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Author Topic: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !  (Read 194930 times)

Offline carbonc_cc

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  • Posts: 91
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #210 on: October 18, 2008, 05:44:41 PM »
Charlie_V:  Very intriguing.  I like the idea.  I will try and test with my previous setup later.   :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TechStuf

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  • Posts: 1280
    • Biblical Record Proves True
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #211 on: October 19, 2008, 12:48:02 AM »

Quote
Unless you can produce the related math, some drawings, video and test results I can only assume you are a policeman.


LOL


Speaking of donuts, I wonder what's the latest scoop on the Hadron collider?

Offline BEP

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
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  • Posts: 1289
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #212 on: October 19, 2008, 03:06:19 AM »
Huh? You mean that big TPU that crosses country borders?

<Speculation> I haven't checked lately but I would think they still haven't found the guy that hit the kill switch  :o </Speculation>

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #212 on: October 19, 2008, 03:06:19 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline TechStuf

  • Hero Member
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  • Posts: 1280
    • Biblical Record Proves True
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #213 on: October 19, 2008, 03:43:43 AM »

Yeah, you'd think that for 10,000 Million dollars they could be slightly more responsible.


I hope I'm there to see it when that balance sheet is settled once and for all.


God:  So, you spent enough bills to reach to Mars to find the 'Me' particle?

Arrogant Peons: yeah, aren't we clever?

God: Surely, you are familiar with my Golden Rule...

Arrogant Peons: Of course, we learned that in grade school.  He who has the gold makes the rule, uh....right?

God: After appropriating enough money to feed the planet several times over, I'd hate for you boys to be disappointed, so I'm going to let you see the God particle, better yet, you'll get to BE God particles.  I'm sending you to a bottomless pit you refer to as a 'Black Hole'. 


Have a nice trip and watch your step!


lol



TS

Offline wizkycho

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  • Posts: 465
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #214 on: October 20, 2008, 12:37:23 PM »
@charlie_V and all !

reminded me of magnet lifter which is used worldwide in many types of industry
knowone has yet determined here if these thingies can be used for something OU or not.
Nor are they made for maximum lifting moment or distance it can catch weight or for easilly switch the lever. (think the first applies)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3979.msg74303#msg74303

allso I have linear proposal

block with magnets moves left right, moving rectangular washers move yellow shaft (not completely drawn)
block with magnets can be long as You want (or can make it)
two or more blocks can be made in paralel.- two shafts
LaFonte driver and fanners should be made with silicon iron sheets or some other anti eddy current technic.

block of magnets is easily moved (small Mech friction)

not all rotational parts are drowen.

Wiz
Perihelion Labs

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #214 on: October 20, 2008, 12:37:23 PM »
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Offline newton2

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #215 on: October 20, 2008, 04:38:39 PM »
Hello to Honoured Overunity-Forum-Profiles
and to The Honoured Administrator  !!

Thanks about Your respective various many interesting
important Discussions-points-and-details in this fruitfull
continued going-on Theme of Topic+Replies !!

Might I kindly disturb Your interesting Discussion by this
my mere brief short Reply´s-Text :

THE MAGNETICAL BASE  !!

Yes....I self have a filled-up Box of some various numbers of
various Magnetical-Base-Models of that Method mentioned some few Days
back  !!

HOW TO REALIZE AND INTERPRETE ABOUT THE FUNCTIONAL WAY
OF SUCH A MAGNETICAL BASE........:

**
WHAT is IN FACT going on when adapting-mounting to an EXTERIOR PLANE IRON-PLATE
such a Magnetical-Base-Unit..........
IT "CLAMPS" in Its LOCK-POSITION then as FIRMLY per H-influenses
in the EXTERIOR IRON-PLATE to the EXTERIOR IRON-PLATE.......!!

Well-then...as MOSTLY KNOWN :
WHAT a LOT of counter-force to be performed by Human Fingers
to would loosen-away in LOCK-POSITION......several hundreds of "newtons".....at least...
.............or more at most !!

**
THOUGH THEN IF TO SHOULD LOOSEN-AWAY BY TURNING FROM ON->to->OPEN
Position then THE ARM´s HANDLE on The Unit.......
Yes.....THERE ALSO IS A "FELT" COUNTER-FORCE AGAINST TURNING FROM
LOCK->to->OPEN........
might be easily measured per an elder "Spring-Weight" mounted and held steady as
perpenducular to the Unit´s-Release-Arm..........

