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Author Topic: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !  (Read 195442 times)

Butch

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Videos, early tests of our rotary version perpendicular magnetics principle
« Reply #255 on: October 27, 2008, 07:34:28 PM »
I found some early videos of Marks tests of a rotary version of the our perpendicular magnetic principle.
Notice all that is needed is a proximity sensor and coil on/off switch to get full 360 degree rotation.
Also, we have a very interesting video coming in the next few days.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
Links >
http://www.fdp.nu/shared/files/ButchLaFonte/Perpendicular%20Magnetics/RotaryPM.mov

http://www.fdp.nu/shared/files/ButchLaFonte/Perpendicular%20Magnetics/RotaryNoSideBars.mov

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7a8rEEAfLM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IpN0oRL-ls

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Butch

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Please read these comments by new LaFonte Group member
« Reply #256 on: October 28, 2008, 02:29:10 AM »
This guy is an electronic genius, we are so lucky to have him in The LaFonte Group.
Thanks, Butch

Hello Mr. Lafonte

Thanks for contacting me again. I am glad to hear you have had success. I have talked to several individuals now have contacted me telling me that they have had recent success in their respective projects. The magnetic effect you guys are taking advantage of has been documented by many of the turn of the century thinkers. Actually Nicola tesla attributed the explosion of thin wires with high amperage currents to this very phenomenon (when the repulsive force of repulsion exceeds that of cohesion the wires blow up). Also it was noted by Walter Russell that magnetism has been wrongly observed noting that it is the repulsive expanding force of the electrical oscillation rather than the cohesive generating force of capacitance. These descriptions fit together nicely, and make sense when one realizes that Tesla and Russell talked. I have to give you kudos though for making use of this in engine form, clever and well done.

While most of my work is in solid state, I am quite versed in various forms of motive power and motor design in general. As you have probably guessed, the ressonance concept could have great implications on your repulsion technology IF the designs are constructed to keep inductance of the powering coil constant (you cannot have varying inductance.





Second comment >




Hello

 

Thank you for the invitation,

 

The effect you are describing is an interesting one indeed. A long forgotten enlightened man Walter Russell observed at the turn of the century noted that science had the magnetic field observed backwards. That in reality it is one half of the electric cycle, representing the disintegration, or dispersing or repulsion. This is a more accurate model when one thinks about what happens inside a natural conductor. For example, when a wire is used to conduct a current, all magnetic domains will be aligned in one direction meaning they will have mutual repulsion. This was observed in the same era by Tesla when he exploded thin wires. The magnetism (repulsive force) became greater than the cohesive force of the material and it flew apart.

 

This confuses many people because we are taught that magnets attract also. But when one things of them as a dipole, or having two opposite poles pushing away from one another (otherwise they would meet in the center of the magnet which they do not) things make more sense. If the poles are trying their best to get away from one another introducing two magnets together will cause them to attract. The result is that the poles are now able to move further apart, and the central plane where they met is now the equator of neutrality and in their meeting they have become one magnet. Thus attraction evolves out of the repulsive force of magnetism.

 

Your use of this in motor form is very clever, I tip my hat to you sir.

 

This is especially useful if you take into consideration the polar opposite of the dispersive force of magnetism, capacity. The two are polar opposites in and of themselves and interchange in rhythm.

 

You could easily incorporate the concept you have been working on with what I have been introducing people to in the area of electrical resonance. There is no marriage between magnetism and electricity, they are one and the same making this an easy task. If you were to construct a design in which the movement of the plates is created by the action of a coil of wire, and you could construct it so that the inductance of that wire NEVER changes during the cycle of the engine, you would be in business indeed.

 

I would be glad to help you in this area. I am more of a solid state guy but have designed many motors taking advantage of similar concepts though lack machining skill to have them made.

 

I am also quite involved in a working model of an atom (what an OU device really should be, a copy cat of natures natural mechanism) and so don't have tons of time to throw into making other things. But, I would be more than willing to join your group and help give direction wherever I can.  There would be an ideal circuit to running your motors, and if you want I can help you guys whip something up.

Offline BEP

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #257 on: October 28, 2008, 12:49:16 PM »
I watched the videos with surprise. Not surprised at the action by the parts but by the wonder of the experimenter.

When all three parts are installed the middle one pivots because it can and all three are the same polarization. Of course the middle one pivots. It is then they all become magnets of the same polarization. So they repel.
When only the middle one is the only one there it has nothing to repel from on the sides so it remains aligned with the field lines it creates between the poles of the electromagnet.

