GREAT JOB LuC!!!! ;D
Whats the part number or value for the bridge? I wanna try too ;D
Luc.Hi Loner, thanks for looking. I will try your suggestion above and introduce the coil at that location, however I would be surprised if it makes a better reaction but one never knows. I will post if it give better results.
Have you checked out the effect of putting the small coil you were using previously, (Saw all videos)
between the HV diode and the Plug. I think you will be VERY happy and surprised with the result.
Just a thought.
As a little "Correction", what you are using IS a capacitive discharge ignition.
Art.
Nice work, Luc. I think you hit the nail on the head regarding the simplicity of this kind of circuit. Bedini and Bearden talk about the downword side of a short, sharp voltage spike as being capable of drawing radiant energy into a circuit. You seem to have achieved this phenomenon.Hi Bob Smith, thanks for looking and your positive comment, you know it ;)
B
GREAT WORK Luc!Hi Geo, thanks for looking also. A schematic will come but I am asking for help to do a good looking one, so if anyone can help please do it as best you can from looking at the video and I will correct it if needed. I need to see support from everyone here, the schematic is not complicated.
I can hardly wait to see the schematic diagrams of this circuit and parts list. I have 2 donor cars now. My 2nd donor car is a '98 Ford Windstar with all the pollution and computer crap on it.
I will keep everyone posted!
Regards,
Geo
Luc, try running more than 1 hvr-1x diode in parallel to allow more dc current flow to the plug, those diodes are 12kv 0.5a.Hi ninjadaniel, thanks for looking and the suggestion, I will try it.
WOW look great!!!!!!! 8)Hi Haliburton, thank you also for looking.
Good job Luc. 8)Hi nightlife, glad to see you here ;D. You are so very correct ;) this is not like anything out there. I just go a 4 stroke lawn mower motor from a friend. I will be testing it this weekend.
As far as it being the same as mdbreedi's Cold Fusion Plasma 9 video, I have to disagree. Yours is more controllable as well as the heat is not as hot and therefore makes for a better design.
We have to keep the heat down when burning HHO due to the intensity of the heat that HHO can produce. The heat will melt the pistons but your setup doesn?t seam to be that hot and therefore may just be what we need.
I would like to see the results while under compression. A good test motor maybe something like a weed eater or lawn mower engine.
All in all, congratulations and thank you for sharing your experiment and details of your experiment with us.
I watched it and he almost has the right
design. the only part is the second out put. it needs to go through a
coil with two windings through a main winding, this will boost the
voltage to the plug by about 80 percent more. The 110 volts needs to
boost the HV discharge more than what he has it doing. I am going to
post the parts but I want to find the comon parts that are used on
all the engines that are being tested before I do. The relay I first
used has two coils in it, we looked for them for a long time even as
we designed our own to test. NO you wont find F.A.S.T. Rescearch &
Development listed as a company name or any where other than on the
front of this group page. It is just a bumch of people got together
and do stuff that betters the way we live.
Here is what s1r says about the gotoluc video:Hi vlindos, thanks for looking :) and posting the coment s1r wrote. Here it is again and below are two other messages he has sent me.
Hi Bob Smith, thanks for looking and your positive comment, you know it ;)
Luc
Hi Geo, thanks for looking also. A schematic will come but I am asking for help to do a good looking one, so if anyone can help please do it as best you can from looking at the video and I will correct it if needed. I need to see support from everyone here, the schematic is not complicated.
Hey I also have a 98 Ford Windstar.
Luc
Once the high voltage jumps the gap in the spark plug it creates a plasma " channel " that is relativly low resistance ......... the much lower voltage can follow this path as long as the high voltage maintains the channelFrom Cap70 i think..
The high voltage is in effect the switch for the lower voltage .
Looks like you got one outta the park, Luc. nice!Excellent work librame ;) , It looks very good.
Here is a rough schematic from what I could gather out of the vid. Its a bit cartoonish, but its a start. I don't know if I got all the diode sizes right, but it was all done in paint so it will be easy to fix.
Cheers!
@gotoluc: Great stuff Luc! :D Once again I am impressed. ;D Keep up the good work, I'll drop in every now and then ;)Hi Koen1, thanks for coming by to add your comment to stick with a replication first before moving to other directions.
Please let's stick to Lucs experiment?
l8r bro 8)Hi IS, thanks for coming to have a look. Excellent suggestions and everyones input has value here and is important but lets not go to much ahead at this time. Lets bring all these great suggestion when we need them. So IS please keep an eye on this topic and give your great ideas when others can start testing them. Thanks IS
ist
luc 1 more thing wile im on this topic lets add a tranny to the system so we can increase the current of the bemf and a really kool thing would be if the battery was recharged as well as the fuel being burnt ...
how can we do this ?? just add another coil and a plug to a return path to the battery.... 8)
so now you pay for the plug to be fired but it returns and burns the fuel for free :) ;) 8)
enjoy!!
Hi Luc, in the video, are you first charging the cap with one lead and then removing it and firing it with the other lead or are you charging the cap and leaving the lead on while you fire with the other lead?
Everyone, please... we want to keep this topic clean. DO NOT POST OTHER SUBJECTS.
Luc
Luc, can you please try to remove the big diode and just use the cap charge and no connection from the inverter to theHi Stefan,
sparkplug ?
Will this be the same discharge spark or does the rectified AC also flow via the spark discharge and make the spark bigger ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
wow! I think I just some ious BOOM here I have a 555timer driving the coil with an MOSFETWow :D , that's great news, mostly if you are seeing the red glow around the plug ;).
I was getting the standard little spark from the plug. I just hooked up 2 3KV DC caps from an
old monitor across the plug and I am getting some very nice plasma sparks and what I consider
loud from previous tests. if I dribble some warer on it id gets much louder and there are flashes
of red all around the plug! I think I am on to somthing here with this. the 555timer is just to pulse
the coil it is around 60hz and I can adjust it. I am going to experiment a bit more then try and get
somthing out to you all.
I will be on this weekend so feel free to ask questions.
22vision
maybe I will get a pic and so you can see : )
To answer your questions above, no discharging the 150uf cap charged to 108vdc through the coil only with the rest of the circuit removed will only do a standard spark.
Hi Luc,Hi Ossie, thanks for looking.
Thank you for your very interesting experiment.
Regards,
Ossie
Check Ed Gray's work.........Hi Erfinder, thanks for looking at this topic. I am happy ;D to see you here. I hope we have the real thing here ;)
Regards
OK...my setup, per Luc's plans.... I get a great spark... red-ish/white (it varies) nice little snap....BUT, i think it could be better! All i could get my hands on is a 220uf/250v cap. So how important is the uF of the cap and what value should it be? I dont really have a "mister/sprayer" to fully test with also. I got a el-cheapo 400w inverter from harbor fright tools, does not seem to bog down at any times. I thought i would try a "normal" spark with the coil ... not that impressive!!! LOL ;DGreat work xbox hacker ;D. The uf of the cap is not so important!.. I tested with different values and I could not see the difference and I don't know why that is yet, so experiment as you wish with that and post your findings.
Also..how many Ohms (or less) should the plug be?
UPDATE: I GOT A MUCH BETTER SPARK!!!!!...its almost as good as yours luc... ;DThat is a good tool to find ideal gap. Keep up the research and post your findings. If anyone here can help start collecting all the details and prepair a pdf of a parts list, how to modify the spark plug and all the new findings, that would be a great help.
my trick was to use a "spark gap arc checker" (i think its called) you can get them at any auto parts store, so the resistance is ultra LOW (until i can find the right plug).... i will post a image as soon as i get the pic off my phone. And have some MORE beer!
One interesting thing i did notice is: The checker has a screw that you adjust to make the gap from 0 to 1" .... the farther i make the gap the more DC volts i get from the tip to the ground... ??? normal?
Hi Luc,Hi Stefan, okay I'll try that for you :D but I have to let you know that I love boating and if it works you just might loose me ;D
can you try to put your electrodes directly under water in a water bath and
see what happens then, when you make the discharge ?
Could you this way also make a boat propell due to water shockwaves ?
Do you have a scope and can then show on a shuntresistor the current through the brigde rectifier, when the spark gap has fired ?Yes I do have a new USB 40Mhz 100MS/s scope which also has a spectrum analyzer. But please know that electronics is not my thing so I may need a step by step (not to operate the scope) but on how and where to hook up the probes, also the max voltage input of the scope is 35 volts, the model of the scope is DSO-2090. I also have a shunt. So guide me through it.
Is is a 120 Hz pulse current train flowing from the inverter through the spark gap then when the high voltage from the ignition coil has made the sparkgap conductive ?
How many amps flow for how long during the spark ?
Regards, Stefan.
one thing i'm curious about: would the spark be better if you swapped the microwave diode with the 1N4007?I'm not sure if I did that test? but that is a good idea. I'll try it now and let you know.
may the force be with you ;)
A possible experiment if you have two inverters is to bridge rectify the output on each inverter then add the outputs together in series to a large voltage capacitor get a higher output voltage.Hi hydrocontrol, thanks for looking :D. Interesting idea you have there. I though about something like that but what I was thinking is inverters in Europe, would they not be already 220v or so? Hope we can get someone from Europe, India or Astrailia to replicate this. We shall see.
Hi Luc,Hi atlantex, thanks for your reply and looking at this topic. I hope we can get a replication with one of these and see the difference in the results.
thanks for sharing your discovery. The european inverters have an output of 230V AC.
cheers
atlantex
Hi Luc,
thanks for sharing your discovery. The european inverters have an output of 230V AC.
cheers
atlantex
Hi All,
I have fully replicated the effect that Luc describes and shows. It is truly astounding! With no water and a dry spark plug you get normal cap discharges and nothing special. Spray a bit of water and it is like fire crackers going off! The water will continue to explode when fired repetitively until it has all gone from within the spark plug. This can take a minute or two at a 1 second repitition rate. The more fine the water and spray, the more powerfull an explosion and it is undoubtedly an extreme fuel based explosion which in this case, the fuel is water. Please see my video where I have tried to capture the explosions with angle shots but my digital camera does not do justice in representing the true power of the explosive ignitions of the water. This is very real stuff indeed folks!
http://www.youtube.com/m1a9r9s9
I am attaching a circuit diagram of my test setup and some pictures to this post. Regarding the circuit, the most important part of the discharge side is the need for a high current high voltage diode. I have simply used 16 x 1N5404 in series. They are 4 amp diodes. My oscillator is a basic radiant oscillator that I released years ago and is a very good and simple radiant energy oscillator. As far as RE being at work here, we all need to do much more experimentation to prove it is required as opposed to convention energy. I do know that my simple circuit uses 1-1.5 amps input at 12 volts and this energy input can be brought down significantly with more efficient circuit design.
Regards,
Ossie
<snip>
I'm wondering if a spark plug ignition coil like you are doing produces flyback. Maybe try sending a wire from the ignition coil positive to the battery positive but through a diode. See if the battery power goes up while producing the sparks or if the sparks are no longer produced. lol
<snip>
The other question would be what is the point of this. Do you think an engine will be able to use such high sparking. Will the engine timing limitations be in conflict with the timing limitations of such a spark system. Can this possibly produce hydrogen?
<snip>
I have what appears to be a stupid idea, that may show something ( or may not ).
What if you spray gasoline, with the same sprayer, instead of watter
Video of a sparkplug plasma ball using only 9 volt batteries! Pure DC!Hi yaz, thanks for looking and bringing us this excellent video demo. Our circuit can do the same thing ;) all you do is short the plug tip like he does in the video (for a microsecond) and watch the flame go and also watch your plug get ruined ;D. One might want to increase the gap to as large as you can. Once the RE Plasma Flame is started, I was able to have as much as a 1/2 inch gap. See the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhXPEHM7Cv4
Wonder if hooking up a capacitor and/or inverter would increase the intensity?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iNCzhP7754&NR=1
Great.. The only problem being that this would be harder for people in the US to get one of these 230VAC inverters so I was thinking getting two 110VAC from WallyWorld and a couple of bridge rectifiers from RadioShaft would be easier. I think getting high voltage caps might be easy as a lot of computer power supplies have high voltage caps in them so a couple of scavanged dead computer power supplies could be the ticket for cheaper replication.Hi hydrocontrol, we can look on ebay of India or other contries and get them there ;) Yes, Everyone reuse parts, we are throwing out so many good components every day I find computer monitors, power supplies, microwave ovens and the list goes on.
If the diagram is correct I presume the 1n4007 would be damaged by now. Can you please confirm if the 4007 is used between the coil and the plug and the microwave between the full wave and the plug. Could they be the other way around?Hi willitwork, thanks for looking. I have already confirmed that it is still intact, some posts up. Please read this post: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.msg108536.html#msg108536
If the diagram is correct please confirm if the 4007 is still intact.
Hi All,Hi Ossie, ;D ;D ;D Excellent work ;) I am very happy.
I have fully replicated the effect that Luc describes and shows. It is truly astounding! With no water and a dry spark plug you get normal cap discharges and nothing special. Spray a bit of water and it is like fire crackers going off! The water will continue to explode when fired repetitively until it has all gone from within the spark plug. This can take a minute or two at a 1 second repitition rate. The more fine the water and spray, the more powerfull an explosion and it is undoubtedly an extreme fuel based explosion which in this case, the fuel is water. Please see my video where I have tried to capture the explosions with angle shots but my digital camera does not do justice in representing the true power of the explosive ignitions of the water. This is very real stuff indeed folks!
http://www.youtube.com/m1a9r9s9
I am attaching a circuit diagram of my test setup and some pictures to this post. Regarding the circuit, the most important part of the discharge side is the need for a high current high voltage diode. I have simply used 16 x 1N5404 in series. They are 4 amp diodes. My oscillator is a basic radiant oscillator that I released years ago and is a very good and simple radiant energy oscillator. As far as RE being at work here, we all need to do much more experimentation to prove it is required as opposed to convention energy. I do know that my simple circuit uses 1-1.5 amps input at 12 volts and this energy input can be brought down significantly with more efficient circuit design.
Regards,
Ossie
Hi Ossie, ;D ;D ;D Excellent work ;) I am very happy.
I don't know if anyone here would have ideas how to capture a photo of the orange red glow that is going on when the water spray is applied to the plug when it fires?
It would be nice to post a picture of that since the video camera does not pick it up.
Luc
If avaiable use Faster Diodes than 1N5400 series.Hi pese, thanks for looking at this topic and offering your advice to help ;D
Use AVALANCHE diode to protect against hi voltages peak.
so i tpmt need 16 diodes.
with faster diodes (switching time) you have also more efficientce in output voltages -
Gustav Pese
Gotoluc & Callanan,Hi Dread, thanks for coming to this topic, a good suggestion also to see if steam has the same effect or does it get better or worse. A definite simple test to do today.
You might want to think about replacing the water sprayer with steam from an electric kettle, this would simulate heated vapour in ICE (pre-ignition) also, if you could run the steam through a strong EM field prior to igniting it, the effects might be worth the effort.
BTW. I believe S1R's surge issues are nothing more than inconsistent water metering.
Rgds. to all.
I'm wondering if a spark plug ignition coil like you are doing produces flyback. Maybe try sending a wire from the ignition coil positive to the battery positive but through a diode. See if the battery power goes up while producing the sparks or if the sparks are no longer produced. lolHi wattsup, I'm happy to see you dropped in ;D flyback is definitely something that I will be testing if you know my style. Did you read my posts from the beginning? did you see the RE Plasma Flame video I am getting from the inverter with a FWBR? I think that may have to do with the effect, so I think it may have to do with the non sine wave output of the inverter. The idea is to have a ICE running on water. Replicators and myself are already seeing an orange red flame (which cannot be captured on video) around the plug when it fires when sprayed with water, I think that would be Hydrogen.
On the other hand, is this not possible with just straight wall socket AC power rectified then pulsed as you are doing. Meaning, do you really need the battery and the inverter to make the spark system work.
The other question would be what is the point of this. Do you think an engine will be able to use such high sparking. Will the engine timing limitations be in conflict with the timing limitations of such a spark system. Can this possibly produce hydrogen?
Hi Luc and Ossi, did you remove the internal resistor from the sparkplug first before doing your experiments ?Hi Stefan, yes internal resistor is removed, this is mentioned that it is and how to do it at the beginning of topic. That is a good video on how to do it.
See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reYRkG39XHw
Do you think you can still get the required input power down ?
It would be interesting to know, if also only alone with the high voltage low current discharge the water could be blown up like this maybe via a bigger charged capacitor ?
Also, why is the spark blown out ?
Or is the explosion of te water itsself blowing out the water ?
In the video with the 24 x 9 Volts batteries the spark did continue to burn when ignited, so where is the difference in this water firing ?
Luc and Ossi,
do you think the spark explosion is big enough to propell a cylinder, so a motor could be done running on this water explosion ?
Regards, Stefan.
He is also getting a nice flame:This was posted here before and I think it is off topic since he is using electrolyte in his water. It is just a show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs-Uk511S_I
Regards, Stefan.
I feel like a bit of a dolt for asking this, but electronics is not a strong area of knowledge for me.Hi Will, thanks for looking at this topic and speaking your truth. You have an excellent point and I do also see it the way you do. I am asking for help to do up a single page document that could be easier to understand but that can take some time. This topic is only 2 days old so it will get there with the Grace of God's will.
Could one of you Brilliant, Generous people please post a write-up of what is going on here and why this is so exciting in layman's terms?
How is this different from a normal spark plug and why? What advantages does this offer? Could this be easily adapted to current auto-tech?, Etc...
Additionally, since I am not an electronics person and don't have the time to learn all this to contribute to the testing of various configs, I am more than willing to offer my skills in animation, video production, web design and database development to contribute to bringing this to the masses.
Much love & peace to all.
Thanks.
Will
Hi Luc, I believe the direct power that you initially supplied to the plug actually energizes the water that is spayed on the plug. The water can be energized before being introduced to the plug.@nightlife
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/WFCprojects/Joe%20Cell/Charging%20Water.wmv
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/WFCprojects/Joe%20Cell/Shock%20Group.wmv
If this is true, it would be better to have the water pre-energized before introducing it to the plug,
Being able to place a charge in water as the videos you listed show, has "Nothing" to do with the "Energy Capacity" of the water. It is simple to get water to hold a charge, but it does not increase the energy available from it.
How to get the resistor out of the sparkplug:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J2AHNZUZD0
Can somebody please measure what the Ohm value of this resistor is ?
Is it in the 1 to 10 Ohm range or KOhms ?
... I have what appears to be a stupid idea ...What if you spray gasoline, with the same sprayer ...?
Hey guys,Hi bigblue, welcome to this topic. Your understanding of what we would like to do is correct. However we are not the one who did the 18 hp engine video, the person who did the video is not sharing his circuit as you can see in his video the parts are in a metal tin. Here we share what we have and ideas of ways we can do this. We have a circuit that is giving positive results but as far as I know none of us have tried it in an engine yet. This circuit was just discovered about 3 days ago, so we are asking anyone who is interested to build it, test it and share your findings and ideas to improve the circuit if at all possible.
Just new to the site and it seems very exciting. It seems that you are wanting to (by viewing the video of the 18 hp lawn mower engine on the cinderblock running on water) run an engine on water internally and not externally with a Hydrogen Gen. , feeding water directly into the combustion chamber and changing it there, by utilizing a plasma spark? I believe that is a brilliant idea, I even printed off the electrical diagram with the inverter and 12volt coil, you all posted in the last few days. I came across the FIRESTORM spark plug invention on the web and it sure looks like what we need for this application, it is a plasma emitting spark plug.....................God Bless ................J
Hi Luc, I believe the direct power that you initially supplied to the plug actually energizes the water that is spayed on the plug. The water can be energized before being introduced to the plug.Hi nightlife, that is very interesting...can you find out the process involve in charging the water?
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/WFCprojects/Joe%20Cell/Charging%20Water.wmv
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/WFCprojects/Joe%20Cell/Shock%20Group.wmv
If this is true, it would be better to have the water pre-energized before introducing it to the plug,
@nightlifeHi DrStiffler, thanks for dropping in. That is a good point also.
Being able to place a charge in water as the videos you listed show, has "Nothing" to do with the "Energy Capacity" of the water. It is simple to get water to hold a charge, but it does not increase the energy available from it.
I'm a little bit confused about the picture in post 1.Hi atlantex, thanks for posting your concern. The Neo magnet is not needed and has now been removed.
