Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 893828
  • *Total Topics: 15704
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 3
  • *Guests: 16
  • *Total: 19

Author Topic: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !  (Read 194447 times)

Offline Yucca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 884
Re: Magnetic OU principle, Can we drop by?
« Reply #75 on: October 09, 2008, 12:59:51 PM »
Yucca,
If you get it running could we come by your shop or home to take a look at it running.
Regards,
Butch LaFonte

Hi Butch,

You sure can but my home/lab is in southern Spain.

If it does run (I hope it does!) it maybe better if I posted one to Stefan in Germany, I doubt I could get 1 watt out with collector coils so I wouldn't be eligible for the prize, but I think everyone on here would trust his appraisal and inter European parcel post is quite reasonable.

I'll be making a youtube vid of the results either way.

All the best, Yucca.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, Can we drop by?
« Reply #75 on: October 09, 2008, 12:59:51 PM »

Offline rha8b

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #76 on: October 09, 2008, 01:59:30 PM »
@infringer
You stated earlier that you had produced a replication of the fanner magnet setup using washers etc,
If possible, could you post a photo of this setup, I am interested in testing it for myself.

Thanks,
-rha8b

Offline Koen1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1172
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #77 on: October 09, 2008, 04:06:19 PM »
but you need TWO "Lafonte HARMONICS" ( IIIII ), constructed on this principal:

while one magnet pair ENTERS first IIIII , the other magnet pair LEAVES other IIIII (at a same angle and distance)

that way net IN energy is only friction. OUTPUT is pure strenght of magnets. ;)

Wiz

Is that so?
I haven't read everything in this thread entirely, but I got the impression that the main idea
was to use the seperation of the filaments to produce output... And that, in order to do that,
we need to have them seperate by magnetic means, then "fall together" again, then seperate
again, and so on...
Now if we have a magnet pair "enter" the position that causes the filaments to seperate, at the
same time that the previous magnet pair "exits" the position, would that not cancel out the
"fall together" action? If the filaments stay seperated because they constantly "see" a flux
from a magnet pair, then how exactly are we going to use the seperating action to produce
output at all?

I suspect I have missed something crucial somewhere...?
Please point out where I lost track, if anyone has spotted that point. ;)

I also missed how exactly we arrive at a 50:1 OU factor...
I'll read the thread again, but would really appreciate if any of you could briefly comment. :)

Regards,
Koen

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #77 on: October 09, 2008, 04:06:19 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline wizkycho

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 465
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #78 on: October 09, 2008, 05:29:56 PM »
Is that so?
I haven't read everything in this thread entirely, but I got the impression that the main idea
was to use the seperation of the filaments to produce output... And that, in order to do that,
we need to have them seperate by magnetic means, then "fall together" again, then seperate
again, and so on...

Yes It Is So

Now if we have a magnet pair "enter" the position that causes the filaments to seperate, at the
same time that the previous magnet pair "exits" the OTHER position,

would that not cancel out the
"fall together" action? If the filaments stay seperated because they constantly "see" a flux
from a magnet pair, then how exactly are we going to use the seperating action to produce
output at all?

the way you missinterpreted it - it would ? (missing OTHER)

I suspect I have missed something crucial somewhere...? You missed WORDS, read carefully
Please point out where I lost track, if anyone has spotted that point. ;)

I also missed how exactly we arrive at a 50:1 OU factor... read my replay 58
If cogging is eliminated menas that device is megnetically balanced (angles of exits enters are same)
- only friction IN, Complete magnet strenght OUT.
I'll read the thread again, but would really appreciate if any of you could briefly comment. :)

Regards,
Koen
Wiz

Offline infringer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 800
    • mopowah
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2008, 12:50:35 AM »
Yucca,

I look forward to the results of your build weather good or bad a video says many words thank you for the hard work.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2008, 12:50:35 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Ergo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2008, 09:08:18 AM »
I also missed how exactly we arrive at a 50:1 OU factor... read my replay 58
If cogging is eliminated menas that device is megnetically balanced (angles of exits enters are same)
- only friction IN, Complete magnet strenght OUT.

You ramble, wizkycho.
Cogging has nothing to do wether a device is overunity or not. Can anyone please explain precisely how this device is supposed to be 50:1 overunity.
In my opinion there is nothing remarkable going on. The discs are naturally repelled from each other when a field is applied.
The magnetic field source can come from moving permanent magnets or static electromagnets but there is always a cost involved.
And there is nothing speaking for the cost being less when using discs compared to a ordinary solenoid with a center hole that is pushing/pulling a rod magnet when energized.
It is exactly the same principle. As long as no one can justify the 50:1 claim I will reject this as another wishful thinking.