**
MIGHT THERE EVENTUALLY BE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE
[NECESSARY-TORQUE APPLIED TO Unit´s-Arm  x  Way/Angle-Distance of turned Unit´s-Arm]--
Physical-Work-Done
AND
THE
[NECESSARY-GREAT-LIFTING-FORCE FROM IRON-PLATE x The VERY-SHORT-Lifting-Off
                                                                                      Iron-PLate-distance]--
Physical-Work-Done....................!!

**
When lifting as "raw-forced" OFF the Unit directly from IRON-Plate ,
THEN is on for a VERY SHORT DISTANCE a necessary HIGH Force to
should apply.......
then afterwards only little Force of H-magnetical Origin (plus then eventually some
                                             (otherwise Gravitational Force because of
                                              also lifting The Unit in a G-Field )

**
NOW WHEN LOOSENING PER TURNING Unit´s Arm from ON->to->OFF....
then the ROTATIONAL PERMANENT-MAGNETE´s respective 2 H-Poles
(Terms of Elder Classical Magneto-Statics)  are moved many
[little "angle-step--to-step"] AWAY "over" "longer" Distance/Angle
from The Unit´s Own 2 INTERNAL-Iron-permeabilities-
Plates (Plates of not of permanent magnetism) ]..........
though STILL a WORK is done of TURNING FROM ON->to->OFF ,
namely the Part of a H-pole as being moved AWAY from the H-influensed
IRON-PLATES in THe UNit ......
somehow like in surden Electro-Motors-Layouts-TOPOLOGIES / METHODS !!

**
In a Way of Popular Physics Explanative Speakings ....THEN :

in a "subtle" Way there is a kind of "Magnetical Gearing" of Necessary Applied
Forces all depending on  :

IF per the "RAW" directly PULLING-OFF THe Unit from the EXTERIOR LARGE
IRON-METALS-PLATE

or

IF per the more "continuously" Necessary- Applied Force of the
INTERIOR-THe-Unit  H-poles-moving-away-from-opposite-signed-H-pole !!

**
Some few numbers of Processes-Steps-depicting
 Elementary Sketchings would "GREATLY" demonstrate
 the ALL of such a Magnetical-Base-Unit´s Method !!

MUCH MORE QUICKER TO REALIZE ABOUT THAN NUMEROUS MANY
EXPLANATIVE SENTENCES !!

**
APROPOS :
HOW ABOUT TO HAVE IN-BE-TWEEN THe Magnetical-Base-Unit´s Outer-H-Poles(of the ON-Position)
and
THE EXTERIOR LARGE METALLICAL-IRON-PLATE
then placed a single thin A4-writing/printing-on Paper-Sheet....
quite enough to demonstrate
about the significant THEN-ALTERED-VALUE of
necessary "RAWLY"-applied-Force to MOVE AWAY
The Unit´s Outer-H-poles to Exterior Metallical IRON-PLate
.........to say : WITH or WITHOUT having such a SINGLE A4 paper-sheet in-be-tween.......!!

AND THEN ALSO TO DEMONSTRATE AN ALTERED NECESSARY TURNING-TORQUE
TO THE Unit´s Arm to TURN from ON->to->OFF  !!
.........to say :  WITH or WITHOUT having such a SINGLE A4- paper-sheet in-be-tween....!!

--------------------------

THANKS ABOUT YOUR  MANY INTERESTING IMPORTANT CONTRIBUTIONS
TO THIS CONTINUED DISCUSSION OF OU-per-Magneto-Statics and per Electro-Magnetics...!!

PLEASE MENTION EVEN MORE....of course with due Care for Your various Own Ideas and
Copyrights...etc !

-------------------------

WKR & have Yourselves a nice Day and Labouring Week and a pleasant Late Autumn !

And still a little to early to would greet about : Hoo-Hooo.........etc !! 

Offline Charlie_V

  • Sr. Member
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  • Posts: 362
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #216 on: October 20, 2008, 05:17:44 PM »
@wizkycho

The idea at http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3979.msg74303#msg74303 with the holder/lifter and the coils will not work because the back EMF from the coil will make it very difficult to rotate the diametric magnet in the center.  That's why I think it would be perfect for this project since the inductance change between the gap is "suppose" to be equal all the time. 