Exploding wires? Anyone with experience in high power conductors will laugh at this idea. They don't explode. They implode. When the surface area becomes too small to radiate the generated waste heat the wire will vaporize if the current is allowed to continue.

For those thinking heat is a slow process you are in the wrong business.

This is also how to shrink coins, pop cans and how most fuses work.

Exploding because currents of like polarity repell? I'm sorry but gimme a break.

Like charges travelling parallel to each other attract. In the extreme they will cause the conductor to compress or implode.

While magnetism and electricity are bound together as one they are 90 degree opposite sides of the same shrinking coin.

I'm not making this statement to rain on the parade. I would like to see it reach the finish line. Shooting off on tangents like previously posted will prevent success.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #257 on: October 28, 2008, 12:49:16 PM »
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Offline Sudonym

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #258 on: October 28, 2008, 05:06:18 PM »
Oh man, I guess someone should step in and settle this.

Like charges DO REPELL, Wires DO explode due to large currents, and coin crushers are NOT the same thing.

Case in point:
"When the spark gap fires, current rapidly climbs in the work coil, and the rate of change may approach five billion amperes/second. As the work coil current increases, it creates a rapidly increasing magnetic field within the work coil. The natural resonant frequency of the LC circuit that's formed by the capacitor bank and the inductance of the work coil ranges between 8 to 12 kilohertz (kHz). Through electromagnetic induction ("transformer action"), a huge circulating current is induced within the coin. However, because of skin effect, most of the induced current is confined to the outermost rim of the coin, typically penetrating to a depth of only 0.050 inches or less. In clad coins, most of the circulating current actually flows within the better conducting copper center of the clad sandwich than in the outer layers. This causes the center of clad coins to shrink a bit more than the outermost layers, leading to an "Oreo Cookie" effect. Because of Lenz's Law, the magnetic fields of the coin and work coil strongly oppose each other, resulting in tremendous repulsion forces between the work coil and the rim of the coin. The circulating current in the rim of the coin prevents most of the magnetic field from the work coil from penetrating the interior of the coin."

Another quote:

"Because this energy is discharged in approximately 20 millionths of a second, the instantaneous power is very large and, for a brief instant, is roughly equivalent to the electrical power consumed by a good sized city. The repulsion forces between the work coil and the coin create tremendous radial compressive forces that easily overcome the yield strength of  the metal alloys in the coin, causing the coin to plastically deform into a smaller diameter. "

Its our old friend Lenz in these cases, and this is a COMPLETELY different phenomenon that what is happening with the wires, which was actually stated correctly before the comment above.

from...Magnetism in dense hexagonal iron
Gerd Steinle-Neumann,*† Lars Stixrude,‡ and Ronald E. Cohen§

in reference to iron in a magnetic field "magnetism tends to expand the lattice and increase the compressibility as compared with the nonmagnetic state."

Some pictures

(http://tesladownunder.com/PulseCapExplodingWire26g3kJDetail.jpg)
(http://tesladownunder.com/PulseCapExplodingWire26g3kJ.jpg)
(http://tesladownunder.com/PulseCapExplodingIronWire3kJ.jpg)

These are NOT pictures of implosions. Pieces are strewn about all over the place after the event.


I mean it is possible that one of the most observant and brilliant electrical engineers of all time accidentally mistook an implosion for an explosion, but it would be a stretch.

I believe it is important that people be concice and correct in what they state. People should not have to take time out of their day to correct bad information of others. If left unchecked however, people tend to believe what they read rather than check it out themselves. I do not want to put others down, but doing the required work, and understanding the forces involved in a logical well thought out way is important to understanding. The repulsion of magnetism within wires is well documented and shown to students in most entry college physics classes. Can crushing is a demonstration of lenz law and repulsion between two seperate inducing entities.

I would like to applaud people for crying foul when they see it. but be damn sure it is what you think it is, or you ruin your own reputation.


Offline Sudonym

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #259 on: October 28, 2008, 06:26:56 PM »
double post sorry

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #259 on: October 28, 2008, 06:26:56 PM »
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Offline Sudonym

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #260 on: October 28, 2008, 10:49:33 PM »
Got bored so i thought I would really drive this one into the ground. Actually I realized why people may get confused after reading BEP's post again. Please see the following video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43AeuDvWc0k

Upon viewing this one might think........well that disproves everything sudonym said! they will implode!

