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Author Topic: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !  (Read 194816 times)

Offline newton2

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2008, 01:58:01 PM »
Hello Honoured OVERUNITY-FORUM-PROFILES !

Might I kindly briefly mention about the interesting proposed Method :

**
the Importance of how to specify the Materials´s H-Magnetical-Properties

**
in the interesting proposed Method have been
included 2 various Methods-Concepts.....
though the attempted proposed Method´s "Self-Running"
do NOT as a total Functioning "benefit" from such
2 various Methods-Concepts

**
the Circumstance of possible "90degrees"-Forces-Actings
because of included H-permeabilities-materials.....
an Elder Methods-Concept as HERE :
the "going-by" "Ultra-magnetes-Rods" seemingly
might H-influence on the "Pistons-Iron-Bricks" asa
"giving" adequate-enough Force-Force-Actings betwin the
"Bricks".......and THAT Methods-Concept DOES FUNCTION in
an other Circumstance than attempted to would use in this
interesting Construction......

Might I kindly continue as soon as possible

WKR & have Yourself a nice Day and Weekend and Fruitfull
Science/Technics-Results !

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Yucca

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2008, 02:55:38 PM »
After looking at it I realised the sketch I posted above should have more than one pair on neos on it...

It would be better to have a few pairs of attracting neos to give a longer power stroke like this:

Offline infringer

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2008, 04:49:11 PM »
Newton2,

Can you state things more clearly?

So what you are saying is it will not work? Or what are you saying?

Yucca,

Seems you are the only fella in it for the people... The rest seem to want to squander there ideas in hopes of squandering money from the 2nd great depression and its inhabitants.

My question to you Yucca is how do you intend to keep this machine running? Constatly will it not simply level out and stop running after swinging back and forth a couple of times thus needing the intital start up energy as well.

The other question is this power stroke you talk of. Would it not be better to first find the proper timing and have magnets around the entire wheel or both wheels ....

How about having a stationary bar magnet on one side and only one wheel say on the right side with the round neos.

hrmmm this is interesting design to start with and expand on other ideas are in my head as well... but for now I will leave it at this ...

I would like to consider sticking to the design stage for a while before building because we can picture the workings of this thing mentally.

Thank You Yucca,

Your a real stand up guy man.

-infringer-
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 05:14:43 PM by infringer »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2008, 04:49:11 PM »
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Offline infringer

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2008, 06:23:44 PM »
So is this a way we can keep say a pendulum swinging possibly?

Similar design right.

Offline 4Tesla

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2008, 01:12:11 AM »
@Yucca

Nice work!  8)

Jason

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2008, 01:12:11 AM »
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Offline 4Tesla

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Re: Selfruning Magnet Motor
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2008, 01:39:19 AM »
THIS here shown so simpel.
Pese
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xbF63Gzvtd4

This has been tried before.. I don't think it is OU.. but who knows, maybe his is more efficient?
Edit: No, not OU.. he is using batteries.. if it was OU he would be able to have a closed loop without the batteries.

Jason
« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 02:02:18 AM by 4Tesla »

Offline Yucca

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2008, 01:39:51 AM »
Hi infringer.

Thanks for the kind words. :)

My sketch lacks counterweights opposite the magnets to balance the wheel.

Dave Squires in post#13 stated:
Quote
For the case where permanent magnets are used the force of attraction on the magnets is the same for collapsed and expanded states of the steel elements.  This means that any motion of the magnets resolves to a integrated average force of very close to zero. My bench tests showed that these cogging forces are equal to within 2% or better.

So as the attraction going in is damn near the same as the attraction going out then even without the extra kick the wheel would spin quite a few revolutions. The seperation force between the mild steel plates should then be enough of a kick for a good self runner.

Quote
this power stroke you talk of. Would it not be better to first find the proper timing and have magnets around the entire wheel or both wheels.

you only want the steel plates to exert seperation force when the crank is moving the piston up, then that seperation force will push up on the crank and add to the wheels speed.

I think the device would be easy to time to get a self runner but to optimise the power output would require fiddling with positioning and crank radius.

System equilibrum speed would only be limited by mechanical friction and eddy current losses in the mild steel plates which I think may be able to be minimised by using lots of thin sheets layed on their sides laminated together to make the steel squares.

Quote
How about having a stationary bar magnet on one side and only one wheel say on the right side with the round neos.

That may work but it would not be optimal because some flux would remain in the steel plates when the neo had moved away, ideally you wan´t to change from full flux to no flux. But then it would be a much simpler design to build as you could have the plates hinged at the stationary magnet end and then you wouldn´t need a piston and guide sleeve to keep them parallel, so your idea has some benefits.

Cheers, Yucca.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2008, 01:39:51 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2008, 01:42:10 AM »
After looking at it I realised the sketch I posted above should have more than one pair on neos on it...

It would be better to have a few pairs of attracting neos to give a longer power stroke like this:

Yucca,
I thinkyour designwill not work,
cause you would have to move the magnets away from the
iron piston parts and that needs too much energy.

Better stay with a coil, that you energize to move the iron parts into
repelling mode and turn this way the crank.

You can recycle back the energy put into the coil
via LC resonance, if you use a cap in parallel to the
coil and have the same resonance frequency of the LC tank
as the rotation frequency of the wheel.

So you don´t need magnets with it.

Just a coil, cap and the iron piston parts.

As a parallel LC tank needs very low energy at its resonance
frequency this is the way to go.

