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Author Topic: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !  (Read 208428 times)

Offline shimondoodkin

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  • Posts: 72
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #450 on: February 16, 2009, 09:15:42 PM »
how to do something with that?
its like a method with no practical idea how to build a device.

has anybody tested this idea statically with electrical magnets?

Offline Honk

  • Sr. Member
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  • Posts: 497
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #451 on: February 19, 2009, 01:06:15 PM »
HOWEVER, there are instances of over driven motors where the flux of the coil exceeds the magnet and does cause degaussing

This is only true when it comes to ceramic motor magnets. They are easily demagnetized compared to NdFeb:s.
A motor using NdFeb will not become damaged from any overdriven motor coils as long as the cooling is efficient enough.
Only excesive heat will damage a NdFeb magnet in an electrical motor environment.

Offline Charlie_V

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  • Posts: 362
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #452 on: February 19, 2009, 04:14:54 PM »
Quote
This is only true when it comes to ceramic motor magnets. They are easily demagnetized compared to NdFeb:s.
A motor using NdFeb will not become damaged from any overdriven motor coils as long as the cooling is efficient enough.
Only excesive heat will damage a NdFeb magnet in an electrical motor environment.

That makes sense.  Heat (and maybe extreme continuous vibrations) seem to be their only down fall!

Butch LaFonte

  • Guest
No one noticed this!
« Reply #453 on: February 19, 2009, 08:13:35 PM »
Look at the attached drawing and the "bars added" video on our Youtube site and the rest is elementary.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
http://www.youtube.com/user/LaFonteGroup

Offline Charlie_V

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #454 on: February 20, 2009, 04:26:04 PM »
I'm not sure I see the significance in the video.  If the washers move out of the field, how do you move them back?  Also, how do you push the washers together once you've let them spread out, it looks like pushing them together would be hard. 

Butch LaFonte

  • Guest
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #455 on: February 20, 2009, 08:18:01 PM »
Also, how do you push the washers together once you've let them spread out, it looks like pushing them together would be hard. 
Charlie,
When the elements are flush as in the # 2 illustration, there is no repulsion and they can be moved back together with no work to speak of.
This is just an illustration of the principle, not a practical machine.
Butch

Butch LaFonte

  • Guest
Sequence of operation
« Reply #456 on: February 22, 2009, 07:43:07 PM »
See attached,
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

Offline broli

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #457 on: February 22, 2009, 08:22:38 PM »
Your pictures are a bit misleading. I thought the washers were shrinking but when I wanted to animated it I noticed the magnets where coming in closer. Below is an animated gif. In the future you should consider making an animated picture.  Btw it's a clever idea.

Butch LaFonte

  • Guest
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #458 on: February 23, 2009, 01:26:32 AM »
Your pictures are a bit misleading. I thought the washers were shrinking but when I wanted to animated it I noticed the magnets where coming in closer. Below is an animated gif. In the future you should consider making an animated picture.  Btw it's a clever idea.
Broli,
Thanks so much for the animation! We have a group member who does 3D animations, but I have been giving him a rest. He has done many thousands of dollars worth of animations for us for free when he was also attending college full time.
Thanks again,
Butch

Butch LaFonte

  • Guest
Reply to Broli
« Reply #459 on: February 23, 2009, 01:37:46 AM »
Your pictures are a bit misleading. I thought the washers were shrinking but when I wanted to animated it I noticed the magnets where coming in closer. Below is an animated gif. In the future you should consider making an animated picture.  Btw it's a clever idea.
Broli,
Any way you could put step # 5 in the animation?
Thats where most of the work is done.
Thanks,
Butch

Offline Charlie_V

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  • Posts: 362
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #460 on: February 23, 2009, 03:12:54 PM »
Pulling the magnets away from the washers is not going to be easy.  You'll have to exert a large force to do so.  I would imagine this force is greater than the force that pushes the washers away.

Butch LaFonte

  • Guest
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #461 on: February 23, 2009, 05:43:42 PM »
Pulling the magnets away from the washers is not going to be easy.  You'll have to exert a large force to do so.  I would imagine this force is greater than the force that pushes the washers away.
Charlie,
You forgot about the positive work done by the magnets when they were pulled to the washers in the first step. That positive work will cancel the negative work of having to pull the magnets off. Also look at the test video on Youtube, it shows the work to pull off during the time the washers are grouped together is substantially less than when they are spread apart. The total energy balance in this sequence is substantially positive.     
Note: The washers in this sequence just shown are square.
Thanks,
Butch

Offline petersone

  • Full Member
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  • Posts: 209
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #462 on: February 23, 2009, 06:27:04 PM »
Hi Butch
           The net result looks,on the face of it,to be positive,good luck to you ether way,you are not afraid to put your head on the block,imho it's the way to be,I wish I was,I have 1 or 2 ideas,but I have't the balls to come out with it,like you.
peter

Offline broli

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  • Posts: 2233
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #463 on: February 23, 2009, 06:31:40 PM »
Broli,
Any way you could put step # 5 in the animation?
Thats where most of the work is done.
Thanks,
Butch

Step #5 is the same as step #1 butch  :P.

Pulling the magnets away from the washers is not going to be easy.  You'll have to exert a large force to do so.  I would imagine this force is greater than the force that pushes the washers away.

Just like butch said when you close in they will pull on you so that's energy gain. You'll just have to give that energy back when you spread the magnets back open. On the other hand you can use a clever trick to not feel any push/pull by doing the below thing. Basically you have a set of magnets that always repel each other attached to this main apparatus. I was thinking of ways how to store the energy effectively when the poles come to each other. Springs wouldn't work nicely as their forces are linear with distance. I need something that had a 1/distance relationship. Then it struck that one could just use magnets in repulsion. That way the attraction from the main apparatus will get canceled by the repulsion of magnets attached to it. Same poled electrical charge could also be used if you worry about demagnetization.

Butch LaFonte

  • Guest
Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #464 on: February 23, 2009, 07:06:21 PM »
Hi Butch
           The net result looks,on the face of it,to be positive,good luck to you ether way,you are not afraid to put your head on the block,imho it's the way to be,I wish I was,I have 1 or 2 ideas,but I have't the balls to come out with it,like you.
peter
Peter,
Go ahead and put your ideas out there. Helen Keller once wrote, "There is no safe place in this life."
Regards,
Butch