How is the neodyn magnet exactly connected?
atlantex
Hi Luc,Hi eastcoastwilly, thanks for looking at this topic and sharing your thought. I would think your idea deserve to be tested, why not :D
Great work from you and great input from others. Further to nightlife's suggestion of energizing water I wonder what effect using freshly Ozonated water would have on the effect. Many people are mis-informed about ozone, it is VERY, reactive to most inorganic materials, however Ozone is one of natures wonders for purging the planet from toxins. I don't know if a cheap (O3) water ozonator would saturate enough O3 into the water to make a difference but It might be interesting :)
Good luck and keep up the great work folks
Will
Hi Luc and OTHERS,Hi Geo, you have a good understanding and many good points, is that really a "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter" container ;D
I guess no forum is immune to off topic posts. I was truly hoping things would be different here with better moderating of the posts. Bottom line: Although HHO and electrolysis is a great concept, and just one workable solution to eliminating the use of fossil fuels, this thread was supposed to ONLY be for determining/developing/replicating and maybe enhancing the circuit used in S1R's project.
TO EVERYONE:
The action between water vapor and a plasma arc IS NOT instantaneous disassociation of water into its components, hydrolysis of any kind and really NOT the topic of this thread!
It is very similar to Flash Steam, if not flash steam itself! It is very similar to Lightening and Thunder. Lightening and Thunder is the discharge of high energy which pushes the air molecules between the water vapor molecules in the atmosphere at supersonic speeds. Thunder is essentially a sonic boom which we not only hear, but also FEEL its concussion.
This is not a chemical - combustion reaction... it is a physical - concussion reaction with enough concussive force to push a piston down.
Now, can we please get back to developing the best circuit which Luc started, and work together to focus on this ALONE. There are a million other forums out there for awesome alternative energy systems, but extraneous to this particular thread.
As S1R's videos already showed, he IS running the Briggs & Straton engine on water ALONE. We just don't know what components are in the silver painted "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter" container, which is what Luc felt he had a handle on, and started this thread.
PLEASE! Let's work together and help each other moving forward with what Luc started and not deviate from the task at hand... to recreate the circuit in the "mystery container." The rest of the project is already known.
Respectfully,
Geo
Hi Stephan,WOW :D Ossie, you are my hero. Thanks for the excellent written report and support. I knew it wasn't going to be an easy task to do but you are a God send to help this way.
>Hi Luc and Ossi,
did you remove the internal resistor from the sparkplug first
before doing your experiments ?
- My spark plug does not have any resistor. It measures 0 ohms.
> Do you think you can still get the required input power down ?
- Most definately. But I would have never believed I could get water to explode on demand even with the 1-1.5 amp at 12 volts I am using. Seeing and hearing is believing guys. This is very real indeed and practically very simple to replicate once you understand the key requirements.
> It would be interesting to know, if also only alone with the
high voltage low current discharge the water could be blown up like
this maybe via a bigger charged capacitor ?
- The goal must be to come up with the best circuit for the least energy input. At this stage I don't know if this will mean it will be a capacitive discharge or power on demand circuit. I think that maybe a power on demand circuit with DC pulses at the correct frequency, pulse width and voltage may result in the least energy input. Plenty of lab work to do for all of us but because this is the first alternative energy system that I now believe is truly practical for the home experimenter to build and use, we need to stop all the speculation and guessing and theory and simply analyse technically what has been achieved practically as the overall system and process is very simple. So simple that if you are from a technical or scientific background, you would never beilieve it...
> Also, why is the spark blown out ?
- Simply because it is a very violent explosiong of the water. It is a true and real explosion indeed!!! What you are seeing that is poorly captured by the video is the extremly fast expanding gases of a violent explosion that also creates a loud bang like a fire cracker! It does have a red colour to the gas that does not get captured by the camera as well. I used my digital still camera which does video but no sound. If I get time I will try and capture it on my digital handy cam with the sound and better quality. Just a pain to capture it to PC and convert then upload to youtube but it is important to show.
> As Ossi has real high DC power at his cap, the spark should be able
to burn after the firing of the hv coil ?
- No. Why? The process is simply this and why it can easily be adapted to any combustion engine with a standard ignition system. All you need is a DC voltage supply of a few hundred volts, even just 100 volts, sitting across the spark plug in parallel with the car's normal and standard ignition system. Put water through the fuel system instead of petrol. When the normal HV spark from the standard ignition system occurs, it will ionise the air-water mixture between the spark plug gap and provide a conductive path for the DC voltage supply to flow. When the DC supply flows through the ionised air-water mixture, it instantaneously dissassociates the H2O and ignites the dissassociated hydrogen and oxygen gases. This explosion causes a violent expansion of the gases which pushes the engines cylinders down and drives the motor action of the engine in sequence.
- So the water does NOT burn. It explodes instantaneously and will continue to explode for every ignition pulse as long as there is moisture in the gap. When the moisture is gone there is no explosion. But it does not take much moisture and it seems that even a very humid rainy day may have enough moisture in the air for some small but limited ignitions. I am sure the current air humidity percentage will effect the efficiency of the overall process. Heat and steam work very well but is not needed as an external input as the spark plug gets so hot it starts to heat the moisture in the gap on it's own in a very short time. Please understand that I agree that this is unbelievable but now I am doing this on the lab bench and it is very real and very simple.
> Or is the explosion of te water itsself blowing out the water ?
- Yes, exactly! The water itself explodes and is blowing out very voilently!
> In the video with the 24 x 9 Volts batteries the spark did continue to
burn when ignited, so where is the difference in this water firing ?
I don't know what is going on in that video but I don't think it really fit's in this very valuable thread. Luc well and truly needs a pat on the back.
> Luc and Ossi,
do you think the spark explosion is big enough
to propell a cylinder, so a motor could be done running
on this water explosion ?
- I have no doubt about it now. If you have read the pdf based on S1R9A9M9 work, I believe this can be done. He did it with little electronics knowledge and standard components and equipment. With just a little engineering, the whole process can be made so much more efficient and simple and applied to any combustion engine. The pdf can be found here.
http://waterpoweredcar.com/watercar.pdf
Regards,
Ossie
I think we are very very close to getting to an all water ICE. An idea I am tossing around right now I got from the waterfuel1978 group, use a transformer to combine signals and boost voltages. Think about it, this could fit in that little tuna can and work very well!!! Could it be this easy? Why hasn't anyone found this out yet besides s1r and us? Are we on the verge of a truly remarkable technology? I THINK SO!!Hi Super God, glad you came by ;D
According to s1r's comment on the yahoogroup the third wire coming from the spark plug boot is to kill the engine, shorting out the spark.
Do you have a link to the comment you speak of? As for a third wire coming from the boot, I have yet to see a "boot" and there are only two wires attached to the nipple of the spark plug. The wire that comes from the nipple that is bared, may just be used to kill the motor. The only three wire configuration seen, are those attached to what ever is in the container.
Luc, please don't get upset if we discuss s1r's setup here because I feel it has a lot to do with this topic as well as what can be figured out about his setup can contribute to yours and this topic. The way yours setup is designed, it will take a extra timing sequence to energize the cap and I don?t see s1r?s set up having a second timing setup. This tells me that there must be a easier way and we should all study s1r?s setup to find out what it is.Hi nightlife and everyone, please do fell free to discus the s1r's system since the circuit I posted is a replication attempt of his. The circuit I suggested is not like his but it does show a good effect.
If you prefer, we can start a new thread and discuss his setup there. I just feel it would best to discuss them both here so that we can all stay on the same level.
Have any try this ?Hi Pese,
its work?
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=hMEFPgaNj9U&NR=1 100% Hyfrogen car
Gustav Pese
Hi All,
....
In my videos, you will see I am now replicating an engine's ignition system using a signal generator switching a transistor driver that pulses an ignition coil at 20 Hz. This is powered seperately by a small 12V battery although the sig gen is powered from mains power.
I am now using a 300W 12-240V DC to AC inverter to charge up a small capacitor that is effectively in parallel with the spark plug via some diodes. The system works very well, as you can see in the video and only uses 2-2.5 amps on the inverter's input.
Please see following a circuit diagram of my latest setup and some pictures.
Regards,
Ossie
@ Luc and all,
When u guys get this figured out pretty well, can you make a diagram that is easily understood for those of us that do not have any electrical background? I mean you will need to spell everything out specifically, for me, at least. I dont know what the different symbols mean and such. Keep up the great work!!!
MArk
Luc: i saw you new diagram. That is much more like S1r's. But i saw something that didnt look right to me, i made a change on your image, let me know if i am right ;)Hi xbox hacker and everyone, I'm back home now but I think I posted the circuit in too much of a hurry before going out. Let me think about this again. I had a clear idea but my EE skills are not as good as my thoughts.
Hi All,WOW Ossie, I did not have enough time to check your post before going out but just now I looked at your video and it looks great ;)
Please see my two new videos here:
http://www.youtube.com/m1a9r9s9
I believe I have replicated a setup that does the same thing as s1r9a9m9 shows in his videos. I believe the setup configuration can allow a combustion engine to be run on water only instead of petrol/gas through the same fuel system on the engine.
In my videos, you will see I am now replicating an engine's ignition system using a signal generator switching a transistor driver that pulses an ignition coil at 20 Hz. This is powered seperately by a small 12V battery although the sig gen is powered from mains power.
I am now using a 300W 12-240V DC to AC inverter to charge up a small capacitor that is effectively in parallel with the spark plug via some diodes. The system works very well, as you can see in the video and only uses 2-2.5 amps on the inverter's input.
With this new setup I was again surprised to find that even after running it continuously for 15 minutes, the spark plug is stone cold to the touch. The water explosions are cold and there is no heat that I can feel. I cannot explain this and my assumption that it was hot and warmed up the water was incorrect. It is a cold explosion or the explosion itself cools the plug tremendously through very fast evaporation of the water. So it would seem that because the explosions may actually cool the cylinder, external heating to assist the humidity and moisture content of the air may be required after all for cooler climates. Also, there is no smell whatsoever and only cold moisture around the spark plug.
Please see following a circuit diagram of my latest setup and some pictures.
Regards,
Ossie
@ LucHi exxcomm0n, at the speed Ossie is going he may just install it strait to the cumbustion engine.
I apologize for my previous post as I did not read enough and it was not relevant to your experiment.
I would like to propose that the next step (after successful replication) be to replicate the effect in a closed atmosphere (with some sort of pressure gauge) to measure the energy produced by the radical disassociation of the water by plasma.
I thinking of a cheap clear plastic soda bottle with the label peeled off, a modified spark plug "screwed" into the side, a pressure gauge in the lid/cap, and a way to introduce water mist into the air tight atmosphere of the bottle.
I will try to replicate your schematic and do this (I will need the help of a ham radio friend to realize the electronics).
A very exciting effect, and I hope to contribute good factual data to your discovery.
:D
Great circuit design! We here in the US do not have 220-240 50 Hz mains nor use 220-240 VAC 50 Hz inverters. Not being an electrical circuit design person, can you draw the same circuit you graciously gave us only using 12 VDC to 110-120 VAC 60 Hz inverter. Also, is the signal generator powered by 220-240 VAC mains required for this to work? Please post to the forum or email me.
The drawing shows a voltage doubling circuit.Hi Larry, glad ;D to see you here. Thanks for the circuit.
Regards, Larry
Hi Larry, glad ;D to see you here. Thanks for the circuit.
UPDATE!!!!!!!! ;D
Drop the bridges you dont need them!! here is a diagram of my working circuit!!!!!
IT WORKS!!!!!
Keep you spark gap @ .050 - .060... too small and the inverter bogs down @ .050 and up it runs normal!
It has a nice BRIGHT flash and a big SNAP! I do have a video camera, but no way to get too to the computer (i am working on that now) ;)
ALSO... dont try to gap the plug with a metal gap-er while the inverter is on....LOL....OUCH!! ::)
Hi Gotoluc
Great work!
I tried a simple test to see if I could get the water to "burn" and it wasn't that hard to do. I used a small TV chassis to feed High voltage to a pair of microwave capacitors wired in parallel and then to a spark plug with the resistor removed. It would charge the capacitors and discharge at it's own frequency with a very strong white spark. When I sprayed water on it (FINE MIST) it would flash a bright orange flame much larger than the original spark. The effect lasts for several other sparks until the water burns off.
I am truly amazed that a simple high voltage setup can actually flash water.
Here is my setup.
http://picasaweb.google.com/vincemormile/WaterTest/photo?authkey=gITG9gFcghI#5217442680332392498
Vince
@Luc,
your new circuit makes not much sense to me.
The effect is, that a high voltage spike from the ignition coil
creates a ionized conductive channel for the low voltage cap charge
to be discharged and instantly creating steam and electrolysed HHO,
which burns off in a Bang...
Regards, Stefan.
VIDEO UPDATE!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuK80kL6O64
I realise that the ultimate goal is to replace petrol/gas entirely, but seeing as 99% of cars will need their timing retarded, (non-trivial, especially as 99% of cars on the road are of the newer variety) wouldn't this idea on its own result in a significant increase in mpg? It would be much easier to test on a real car engine as well...
By the way, did you hear that jcbx of waterfuel1978 got his volvo running on water? There's two. Who's next? RACE I SAY! Haha.
xbox hacker,
What is the excessive clicking noise in the back ground? It doesn't match the time of the spark and I hear more clicks then I see sparks.
that sound is me slapping the jumper cable on the positive terminal of the coil...i dont have a momentary switch to put in line. I had put the ever most smallest amount of water on the plug. I am in south Florida, its high humidity on film day and just started to rain. I was still trying to get a arc sfter the water was gone.... Luc had the same results in his video ;)
The drawing shows a voltage doubling circuit.
Regards, Larry
Schematic update!!
extra diode for inverter protection. I dont have any, so results will have to wait till tomorrow.
xbox hacker, I don?t recall a diode in between the inverter and the spark plug on the one lead. Why do you feel one placed in between is necessary?Both diode will give only positive DC to both end of spark.
ITS NOT DUBLING !!
it give normal DC Voltages out.
12volts AC wil give 15volts DC approx
ITS NOT DUBLING !!
it give normal DC Voltages out.
12volts AC wil give 15volts DC approx
xbox hacker, I don?t recall a diode in between the inverter and the spark plug on the one lead. Why do you feel one placed in between is necessary?Your right, but...
CAN NOT WORK.Thats what you would think...but it did work as shown in rev2... i still got a good plasma arc, if i flip the diode on the very bottom of the schematic the other way, then it does not work at all!! i only have a 1n4002...i need to full test with a 1n4007 (to feel safe ;) )
ONE of the 2 Diodes tat was wired to the invert , from them
is minimum ONE in wrong direction (polarity)
Also 2 Diodes not becessara- oneis enough
Pese
then took the positive jumper cable to tap it on the positive side of the coil to make the arc at the plug...and BLAM...invert took a dump! LOL I replaced the fuse, and applied power to the inverter and it started to smoke! So its dun!
Luc, Outstanding sharing, Thank you!!! I'm working on replicating your example and watching all this come together with great interest. Chris
UPDATE!!!!!!!! ;D
Drop the bridges you dont need them!! here is a diagram of my working circuit!!!!!
IT WORKS!!!!!
Keep you spark gap @ .050 - .060... too small and the inverter bogs down @ .050 and up it runs normal!
It has a nice BRIGHT flash and a big SNAP! I do have a video camera, but no way to get too to the computer (i am working on that now) ;)
ALSO... dont try to gap the plug with a metal gap-er while the inverter is on....LOL....OUCH!! ::)
Hi ramset,
I said it is an explosion and the result is expanding gases very fast but I said nothing about heat! The explosion is cold! No heat! Forget about your heating plans with this. This is cold kinetic energy. I don't know about water plasma flames but I do remember that you can run your hand through a pure HHO flame without getting burnt. Those were the days of Brown's gas...
Ossie
Currently I came across some designs for making water explode but without a hydrogen electrolysis process. By generating a plasma electrical wave you can ignite water at rates of 4500 Meters a Second. It creates an extremely strong shock wave through the air.from his video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9NvboKL43Q
Another aspect of this theory is that you can mist water into your cylinders, or a cold water vapor. Then generate a plasma spark ignition with a standard spark plug or a firestorm plug of some sort. This video is evidence that a plasma ignition in water will make a shock wave and in turn the ability to explode water inside your cylinder.
Hi Ossie, I came across this postulation from SirHoax: SHOCKWAVE, i.e. Kinetic energy not Heat energyfrom his video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9NvboKL43QGreat Video.
Do we know how much power we can get out of an engine using this method? Is it going to be enough to power a magneto? Clearly, some form of circuitry would be needed to feed the right kind of power into the spark plug, but imagine this engine running itself after a simple pull-start procedure.
It all depends on 1) How much power we could extract from a magneto and 2) whether the engine itself could produce enough power from the magneto.
In theory, the engine does not run itself, it consumes fuel, just like any other combustion engine. The cool thing is that it uses water and air and electricity.
Air is a complex gas mixture and water is a profoundly complex substance, far more than is commonly realized. It has the widest range of properties than any other known molecule. Plasma (very, very hot ions) and water and air. Hhmmmmmm. There's room for a lot of complex chemical/electrical activity to occur. The answers to your questions may easily be provided by empirical data from real experiments, but if left only to the theorists, there's enough fodder for debate over what is happening to keep the mind boggling for quite a long time ! LOL
Including me ! :D :D KneeDeep
I believe he was asking whether you could hook a generator to the water engine and then provide the electricity from that.That's my question exactly. If we think of water as how it is generally viewed at the moment, there is no 'energy' in it. However, we are feeding electrical energy to the process in order to trigger a (hopefully) much more powerful reaction. So we need a constant supply of energy in order to get energy out. I am just wondering if this powerful reaction can produce enough energy to power a generator that can produce the electricity necessary to keep the engine powered.
@send_to_nice: I don't know much about cars but I believe that's the alternators job.You may be right. However, I always thought the alternator was what charged the battery and powered the car's electrics (eg lights, radio, fans etc) while the engine is running. A magneto, however, powers the ignition system in simple engines such as those used in lawnmowers and chainsaws. Both these items share the characteristic of (generally speaking) being pull-start engines that require no battery. I have no idea what powers the spark on more modern engines.
The energy appears the be negative in this explosion.
I am not an EE, but I am an ASE certified auto technician. I notice that in your most recent schematics you are "triggering" the HV ignition coil on the positive feed to the ignition coil's primary winding. This may work on a bench setup, but in a car you will find that the positive feed to the HV ignition coil's primary winding is not triggered, only switched on/off by the ignition switch. The HV ignition coil is triggered by making/breaking the negative side of the coil's primary winding to ground in an automotive application. Older cars used a set of "points" to do this, and newer cars use solid-state electronics to control a heavy transistor to make/break the primary winding's ground.DOH!... your right, its been years since i have worked on a car with a coil like this. I started buying newer cars so i didnt have to work on them at all....LOL. I will make changes and re-post! Thank You!!
The only exception to this that I am aware of is some old British cars and a few older tractors.
So, where your schematics show that you are grounding the primary winding at the spark plug, in a car you will be grounding it either througn a set of points or through an ignition module.
-carbully
Has anyone thought of using a modern automotive coil. New coils pack a punch that can kill a person. The one Luc and others are shown using only produce about 40,000 volts and there are some new ones that produce 60,000 + volts. I also think the newer ones provide more amperage as well.
I will test a few tomorrow to see if there is any difference in the spark with having the resistor removed from the plug.
Also try it with the http://www.pulstarplug.com/
The Pulstar? Pulse Plug is not just another spark plug!
The Pulstar? pulse plug represents the first technological advancement in spark plug design in the past 100 years!
This new technology is a drop-in replacement for all spark plugs, including those iridium, high performance spark plugs. Pulstar is designed to more efficiently ignite the fuel in an engine's cylinders increasing fuel economy, horsepower and torque. Pulstar? pulse plugs look and fit like spark plugs, but incorporate an internal capacitor to deliver a spark 10 times more powerful than a spark plug with less cycle-to-cycle variation.
Pulse plugs are safe for use in all vehicles and improve combustion efficiency in all spark-ignited internal combustion engines, yielding better overall engine performance, with fuel consumption and associated green house gases reduced by as much as 10%.