Your idea of using the ring like you show in your picture is good but the problem is that the magnet/core things are not going to leave the washers very easily.  This will cause all the energy gained from the pistons to be lost due to magnetic stiction.  You might be able to balance the movement of the magnet/cores with a second row/piston setup that was to the side and 90 degrees out of phase with the first.  Personally I think keeping the magnets inside the core and just rotating them like I drew would give the best results.  And really, I'm not convinced this setup has constant inductance - if it does we could possibly get overunity, if not then its a lost cause - another energy converter.

@newton2

Cocaine is a really bad drug man.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #216 on: October 20, 2008, 05:17:44 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline AbbaRue

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  • Posts: 587
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #217 on: October 20, 2008, 07:41:55 PM »
@wizkycho
A combination of the rotating magnet and the pistons you drew are the best idea I've seen yet.

Offline Yucca

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #218 on: October 20, 2008, 08:09:10 PM »
Yes, nice design Wiz!

Yucca.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #218 on: October 20, 2008, 08:09:10 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Butch

  • Guest
Saturation is paramount in this design
« Reply #219 on: October 20, 2008, 10:21:18 PM »
To keep the core flux density of this device as constant as possible during the period the moving elements are moving, saturation is very important. It's hard for the flux density to change in the coil core if the core circuit stays at saturation.
More video coming soon, I have around 5000 files to sort through.
Free energy for all,
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

Butch

  • Guest
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #220 on: October 20, 2008, 10:29:35 PM »
Hi guys, I started reading this thread with a keen interest.  Then I got busy and haven't had the chance to come back to it till now.  I would like to offer an idea/opinion.  This is a very interesting concept but the main task is going to be how you alter the magnetic field across the washers (I guess I'll call them washers for now even though they can be just about anything - beads, metal donuts, etc.)  Although I'm not totally convinced that it maintains a constant inductance across the gap, it does appear that the inductance change is small.  It seems like everyone is trying to devise a way of using electromagnets to change the field. 

So I would like to offer a different idea.  Have any of you ever used a magnetic base?  I work in laser research and we use these things a lot in our optical setups - they work well with our giant steel tables.  This Wikipedia page explains how they work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_base

When the V part of the holder is against steel, you can turn the diametrically magnetized magnet very easily.  However, if you hold it in air, you'll find it very difficult to turn the magnet to the "on" position.  Basically when a ferrous metal is bridging the gap to the V, it allows a path for the flux to flow in the "on" position and the magnet will spin very easily. 

Well, this would suit this project perfectly!!!  If you placed your dowel rod with washers in the V part of this holder, then (assuming the inductance does not change much in the gap) the diametric magnet should be easily rotated.  As you rotate the magnet, the washers will move back and forth.  If the inductance is really constant, placing a load on the washers should not affect the magnet rotation.  I think you'll find this method very easy to construct and should work way better than an electromagnet.  I've included a picture of the setup for clarity - I have not tried this and don't really have the time. 

If anything, this will quickly allow you to determine how the system works.  If the magnet is hard to move when the washers are forced in the "closed" position (aka heavily loaded), then this is not a constant inductance gap and probably would not produce overunity.  However, if the rotation is easy to spin regardless of washer loading, then we have a great step forward!

Hope it helps,
Charlie
Charlie,
Great idea!
Butch

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #220 on: October 20, 2008, 10:29:35 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Koen1

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  • Posts: 1172
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #221 on: October 21, 2008, 02:34:07 PM »
This stack fanner idea, except for Free Energy extraction (and lots of it) - cause magnetic field is free, can be used as it is without moving magnets as spring - very efficient magnetic spring or even dumper for automotive aplications...I mean there is no any possibilty magnet will ware off due to overcounterpolarization. Finally Magnetic Dumpers possible  :D  :D  :D...even extraction of energy (if made as variable reluctance - washer can go out of field) when bumping on the roads...tremendous possibilites with these thingees...or energy absorbers-redirectors when cars crash...
Well yeah, that was clear from the start.
But that's something completely different from the idea you have so aggressively been pushing over the past weeks,
where you claimed that it is possible to produce 50:1 overunity by moving the magnets to and fro.

