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Author Topic: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !  (Read 191847 times)

Offline wizkycho

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #225 on: October 21, 2008, 10:54:43 PM »
Well yeah, that was clear from the start.
But that's something completely different from the idea you have so aggressively been pushing over the past weeks,
where you claimed that it is possible to produce 50:1 overunity by moving the magnets to and fro.
Mwahaha raaaaaight.... And you dared to accuse me of pompous posts? LMAO :D

But really, you were so very adamant that you can produce 50 times the input energy using this "fanner" principle,
but you still haven't shown it. Shouting very loudly that you are convinced it is so is no proof. Show it.
Build a simple setup in which the elements you indicated as crucial are incorporated, so there's the washer stack,
the magnets, the mechanism to move the magnets, and the magnetic equilibrium mechanism, and your piston,
and the collector coils, and then input an X amount of energy and show that you measure 50X the output energy.
Do that, and I shall graceously admit that I was wrong in doubting your claims and attitude.
But keep shouting "it is so!" with zero empirical foundation, and I will just keep replying "I don't think so". :)

Hi koen1 !

which setup would you recommend me to build:
- with rotating cilindrical magnet (charley_Vs proposal)
- or linear moving magnet-core pair proposed by my drawing
- or Simple to build Hildebrand but magnetic transistor type motor (MEP_motor - magnetic energy pump motor)
- or Genesis Type of magnetic trans motor
- or just tell me what type of device you prefere.

or nothing above has chance of giving FE

Thanks for advice

Wiz

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Kevin Mc Carthy

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #226 on: October 22, 2008, 12:48:40 AM »
Advise welcome. I would like the groups advise on a proposed V design magnet build. I was thinking a N42 3/4" by 2" cylendar magnet between two steel plates drilled for the magnets accomodation with a 1/2" gap filled with aluminum. The washer section would be surrounded by steel with the exception of the 1/2" gap. The washers would be thin and strapped ( epoxy) together in 2 sections perhaps 1/2"thick.

The object would be to 1) transfer rotational force to rectolinear force, 2) measure the input and output forces, strokes and distances, 3) calculate input to output work, 4) report results.

Prior to starting what recommendations do you have?

Offline g4macdad

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Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #227 on: October 22, 2008, 02:30:02 AM »
Hi Dave S. and Butch,
great to hear that you both finally have come to the conclusion that
Butch was the first one to think about this and
has put it out  9 years ago.

As Dave did not know this and Butch did put out so many designs,
which many of them lacking a good andwell explained descriptions, it is no wonder,
that is was ignored for so long.

As Dave realized this principle on his own and told me
privately about it, also without me knowing that Butch had already
put it out 9 years ago, I was baffled when I learned it later
from Dave and Butch, that it was already out.

When Dave did not yet know about it being already published by Butch long time ago,
he still wanted to get a patent about the basic idea and then he
learned from Butch, that it was already in the public domain.

Now it is good to see, that many people can use this and Dave still
can patent his own work for real machines based on it, so he at least
gets some reward for all his simulation work which he showed me in parts privately.

I think he has proven with his FEMM simulations that this principle is
THE BREAKTHROUGH in "cracking the magnetic code", how Dave called it
and is the most promising principle
of an overunity motor.

Too bad, Butch did not explain it better 9 years ago, so more people
would have understood it and already worked on this long time ago.

But anyway, now as it is out, this is the best "new"(old) magnet overunity motor
principle ! ;)

Regards, Stefan.



With all due respect Stefan, that is the biggest lump of double talk mumbo jumbo I have ever read.  ???

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #227 on: October 22, 2008, 02:30:02 AM »
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Offline Discworld

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #228 on: October 22, 2008, 11:17:28 AM »
@Stefan

I want to comment with something a little offtopic, I know it is easier to keep some action in a board by dropping in headlines like this "Cracking the Magnetic Code ! OU motors with a 50:1 output:input now possible !"

But honestly thats a very unreliable yellow press style.

In my eyes this actually is just another "working" theory not more not less. When I read stuff like that:

>> Q. How many others have replicated the effect so far?
 A. "Yes, one that I know of, but has asked to remain anonymous due to fear of action from big oil against himself and family." <<

everything about it turns noncredible to me. What would be the easist way to prevent action from big oil? Release a working plan to the world.

Would you tell the world if you´d have invented the gold replicating machine? No you would not.
In my eyes there are only 3 attitudes about this.

1. Someone lives on a higher level than capitalism and believes he could help the world. This one would release a working plan of such a machine.
2. Someone believes in money. This one would never release a working plan to the world.
3. Someone has a theory but it is nothing more than a theory. This one is releasing the idea to the world in hope that someone makes it a working machine.
In fact it might work but he forgets that the one who makes it a working machine probably won´t ever release his plans unless he is type 1.