IndianaBoys
Hi All,
Because it seems that people, who may or may not lack experience in electronics, are having trouble building and replicating the exploding water effect in previously described and shown devices, I have designed, built and tested what I believe to be a very simple to build device that most people can construct themselves at home that is powered only by a small square 9V battery that is commonly used in smoke alarms. I believe even kids can make this. Please see my latest video here:
http://www.youtube.com/m1a9r9s9
The purpose of this device is not to be able to power your car on water with it but simply to allow everyone to see for themselves and show others how water can directly explode on demand with little energy input. The device produces the required discharge in the spark plug about every 1 second and uses about 100-150ma from the 9V battery. At this current level the battery won't last too long but it is fine for demonstrations. For longer and continuous runs, just use a small 12V sealed lead acid battery of say 2 A/Hs.
Please see the circuit diagram and some pictures attached below.
All that is required to build this device is the following.
- A 12V, 150ma Security Xenon Strobe Light. Available from electronic and security stores. Color does not matter!
- An old car ignition coil. Available from automobile wreckers.
- A non resistor spark plug. Available from auto shops. Must not have a resistor in it!
- Five 1N5404 diodes or five large rectifying diodes. Part number doesn't really matter. Avaliable from electronic shops.
- A 9 volt battery. The same as used in smoke alarms. Available from anywhere.
- Some hook up wire.
- Basic tools including a soldering iron and some solder.
- Handheld water sprayer filled with water.
That's all folks!!
Please build this and show it to your friends, family, your teachers, professors, work mates anyone and everyone who can't believe that water can explode. Help your kids build this as their school science fair project. Just build it for fun!
On another note, my very good friend Ben has been doing some great research on this process as there is surprisingly quite a bit in the internet about it. He has found some references claiming that the energy released, when the water apparently explodes, is one thousand times the input energy required to cause the explosion. He has found some great info out about what may actually be happening but I will leave it to him to share if he gets time.
Enjoy!
Regards,
Ossie
Hi All,
Because it seems that people, who may or may not lack experience in electronics, are having trouble building and replicating the exploding water effect in previously described and shown devices, I have designed, built and tested what I believe to be a very simple to build device that most people can construct themselves at home that is powered only by a small square 9V battery that is commonly used in smoke alarms. I believe even kids can make this. Please see my latest video here:
http://www.youtube.com/m1a9r9s9
The purpose of this device is not to be able to power your car on water with it but simply to allow everyone to see for themselves and show others how water can directly explode on demand with little energy input. The device produces the required discharge in the spark plug about every 1 second and uses about 100-150ma from the 9V battery. At this current level the battery won't last too long but it is fine for demonstrations. For longer and continuous runs, just use a small 12V sealed lead acid battery of say 2 A/Hs.
Please see the circuit diagram and some pictures attached below.
All that is required to build this device is the following.
- A 12V, 150ma Security Xenon Strobe Light. Available from electronic and security stores. Color does not matter!
- An old car ignition coil. Available from automobile wreckers.
- A non resistor spark plug. Available from auto shops. Must not have a resistor in it!
- Five 1N5404 diodes or five large rectifying diodes. Part number doesn't really matter. Avaliable from electronic shops.
- A 9 volt battery. The same as used in smoke alarms. Available from anywhere.
- Some hook up wire.
- Basic tools including a soldering iron and some solder.
- Handheld water sprayer filled with water.
That's all folks!!
Please build this and show it to your friends, family, your teachers, professors, work mates anyone and everyone who can't believe that water can explode. Help your kids build this as their school science fair project. Just build it for fun!
On another note, my very good friend Ben has been doing some great research on this process as there is surprisingly quite a bit in the internet about it. He has found some references claiming that the energy released, when the water apparently explodes, is one thousand times the input energy required to cause the explosion. He has found some great info out about what may actually be happening but I will leave it to him to share if he gets time.
Enjoy!
Regards,
Ossie
ITS NOT DUBLING !!
it give normal DC Voltages out.
12volts AC wil give 15volts DC approx
Disassociated water ? Ill take 2 please http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxGeW4XXowc Chet
Hi All,
For those who like to know what is really going on and like to read technical papers, go to the files section in the below group:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WaterFuel1978/files/
and read:
Graneau experiments.pdf (You might have to join the group which I recommend)
If you slog through it, it is an eye opening experience as to what is going on here!! It pretty well tells it like it is and it is AMAZING where the power comes from! It is too large to attach.k4zep, here is the link to the Graneau experiments.pdf
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBFpSJS-sMYpa8Cek1PzGHH5WYgLGp5EbYiB0zypKT-db8__30ijrUD_Ai48FWCEJ0HNPnXiasFyEo1ipRExiqkMdXwFzKRoHls/Graneau%20experiments.pdf
Ah, thanks very much!
Now read it darn it!
Ben
Ah, thanks very much!
Now read it darn it!
Ben
Jesus please grab it out of there and put it on the millions free file hosting websites. I have wasted half and hour running in loops trying to register to that group.
It was then shown that the discharge of 3.6 kJ of stored capacitor
energy would create pressures in excess of 20.000 atm, in 7 ml of saltwater :
3.6 gm of water was ejected from the accelerator barrel with a velocity of the
order of 1000 m/s?, and then punched a 1/2 inch diameter hole through a 1/4 inch
thick aluminium plate (Graneau and Graneau 1996).
I'm having trouble getting to the spark plug resistor. The original video now just shows a broken spark plug ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reYRkG39XHw
Can any body give me a brief explanation or a new video?
Thanks, Larry
I'm having trouble getting to the spark plug resistor. The original video now just shows a broken spark plug ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reYRkG39XHw
Can any body give me a brief explanation or a new video?
Thanks, Larry
@LarryC
Take a look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J2AHNZUZD0
User mdbreedi show an excellent method to remove the resistor from a sparkplug. Hope this helps.
Juan
I reversed polarity on the ignition coil and now it works. Somebody explain that to me.
Also I blew up the diodes, could be because I have the bridge rectifier hooked up to a 110 plug instead of an inverter. I blew up my inverter the other day so I'll wait til tomorrow and get a new one and see what happens.
Hi All,
I thought it important to point something out regarding previous work related to this topic. There are many videos and demonstrations and documention of water being burnt and exploded using very high power and powerfull arc discharges. These are brute force devices and setups where in most cases more electrical energy is being put into the device than is being generated by the water combustion.
This is NOT what we are doing and have demonstrated in this thread. The devices and setups we are showing in this thread are using small amounts of electrical energy to cause the combustion of water which releases more energy than what was put in electrically. What is unique in our circuits here, when compared to previous examples on the internet, is that we are utilising the HV spark from an ignition coil as the precursor that allows enough ionisation of the air in the spark gap to conduct the minimum required energy pulse of 100-300 volts through the spark gap and the surrounding moisture near it. This results in the moisture/water exploding and thus releasing the energy contained in it. This process only requires minimal energy pulses in addition to the ignition spark and is very efficient.
We have developed these devices in an attempt to duplicate the work of s1r9a9m9 who has been able to demonstrate that he can run an engine solely on water instead of petrol by using a similar setup which uses the same process here as described. He infact claims to have run his adapted V8 automobile for 30,000 miles at a fuel efficiency rate of 300 miles per gallon of water. Most of us could not believe such claims but now after being able to reproduce the effect of being able to explode water with minimal energy input, it appears that what s1r9a9m9 claims is indeed possible.
So please do not find videos and demonstrations of people burning and exploding water with powerfull arc discharges and assume it is the same thing we are doing here because it is not. The process we are demonstrating here is very efficient to the point that it CAN be adapted to exisiting combustion engines to allow the engine to be run solely on water fed directly through the engine's exisiting fuel system. The adaption would be applied only to the engines existing ignition system.
Regards,
Ossie
why did it blow up on you???
i know why
becuse it the RE is returing to a place to where it can not escape to do use full work... and it blows shit up ;D
put a lead out diode to where it is returning put a cap after it to convert it to hot electricty or leave the cap out and use it the way it is ...
ist
Hi chrisC, thanks for reading the topic and posting your positive comment.
Well said Ossie! I read with great interest what Luc had stumbled upon and good people like yourself has been able to replicate and hopefully get us all to the point where the principles are well understood and easy to adapt to any existing gasoline engine. That would be a holy grail for ridding ourselves of the Opec oil greed!
Keep it up.
cheers
chrisC
Hi robbie47, thanks for looking and adding your input. You are very correct about the humidity level. The setup of the video was done in a garage and I had the garage door was open, outside was just starting to rain which became a major rain storm just after the video was done, there was a lightning hit less than a 100 feet away :o, the timing of it all felt so perfect, like a confirmation from Mother Nature. So at the time I was doing the video I did not realize that all that moisture in the air was also helping the spark since you can see I did not need to add water at every spark to make it work.
Luc
I have pretty much only read the 1st and last page still.This is something I've been thinking, but being very much a new kid on the block here I haven't said much about it. Something I've been wondering is, at what point does an idea raised through a thread on here need to become a 'project'? As I said, I'm a newcomer to this site so am not sure whether threads ike this come and go all the time. Certainly to me it feels as though there is a huge amount of anticipation around this idea and how feasible it is. Regulars here are pretty clued up and I've certainly noticed a lot of threads where people pick up on fake ideas or inefficient ones very soon. This thread doesn't seem to have aroused such suspicion, so from that can we assume that this is the real deal? I don't know the answer to that, but I'm hoping some of the regulars do.
This thread seems a tad unfocused, there are 2 (or maybe 3) important discoveries Luc seems to have made here.
Probably.Great idae,
But if you touch the cap with wet fingers,
isn't that sort of natural selection at work? ;) ;D
jk
Anyway:
Go Luc! Go Ossie! W00T! :D ;D
but seriously, this is starting to get really exciting.
I'm actually considering putting my cell experiments on hold for this...
... and digging up that old hydrogen kit motor I had so I can try
it with a running motor... now where did I put that thing?
May I suggest compiling a sort of documentation file or folder in which
Luc and Ossie gather the most usefull and clear posts, explanations,
and circuit drawings, in order to facilitate bringing people up to speed?
The thread is growing so fast that peope only jumping in now first have to
spend 2 days reading the earlier posts before they get to this point.
I posted some stuff myself that turned out to be complete crap just ten
minutes later because I had missed a piece of the developments in the thread.
Apologies for polluting your nice thread Luc. ;)
Oh, and if s1r9a9m9 has his V8 conversion plans online somewhere
that might be interesting :)
send2, I agree.@aether22, @gotoluc
While I am personally interested in how this circuit may be generating the kind of conditions for a 'radiant effect', and that is a very important direction, the other question is if he has anything other that a fun pop.
You need quite a bit of power to push down a piston, hundreds of pounds of pressure is developed to push down a piston.
In fact if anyone tells you that implosion can power an engine you know they are either wrong or are not meaning the creation of a partial vacuum as atmospheric pressure is only 16PSI and that's no where near enough to run an engine. (which is not to say that a non-atmospheric implosive force may not be possible)
So anyone who has the effect needs to see if it can create some real pressure, and compare it to gas explosion.
And if expensive inverters are not needed then can Luc please put a cheaper plan in the first post of the thread, I have lots of gear but no inverters.
@All
I just could not walk away without trying something else. I was interested in the usage of the series Xenon and wondered what a Xenon plasma would do and not use the pulse flashing.
Now I admit I have changed things a little, but if you want a shock wave here is how to get it. In a cylinder with a movable piston, fill the cylinder 1/2 full of water with the piston just under the surface, call it a down stroke position. With two SS wires I electrolyze some of the water, the gas stays in the water with much going against the piston. Fire your spark and all hell breaks free. Not only does the gas explode but it appears to cause a secondary reaction that splits off additional that is consumed.
Granted this does not sound good for running a conventional engine, but hey, new engine a water engine. You do not even need oil in the crankcase as water is a fine lube. Now for the best part, the plasma and or the flash can be used to preheat the water and it reacts faster and with more force.
So gentleman maybe its time to go to the lathe and milling machine, this could work, assuming you have a water supply. Oh and I was doing this on 20V@50ma, not bad.
The jury of course is still out on if this is in any way connected to some other form of trigger energy, heck if we can split water and get it to chain react in some way, why not.
DrStiffler@resonanceman
Just trying to ake sure that I understand what you are saying
Your previous post about connecting a ground to me seemed to be about another form of energy being created in another part of the circuit .
Now it looks like you are saying that it there is OU here it is in the spark .
Is it possible that the guys that wrote the law of thermodynamics forgot to measure the energy created by a spark in water ?
Or did they just assume that the spark would follow their law ?
What is your opinion on this ......Is the spark following the law ?
gary
Maybe some heat from burnt fuel would help.
Either way they can work and the question in this case is only if there is more energy we are getting out than we are intentionally putting in.
Clearly there needs to be a simple circuit that anyone cab build without need for an inverter, and a circuit fit for putting into an auto.
One thought I have is that it is a good idea to try this first in an engine with gas and then slowly add water to the mix increasing the mix until it is all or mostly all water. (whatever works)
Maybe some heat from burnt fuel would help.
...
What is not up for debate even by the most skeptical is that it is possible for a device to output energy while putting either no or less energy into it in any deliberate form.
So is this more energy out that in?
...
@All
I just could not walk away without trying something else. I was interested in the usage of the series Xenon and wondered what a Xenon plasma would do and not use the pulse flashing.
Now I admit I have changed things a little, but if you want a shock wave here is how to get it. In a cylinder with a movable piston, fill the cylinder 1/2 full of water with the piston just under the surface, call it a down stroke position. With two SS wires I electrolyze some of the water, the gas stays in the water with much going against the piston. Fire your spark and all hell breaks free. Not only does the gas explode but it appears to cause a secondary reaction that splits off additional that is consumed.
Granted this does not sound good for running a conventional engine, but hey, new engine a water engine. You do not even need oil in the crankcase as water is a fine lube. Now for the best part, the plasma and or the flash can be used to preheat the water and it reacts faster and with more force.
So gentleman maybe its time to go to the lathe and milling machine, this could work, assuming you have a water supply. Oh and I was doing this on 20V@50ma, not bad.
The jury of course is still out on if this is in any way connected to some other form of trigger energy, heck if we can split water and get it to chain react in some way, why not.
Well, I strongly challenge that!
Hi Dr. Stiffler, that sounds amazing. Looking forward to a video ;D
At everyone, today is Canada day and I worked all day on the circuit and found something new. The flash of the spark is so bright that I cannot look at it anymore. You cannot see this too much in the video but look at the wood board the spark plug is on, it turns blue. Also look at the last frames and you will see the flame come out of the plug over one inch.
Please look at the new video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thV6QgXHz7A
S1R has told me that when I have the kind of spark he has I would need sun glasses to look at it. I need to do more tests before I can say if this is the real thing.
Please stay tuned for updates.
Luc
Hi Luc,
Yes, SR1 said the same thing to me too. I can tell you that on the device I showed using a 20Hz sig gen with, if I used a 100uf capacitor instead of a 10uf capacitor, the discharges on the spark plug were so large, bright and continuous that they effectively blew the water spray away from the plasma before it could make contact and no explosions were observed. This makes sense. This is why such higher power tests are no good out in the open. But in the confines of a pressurised cylinder, by forcing a larger amount of water and moisture into the plasma with pressure, I expect we should get a much larger explosive result. And if there is any chain reactive effect in the explosion when pressurised, this should cause a great deal, if not all of the moisture in the cylinder to explode and we should see an exponential increase in output power. A number of us are now working on this....
Regards,
Ossie
Hi Ossie, thanks for your reply. I must tell you that I have a very different circuit to do this now. I am using only one 1uf capacitor to do this at around 110 volts input and no inverter. I have a variac going though a 1 to 1 Toroid which I use as an isolation transformer which goes to the FWBR to feed the new circuit.
So now I know for sure that it is not something special in the inverter that will give the effect.
Can you test your setup with only 1uf at 110 volts and see if you get flashes that are too bright to look at and you can spray as much water as you want and it keeps working?
Let me know please.
Tomorrow I'll see if I can measure the current draw.
Luc
Hi Luc,
If you are using 110V from the wall and your 1:1 toroid transformer is big enough, all you are seeing is a standard arc discharge as that in an arc welder. The ignition spark will simply be providing the ionisation for the arc to start. Just as in arc welders that have a HF spark start so that you don't need to touch the electrode and risk sticking to get the arc going. So you will find that your input energy will be significant. That is not to say that this won't be effective to test on an engine as I think it might be a good and simple test rig to prove that you can fire an engine with water in the cylinder. But I don't think it would be an efficient way to get an engine running on water in a stand alone setup. For this we need to get the electrical energy input down.
I have also gotten such an bright arc effect like an arc welder by using my simple security strobe setup/circuit and connecting 5 or 6 12V lead acid batteries in series with a large HV diode (diodes) across the spark plug. Yes the spark plug will glow red and perish and it will use heaps of input energy and be nothing more than a brute force device.
Regards,
Ossie
The Graneau report indicates that it's the "Ampere force or Ampere Tension" that causes the explosion. Is that just a way of saying that it's Current/Amps that does it? If so - is a high voltage brute force counterproductive?
A 12V lead acid battery can deliver massive amps with a dead short - way more than an inverter.
Has anybody tried connecting the battery directly to the spark plug via diodes? Nothing could possibly flow until there was a plasma spark bridging the gap?
If the higher volts aren't actually required, it would simply be wasting Watts - if Amps are all that matter (once the plasma bridge is formed).
Hi callanan and Luc,
First of all congratulation and thank you for your so much important discovery.
Can you please callanan give us a description of how the cricuit operates (the one with the sin generator).. why is the use of the xenon light. Is it acting like a switch ? I am having trouble imagining how is works.
Thank you
@All
I just could not walk away without trying something else. I was interested in the usage of the series Xenon and wondered what a Xenon plasma would do and not use the pulse flashing.
Now I admit I have changed things a little, but if you want a shock wave here is how to get it. In a cylinder with a movable piston, fill the cylinder 1/2 full of water with the piston just under the surface, call it a down stroke position. With two SS wires I electrolyze some of the water, the gas stays in the water with much going against the piston. Fire your spark and all hell breaks free. Not only does the gas explode but it appears to cause a secondary reaction that splits off additional that is consumed.
Granted this does not sound good for running a conventional engine, but hey, new engine a water engine. You do not even need oil in the crankcase as water is a fine lube. Now for the best part, the plasma and or the flash can be used to preheat the water and it reacts faster and with more force.
So gentleman maybe its time to go to the lathe and milling machine, this could work, assuming you have a water supply. Oh and I was doing this on 20V@50ma, not bad.
The jury of course is still out on if this is in any way connected to some other form of trigger energy, heck if we can split water and get it to chain react in some way, why not.
Is it agreed that this is a lower temperature effect, being the liberating of latent heat between the liquid & vapour phases of water?
@gotoluc
You MUST get Moderator authority so you can delete the 'crapsters' else this will just be another multi-page joke that goes no-where.
Hi Luc,
If you are using 110V from the wall and your 1:1 toroid transformer is big enough, all you are seeing is a standard arc discharge as that in an arc welder. The ignition spark will simply be providing the ionisation for the arc to start. Just as in arc welders that have a HF spark start so that you don't need to touch the electrode and risk sticking to get the arc going. So you will find that your input energy will be significant. That is not to say that this won't be effective to test on an engine as I think it might be a good and simple test rig to prove that you can fire an engine with water in the cylinder. But I don't think it would be an efficient way to get an engine running on water in a stand alone setup. For this we need to get the electrical energy input down.
I have also gotten such an bright arc effect like an arc welder by using my simple security strobe setup/circuit and connecting 5 or 6 12V lead acid batteries in series with a large HV diode (diodes) across the spark plug. Yes the spark plug will glow red and perish and it will use heaps of input energy and be nothing more than a brute force device.
Regards,
Ossie
The other method that comes to mind is to hit the water two or more times in quick succession, one to create the fog and the other to ignite it.
........................
I have been told that if a magnet holds a weight for an extended time no work is done. Because there is no movement and no energy input .
If an electro magnet is used to hold the same weight work IS done.
.........................
@ hartiberlin
Impressive picture....but he's using a "propellent" gas.... and not water.
see what you think: http://www.myelectricengine.com/
@ hartiberlin
Impressive picture....but he's using a "propellent" gas.... and not water.
see what you think: http://www.myelectricengine.com/
@all, I found this link to a patent for a "Plasma Arc Ignition System" designed in 1993. It describes the concept of a combined high voltage, high current system. Although this was designed for gasoline there are some parallels to the work being done here. The diagrams even suggest some spark plug designs that may work best with a plasma arc. I wonder if it's inventor ever thought to try the system with water?
