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UFO technology and sightings => New propulsion technologies => Topic started by: hartiberlin on June 28, 2008, 09:18:34 PM
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Hi All,
I just watched the movie
Roving Mars
from Imax /NASA.
Great movie and big achievement for humanity to
actually land rovers on the MARS and get us these nice pictures.
Well, as I am a big SciFi fan and have read many books
about space travel in my childhood, I really wish
we could go to MARS and other planet much faster.
I just calculated, how fast we have about to fly to MARS,
if we want to go there in ONE DAY !
As MARS is sometimes only 100.000.000 ( 100 Million) Km away,
we would have to go as fast as about 1/10th of lightspeed to get there in 24 hours.
That is about the speed of going from earth to moon in about 10 seconds.
Here is a picture, which shows the lightspeed, which is
about 1.2 seconds from earth to our moon:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Speed_of_light_from_Earth_to_Moon.gif/460px-Speed_of_light_from_Earth_to_Moon.gif)
So we have to go 10 times slower, so that means about 10 seconds from earth to the moon.
So how can we achieve this ?
Does anybody have already an idea for a gravity drive that can manipulate gravity to
get us to this speed ?
We really need to get away from this old and outdated rocket technology...
That is just outdated stuff and does not make sense for real space travel anymore...
If we want to leave our sun system and want to explore other stars and planet and
our Milkyway, we really need gravity control drives.
So how can we do this ?
I really would like to see man on Mars
when I am still alive and the "going to the Moon fake" from 1969 and 70s should not repeat again...
So how can we get past the Van Allan belts without being grilled from the intense radiations
and then to the Moon in 10 seconds
or to Mars in 24 hours ?
By the way, watch the movie:
A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Moon
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=funny+thing+moon&sitesearch=#
and /or
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7335269088210976286&q=funny+thing+moon&ei=yo1mSLzwG4-ciALG7tGvBg
Please post your ideas for a gravity drive, that is fast enough.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
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How outdated that rocket technology is you see here....
Great music to it...
Up up up....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5505066479986092651
Blow it up... ;)
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So how can we get past the Van Allan belts without being grilled from the intense radiations
I believe that if we can generate our own gravitation field, the artificial field will protect us against the radiations like the earth do.
But how to make our own saucer that another story, first we need a free energy device as power then we can think of a way create
our own gravity :)
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While an anti-gravity device would certainly be useful for many things, it really would not help us get to Mars much faster. Most of the way, gravity is not much of a factor.
As far as next generation propulsion engines, you guys may want to Google the following experimental technologies:
Fusion
Nuclear
Ion
With regard to Van Allen belts, it is currently expensive to shield against this radiation, so idea is to pass through as quickly as possible. As propulsion technology advances, it may be more feasible to have thicker, heavier, hulls with special shielding.
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Have a look at this great video,
then you can see, how big the VISIBLE
universe is.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5199883515356655043
So how do we get beyond the 15 billions light years from Venize ?
;D
Amazing jouney, from quarks at a park in Venize to 15 billions light years away..
You really should see this in HDTV, as I just have watched it..
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While an anti-gravity device would certainly be useful for many things, it really would not help us get to Mars much faster. Most of the way, gravity is not much of a factor.
As far as next generation propulsion engines, you guys may want to Google the following experimental technologies:
Fusion
Nuclear
Ion
Well, I meant also more some kind of space bending time changing-wormhole jump technology
or something simular...
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While an anti-gravity device would certainly be useful for many things, it really would not help us get to Mars much faster. Most of the way, gravity is not much of a factor.
As far as next generation propulsion engines, you guys may want to Google the following experimental technologies:
Fusion
Nuclear
Ion
With regard to Van Allen belts, it is currently expensive to shield against this radiation, so idea is to pass through as quickly as possible. As propulsion technology advances, it may be more feasible to have thicker, heavier, hulls with special shielding.
I think you are wrong, since you are using gravity to move, you go much faster then the light speed, its completely another way or traveling, its no longer the old rocket shit that NASA use to hide the real vehicle they are using on other secret organization. NASA is just a front to tell to everyone only the rocket can be used and the other technologies dont work which is not true.
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i still think using mere speed is the brute force way of traveling. Even if it's approaching light speed! The stars we see in the sky are from a couple hundred to some 100.000 light years far away. So even if you would travel at light speed. Your grand grand grand....children that where born on the space ship will reach them :p.
So what is needed is instant teleportation. Going up in a higher dimension and folding the 3d space on itself in that dimension and then just making a small step to arrive at your destination. This is atleast the 2d to 3d analogy. Yes we are light years behind (pun intended) propulsion wise to consider something as teleportation. But why waiste your time on something you know the limit of. Ofcourse I do believe in surpressed technology so for all I know everything we see is a joke and an insult of what is really already possible.
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I think you are wrong, since you are using gravity to move, you go much faster then the light speed, its completely another way or traveling, its no longer the old rocket shit that NASA use to hide the real vehicle they are using on other secret organization. NASA is just a front to tell to everyone only the rocket can be used and the other technologies dont work which is not true.
How would you use gravity to travel? Even if you could make your own gravitational field, how does it help you. The earth has quite a large gravitational pull, but this does not help the earth move through space any faster.
If you are talking about utilizing the gravitational pull of another object, OK, but how does that help you travel faster than light? When I jump off the bed, I am using gravity to move, but I am not going much faster than the speed of light. If I were to jump off an airplane, even if there was no wind resistance, I still would not reach light speed, no matter how far I fell.
So what are you talking about? Or is this just something you read in a sci fi novel?
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If you can create your own gravitational field you are in your own gravity bubble, you can control the way of interaction with all other gravitational field including the earth or any other planet or galaxies, I cannot tell how its work because my spaceship is damaged so I cannot using it and see what append :)
Well its what I think you can do from all the things I read and see so far. That not coming from sci fi movies.
Anyway its quite hard to tell me I am wrong since you cannot prove it anyway :)
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Yes Stefan, I too was excited about what the Mars rover showed. Once they solidly confirm evidence of water on that planet it is time for us to start going there and doing some terra-forming. Mars needs to be converted for human habitation, and with our population growing it is the best direction to reach for. A faster way to get there would really help out.
Steven Hawking once mentioned that we need to be a two-planet race of beings. I couldn't agree with him more strongly. A whole planet waiting for us to subdue it. What an exciting concept.
Isn't there an easier way to warp space?
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Folding space is a concept that has been around for a long time.
The idea of having a sheet of paper and traveling from 1 opposing corner to the other is the longest path of travel.
Concepts have been conceived (but not explored or proven) that if instead of drawing a straight line and traveling that line from corner to corner, that instead you curl the paper to bring the corners together and make the starting point almost (if not exactly) the same place as the destination.
Any travel of any type has 3 principle factors.
Speed.
Distance.
Time.
The 1st two are completely dependent on the 3rd.
Speed (in Einsteinian terms) has a direct relation to time.
I don't think we need to investigate the propulsion or gravitational means as much as we need (for our short longevity) to manipulate time (wormhole, timewarp, etc.).
This does NOT mean that gravity doesn't have something to do with time! ;)
Gravity and magnetics share the same types of effects. Effecting matter at a distance as long as the matter is within the field of influence.
Magnetics have a small range of things that they can influence immediately, but gravity effects everything (we know of) always.
Just as I propose that electricity and magnetics cannot be completely divorced (in fact, I can't think of a way that electricity being used does NOT also create magnetic field), I theorize that energy, magnetics, and gravity may be different states of the same thing.
Since temperature is the gradient that we use to manipulate the state of a element (solid, liquid, plasma, gas) perhaps there is a different gradient we have not yet discovered that changes energy state (null, potential, realized, constant, etc.)
Wood is an matter that gives no heat or light until it changes state from matter to energy through chemical reaction.
What is necessary for the change of state in gravity (time)?
We answer that question, and the stars are ours.
:D
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Isn't there an easier way to warp space?
Are you finding our current techniques for warping space to be too crude? :)
I will add one thing - excomm made a great point about speed and time. If we can make a spacecraft that approaches the speed of light, then time will pass very quickly for the people on board. This does not help people back at home, but at least it may be feasible to send people to far destinations and have them arrive within a reasonable time, at least relative for them.
This does create interesting problems down the road. Even if we could successfully colonize another star system, there would be virtually no communication back and forth. Who wants to wait 100 years for a response? Though I suppose the colonists could continually send a broadcast to appraise of their progress, and we could send them news from Earth.
A funny thing would of course be if during the voyage, we did come up with a way to bend space. The colonists would arrive to their destination with us already there.
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Lazar has explained it in his video a while back. He was the guy who talked about element 115 when it wasn't official. I think the craft work just as he states in the video, by creating a distortion, in the direction they wish to go, continuously falling into a localized area of gravity. I think he saying that 115 was used to access the gravity wave, and channel and direct earths gravity, while on earth. I don't think anyone in the mainstream has actually created a gravity wave, that would be a pretty interesting experiment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdoXhimf9oc&feature=related
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Why building a complicate device to travel. What about astral traveling, I'm practice this for years with some good results but far far away from traveling outer space.
I recommend the books of Robert A. Monroe to get a good overview.
That's hopefully the way the people will go, once the avarice and inequity is gone some day... (whould love to live in the startrek time)
Ahhh almost forgot, for those who are scifi fans, take a look at the "Takeshi Kovacs" book series, written by Richard Morgan, available in english and german and also as audiobooks. It's the best series I ever read.
cheers,
atlantex
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Nullifying the effect of gravity would go a long way towards getting off Earth. Cancelling the effect of inertia would also help since a small push from a rocket would result in a larger effect.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
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Nullifying the effect of gravity would go a long way towards getting off Earth.