Actually if you remember back to your physics basics you would apply the right hand rule. Thumb would point in the direction of current flow. This would mean that the magnetic "poles" on the wire will be perpendicular to the direction of the current flow. That means that in parallel they will be north to south in the two wires and attract. But within the wire, all domains will be in the same orientation causing repulsion within the wire.

All you need to solve this little dilema is the right hand rule and some common sense.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #261 on: October 28, 2008, 11:08:44 PM »
Wowsers. Nice photos. But unfortunately they do not prove that wires don't implode under high currents, as BEP says. I have done many wire explosion experiments, where I discharged approximately 0.3 uF at 60 kV, through a triggered air gap, into lengths of various wires mounted between recording paper on a platen. (I've exploded a few capacitors doing this too--very exciting indeed!)
This technique leaves a record, often very beautiful, of traces of the products ejected from the wire when it "explodes".
It appears to me that wires do implode, but of course stuff is still ejected violently, just in the opposite direction from what you might think.
Two very interesting things I saw, over and over in these experiments: First, when using enameled copper magnet wire (#44 or #46, very thin, in 6 inch lengths) very often the implosion would completely vaporize and eject the copper, but would leave behind, nearly intact, the empty tube of enamel insulation. Second, I often curved the wire in s-curves, between the paper sheets in the platen. The ejecta always left the wire on the outside of the curvature, and the inflection points, where the curves reversed, were clearly noticed because the ejecta flipped instantly to the other side of the wire.
Only a few times was I able to reproduce the "segmenting" of the wire that others, like the Graneaus, have reported. I think the inductances have to be precisely tuned to achieve segmentation.
I know I'm not describing this very well; I'll try to find some photos of my recordings and post them.
Anyway, in my experience wires implode if the current is high enough; this implosion can look like an explosion from far away, but recordings taken by the platen method seem to indicate implosions.
An explosion mechanism, or tension segmentation, would presumably operate by the Graneau's postulated Ampere tension; while implosion or pinch segmentation would seem to be in line with more conventional predictions of the Biot-Savart force law.
Or did I get that backwards?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #261 on: October 28, 2008, 11:08:44 PM »
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Offline BEP

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #262 on: October 29, 2008, 12:52:01 AM »
Like charges DO REPELL, Wires DO explode due to large currents, and coin crushers are NOT the same thing.

Only when they are not travelling together. Attraction increases with speed, close similarity between the charges and energy.

My statements are based upon experience with the use of bus bars in very high AIC switchgear systems. State what rules you wish. I can never claim to be correct 100% of the time but I'll change nothing in my previous post.

When a 250KAIC DC circuit breaker fails to open under a short circuit and the source of energy has over 200k instantaneous available the .25 x 4 inch 110 grade, silver plated copper bar shrunk so much it elongated the bolt holes upstream of the short circuit. The silver plating flaked off and the 4 inch portion distorted to less than 3 inches with no change in the thickness.
The distance increase between the positive and negative bars destroyed 4.5 inch Glastic isolators and 2 inch thick fiberglass sheeting.

The engineer was fired that same week and I've been designing these systems since - about 30 years.

Physics observations or not this is what happened.

Does anyone think CRTs explode because of the shrapnel they throw everywhere?

Great photos. I recognize them. Try placing two wires side by side with both ends shorted and bang them with a bit of current. Does the distance between them expand or contract? Yes, this isn't the same as a single conductor but any ideas of exactly how current flows through a wire are nothing but theory.

I was the one that had to replace the bus system. That was no theory.

BTW: The direction of elongation was the opposite of what would be expected if the bars simply stretched. Once removed the damaged bars measured the same length as originally installed.

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #263 on: October 29, 2008, 08:52:34 PM »
I think the problem here may be you are trying to compare apples and oranges and assuming they must be the same. I have found you cannot compare a DC discharge to an AC discharge, you cannot compare a generated discharge to either a capacitive discharge or an inductive discharge. You cannot compare a low voltage/high current discharge to a high voltage/low current discharge. Each has specific qualities and properties and imparts these to it's surroundings. In which case all of you may be right in your examples but you are wrong in assuming all energy states must produce the same effects.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #263 on: October 29, 2008, 08:52:34 PM »
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Butch

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This video should get you to thinking, from Butch
« Reply #264 on: October 29, 2008, 09:28:42 PM »
Here is a video of a test Mark did.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
See this link > http://www.youtube.com/user/LaFonteGroup
See top of page, Balance tip 2

Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #265 on: October 29, 2008, 09:30:30 PM »

In addition...who really knows what is possible in the field of energy, with our limited collective understanding of the subject matter...excuse the possible puns.