Click on 'Documents' to view the 45 page pdf
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=CA1992000510&DISPLAY=DOCS
RD
From: "fredrikh99" <fredrikhansson@telia.com>Add sender to Contacts To: WaterFuel1978@yahoogroups.comAlright, I just made a short video showing my latest installement. I
ran it on 200 Volt and it takes 7 amps on idle. When run it goes down
to 5-6 amps.
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=j0jXxPTvuGE
/Fredrik
I think there are some big questions and big assumptions here. Have we have ruled out the dissassociation of water into H & O? Is it agreed that this is a lower temperature effect, being the liberating of latent heat between the liquid & vapour phases of water?
We are assuming this behaves remotely like conventional petrol or gas combusion engines. Will a higher compression ratio help or hinder?
I'm guessing this effect is the working principle of lightening & thunder. Lightening is known to be plasma discharge. AFAIK, lightening doesn't need compressed air to work. In weather terms, aren't storms the result of a low pressure region? Maybe very low compression engines will be better than high compression?
greendoor, this may be the case here. If ,and only if, s1r9a9m9 is telling us the truth about his 1978 El-Camino running on just water(he did say that the engine was stock issue, unchanged) then we can deduce that this could be true since in 1978 GM had low compression engines in their vehicles as a result of EPA mandates dating to 1971 when the compression ratios were lowered significantly to comply with stricter emission controls. Compressiom ratios in a typical V/8 before 1971 were around 10 to 1. In 1971 onward to 1978, compression ratios went down to 8.2 to 1. These were considered low compression engines. My parents owned a 1975 Oldsmobile Toronado and I remember distinctly my father complaining of less power....you see the previous car was a 1970 Olds 98 with 10 to 1 compression ratio and 365 horse power 500 + pounds of torque! Just some facts to put this in perspective.
Livingwaters08
Less wasted power? Storm clouds tend to be very tall, dense clouds. I've tended to assume that lightening happens when there is sufficient water "shorting out" the potential difference in the atmosphere.
Is liquid water better than a mist?
A small percentage of soluble oil might be beneficial mainly to stop rusting being a show stopper. In time, I expect new engine designs will optimise this process. Maybe if this is fairly low temp, we could use nylon piston rings or other plastic parts.
Maybe a steam engine type design is the way forward ...
Only experiments will find this out.
@gotoluc
You MUST get Moderator authority so you can delete the 'crapsters' else this will just be another multi-page joke that goes no-where.
Dr Stiffler,@livingwaters08
JUST WHO ARE THE CRAPSTERS?? I take offense at this comment since we are attempting to get this out to the common people, all people of the world. Please do not be so insulting as to refer to some who may not know as much as others, but willing, and trying to learn,as "CRAPSTERS".
Very Incorrect of you Dr Stiffler! Very Inappropriate!
Livingwaters08
I just recieved this quoted email. Here is the link to that video again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0jXxPTvuGE
I just mix high voltage AC from a car ignition coil with a lower pulsed DC voltage at 220 volt. I have not tried with any water or steam yet but I'm planning to.
@livingwaters08
If the shoe fits wear it. Gee wonder why you are so taken back.
You answered what a 'crapster' post is and my answer to you waste of bandwidth also meets the definition.
Dr. Stiffler,
YOU ARE INCORRIGIBLE, AND VERY INCORRECT!!
Are you for this water as fuel discovery to be shared by everyone? Just curious.
I was taken aback by your blatant lack of respect for a lot of us here....Clear enough?
Livingwaters08
Hi All,
Because it seems that people, who may or may not lack experience in electronics, are having trouble building and replicating the exploding water effect in previously described and shown devices, I have designed, built and tested what I believe to be a very simple to build device that most people can construct themselves at home that is powered only by a small square 9V battery that is commonly used in smoke alarms. I believe even kids can make this. Please see my latest video here:
http://www.youtube.com/m1a9r9s9
The purpose of this device is not to be able to power your car on water with it but simply to allow everyone to see for themselves and show others how water can directly explode on demand with little energy input. The device produces the required discharge in the spark plug about every 1 second and uses about 100-150ma from the 9V battery. At this current level the battery won't last too long but it is fine for demonstrations. For longer and continuous runs, just use a small 12V sealed lead acid battery of say 2 A/Hs.
Please see the circuit diagram and some pictures attached below.
All that is required to build this device is the following.
- A 12V, 150ma Security Xenon Strobe Light. Available from electronic and security stores. Color does not matter!
- An old car ignition coil. Available from automobile wreckers.
- A non resistor spark plug. Available from auto shops. Must not have a resistor in it!
- Five 1N5404 diodes or five large rectifying diodes. Part number doesn't really matter. Avaliable from electronic shops.
- A 9 volt battery. The same as used in smoke alarms. Available from anywhere.
- Some hook up wire.
- Basic tools including a soldering iron and some solder.
- Handheld water sprayer filled with water.
That's all folks!!
Please build this and show it to your friends, family, your teachers, professors, work mates anyone and everyone who can't believe that water can explode. Help your kids build this as their school science fair project. Just build it for fun!
On another note, my very good friend Ben has been doing some great research on this process as there is surprisingly quite a bit in the internet about it. He has found some references claiming that the energy released, when the water apparently explodes, is one thousand times the input energy required to cause the explosion. He has found some great info out about what may actually be happening but I will leave it to him to share if he gets time.
Enjoy!
Regards,
Ossie
KISS (Keep It Simple Please)That spells "KISP" ...
@all, I was able to put together an Ossie C replication tonight using a strobe light. I recorded it with my Sony DSC-717. The circuit works great however the video turned out strange in that half or more of the very bright discharges are missing from the video, like they never happened ???. The audio track is fine. Take a look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktbaJpCdNx0
Props to Ossie for a very effective & simple demo circuit. BTW the plug was cool to the touch after all that sparking and noise :) Also noted that if the center wire was pulled from the coil an arc will come right out of the center of the coil and discharge to the coil side terminal, that's a lot of energy!
RD
http://www.myelectricengine.com/projects/mpdthruster/ignition/ignition.html
Hi Luc,
Thanks for the additional info, went to the new site and a little confusing!
Anyway, wanted to report on my results using a variac to a FWB thru a lawn tractor spark plug.
I did have a problem with getting the spark plug resistor out of a tractor lawn mower plug, but after more heat and more pressure the spark plug cap did open. The only problem was that the spring and the resistor must have shot out so fast that I didn't find it. Added copper wire to the empty space and got no resistance.
Then ran a spark without water spray, good spark and no problem. Then ran with mister and what a orange firecracker! But it blew my 10 A fuse on the variac. Will use isolation transformer as you posted next time. Only had 4-1N5404 in series, will get more.
Regards, Larry
@Gary and all,
The DC and HV-AC are not directly connected. He just used the HV for the bridge (arcing) before pulsing the DC. Just like Luc circuit (if I may say so) or any other arc welding circuit.
Regards,
p/s: I think there are similarity if not direct understanding of how the TPU's work.
I am not good with circuits but I find that s1r has used the coils coil wire for the ground to charge what ever he has in the container. When the coil fires, it breaks the grounds connection.
What can be charged by connecting a negative and positive and then discharged to the closest ground just by breaking the connection?
What ever can do that, must be what he is using.
But it blew my 10 A fuse on the variac. Will use isolation transformer as you posted next time. Only had 4-1N5404 in series, will get more.
Regards, Larry
Nightlife
That sounds like the " normal " way to trigger an ignition coil
gary
Gary, you are exactly right. Now what kind of ignition coil operates off 110?
The best thing I can think of is a oil furnace igniter coil.
Are you sure it is 110 V ?
As far as I know an oil furnace coil is just a transformer .......it is very similar to a neon sign transformer .
I was thinking what would be the simplest engine to try this in?, could a model steam engine be used or adapted?
Personally I'd be thinking along the lines of either lawnmower/chainsaw engines or even model aircraft engines. The problem with using a steam engine is that although they are powered by pressure, they don't work with a spark plug so you'd have to mod it to fit one.Model Aircraft engines use a glowplug, http://www.rc-airplane-world.com/model-airplane-engines.html so not sure how suitable they would be, maybe something like a small weedwacker/strimmer engine would do.
Personally I'd be thinking along the lines of either lawnmower/chainsaw engines or even model aircraft engines. The problem with using a steam engine is that although they are powered by pressure, they don't work with a spark plug so you'd have to mod it to fit one.
Hi retrod,
Thanks for replicating the circuit and confirming the result. But most of all, thanks for also letting us know how a video does not do justice in conveying just how much of an explosion it is when compared to the dry spark discharge when no water is present. It seems that the explosion is so fast that most digital video cameras do not capture much of it. So I just want people to know that so far, what they see in the videos provided is only a small extent of the real explosiveness that you will see on the bench in front of you, if you build it yourself.
Regards,
Ossie
Forget the model aircraft engine, they are not suited at all.
However to get as many decent tests on ICE's then a list of suitable cheap motor types would be a good idea. (assuming there is no way to 'fix' that issue?)Yes, good point on the lube. That, plus the fact that second hand engines are not at all that expensive, plus the fact that "normal" car engines are more
Apparently most/all 2 stroke engines are a poor choice because the fuel is the lube, so then what small engines are suited and what are the prices and practicality?
It strikes me that engines that have a starter motor should be favored strongly, I am sure everyone has had a pain of a time trying to start a lawn mower or maybe outboard engine and that is with petrol.Yeah, seems like a good idea, unless of course you need the arm exercise. ;)
Not sure but what about scooters or motorbikes?Well I'm sure. I wouldn't go for those.
Generators also sounds very practical (if the motor suits?) since all the energy can if need be in a marginal system go into recharging the battery. (even if it just powers it's self with just water input most would consider that good enough to prove the principle)Exactly. :)
So before too long we need to get decent ICE info on here but first we need a circuit diagram that does not use an inverter, Luc has done it but has not yet made a diagram of this. (not that it sound too hard)Yeah, I think you're right there. But we should watch out we don't get a Steorn-effect as in that the whole world suddenly jumps to this thread and
I must say, if anyone on here can get an ICE running on this and be open and not all mysterious this issue will get very big very fast, no kidding.
Hi Luc & @
so if we run the exhaust into the intake as a closed loop on an engine.Then water could ignite at spark plug ,will it reform to water ready to burn again?
Hope so ;)
pc
@Gary and all,Hi xilusma, very good observations. I is interesting you are talking of an arc welder because yesterday I was working on some renovation work at my uncles new home and was explaining to him this circuit since he is a real EE and how it is really only a short circuit and that is the first thing he said (this is the principal of a ark welder)
The DC and HV-AC are not directly connected. He just used the HV for the bridge (arcing) before pulsing the DC. Just like Luc circuit (if I may say so) or any other arc welding circuit.
Regards,
p/s: I think there are similarity if not direct understanding of how the TPU's work.
Hi Luc & @Hi powercat, yes it should reform to water. If I remember correctly S1R exhaust was going to a stainless Steel tank where the water would condensate and start the loop again.
so if we run the exhaust into the intake as a closed loop on an engine.Then water could ignite at spark plug ,will it reform to water ready to burn again?
Hope so ;)
pc
Actually, I am thinking of the salamander more so then the furnace. I use salamanders in the winter and I have had to take them apart and change the plug. I just happen to have one I can take apart and see what it uses to create the spark. I assumed a coil due to the coil wire. Then again, my assumptions have been way off before and they may be once again.
Luc.
Referring to Page 1 and your circuit diagram. (thanks) and S1R's comments. Where should the 2nd booster coil be placed and have you tried it?
Rgds.
@Luc: All hail the Moderator! ;) ;D
but seriously, what is the direction you'd like this to go, Luc?
Do you want to move toward using this very cool effect in an actual engine,
like s1r9a9m9 (claims he) has done?
Or are you more interested in studying the effect itself?
Sort of like that great description Ossie gave of the test circuit.
So, what does everyone think? :D
@Nightlife and Starcruiser and All
There is an engine that seems most suited for experimental purposes. It is the 4 banger in the mid 80's Nissan Hardbody line of pickups. It has a carb and dual ignition like an aircraft engine with two spark plugs per cylinder. One plug fires and soon after the other plug fires. "energize and then fire". It has two ignition coils to do the task. It has a distributor with two coil inputs and 8 out. Does not have the complicated computer controls that fuel injection engines have.
All kinds of flexibility are possible with this engine:
Easy to advance or retard timing, mess with the carb, mess with the two spark plugs, or make a special water injector and use one on the spark plug holes.
I think the Nissan Maxima around this time had a passenger car version. It had a timing belt, the pickup used a chain. Get the truck, more room around the engine.
Tishatang
so if someone has or can give a clear step-by-step overview of how
to alter the engine and probably most importantly the circuitry involved and
how to hook that to conventional controls, that would certainly help a lot.
I hav been flying R/C aircraft 52 years and I beg ta differ............In fact I am modifying an old FOX 78 to run using this process................Will take time, I'm a slow builder/modifier.
Ben
KoenOh? Well I understand that is the goal, but most of what I've seen
That is exactly what we are working on here .
gary
ALL dont look into the light #11 shield at least or turn and watch the shadow you are welding here Chet
Nightlife
Are you sure it is 110 V ?
As far as I know an oil furnice coil is just a transformer .......it is very similar to a neon sign transformer .
Nightlife, resonanceman, and group,
Let's remember s1's description of the 3 coil setup in his recent post on Waterfuel1978. He describes the coil in great detail.
Here's his post:
Re: New video 2
There are three windings on the coil, one main winding, one on each
side with deferent number of windings in each, the two windings on
each side are wound through the main winding , as 1 being a winding
and 2 being a winding and 0 being the main winding, it will look
like this 1-0-1_2-0-2. the windings are not touching each other but
they are wound through the main (0) winding, this replaces the double
coil set in the relay system. I will post the number of turns on each
winding as soon as I have all the info put together. None of the
windings have the same number of turns so the harmonics deffer when
current passes through them. This also is helping to block the 110v
from the 12v. This coil does not replace the HV coil on the vehicle.
S1R.
From this description....Is this a Tesla Coil? Hope this helps to perfect the circuit.
Livigwaters08
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I just went back and watched the videos again
I didn't try to trace the wires
I did notice something I missed before
The first time I watched video1 I noticed that the first thing you see is a close up of the place to connect the place to connect the fuel line ......... I had thought that he was connecting the hose there .
In the 2nd video he removes the float bowl .......and holds it in front of the camera for a second .
I didn't realise before that he was just running water into the intake .
He is clearly " flooding " the engine
I am pretty sure that you won't get ANY gas engine to run that steady by doing that that . IF you can get it to run that way at all .
The gas air mixture has to be fairly close .......... with this process I think all you really need enough water .
I am thinking that the times in video 1 where he rotated the engine by had was to clear partial hydro lock
Now I am thinking that the way to control the engine power is to vary the low voltage .
gary
Hi ramset,Ossie, I was looking over your latest schematic, the one with the inverter. The top half looks to be the same in function to a standard ignition, let's say for a single cylinder engine with a battery ignition system (like an old garden tractor). The bottom half has the inverter and the few diodes, caps and a coil that might be what's inside s1's 'can' we saw in the video's. What do you think?
Good advise. We certainly have a continuous arc that is very bright like an arc welder. But instead of producing such a bright arc with 1000-2000 watts input as in an arc welder. I am now doing it with just 60 watts input... Such is the difference when there no or very little heat output, unlike an arc welder...
Regards,
Ossie
Oh? Well I understand that is the goal, but most of what I've seen
posted here recently has zero to do with an engine and everything
to do with a circuit that produces a plasma which can ignite water aerosol...
And so I got the impression that what was happening here did not
really include the engine conversion part of the plan yet...
... but perhaps I overlooked something... ;)
Oh, and on a sidenote I don't think anyone nowadays has sunglasses
without UV filter of some sort... But you welding goggles suggestion
may be a good one. :)
Hi Ossie,
I'm a non electronics person who has been keeping an eye on the watercar1978 forum for 2 years now, and of late this forum,and I am gathering parts to build the 9v batt circuit supplied earlier - once this is done and the circuit understood (by myself!) then the next stage would be to convert that circuit to this latest one that you have just posted.
As the Siggen is just being used to replicate the high speed firing of the ICE, is it a simple matter to replace that whole aspect of the circuitry with the pos & neg from the strobe being wired directly to the pos & neg of the coil and then the inverter circuit tied in to the neg of the coil and the coil output just as it is in the latest diagram?
I just want to try and prove my replication in stages and attempt to understand some electronic basics while I go.
Many thanks - Stu (from Northern Ireland)
Ossie, I was looking over your latest schematic, the one with the inverter. The top half looks to be the same in function to a standard ignition, let's say for a single cylinder engine with a battery ignition system (like an old garden tractor). The bottom half has the inverter and the few diodes, caps and a coil that might be what's inside s1's 'can' we saw in the video's. What do you think?
RD
UPDATE 2:
OK...i got it to work!! ;D ;D ;D
In my effort to make it as if the plug was in the block, i put a a wire from the block to the the body of the plug (just as if it was in the block), that was sitting on the table. With the wire connected it does nothing....but with out it...STAND BACK!!!! lol GREAT plasma flame and sounds. But that does not help the problem that the plug still needs to be in the block.
I used the voltage doubler with a 330uf 400v cap through diodes to the top of the plug. I still had the ammeter hooked up, the plasma hit every time the engine revolved and the meter NEVER MOVED!!!!! It would seem to be VERY little or no draw!!
I feel much better now...BUT my 73" Mitsu TV died today :'( :'( :'(
I just remembered, S1R said something in a post a long time ago about using a seperate battery for the inverter. Maybe this is my problem, I need to isolate it. When I blew both of those inverters it was like it was feeding the 110 back into the inverter on the 12volt side. I have no trouble at all with using mains power and a rectifier, well not until today. I hooked up the primary side of the IC to a distributor I had laying around and was gonna use that to pulse it but when I hooked up the 110 to the circuit all hell broke loose. It blew up my rectifier and kicked the breaker. The distributor was laying on a metal table but the rest of the circuit was insulated. I guess it fed back thru the drill press that was on the same table somehow. This is why I'd like to know exactly how this circuit works, I mean the flow path of the electricity.
Blew up another inverter! Soon as I turned it on. Also tried a different ignition coil and still have to reverse the polarity on it to get a HV arc. I'm lost. It doesn't help that I don't understand exactly how the circuit works or that I don't really understand electronics that much so until somebody comes up with a fool proof circuit I give up!
Blew up another inverter! Soon as I turned it on. Also tried a different ignition coil and still have to reverse the polarity on it to get a HV arc. I'm lost. It doesn't help that I don't understand exactly how the circuit works or that I don't really understand electronics that much so until somebody comes up with a fool proof circuit I give up!
Hey xbox,condolences on your tv.I was looking at your circuit diagram,what would happen if your coil wasnt grounded at the base of the plug?Could that possibly make any difference at all?Thanx wopper for your kind thoughts....LOL Just one more thin i have to fix
Great job Gotoluc and Ossie,
Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l54wlbi0Szk
Not sure if you agree with the explanation, but the electroradiant event you have is fragmenting the heaviside flow away from the conductive wire.
Take care,
Aaron
@All
One problem in converting small ICE's, is that they use a magneto system. There is a permanent magnet embedded in the flywheel. This allows only a small change in timing for most of these engines. There is no distributor to twist to get a 25 degree retard of timing. To get proper timing with these engines you could collect the magneto discharge into a high voltage cap and discharge the cap with an optical sensor or something you can adjust on the output shaft. Or, since you have to have an external timing sensor, you may as well use a conventional ignition coil and forget the magneto and dangerous to have charged HV cap.
I am not a motorcycle guy, But I seem to remember my son's old Honda had coils and a distributor. If so, then maybe motorcycle engines solve the timing problem?
Tishatang
With the growth of the offshore industry it has become essential to be able to make welds under water to a standard that satisfies certain nationally and internationally recognised welding codes. Attempts have been made to weld underwater without taking any steps to protect the welding arc from water. These have been unsuccessful, partly because water entering the arc becomes dissociated and the hydrogen thus formed is dissolved in the weld pool. The rapid quenching effect of the water on the weldments creates hard martensitic structures in the heat affected zone (HAZ) which are susceptible to hydrogen induced cracking, owing to hydrogen diffusion into the heat affected zone, particularly in joints subject to restraint.
Blew up another inverter! Soon as I turned it on. Also tried a different ignition coil and still have to reverse the polarity on it to get a HV arc. I'm lost. It doesn't help that I don't understand exactly how the circuit works or that I don't really understand electronics that much so until somebody comes up with a fool proof circuit I give up!