<snip>
In that regard (since sci-fi is mentioned in the 1st post) why don't we use "beanstalks" to nullify the earths immediate gravitational effect?
A beanstalk is, very simplistically, an elevator to a satellite in geosynchronous orbit with an area on the earth,
I don't know which sci-fi author thgought of and wrote about the concept 1st, but it's in a host of novels since.
Heinlein and Niven seem to stick in my mind.
As for gravity and time, we do know how they immediately effect us, but it's a far place from actual total understanding of the effects.
An excellent topic though.
We need space travel since there are just too many of us for the planet to support.
:(
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In that regard (since sci-fi is mentioned in the 1st post) why don't we use "beanstalks" to nullify the earths immediate gravitational effect?
A beanstalk is, very simplistically, an elevator to a satellite in geosynchronous orbit with an area on the earth,
Actually, the idea of a space elevator has been explored. The current problem is that there is not a material strong enough to make the elevator from. Interestingly, scientists have figured out that we actually could put a space elevator on Mars, because gravity is lower there.
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In that regard (since sci-fi is mentioned in the 1st post) why don't we use "beanstalks" to nullify the earths immediate gravitational effect?
A beanstalk is, very simplistically, an elevator to a satellite in geosynchronous orbit with an area on the earth,
I don't know which sci-fi author thgought of and wrote about the concept 1st, but it's in a host of novels since.
Heinlein and Niven seem to stick in my mind.
Clarke with Fountains of Paradise, a good read. A russian, don't recall who, reportedly first came up with it though.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
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Actually, the idea of a space elevator has been explored. The current problem is that there is not a material strong enough to make the elevator from. Interestingly, scientists have figured out that we actually could put a space elevator on Mars, because gravity is lower there.
I looked it up and found a story that said they are hoping to use carbon nanotubes for tensile strength and weight concerns. It's being explored by NASA's 5-50yr. R&D dept.
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In that regard (since sci-fi is mentioned in the 1st post) why don't we use "beanstalks" to nullify the earths immediate gravitational effect?
A beanstalk is, very simplistically, an elevator to a satellite in geosynchronous orbit with an area on the earth,...
Here on Earth, the elevator would have to be over 22,000 miles long, starting somewhere on the equator.
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Here on Earth, the elevator would have to be over 22,000 miles long, starting somewhere on the equator.
It wouldn't just be here on earth for the concept to work. ;)
I suppose that the logical way to do it would be to build and lower from space. But that would mean a LOT of supply voyages while building, but start in lowest orbit and attach, then maneuver out from there.
The material for the tether/shaft is the key.
Now this space/time folding thingy for space travel.......
Whew! Not quite as easily conceptualized.
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There is a group working on actual hardware for the space elevator concept... though their website has the lift date to orbit as Oct 27, 2031. So far, as far as I can find, they've climbed 1500 feet.
http://www.liftport.com
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QjcaQT_ssE4
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
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In the Wave Structure of Matter (WSM) model, gravity is due to increased density of space (the fabric, that is, like ether) due to all those waves from all the particles of Earth. So you'd need to block those waves from interacting with your heavy spacecraft, basically a shield below your spacecraft. The Earthward side would intercept those waves such that on the spaceward side, space would be less dense. This less dense space would mean the sparecraft, located on the spaceward side of the shield, would have less weight so the rockets don't have to do nearly as much work.
Hmmm... putting another shield on the spaceward side of the spacescraft would block waves from that direction, reducing inertia. Very small rockets needed, provided the shield is lightweight. The rockets would be outside the shields.
Now, just gotta figure out how to build the shields...
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
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I think that we should use Lakhovsky coils to power our starships with.Lakhovsky coils I think could be used to supply electricity since they are powered by cosmic rays.Cosmic rays are everywhere we look in space.The coils also are powered by radio waves and magnetic fields.So someone needs to develope these coils are a power source.Triffid
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I think there is more energy to be gotten from all the people
talking about crap like Lakovski coils and Leedskalin tests,
than there is in those "devices" themselves.
And I think it would be great to actually have a "warp" drive,
but to do so we must either create a very strong gravity field
ourselves which would probably royally mess up the mechanics of
our solar system, or we would have to wrap our ship in a
negative energy bubble, which so far is impossible.
Don't see many other ways of doing it without "transdimensional
shifting" into a "subspace" or "hyperspace" domain... ;)
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I think there is more energy to be gotten from all the people
talking about crap like Lakovski coils and Leedskalin tests,
than there is in those "devices" themselves.
And I think it would be great to actually have a "warp" drive,
but to do so we must either create a very strong gravity field
ourselves which would probably royally mess up the mechanics of
our solar system, or we would have to wrap our ship in a
negative energy bubble, which so far is impossible.
Don't see many other ways of doing it without "transdimensional
shifting" into a "subspace" or "hyperspace" domain... ;)
Well the good news right now is that we do not really need faster than light travel to explore or colonize our own solar system, which is the next logical step for mankind. Something faster than rockets would be great, and I think it's coming within this century. But really, even the two months it takes to get to Mars is tolerable. We just have to figure out a way to lower the costs of getting out of Earth's gravity. Space elevator should help here, if we can get that going. A similar space elevator on Mars, and then it's cake!
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Well,
why don?t they start the spaceshuttle without rockets first, but fly like a normal
plane so high, until the air is too thin, that they will not get higher ...
Then they finally could switch to rocket propulsion and lift the space shuttle the rest of the
few Kms into the space.
Would probably consume much lower fuel cost.
At least save the first stages of the rockets on the space shuttle...
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Well,
why don?t they start the spaceshuttle without rockets first, but fly like a normal
plane so high, until the air is too thin, that they will not get higher ...
Then they finally could switch to rocket propulsion and lift the space shuttle the rest of the
few Kms into the space.
Would probably consume much lower fuel cost.
At least save the first stages of the rockets on the space shuttle...
Hi Stephan.
For the space shuttle to get into the atmosphere, it would have to use it's rear rocket nozzles for propulsion, even if it were flying like a plane instead of shooting like a rocket. Jet/rocket propulsion is all it's got.
It would still need a few big tanks to supply the rockets with hydrogen and oxygen for burn.
I do know that the shuttle HAS been piggy-backed (attached to the back of) to a 747 for testing and I always wondered why they just didn't launch that way, or using a Sikorsky crane helicopter to get it into atmosphere.
All those big tanks you see attached to it on the rocket launch pad are fuel JUST TO GET IT OUT OF EARTHS GRAVITY!
I bet the big one could be done away with for a atmosphere launch
That's a lot of liquid hydrogen and oxygen.
Atmospheric launches just make sense vs. ground launches.
Good point.
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Well,
why don?t they start the spaceshuttle without rockets first, but fly like a normal
plane so high, until the air is too thin, that they will not get higher ...
Then they finally could switch to rocket propulsion and lift the space shuttle the rest of the
few Kms into the space.
Would probably consume much lower fuel cost.
At least save the first stages of the rockets on the space shuttle...
Ah, now you are getting into rocket science! I am no rocket scientist, but from what I remember, a combo jet/rocket booster module was actually on the drawing board. I think it got scrapped because of the complexity and added weight of having to have two separate sets of engines and separate fuel sections. Also, from what I understand, the added weight of oxygen (in liquid or solid form) does not add that much weight to the rocket, so having an all rocket booster module works out fairly well.
So, in a nutshell, rocket propulsion is still needed, and a pure rocket system worked out to be simpler and, I believe, more economical than a combo system.
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Now I bet this has been suggested before,
but would it not be possible to "simply" use
antennae and panels to absorb energy in the form of
cosmic and solar radiation to charge batteries,
and use that to power electrokinetic thrusters?
That would reduce the weight as a lot less rocket
fuel would be needed...
And we could surely build an electromagnetic railgun
on the moon to launch craft with?
Surely we do not necessarily have to launch every
bit of thrust in the form of a huge fuel tank before
we can consider shooting off to Mars?
Only getting back would require either fuel brought along,
or another railgun on the Mars end...
But it seems to me that would at least save half the fuel...
The biggest problem is probably how to break when you
get there, which might be solvable (thinking of using slingshot
effect and cutting of magnetic field lines there to both produce
decelleration and provide power for the batteries once again),
and the "chunky salsa" effect of high speed accelleration in the railgun.
;)
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Howdy Y'all,
I just can't believe no one has mentioned the SEG here. When a Searle disk is spun at a low speed it generates electricity. When you spin it at higher speeds it becomes a anti-gravitational device. If we build a high performance SEG we could generate an anti-gravitational field around a significant ship. The SEG also is generating electricity when it is running in antigrav mode so you could use the electrical power to charge some Bifield Brown Nacelles to provide the thrust via high voltage elastic cohesion with the air, like a lifter. John Searle may be one of the few true geniuses left in the world.
