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Author Topic: Water for fuel - diesel  (Read 40658 times)

nightlife

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Water for fuel - diesel
« on: June 30, 2008, 07:48:44 AM »
 A member said we should design a HHO set up for diesel and I thought I would start a new thread and dedicate it to designing a HHO on demand set up for diesels and not just small trucks but for semi?s and large diesel tractors as well.

 In this following video we have a 14 cell unit designed for a 7.3 diesel. It is not running off just the HHO but I thought it would make for a good start video to help get us going.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jlv0_m7834

 I have a fleet of diesel wreckers and I will dedicate one for experimenting purposes. I am not sure which one as of right now but I will look them over tomorrow and then decide.

 We may be able to utilize something from the following thread that is being discussed at this time.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.0.html

 I also have other links I will provide as time goes by. I have to locate them and I will post them as I find them again. If anyone else has and or comes across links to info that can help us, please post them so that we can all check them out.

 I do ask that everyone welcome all comments with the up most respect and I ask that no one put another member down for a idea they have to offer. We are all here for the same reason.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 02:03:13 PM by hartiberlin »
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nightlife

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Re: HHO production set ups for diesel engines.
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2008, 08:19:57 AM »
We all know that diesel engine start ups require a glow plug unless ether is used. I am under the understanding that HHO is more explosive then ether and therefore would not require a glow plug for start up. It will take some testing to confirm my assumption and that will be easy enough to do.

 The big problem I see is figuring out how to make the water explode with out using a plasma spark to split and ignite the water molecules.

 I am thinking that the glow plugs will have to be removed and then have spark plugs installed in there places. I maybe able to figure a way to modify the glow plugs to take the place of the spark plugs. That will take some thinking but may be worth the effort.

 I just remembered that I have a 8.2 out of a bus that I can put on a engine stand to experiment with. We need to start with designing spark plugs to use for the plasma spark that is needed.
 I will take out a glow plug and post pictures of it for all to see so that we can all try to figure out a way to modify them for spark plugs.

 If anyone has any suggestions, please post them for all to read.
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resonanceman

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Re: HHO production set ups for diesel engines.
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2008, 08:24:23 AM »
nightlife

I am not  sure that  this  is the  right  place for me to  post  my ideas  about  diesels   

In  short I  don't think HHO  is the way to go .   

I am not interested  in   working on a system  to get a little  better mileage  .........I am  looking for   100% water .

The   speed   and power of a diesel  is   controled by the injectors  .......

With  HHO   you  will have to  start  from  scratch  on  speed control ...........

WHy  reinvent  the wheel? .

In  my opinion    the injectors  should be  used as close to  the way they  are normally   used as possible .

If  the power is  to low  ..........adding   water  mist  to the intake  should   raise  the power some .
If the mist isn't  enough  ........or  doesn't seem  to be   involved  in  the  combustion  process   THEN   it is  time to add  HHO  to  even out the burn pattern 


gary
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resonanceman

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Re: HHO production set ups for diesel engines.
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2008, 08:34:27 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Tinker on Today at 05:18:40 AM

How would you folks like to rock the world,

Lawn mower motors and old Camaro's are wonderful but if you want to change the world think ''Transportation''

I am talking about the big trucks that move our food and just about everything else we use on a daily basis at four dollars a gallon plus here in the states this has shot the price of food to record levels,

Based on what I have been seeing here the concept and electronics are well on the way to being sorted out.

Rudolf had it right, he created an engine that would run on any thing that contained calories, but he missed H20.

Anyone here willing or able to to take on the conversion of a diesel motor.

I would start with a modified glo plug as a ignitior. The only other issue I see is the injector pump timeing.

But that's what I think.

Be Well
Tinker

 





Tinker

I  have been thinking  that a diecel  would be  ideal  ......more compression  for more power ........stronger  construction  for  more    Ooppss  factor

In my opinion   it is the perfect motor for  the people  that want to  use a  transformer  system  rather than a modified  standard ignition system .

The  way I see it ........  a rather large  spark gap  could  be set up inside the cylinder  .........maybe   2 copper rings
a smaller  ring  near  the  injector  ........and a larger  ring  just above the  highest  position of the cylinder .
Both  rings  would be   sized to  be right at the edge of the injector  spray  pattern .

The  voltage  would have to be  arrived at by trial  and error .
It would have to be high enough to  jump  the  gap  when  the injector  was spraying ...........but   low enough to  stop  when  the  injector  stops .   

gary
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nightlife

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Re: HHO production set ups for diesel engines.
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2008, 08:38:51 AM »
Hi gary,
Quote
I am not interested  in   working on a system  to get a little  better mileage  .........I am  looking for   100% water .

 This thread will be focusing on using 100% water as fuel for diesel engines. I will be referring to water as HHO in my comments. If you all prefer, I could just say water but it?s the HHO in the water that makes this all possible. I do however think that the oxygen is what keeps the temperature down and that is a added plus.

Quote
In  my opinion    the injectors  should be  used as close to  the way they  are normally   used as possible .

 I agree and I see no reason at this time why they would need to be altered. The flow may need to be altered depending on the amounts of water that are required.