If you then apply a load to the mechanical output,
the LC tank will not see the load and will not use
more input power.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline Yucca

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2008, 01:49:04 AM »
So is this a way we can keep say a pendulum swinging possibly?

Similar design right.

Yep similar design, but you would probably need some kind of escapement mechanism for that because every time the mags swing past the plates the plates produce an up force, so with just a rigid crank it would add to the swing in one direction but in the other it would reduce it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2008, 01:49:04 AM »
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Offline Yucca

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2008, 01:59:25 AM »
Yucca,
I thinkyour designwill not work,
cause you would have to move the magnets away from the
iron piston parts and that needs too much energy.

Better stay with a coil, that you energize to move the iron parts into
repelling mode and turn this way the crank.

You can recycle back the energy put into the coil
via LC resonance, if you use a cap in parallel to the
coil and have the same resonance frequency of the LC tank
as the rotation frequency of the wheel.

So you don´t need magnets with it.

Just a coil, cap and the iron piston parts.

As a parallel LC tank needs very low energy at its resonance
frequency this is the way to go.

If you then apply a load to the mechanical output,
the LC tank will not see the load and will not use
more input power.

Regards, Stefan.
Hi Stefan,

Provided the perpendicular seperation force does get around Lenz then I think it would stand as good a chance of working as your proposed electronic method:

It gets the energy required to move away from the steel for free because the flywheel will get a speed up as the magnets are being attracted toward the steel. Dave squires noted that the in and out forces were symetrical plus or minus 2 percent. So provided the plate seperation force is enough to overcome friction it should self run.

Of course as you say a self runner with electromagnets and generator as load would work well too. Once I can make a testbed with bearings I will try both.

edit:
I hope the effect is real and there's not some gremlin that nobodies seen yet!

All the best, Yucca.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 02:23:50 AM by Yucca »

Offline Yucca

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2008, 02:04:35 AM »
@Yucca

Nice work!  8)

Jason

Thanks Jason, it´d be even nicer if I could build it. I went out this morning looking for technical lego, i was thinking of modyfying it to accept proper bearings, but the only stuff in my local toy shop was kids duplo like stuff :D I may have a go making it out of good quality plywood and hand tools but it´ll take a few days.

Yucca.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2008, 02:04:35 AM »
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Offline infringer

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2008, 04:31:19 AM »
I am kind of lost but ...

Here is my idea using yucca's design...

Imagine if you will a clock

Now think of the operation of this desgin.

Now imagine if you will the wheels of this design are simply driven by 1 load of current say a rechargeable battery running a floppy drive motor so the wheels are gears and the shaft of the motor is modified to turn these gears (The two wheels)

Instead of having say 1 magnet on each wheel let us have 12 magnets on each wheel.

Instead of the magnets influencing 1 piston have them influence 12 pistons at each position on the clock we will have a seperate piston.

These pistons each drive there own wheel and if we wished to delve further these wheels could turn yet more pistons the vastness of this is only limited to your imagination. We could expand wheels to the heavens and create a network of power generation all off of this single fanner magnet load in my mind this principal would work.

http://www.energyinfringer.com/fanner-magnetic-engine-free-at-last-free-at-last-t182.html

Errr I dont get the design that stephan talks of using a cap and a coil hrmmm... I'm curious though...

Sounds interesting cap discharges to create electromagnet in coil? Then Coil fires piston for one cycle. The mechanical load then recharges the cap then the cap discharges again? Is this the deal?

Anyone care to eleaborate further on this idea... With the coils and the cap I know a picture may be a lot to ask but helpful.

Offline BEP

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2008, 05:46:16 AM »
Since this is a freedom of ideas forum I'll jump in here and hopefully save some wasted effort of others.

The whole point of this concept seems to be - there are no sticky points  - with something using this concept.

If you have sticky points OR must switch things on and off at precise times then you are likely missing the heart of the concept.
The magnet must not see a change in polarity or total flux density at any point in the cycle.

I haven't figured any value for moving washers or other moving ferrous laminations and doubt there is any. I'm currently thinking more along the lines of the newer wind generator designs where the stator is in a ring formation and the rotor is a toroidal form of a horseshoe magnet (segmented, of course).

If I'm correct a generator of this type will always spin freely with no apparent sticky points even by hand no matter how much load is applied, the output will only be pulsating DC, unlike most other generators - it could never work in the reverse fashion as a motor and it will have some bad heat problems.

The best of luck to any that try to patent the idea or claim to be the originator. Something like this is bound to already be in the book somewhere.


Butch

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2008, 06:10:43 AM »
BEP,
You are correct about no sticky spots. You have a good grasp of the operating principle.
Butch LaFonte

Offline spinner

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2008, 06:30:34 AM »
Oh, there are still sticky points, the wall, cogging, or whatever you want to name the 'conservation payback' which happens in a magneto-mechanical setups...

The 'Force' expanding those washers is the same which makes a centuries old experiment workable - iron fillings on a paper above a magnet. A simple and efficient method for visualisation of magnetic flux "lines"... The denser the flux, the more apparent lines (following a magnetic flux tangents). Or, a relaxation to the lowest possible (overall) potential energy. ..

The question is, could this magnetic effect produce "free work" (using the permanent magnets)?
It reminds me on a SMOT principle, where people only see a "gain" while the ball climbs up-hill ... Or, a fascinating magnetic levitation effect...

The cycling is what makes problems...

 

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