Offline wizkycho

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 465
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #81 on: October 10, 2008, 10:15:10 AM »
Ergo !

Cogging represents NEGATIVE INERTIAL MASS-FORCE INCREASE - MUCH MUCH more ENERGY INPUT to unstuck,
start machine...once started vibrations are developed and other mechanicall problems that increse LOSSes to the point
machine is unuseable and wobble... althogh at first may seem that foreward attracction in one time will balance with reverse attraction in other point...
You can underestimate force of 1 magnet but do not underestimate forces of many - You just wan't be able to make workable machine
It is just simple practical advice , very simple to understand - no ramble about it.

To overcome that magnet attracctions to fanners needs to have BALANCED forces on shaft - NET attractions on shaft at least at most of the times zeroed if not allways or drastically reduced

ONE magnet pair leaves one fanner while OTHER magnet pair enters other fanner. both magnet pairs on same "shaft"
So no matter how many BALANCED magnet pairs we use 50 or 100 energy for friction input stays same - BUT output is twice
with 100 than with 50 - so You see how 50:1 - Maybe Dave Squires has other much better Idea , would love to hear it.
If not balanced more magnets you use more Inertial "PROBLEMS"

Wiz

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #81 on: October 10, 2008, 10:15:10 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline wizkycho

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 465
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #82 on: October 10, 2008, 10:32:48 AM »
And Ergo !

Cogging in this PM ONLY machines has much if not everything to do with OU.
DON'T MIX cogging in todays MOTORS - GENERATORS, cause vectors of attractions are different and in this PMM Only there is no
REPEL forces as such or as function of Lenz. Many differences.

You see that no matter what you put on output fanner it DOES NOT effect input
So please explain where do You see Cost in Input E? Or why this can not be OU ?

Wiz

Offline Ergo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #83 on: October 10, 2008, 11:43:16 AM »
No wizkycho, eliminating cogging has nothing do do with overunity.
This is where you don't understand physics.

An output from a motor or any other moving device is entirely created by torque and speed.
Just because you eliminate cogging you still have to add power to create torque.
My claim is that the input power is equal or higher than the output from a device using this new "dics" contraption"

If you can explain how great torque is created from this setup at none or very small power input then I might reconsider my stand.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #83 on: October 10, 2008, 11:43:16 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline BEP

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1289
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #84 on: October 10, 2008, 12:21:34 PM »
No wizkycho, eliminating cogging has nothing do do with overunity.
This is where you don't understand physics.

@Ergo,

If possible, please provide a link or reference where 'physics' shows a motor or generator that has no 'cogging' or 'sticky point'.

Thanks,


BEP

Offline Ergo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2008, 12:43:17 PM »
@Ergo,
If possible, please provide a link or reference where 'physics' shows a motor or generator that has no 'cogging' or 'sticky point'.

My thesis was not to prove motors being free of cogging. It was just that it has nothing to do with overunity.
Any regular electric motor using skewed laminations have extremely low cogging.
Every electric motor using air coils without any steel lamination is absolutely free of cogging.

http://www.ampflow.com/ampflow_motors.htm
Quote:
The S28s have skewed armature laminations to eliminate the heavy "cogging" that results from using the extremely powerful neodymium magnets.

Here's an air coil motor with no cogging at all.
http://www.thingap.com/

Just google more on this and find out about it for yourself.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2008, 12:43:17 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline wizkycho

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 465
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #86 on: October 10, 2008, 01:23:45 PM »

No wizkycho, eliminating cogging has nothing do do with overunity.
This is where you don't understand physics.

If Cogging (NdFeB magnet pair stucked on thick fanner) is present in this setup You need to generate Energy Peak/s.
If using 100 magnet pairs (why not) You will need 1kW (for at least second) Energy peak to unstuck the machine.
Now where would you get that ? but If do supply that E You get that material will start to bend - wobble, bearings streching - Losses that will prevent overunity to happen. Energy peak of that sort is thousends of times greater then when magnets are BALANCED.
Only E friction needs to be overcomed In every point of rotation. No need for massive and heavy rotors to integrate those energy peaks.
You don't understand Physics - and practically You sound like you never tried to unstuck NdFeB two magnets one from another
Try It and Imagine the Force to unstack 50 pairs. If you can not Imagine than Open Your Mind. This sounds only practical. but it is allso reason for OU. When working with that extreme short and very high energy peaks then parasitic Inertia comes into account and ITS still undefineable losses (by todays science), massive flywheels necceserry...but still...
no OU. cause complete energy is lost within (not observable) vibration (caused by Energy Peaking) in material !!! believe it.