Now lets get more sophisticated. Lets take a look at alien technology. They use an inertia canceling devices that creates an independent gravity system for the ship. This includes navigational gravity and shipboard gravity. The system is two large counter rotating disks which have a large amount of weight around the periphery of the disks. The two disks are in close proximity on the same axis and spun at a great velocity. This is like a double gyroscope with each wheel spinning in the opposite direction. An electromechanical control system allows the spacial proximity between the two disks to be altered by the pilot of the ship. By mechanically altering the symmetry between the two disks the "down" side of the gravitational field is changed, and the ship "falls" toward the "down" side. Keep in mind that the "down" side can be in any direction of the X, Y, and Z axises. This enables the ship to "fall" up. Within the ship the gravitational forces are rectified to maintain an environment that is free of the tremendous gravitational forces used to navigate.
I have investigated this concept to the limits of earthbound knowledge. There are far more sophisticated systems I am sure. I have read about ships that can traverse the planes of existence. A ship that normally exists on the etheric plane, and can come into the physical plane at will. Theoretically there are ships that travel at the speed of intangible light, which moves far more rapidly (maybe a thousand times) than visible light. Then there is the teleportation phenomena. Supposedly the whole human DNA includes the code for powers that we only dream of. Unfortunately, our DNA is damaged and we cannot access our "higher" powers until we have evolved to a point where we can repair our own DNA. These powers include telepathy, telekinesis, teleportation, egoic knowledge, and freedom from death. When man masters DNA we will be able to teleport ourselves to another planet at will, no ship required. Of course we will probably come up with a Stargate before then.
So the next time you see an alien who had to make a pit stop on our puny, little, backward planet to take a wizz, go jump in his ship and take off with it. Then come over to my place, and we will reverse engineer the technology. I am sure that will only take a couple of hours, then we can return the ship to the alien, and he can get on his way. Hopefully he won't raygun us, and we will have the secrets of interstellar travel. Then we will build a cool antigravity ship and go cruising the galaxy for space chix...
Blessed Be Brothers...
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Right.
Well, unconventional huge gyroscope setups are nice ideas but will need
large amounts of energy and you need to bring that somehow...
The only versions I know of that have been tested used earth-based
launch platform where an earth-based motor spun it to a high enough
speed, then it could lift off and fly and as the rotation slowed down it
would come down again. But it took a huge lot of power and it needed
the launch pad to fly...
The Searl disc is interesting but as far as I know nobody has been able
to replicate it on anything but a smaller scale, and even then it did not fly.
There are several interesting technologies that normal humans have
invented that are usefull for propulsion, we really don't need aliens for that. ;)
Of course standard electrokinetics and electrogravity (Biefeld Brown effect etc)
come to mind, as well as the Jeff Cook coil...
The main problem of manned spaceflight at very high speeds is, in my opinion,
a twofold one: On the one side we will need quite a lot of energy to accellerate
and decellerate the craft, which leads to its own problems of either using internal
propulsion and needs a fuel tank or fuel collection, or external propultion (launch
system) that also still needs fuel, and that needs to be on both ends of the trajectory
in order to get both there and back. On the other side we need to keep the people
inside the craft in one piece during accellerations that would normally reduce a
person to ketchup.
So, what we need seems to be a significant decrease of inertia of the craft and
its occupants, so that it does not take as much energy to achieve accelleration,
and the people inside don't experience the high accellerations.
The TR31-B "flying triangle" comes to mind, it was claimed (by people who
came forward in the disclosure project I believe but am not certain) that
contained a large circular mercury plasma accellerator, the effect of which was
that everything inside that circle decreased in effective inertia quite a lot,
and this lowered the effective weight of the craft so much that it could
easily lift iself and its crew, mercury ring, fuel tanks, machinery, everything,
with just three relatively small jet engines and could achieve phenomenal speeds.
The Belgian airforce chased one of those for a while back in the '80s, and
have the radar footage to show it. Thousands of citizens witnessed the
triangle being chased by 2 F16 jets and simply shoot off to the horizon
as if the F16 were standing still. :)
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Now lets get more sophisticated. Lets take a look at alien technology. They use an inertia canceling devices that creates an independent gravity system for the ship. This includes navigational gravity and shipboard gravity. The system is two large counter rotating disks which have a large amount of weight around the periphery of the disks. The two disks are in close proximity on the same axis and spun at a great velocity. This is like a double gyroscope with each wheel spinning in the opposite direction. An electromechanical control system allows the spacial proximity between the two disks to be altered by the pilot of the ship. By mechanically altering the symmetry between the two disks the "down" side of the gravitational field is changed, and the ship "falls" toward the "down" side. Keep in mind that the "down" side can be in any direction of the X, Y, and Z axises. This enables the ship to "fall" up. Within the ship the gravitational forces are rectified to maintain an environment that is free of the tremendous gravitational forces used to navigate.
No, that's not true. Everybody knows that the Zorkons use interdimensional travel. Inertia canceling/artificial gravity is so obsolete now.
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Well, unconventional huge gyroscope setups are nice ideas but will need
large amounts of energy and you need to bring that somehow...
The only versions I know of that have been tested used earth-based
launch platform where an earth-based motor spun it to a high enough
speed, then it could lift off and fly and as the rotation slowed down it
would come down again. But it took a huge lot of power and it needed
the launch pad to fly...
This sounds interesting. Do you have any links?
The Searl disc is interesting but as far as I know nobody has been able
to replicate it on anything but a smaller scale, and even then it did not fly.
It was replicated back in 2000 by Roshin and Godin.
http://ether.sciences.free.fr/acrobatfiles/Searl-Roshin-Godin.pdf
The first few paragraphs don't work for me (probably in a language that
I don't have fonts for) but the rest is okay.
While we're at it, there's also David Hamel's device consisting of metal
cones and magnets. There have been claims of replication but no proof
given.
And then there's Podkletnov's gravity shielding, rotating superconductor.
Hmmm... the list goes on.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
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Howdy Y'all,
That TR3-B is using the mercury inside tubes that spin the mass of the mercury around the periphery of the ship. There are two circular tubes, donuts, that pump the mercury in opposite directions. This is their inertia canceling device which works in the exact same way as the two oppositely spinning flywheels. The mercury inertia canceling device doesn't have the axle and spokes to hold the wheels to the ship. So, as a result, there is more space inside the ship that has a mercury drive, than the ship that has the mechanical drive. Both these systems accomplish the same thing, canceling inertia.
In ancient India, or the Raman Empire, their Vimianas used the mercury inertia canceling device. So we are basically trying to replicate something that existed 20,000 years ago, of which all written knowledge has been lost. The only way we will get any information about the Vimiana is to read the Akashic Record. So is anyone out there astral clairvoyant? We could really use someone like that right now...
Blessed Be Brothers...
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Lakhovsky coils may offend some people but they are in the literature as being effective and no matter where we go in the universe it pays to be able to live off the land.So I am serious about looking at these coils as a power source.A constant 1-g acceleration space drive would get us to most places .Cosmic rays are said to be everywhere in space.Never mind the low power of these coils,their power would last forever(or at least as long as the universe does).Triffid
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This sounds interesting. Do you have any links?
Not off the top of my head, but I'll look them up for you.
If I recall correctly, it was patented as an "entertainment machine" for fear of suppression
if patent application was done under "gyroscopic flying saucer".
I'll search for some solid info over the weekend. :)
It was replicated back in 2000 by Roshin and Godin.
http://ether.sciences.free.fr/acrobatfiles/Searl-Roshin-Godin.pdf
The first few paragraphs don't work for me (probably in a language that
I don't have fonts for) but the rest is okay.
Hmm well yes, there are one or two claims of the basic Searl disc setup
having been replicated in models, but I was actually talking full scale
large Searl disc vehicle that can carry at least one person. The claims
of it self-powering are also vague, some claim it did and does, some claim it
can but doesn't always, and some claim it never did...
While we're at it, there's also David Hamel's device consisting of metal
cones and magnets. There have been claims of replication but no proof
given.
Hehe I happen to have been involved in that, on the fringes of
the Hamel group, but still I got quite some good info from those guys. :)
Some claim they actually got a couple of the Hamel devices to self-run,
but as far as I know nobody has managed to get one to shoot off into
the sky besides old man Hamel himself. ;)
And then there's Podkletnov's gravity shielding, rotating superconductor.
Hmmm... the list goes on.
:) Yes, and the Jeff Cook coil, etc. ;)
But still interesting eh? :)
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At the very least we could use chemical rockets to orbit,then use solar power to heat up gases and or liquids.I have heard of one company working with rockets that run on steam.Triffid
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Howdy Stefan,
The answer to your propulsion problem is Vril Levitators. Developed in Germany. Look at this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvUjNNS8hU8&mode=related&search=
Blessed Be Brothers...
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Stefan, I am sorry if I am in the wrong thread, I am not sure where to put this.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=71329
OK, what could be the exciting news besides water there. Bacteria, maybe?
Assuming they find bacteria on Mars (and it's not just from us smelling our own armpits because of transfer from all the probes sent there) how would that influence human habitation?
Would exploring Mars mean that humans could only make a one way trip? Think about it. Would we want to risk transferring alien bacteria back to earth? So would that mean humans that go there would have to go with the mindset that they cannot go back to good old earth. Just like explorers of old that left everything for a new life in a new country (United States for example) with no intention of returning.
Could we be sure our decontamination procedures would fully destroy any alien bacteria if an astronaut wanted to return?
This is interesting and very important to consider. Thoughts anyone?
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http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=71329
OK, what could be the exciting news besides water there. Bacteria, maybe?
Assuming they find bacteria on Mars (and it's not just from us smelling our own armpits because of transfer from all the probes sent there) how would that influence human habitation?