WATCH WORKING s1r9a9m9 REPLICATION
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnUv6M0N6z4
details
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3977.new.html
Hi stu,
It is a good idea to build the simple strobe device and see and understand how it work. With the other circuit, the sig gen is simply to replicate an ICE firing the ignition coil. But if you are considering trying the strobe circuit on an ICE, it will not serve your purpose as it is only capable of charging it's capacitor up about once every second. It is only being powered by a 9V battery after all. The strobe device is simply a demonstration device to shown how easy it is to explode water with little input power.
Regards,
Ossie
WATCH WORKING s1r9a9m9 REPLICATION
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnUv6M0N6z4
details
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3977.new.html
make sure your inverter's input and output is isolated fully from the ignition coil circuit. There must not be any common ground connections.
@All
One problem in converting small ICE's, is that they use a magneto system. There is a permanent magnet embedded in the flywheel. This allows only a small change in timing for most of these engines. There is no distributor to twist to get a 25 degree retard of timing. To get proper timing with these engines you could collect the magneto discharge into a high voltage cap and discharge the cap with an optical sensor or something you can adjust on the output shaft. Or, since you have to have an external timing sensor, you may as well use a conventional ignition coil and forget the magneto and dangerous to have charged HV cap.
I am not a motorcycle guy, But I seem to remember my son's old Honda had coils and a distributor. If so, then maybe motorcycle engines solve the timing problem?
Tishatang
Hi bumfuzzled and all,
I understand that many may be eager to attempt to start building these circuits to test them but I must stress that unless you understand how they operate, as well as have some experience in building and testing electronic circuits, it is likely to be an expensive and possibly also dangerous excercise for you. So please understand what you are building and how it works before you proceed as there are many traps for the inexperienced.
One these traps that is most likely the cause of people blowing up their all solid state inverters is that the HV pulse from an ignition coil can be either positive or negative. In all of my circuits, the ignition coil pulse is always positive. But in practise, it can be either.
To accommodate this you will need to make sure your inverter's input and output is isolated fully from the ignition coil circuit. There must not be any common ground connections. You must then test the polarity of you ignition coil's output pulse by using a long string of LV diodes or some HV microwave oven diodes, preferable 3 or four in series, to prove if the HV pulse coming out of your ignition coil is negative or positive. Once you have proved this, then when you connect the output of the diode string from you inverter circuit, you will connect it to the spark plug positive if your ignition coil pulse is positive or to the spark plug ground, if your ignition coil pulse is negative.
Regards,
Ossie
Hi bumfuzzled, which circuit are you using?
At everyone, I have posted this before but I will say it again since some don't read all my posts. Look at the first page of this topic again. I have updated it and my circuit. You need to re-read page one since there are many text changes which can help you.
Luc
All you have to do is remove the key from the flywheel then you can set the timing wherever you want. Just be sure to tighten the flywheel back down real good. Yes there's some guess work but you can get it close enough. This is what the go kart racers do to them.
I have an old Honda 550 4 cylinder sitting in the shed that would be easy as far as getting the timing right but 4 cylinders would be much harder to get running than one cylinder so I'll stick with the little B&S for now.
Thanks Ossie, but what I was thinking of was purely about proving the new circuit on the bench (my build quality) - with this in mind is it okay to drive it with the srobe, in the way I had mentioned, before considering attaching it to an ICE?
Thanks Ossie, I'll give this a try and I'm also gonna put the inverter on a seperate battery just to be safe because when it blew up I was not pulsing the high voltage. I had the entire circuit hooked up and ready to go but as soon as I turned on the inverter it blew. So do you think since I have to reverse polarity on the IC that I need the diodes on the other side??
I'm using Ossie's circuit but I will go back and read the first page again and see if I can learn something. Thanks guys for all the help yer giving everybody, especially me because as my username states electricity bumfuzzles me!
Alright, alright, perhaps I'm just a bit overanxious to get to the engine part. :)
I'll turn it down a bit. ;)
I just got the impression we were already doing very well with the plasma ignition
and the circuit that I thought we might be ready to move to the engine part of
the story already.
And since s1r9a9m9 has been posting about his working V8, I thought "here we go". :)
But if you guys want to work out the circuit some more and come up with a
"standardised" circuit for this before we start trying things in engines,
that's fine with me.
Don't let my enthousiasm complicate your circuit tests. :)
@xbox hacker: hehe, I see someone else is anxious to get this to work
in an engine setup ;D So, let me see if I got you: you used a mower engine,
pulled out the spark plug, hooked it to the circuit and adjusted some things
so it worked and produced the plasma ignition effect just like Ossie and
Lucs curcuit does... But it only works if the plug is not "grounded" to the body
of the mower? Hmm...
Thanks Ossie, I'll give this a try and I'm also gonna put the inverter on a seperate battery just to be safe because when it blew up I was not pulsing the high voltage. I had the entire circuit hooked up and ready to go but as soon as I turned on the inverter it blew. So do you think since I have to reverse polarity on the IC that I need the diodes on the other side??
I'm using Ossie's circuit but I will go back and read the first page again and see if I can learn something. Thanks guys for all the help yer giving everybody, especially me because as my username states electricity bumfuzzles me!
I just watched capacitor70 video. The funny sound you hear that some of you say is distinct to the water engines like this one and S1r's is due to the muffler being removed. Go take the muffler off yer lawnmower and start it up and you'll see what I mean, it's sort of a popping sound.
He says it will only run with the choke on, my guess is that you gotta remember water is heavier than gasoline so it might have a harder time getting sucked up thru the venturi than gasoline. Also when you choke a carb it sucks more fuel in, maybe water needs a richer mixture than gasoine so you'll have to jet the carb bigger. These are things to play with once I get it installed on a motor.
anybody can answer: why use inverter, if the current is being rectified just after the inverter?? Thanks a lot
Hi bumfuzzled,
I beg to differ about the cause of the sound. I have ran many a petrol engine without a muffler in my time and I am sure most will agree with me that it is not something you put up with for long. A petrol engine without a muffler is a terribly loud sort of cracking sound.
But I do want to point out another thing we have noticed on these supposed water engines and that is that there does appear to be something like water vapour coming out of the exhaust and not smoke as that you would expect from a petrol enine. This exhausted water vapour soon just dissapears and pretty quickly becomes invisible or falls downwards.
Regards,
Ossie
Another thing to think about is these motors with a magneto and points have a waste spark at the top of the exhaust stroke. Is the inverter able to charge the cap up quick enough everytime for both sparks?? You electronics gurus will have to figure that one out. A motor running at 3000 rpm with a waste spark will pulse the HV 3000 times a minute so that's 50 times a second, can the inverter keep up??
@xbox hacker: hehe, I see someone else is anxious to get this to workYes, that is correct, but obviously it wouldnt work if the plug was in the motor...LOL
in an engine setup ;D So, let me see if I got you: you used a mower engine,
pulled out the spark plug, hooked it to the circuit and adjusted some things
so it worked and produced the plasma ignition effect just like Ossie and
Lucs curcuit does... But it only works if the plug is not "grounded" to the body
of the mower? Hmm...
Hi bumfuzzled,
Please see the last circuit and results I posted as follows:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.msg109796.html#msg109796
I have run this circuit up to 100Hz with no problems. At 70Hz it only uses 5 amps at 12V on the inverter's input. The inverter was delivering only 60 watts where it is designed to deliver up to 300 watts continuously. I know you have been blowing up inverters and are trying to do this but please try and read and understand all of the previous posts regarding the circuits. Get someone to help you if you need to. This may help you to have more success.
Regards,
Ossie
@bumfuzzled
Thanks for the tip to change the timing. I am not a small engine mechanic. It seems to me, I remember years ago reading using offset keys to change timing. Of course those guys had a machine shop to get the timing exactly where they wanted it.
It all seems moot because Cap70 answered me on another thread that his motor had no altered timing. This seems contradictory to what I recall the original guy said with the running V-8, that the timing was retarded 25 degrees. It is also moot for me because he also said two-cycle engines will not work because the water sits on the piston. He said to use 4-cycle with high compression. So that leaves out my electric start two-cycle engine. Unless maybe the water was pre misted instead of liquid?
I just had a thought for the day someone is ready for a big engine.
In my old hot-rodding days they had belt driven Paxton centrifugal superchargers. If you installed one after the carb, the high speed fan would help mix the water droplets before the engine.
tishatang
I don't know why luc created the other thread. We have gotten excellent results with capacitor70's circuit. User jcbx6 over in the waterfuel1978 group has gotten his volvo to run on water with the same circuit capcitor70 is using. So over here we are making progress rapidly. The postal service is slower than molasses so I still have to wait before I can get mine working too.
By the way, I don't think this system uses THAT much electricity that it would drain a battery. You would need two, however, because the starter motor drags down the voltage so much it would put the inverter in self protect mode.
Looking good so far, full steam ahead.
Hi everyone, just to let you all know I posted this reply to Super God's post at the other topic.
Luc
Hi Sg, I created the other thread because I found that water explosion could be achieved without a large capacitive discharge and that seems to be very interesting and worth looking at just that. Also please note that S1R has said his system does not use capacitors. So, in order to not create confusion in this thread since you are using a different approach I started a new topic. At this time my updated circuit (on page one) of the topic I started uses only 1uf or 2uf depending on the inverter output.
Are you sure user jcbx6 at the waterfuel1978 group is saying his Volvo is working on water at this time?
@capacitor70 my congratulations :D to you in demonstrating that it is truly possible to get a ICE to run on water ;)
Keep up this important research :) we will find the way to get this done one way or another.
Luc
I think EV Gray used a circuit almost identical to the one posted, my understanding was that a HV source was used to produce a plasma arc across two conductors, this plasma would then conduct a large 12v current source(batteries) across the conductors. Plasma is a perfect conductor thus the HV arc was used as a means to switch a large current source on and off much like ionization does in radio tubes. Because the HV arc controls the duration time of the large current source the discharge time can be made extremely small. As well there must be two currents flowing in the conducting space, one high voltage/low amps the other low voltage/high amps which is interesting in itself. This small duration high energy impulse between the conductors was said to produce "radiant" effects that EV Gray used to power an electric motor and recharge his batteries. There is the possibility this is a very "natural" process, when we consider lightning we have always thought that the discharge is a high voltage/high current discharge. But maybe the high voltage discharge in lightning is nothing more than a conducting path for the naturally occurring potential gradient (100v/m)found in earths atmosphere--the current source.
Very interesting stuff ;D
@ Luc, Ossie and all
In this video presented to the group here,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l54wlbi0Szk
qiman/Aaron is challenging us.
We are continuing to design/modify circuits around a basic premise that we have adopted defacto.
That is, we assume we are piggybacking a HV spark onto a LV spark as a simultaneous event to produce the plasma effect.
He clearly shows the HV spark can be separated and still produce plasma.
This needs to be thought through..... I agree with Ossie.... there remains much thinking and circuit experimentation to be done.
You never know...... until you find out!
@ Luc, Ossie and all
In this video presented to the group here,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l54wlbi0Szk
qiman/Aaron is challenging us.
We are continuing to design/modify circuits around a basic premise that we have adopted defacto.
That is, we assume we are piggybacking a HV spark onto a LV spark as a simultaneous event to produce the plasma effect.
He clearly shows the HV spark can be separated (unless I misunderstood) and still produce the plasma effect.
Am I right about this?
Hi vlpe,@Ossie & all. I'm still waiting for my inverter but decided to experiement with my spare Toro lawnmower today. I used the Ossie circuit with 16 diodes in series. In place of the inverter I used my trusty EICO lab bench hv power supply. My cap was rated at 350 volts so I set the supply to about 275. I found out the hard way that the magneto on the Toro puts out negative pulses, not positive like I expected. This was confusing until I verified it with a Simpson 260 meter.
My tests have shown that you need at least 90-100 volts minimum to cause a plasma discharge across the ignition spark in a spark plug set for a standard gap. An inverter raises 12 volts to 110 or 240 volts for this purpose. Many other methods and DC power supplies can be used for this purpose. But considering the relatively cheap price of inverters these days, it is quite convienient to use one. As long as you know what your doing and don't blow it up...
Regards,
Ossie
I just watched capacitor70 video. The funny sound you hear that some of you say is distinct to the water engines like this one and S1r's is due to the muffler being removed. Go take the muffler off yer lawnmower and start it up and you'll see what I mean, it's sort of a popping sound.
He says it will only run with the choke on, my guess is that you gotta remember water is heavier than gasoline so it might have a harder time getting sucked up thru the venturi than gasoline. Also when you choke a carb it sucks more fuel in, maybe water needs a richer mixture than gasoine so you'll have to jet the carb bigger. These are things to play with once I get it installed on a motor.
So.... is that spark on spark?
or spark on field?
@ Luc, Ossie and all
In this video presented to the group here,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l54wlbi0Szk
qiman/Aaron is challenging us.
We are continuing to design/modify circuits around a basic premise that we have adopted defacto.
That is, we assume we are piggybacking a HV spark onto a LV spark as a simultaneous event to produce the plasma effect.
He clearly shows the HV spark can be separated (unless I misunderstood) and still produce the plasma effect.
Am I right about this?
qiman quote:"There are some very specific ways to design the circuit so that worrying about the isolation is not even an issue. There are extra benefits to this that I will discuss later."
@ Luc, Ossie and all
In this video presented to the group here,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l54wlbi0Szk
qiman/Aaron is challenging us.
We are continuing to design/modify circuits around a basic premise that we have adopted defacto.
That is, we assume we are piggybacking a HV spark onto a LV spark as a simultaneous event to produce the plasma effect.
He clearly shows the HV spark can be separated (unless I misunderstood) and still produce the plasma effect.
Am I right about this?
I don't know what is happing, right now I'm leaning towards the video explanation. I got a big white/blue flash and bang with no water! About the same as I was getting before on the old circuit with water, except it had some orange. Didn't get to try with water before the diodes failed.
Can anyone else try with water?
I was using a 120uf 200V cap.
Regards, Larry
Gary,
"In the video he said Luc has made a mini Grey tube .........not quite true "
I talked about the electroradiant event that happens in the tube. Please watch your
analysis of what I do and please don't change what I say or take what I say out
of context as you have done. What I have said IS quite true.
@Group
Please pardon my intrusion, but I have missed a valuable bit of information and hope someone will point me in the right direction (without sarcasm).
Where is the information on why one needs atm*x versus atm=1 to observe the effect of the plasma on vapor? Has no one tried something as simple as I have?
I may be all wrong, but is the basis of the research on a few people that have stated they have engines running or is it based on the ability of blowing up a simple plastic bottle containing some vapor and a plug?
Please, I do want to explore this, but as so many say about my work, they want supporting information.
Thanks Much....
I put the inverter on a seperate battery and it DIDN'T blow up!! ;D But now when I arc the plug a few times pretty fast the display on the inverter reads SC for short circuit. Maybe I just need to get a different brand of inverter.
No sarcasm, but ... WTF is "atm*x versus atm=1"? Atmospheric Pressure? Please don't assume that everyone here has followed all your posts and knows what you are talking about ....Thanks for the succinct response. I am now assured its all under control and I will be of no help.
I'm seeking answers too - and my big unanswered questions are:
Why vapour? If the energy comes from the latent heat of liquid water, then why not use water - and get the spark to turn the water into vapour, liberating the most energy?
Why compression? That's applying existing ICE ideas to something that may not behave anything like an ICE. AFAIK, lightening bolts in a storm cloud are in localised low pressure zones ... a depression weather event.
Why air? Hydrocarbon fuels require oxygen, but water already contains oxygen. And maybe the effect we want isn't the high temp disassociation of hydrogen & oxygen anyway (that would appear to require too much power input)?
So is the ideal process Anaerobic?
I'm not wanting to muddy the waters - I really want to clarify the very essence of the overunity principle that is being tested here. There will be many versions of working designs - but we need to understand the heart of the working principle ... there have been many false leads so far.
For example - can we safely consider that "special inverters" was a mistake/red-herring/mis-direction?
Why vapour? If the energy comes from the latent heat of liquid water, then why not use water - and get the spark to turn the water into vapour, liberating the most energy?Quote
In my opinion vapor is the easy road .
If a motor can be shown to run a little by dripping water into the intake .......then uncontroled water into the intake is the right way to go . .....................................
Personally I don't think there is much way to control the process using mist .
Unless control can be found by manipulaing the LV current .
A motor in a car needs a high degree of control .
I think that injecting water at the plug .........or in the plug is the way to go.............
Making the first injector plugs will not be quick or easy .
I don't have the money to even start the process right nowQuote
Why compression? That's applying existing ICE ideas to something that may not behave anything like an ICE. AFAIK, lightening bolts in a storm cloud are in localised low pressure zones ... a depression weather event.
I think that compression should work the same with a water motor ......... A spark in a vacume makes no noise ...and can do no work . It only radiates heat and light .
The more pressure in the cylinder the more work can be done .Quote
Why air? Hydrocarbon fuels require oxygen, but water already contains oxygen. And maybe the effect we want isn't the high temp disassociation of hydrogen & oxygen anyway (that would appear to require too much power input)?
So is the ideal process Anaerobic?
I don't think that this process really needs air ...........but it is kind of hard to get rid of .
and I don't think it is hurting anything .
gary
My turn to ask if I am missing something...
Am I missing something? Does a spark automatically imply that kinetic energy must also be being released in the form of expansion of gases? I know this forum is focussed on working on the spark, but says who that a spark will be of any use? Sure, we can make it bigger, but to me it's still just a spark.
That's why i keep suggesting we expand this to examine more than just the spark. I think we need to figure out if the spark can be used to do useful work for us. I don't know how many read my posts on here though.
My turn to ask if I am missing something...
Am I missing something? Does a spark automatically imply that kinetic energy must also be being released in the form of expansion of gases? I know this forum is focussed on working on the spark, but says who that a spark will be of any use? Sure, we can make it bigger, but to me it's still just a spark.
That's why i keep suggesting we expand this to examine more than just the spark. I think we need to figure out if the spark can be used to do useful work for us. I don't know how many read my posts on here though.
@Group
Please pardon my intrusion, but I have missed a valuable bit of information and hope someone will point me in the right direction (without sarcasm).
Where is the information on why one needs atm*x versus atm=1 to observe the effect of the plasma on vapor? Has no one tried something as simple as I have?
I may be all wrong, but is the basis of the research on a few people that have stated they have engines running or is it based on the ability of blowing up a simple plastic bottle containing some vapor and a plug?
Please, I do want to explore this, but as so many say about my work, they want supporting information.
Thanks Much....
Just a quick question,
What happened to all of the posts by capacitor70 and his attempt to get the water delivery to his scooter engine solved?? Deleted??
???
HHONOW
Hi livingwaters08, can you tell us which posts by capacitor70 got deleted in this topic ?...If you are talking about another topic then why are you asking about that here?
Luc
Luc, The posts were here this afternoon, on this thread. Now they are gone. I was just asking if they have been moved or deleted??
The discussion involved important information regarding fuel delivery to his recent achievement of running a scooter engine on water.
He also posted his circuit diagram, which I know is not the focus here. I just would like to know where the posts ended up??
Thanks for your reply.
HHONOW
My turn to ask if I am missing something...I read and agree.
Am I missing something? Does a spark automatically imply that kinetic energy must also be being released in the form of expansion of gases? I know this forum is focussed on working on the spark, but says who that a spark will be of any use? Sure, we can make it bigger, but to me it's still just a spark.
That's why i keep suggesting we expand this to examine more than just the spark. I think we need to figure out if the spark can be used to do useful work for us. I don't know how many read my posts on here though.
I will be testing on an 11 HP Briggs motor in th next few hours. I've got the carb soaking in cleaner, it was pretty gunked up. Soon as I get it cleaned out I'll run it on gas to make sure the carb is good to go then I'll be switching over to water to see what happens. I'll adjust the timing to see if it makes a difference. I wish I had a jet kit for the carb to see if bigger or smaller jets make a difference.
You mean you have the effect working after all those dead inverters?
@anyone
Can someone get me up to speed on the principle at work here? How does the spark extract the energy from the water?
1. When hydrogen combines with oxygen to make water (ie when it burns), energy is released which can be used to power a device, for example some kind of internal combustion engine.
2. To take water and separate its hydrogen from its oxygen, external energy must be supplied, most commonly electrical energy through electrolysis.
3. The amount of energy involved in #1 and #2 above is exactly the same for the same amount of material: in other words there's an exact give-and-take of energy when you go from hydrogen/oxygen to water and back again.
