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Author Topic: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !  (Read 194815 times)

Butch

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #270 on: October 29, 2008, 10:15:43 PM »


 "I can tell you now that moving the source from the compressed portion of the laminations to the gapped laminations and back to the compressed portion causes no variation in the magnetic flux."
BEP,
We would like to see our test results replicated. Can you show on video with a scope that you get no change of flux in the coil core and the voltage stays steady?
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #271 on: October 29, 2008, 10:24:19 PM »

...or they are still trying to figure out how to put a meter on the devices they already have.

An the "research money" Greer wants is really to pay the posse of 'meter minds' he will contract to hook up a meter...so they can make a seamless transition from having a hand in one pocket over to the other.

Regards...


Offline molux

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #272 on: October 29, 2008, 11:06:59 PM »
Hello Sirs,

I try to understand this principe but i'm not natural english speaker and it's hard to understand all you say.

1/ The setup
Do you think this kind of simple setup can be a good firt approch ?
Does the LC resonant frequency be calculated be near the idéal rotation speed (in turn per second) ?

2/ Output évaluation
If i drive this setup with frequency generator (GBF) and choice a good capacitor for my coil i can easly évaluate the input power
But how to simple mesure the output ?

Sorry for my bad english
(Thanks for this interesting thread)

Molux


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #272 on: October 29, 2008, 11:06:59 PM »
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Offline BEP

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #273 on: October 29, 2008, 11:20:13 PM »
BEP,
We would like to see our test results replicated. Can you show on video with a scope that you get no change of flux in the coil core and the voltage stays steady?
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

Like I said 'zero circuitry'. I have a coil around one section of the stator for pickup purposes only. With my scope on 100mv/Div it barely registers when turned quickly by hand. If it shows continued promise I'll likely start another thread as it is nothing like what you've presented. Sorry, I'm busy enough proving to myself I am not an idiot so I rarely 'replicate' another's work.

Design is nowhere near complete. I need to include positioning screws for adjustments of axial/radial postion and balance. So far it looks like I'll have to beg for CNC time at work.

I'm doing all design on AutoCad with good measurements so once I can present it as useful or a complete mistake the info will be good.

Thank goodness this idea is in no way related to my previous works so I'll have no problems posting info. It uses part of the concept you proposed but includes others I haven't seen public before. I hope to have a POC to post by next week but can make no promises, yet. Then you can all tell me it is something done before but I seriously doubt it.

BTW: FEMM is useless on this.

Offline molux

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #274 on: October 29, 2008, 11:28:35 PM »
Dear Sirs,

Do you think it's possible to evaluate the system with this kind of benchmark ?

We can mesure the electrique power input, and try different weigth to find the bigger the setup can push to up ?

Can you tell me if i completly misundurstand the concept ?

Thanks for read me

Molux

Edit: I  just find this great link to understand well the concept, great doc, thanks butch for open source :
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:LaFonte_Perpendicular_Magnetics_Motor
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 11:49:44 PM by molux »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #274 on: October 29, 2008, 11:28:35 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline BEP

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #275 on: October 30, 2008, 02:21:32 AM »
@Butch

If you haven't already I suggest you replace the rod holding the washers (tipping experiment) with something nonferrous and repeat the experiment.
I suspect the spreading washers increased the 'attraction zone and flux for the rod', between the magnets. This should also require more weights to cause tipping. 'Attraction zone' is not a formal term AFAIK.

This may start another battle but the washers, now magnets, focus more magnetic flux separated than compressed. This increase in flux concentration should also create a stronger pull on the horizontal rod. If the rod is nonferrous there should be no increase in focused flux and the distance between the washers should not be as great.
Hope this is helpful  :)

Butch

  • Guest
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #276 on: October 30, 2008, 02:34:07 AM »
Like I said 'zero circuitry'. I have a coil around one section of the stator for pickup purposes only. With my scope on 100mv/Div it barely registers when turned quickly by hand. If it shows continued promise I'll likely start another thread as it is nothing like what you've presented. Sorry, I'm busy enough proving to myself I am not an idiot so I rarely 'replicate' another's work.

