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Author Topic: Magnetic OU principle, You should really take a look at this !  (Read 190202 times)

Butch

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You can take mild steel washers (the kind that does not stay magnetized when magnet is removed) and place them on a vertical wood dowel. Now place a magnet on each side of the washers with the north pole of one facing the south pole of the other. Have a horse shoe shaped flat bar connecting the outer poles of each magnet so that you have a self made horse shoe magnet.
Now move the open air space between the inner poles so that the washers will be between the two faces of the magnets.
Notice that the washers separate from each other. This is because the magnetic path through each washer has the same orientation and they repel each other.
Now notice that the work needed to remove the horse shoe is equal when the washers are together and touching each other or when they are separated. This means that the work available from the separating of the washers is free because the washers separate at a 90 degree angle to the magnetic field or flux flow direction. After testing I posted a series of drawings years ago, but no one bothered to notice this.
Do not allow washers to separate to a point where they go beyond the width of the magnet. They must stay in the space between the pole faces of the two magnets.Remember the wood dowel is at 90 degrees vertical to the horse shoe when the horse shoe is laying flat on a table.
 I have posted to my web page 7 drawings that include a new rotary version using this principle which makes use also of the conservation of angular momentum as part of it's operation. As you know when a mass is rotating in a circle and work is done to make the mass move toward the center axis of rotation the speed of the mass will attempt to increase and the work done on the mass shows up as an increase in the speed and kinetic energy of the rotating mass.
This is done in my design with out having to put additional work into the system.
This should open up a whole new field in overunity permanent magnet and/or electromagnet research and development.
See web page > http://lafonte.fdp.nu
Open folder B00 and look at drawings, Butch10, Butch8, Butch2a, Butch2, Butch11, 1-7-08 A and 1-7-08 D
Also see attached drawing

Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
The LaFonte Group
Birmingham, Alabama
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 10:25:51 PM by hartiberlin »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2008, 07:11:58 PM »
Amazing, Butch,
this is exactly the setup Dave Squires wanted to get a patent on
and I should not tell you all yet about it....


Now you came up with the same setup on your own...
Seems to be the morphogenetic fields spreading the ideas.... ;)


This is the cracked "magnetic code" as Dave Squires has called it.

I invite Dave to come over here to tell the whole story...

I guess he can now forget his patent...

Regards, Stefan.


Butch

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Re: You should really take a look at this, Reply to Stefan
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2008, 11:01:02 PM »
Stefan,
I think you should say to Dave, not me, amazing! Seeing how I posted the designs nine years ago to The Free energy List and JLN Labs. Look at the drawings on my web page and the dates. Also, these drawings were sent all over the world to many people during that time in my collection of work I mailed out from time to time.
Why would you not mention my past work on this when replying about this? The drawings are out there (and on your own site now) and have been for 9 years.
You didn't bother to mention that?
This is the second time some one has asked me to keep qiut about something I designed. This is the thanks I get for open sourcing my work. No wonder more people don't open source, somebody just claims it for there own. I was asked to sign a non disclosure agreement by that guy with the spiral motor and after I did he showned me my design that had been all over the web!!!
I should never have put my work out on the web. Instead of saving the planet, it's just making other people rich that sell the work to the highest bidder and it never gets to market.
Butch laFonte


Amazing, Butch,
this is exactly the setup Dave Squires wanted to get a patent on
and I should not tell you all yet about it....


Now you came up with the same setup on your own...
Seems to be the morphogenetic fields spreading the ideas.... ;)


This is the cracked "magnetic code" as Dave Squires has called it.

I invite Dave to come over here to tell the whole story...

I guess he can now forget his patent...

Regards, Stefan.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: You should really take a look at this, Reply to Stefan
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2008, 11:01:02 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline hartiberlin

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Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2008, 12:26:54 AM »
Hi Butch,
which drawings do you exactly mean ?

Please post the exact link.

Dave Squires?s device is still a bit different in the driving aspect,
but I have promised him, not to speak about it,
until he has got his patent.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2008, 11:01:30 AM »
Hi Stefan,

You can find some of Butch's drawings referred to in B11 folder of site  (http://lafonte.fdp.nu )   see Butch's letter on this here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5068.0;topicseen

Unfortunately, I can find big X in place of these drawings: BUTCH2,  BUTCH10,  BUTCH11.  These drawings are not included....  I wonder why?