Regards...


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #265 on: October 29, 2008, 09:30:30 PM »
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Butch

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This video should get you to thinking, second video
« Reply #266 on: October 29, 2008, 09:35:11 PM »

Offline BEP

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #267 on: October 29, 2008, 09:43:13 PM »
I think the problem here may be you are trying to compare apples and oranges

@Allcanadian and Cap-Z-ro

Agreed. There is a definite difference between AC and DC. The rest I'll assume is also correct as I've done fewer experiments within those ranges.

@Butch

Sorry to start the wars. I'm planning experiments that take the opposite approach from your posted direction. I'll be looking at a magnetic flux source seeking an ideal spacing between laminations. In other words: a laminated rotor with variations (ramps) in spacing. I can tell you now that moving the source from the compressed portion of the laminations to the gapped laminations and back to the compressed portion causes no variation in the magnetic flux.

If things work as I suspect only two magnets are required along with some detailed rotor design and zero circuitry. This won't be easy. If it fails it'll be nothing new.

Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #268 on: October 29, 2008, 10:08:31 PM »

Exploration of new ideas is always the best course...that weay no stone is left unturned.

By the way...even the expressed differences of opinion have for me triggered new ways of looking at things.

Respectful disagreement is the way to understanding at times.

I have to say that like no other forum, its always with great anticipation and expectation, that I open a new thread on here, or watching for updates on the various builders latest efforts.

Regards...



Offline empiricalobserver2012

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Re: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !
« Reply #269 on: October 29, 2008, 10:12:42 PM »
Steven Greer's AERO and Orion Project: sincere effort to usher in free energy or eloquent intel. front
 
 
Steven Greer, the chairman of The Disclosure Project, the organization founded in the early ninety nineties to disclose the presence of extraterrestrials and government suppression of evidence regarding the matter has taken on a newer, more daring escapade. This time, disclosing free energy technology to the world by presenting a robust , functional, closed loop, multiple kilowatt free energy device to the world, in tandem with a myriad of free energy inventors and a network of elite celebrities who are determined to see clean abundant alternatives into to the light. All this will be presented at a conference at the
National Press Club, in the same fashion as his famed 01 conference. The idea is to reach hundreds of millions, to make them aware that there are more clean alternatives than wind , geothermal and solar. He has stated that he is working on having a demonstrator unit built  and have it be duplicated and verified by at least three independent sources. So, we assume that there are no robust units available in the public domain and that this is the obstacle to the grand press conference. He founded two organizations in this light- a non profit- Orion Project- to develop technology  and a standard company- AERO(Advanced Energy Research Organization) for marketing. In addition to this, he has asked for the public to donate three million dollars for a research facility. He states repeatedly through radio talk shows and visual presentations that all free energy inventors needs to work with him because that's the only way they can get around the ardent suppression of the last 100 years. The suppression is without doubt but the fact of the matter is that there are numerous free energy machines in the public domain, robust , multiple kilowatt. They are few and far between , but the holders of these units would be more than happy to give Greer a unit if they believed he was sincere. Greer does not have to have it build and some have been on record for multiple decades and their validity is incontrovertible, already verified and either ready for production as is or on the
brink of it. It is doubtful that he is not aware of:
 
 
1. testatika 3kw self running, harnessing electrostatic energy, multiple units, ranging from 300 watts to 30 kilowatts have been running Meternitha ,Switzerland for the last 30 years
 
 
 
2. bedini generator 10kw, runs John Bedini's workshop lights, New Energy Series dvds
 
 
 
3. newman generator - has been on record for 20 years , validated by 40 professionals, Joe Newman  appeared on johnny Carson, and given wide media coverage, has videos on google video showing his machines work
 
 
4. Daniel Dingel water cars, on record since 1968, has multiple cars running on water for everyday driving and farm work, Daniel Dingel is not dead and his cars, which exist today are as functional as anything Stan Meyer came up with.
 
 
Based of of his cozy relationship with people like the Rockefellers( the illuminati) and his lack of action as far the obvious is concerned, it must be looked upon as a likely possibility that whole affair may be nothing but a trojan hose, keeping tracks on inventors  and keeping them from attempting anything on their own.this is not a novel concept, the Noetics Institute of Edgar mitchell is just that. On the other hand , free energy is not intangible such as aliens, and we are at the cusp of a totalitarian police state- the new world order- and free energy would disrupt that
 
i call upon governing members of the free energy movement, such as Sterling d Allan and Tom Beardan to look into this affair because something stinks

 

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