So here's what I don't get: if you start off with water as fuel I don't see how you can extract the energy from it - in fact, you have to put energy IN to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen. So if that's the case, what's the principle at work here that makes this special spark able to get energy from water? Thanks,
-Mike
Luc, The posts were here this afternoon, on this thread. Now they are gone. I was just asking if they have been moved or deleted??
The discussion involved important information regarding fuel delivery to his recent achievement of running a scooter engine on water.
He also posted his circuit diagram, which I know is not the focus here. I just would like to know where the posts ended up??
Thanks for your reply.
HHONOW
Hi,
I did not delete anything.
Luc did you delete it, as you are the moderator of this thread ?
What was it about ?
So how about it? Let's organize some conversions.
We need technical skills, engines, money and people to do the work. Most everyone reading this could help in some way.
So if you want to change the world then please reply with what you are willing to put in either to the list or to me and I will post them all replies on one post.
Can you donate an engine? Technical skills (especially car related, in person or over the internet)? Money? Can you supply the electronics? (state where you are too, hopefully we can assemble teams)Quote
I don't have money for this kind of stuff at the moment .......but I did do my part for today at least
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5088.0.htmlQuoteSo far there seems to be only Capacitor70 and I guess Supergod who have got all the parts together to do a motor test, if everyone reading this decided to make a stand and put in what they can we could probably deliver a fatal blow to big oil before the middle of the month, think about that!
I think the middle of the month is quicker than is practical ............However ........from what I understand it is mostly speculators driving up fuel prices at the moment .
If we make alot of progress quickly and word gets out ...... the speculation market will dry up in minutes ......... Then the market will return to supply and demand
gary
My set up rev 3..... ;D
It works! draw on inverter is very low!
+ve on the HV fro m the motor is VERY important!
I have uploaded a diagram to show what I have in mind for my test setup. I know it's not very detailed. Please tell me if this looks like a safe and plausible configuration to start with.
(http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/thumbs/small/1539116_ysw7l/plasma-plug-setup1.jpg) (http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/view/full/1539116_ysw7l)
I would prefer to do my initial testing using house current connected to the switch instead of from an inverter from a battery. I figure, no sense in using a battery when I have an outlet and my device isn't mobile enough to warrant using a battery, and no sense in taking the risk of breaking my inverter.
I have uploaded a diagram to show what I have in mind for my test setup. I know it's not very detailed. Please tell me if this looks like a safe and plausible configuration to start with.
(http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/thumbs/small/1539116_ysw7l/plasma-plug-setup1.jpg) (http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/view/full/1539116_ysw7l)
I would prefer to do my initial testing using house current connected to the switch instead of from an inverter from a battery. I figure, no sense in using a battery when I have an outlet and my device isn't mobile enough to warrant using a battery, and no sense in taking the risk of breaking my inverter.
Hi LarryC,
One thing I would like to point out with the discharge and the reaction with water present is that, as Luc has told us of previously, even moisture in the air can increase the explosiveness of the discharge. Spraying water on your spark gap certainly increases the explosiveness a great deal but if you don't, humidity of the air and any natural condensate of moisture on your electrodes or spark plug will increase the power of the discharge. To alter this, simply use a hair dryer or heat gun and completely dry your electrodes and/or spark plug... Regards, Ossie
@anyoneNow there is a good question ;) A very wise person I know once said " you cannot build what you do not understand" and I believe this to be true --- so maybe we should explore the mechanism involved in-depth.
Can someone get me up to speed on the principle at work here? How does the spark extract the energy from the water?
1. When hydrogen combines with oxygen to make water (ie when it burns), energy is released which can be used to power a device, for example some kind of internal combustion engine.
2. To take water and separate its hydrogen from its oxygen, external energy must be supplied, most commonly electrical energy through electrolysis.
3. The amount of energy involved in #1 and #2 above is exactly the same for the same amount of material: in other words there's an exact give-and-take of energy when you go from hydrogen/oxygen to water and back again.
So here's what I don't get: if you start off with water as fuel I don't see how you can extract the energy from it - in fact, you have to put energy IN to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen. So if that's the case, what's the principle at work here that makes this special spark able to get energy from water? Thanks,
-Mike
As the HV is used to give the bridge to the low current from the inverter... maybe could it be possible to run it direct from the battery??
If you connect the positive battery through a direct wire to the plug with a strong diode pack to avoid reverse from HV the battery will find the road open as soon as the HV sparks and a 12 volt battery can deliver enough power to melt the plug.
I cannot get it to work on the lawnmower. I have the same problem with the test circuit. If I open the LV circuit anywhere then I can get my HV arc. If I don't open the LV circuit I cannot get a HV spark. With the test circuit I had to reverse polarity on the ignition coil to get this to work. I'm sure that's what my problem is on the lawnmower but there is no way to reverse the polarity with a magneto that I know of.
Another thing Ossie told me to check was the polarity of the coil. I did this test with ONLY the HV circuit hooked up. When the diodes are blocking flow from the coil to ground I get no fire, when they are blocking from ground to the coil I get fire. It is this way with the car coil and the lawnmower. Can somebody explain this to me because I thought electricty always flowed from neg to pos but according to that test it is flowing from the coil to ground which would be backwards.
Only thing I know to do is get a lawnmower with points ignition and bypass the magneto and use the points to trigger my car ignition coil so that way I can reverse the polarity on it so it will work. I've yet to have anybody really explain the flow of this circuit so until I understand it then I'm at the mercy of you people that know electricity.
I've tried the string of diodes in every place in the circuit I can think of backwards and forwards and nothing helps.
Hi bumfuzzled and all,
I did some bench tests with a new line trimmer motor yesterday using only water. The motor is a two stroke motor and has a fully enclosed electronic magneto coil. I also found that the pulse coming out of the magneto output was negative. So accordingly I connected the positive of my discharge circuit to the ground of the spark plug, but still I could not get the whole circuit to fire in the open as the ignition spark would not work. I found that I had to put a 12kV microwave oven diode in series with the ignition coil/magneto's output such that it was connected to and pointing to the magneto's output lead. This fixed the problem and now the circuit fires just fine in the open.
Because the HV pulse is essentialy the back emf from the ignition coil/magneto, there is a smaller pulse of the opposite polarity just preceding it which is the power pulse the coil needs to have to create a back emf, by not having the 12kV diode, it seems that the discharge circuit shorts out this preceding power pulse and that is why it needs a diode in series with the output of the ignition coil/magneto and still be able to create the required ignition spark.
The first thing I found was that the discharge circuit would not fire inside the cylinder. I could tell this by looking at my ammeter connected to the input of the inverter. capacitor70 used a household light bulb connected in series with the 240V section of his discharge circuit which also provides a very good indication if the discharge is occurring in the cylinder or not as there is no other way to know this, unless the motor runs. After a considerable amount of test and diagnostics, I found that for some reason, perhaps even because of the water vapour, that the ignition spark was too week to occur and allow the discharge circuit to fire inside the cylinder for the spark gap size I was using. Reducing the spark gap did resolve this problem to a point, as I found that it needed to be reduced so much as that now it is prone to getting clogged with water very easily. But also, a reduced gap does not appear to be benificial to the plasma water explosion as indicated by outside tests. Larger spark gaps appear to cause larger explosions.
All up after numerous trials I found that I was only able to get the motor to fire with water only once. By fire I mean one explosion pushing the piston down once in the correct direction and not running. I also found that a number of times I could feel the motor fire as a pressure in the reverse direction on the pull cord. This is indicative that the timing appears to be advanced from TDC so if this is the case, then there is no way for me to adjust the timing on this motor as it has a fixed magneto, without modification to the design and ignition system of the motor. To get the motor to fire just once on this motor it required me to use 310uf of capacitance in the discharge circuit. Firing this amount of charge out in the open with water sprayed on the spark plug sounds like a gunshot, I can tell you!
There is also quite alot of work to be done in regard to the air/waterfuel mixture required. But this can only be explored once the motor can be setup to fire regularly. So from my initial tests, I see more advantages in doing this on a larger 4 stroke motor with a stronger ignition system and variable control of the timing and air/waterfuel mixture.
Please see the following pictures of my setup.
Regards,
Ossie
That motor setup was NOT a failure, look what you learned!!!!! Most impressive........I bet your next one WILL work....That 35 degrees AFTER TDC looks more and more like a viable setting.
Ben
.
Bumfuzzled - your ignorance on things electrical is likely to be a self-fullfilling prophesy. You can chose to "ignore" the wealth of knowledge all around you, or you can chose to start learning. At the very bottom if you must - but don't blame your ignorance an anything other than your own choice.
Hi livingwaters08, I did not delete any posts by capacitor70 in this topic. If I did I would of mention that in the reply to you. Also please not that if I delete a post I can only delete the content! so the post would still be there just empty. Can you show me an empty post by capacitor70?
Luc
No deleting of any posts by capacitor70 have been done by me. I have no idea what it was about since I was out most of yesterday afternoon and evening and did not have access. Maybe capacitor70 removed them himself after posting?
Luc
@anyone
Can someone get me up to speed on the principle at work here? How does the spark extract the energy from the water?
1. When hydrogen combines with oxygen to make water (ie when it burns), energy is released which can be used to power a device, for example some kind of internal combustion engine.
2. To take water and separate its hydrogen from its oxygen, external energy must be supplied, most commonly electrical energy through electrolysis.
3. The amount of energy involved in #1 and #2 above is exactly the same for the same amount of material: in other words there's an exact give-and-take of energy when you go from hydrogen/oxygen to water and back again.
So here's what I don't get: if you start off with water as fuel I don't see how you can extract the energy from it - in fact, you have to put energy IN to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen. So if that's the case, what's the principle at work here that makes this special spark able to get energy from water? Thanks,
-Mike
Hey at least I'm out there trying to figure this out instead of sitting behind a keyboard criticizing people who are actually trying to get things going. If you'll read up a couple posts you'll see the man that came up with the circuit that I'm using had trouble getting it to work on an engine too at first. Are you an electronics wizard? If so did you learn it overnight? You know how long I've been learning about electronics? About a week now so unless you have something useful to say to me then please leave me out of yer posts.
I am not ready yet for the complete setup but I was playing with different mod on some spark plug.
I removed on one the resistance and just fire up the spark plug (just from a small 12v 7a battery) and was getting very little spark.
I used another plug, I was not able to remove the resistance but with the new configuration I was getting a very good spark!! even with the resistance.
Its easy to try, I removed the neg electrode and put glued a 1/4-20 hex nuts on the top here the picture. I image with the inverter circuit you should get
a very BIG spark, better then a normal plug configuration!
Has anyone taken a look at these Firestorm plugs to see if they might make sense to use with this application? I noticed that they have no internal resistor, and seem to generate a beefy 'plasma ball' @ 12V DC. I can only imagine what they would do with the inverter in place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abwXApkLhbc
Just a small note to see things clearly.
This has nothing to with back emf and this is not what you're using.
BACK EMF is ONLY happening when the loop is closed...Back emf is is Lenz's law...the opposing current to oppose your forward current when charging the coil with 12v or your cap.
AFTER, the input is disconnected, the field collapses and you get that "inductive spike"...that comes AFTER your forward current that has back emf opposing it.
Chronologically in sequence:
1. Charge coil and the forward charge has back emf opposing it...that IS why the forward current applied field charges so slowly.
2. Disconnect and field collapses...why does it collapse fast? There is no back emf to oppose it.
Your HV spike is a time compressed potential...you put in work and you get back potential...potential over time is watts or work and work compressed back into time is high voltage potential.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JkQZIm1wN0
A simple method of 'measuring' explosive energy. Maybe it can be helpful with your experiments.
First time I have posted here.
I have been following since this thread since it first started on this forum.
I have built a circuit based off of the picture diagram at the beginning. I'm currently not using my 400w Black and Decker inverter because I can't get more than about 2 or 3 sparks and something trips internally and it shuts itself off. This happens with everything from a 1 microfarad to 150 microfarad capacitor. I gave up on the inverter for now and went to something I know is sure to work. I'm using 110v AC from a wall socket going through 4 60w and 2 75w light bulbs in parallel to give me 390w AC. Wish I could attach a picture but my wife has the digital camera right now. I run this into an 8 amp full wave bridge rectifier. The negative from the bridge goes to ground on the MSD coil, spark plug(motor) ground, and one side of a 135 microfarad capacitor. The positive side of the bridge connects to the spark plug via 16 1N5407 diodes. The output of the coil is connected to the spark plug also. It looks very much like the picture diagram at the front of this post except where the SPDT switch is I have fabricated a set of points that are operated by a cam lobe collar locked down by a set screw on the output shaft of a Briggs & Stratton 5HP Horizontal shaft engine. So far I've tried timing settings from 40 degrees before top dead center to 60 degrees after top dead center. I haven't been able to get it to run with only water. I can tell you this though- there is no way a normal ignition system would take the amount of water I've run through this engine. It seems to want to try to run on water at low rpm with the throttle valve completely closed.
I have run out of time for now and will be gone for 4 days. Will try again when I get back.
I'd like to mention that there is a big difference I think between the picture diagram and the circuit diagram at the beginning of this post from my point of view. The picture diagram is firing a capacitor THROUGH the coil and the circuit diagram is firing a capacitor ON TOP OF a coil discharge. I think this leaves more to be investigated.
I'd also like to mention that while using this setup the spark plug will fire without being grounded to the circuit. The engine is mounted to wood boards for insulation purposes. I accidentally forget to connect the ground from the circuit to the engine block and the plug still fired. As soon as I touched the motor I got shocked and then figured out I forgot the ground wire. Any explanations on this?
If someone is going to try this be very careful. I don't touch the engine while starting or running it. I turn it over with a 1/3 HP electric motor via a drive belt pulley from a water pump off an old chevy. If you take off the recoil starter and remove the ratchet clutch a water pump pulley will bolt right on with a fine thread nut. Water pump pulleys are about 6" in diameter. I put a 2" pulley on the electric motor. It turns over great! When the engine starts firing, unplug the electric motor or it pulls down the engine. This way I can turn it over while watching the resistor light bulbs and get an indication of when the plug has cleared itself and starts firing again after being drowned out.
I originally tried turning it over with a 3/4" electric drill but for some reason it caused a full draw on the resistor light bulbs. I guess it was searching for a ground through the drill.
Happy testing everyone!!!!!
God loves you
MIke
Just a small note to see things clearly.
This has nothing to with back emf and this is not what you're using.
BACK EMF is ONLY happening when the loop is closed...Back emf is is Lenz's law...the opposing current to oppose your forward current when charging the coil with 12v or your cap.
AFTER, the input is disconnected, the field collapses and you get that "inductive spike"...that comes AFTER your forward current that has back emf opposing it.
Chronologically in sequence:
1. Charge coil and the forward charge has back emf opposing it...that IS why the forward current applied field charges so slowly.
2. Disconnect and field collapses...why does it collapse fast? There is no back emf to oppose it.
Your HV spike is a time compressed potential...you put in work and you get back potential...potential over time is watts or work and work compressed back into time is high voltage potential.
Luc, have you spun the engine with this setup? The reason I ask is most lawn mower engines have a aluminum flywheel and when you remove the blade you remove the inertia the engine needs to crank over easily. Engines with the blade removed will start but are hard to start and kick back alot. Just a heads up in case this occurs. I'm still waiting on diodes, bought all Radio Shack had and I'm still short a few.
@ bumfuzzled
Good point......ATDC might be safe for the waste spark... depending on the "length" (duration in time) of the plasma (white) vs.normal (blue) spark.
But you wouldn't get a "back" fire (still burning fuel/air coming out of the tail pipe on the exhaust stroke).....
You'd get a "front" fire coming back up through the carburetor. Be careful out there, should you start introducing
HHO into the intake (along with water)...... as a waste spark "front" fire will certainly test your spark arrestor / bubbler setup.
Thanks for your good point but I'm hoping the 10" inch pulley and belt system to the electric starting motor and the electric motor rotor itself will do the job to keep a good balance. I had read somewhere that an induction motor can be used as a generator once it is turned by another source.
I wonder if this would classify for the Overunity prize if it start the motor on water and then use the starter induction motor to outputs power ;D
Please note that that is meant to be a joke.
Luc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11sY8Sno_y8&feature=related
is this what is being built here?.........improve the spark, then add water?.
This is an attempt to see if there is any connection between this thread and the work of Marvin Cole (E.V. Gray) and his "Converter Switching Element Tube" (CSET).
Spokane1
I have noticed a few people seem to be waiting quite a while for parts, and are running into some costly expenses for their parts. I found a great place to buy parts online (checked out many sites) and bought mine from here:
www.mouser.com
Here is what I paid for my parts:
Quantity Part Cost
200 1N4007 diodes $0.02 each
200 1N5404 diodes $0.086 each
16 1 Ohm 10 Watt Resistor $0.46 each
20 10uf 250V Capacitor $0.17 each
I paid for regular ground shipping (express shipping is more expensive) and got my parts in 3 days delivered to my door. Total bill was $36.94 including shipping!
Hi all,
Got these links from the yahoo WaterFuel1978 group. Looking at the date these videos have been added it seems that people have been working on what we are trying to do here, with some success, for quite some time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQF6fvIL3RY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VEVXCXs8dQ
Regards,
Ossie
Assuming you get your motor to run ......... your system is not exactly over unity because you are using a kind of fuel ......HOWEVER ......... the exhaust WILL condense into water . If you set up a large enough cooling loop ........it should be able to run closed loop .......... if you are recycling all your fuel and producing energy there is no question that you are over unity Running closed loop would also put an and to any possible talk about any kind of pollution from the combustion processVery good point. This is why my idea posted earlier about a water pump system would be much easier to prove real over-unity. The water system could be totally closed loop. Imagine a gravity tank - say 10 meters up a hill, with 50mm pipe running up and back. The pressure vessel with check valves and sparkplug would provide timed surges of water up to the tank. The water flowing down could drive a waterwheel/turbine generator - and if that could maintain charge for the spark, overunity is achieved.
In 1994, we discovered that when
a small quantity of water (usually but not necessarily distilled) is converted to
high-density fog within microseconds, the fog explodes violently. Fog is de?ned
as a multiplicity of tiny water droplets that ?oat in air. The discovery has
been fully described in a book dealing with pre-Maxwellian electrodynamics
(Graneau and Graneau 1996). More recent ?ndings have been discussed in a
previous paper in this journal (Hathaway et al. 1998).
The fog generator is a small water-?lled electric arc cavity to be described
later. In a typical explosion, the cavity receives less than about 50 J of
electrostatic energy from a high-voltage capacitor. Almost all of the input
energy is converted to low-grade heat, raising the water to a few degrees above
ambient temperature. This heat is incapable of raising steam or contributing in
any other way to the explosion. It seems inevitable that the fog is being
produced by electrodynamic forces in the current-carrying arc plasma. Such
forces can furnish the mechanical surface-tension energy required for tearing
bulk water apart into tiny fog droplets.
With 50 J of input energy, the quantity of fog produced is of the order of
0.75 g of water. To dissociate this amount of water into oxygen and hydrogen
would require 10 kJ of energy. Hence the fog explosion is unlikely to be caused
by electrolytic dissociation of water molecules. Without this dissociation, the
most likely source of the explosion energy is that stored by hydrogen bonds
between the water molecules. This bond energy is said to be equal to the latent
heat of evaporation, and therefore could contribute up to 2200 J g−".
Figure 1 depicts the proposed renewable water energy cycle. The fog contains
less H#O?H#O bond energy per gram than a raindrop. In other words, its latent
heat of evaporation is less than that of bulk water. This is known from the fact
that the equilibrium vapour pressure just outside a water droplet increases with
decreasing droplet diameter (Young 1993). The internal-energy difference
between the cold fog expelled from the accelerator must be made up by
atmospheric heat ? that is, essentially by solar energy. No other energy source
appears to be available for replacing the extracted kinetic energy.
Very good point. This is why my idea posted earlier about a water pump system would be much easier to prove real over-unity. The water system could be totally closed loop. Imagine a gravity tank - say 10 meters up a hill, with 50mm pipe running up and back. The pressure vessel with check valves and sparkplug would provide timed surges of water up to the tank. The water flowing down could drive a waterwheel/turbine generator - and if that could maintain charge for the spark, overunity is achieved.
I admire the enthusiasm of those converting engines. I just hope that they don't cloud the issue with failures that will draw attention away from the real core energy source here.