Would exploring Mars mean that humans could only make a one way trip? Think about it. Would we want to risk transferring alien bacteria back to earth? So would that mean humans that go there would have to go with the mindset that they cannot go back to good old earth. Just like explorers of old that left everything for a new life in a new country (United States for example) with no intention of returning.
Could we be sure our decontamination procedures would fully destroy any alien bacteria if an astronaut wanted to return?
This is interesting and very important to consider. Thoughts anyone?
There are quite a few different types of anti-bacterial methods that could be used, but all depend on a lot of investigation into the bacteria (if they exist).
UV irradiation is one, but depending on the atmosphere shielding of Mars, a bacteria could have a pretty good dose of natural resistance to that.
Then there's steam autoclaving, but that assumes that (and the above) persons are wearing suits.
If what we're told is true in regards to Mars atmosphere, it would take significant conditioning (natural or medical) to be able to breath the atmosphere without at least aid of some type and to withstand atmospheric temperatures as they do not reside in usual norm.
That points to suits. ;)
Sort of like the necessity of your hazmat suit in the iconage. ;D
We have many different protocols and procedures already devised for hazardous chemical, biological, and pressure differential (deep sea exploring) so I don't see why they can't be adapted to space exploration.
A "way station" for decontamination could be set up on the moon (since we're assuming we can travel to Mars, moon travel should be relatively inconsequential) for observation and quarantine should it prove necessary.
I think there will be quite a bit of suit exploration before non-suit traveling on Mars can be contemplated and so it should be fairly easy (assuming again that "waste" water and air can be recycled since that would be necessary for any worthwhile exploration of Mars) to set up a few positive pressure biospheres to introduce the bacteria and observe the interaction with earth flora/fauna without jeopardizing the earth.
Hopefully............................. ;)
We'll never know until we get there.
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Howdy Y'all,
Found this on the Velvet Rope Forums...
http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0208/aldebaran-mystery.html
The Aldebaran Mystery: The Nazi/ET UFO Connection
Dr. Hermann Oberth who pioneered rocket design for the German Reich during World War II and later advanced rocket technology for the American manned space launches, cryptically stated: "We cannot take the credit for our record advancement in certain scientific fields alone; we have been helped."
When asked by whom, he replied: "The people of other worlds."
Oberth's fellow associate space pioneer, who also served the Third Reich, Wernher Von Braun, echoed similar knowledge of the extra-terrestrial reality when he stated in 1959, "We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than hitherto assumed, and whose base is at present unknown to us. More I cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering into closer contact with those powers, and within six or nine months time it may be possible to speak with more precision on the matter. "
[From "Above Top Secret" by Timothy Good, William Morrow and Company, Inc. 1988.]
Just who were "the people of other worlds" that Dr. Oberth spoke of so blithely?
And were both of these esteemed German scientists making oblique reference to one of UFOlogy's most pervasive and tantalizing 'myths'- the alleged link between the Third Reich of pre-World War II Germany and? EXTRATERRESTRIALS?
Following military defeat of the First World War, certain occult secret societies emerged in Germany intent upon discovering clues to the existence of ancient lost civilizations that once flourished on this planet; civilizations that reportedly possessed remarkable, almost magical technologies that allowed them mastery of the seas and the skies and even inter-stellar space travel.
Inspiration to rediscover such technologies were to be found in a novel published in 1871 by Rosicrucian author Edward Bulwer-Lytton, entitled, "THE COMING RACE".
Lytton tells the tale of an intrepid explorer who discovers an advanced race of humans living within a vast subterranean world who call themselves "Vril-ya". These beings had formerly been surface dwellers until a global catastrophe not unlike the Old Testament flood, forced them to take refuge deep in the Earth.
The survival of this marvelous society was facilitated by their application of a force they referred to as "Vril". As Bulwer-Lytton wrote in "the Coming Race":
"?An explanation of which I understood very little, for there is no word in any language I know which is an exact synonym for 'vril.' I should call it electricity, except that it comprehends in its manifold branches other forces of nature, to which in our scientific nomenclature, differing names are assigned, such as magnetism, galvanism, etc. These people consider that in 'vril' they have arrived at the unity in natural energetic agencies, which has been conjectured by many philosophers above ground?"
It was supposed by some that Lytton's book was not altogether a work of fiction, and in fact, he was privy to secrets that lost Lemurian and Atlantean artifacts still existed in clandestine caches hidden in the Gobi Desert and Tibet. And during the lull between the First and Second World War, rediscovering these forgotten technologies became the primary focus of two secret German societies, both the 'Thule' and the 'Vril'. Mastery of an occult force such as 'Vril' would not only assure German technical dominance-it would ultimately liberate Germany from any crippling co-dependence upon the international petroleum cartels dominated by Germany's conquerors-the United States and Britain.
Initiates of both the Thule and Vril societies were determined to develop an 'alternative science' and 'alternative technologies' based on principles possessed by the great 'lost' civilization of Atlantis; a "spiritual "dynamo-technology" superior to the mechanistic notions of modern science". Thus to rediscover this source of universal free energy and make it readily available as a benefit to the modern world became their goal.
Thule member, Dr. W. O. Schumann of the Technical University in Munich, declared "In everything we recognize two principles that determine the events; light and darkness, good and evil, creation and destruction-as in electricity we know plus and minus. It is always; either-or?
Everything destructive is of Satanic origin, everything creative is divine? Every technology based on explosion or combustion has thus to be called Satanic. The coming new age will be an age of new, positive, divine technology?"
Hence, the goal to harness 'Vril', Prana, the fundamental, limitless, cosmic life-force energy-a power source that would function harmoniously with our natural world-became an integral focus of these German secret societies.
The medium Maria Orsic was leader of the 'Vrilerinnen', the beautiful young ladies of the Vril Gesellschaft. Characteristically they all wore their hair in long horsetails, contrary to the popular short bobbed fashion of their day, claiming their long hair acted as cosmic antennas that helped facilitate their contact with extraterrestrials beings from beyond.
According to the legend of the German Vril society, a fateful meeting was held in 1919 at an old hunting lodge near Berchtesgaden, where Maria Orsic presented to a small group assembled from the Thule, Vril and Black Sun Societies, telepathic messages she claimed to have received from an extraterrestrial civilization existing in the distant Aldebaran solar system, sixty-eight light years away, in the Constellation of Taurus. One set of Maria's channeled transmissions was found to be in a secret German Templar script unknown to her.
second series of transmissions appeared to be written in an ancient eastern language, which Babylonian scholars associated with the Thule group, recognized as ancient Sumerian. Maria Orsic along with Sigrun, another of the Vril Society's female mediums, began the task of translating these transmissions and discovered they contained instructions for building a circular flight machine.
However, it should be important to consider the possible motivation behind the Aldebaran civilization's offer to assist the Vril Group and Germany. Researcher Wendelle Stevens tells us that, rather than a militant gesture of aid to aggressive Nazis, the Aldebarans perceived an economic disparity in Earth cultures that fueled perpetual wars and conflict. To alleviate this disparity the Aldebarans reasoned that by offering 'free-energy' technologies, used to create affordable mass transportation devices, a new innovative generation of industries, promoting prosperity and greater peaceful interaction between nations might result; thus diminishing violent wars.
Clearly such a plan resonated with members of both the Thule and Vril Societies and their dream for a New World based on 'alternative science'.
Upon studying these otherworldly, esoteric designs, Dr. W. O. Schumman and his associates from the University of Munich realized the channeling actually contained viable physics, and over the ensuing years construction was initiated to make this flying machine a reality. By 1922 development of a working prototype was underway.
Meanwhile, Germany saw the inception of the National Socialist Party and Adolph Hitler's rise to power, fueled in part by the utopian visions of a new world order inspired by the Thule and Vril Societies. By 1934, the first manned test flight of the RFZ-1 took place. However, the results were less than auspicious. Flown by intrepid World War I ace, Lothar Waiz, the craft wobbled to altitude of 60 meters and upon landing, the pilot, managed to escape from the craft just in time before it spun out of control, ripping to pieces like a drunken top.
Before the end of that year a much-improved version, the five meter RFZ-2, was test flown successfully and eventually flying disc development was taken over by Division SS E-IV of the Nazi military. The fundamental physics were as simple as a child's spinning gyroscope-circular discs spun in counter-rotation create an anti-gravity effect; an effect as timeless as that described by the Old Testament prophet Ezekiel and his 'fiery chariot'-"a wheel within a wheel. " Had he been witness to a flying machine from Aldebaran?
Contrary to his professed aim to create a world of cosmic harmony, Hitler sent his Panzer tanks and infantry into Poland in 1939, thus precipitating the altogether destructive Second World War. And despite the fact that he also outlawed all secret societies in Germany, the Thule and Vril Gesellschafts maintained their autonomy, and development of Vril levitating saucer craft continued, despite funding competition from conventional Luftwaffe war-production imperatives.
Aero-Technical Unit V-7 designed a number of hybrid saucers that combined both exotic anti-gravity and conventional turbojet propulsion systems, creating vertical lift craft that were essentially precursors to modern helicopters.
However, the distinctly separate SS E-IV Unit, bore the sole responsibility of developing Hitler's dream of free-energy propulsion. By 1941, the successful Vril-2 levitation craft was employed for transatlantic reconnaissance flights. The RFZ-2 craft employed the "Schumman-Levitator" drive for vertical lift and when activated, the craft displayed effects commonly described in many UFO accounts; blurring of visible contours, and luminous ionization colors relative to the craft's engine acceleration; varying from orange to green, blue to white. As well, the craft made radical 90 degree turns characteristic of UFO flight.