Design is nowhere near complete. I need to include positioning screws for adjustments of axial/radial postion and balance. So far it looks like I'll have to beg for CNC time at work.

I'm doing all design on AutoCad with good measurements so once I can present it as useful or a complete mistake the info will be good.

Thank goodness this idea is in no way related to my previous works so I'll have no problems posting info. It uses part of the concept you proposed but includes others I haven't seen public before. I hope to have a POC to post by next week but can make no promises, yet. Then you can all tell me it is something done before but I seriously doubt it.

BTW: FEMM is useless on this.
BEP,
Looking forward to posting of your progress.
Hope all goes well.
Butch

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #276 on: October 30, 2008, 02:34:07 AM »
Sponsored links:




Butch

  • Guest
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #277 on: October 30, 2008, 02:35:35 AM »
@Butch

If you haven't already I suggest you replace the rod holding the washers (tipping experiment) with something nonferrous and repeat the experiment.
I suspect the spreading washers increased the 'attraction zone and flux for the rod', between the magnets. This should also require more weights to cause tipping. 'Attraction zone' is not a formal term AFAIK.

This may start another battle but the washers, now magnets, focus more magnetic flux separated than compressed. This increase in flux concentration should also create a stronger pull on the horizontal rod. If the rod is nonferrous there should be no increase in focused flux and the distance between the washers should not be as great.
Hope this is helpful  :)
BEP,
The rod is non-magnetic stainless.
Butch

Butch

  • Guest
Reply to Molux
« Reply #278 on: October 30, 2008, 02:54:20 AM »
Hello Sirs,

I try to understand this principe but i'm not natural english speaker and it's hard to understand all you say.

1/ The setup
Do you think this kind of simple setup can be a good firt approch ?
Does the LC resonant frequency be calculated be near the idéal rotation speed (in turn per second) ?

2/ Output évaluation
If i drive this setup with frequency generator (GBF) and choice a good capacitor for my coil i can easly évaluate the input power
But how to simple mesure the output ?

Molux,
I believe the rotary approach is the best way. Look at this video and tell me what you think.
Also, the best way to test this theory for true overunity is to use a scope to show that the supply voltage/current is constant when the rotor is moving and doing useful work.
Below is a link for the youtube rotary basic layout for testing the concept. It will need proximity switch added. The final product will need resonance element in design.
Feel free to write me if you have any questions. lafontegroup@charter.net
Here is video link > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7a8rEEAfLM     and      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IpN0oRL-ls
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
PS
Molux, my english is bad and I was born and raised here in the United States.


Sorry for my bad english
(Thanks for this interesting thread)

Molux



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Reply to Molux
« Reply #278 on: October 30, 2008, 02:54:20 AM »
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Offline BEP

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #279 on: October 30, 2008, 03:47:05 AM »
BEP,
The rod is nonmagnetic stainless.
Butch

Thanks for that info. So the metal is probably type 300. Likely 316 stainless steel? I used 316 stainless steel fasteners in one project and found the metal to have an effect on the shape of the field but only while moving within the field.

Still, I'm puzzled why there is so much difference in attraction to the magnets when compressed or released. If the rod was ferromagnetic it would explain it. Perhaps the washers are easier to saturate while compressed? Your test results would be unwanted when dealing with the laminated rotor I described above. I want no differences between compressed and expanded and have none but none of the early tests I did were as inventive as yours.

Butch

  • Guest
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #280 on: October 30, 2008, 05:08:01 AM »
Thanks for that info. So the metal is probably type 300. Likely 316 stainless steel? I used 316 stainless steel fasteners in one project and found the metal to have an effect on the shape of the field but only while moving within the field.