Quote
If the mist isn't  enough  ........or  doesn't seem  to be   involved  in  the  combustion  process   THEN   it is  time to add  HHO  to  even out the burn pattern
 

 Now that may be an option if needed and we should keep that in mind.

 Thanks for your comments and ideas.
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resonanceman

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Re: HHO production set ups for diesel engines.
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2008, 08:42:45 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Tinker on Today at 05:18:40 AM


I would start with a modified glo plug as a ignitior. The only other issue I see is the injector pump timeing.





I missed  this line  the first time I read it .

I was wondering  how to get the  wires for the  spark gap into the cylinder .   .......the  glow plug hole  is the ideal  way   

We  don't need a glow plug .......we have plasma .     It won't  have full power at first because of rapid condensation .........but it should kick  over .........and if it  has trouble  kicking over when it is cold ............we just   jack   up the  current   

  Smiley

gary
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Tinker

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Re: HHO production set ups for diesel engines.
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2008, 08:51:15 AM »
Gary

Your previous work is to be commended.

I have some contacts that I could use to explore this concept but as most often they will be need to be convinced of profitability as they most often do not subscribe to open sourcing.

Once there is a proff of concept I have no doubt that I can sell this to to the transportation sector as they are hurting and looking for solutions, Atlanta is a hub for freight in the south and are looking for a solution.

To bad I cant help the airlines.

Be
Well
Tinker

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nightlife

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Re: HHO production set ups for diesel engines.
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2008, 08:53:53 AM »
One problem I can foresee is that the injectors need to have the water supply stopped at the time off shut down to keep them from filling up the cylinders with water and the plasma sparks have to continue until the water is all gone from the cylinders.
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resonanceman

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Re: HHO production set ups for diesel engines.
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2008, 08:57:56 AM »
Quote from: nightlife on June 30, 2008, 08:38:51 AM
Hi gary,
 This thread will be focusing on using 100% water as fuel for diesel engines. I will be referring to water as HHO in my comments. If you all prefer, I could just say water but it?s the HHO in the water that makes this all possible. I do however think that the oxygen is what keeps the temperature down and that is a added plus.

 I agree and I see no reason at this time why they would need to be altered. The flow may need to be altered depending on the amounts of water that are required.


Nightlife

I can  deal with how ever  you wish to say it .

I do think it would be nice for   people new to this  forum  to  rename  the  topic  if that is possable .
maybe  " Water as fuel - Diesel "         That  would pretty much  cover all the options   that we might get into . 




  In   your  first post  you  said something about   the  big  diesels  being important .

I think  one  kind  that you didn't mention is very important .    Stationary  diesel  generators 

Wouldn't  it be nice to get off the grid  ?


gary   

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nightlife

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Re: HHO production set ups for diesel engines.
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2008, 09:00:38 AM »
Tinker,
Quote
Once there is a proff of concept I have no doubt that I can sell this to to the transportation sector as they are hurting and looking for solutions, Atlanta is a hub for freight in the south and are looking for a solution.

 The concept of profit would be in the conversion kits and or installation provided we can design what is needed and it works as we hope it to.

 Someone has to install the conversion and those who do would profit from it.
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nightlife

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Re: HHO production set ups for diesel engines.
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2008, 09:06:53 AM »
Gary,
Quote
I do think it would be nice for   people new to this  forum  to  rename  the  topic  if that is possible .
maybe  " Water as fuel - Diesel "         That  would pretty much  cover all the options   that we might get into .


 Good idea. I will see if Stefan can do that because it will no longer allow me to do it.

Quote
I think  one  kind  that you didn't mention is very important .    Stationary  diesel  generators 

Wouldn't  it be nice to get off the grid  ?


 I agree and I believe it should be kept in mind as well as repeatedly mentioned within our comments so the word gets out provided we can make it work.
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Tinker

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Re: HHO production set ups for diesel engines.
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2008, 09:15:19 AM »
The injector pump controls that and it should not be an issue.

That said PROFESSIONAL help would be needed to make the injector pump operated as needed.

Be
Well
Tinker
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resonanceman

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Re: HHO production set ups for diesel engines.
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2008, 09:20:17 AM »
Quote from: nightlife on June 30, 2008, 09:00:38 AM
Tinker,
 The concept of profit would be in the conversion kits and or installation provided we can design what is needed and it works as we hope it to.

 Someone has to install the conversion and those who do would profit from it.


I agree for the most part .........

However .........the timing  has to be right .

If you  try to   jump into  business to soon ..........before the  technology is known  by enough people  you  might  end up  disappeared  .   


gary
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resonanceman

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Re: HHO production set ups for diesel engines.
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2008, 09:25:23 AM »
Quote from: nightlife on June 30, 2008, 09:06:53 AM

 

 provided we can make it work.




Do  you have any doubts?


I don't  have much money  to spend on it at this time .......but I have lots of ideas . 

gary
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nightlife

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Re: HHO production set ups for diesel engines.
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2008, 09:39:23 AM »
Diesel injectors are not electronic, they are controlled by pressure. It takes a certain pressure to open the injector and the pressure controls the amount sprayed. The more pressure applied = the more fuel that is injected. The pressure is controlled by the throttle. They should be easy to modify if even needed at all. It all just depends on what we find out in our experiments.

 I will post pictures of some injector pumps I have tomorrow.
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