seemed to be legit to me (More so the some people on this forum). Everyone on this forum is so ready to believe and not question people that say that they have done what is seemily impossible, yet anyone that wants to say "prove it" gets squashed into the ground. Even this own forums contest has yet to be claimed. Why is that when everyday there is someone new posting that they have discovered the secret to the universe? And yet everyone jumps on board going ohh and ahh. I would love for even a hundered thousandths of what is claimed on this forum to be true, yet there has never been any real evidence proving it is. The most you ever have is two people getting these wonderful results and everyone else mysteriously failing.

The test that xjet purposes is almost industry defacto for what he is purposing. Why is this so hard to believe? Especially when the people on the forum seem to believe everyday that new things are being discovered in people's basements that defy conventional wisdom, and are done in a completly non logical matter.

Your proposed competition is somewhat myopic, you don't even specify what you (the almighty judge of the competitiom) would consider engine wear,


Yes he did it is your standard compare the modified engine to the unmodified engine. If the modified engine has more wear that is bad and doesn't pass. Is that unreasonable?

$5k is cheap for this kind of contest as well.

If you have absolute truth that it does not work and done properly, yes I would be inclined to believe it. Did the investors see your test data and still don't believe you? It just seems odd. If you can't convince someone intelligent enough that makes enough to put up $1M, your proof may be less convincing for someone as average as myself.

Ask yourself why so many people believe we never landed on the moon? You can always show people "proof", but it's still up to the individual to take your proof and believe it.

Now I open the floodgates to being called names and belittled, as I try and bring some calmness and reason to this great thing called life.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #128 on: July 08, 2008, 04:22:51 PM »
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Offline nutsNbolts

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #129 on: July 08, 2008, 05:47:41 PM »
ColdLife
Most of what you say is true and I hope xjet is genuine with the prize but like so many on this forum he's gone off half cocked.  Which doesn't instill confidence I think you'll agree.

Quote
Have you paid any attention to the ads that are on this forum
  Personally I had to go  front page and check those adverts just to be genuine when I say "no I don't" ...ironic of me I know.  There's much better stuff in these threads or youtube or other forums.

As for those punters that fall hook line and sinker for some of the lesser "wares" it is a pity but they only have themselves to blame.  Let the buyer beware is the old old saying.

UK government is looking into power station genorated hydrogen ...oh ffs. (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/confused005.gif)   Infrastructure to transport hydrogen.  Storage infrastructure.  Just so Billy Bunter the stupid punter can pull up a hydrogen fuel pump and fill up.  How crazy is that?  My taxes paid on research to tax the cubic meter.  I mean ffs.  Tax the freaking milage done if we have to be taxed.  Lets get away from fossil fuel or near as darn it. 

I was hoping a genuine prize could get this in the public domain.  Once proven industry might get on the band wagon.  Governments might bank roll some research.  Public might be open to new prospects.

Regards
Steve


Offline maxc

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #130 on: July 08, 2008, 05:50:28 PM »
@xjet.  I suppose you have tested different high mileage fuel systems and found they don't work?
I have a HAFC HHO system on my truck. Way before I put it on my truck, my engine has oil burning problem.
It's limiting my mileage increase. I have a well designed fuel heater. City mileage was 12.5 now close to 16.
It's hard to say what my mileage is with just HHO.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #130 on: July 08, 2008, 05:50:28 PM »
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Offline fuzzytomcat

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #131 on: July 08, 2008, 08:12:11 PM »
Howdy All,

As you can see this is a very hot topic, Mr. Simpson may be the first but certainly won't be the last.

Many inventors have good ideas but not the cash to seek out their dreams, this is my proposal to this Forum and all others involved. A fund needs to be started by the members held in trust for these occasions. A committee of the brightest we have amongst us would look and evaluate possibly submitted complete systems that have merit voted on openly to be sent on their way for the chance at any grand "PRIZE" with our good luck  and praise  behind them.

This has got to be a consorted effort on our part to send off the best of the best where ever and when ever a challenge is made such as this.

We need to stay on top of this one !

Best regards all !

Offline ColdLife

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #132 on: July 08, 2008, 08:49:33 PM »
@xjet.  I suppose you have tested different high mileage fuel systems and found they don't work?
I have a HAFC HHO system on my truck. Way before I put it on my truck, my engine has oil burning problem.
It's limiting my mileage increase. I have a well designed fuel heater. City mileage was 12.5 now close to 16.
It's hard to say what my mileage is with just HHO.

I'm not trying to discredit you maxc (I don't know everything about your situation), but generally of the people that I have read that have seen improvement from HHO it has been on old low mpg vehicles. Most of the time a good cleaning and a tune up as well as just driving more conservative would give you the gains you are seeing. Most modifications to cars they do a lot of different thing in addition to the HHO system but accredit all of their gains to the HHO. This doesn?t make sense to me. It?s like me doing a complete tune up on my car and slapping a sticker on the car and saying all the improvements to the performance was due to the sticker. Maybe I?m wrong I don?t have all the evidence in front of me. Also old motors have a huge potential for increased gains in efficiency because they were not made to be efficient. New motors on the other hand don't have as much room for improvement.

Offline maxc

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #133 on: July 08, 2008, 11:10:52 PM »
I'm not trying to discredit you maxc (I don't know everything about your situation), but generally of the people that I have read that have seen improvement from HHO it has been on old low mpg vehicles. Most of the time a good cleaning and a tune up as well as just driving more conservative would give you the gains you are seeing. Most modifications to cars they do a lot of different thing in addition to the HHO system but accredit all of their gains to the HHO. This doesn?t make sense to me. It?s like me doing a complete tune up on my car and slapping a sticker on the car and saying all the improvements to the performance was due to the sticker. Maybe I?m wrong I don?t have all the evidence in front of me. Also old motors have a huge potential for increased gains in efficiency because they were not made to be efficient. New motors on the other hand don't have as much room for improvement.

It's a 1997 F150. It's rated at 16 city. I got bad gasoline 6 years ago. Replaced injectors ect...Always got 15. to 15.8 city. It only has 91,000 on it back then it had 28,000. Not knowing it had problem it the ECM  too which locked injectors on. Burning them out and washing cly out. All plugs have oil on them!

Offline ColdLife

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Re: The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched
« Reply #134 on: July 09, 2008, 12:51:07 AM »
It's a 1997 F150. It's rated at 16 city. I got bad gasoline 6 years ago. Replaced injectors ect...Always got 15. to 15.8 city. It only has 91,000 on it back then it had 28,000. Not knowing it had problem it the ECM  too which locked injectors on. Burning them out and washing cly out. All plugs have oil on them!

Do have bad seals on the motor or something? I've got a guy that I work with that use to work at one of the Ford plants they built the F-150s at, see if he has any suggestions.

 

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