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Author Topic: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !  (Read 191952 times)

Offline Ergo

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #90 on: October 10, 2008, 02:37:47 PM »
If You still don't see BALANCING OU Try Hildebrand (magnetic transistor...)
The Hilden-Brand device has no amplifying effect. It only reroutes the flux. Calling it a magnetic transistor is wrong.
And there is no proof of overunity when using the Hilden-Brand device in a motor. No matter what Jack himself tells us.
I have eperimented a lot with Jacks valve lately but I have not yet seen any overunity.
In all my experiments there was no net gain from the increased force. Simply because the magnet in the circuit shifted the B/H
curve of the iron and I had to reverse it back when rerouting the flux. This took the same amount of energy as the magnet added.

You sound like you never tried to unstuck NdFeB two magnets one from another
I have worked with the largest and most dangerous magnets in my day jobb. No hidden mysteries there.

Regarding the rest of your "explanation" it's still just rambling. Nothing you say makes any sense on how to obtain the 50:1 overunity.
Even if you eliminate the "sticky points" that you refer to as cogging, then you still have to add energy to create movement.
If not it will not rotate or move back and forth or what ever you desire. There is no free lunch here.

If you see something here I don't, then please enlighten me using good technical terms in a friendly calm explanation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have read you new post. Still no words on how to obtain the 50:1. Just a flashy GIF on movement.
How will you keep the input 50 times lower than output? You should know that balancing magnets towards each other cannot yield overunity.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline wizkycho

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #91 on: October 10, 2008, 03:20:17 PM »

The Hilden-Brand device has no amplifying effect. It only reroutes the flux. Calling it a magnetic transistor is wrong.
Permanent Magnet is SOURCE (infinite) of flux. small flux input - large flux change at output (ring a bell !) small current input -
large current change at output. how would you call it rerouter !?, no matter how we call it it has same effect on output AMPLIFICATION.
And there is no proof of overunity when using the Hilden-Brand device in a motor. No matter what Jack himself tells us.
well don't use it as motor use it HERE with Lafonte fanners - moving part (fanner) is allways close, unlike rotors...
I have eperimented a lot with Jacks valve lately but I have not yet seen any overunity.
In all my experiments there was no net gain from the increased force. Simply because the magnet in the circuit shifted the B/H
curve of the iron and I had to reverse it back when rerouting the flux. This took the same amount of energy as the magnet added.
I have worked with the largest and most dangerous magnets in my day jobb. No hidden mysteries there.
All other experiments are with positive results (only in this topic) here prove You Wrong - flux at output is amplified, oh yes it is !Coil and magnet develops many times (3 to 4) more force than only coil itself... it is TRUE, we only need best way too utilize it.
Please show us Your negative experiment.Material not adequate ? you have used too strong magnets parhaps? To many RPMS ?

Regarding the rest of your "explanation" it's still just rambling. Nothing you say makes any sense on how to obtain the 50:1 overunity.
Again
Energy Peak is lost or most of it (heat or break) within intramolecular excahnge in mass of material if too short Peak (and here is short) no matter how Powerfull that energy peak is. so even Flywheel can not help cogged setup.Even if you eliminate the "sticky points" that you refer to as cogging, then you still have to add energy to create movement.
but only for overcome friction, not additional losses of strongshortpeaked energy - inertia related.
If not it will not rotate or move back and forth or what ever you desire. There is no free lunch here.
Lots of Free Lunch here, see my prev animation.

If you see something here I don't, then please enlighten me using good technical terms in a friendly calm explanation.
We need only to find I think way to gather fanner forces to one energy extraction point...
I was somehow harsh cause I saw someone disccarding very legitimatly OU idea like something that cat brought in.

wiz

Offline wizkycho

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #92 on: October 10, 2008, 03:22:53 PM »
And Yes

When I think One can here Rhumble And Thumble and Rhoooam...

Wiz

------------------------------
still don't see it

can we agree that magnet can easily trevel from one fanner to other no stickys at all ? (I say Yes)
can we say that energy for moving (mechanicall friction) magnet is 1/10th of energy that fanner can develop ? (I say Yes - it is very possible to have that strong magnets and taht low friction )

Multiplay magnet pairs by five (make this gif longer, more fanners...). pure mechanicall friction stays 1/10th. mechanical energy of all fanners is now 5 times greater so 1/50 of force of magnets goes to friction. here is your 1/50 OU mode.