Still, I'm puzzled why there is so much difference in attraction to the magnets when compressed or released. If the rod was ferromagnetic it would explain it. Perhaps the washers are easier to saturate while compressed? Your test results would be unwanted when dealing with the laminated rotor I described above. I want no differences between compressed and expanded and have none but none of the early tests I did were as inventive as yours.
BEP,
We are running more tests on this fixture, will let you know results. Also, this is another way to achieve overunity if configured correctly. We will try to explain in a video.
Butch

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #280 on: October 30, 2008, 05:08:01 AM »
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Offline MarkSnoswell

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #281 on: October 30, 2008, 09:44:11 AM »
I just scanned the thread and was surprised that no one has realized the effect described is a macroscopic analog of negative magnetostriction.
The same effect you see in a stack of washers happens at a molecular level in most feromagnetic materials -- it is called magnetistriction. Materials like iron and cobalt have positive magnetostriction coefficients-- which means they elongate along the direction of magnetic field and shrink tangentially. Materials like Nickel have a negative coefficient and shrink lengthwise but grow tangentially to the magnetic field.

In a solid material you can tune magnetoeleastic effect to achieve magnetoacoustic resonance -- something that would be extremely difficult in the devices you are making.

Dating right back to Hans Coler's devices there is evidence that magnetoacoustic resonance is a viable method for generating excess energy.

Offline molux

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #282 on: October 30, 2008, 10:21:06 AM »
Hy,

Quote
Molux,
I believe the rotary approach is the best way. Look at this video and tell me what you think.
Also, the best way to test this theory for true overunity is to use a scope to show that the supply voltage/current is constant when the rotor is moving and doing useful work.
Below is a link for the youtube rotary basic layout for testing the concept. It will need proximity switch added. The final product will need resonance element in design.
Feel free to write me if you have any questions.
Thanks a lot for information and help Butch

I just find your article on PESWiki, so interesting....
This setup, with coil correction (Horizontal vs vertical) and the length of magnet is a very good idéa for mesurment.
(http://peswiki.com/images/0/0a/LAFONT_Magnetic_Motor_animation_300x300_by_Kevn.gif)
We can compute input and output with just voltmeter, ampermeter and frequency generator ...

Now i understand why someone speak about this lamp for generator
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5064.0;attach=26950;image)
(I have this one)

Thanks a lot for all this interesting information Butch

Molux


Molux

Offline Koen1

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #283 on: October 30, 2008, 04:53:29 PM »
Is that coil in the animated pic wound correctly?
Doesn't look like it...

But it would be nice to see someone do a real test on such a setup,
not just repeating the basic idea...
Has anyone tested the combination of this "magnetic spring"/"fanner effect"
with such a fairly simple "shakable flashlight" inductor?

It may be that the combination causes increased losses which were
not obvious in testing the seperate "magnetic spring" mechanism...

A bit like the effects that many people get when they try to close the loop
by using their apparent OU output as input again; For example, the MEG
principle appears to work quite nicely as long as the input and output energy
flows are not allowed to interact, but when they close the loop the thing stops working.

I'm not saying that this is necesarily going to be so in this setup, but I am saying
that I think this may need some actual testing to avoid nasty surprises like some
inventors have had.

And you must admit that this setup is actually simple enough for people to build one,
so instead of remaining stuck in the theoretical discussion part of it, where's the
build attempts? There's none? That's odd... ;)

Butch

  • Guest
I told Sterling Allen it was drawn incorrectly
« Reply #284 on: October 30, 2008, 05:12:13 PM »
Is that coil in the animated pic wound correctly?
Doesn't look like it...
And you must admit that this setup is actually simple enough for people to build one,
so instead of remaining stuck in the theoretical discussion part of it, where's the
build attempts? There's none? That's odd... ;)
Koen,
The coil is wound Wrong. I told Sterling Allen that his animator drew it wrong and he said he would not change it. So it looks like it's stuck there forever drawn the wrong way. The wires should be wound horizonal in the illustration. It's very misleading the way it is now. It makes me look like I don't know what I'm doing. Maybe that was the purpose of it.
Butch

 

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