Tragically, the Reich diverted the peaceful intent of the Aldebarans's levitation technology. Following the success of the RFZ-2, a single pilot combat model was designed. The advanced Vril-1 Fighter was capable of 12000 km/h with full speed right angle turns with no adverse G-effects on the pilot. Since the craft flew in a self-contained envelope of its own gravitational field, the pilot experienced no sense of motion or inertia.
Subsequent levitation-craft advances between 1941 and 1944 spawned the "Haunebu" series, the 'heavy hitters' of Reich's saucer fleet. Development of powerful tachyon magneto-gravitic drives-"Thule-Tachyonators" (speculated to be large spheres of vertically rotating mercury)-allowed design of 75 foot diameter armored saucer ships equipped with armaments such as Panzer-tank cannon turrets mounted to the underside. Other craft were equipped with klystron laser cannons.
By Christmas of 1943, medium Maria Orsic of the Vril Gesellschaft, claimed that subsequent transmissions from Aldebaran revealed there were two
habitable planets orbiting that star and that the ancient Mesopotamian civilization of Sumeria was linked to earlier colonies of Aldebaran explorers. The seers discovered that the Aldebaran written language was identical to that of the Sumerians and was phonetically similar to that of spoken German.
It was also revealed that a 'dimension channel' or 'worm-hole' existed connecting our two solar systems. Thus in January of 1944, possibly aware that Germany's war efforts were faltering, Hitler and Himmler authorized an audacious plan to send a Vril-7 saucer ship into the dimensional channel, perhaps to secure assistance from the Aldebaran civilization. The venture resulted in near disaster, the Vril-7 returned with its hull reportedly aged as if it had been flying for a hundred years and its surface damaged in several places.
Meanwhile, the Allies sampled an unpleasant taste of the deadly weapons potential of German saucers. In 1944, a massive bombing raid was launched against the critical ball-bearing plant at Schweinfurt. Within a matter of hours a squadron of ten to fifteen Nazi discs managed to shoot down as many as one hundred and fifty British and American bombers-one quarter of the entire bomber contingent. Still, facing overwhelming odds, the crumbling Reich lacked sufficient saucer squadrons to turn the tide.
With the military fate of the Reich in doubt, an ambitious, energetic General rose within the SS inner circle elite to a level of power that rivaled perhaps that of even the Fuhrer himself. Hans Kammler, a prot?g?' of Heinrich Himmler, had earned a reputation with his skills for rapid development and implementation of underground manufacturing facilities, and vast mobilization of slave labor consignments from concentration camps.
By 1945 Kammler had secured control over all top secret SS projects that were missile or 'aircraft' related. Certainly, Vril projects would have been one of his foremost priorities.
Cunning and shrewd, Kammler easily bore the qualifications to mastermind construction of 'special projects' facilities at the South Pole. And as of April 17, 1945, Kammler disappeared from Germany, presumably escaping capture aboard a lumbering, six-engine Junkers 390 cargo plane bound for an unknown destination.
Neither was military assistance forthcoming from Aldebaran, but perhaps safe haven was offered instead, as a massive 250-foot diameter Haunebu III dreadnaught armed with four, triple-gun, heavy caliber naval turrets and capable of space flight was allegedly completed by April of 1945.
With the specter Russian, British and American armies all relentlessly advancing on the German heartland, supplies, scientists, and saucer components were being steadily evacuated from Europe by U-boats to secret enclaves in Germany's Antarctic colony-Neuschwabenland.
Just one month prior to the Haunebu III's completion a cryptic message was sent by Maria Orsic to all members of the Vril Society, simply stating:
"None are staying here."
The psychic medium Maria was never heard from again, perhaps having escaped -like Kammler- to South America, the Antarctic, or possibly even? Aldebaran!
The question remains, was she Kammler's collaborator or captive?
By inevitably seizing the rocket facilities and personnel at Peenemunde, the advancing Allied Army leadership was only too well aware of how dangerously advanced German technology had become. Despite the Third Reich's unconditional surrender in 1945, a potential Nazi threat still haunted Allied intelligence.
Had the German High Command sacrificed its European operation to buy time for installation of a 'fall-back' position in the Antarctic, capable of launching future retaliations from its South Polar redoubt? Post-script to this legend is the account of "Operation High-Jump".
In January of 1947, an American military task force, "Operation High-Jump," complete with thirteen ships including, an aircraft carrier, seaplanes, helicopters and 4000 combat troops was dispatched to the Antarctic under the command of Admiral Richard E. Byrd for the stated purpose of 'mapping' the coastline. This task force was provisioned for an eight-month polar stay, but after eight weeks and an undisclosed loss of planes and personnel, Byrd withdrew his forces.
Rumor was Byrd encountered overwhelming hostile action, he described as, "fighters that are able to fly from one pole to another with incredible speed. " He also intimated that he had in fact engaged a German contingent being assisted as well by an 'advanced civilization' with formidable technologies? Whatever occurred with Byrd's expedition at the South Pole remains shrouded in mystery since all reports, including Byrd's personal log entries, remain classified.
Also, it should be noted that Operation High-Jump was originally organized by Secretary of the Navy, James Forrestal. But later, in 1949, then Secretary of Defense Forrestal was sequestered and sent to convalesce for a nervous breakdown at Bethesda Naval Hospital.
However, after allegedly ranting to hospital staff about the Antarctic, UFOs and an underground Nazi city, Forrestal was denied all visitors and shortly thereafter, died in a fall from his hospital room window. His death was labeled a 'suicide'.
But again, considering the question posed at the outset of this essay, could the 'advanced civilization' suggested by Byrd be the same extraterrestrials alluded to by both Von Braun and Oberth? Could these "people of other worlds" be Germany's mysterious allies from Aldebaran?
Such is the legend of 'Vril' and the Third Reich's levitating disc projects. Of course, had all discussion of 'flying saucers' ended in 1945 it would be perfectly simple to dismiss the whole myth as preposterous nonsense. However, as we well know, persistent reports of UFOs and circular flying craft have remained a ubiquitous enigma worldwide for all the decades since World War II. And as long as this mystery goes unanswered the riddle of Nazi saucers will remain an urgent paradox that spins a kaleidoscope of demanding questions.
Viewed from the aspect of classical physics, the whole myth is easily dismissed as fanciful rubbish; the fairy tale notions of occult channeling with space brothers from Aldebaran, and Nazis armed with flying saucers and ray-guns sounds like the most outrageous science fiction!
However, this same legend reconsidered from the radically altered view of Quantum physics takes on dramatic plausibility!
Was the Vril Society simply making practical application of the 'Unified Field"?
Is Vril or "the unity in natural energetic agencies" that Edward Bulwer-Lytton described, far from pulp fiction, but a remarkably accurate description of Zero-Point Energy that pervades the entire universe?
Did ancient lost civilizations of Earth share understanding with extraterrestrial civilizations among the stars that the universe is in fact a single consciousness and simultaneously an ocean of limitless energy? Could it be that a handful of daring German visionaries discovered secrets of harnessing this energy?
And ultimately, who were the REAL victors in World War II?
Did a contingent of German physicists and engineers and military personnel successfully drop off the grid in 1945 and establish a new colony, totally self-sufficient and independent of the global petroleum cartels? And are the fundamentals of free-energy production fully known and deliberately withheld, at the cost of destroying our environment, merely to serve the greed of multi-national corporate and banking interests to this day? And is this 'free-energy' propulsion the ultimate secret behind the UFO cover-up?
Of course, in the years immediately following World War II, the German saucer mystery compounded even more. In June of 1947 a private pilot named Kenneth Arnold reported a formation of nine shiny objects speeding along at an unprecedented speed of 1600 mph in the vicinity of Mt. Rainier, Washington. In Arnold's words, the craft flew "like a saucer would if you skipped it across the water."
Hence the press seized upon his words and launched the public fascination with "Flying Saucers". However, Arnold actually described the craft as more crescent shaped, like 'flying wings'-which coincidentally was another air form perfected by the German Horton Brothers, during the war. It was suspected that captured German aircraft were being studied in a joint U. S. /British facility in western Canada close to Washington state.
Four months later, in September of 1947, just eight months after Admiral Byrd's aborted mission to the Antarctic, the Strategic Air Command undertook a detailed mapping and reconnaissance mission of the North Pole. An extensive B-29 support base was established at Ft. Richardson, Alaska.
But aside from cameras, these bombers were crammed with state-of-the-art, electro-magnetic scanners, sensors and magnetic emissions detectors. And, just as Byrd described, 'high-speed craft capable of flying from pole to pole', were again encountered at the Arctic as well. Debriefed flight crews reported seeing metallic vertical lift saucers parked on the ice packs, flying in and out of the water as well as dogging the B-29s.
All evidence, tapes, film canisters and documentation were immediately classified and rushed back to Washington D. C.
According to the captured records, the Germans also had plans to build a 'Zeppelin'-sized levitating cylinder ship called the "Andromeda" machine. This 330-foot behemoth was capable of carrying as many as three of the smaller Vril and Haunebu scout ships. In the early 1950's a California man named George Adamski photographed a UFO remarkably similar to this design.
Later, Adamski claimed to have contact with a 'Nordic' looking extraterrestrial near Desert Center, California, who claimed to be from the planet Venus.