Please Ergo tell me that you see it now.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 03:44:34 PM by wizkycho »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #92 on: October 10, 2008, 03:22:53 PM »
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Offline Ergo

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #93 on: October 10, 2008, 04:00:17 PM »
Can you make a better view/animation on the "free lunch" of the this contrapment? This GIF showed nothing vital.
It should help everybody to grasp what you are trying to tell us. Your english is very bad and it's difficult to follow your resoning.

Please do not mix colored sentences in this way of yours.
Keep your replies separated down below the questions or remarks you are answering.
That will make it a lot easier for us to render what you mean.

Last but most important. How is the power sequence of the motor looking?
When do you add energy, and how often, and for how long?
Don't forget that energizing a coil at on/off is not the same as being static energized.
It takes a lot more power to overcome the high inductance of an electromagnet at high speeds compared to static mode.
You need to raise the voltage, thus also the power, just to get the fast rise time of the coil current you desire in a motor.

Offline wizkycho

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #94 on: October 10, 2008, 04:29:22 PM »
Hi Ergo ! (for the last time)

you are again rude. why ? cause you are blind - it is your choice

Even much simpler english then mine is sufficient to describe to smart open minded how it works.

draw yourself better picture , You are the one that reffuses to understand. Like a child (they are ok, but You should now better)

protocol for good behaviour of Yours:
In the future You must say Why something is not working, and not just spit if you don't see it at first. After you truly see it
you must admitt that You were blind and at least say thanks - cause I made an effort to make You See.

Stay Ignorant ! If you wan't or say thanks I see it now. Don't waste My TIME by NOT addmitting YOU WERE WRONG.
other way you'll be more and more wrong.

take advice from the best

Wizard

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #94 on: October 10, 2008, 04:29:22 PM »
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Offline carbonc_cc

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #95 on: October 10, 2008, 04:30:43 PM »
If a weight was added to the top of the washers (non-magnetic). 
Would the free movement of the magnets passing by the washers become restricted because of the weight on the washers? 

i.e. The resistance of the magnets traversal would be directly porportional to the weight on the washers... 
The more weight, the more resistance for the magnet traversal.

Offline wizkycho

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #96 on: October 10, 2008, 04:41:03 PM »
If a weight was added to the top of the washers (non-magnetic). 
Would the free movement of the magnets passing by the washers become restricted because of the weight on the washers? 

i.e. The resistance of the magnets traversal would be directly porportional to the weight on the washers... 
The more weight, the more resistance for the magnet traversal.

No, magnet pair doesn't "feel" anything (no reactance, no force) of what is happening with washers,
(but under condition washers are not oversatturated).

Wiz

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #96 on: October 10, 2008, 04:41:03 PM »
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Offline carbonc_cc

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #97 on: October 10, 2008, 04:52:02 PM »
I understand that to be true with the (un-saturated-magnetic) washers. 
Due to the fact that they have magnetic properties the flux lines want to short circuit through them;
so they move into position without too much resistance. 

But if a non-magnetic weight was applied on top of the washers, what affect would it have on the magnet's path? 

I am unable to verify at this time.





Offline Raui

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #98 on: October 10, 2008, 05:03:42 PM »
This concept is simply amazing. Its so logical that I am amazed that no one has thought of this before. I wish you luck with all your work Butch :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #98 on: October 10, 2008, 05:03:42 PM »
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Offline Ergo

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  • Posts: 280
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #99 on: October 10, 2008, 05:21:35 PM »
you are again rude. why ? cause you are blind - it is your choice
I'm not rude. I'm just asking you over and over to explain the 50:1 ratio. So far you have not explained how this is obtained.

Even much simpler english then mine is sufficient to describe to smart open minded how it works.
draw yourself better picture , You are the one that reffuses to understand. Like a child (they are ok, but You should now better)
I cannot draw any conclusion on this contrapment until you finaly manage to explain the 50:1 ratio.
You clearly see something I don't, but you can't or won't explain this to me or for the rest of the folks here for that sake.

protocol for good behaviour of Yours:
In the future You must say Why something is not working, and not just spit if you don't see it at first.
I have never spitted on this device but I have questioned on how the 50:1 ratio is being obtained.
Somehow you refuse to answer how you calculate the 50:1 overunity from this device.

After you truly see it
you must admitt that You were blind and at least say thanks - cause I made an effort to make You See.
Stay Ignorant ! If you wan't or say thanks I see it now. Don't waste My TIME by NOT addmitting YOU WERE WRONG.
other way you'll be more and more wrong.
More and more I'm starting to feel you belong to the "belivers" that have had a revelation but you can't explain it for "non believers"
But as long as you belive there is hope.....in your world....so to speak. It's like a religion. You just have to believe....