Quote
When someone builds a factory of such springs or dumpers send me a first Million of profit - this no joke at all, it is worth even more.

Still kicking some serious crap out of unbelievers asses. Stupid Unbelievers go away from this forum you are allways wrong.
Mwahaha raaaaaight.... And you dared to accuse me of pompous posts? LMAO :D

But really, you were so very adamant that you can produce 50 times the input energy using this "fanner" principle,
but you still haven't shown it. Shouting very loudly that you are convinced it is so is no proof. Show it.
Build a simple setup in which the elements you indicated as crucial are incorporated, so there's the washer stack,
the magnets, the mechanism to move the magnets, and the magnetic equilibrium mechanism, and your piston,
and the collector coils, and then input an X amount of energy and show that you measure 50X the output energy.
Do that, and I shall graceously admit that I was wrong in doubting your claims and attitude.
But keep shouting "it is so!" with zero empirical foundation, and I will just keep replying "I don't think so". :)



[/quote]

Offline wizkycho

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  • Posts: 465
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #222 on: October 21, 2008, 04:39:25 PM »
@wizkycho

The idea at http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3979.msg74303#msg74303 with the holder/lifter and the coils will not work because the back EMF from the coil will make it very difficult to rotate the diametric magnet in the center.  That's why I think it would be perfect for this project since the inductance change between the gap is "suppose" to be equal all the time. 

Your idea of using the ring like you show in your picture is good but the problem is that the magnet/core things are not going to leave the washers very easily.  This will cause all the energy gained from the pistons to be lost due to magnetic stiction.  You might be able to balance the movement of the magnet/cores with a second row/piston setup that was to the side and 90 degrees out of phase with the first.  Personally I think keeping the magnets inside the core and just rotating them like I drew would give the best results.  And really, I'm not convinced this setup has constant inductance - if it does we could possibly get overunity, if not then its a lost cause - another energy converter. seems like only mech friction to overcome, very very good.

     In any such rotating lifting magnet there is need to be kind of mechanicall cog (that mech cog mechanism reqiure very small and always constant E in - no matter number/strenght of mags) that will when magnet gets in position assure it will stay in that position while fanners are done with work. Coils are here to (re)direct (rotate) magnet. What is very good thing here (and in your proposal is that rotating magnet in center needs to move only 90 degrees (if full cir.360 deg) and I allso am very sure that for that is needed very small energy scince fanner - "WEIGHT" (it would be if lifter) is allways there (same and available inductance).seems like only mech friction to overcome, very very good.

LaFontefanners_by_knitel
magnet core pair (moving left-right) are moving in linear (what ring ???) fashion will move very easily cause gap between two closeest fanner stacks is only 1mm flux easily bends-jumps over that short distance. it will move exactly the same as if fanner stacks are connected - no cog at all. I tried this and 1mm gap moving magnet doesn't feel at all. just pure mech friction needed to overcome.
(nothing is supposed to be in satturation here)

I still  can not decide which is better rotating cilindrical magnet type or my proposed linear moving magnet core pair ?

Offline newton2

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  • Posts: 64
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #223 on: October 21, 2008, 05:32:14 PM »
Hello Honoured  OverUnityForum-Profile        Charlie_V  !!

Thanks about Your important writing a warning
against Alcoholics and Drugs , etc !!

I also warn against such Destructive Matters & Means !!

WKR & have Yourself a nice Day and a pleasant Late Autumn  ! 

Offline AbbaRue

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  • Posts: 587
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #224 on: October 21, 2008, 09:42:02 PM »
I like the rotating magnet idea because a line of these magnets would fit nicely onto one shaft and then you just need to rotate the shaft.
I'm just not sure if the magnetic field will obey us and follow the iron core around to were we want the most concentration of magnetism.
When the magnets are placed directly beside the washers the field has no choice but to pass through the washers from pole to pole.
But once you try to bend and redirect the field it may choose a different path.

Has anyone experimented with different thicknesses for the washers to see what would be ideal.
Is it better to have many thin washers or fewer thicker washers?
Also what size of magnets are we looking at here?
Could we use a number of smaller magnets placed in a row or should we use single large surface area magnets?
 

 

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