So ishouldn´t the headline say: OU motors with a 50:1 output:input now THEORETICALY possible !
To be serious.


Offline Ergo

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #229 on: October 22, 2008, 02:01:28 PM »
But really, you were so very adamant that you can produce 50 times the input energy using this "fanner" principle,
but you still haven't shown it. Shouting very loudly that you are convinced it is so is no proof. Show it.
Build a simple setup in which the elements you indicated as crucial are incorporated, so there's the washer stack,
the magnets, the mechanism to move the magnets, and the magnetic equilibrium mechanism, and your piston,
and the collector coils, and then input an X amount of energy and show that you measure 50X the output energy.
Do that, and I shall graceously admit that I was wrong in doubting your claims and attitude.
But keep shouting "it is so!" with zero empirical foundation, and I will just keep replying "I don't think so". :)

Hello Koen1

I'm with you in this matter and I have thought a lot about it lately and I think I have found the reason why it won't work.
As usually when people go crazy over something and totaly believe they have found the holy grail they always miss
out on something that "they didn't think of". And that scenario is repeated every time. Sometimes thinking is of good use.

The thing is: A setup using a line of washer piles placed between a moving horseshoe magnet will have an unwanted effect.
The nearby piles will also get repelled by the magnet and it declines from the center of the strongest magnetic field, being the magnet.
The repel force from the washers will spread out on all affected piles of washers. And the accessible power is consumed by inertia.
So this is the nail in the coffin on the washer idea...To bad, for a short while I really hoped we had something good going on here.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #229 on: October 22, 2008, 02:01:28 PM »
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Offline wizkycho

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #230 on: October 22, 2008, 04:39:01 PM »
Hello Koen1

I'm with you in this matter and I have thought a lot about it lately and I think I have found the reason why it won't work.
As usually when people go crazy over something and totaly believe they have found the holy grail they always miss
out on something that "they didn't think of". And that scenario is repeated every time. Sometimes thinking is of good use.

The thing is: A setup using a line of washer piles placed between a moving horseshoe magnet will have an unwanted effect.
The nearby piles will also get repelled by the magnet and it declines from the center of the strongest magnetic field, being the magnet.
The repel force from the washers will spread out on all affected piles of washers. And the accessible power is consumed by inertia.
So this is the nail in the coffin on the washer idea...To bad, for a short while I really hoped we had something good going on here.

This is just your negative assumption ...where is your negative experiment ?

Why would mag. flux go sideways if direct path (shortest path) is not satturated ?
Of course it wan't !!! It can not. flux chooses shortest possible path with less mag. resistance.
 
Even Spetrum 16k will tell You:
"C nonsense in basics"

Wiz

Offline Ergo

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #231 on: October 22, 2008, 05:05:06 PM »
I'm not negative, I'm realistic and I also know a thing or two about magnetic flux lines.
It will take the route past the other washer as well because ut tries to find the easiest path
that is the furthest away from saturation. Try it on and you'll see I'm right in this matter.
The only way to prevent the other washers from being affected is to increase the air gap
between the piles of washers, but then you'll face a sticky spot when trying to leave the pile.

When you have realised I'm right here, I expect a public excuse in this thread for all your
yelling, stubbornness and sassy behavior when told how things hang together.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #231 on: October 22, 2008, 05:05:06 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #232 on: October 22, 2008, 06:17:29 PM »
@wizkycho and @Ergo:

The soft iron core with the square washers in there really must be driven via a LC tank at the resonance frequency,
otherwise you will not get any high OU COPs.

Mechanically driving it with magnets makes not much sense to me.

Just try a coil with a cap and go for resonance at the same
frequency as the washers reciprocate.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline altium

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #233 on: October 22, 2008, 06:23:16 PM »
Any results with real experiment?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #233 on: October 22, 2008, 06:23:16 PM »
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Offline wizkycho

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #234 on: October 22, 2008, 07:18:47 PM »
I'm not negative, I'm realistic and I also know a thing or two about magnetic flux lines.
It will take the route past the other washer as well because ut tries to find the easiest path
that is the furthest away from saturation. Try it on and you'll see I'm right in this matter.
The only way to prevent the other washers from being affected is to increase the air gap
between the piles of washers, but then you'll face a sticky spot when trying to leave the pile.

When you have realised I'm right here, I expect a public excuse in this thread for all your
yelling, stubbornness and sassy behavior when told how things hang together.

No excuse cause you are teribly wrong.