I think there are those struggling with the idea that this is about primarily about producing heat, or disassociating H & O. I expect there will be an element of this - but if that is the main focus, it will soon be found that there is no overunity. Very possibly there is some real MIB disinformation clouding this thread already - I have my suspicions about some posts that seem to be guiding the attention off the real issue.
If we allow ourselves to get misdirected - we will find we are using too much current, and will never achieve overunity. The circuits to follow are the ones that use the least amount of current - preferably in milliamps.
IMO - this is cold energy. The Latent Heat of converting liquid water into water vapour. This is regular physics - nothing metaphysical needs to be invoked.
Sorry if i've offended anyone. (Bumfuzzled - you better put me on your ignore list, because I say what I think - it's nothing personal).
My 2 cents from somebody just sitting at a keyboard adding nothing to the discussion.
Maybe capacitor70 removed them himself after posting?
Burn these words into your brain (cut from the Graneau experiment pdf):
Note the big difference between 50 Joules and 10 kilo Joules (10,000 Joules). Don't miss this point - because that is what the misdirectors want you to lose sight of. If you are blowing up inverters and using mains AC for brute force - you are mistaken, or are intentionally trying to misdirect research.
Right on Greendoor,
What everyone is missing is that you have to place water IN the spark, not around it. The more I read and see, indicates that what is going on has very little to do with "burning" the water. The engines that run via Carb. or direct dribbling of water into the intake are drowning in water, and by chance enough gets around or on the plug to obtain the effect. I suspect that water around the spark is useless. What is needed is a totally different spark plug/water holder to cause this type of reaction reliably! To get a 50 J discharge requires 100VDC @ 10,000 mfd....give or take but that is to big an explosion as I don't think many pistons can hold up to a mechanical equivalent pulse of a 10,000 J pulse.....So a smaller pulse is needed, probably in the 5-10 J area. So back up gang, put your thinking caps on! It would appear we are NOT burning water as there is little if no heat, we are exploding water and releasing energy from within as so ably discussed in several post lately! This also suggest we don't need compression, just conversion from pressure to motion!!!! Is all of this discussion what Stanley Meyer discovered? Are we reinventing the wheel!?
Ben
Ben
I think they're saying it must originate within the zone, and from there it can cascade outwards untill all the energy is dissipated. I think of it like pool or snooker balls. It's not breaking the balls, but the energy will transfer from balls that fall within the plasma balls to any others in the locality that they hit, and disrupt the weak bond between individual H2O molecules (inter rather than intra). If there's nothing in the plasma path to start with then there's a mis-cue, or mis-fire.
Shiver
Where are you allcanadian?.. can you please start a Tesla style topic using this circuit?LOL, You must have read my mind, I was about to post an easier way to acheive the desired effects----Tesla style. ;D I built your original circuit last night and Qiman's, and it works very well but there are issues. Now consider what is happening in this circuit, an inverter raises a 12v batteries potential to 120v(losses) and is rectified to DC(losses) then charges a capacitor.This capacitor is discharged through the primary of an ignition coil ------ but what happens next? Qiman gave part of the answer ;) The moment the potential from the capacitor reaches the primary of the coil a larger potential is induced in the secondary HV coil. All of you see a spark across the gap but that is only the beginning, Qiman said this is all about "potential" and he is correct. The very moment the HV jumps the arc gap a higher potential appears at both the (-)negative terminal of the primary having an inductance or opposition to current flow and the negative side of the capacitor ;) As such an oscillitory series circuit is formed, the HV appearing behind the capacitor forces another impulse through the capacitor and primary thus the secondary raising potential incrementally. This "appears" to be a single arc across the gap only because the frequency of oscillation is extremely high as such the "qualities" of the arc discharge have changed from what we know. The variables we need be concerned with are potential and frequency of oscillation(wave period)---- this is not "alternating" current it is HV impulsive DC, the flow never reverses but does oscillate within itself, each oscillation raising the potential. You could call it unidirectional RF in which the radiative properties have been expanded. The oscillations produce resonant vibrations within the media and the potential difference tears it apart.
The HV from the ignition coil instantaneously (or close to it) ionizes the water droplets and when hit with the higher amperage from the rectified AC/inverter part of the circut, is just like Lightening and the air molecules around the water droplet are accelerated at supersonic speeds, hence the loud bang.This has been covered, the effect is produced even when the inverter/rectifier is disconnected from the circuit hence there is no "high amperage" required.
The reaction is just like thunder and lightening. Ionized water droplets in the atmosphere are then hit by a strong static charge (Lightening). The air molecules BETWEEN the water droplets are being accelerated at supersonic speeds and bumping into more water droplets, which bumps more air molecules... in a cascading effect. The thunder we hear and feel is a sonic boom or concussion wave.There is also an electrostatic standing wave produced preceeding the sonic boom this standing wave extending hundreds of miles past where the thunder could be heard. Which raises the question as to whether the "boom" is produced by electrostatic forces or a pressure wave or both.
This has been covered, the effect is produced even when the inverter/rectifier is disconnected from the circuit hence there is no "high amperage" required.
We are hear to learn and seek understanding, I think everyones opinion and perspective should be heard, that is a part of the learning process the professionals of science have yet to understand.
If there was a disassociation of water into HHO and burned, then the \\\"system\\\" would be hot, just like burning fossil fuels or burning ANYTHING. As evidenced by Luc AND Ossie, the spark plug is barely warm. The reason is because NOTHING is being ignited or burned!
The reaction is just like thunder and lightening. Ionized water droplets in the atmosphere are then hit by a strong static charge (Lightening). The air molecules BETWEEN the water droplets are being accelerated at supersonic speeds and bumping into more water droplets, which bumps more air molecules... in a cascading effect. The thunder we hear and feel is a sonic boom or concussion wave.
This concussion wave can do work by pushing down a piston...
Hi all!
I realised that most people here clever enough to center on what is going on and pay little attention to armchair semantic expert engineers.
I am also an engineer, after 30 years I forgot almost everything, but what I learned is to see, analise, put my hands on the bench and confirm if it works or not, then you gan give an oppinion on your experience but no much more.
Any expert that says something is impossible is most times wrong, so dont be affected by any kind of expert violent opposition, paper is the best support for everything but the truth, that rely on facts.
A question
Wath is the krup plug design mentioned by kenpo???
cheers
Ri
The closest thing to a Firestorm spark plug that I have found on the market is,
http://www.extremespark.com/index.html
I'm waiting on mine to come in so I can test them. Chris
Chris
They look good .
They don't list their prices on their website
Do you mind telling us how much they charged you?
They don;t say they have resistors ......but there is what they call a pressure seal ......or something like that.
They say it is made of carbon and glass fiber . .........I wonder if they have a non resistor version .
IF so it could be a big help here.
.
gary
There is a reason all current sophisticated engine platforms use a fine wire electrode. This is opposite technology. Large round electrodes increase cycle-to-cycle variability in ionization voltage resulting in inconsistent combustion quality. I do not want to get into a technology issue but will say we have tested all forms of electrodes and gap architecture to discover that delivered electrical power is much more contributory to combustion quality.
Thank you for your time and comments
@All
I use this simple circuit to charge a 1uF/1200v capacitor to 250v with a single quick press of switch(SW).It doesn't get any cheaper or more simple than that.You can use any diode rated above the voltage you want, the transformer secondaries act as an inductor and I have charged my cap to over 1000v by using a HV microwave transformer as an inductor. Just think 12 volts directly to almost any voltage you desire with a few switch closures and SW can be replaced with a relay, there is no more efficient way to charge a capacitor I know of. What you do with the charged capacitor is up to you. ;)
They are custom made using other plug, they sell it 20$ each, In my opinion the pulstar plug are yeah better.
I asked to pulstar if they plan to upgadre there plug with firestorm, see the reply
Will it handle the inverter current? The diagram shows the pulse circuit in line with the center conductor .
new plug...thanks to gettinwet for this one http://e3sparkplugs.com/diamondfire.htm
I forgot my questions in the other thread were pertinate here as well so I'll ask. Has anyone tried aircraft style spark plugs? They do not have the standard "L" shaped electrode as most automotive plugs. Also, Mercury Marine uses a similar design plug in their old thunderbolt ignition engines. I will get the AC part number tomorrow when I get to the shop. Short of combing back thru the whole thread, has anyone mentioned the HV output voltages of the ignition coils being used? Since I do not totally understand all of the electrical happenings with the circuit you guys are using I must ask, What would happen to the spark intensity if a higher voltage ignition coil were used? Pardon my questions but I know engines not electronics.
Thanks,
Wet
@geo,.
There must be more to it than that. Your saying that the only energy being input is that from the spark. In turn the energy in the spark can only come from one place: the electrical supply (whether battery or mains). If thats your hypothesis, then there are FAR more efficient ways to turn electrical energy into rotational mechanical energy: for example a simple electric motor. So, physics-degreed though you may be, I think your mistaking the principle upon which this machine is operating.
-Mike
A couple of questions
Does the secondary somehow control the voltage that it will charge to ?
Does the size of the transformer matter ?
I have a big transformer from an old UPS just sitting here waiting to be used for something .
gary
.
That is right.
We must test, how big the overunity factor is, otherwise if the process is not overunity
it makes more sense to use an electric motor to drive a car.
I am not an electrical circuit design person by any means and it is not my forte. I am degreed in Physics and understand what is really happening here, not that it is really important anyway. That and 50 cents gets you a bad cup of coffee from a vending machine.
If there was a disassociation of water into HHO and burned, then the "system" would be hot, just like burning fossil fuels or burning ANYTHING. As evidenced by Luc AND Ossie, the spark plug is barely warm. The reason is because NOTHING is being ignited or burned!
The reaction is just like thunder and lightening. Ionized water droplets in the atmosphere are then hit by a strong static charge (Lightening). The air molecules BETWEEN the water droplets are being accelerated at supersonic speeds and bumping into more water droplets, which bumps more air molecules... in a cascading effect. The thunder we hear and feel is a sonic boom or concussion wave.
This concussion wave can do work by pushing down a piston. To futher evidence this using Luc and Ossie's experiments, in air alone the plasma arc is notably smaller than when water mist is added. Luc did get some nice "air only" plasma arcs one day, but then he also said it was raining at the time, which means a lot of humidity or water vapor in the air!
The HV from the ignition coil instantaneously (or close to it) ionizes the water droplets and when hit with the higher amperage from the rectified AC/inverter part of the circut, is just like Lightening and the air molecules around the water droplet are accelerated at supersonic speeds, hence the loud bang.
@GotolucLOL, You must have read my mind, I was about to post an easier way to acheive the desired effects----Tesla style. ;D I built your original circuit last night and Qiman's, and it works very well but there are issues. Now consider what is happening in this circuit, an inverter raises a 12v batteries potential to 120v(losses) and is rectified to DC(losses) then charges a capacitor.This capacitor is discharged through the primary of an ignition coil ------ but what happens next? Qiman gave part of the answer ;) The moment the potential from the capacitor reaches the primary of the coil a larger potential is induced in the secondary HV coil. All of you see a spark across the gap but that is only the beginning, Qiman said this is all about "potential" and he is correct. The very moment the HV jumps the arc gap a higher potential appears at both the (-)negative terminal of the primary having an inductance or opposition to current flow and the negative side of the capacitor ;) As such an oscillitory series circuit is formed, the HV appearing behind the capacitor forces another impulse through the capacitor and primary thus the secondary raising potential incrementally. This "appears" to be a single arc across the gap only because the frequency of oscillation is extremely high as such the "qualities" of the arc discharge have changed from what we know. The variables we need be concerned with are potential and frequency of oscillation(wave period)---- this is not "alternating" current it is HV impulsive DC, the flow never reverses but does oscillate within itself, each oscillation raising the potential. You could call it unidirectional RF in which the radiative properties have been expanded. The oscillations produce resonant vibrations within the media and the potential difference tears it apart.
If you want to lose both the inverter and the rectifier to reduce resistance losses you need look no further than Tesla Patent 568177 Ozone generator, an economical and efficient means to charge a capacitor to high potential, the Primary/Secondary is your ignition coil.
Best Regards
Hello all,
I've been following this discussion since the beginning. I'm not an electronics expert, but I replicated the circuit and had my spark-plug delivering a nice fat arc. Anyway, I was wondering if this setup could be run from anything other than an inverter. I borrowed the inverter I was using and it's gone now. I cannot afford one and I'd rather not give up. Could I feed 120 from the wall socket straight into my rectifier for testing purposes? I hate the thought of giving up now and could use some advice.
Thanks all and keep up the research, someone will crack this yet.
I`m just an armchair reader here, it seems to me rather than trying to get this to work with a normal ICE, which can difficult to adjust, some sort of simple piston arrangement, that would be easy to construct out of readily available parts (maybe made of transparent materials?) would be better, so that the pressure wave could be measured and adjustments made to maximize it.
A flywheel or spring for the return stroke could be added later.
I don't understand why this MISINFORMATION about current following up the HV jump keeps popping up! lol I explained ACCURATELY what is happening here and nobody has it right.
Watch tihs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l54wlbi0Szk
Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8OnvanMi-g
The 2nd vid is an ISOLATED capacitor to PROVE there is NO current from an inverter than can possibly jump a gap when it is ISOLATED FROM THE CIRCUIT. These ideas I see are throwing people down the wrong track of what is happening and unless people are using the correct model, it will negatively influence how you approach your enhancements to what you are doing to make it better.
Shiver, Broli, and the other "crapsters" as Dr. S so eloquently and perfectly phrased it... <snip>...If you have nothing to add to this particular thread in developing and enhancing the circuit necessary to produce the plasma arc,... <snip>...but off topic opinions aren't welcome and only serve to "UNFOCUS" Luc's vision and mission for THIS THREAD. Stop posting BS not related to what this thread was created for! <snip...
@geovel56
Does it matter if this is overunity or COP>1?
YES, it has to be, if it isn't, then using an electric motor would be better.
If it is, let's say only 40% efficient, you need many batteries for not so many miles.
Hi allcanadian, thank you for answering my call
Have you also ever try to 'redraw' some of his patent figures in aYes, I have below and in an earlier post the cap charger is the same patent 568177 minus the Pri/Sec with a diode. ;D
more convenient/logical/QiMan way?
@Gotoluc
Oh crap, you know I don't perform well under stress :D
@NerzhDishualYes, I have below and in an earlier post the cap charger is the same patent 568177 minus the Pri/Sec with a diode. ;D
If I could make a few comments I would say, I mean no offence but all this talk of engines and sparkplugs seems very premature, kind of like deciding how to cook your chicken before you have an egg. If an efficient means to produce a large scale plasma discharge is not produced we have nothing. The capacitor charging circuit in my last post is the easiest way I know of to replace the inverter/rectifier section of Gotoluc's circuit. This is a Tesla circuit yes, but this does not have to turn into another tesla thread, we have a goal to pursue. The next phase I am working on is the plasma process itself which I have already started .The question I had to ask first is what is happening here? this is not a standard HV arc as Gotoluc and Qiman have shown in there videos, it is not produced by the rectified inverter current as Qiman has shown. A known amount of energy in a capacitor has completely changed the qualities of its discharge from anything we know . These qualities have also changed the extent of interaction with matter (water vapor), I think a common goal would be to determine the exact "cause" of why the qualities of the plasma discharge have changed and what circuit properties have instigated this change. This would seem to be the most logical course of action if one is to improve both the efficiency and magnitude of the effect. In any case I will be working in that direction in the next few weeks and post the results.
The idea that this is combustion of hydrogen - 1st mistake. (We are liberating the Latent Heat of liquid Water in a low temperature process)
Please see my latest two "Proof Of Concept" videos here:
The only problem I have with the idea that latent heat is being liberated in the process of converting liquid water to fog, is that under normal circumstances (e.g. evaporation), the latent heat quota of liquid water must be filled in order for the liquid to convert to a vapour state. That is, heat or other photonic energy is normally absorbed by the water (added to the water from an external source) for the conversion of liquid to vapour to occur. Latent heat energy is not released.
Latent heat is usually "liberated" when a vapour condenses back to a fluid, or a fluid is converted to solid. This is the opposite of what appears to be happening in the experiments shown.
The explanation given by Peter Graneau from Northeastern University Boston USA and Neal Graneau from Oxford University UK, is a little more involved than that, I know, but it still leaves me a little puzzled ?
Can anybody expand on the explanation given by Graneau. ? I am not disputing the explanation, but I am struggling to fully understand it.
Cheers all.
Alan,@geo
OK, then take your motor out of your car and put an electric motor in, or continue with this shortsided banter and keep paying $4.35 per gallon (and on the rise) for gasoline.
@geo,
On a cold foggy morning - what turns the fog back into water?I think because the fog get sataurated and bigger water drops are formed.
@greendoor
Fog forms when water evaporates due to geothermal heat and makes contact to colder air.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog no need to wonder anymore ;)
As I am not able to design on my own a circuit to perform the pulses itself. Can you tell me if possible how to do or where to look for schemas for It?
I know signal generator and realys could do the trick, but those are not on my desk nor on everyone's budget, but I've seen some guys with more or less adjustable simple circuits that can change impulse rate as well as power pulses.
Callanan
Thank you for the demo and the work.
I am a little confused. When you rotated the crank with the cord pull (to disperse the vapor), why didn't the vapor just exit out of the exhaust port? had you sealed it closed?
Thanks again.
D
Fog/mist/water vapour has less latent heat energy than rain drops or liquid water.Why is that?!
On a cold foggy morning - what turns the fog back into water? I'm not 100% sure, but i'm reasonably certain that it's the solar radiation that adds extra heat. Whether it condenses to form water, or whether it takes off into the sky to form clouds - I don't know. But it seems clear to me that A/ it doesn't get turned into steam, and B/ it absorbs a lot of energy before it becomes liquid water again.Or C/ you simply need more study.
If we take a quantity of water, add a small amount of energy, and output that water as vapour, which now lacks the hydrogen bonds holding it together - we know that energy is, allegedly, never created nor destroyed - so that energy is liberated in the process.What energy is liberated and in what process?!! The energy that you provided in the first place? Huh!
Hi Dread,
I rotated the crank to splash more water in the cylinder up onto the spark plug as it gets used and exploded off after a few discharges. This is a 2 stroke line trimmer engine and all ports are open, no carby or muffler. No valves. If you see vapour coming out, this is from the few discharges I had done. No vapour was put into the cylinder. Only liquid water was pumped into the cylinder as shown at the end of the previous setup video.
Regards,
Ossie
@all, S1R9A9M9 has released his coil design today to the water fuel 1978 Yahoo group. He says the video showing the 18hp B&S engine used this coil design and did not use an inverter or diodes. Check it out.Strange.. 14 gauge uninsulated wire for one of the windings ??? This sounds like a copper core instead of a iron core transformer. I will have to wrap my brain around the construction description. A picture would be helpful here. I suspect something is missing from the description as it does not make sense.
RD
Another useful doc
http://www.untoldmysteries.com/extraordinary/HARD-Evidence-CAR-ENGINE-on-Tap-WATER-PlasmaSpark-Hydrogen-Fuel-Free%20Energy-(539Kb)-untoldmysteries-com.pdf
Strange.. 14 gauge uninsulated wire for one of the windings ??? This sounds like a copper core instead of a iron core transformer. I will have to wrap my brain around the construction description. A picture would be helpful here. I suspect something is missing from the description as it does not make sense.
I am thinking that the design by Allcanadian on page 16 (??) of this thread using just a 12 volt iron core transformer, a diode and a cap is a much simpler method.
Got a bunch of parts from Ebay so a trip to RadioShaft and a bit of time should see if I can get a plasma spark. Got a 7hp Briggs Electric start engine to play with so at least my arm (or leg) will not get sore from starting. ::)
I would like to propose that, per Lucs request we keep this "on topic". So haveing seen the downloaded the PDF from S1R, we start a NEW topic for the discussion of his coil based S1r system. And keep THIS topic for the diode/bridge setup.
So i started one...LOL
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5112.msg111015.html#msg111015
Thanks TheOne
2 concerns I have with the pulstar
Will it handle the inverter current? The diagram shows the pulse circuit in line with the center conductor .
About the gap
Their Fac sheet says
Q: What gap setting do I use for Pulstar??
A: If your vehicle manual calls for a gap less than .040" then use the factory recommended settings. Under no circumstances should you set the gap to greater the .040", regardless of the manual setting. Back to top
Could it be that to big of a gap causes higher voltage in the plug and could burn the pulse circuit out?