However, it should be noted that photographs of the little scout craft this alien flew show a design virtually identical to the German Haunebu II. Though Adamski was later debunked as a fraud, reports of UFOs identical to the 'Venusian scout ship' continued to surface worldwide.
n 1954, President Dwight Eisenhower was allegedly secreted away to a meeting with Extraterrestrials at MUROC airfield near Palm Springs, California. One particular group was reported to be 'Nordic' looking and they offered Eisenhower Free-Energy technology in exchange for nuclear disarmament-Ike declined! And as the story goes, these 'Nordic' ETs subsequently met with Pope Pius XII at the Vatican as well.
And of course it remains common knowledge that during the war Germany had cordial relations with Argentina and other Latin American countries, and by a curious coincidence even today UFOs are commonly reported the full length an breadth of South America, along with tales of hidden German bases in the ice peaks of Peru and the vast jungles of Brazil.
But perhaps the most blatant inference of a German connection with UFOs comes from the famed Billy Meier case in Switzerland.
In 1975, thirty years after the disappearance of the Vril Society leaders, a Swiss farmer claimed to have contact with a girl from the 'Pleiades', who bore the pseudonym, "Semjase" and a striking resemblance to the 'Vrilerinnen' from 1919.
This space girl also wore long blonde hair, spoke in fluent Austrian-German and candidly shared comprehensive knowledge about the German saucer projects of World War II.
Were Semjase's 'beamships' actually contemporary versions of the old Haunebus?
And yet, the riddle remains that, were the surviving modern remnants of the Third Reich to actually possess such vastly superior technology, why then would they not simply flex their muscle and conquer the world in one final swift stroke?
Or did they realize such a victory might ultimately be a futile gesture?
Suppose the Reich survivors learned from their Aldebaran mentors the secret the ancient Sumerians possessed-that, in a regular 3600 year cycle, the surface of planet Earth is devastated by the passing of a dwarf-star which is companion to our solar system. And that this Dark Star was calculated once again to swing through the inner planets during the early years of the 21st Century. Such a monumental event would grant the "Thousand Year Reich" a meager seventy years or so life span. Thus might the Reich survivors not wisely choose to disappear from the surface world and develop hardened underground 'shelters' in the remote wastes of Antarctica, patiently preparing to safely ride out the Dark Star's passing?
Do we dare suppose that a contemporary generation of subterranean Reichskinder secretly continue to advance their limitless scientific wonders, content to allow the ignorant, expendable 'surface dwellers' to choke in the poisoned atmosphere of their internal-combustion, junk-technology, automobiles, airplanes and industries?
Could it be that all the incredible levitating machines and free-energy technologies envisioned by the Thule and Vril Societies are being carefully held in reserve for the promised 'New Age'; a future time when Earth has recovered from the agonies of its Dark Star's encounter?
We may discover the answers to these questions sooner than we realize!
Meanwhile, the quest to solve the mysteries of Nazi saucers and the secrets from Aldebaran, certainly has gained more relevance to our present world here in the first decade of the 21st Century. It seems an irony that, much like pre-World War II Germany, we find Western Civilization dangerously dependent upon foreign petroleum sources dominated by hostile Muslim nations. Is there a free-energy/anti-gravity answer to this dilemma?
[Author's Disclaimer: The preceding text is virtually all 'legend'.
There is little or no hard evidence to fully verify the authenticity of such a tale. I've cobbled this together from the writings of Jan Van Helsing, Vladimir Terziski, Nick Cook, Wendelle Stevens and a website called 'Grey Falcon', as well as the video, "UFO Secrets of the Third Reich."
The bottom line has two options; either the whole story is pure fantasy, or Nazi secrets of anti-gravity were gobbled up at the end of the war by Allied Intelligence and given a security classification "Above-Top-Secret" with all evidence meticulously hidden or destroyed. However, it should be noted that anti-gravity propulsion systems, such as the Vril legend suggest, would make all aerospace and avionic technologies obsolete overnight-and these are huge multi-billion dollar industries directly tied to the international petroleum cartels. Surely these combined military/industrial interests would possess the means and the motive to obliterate any conclusive history of German anti-gravity research.
For a comprehensive 'one-stop-shop' overview of the entire Nazi UFO mystery I recommend a visit to: Disc Aircraft
http://www.discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/index.html
Blessed Be Brothers...
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Hey z.monkey
As much as I appreciate the historical lesson on the third reich and saucers, I was wondering if you had any insight into how the saucers work as that would be of penultimate importance to this topic (in fact, if continually spinning "supports" for a beanstalk could be used, we could have such a structure within a few years instead of 50 years. Or even negate their necessity)?
As much as we need new methods of energy production, we also need to start looking beyond this rock for living space as if we keep multiplying like rabbits within this small space of the earth, it will end up the same way that allowing rats to breed uncontrolled within a finite space turns them into cannibalistic, waring factions that are doomed to live amongst the carnage and filth they generate until the "living space" is degraded to the point it will not sustain life (as we know it).
Got any good reading as to how to replicate this saucer effect?
Just curious bud....... ;)
Blessed be brother.....
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Howdy exxcomm0n,
I believe I have sighted several examples. I'll reiterate.
Antigrav Technologies:
1. Mechanical configuration like the early Vril, two counter rotating flywheels spinning in opposite directions generate an independent gravity field. This is a Vril Levitator.
2. Advanced mechanical configuration incorporated more gyroscopes for additional control. This is the Schumann Levitator.
3. Circulating mercury configuration eliminated many mechanical components. It pumps mercury through tubes at a high velocity to achieve the same effect as items 1 and 2. This is called the Thule Tachyonator.
4. The infamous SEG, Sir John Searle has been preaching this for a long, long time.
Propulsion Technologies:
1. Still can use rockets, ha ha, effective not practical. Combined with the Antigrav system even a rocket can make the ship go a lot faster.
2. Bifield Brown Thrusters, like on the toy lifters. A serious Biefild Brown Thruster can theoretically propel a ship up to the speed of light. These are also called Ion "Rockets" by the orthodoxy.
3. My favorite propulsion technique is to use the Antigrav system as the propulsive force. This requires a more complex system to have the Levitator act as a propulsion unit also, but I think it is the most elegant solution.
Powering the ship:
1. The SEG produces an abundance of electrical power. Good for running the ships systems and propelling the ship with Biefield Brown Thrusters.
2. I haven't got to play with the German technologies but I suspect they generate a Free Energy Effect just like the SEG.
Once we have these advanced technologies I believe that the world will seem a lot bigger. We will be able to inhabit places that were not assessable before. People can commute a lot farther in a Levitator ship, so we won't feel so cramped and overcrowded. Plus some of us can go live on Venus, Mars, or elsewhere.
Just say NO to cannibalism.
Blessed Be Brothers...
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<snip>
Propulsion Technologies:
1. Still can use rockets, ha ha, effective not practical. Combined with the Antigrav system even a rocket can make the ship go a lot faster.
2. Bifield Brown Thrusters, like on the toy lifters. A serious Biefild Brown Thruster can theoretically propel a ship up to the speed of light. These are also called Ion "Rockets" by the orthodoxy.
3. My favorite propulsion technique is to use the Antigrav system as the propulsive force. This requires a more complex system to have the Levitator act as a propulsion unit also, but I think it is the most elegant solution.
Powering the ship:
1. The SEG produces an abundance of electrical power. Good for running the ships systems and propelling the ship with Biefield Brown Thrusters.
2. I haven't got to play with the German technologies but I suspect they generate a Free Energy Effect just like the SEG.
Once we have these advanced technologies I believe that the world will seem a lot bigger. We will be able to inhabit places that were not assessable before. People can commute a lot farther in a Levitator ship, so we won't feel so cramped and overcrowded. Plus some of us can go live on Venus, Mars, or elsewhere.
Just say NO to cannibalism.
Blessed Be Brothers...
I'll go ya one better with an idea I am pirating from a Julian May Sci-Fi book.
If the saucer has it's gravity field that allows it to defy the downward pull of gravity, how 'bout adjusting the linear effect of gravity as well so you turn it on to create negation of that gravity as well (although....2 gravities in differing directions could be quite challenging) and the earth spins under you at rotational speed until you reach your destination and you turn that negation off to stay synchronous with that destination.
Only really good for terrestrial travel, but somethings better than nothing.
But you're right, the controlling of gravity would be an awesome tool.
If you could focus it, your propulsion issue is solved as all you'd have to do is aim towards something of a significantly larger (or multiple) mass(es) than your self (saucer) and turn it on.
I'm still puzzled as there already has to be 2 gravitational units in action anyway (unless ship interior is continual free fall as a side effect of inertialessness.
I'll give it another gander Mr.
Blessed be brother....
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About Lazar,
Very interesting of course, but why he explanes some principles differently - in some videos he talking about three gravity generators ... another videos about one generator and three gravity amplifiers. When 1...6 video (where he looks younger) then seems he is reading text from running screen ...
After looked total 2...3 hours - very turbid thoughts about.
What he is doing today ?
What is your opinion about Lazar?
regards,
khabe
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Howdy Khabe,
Bob Lazar is a US.Gov disinformation plant. The Germans invented this stuff, anything the Americans have is a bad (evil) copy of German technologies. Element 115 is hocus pocus designed to divert your attention from the truth. From what I understand America did replicate this technology back in the 50's. We have had a continuous prescience in space since then, and I am not talking about rockets. Supposedly we have had secret bases on the Moon and on Mars since the 50's. NASA is a farce, a VERY expensive farce. That money is channeled into secret projects.