An output from a motor or any other moving device is entirely created by torque and speed.
Just because you eliminate cogging you still have to add power to create torque.
My claim is that the input power is equal or higher than the output from a device using this new "dics" contraption"

If you can explain how great torque is created from this setup at none or very small power input then I might reconsider my stand.
If You still don't see BALANCING OU Try Hildebrand (magnetic transistor...)

wiz

Offline Koen1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1172
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #87 on: October 10, 2008, 01:27:43 PM »
Ah, good. I knew I wasn't a complete idiot. ;)
So there's more people who want to hear exactly how we arrive at the 50:1 ratio, it seems.
I feel that Ergo is right in his comments regarding the cogging thing.
"How does this produce 50:1 output-to-input?" is answered by "well, we don't use cogs!"
and that is still no explanation. A cogless setup will still need to somehow produce
50 times more output energy than you put in, and the omission of cogs does not
magically make that so. The 50:1 must be in the cogless setup to begin with, it
doesn't result grom omitting the cogs, does it? If it did, then surely the entire
50:1 thing has more to do with some magic cogging trick than with magnetism...

So how does the seperation of filaments add to the rotation of the wheel?
I can imagine that we may be able to create a somewhat balanced situation where
the removal of the filaments from the magnetic field is comensated by the introduction
of a second field on the other end of the filaments, so that no additional 'drag'
is produced...

Oh, hold on, that's what you mean by "cogging", isn't it? You're not talking
about cogs at all, you're talking about a magnet rotor/stator assembly getting
"stuck" at the "sticky point"...? Is that it? Jeez... Ok, if that's what you mean,
then please forget my above rambling on cogs.
But I still want to know where you get your 50:1 ratio, because even in a completely
dragless rotor you should only get out what you get in, like 1:1...

And that still doesn't really explain why the wheel would move continuously...

I expect Wyzkycho to reply overly aggressive again.. seems to be his style... ;)

(@Wyzkycho: can you please not reply using those horrible RED CAPITALS?
It's really simple, you just click on "quote" and whenever you want to insert a
reply you just add "[/quote] Your Reply |quote]" and the quoted block will be interrupted
by your reply. It looks much better and is much easier to read that way. Thanks.)

Offline BEP

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1289
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #88 on: October 10, 2008, 01:50:45 PM »
@Ergo,

I'm not questioning your thesis. I'm doing research and terminology used is a problem. What is called cogging here should probably be called 'detent'.

What I'm looking for is a current example of a generator that has no detent effect (throughout the load curve) and zero torque ripple and no variation of torque regardless of  load.

I am very familiar with the motor types your references present. When the windings are shorted there is a definite resistance to rotating the shaft (yes, I'm referring to the ones without a brake).
In inductor terms - an inductor that has absolutely no CEMF (CEMF and BEMF are not the same, info for others, not you Ergo. I gather you understand the difference.)
To use terms common here, a Lenz-less generator or motor (not affected by Lenz's law). Most should agree such a thing does not exist? Anyone, if it does a patent number will be appreciated  :)

>>Edit...

Keon1 is correct..  Drag is the issue..

Yes, the amount of flux will not change whether it is routed through a compressed stack of washers (and naturally they will separate from each other) or when they are repelling each other - as long as the same amount of washers are there.

The question is - what use is this? Piston like action? Ramps? something else.....?


Offline wizkycho

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 465
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #89 on: October 10, 2008, 02:22:38 PM »
This simple (not too good) animation will give You 50 to 1 = O to I !

pic explain:

cyan-greenesh -> ferromagnetic stack, quadratic shaped (in stack isolated one from another and sufficiently thin to dissable eddy currents)

blue--> magnet north
red --> magnet south

strenght of magnets must never satturate fanners

So E Input is just friction - E output is Full mechanicall strenght of magnet
"Multiply this setup" times you want and friction INPUT stays the same, mechanicall OUTPUT multyplies by magnet pair times.

Again
Energy Peak is lost or most of it (heat or break) within intramolecular excahnge in mass of material if too short (and here is short) no matter how Powerfull so even Flywheel can not help cogged setup. remmember that.

This is balanced and smooth

Wiz

this can be made rotational setup but have no slightest idea how to couple mechanics of "multiphase" fanners to one energy extraction point.

maybe my avatar is scarry. this is two dark templars (Protos from Starcraft game) combined in energy archon who when clicked says "we need energy"

 

OneLink