And drawings PTFP,  1-7-08 A,  1-7-08 B  are in folder B00...

rgds, Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2008, 11:01:30 AM »
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Offline klicUK

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Re: You should really take a look at this, Reply to Stefan
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2008, 02:01:27 PM »
Stefan,
I think you should say to Dave, not me, amazing! Seeing how I posted the designs nine years ago to The Free energy List and JLN Labs. Look at the drawings on my web page and the dates. Also, these drawings were sent all over the world to many people during that time in my collection of work I mailed out from time to time.
Why would you not mention my past work on this when replying about this? The drawings are out there (and on your own site now) and have been for 9 years.
You didn't bother to mention that?
This is the second time some one has asked me to keep qiut about something I designed. This is the thanks I get for open sourcing my work. No wonder more people don't open source, somebody just claims it for there own. I was asked to sign a non disclosure agreement by that guy with the spiral motor and after I did he showned me my design that had been all over the web!!!
I should never have put my work out on the web. Instead of saving the planet, it's just making other people rich that sell the work to the highest bidder and it never gets to market.
Butch laFonte



Hi Butch,

The problem is that if you don't publish your designs or get around to patenting them and then someone independently thinks of them, they will end up getting all the credit. It could just be that Dave Squires came up with the same/similar concept on his own. I know exactly how you feel though.

regards,

KLiCuk

Offline scraven

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Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2008, 02:14:44 PM »
who cares who did what first? If the rings push out more energy than it takes to lower and raise the magnet then fun times for all. Everything else is just bullSh*t. To be honest this doesn't look any different than any other magnet jigga any of us have seen. Yes magnets store energy but really the only way to release that energy is by heat. Everything else is just transferring kinetic into whatever. Make love, not PMM's.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2008, 02:14:44 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline gyulasun

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Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2008, 04:23:07 PM »
@ scraven

I respect your opinion, though I do not fully agree...

I do think individual ideas should be acknowledged and respected and copyright should be observed.

rgds,  Gyula

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2008, 05:01:53 AM »
Now Butch has uploaded many design variations
of these ideas to:

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=LaFonteGroup


Dave Squires told me, that his idea for it could yield at least a 50:1 overunity motor
this way.

You only need very low power input to switch the coil and you get
the 90 degree movement of the iron parts for almost free.

It won´t change the inductance of the coil and thus only
ohmical losses in the coil must be overcome.

The forces on the moving iron parts are very big though...
So there is a big OverUnity factor involved.

You can also recycle back the energy you put into the coil inductance.

So this is a very nice concept for a huge overunity factor motor.


Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2008, 05:01:53 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2008, 05:12:05 AM »
The trick with this concept is, that magnet fieldlines repell itsself !

If you stuck iron parts into parallel magnet field lines, they repell each other at 90 degrees !

So the movement of the repelling iron parts is 90 degrees to the cause: the magnetic field.

So there is no back drag onto the magnet field this way, as it is 90 degrees and so Lentz
law is violated.

The coil, which produces the magnet field to switch it on and off,
does not see the movement of the iron parts,although they repell each other with
a very huge force.

The magnetic flux path resistance  is not changed much and thus
the inductance and magnetic resistance of the whole
core stays almost constant, so no more energy is needed from the
coil, when the iron parts move.

This design can be designed to make huge reciprocating motors
which have a very high mechanical power output by using only fractions
for the input power.

Regards, Stefan.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 05:47:08 AM by hartiberlin »

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2008, 05:27:22 AM »
Especially these 2 are the valid concepts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaiMQV6W3oA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpmkWw2zkLI

If these moving pieces are iron pieces, this will not alter the magnetic
resistance the coil will see, thus so more energy is needed,
when the iron pieces will push a mechanical load.

It is a drag back electrical motor.
The input power is always constant,no mater
what mechanical load you apply.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2008, 05:27:22 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2008, 05:43:17 AM »
Combine this type of motor with a dragless generator from
Dan Quale:

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=DQuale

www.overunitybuilder.com

and you should get a perfect selfrunner experience.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline wizkycho

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Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2008, 12:55:21 PM »
Hi Butch !

 You just can't stop to amaze us with ammount of simple and more than obvious working ideas ...  :D
I'm jumping up and down right now.
Another well established working principle.
Many Many Thanks

This type of vector movement conversion can Help (it is NOW a must) and make Flynn and Hildebrand types of OU motors ALLWAYS workable.
In their setups (and in every other type of today motors) MOVING PARTs IS getting away from the cause of moving rendering LESS and LESS FORCE for movement.
Now Thanks to Butch We have allmost CONSTANT AMMOUNT OF FORCE on moving parts (are not changing distance from cause of moving) as long as we wan't it to act. making our setups predictable, more calculable...it is easier  now to push them to OU mode with certainty. This is very important in magnetism where distance is everything.

Dave Squires should quit the patent, join us and make it happen.

What to say ?
Butch Let THE FORCE be with YOU.

Wiz




drsquires

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Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2008, 07:43:03 PM »
This is Dave Squires responding to this thread.