Blessed Be Brothers...
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Howdy Khabe, Bob Lazar is a US.Gov disinformation plant. The Germans invented this stuff, anything the Americans have is a bad (evil) copy of German technologies. Element 115 is hocus pocus designed to divert your attention from the truth. From what I understand America did replicate this technology back in the 50's. We have had a continuous prescience in space since then, and I am not talking about rockets. Supposedly we have had secret bases on the Moon and on Mars since the 50's. NASA is a farce, a VERY expensive farce. That money is channeled into secret projects.
Blessed Be Brothers...
All is possible,
Even unnatural codswallop,
cheers,
khabe
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My primitive thoughts about LightSpeed:
Earth is rushing through space around the Sun at a rate of about 67,000 miles per hour,
= 107826.05 km/h = 29.95 km/sec
Somewhere in equator because Earth rotates this speed (line-velocity) does vary +/- 0.5 km/sec.
(sorry - forget how to call "line velocity" ;-)
When -
someone, named as Observer, locates out of Sun System (but on the same level), standing unmoving for Sun, measures the
speed of light of Laser beam, based on the Earth, somewhere on the equator, and Lase is continually targeted to Observer
(as much as possible),
Then -
what result Observer will get?
The speed of light = 299 792 458 m / s as agreed upon,
It varies +/- 29.95 km/sec inside year and +/- 0.5 km/sec every 24 hours ???
Is the speed of light as absolute maximum (= 299 792 458 m/s) the ultimate truth ???
Regards,
khabe
"Observer" does see it like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_BVzGOEwBQ
(here is no Laser at this time ;-)
PS:
If Observer locates more afield then much higher act-upon factors like rotating of of Milky Way, rotating of Sun system and another
comparative/relative velocity between each and all, all is in moving ... etg ...
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Howdy Khabe,
We can measure the speed of visible light on Earth. But this is not the maximum speed of light. Ultraviolet light travels faster than visible light. Higher frequency equals higher velocity. Beyond ultraviolet light there is what I call intangible light which can attain the maximum speed that photons can travel which is far greater than visible light. We do not have the capability to measure the velocity of intangible light because we do not have the equipment necessary to perceive intangible light. So the maximum speed of light is much higher than what is commonly thought of as "The Speed of Light"
There are ships out there that can travel many times faster than intangible light. The information received from the secret chamber underneath Giza say that the "Warp" factors are exponentiations of the Speed of Light. With a ship like that we could get to Mars in a matter of minutes...
Warp 1 is the Speed of Light. Warp 2 is the SOL2. Warp 3 is the SOL3. Et Cetera.
Blessed Be Brothers...
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OK, understood. As well as I do understand that mentioned by me +/- speed will be detected by Observer as "doppler effect" - offset via spectrum (fault! - when declared/claimed about found or not found water (for example) ;-)
But anyway - Is the speed of any light as absolute maximum - - - is it the ultimate truth of unexpired claims of science today ... or something could move faster ???
Regards,
khabe
Ohh, I see, you told YES :o
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@hartiberlin
While browsing the interwebs, I stumbled upon this obscure news article:
------------------------------------------
"Travel to Mars in 3 hours (Air force studies Trek tech)
The Scotsman ^ | January 5 2006 | Ian Johnston
Posted on 1/5/2006 8:42:46 AM by jbwbubba
AN EXTRAORDINARY "hyperspace" engine that could make interstellar space travel a reality by flying into other dimensions is being investigated by the United States government.
The hypothetical device, which has been outlined in principle but is based on a controversial theory about the fabric of the universe, could potentially allow a spacecraft to travel to Mars in three hours and journey to a star 11 light years away in just 80 days, according to a report in today's New Scientist magazine.
The theoretical engine works by creating an intense magnetic field that, according to ideas first developed by the late scientist Burkhard Heim in the 1950s, would produce a gravitational field and result in thrust for a spacecraft.
Also, if a large enough magnetic field was created, the craft would slip into a different dimension, where the speed of light is faster, allowing incredible speeds to be reached. Switching off the magnetic field would result in the engine reappearing in our current dimension.
The US air force has expressed an interest in the idea and scientists working for the American Department of Energy - which has a device known as the Z Machine that could generate the kind of magnetic fields required to drive the engine - say they may carry out a test if the theory withstands further scrutiny."
-----------------------------------------
I don't know if it was meant to be funny or what, but it mentions a "Z Machine" used for propulsion. I did a quick Google search for "Z Machine" and found this:
http://zpinch.sandia.gov/
The main picture kinda reminds me of the engines from the ships in the Matrix movies.
Just thought you would like to know that there ARE in fact plans to build such a craft to do the very thing you had suggested. I wouldn't be suprised if they don't already have such a craft already working.
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Howdy wile_coyote7,
Stefan has already commented on what he thinks of the Z-Machine, check this out...
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4210.0.html
Blessed Be Brothers...
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@z.monkey
Oops! I guess I missed that one. Thanks!
BTW......I'm trying to find what book Robert Heinlein suggested a constant thrust engine to get to Mars. I remember he suggested that you would need an engine with a constant thrust X percent of 1 G (Earth's gravity) to travel half the distance, then flip around and apply the same amount of thrust to slow down. Because there is no resistance in space other than from gravity (or if you hit something), if you accelerate at a constant rate, once you are half way thru your trip, you will have gotten to an extremely fast speed.
I'm still looking for the book. I thought it interesting. I'll post it once I find it.
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I don't see why you should have to dig that up from a Heinlein SF novel...
Why don't you just calculate it?
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Howdy Wile_Coyote7,
I think that Robert Heinlien book is called "Farmer in the Sky". They went to Ganymede, one of Jupiters moons, not Mars. I read that one like 25 years ago. Too bad they didn't know that Jupiter was going to turn into a star. Oh well...
Blessed Be Brothers and Sisters...
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Possible warp drive within the boundries of Phyiscs. That will get you to Mars and back very quickly.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/08/15/sciwarpdrive115.xml
Energy required is a bit of a problem LOL! All you would need is to convert the ENTIRE mass of Jupiter into energy.
Somehow, I don't think a Linnard Griffin Electrolysis Reactor would do the trick...LOL!
Ahhhh...where are those Dilithium Crystals when you need them?
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Howdy Y'all,
We really don't have a problem here. Just use the Zero Point Module to generate the power.
Then feed the power to the Hyperspace Window Generator, and fly into the event horizon of the
worm hole, and BAM! your in orbit around Mars before you can blink an eye... Oh, we have to
invent the Zero Point Module and the Hyperspace Window Generator before we can use them?
OK, well, uh, never mind...
Blessed Be Brothers and Sisters...
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Nicolas Gisin, Professor University of Geneva, made experiment where speed of light was exceed 10000 times.
http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2008/813/3
Gruss,
khabe
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Well, speed of light exceeded...
... they showed once again what we already knew: that quantum entangles particles
appear to "communicate" their states instantaneously.
This does not at all mean there must be anything "traveling faster than light".
It does mean that entangled particles are somehow in direct contact despite their
relative distance in space. That doesn't need any true "faster than light" travel
through that space, it just needs a slightly more complex dimensional system
where quantum entanglement is "communicated" via another dimensional axis
than those involved in movement through the 3 dimensions we call space.
Look at it this way: if we could teleport a person to Alpha Centauri instantly,
so that the person dematerialises here and rematerialises there at the same time,
would we call that "faster than light travel"? Nobody actually makes the journey through
space to Alpha Centauri... Nobody actually travels... the person just pops into
existence there... So is that "space flight" and "FTL travel"? Doesn't sound like it to me.
Yes, the person would have changed position with such a distance to time ratio
that it would not be possible to do it by actually physically moving through space at
very high velocity even for photons, and if the person had indeed moved through space
with such tremendous speed the person would indeed have traveled faster than light.
But the person never does so. The person never moves through space at high speed,
the person simply disappears here and re-appears there at the same time.
This is what such entangled particles do: they "teleport" information. They never
communicate that information by sending packets of particles with the encoded
information to eachother, they don't use matter traveling through space to communicate,
and so their communication doesn't really travel through space at the speed of light.
Yes, their communication does occur instantaneous and that is faster than would be
possible if they did use communication that needs to traverse space to get to the other
particle. But since that is not what is happening, there is still nothing moving faster than light.
So even though "spooky action at a distance" does appear to happen faster than light
could traverse that same distance, there is nothing actually physically traveling faster
than light through space. And so it is not FTL. One cannot make a spaceship fly faster than light,
even if we could somehow utilise quantum teleportation. Yes, effectively one might be able
to get somewhere by teleporting a lot faster than light ever could, but you would never actually
move faster than light through space. I guess you'd have to move through subspace of hyperspace
or something like that, circumventing "normal" spacetime, to do something like that.
;)
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I think solar sails( though slow) would be enough to get from from planet to planet.No fuel weight,just the pressure of sunlight from the sun to mars.Then from mars to saturn use concentrated sunlight and
liquid fuels to get around.Once you can get out of earth's gravity field.You would be able to travel the solar system using the sun's energy from the sun to Saturn and at least orbit the other planets.Chemical or nuclear rockets when you leave or land on a planet.I just saw another movie where you have one spacesuit and three men.But all three have to leave one ship to get to the other.Why not have barrels that a person can fit into?With handles?So the one guy with the suit can see that the other two gets into the airlock OK.No one goes floating off into space.Beyond Saturn we would need to use nuclear rockets.This are the tools we have now.Triffid
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I stand corrected.There are some good videos on solar sailing on u-tube.They are able to take us clear out of the solar system to nearby stars.I thought they were only good to get to mars with.Triffid
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OK, silly idea to get some SPEED, from gravity.