Magnet flux doesn't act as electron current . Electron current will lineary of resistance devide its curents through two paths. complete magnet flux will not devide proportionaly(lineary) of mag resistance but whole of it will pass through one path with less resistance, while it has larger permeability.
big difference. You are talking complete nonsesne.
Permeability means most desireable path for mag flux. How can You possibly think that flux will jump over air that has perm of only 1 ?
rather than go through not saturated material of desireability 5000. Have You ever seen B-H curve ? no I don't think so. saturation starts sudenly not lineary. means mag. res. starts to be huge sudenly not linery with applied field. before that resistance of perm material is much much much lower than 1mm air gaps resistance
Hey man, this is 5000 to 1 that you are talking nonsens.(exprimentaly meassured !)

Why would magnet flux detour for a longer path for no reson (mag. res. didn't rise (not satturated) - on the other hand mag.res of 1mm air gap is huge) ?, only to make you happy that you destroyed logic. I think You should detour from this forum.

O man do think, please someone tell him to worm up his chair.

I can publicly only call for You to be banned from this forum, cause you say something is not working not giving it a slightes tought. what a destroyer. You are destroying this forum...this is clear.

And even more important you don't make any ,not even simplest experiments, to prove your "wannabe it is so" theories. You act destructively Man, how can't you get it, change your perspective and try from now on think Why something is working. This is important most of all. That way you will learn more. And You'll be able to combine principles that work into eventuall FE setup. The way You see things nothing can work. not even underunity devices. 

Wiz

(some words and sentances, since I am civilized, were not appropriate in previous letters - so I'm making appology to others that read one of my
previous replays - but it was provoked too many times) This is not in anyway appology to whome these replays were directed to.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 07:46:32 PM by wizkycho »

Offline AbbaRue

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #235 on: October 22, 2008, 07:50:40 PM »
Even if what Ergo says is correct, I don't see how it effects the overall concept.
No one said anything about placing the washers right next to each other in the system.
Just take two magnets and place them next to a stack of washers. 
It doesn't take much distance to stop the effect.
Once I find the time I hope to build a small prototype of a concept I had in mind.
Just a simple demo setup.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #235 on: October 22, 2008, 07:50:40 PM »
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Offline wizkycho

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #236 on: October 22, 2008, 08:38:53 PM »
Interesting to see Ergo and Koen1 incorporated but without experiment with negative result.Just BLA, BLA.
They are practically fighting fabric of Space itself and they are not aware of it....placing walls, where there aren't any, just to be able to head bump them...well that's were the world is now, so nothing new.

I still am well assured that this can do 50 or 100 to 1

why:

(this all aplies for one slide move of magnets and nothing is saturated)

- permeable flux from magnets is free,
- we can put as much magnets as we want/can and not influencing base mechanicall friction to rise in manner more magnets more friction.
  so mech friction is constant
  on other hand output lineary rises with number of magnets.
- no sticky points when moving magnets (flux always has same short permeable way to close upon other pole, bending (doesn't go through air if it doesn't have to ;D) very slightly(unmeassureable small force - 1/1000th of force that magnet develops on fanner) when passing 1mm gap.
- if many magnets are used (mass rises) free spring action can be used for slide back and preserving mass velocity momentum and convert vector for 180deg (if full cir. 360deg) lowering input requirements even more.

 :D :D :D

Wiz


Offline wizkycho

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #237 on: October 22, 2008, 09:18:16 PM »
Hello Koen1

I'm with you in this matter and I have thought a lot about it lately and I think I have found the reason why it won't work.
As usually when people go crazy over something and totaly believe they have found the holy grail they always miss
out on something that "they didn't think of". And that scenario is repeated every time. Sometimes thinking is of good use.

The thing is: A setup using a line of washer piles placed between a moving horseshoe magnet will have an unwanted effect.
The nearby piles will also get repelled by the magnet and it declines from the center of the strongest magnetic field, being the magnet.
The repel force from the washers will spread out on all affected piles of washers. And the accessible power is consumed by inertia.
So this is the nail in the coffin on the washer idea...To bad, for a short while I really hoped we had something good going on here.

this is another replay on funny picture posted by Ergo (at least he could use some mag sim program that will show him different)

(everything here applies on never saturated material)
(rectangles between magnets are edges of permeable material - not air inside rectangles)

It is so that poles will close on each other in a red line fashion and only in that fashion.

in his Ergos world magnets will close flux with blue lines. Funny picture isn't it

it is as funny as watching cartoon Strippy (anyone seen this cartoon ?)

Wiz

Offline Ergo

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #238 on: October 22, 2008, 09:21:30 PM »
Mechanically driving it with magnets makes not much sense to me.
Sorry, I was focused on the mechanically solution that wizkycho was pushing so hard.
If "driving it via a LC tank at the resonance frequency" solution makes any difference is yet to be seen.