Here is the whole truth regarding this principle and Butch LaFonte's claims and actions.

True: Butch posted this idea on the web about 9 years ago give or take a few months.
        But he did nothing with it.  He did not INVENT anything.  Where is the product or patent?
        Butch posted it and it appears then waited for others to do something with it.

This principle has been used in the steel industry for something like 50 years. 
I didn't know this.  I did NOT know that Butch LaFonte had posted this idea on the web
9 years ago.  The idea came to me totally independently of Butch's posting or industry use
for "Fanner Magnets".   The point is that NOBODY saw the true SIGNIFICANCE of this principle.

Butch did not pick this back up until I mentioned all the research and simulations I did
ON MY OWN.  I PROVED with magnetic simulations and bench tests that there is something
of significance to this principle other than using it for separating steel plates in a welding shop.
Then Butch got all excited about it again when I told him of my research and proofs.  If I had
not told him he would still have no clue about it's true significance.

Butch has burned his bridge with me by insulting my father's memory and me by saying that
my late father said I was all about money.   Such an insult was totally uncalled for.  I had
thought Butch was a better man than this.

What I had proposed to apply for a patent on was a practical use of this principle, not
a set of washers on a dowel.

Since the cat is out of the bag for all intents and purposes and Stefan has mentioned a few
key aspects already I can confirm that the key principles are true based on my many simulations
and optimization of the key parameters.  I will NOT give away what the optimum parameters are
for practical usage.  Those of you on this forum can do your own independent research as you like.
It's probably better that way anyhow.

The basic aspects that I can confirm that have been mentioned in this thread already are:

1. For an EM coil properly set up the inductance of a coil will remain constant and see no
   change between collapsed and expanded conditions of steel elements in the magnetic gap.
   This means that the coil cannot see anything happen when those steel elements move and
   perform work.  This is because the volume of steel and gaps are unchanged in the magnetic
   path creating a case of constant magnetic reluctance in the magnetic circuit.  It is a
   nearly perfect case of non-reciprocity.  The motion of the steel pieces is virtually invisible to the coil.

2. For the case where permanent magnets are used the force of attraction on the magnets
   is the same for collapsed and expanded states of the steel elements.  This means that
   any motion of the magnets resolves to a integrated average force of very close to zero.
   My bench tests showed that these cogging forces are equal to within 2% or better.
   The expansion force is at right angles or orthogonal to the applied magnetic field and
    the attractive cogging forces.   It allows isolation of attractive and repulsive forces.

In reality what I have discovered and proven is a law of magnetic fields that says that

"The repelling force of a magnetic field is always orthogonal to the attractive force and both
forces are always present at all times."
   

The concept of "like poles repel" is an over-simplification and not really true because magnetic
poles are an artifact of concentrated magnetic field flow collected in a toroidal arrangement.
Magnetic flux has a flow direction and that's what creates the illusion of magnetic poles.
Magnetic field lines flowing next to each other in the same direction repel each other.
A wire carrying current creates a circular field around it. There are no "poles" in such a field,
but there is a flow direction.  Two wires carrying current in opposite directions in close proximity
will repel due to the same flow direction in the center between them.  Maximum force occurs at
the tangential point of maximum parallelism of the flux lines on the line between the wires.
Higher flux density also plays a role.  The repelling force is a function of flux density and
how parallel the flux lines are.  A coil experiences an axial attractive force and a radial
expansion (repelling) force on it's windings. Permanent magnets have the same forces
internally manifested as stresses on the molecular lattice structure.

I won't discuss other practical uses of this principle or products that I have in development. 
I have a right to develop practical products and patent those practical embodiments just like anyone
else should I so choose.  Any of you on this forum including Butch have the same right. 
So go and get something done.  Do the research work and make something
happen. I don't have all the good ideas.  There are lots of creative people out there.
Let your minds run wild with this concept.  It's amazing that this basic principle of magnetic fields
has been missed for so long.   

One final point:
It is not my intention to argue these points or explain anything further. 
I don't need to prove anything one way or another to anyone else.
Please do your own work and prove it to yourself.

Best regards to all,
Dave Squires
 

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: You should really take a look at this
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2008, 08:06:35 PM »
Hi Dave
Great response, nicely informative. I'm glad you are sharing your experimental work.
I just have to point out, though, that it is a long-used and elementary model of "magnetic field lines" to consider them as spring-like, strongly in tension (attraction) along their (one dimensional) length, and strongly repulsive to each other sideways (that is, orthogonal to the tension, at each differentially small point along the (curving) length. So, while your results support this model or principle, I think it is incorrect to state that it has been "missed for so long." 
Anyway, keep up the good work.
--TK

 

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