There's plans to attached a wire between moon and earth, right? And both vary in distance quite a bit, correct?
Use the wire as a cata pult. Built properly, it will work. Launch from weightlessness, without air resistance.
Catapult maybe be the worng term. It will be like two people holding a wire across the room, it laying straight along the floor. An inverted V shaped object stands over the wire. On 3, PULL. the launch speed will be faster than the pull, and this is even against gravity. So imagine in "empty" space.
Any volunteers to take seat in the catarocket until we figure of a way to dampen the triple digit G forces?
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I like the idea of a wire attached between the moon and the earth.But for two reasons it may not work.First, there is too much stuff in orbit around the earth right now.Something will bump into it.Second,the earth moon system is constantly moving apart.A benefit might be that large electrical energies could be generated promoting travel for free between the earth and moon since the universe and sun,etc would be generating the power.Triffid
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I like the idea of a wire attached between the moon and the earth.But for two reasons it may not work.First, there is too much stuff in orbit around the earth right now.Something will bump into it.Second,the earth moon system is constantly moving apart.A benefit might be that large electrical energies could be generated promoting travel for free between the earth and moon since the universe and sun,etc would be generating the power.Triffid
I forgot about rotations.
The wire might need to suspend in space and engage on both bodies simulatiously. Quite an operation.
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Look at it this way: if we could teleport a person to Alpha Centauri instantly,
so that the person dematerialises here and rematerialises there at the same time,
would we call that "faster than light travel"? Nobody actually makes the journey through
space to Alpha Centauri... Nobody actually travels... the person just pops into
existence there...
Your theory is a little off. I believe that to teleport something you will need a machine on both ends, one to tear you apart and one to put you back together. those machines will have to send your info back and forth, now you can choose radio signal (very slow) or a super laser beam (very fast) to send that info which will have to pass through space which in turn will take time. It will not be instant. poof you are not there yet!!!
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Your theory is a little off. I believe that to teleport something you will need a machine on both ends, one to tear you apart and one to put you back together. those machines will have to send your info back and forth, now you can choose radio signal (very slow) or a super laser beam (very fast) to send that info which will have to pass through space which in turn will take time. It will not be instant. poof you are not there yet!!!
A radio wave propogates at the speed of light, same as a laser. The fastest way to transmit information is probably to vibrate subspace (aka scalar waves, gravity waves, gravitons etc.) propogation speed to any point in the universe is said to take only one plank time quanta which is 10 to the minus 44 seconds which is:
0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds
Here´s a great article that I found a joy to read, plus it tells you how to make a scalar detector for just a couple of dollars.
http://www.rexresearch.com/hodorhys/remag86/remag86.htm
I have built a Hodowanec scalar detector as above and have managed to transmit scalar impulses through a shielded and grounded box to said detector using a FET driven Cadaceus coil outside of the shielded box.
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@Koen1
Your mention of entangled particles is along the lines that I have been considering.
If solid matter could be Entangled like photons are somehow, then we
could accomplish some very interesting things.
I learned about this phenomenon a number of years ago on a science program, and it has intrigued me ever since.
Imagine what it would do for the internet.
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I'm afraid the cheapest route to get into space will be used.But once we get there .The solar system better watch out!!!A thousand years later there will be people everywhere.I watched a couple of dvds on ice age hunters.After they entered the americas.It took them 1000 years to tranverse the americas.Something to think about.History does repeat itself often.Triffid
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how does one determine that a particle is already entangled or not? And if it were already entangled then where is it's entangled buddy. My point being that if at the beggining of the universe it may be that all particles or quite a few may have been entangled and therefore we may already have a stargate type infrastructure at our disposal. Assuming ofcourse we can create a buddy detector.
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Howdy Y'all,
We really don't have a problem here. Just use the Zero Point Module to generate the power.
Then feed the power to the Hyperspace Window Generator, and fly into the event horizon of the
worm hole, and BAM! your in orbit around Mars before you can blink an eye... Oh, we have to
invent the Zero Point Module and the Hyperspace Window Generator before we can use them?
OK, well, uh, never mind...
Blessed Be Brothers and Sisters...
That was really going somewhere till the bit about windows. Blue screen of death. Arrrrrrgh
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I would think that since the whole universe was once contained in a single point before the big bang.That all the matter we can see today is entangled.Triffid
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It would have many implications. I hope one day to return to university and study this field.
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There is some evidence that about 25 to 30 humans crossed the landbridges into the americas about 30,000
years ago.While that picture is fuzzy it holds the promise that it may not take thousands of humans getting off the earth to seed the stars.It may take just a couple of hundred with no major mishaps.Also solar sailing would be one of the ways to go.It would take time.Maybe 3000 years to fill the solar system.Then go out further.No telling where the human race could be in 30,000 years.Just thinking/dreaming here.Triffid
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Oscillating tuned high frequency electro-magnetic fields using the aether. Like an electron riding a conductor?
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Gravity has no propulsion power in Space, Gravity is a Tensor Carrier Field, it has no value as propulsion, what are you going to gravitate off of in deep space?
Light Ships are the future of interplanetary travel and interstellar with induced wormhole vectoring.
I might draw one up but maybe you already know what they look like. This system doesn't use a secondary source of external power as in NASA's design. it has its own power and drive system. there will be nothing new under the Sun.
when inducing a wormhole, the parabolic iris effect is lens shaped, the inverse Archimedes spiral opens the wormhole, the focal length of the parabolic vectoring determines the location the other end of the wormhole exits. so your inverse Archimedes Spiral has to be parabolic to determine where your spaceship will appear otherwise it would be uncontrollable where you exited.
There is no need to travel the distance.
nice little song to fit the bill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__PU5CVSegg
Jerry ;)
Hyperbolic spiral
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I read somewhere that 100,000 tons of dust and other material fall to the earth each and everyday.With the space evelator on its way(20 years?),then solar sailing to other worlds.I think we should develop ways of mining this material already in space.Then we can build whatever we want without the cost of taking it from the earths surface.triffid
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If we mine the material that falls to earth each day before it falls to the earth.We should see a lot of cost savings for our effort in space.What could be done is simply put a negative charge on the mining eqipment since a lot of the dust and matter is positvely charged from the suns inflence. Negative charged nets to suck in the positively charged dust particles could cover a very large area for a very low cost.triffid
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You can get energy from gravity.Io gets heat energy from jupiters gravity and the other 3 moons near it.Its crust is flexed enough to generate a molten core.So nature has already shown us how to get heat from gravity.And we have used gravity on certain spacecraft to pick up speed. triffid
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If you go the distance, you will lose the cup.
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Somebody asked me today if the moon was hollow.I almost said yes.And that we had found oil and gas on it.The moons of jupiter contain hydrocarbons for real.No coal that we know of.At some point someone will start an oil company in space.Then gasoline rockets would be the wave of the future.triffid
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Please watch.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rl3Z9yCTn8&feature=related
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgsKlSnUO0k&feature=related
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6o_-yTa168&feature=related
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSOPq9rZYcU&feature=related
Special and general relativity, please watch all 4 parts. if you want to break all the laws of physics you have to shut down just one law, Relativity. velocity is one way and accumulated energy is another like a black hole which acts more like a condensate then anything else, Electromagnetism(Magnetism) can be more efficient at popping Relativity because it requires less bang for the buck than gravity would. Electromagnetism is pound for pound magnitudes stronger than Gravity.
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We humans can use electromagnetism a heck of a lot easier than gravity.Io generates heat on a planetary scale from gravity forces flexing its surface.We of course would have to do it on a much smaller scale.I don't know to do that.But I can make an electromagnet that works.triffid
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I was looking to some FBI witness reports, released and freely available to the public on the FBI site:
http://vault.fbi.gov/UFO/UFO%20Part%202%20of%2016/view (http://vault.fbi.gov/UFO/UFO%20Part%202%20of%2016/view)
What i find interesting is that some different reported ufo crashes had similarities.
It does not look extraterrestrial, but it does look like back in those days some people where experimenting with the same (unknown?) technologies.
As i see it..
It is mainly one or two radio tubes, some wire and alumium plates.
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A perfect space craft would have no moving parts, the entire ship being a sleekly contoured uni-body, no doors, no windows, reflects all radiation, not necessarily silver, but more of an Exotic dielectric material under a super skin of exotic super hard films. the entire body riddled with micro electronics that allow the ship to see in 360* x 360*, when in fact, you are sitting in your pit the panoramic room gives you the feeling of sitting in a chair with uni-body console in mid air or in mid space. sort of like sitting in a hologram of whats on the outside. yes, in a perfect space craft, teleportation is used in stead of doors. no seams anywhere. perfectly smooth surface. the ship is designed to last forever, moving parts would not allow this. there is more but I am off to watch a movie.
Jerry 8)
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Check out the ship in this vid @4:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4J96h_2--U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4J96h_2--U)
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I once saw a picture of a young kid next to a 2 foot disk he had found.The thing had been powered from a car battery and it was beeping.So that one had been a prank.It happened in england.I saw the picture about 1993.No mystery there.triffid
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Here is a way to get food from the use of gravity. http://www.hedgehogleatherworks.com/Figure-Four-Deadfall-s/64.htm triffid