Magnet flux doesn't act as electron current . Electron current will lineary of resistance devide its curents through two paths. complete magnet flux will not devide proportionaly(lineary) of mag resistance but whole of it will pass through one path with less resistance, while it has larger permeability.
I have never mentioned this mix up. This is your interpretation of my words.
I know exactly how flux lines travel and interact. Don't put words in my mouth I have never spoken.

Permeability means most desireable path for mag flux. How can You possibly think that flux will jump over air that has perm of only 1 ?
Simply because the washers can't handle the flux from the nearby neos. In order to handle all the flux the washers must be just as
wide and high as the neos, namely a solid block of iron. Let's say the washer area is half the height of the neo area.
This means that the flux of approx 1.36 tesla is driven to 2.72 tesla if all of the flux should pass through the washers. But it can't.
It will stop at 1.7 tesla and seek another path. Why 1.7 tesla. Simply because this is where the saturation starts to have an effect.
Did you get that wizkycho? The washers have only HALF the area of the neomagnets. This is why the excess flux escapes the washers.
That crappy childish picture you posted above is just so wrong. You misslead people in magnetic understanding. It's bad. Please get educated.

Have You ever seen B-H curve?
In daily basis. It's part of my jobb. The correct name is actually B/H curve, not B-H curve.

I can publicly only call for You to be banned from this forum, cause you say something is not working not giving it a slightes tought. what a destroyer. You are destroying this forum...this is clear.
What kind of BS is this. You show your childish narrow-minded perception abilities by this statement.
I have never threatened you or been abusive. I have just told the true facts that you totaly refuse to believe or even consider.
When does a man destroy a forum by a sane logic discussion? It's you with your bad attitude that is destructive.

you don't make any ,not even simplest experiments, to prove your "wannabe it is so" theories.
I have made my fair share of experiments in my earlier days but once you get past the entry level of understanding
magnetics you can see in your mind how the outcome will become. This is when you truly can see the magnetic
interaction of a contraption in your mind because you know almost all parameters involved in the setup.
When you come to that level (if ever) we might be able to have a civilized discussion.

Not even Hartiberlin believes in your idea. Why is this so. Because his eduction level is good and he can see the flaw himself.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5064.msg133710#msg133710

I haven't provoked you once but you behave as I am the worst case of scum alive. I just told you some basic facts you rejected badly.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 09:52:11 PM by Ergo »

Offline wizkycho

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #239 on: October 22, 2008, 09:51:01 PM »
Sorry, I was focused on the mechanically solution that wizkycho was pushing so hard.
If "driving it via a LC tank at the resonance frequency" solution makes any difference is yet to be seen.
I have never mentioned this mix up. This is your interpretation of my words.
I know exactly how flux lines travel and interact. Don't put words in my mouth I have never spoken.
Simply because the washers can't handle the flux from the nearby neos. In order to handle all the flux the washers must be just as
wide and high as the neos, namely a solid block of iron. Let's say the washer area is half the height of the neo area.
This means that the flux of approx 1.36 tesla is driven to 2.72 tesla if all of the flux should pass through the washers. But it can't.
It will stop at 1.7 tesla and seek another path. Why 1.7 tesla. Simply because this is where the saturation starts to have an effect.
In daily basis. It's part of my jobb.
What kind of BS is this. You show your childish narrow-minded perception abilities by this statement.
I have never threatened you or been abusive. I have just told the true facts that you totaly refuse to believe or even consider.
When does a man destroy a forum by a sane logic discussion? It's you with your bad attitude that is destructive.
I have made my fair share of experiments in my earlier days but once you get past the entry level of understanding
magnetics you can see in your mind how the outcome will become. This is when you truly can see the magnetic
interaction of a contraption in your mind because you know almost all parameters involved in the setup.
When you come to that level (if ever) we might be able to have a civilized discussion.

Not even Hartiberlin believes in your idea. Why is this so. Because his eduction level is good and he can see the error himself.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5064.msg133710#msg133710

I haven't provoked you once but you behave as I am the worst case of scum alive. I just told you some basic facts you rejected badly.

What You just said is confirmation of my previous post. You do not understand how undesireable air path (desireability only 1) is for magnet flux especially if prolongs path - (not direct path) (side air 1mm gap.) it must allso go back through that gap now 2mm. there is no reason mag flux would do that.

washers together have more then enough material (surface) not to satturate. Natures Calculator is enormously fast it is clayirvoiant it knows the path in advance. It wan't allow to saturate one washer and then seek another. flux will devide equally through washers. none of those washers gets saturated and they still represents shortest path. that last sentance is enough to know that complete flux wan't go a stray.

But even if you do not see this let's say that air gap between rectangle washer stack and overlaping permeable metal is 0.25mm
this is possible.

still got You over 50 to 1  ;D   Nature and Space is astonishing in so many ways and You don't see Any of it.

Wiz

 

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