If I'm wrong in my last statement, then for gods sake, please explain how this device is 50:1 overunity.

Offline Ergo

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #100 on: October 10, 2008, 05:39:58 PM »
can we agree that magnet can easily trevel from one fanner to other no stickys at all ? (I say Yes)
can we say that energy for moving (mechanicall friction) magnet is 1/10th of energy that fanner can develop ? (I say Yes - it is very possible to have that strong magnets and taht low friction )

Multiplay magnet pairs by five (make this gif longer, more fanners...). pure mechanicall friction stays 1/10th. mechanical energy of all fanners is now 5 times greater so 1/50 of force of magnets goes to friction. here is your 1/50 OU mode.

Please Ergo tell me that you see it now.

Sorry, I missed this message from you, simply because of your odd expressions. Not being rude, I'm just telling you.

But I can tell you that your saying is not true for a fast moving motor.
The discs will not have the time to shift position simply due to sheer inhertia.
And if you make the discs to thin they not have the power to perform any useful work.
Least but not last, the mechanical solution to extract power from repelled fanners will consume any excess energy.

In my book there's still no free lunch here. But feel free to build it and surprise me. Hopefully I'm wrong in this matter.
You see, I want overunity as well. Just like anybody here. I'm not against it you know, but I have to question solutions that doesn't seem to add up.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #100 on: October 10, 2008, 05:39:58 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline wizkycho

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  • Posts: 465
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #101 on: October 10, 2008, 05:43:41 PM »
I understand that to be true with the (un-saturated-magnetic) washers. 
Due to the fact that they have magnetic properties the flux lines want to short circuit through them;
so they move into position without too much resistance. 

But if a non-magnetic weight was applied on top of the washers, what affect would it have on the magnet's path? 
I am unable to verify at this time.

If weight (or part of it) is inside magnet pair, material for weight must be non permeable (rel. mag. perm. 1 same as air) and non conducting 
so it would not induce eddy currents.

Wiz

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #102 on: October 10, 2008, 05:49:19 PM »
@All

Hi;

I began reading this thread only recently and it really look like you have
something impressive.
 
First, I wanted to say that to me;  recruitment -> implies overunity.
 
The external high remnance magnets, recruit magnetic domains in the lower
remnance steel washers. Since domains in these washers are being recruited
radially, these washers then in turn repel each other perpendicularly to the
radial field, and washers move apart.
 
Note, that at least some extra force created in the stack remains in the stack
of washers and that indicates force/energy gain. One should also note that
except for losses (like lenz law losses) the force trajectory should be the
same going out as coming in and therefore a machine that supports
two opposite phases (like a seesaw) should be able to null out force
imbalances if they prove a problem.
 
One can see that even in a stator field array of magnets that creates a "magnetic
wall", the rotor composed of one of these stacks should adapt to the magnetization
of wall rather than fight it as there is no permanent magnet there, so I think sticky
points because of "walls" will be minimal.
 
I propose that a really good way to test this would be to place one of these expanding
stacks inside a toy balloon and form a bellows volumetric displacement pump. This could
then, as broli proposes, form a gravity wheel by transferring a working fluid between one
reservoir and the next on opposite arms of the machine.
 
One would propose to first use a local electromagnet to power the antisymmetric
volumetric stacks and get the wheel timing optimal then later switch to PM's to
do same operations.  Lenz law losses seem could be reduced by slower RPM
of the wheel movement if necessary.
 
I feel that this is a better proposal then trying to build a mechanical machine
straight away as one must get "mechanical impedance matching" correct
the first time, or else the method may be blamed.
 
 
:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline wizkycho

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #103 on: October 10, 2008, 06:02:50 PM »
Ergo Ergo Er go go go go ......!

Progression Session 1 - or help THA MAN to come to it's senses.

look at the animation and answer honestly (not religiously) to Me and Yourself this two questions.

can You agree that magnet pair can easily trevel from one fanner to other no stickys at all and there is no resistance from fanners no matter the weight applied ?

can You say that energy for moving (mechanicall friction) magnet can be (good construction) only 1/10th of energy that fanner can develop ?

If answer is NO think again or say why do not You think so, fair enough ?

Wiz

Offline Topguner

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #104 on: October 10, 2008, 06:07:09 PM »
If I'm wrong in my last statement, then for gods sake, please explain how this device is 50:1 overunity.

Ask Stefan, he is the one that posted the 50:1 overunity claim.

 

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