I think I like the Torque Master better
I also think that the Torque Master design might help with oil fouling like Capicator had trouble with
gary
The short answer is yes and the short term result is a decay of the electrode
Hi All
One can buy a room humidifier that uses an ultrasonic transducer to transform water into vapor.
The unit I've seen uses about 15 watts to produce as much vapor as 1500 watts would boiling it.
The vapor from one of those could be injected into this unit.
Hi all. I have read with interest the past posts and I have a question, of the drawing back on post #653. Ossie shows in his drawing near the coil, a device labled C3, which I believe is a capacitor? What is the value and is it a cap? I have everything else just about wired up and I need this help.
Thanks, Mike
Hi all,
I?m not sure if this document went largely unnoticed (thanks, stanis!) but after a quick reading I?d like to raise a couple of issues that bothers me. Maybe someone part of that group can help me solving the main question I have, which is about the temperature of the running engine. Is it running cold or hot? I?ve seen that actual power is slightly reduced and I?ve read a lot of other information but I was fervidly and unsuccessfully looking for the answer to what I consider to be a fundamental question: Tout should tell us a lot and it is not even mentioned
Well, what bothers me also in connection to the above question is the fact that 800W (give or take) is clearly not enough to make the engine running hot (steam is surely out of question) so, why the condenser in the modified tank?! On the other hand, if the engine runs cold (let?s assume for the sake of debate that it violates the 2nd principle) then it will actually evacuate cold vapors and keep cooling up to the point of ice formation; tank structure doesn?t justify either as it would make more harm than good.
Please comment.
Many thanks,
Tinu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cInPBfJ2nT0
7 degree temp drop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cInPBfJ2nT0
7 degree temp drop
Does any one know if the ceramic formula for a spark plug is difficult to duplicate ? Chet
Actually I just realized something ceramic epoxies are used on the shuttle ITW developed this Tech for NASA years ago and marketed it later on and it is still available However they where fighting high temp this does not seem relevant here[temp]so casting a plug with a water jacket just got a lot easier
Hi all. Please HELP!
I am not an EE and not that good at auto mechanics either. But I am very excited about the work you all are doing on making a (standard) internal cumbustion engine run on water. It looks very doable and promising. I got so excited I wanted to try Ossi's experiment as posted on page 6 reply #235. I bought all the parts, except the strobe light which I could not find. Now, looking at the diagram and pictures it appears the battery + and - wires go into the strobe light and from there the + wire seems to go through the coil + side to the plug AND around the coil to the plug (with diodes in this path to protect against curent backflow (layman terms). The - wire looks like it goes to the coil - side then to ground at (effectively) the plug base. It also appears (in the video) that the strobe light creates a pulsing action that causes the plug to spark about every second. So, I decided since I did not have the strobe light, I could just wire up the test according to the digram and pictures, (making sure the diodes were wired in the same direction) then connect the - wire to the battery - terminal. To complete the circuit and create a spark, I would just tap the + wire to the + batery terminal. But alas when I tried this, no spark? Then, I disconnected the + wire from the + side of the coil and the plug, tapped the + wire to the + side of the battery, and wala, spark! In laymans terms, is that strobe light providing some magical separation of the current such that it goes to directly to the plug sometimes then breaks that current to go through the coil to the plug the next time? Thanks all of you for your research and for the help you provide to those of us not quite as talented as yourselves.
...............................
I mean no offence but all this talk of engines and sparkplugs seems very premature, kind
of like deciding how to cook your chicken before you have an egg...
.....................................................
Bumfuzzled,
Thanks for the quick response. According to the diagram (on pg 6 reply #235) the + wire goes from the strobe to the + side of coil. In that path, is a conection for another wire (with diodes) that goes to the plug cap. In the picture, that second wire actually comes from the + side of the coil to the plug cap. The coil output (large plug wire) also goes to the plug cap. I used 14g wire for the primary wiring and 10g wire to go from the coil output to the plug. I use gator clamps at the ends of all wires. My plug is a Champion CJ8, which the salesman told me was a non-resistor plug.
I agree that the strob simply simulates a cars distributor. But what I don't understand, is why when I wire up this test as shown in the diagram and pictures (without the strobe though) I get no spark when I tap the + side of the battery with the wire going to the coils + terminal. If I remove the wire going from the + coil terminal to the plug, I do get a (normal) spark. Totaly confused???
Hi all,
Does anyone find it interesting and somewhat coincedental that after many of us have advanced the technical understanding of how we can explode water quite simply and apply it to an engine here throughout this particular thread, that SR1 decides, after 3 years, to release detailed information that makes no sense whatsoever of supposedly how he does it, whilst at the same time making his intentions clear that he will be protecting his rights to what he believes he has discovered and invented.
We now find all sorts of threads have popped up because of this that are going in all sorts of direction based on the information he has provided? Very interesting indeed.....
Regards,
Ossie
Hi all,
Does anyone find it interesting and somewhat coincedental that after many of us have advanced the technical understanding of how we can explode water quite simply and apply it to an engine here throughout this particular thread, that SR1 decides, after 3 years, to release detailed information that makes no sense whatsoever of supposedly how he does it, whilst at the same time making his intentions clear that he will be protecting his rights to what he believes he has discovered and invented.
We now find all sorts of threads have popped up because of this that are going in all sorts of directions based on the information he has provided? Very interesting indeed.....
Regards,
Ossie
Hi all,
Does anyone find it interesting and somewhat coincidental that after many of us have advanced the technical understanding of how we can explode water quite simply and apply it to an engine here throughout this particular thread, that SR1 decides, after 3 years, to release detailed information that makes no sense whatsoever of supposedly how he does it, whilst at the same time making his intentions clear that he will be protecting his rights to what he believes he has discovered and invented.
We now find all sorts of threads have popped up because of this that are going in all sorts of directions based on the information he has provided? Very interesting indeed.....
Regards,
Ossie
Hello all,
I'm a novice, but I've been working on this project too. I fried my inverter and I've decided to use allCanadians cap charging circuit with my setup. I've got everything setup andI can charge my HV cap
to over a thousand volts easily enough. My problem is that the voltage leaks out of the cap very, very quickly. I know this is a newb question, but how do I dump that voltage quickly into my coil? I'm trying to be of use, but if this post is too off topic, delete it and I'll figure it out myself.
Thanks for any assistance.
The thing I found weird about it is the new coil have nothing to do of what S1r described on his setup. Also he talked about inverter on his setup. On his original setup you needed some kind of relay with 2 diodes.
Now you dont any of that just need one special coil.
Hopefully its not disinformation, we will see in his next video on youtube about his coil setup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cInPBfJ2nT0
7 degree temp drop
Ossie,
As much as I want to believe, and as much as I have learned from you and my own research, and as much as I am convinced that the process your are developing (that S1R says is not how he did it now!) has promise and that your engine and my engine will "run",........
I will simply say if (baring a Radiant Event from unknown process of huge purportions) a 3 coil transformer hand wound over a nail with nothing but a large limited DC current flowing through 2 of the coils (7 turn and 13 turn) encasing the 3rd coil (5 turn uninsulated!!!!!) feeding the HV pulse from the original coil to the plug.......If this can provide a 200X boost in output current through the spark gap, the shifting of timing past TDC and this huge flash, I'll eat that nail........I have also eaten crow in the past!
Sorry S1R and all concerned, even with expressed sincerity and helpfulness, all have exceeded the limits of my gullibility..BS me once, shame on you, BS me twice, shame on me!...I guess we will have to carry on like ol Frank Sanatra sang ......."I'll do it my way"...............
Ben
Was looking in my Summit racing catalog tonight and saw this coil. http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MSD%2D8261&N=700+115&autoview=sku
It puts out 45,000v at 2 amps. Is this possible? If so then why can't somebody just build a coil that puts out say 6 or 7 amps, even if you have to lose a lil HV. What am I missing here??
Temp. drop in an ICE would need to be determined. Certainly could be cooler due to lack of explosive heat, but friction still will create heat along the cylinder walls, and any bearing surface. So, IMO, no cold running ICE. ;D
Livingwaters08
@quiman
Congratulations, You are one of very few people to get this far :)
It's interesting that this effect(electrostatic cooling) is almost completely absent in the scientific literature but has been around for a very long time. The most noteable person to utilize this effect was Victor Schauberger some 80 years ago, many people equate Schauberger with water and the vortex but this was only a small part of his work. Victor stated he could produce 2 million volts potential from a single drop of water using capilliary tubes and a small suction source! and the resultant "cold expansion" could produce a large temperature drop. In the right context this cold expansion could also produce a perfect vacuum to power his devices . In our world we equate heat with expansion and cold with contraction but this seems to be a bit of an illusion as heat and cold are not "something" they are a condition of "something". If only heat expands and only cold contracts then why is our cold upper atmosphere at a low pressure? It should be very dense if it has supposedly contracted. We could also say radiating energy is expansive relative to the source and contractive relative to its target. In any case if heat is not produced I think it is safe to assume the forces involved are electrostatic in nature, as everything is.
@quiman & All
Interesting indeed as I have worked with electrostatic cooling for some 5 years now, it is still a thrill to see how many different ways it can be invoked.
For a starter for those that are not familiar with the effect you could start at http://www.rexresearch.com/blomgren/blomgren.htm and a google in the subject will bring up many interesting papers, it seems welding is familiar with the effect. I am also aware that NASA has and is doing research in this area.
Now a simple question, the cooling in the video appears to go down at a near constant rate, but once the arc is stopped it at once returns to the 77' mark, I'm not understanding why we wuld not see a ramp back up to the 77', if surfaces are cooled how do they at once obtain instant ambient temperature?
Thanks, forever interesting.....
@qiman
There are things happening in the spark which we don't fully understand. I was thinking, maybe the ir light from the ir temperature meter is being absorbed or manipulated or whatever, therefore it isn't showing the correct temperature. Maybe a low-tech temp-meter should be used, just to be sure it is really dropping.
Just a thought. 8)
(I see tinu asked the same)
I will simply say if (baring a Radiant Event from unknown process of huge purportions) a 3 coil transformer hand wound over a nail with nothing but a large limited DC current flowing through 2 of the coils (7 turn and 13 turn) encasing the 3rd coil (5 turn uninsulated!!!!!) feeding the HV pulse from the original coil to the plug.......If this can provide a 200X boost in output current through the spark gap, the shifting of timing past TDC and this huge flash, I'll eat that nail........I have also eaten crow in the past!
Ben - maybe you should get prepared to eat that nail ...
As I understand it - what is required (after the initial HV low current spark) is a lower voltage high current discharge. We don't actually know what voltage is needed for this secondary discharge - people are blowing up inverters because inverters are available off the shelf - but we haven't proved we need the voltage to be that high. Some, including myself, have speculated about connected the 12V directly to the spark plug for the high current discharge. (Remember - Graneau have given good science that it is Amps that blows the water apart - so at this stage in the process, unnessary voltage multiplication at the expense of current is counter-productive).
So very likely, a rudimentary coil of few turns is exactly what we need ... perhaps he is using multiple discharges at lower and lower volts (with higher and higher current) ...
Don't sneeze at this simple coil arrangement. In this thread we have no idea who the real information or the real disinformation is coming from. These coils are so easy a child could build - so try them!
Electrostatic cooling ... wow. I know Tinu made me out to be a bit of a fool, and that's fair enough. I don't suppose to know everything there is to be known about water and how it works. So whatever the right terminology - I am convinced the best energy source is in that low temperature liberation of whatever the hell it's going to be called once mainstream science starts to acknowledge it's existence...
To understand the effect you have to first realize that heat is space 'wiggling' in place. Then you also have to realize that an electric discharge is basically space realigning itself. So, a violent "moving" of space that allows the heat to instantly redistribute. Just like thunderbolts cool down...
I would like to point out one simple fact:Qiman - seriously thank you. I have been quoting the Graneau paper as being the source that states (with apparant authority) that it is the Ampere force that is involved. Maybe Graneau contains disinformation? I don't anyone at this stage - and the fact this paper is freely available makes it suspect (even though it seems to be waving abundant free energy under our noses).
I can make this effect with a variac or inverter DISCONNECTED/ISOLATED (both terminals isolated) from the capacitor so this rules out 100% for a fact that I am getting any extra high current surge from the power supply.
Some want to believe it can come from a capacitor...(once it is discharged).
What S1R shows with some inverter touching the plug off and on through a relay and then ignition coil off/on...whatever he is showing is NOT the same method as Luc has found. So some are automatically thinking that there is some surge from the power supply to make this spark based on Luc's circuit because of some crossed idea that it is supposed to be the same thing?
Also, has anyone bothered to scope the function of the diode?
I see something that seems to almost be deliberately IGNORED here. My power supply is 100% separated from the capacitor on BOTH terminals when the capacitor is discharged into the spark plug. That means 100% as an undeniable FACT, there is no current surge from my variac or inverter going to the coil when the HV pulse leaves the ignition coil.
So that leaves the capacitor as the only thing connected to the circuit as far as input. Once the capacitor is discharged, there isn't enough to provide any current surge! With a 3uf capacitor, that is 0.0384 joules of work possible (with no losses) if it is charged to 160volts. That is LESS THAN 0.04 watt seconds worth of energy...and if using a 3uf cap, once it is discharged and claiming that there is some current surge from the cap..again AFTER it is discharged will have some current surge that assists this spark...even with a 47uf cap at 160v, that is 0.6 watt seconds or 0.6 joules...and AFTER discharge there is enough for some mysterious current surge??? LOL Well, again...is this DISINFORMATION...there might be enough energy left in the cap AFTER discharge to may raise 1 hair on a flea's leg, but to assist in some robust spark on a plug like we're witnessing???
1. Why do I get the effect without any power supply connected to my cap?
2. AFTER the cap is discharged, why do I get the effect still and do you honestly think there is enough in the cap to give some current surge to cause this effect?
3. HOW DOES A DIODE WORK?
4. Think about VOLTAGE POTENTIAL..........where there is any kind of voltage...that potential is available EVERYWHERE instantaneously wherever it it is in contact with some kind of conductivity as long as it is not blocked. When the arc is happening, the HV potential is available at the exit of the HV diode...what does that tell you?
Hello all!
Only reading this forum for years, finally my first writing! :o
Probably a bit offtopic, so sorry for that first...but:
Did we finally (re-)discover the "holy grail" of electronics here?
Powering a single "device" with two powersources. From one drawn high voltage, low current- from the other low voltage, high current.
Here joining them together just before the airgap (sparkplug).
What if you join them together just before a coil? Or an ordinary light-bulb?
How would then the effective power accumulate (From voltage x current (U*I) as Ohm?s Law says)?
If we draw from the hv-source 10 watts (100volts*0.1amps), and also 10 watts from the lv-source (0.1volts*100amps), would the effective combined power on the lightbulb be 20 watts or 10000watts?
Could this somebody try to verify? With an ordinary lightbulb?
Is there even a possibility to "create" such small voltage x huge amperage powersource?
Or is this all garbage? If so, then sorry for that...
Another thing regarding this circuit:
I am certain, that a circuit utilising resonance (between coil and capacitor) would undoubtly need less amount of energy than not in resonance.
Anybody considered that yet? Is it even possible to utilize in this circuit?
Of course this would mean fixed RPM within an ICE, but it maybe a possility in an ICE/generator setup with fixed RPM...
All the best to all of you guys, especially the few who do actually build and test things!
Also, please note that not one ampre has been measured in the history of mankind.Thank you again! Light bulbs going on .. you are so right ... the maths of Power = Volts * Current is fairly solid though ... so I don't know how much this changes anything.
Meters have never measured one single amp.
The meter measures VOLTAGE through a known resistance and that tells you how many "amps" is there...still NO AMPERAGE HAS EVER BEEN MEASURED DIRECTLY....the meters measure nothing but VOLTAGE through different circumstances.
There are three conventional ways to transfer heat: Conduction, Convection, and Radiation. Now there is a fourth way, Electrostatic Cooling (ESC), that has been discovered and patented by Oscar C. Blomgren (Sr. & Jr.) and others. Negative ion probes are placed near a heated object, which is grounded. When high voltage is applied, there is a dramatic drop in temperature. This extremely simple system reduces or eliminates the need for other methods, and it uses very low power and is very efficient. It also facilitates heating when applied in reverse!
Thank you again! Light bulbs going on .. you are so right ... the maths of Power = Volts * Current is fairly solid though ... so I don't know how much this changes anything.
I know Tinu made me out to be a bit of a fool, and that's fair enough. I don't suppose to know everything there is to be known about water and how it works. So whatever the right terminology - I am convinced the best energy source is in that low temperature liberation of whatever the hell it's going to be called once mainstream science starts to acknowledge it's existence...
I'm not sure what you've been reading here - but your conclusions are nothing like what i've learned here ...
As far as i'm concerned, there is no secret power in the spark. Most people here seem to be using the brute force approach - maxium volts, maximum amps - large power input, for hopefully enough power output to drive a piston down a cylinder ...
The power i'm interested in is in the water. And it would appear to be in the molecular bonds holding water together in a liquid state. By atomising the water with a spark - the water suddenly has less molecular bond energy - and because energy is neither created nor destroyed - the energy that was previously holding the molecules together is transformed into violent kinetic energy. And apparantly the temperature drops too - which I don't understand yet. Heat is kinetic energy - but obviously there are different forms of kinetic energy. For example - it's possible to freeze something (reducing heat energy) and accelerate it (increasing kinetic energy) at the same time - so different effects are obviously at work here.
The subject of electrostatic cooling seems to be linked here. If objects can be suddenly cooled with the application of high voltage with minimal current - it would appear that massive overunity heat engines should be possible. I'm thinking this water arc effect is ultimately a heat engine. But I could be barking mad.
I'm just looking for the best strategy to build a device to test these wild theories ...
Hi bumfuzzled,
Aren't you making an assumption that it "puts out" this voltage and amperage? If it were so, wouldn't it be putting out 90 kilowatts? This is enough power for 9 or 10 houses if it was continuous. I think you will find that it uses a pulsed current of 2 amps for a 12 volt system and will put out 45,000 volts but at very little current. At 100% efficiency it will only put out 533uAmps (micoamps) at 45,000 volts. A microamp is one millionth of an amp...
Regards,
Ossie
Greendoor,
The input of the diode is touching the low voltage +. The output of the diode is touching the HV+. Anytime the voltage on the output side of a diode is HIGHER than the input, the DIODE REMAINS CLOSED.
When is there less voltage potential on the diode's output than the input side? When does the voltage drop below the input side? When the cap is discharged, think about how how much is left and what that diode is.
When does the other side of the diode drop BELOW the input side of the diode in order to open that diode?
Until then....the diode remains closed.
@xbox hacker
Which would be why capacitor70 circuit looks as it does,so if I was to use your circuit with an automotive coil,then the grounding issue will not be a problem,correct?
Do you want to start with a mower or a car?
With a mower you need to lose the magneto(if you have -VE), and replace it with a pickup like cap70, then use a automotive ignition coil with + to + and pulse the - from the pick up...you should get +VE :D
Car...just make sure the coil has the + on the + and you should be good to go.
I will be putting the pickup setup on my motor this weekend (or sooner ;)) But ofcourse that will change the timeing, so that might take a bit to get it right.
Yes...then no problems... ;D
Hi Gang,
Boy we have a fiesty, honest and deep thinking group here. In spite of BS and doubts, I am continuing working on my modified motor to test all this out. Motor is finished, now have to mount, flywheel, electronics, timing, plumbing for water.....Lot of work even trying to get a motor to run and I'm trying to do it in a 6th floor condo and my closet shop!...
I have lots of pictures of head construction, secondary injection port, etc. But one pic. attached here is good enough for now.
Ben
Do you want to start with a mower or a car?
With a mower you need to lose the magneto(if you have -VE), and replace it with a pickup like cap70, then use a automotive ignition coil with + to + and pulse the - from the pick up...you should get +VEÂ :D
Car...just make sure the coil has the + on the + and you should be good to go.
I will be putting the pickup setup on my motor this weekend (or sooner ;)) But ofcourse that will change the timeing, so that might take a bit to get it right.
Yes...then no problems... ;D
Also, please note that not one ampre has been measured in the history of mankind.??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Meters have never measured one single amp.
The meter measures VOLTAGE through a known resistance and that tells you how many "amps" is there...still NO AMPERAGE HAS EVER BEEN MEASURED DIRECTLY....the meters measure nothing but VOLTAGE through different circumstances.
@hydrocontrol: You can pick up an old car on craigslist for under $200 ..LOL And as for the mower motor, harbor freight has one that is BRAND NEW 5HP vertical shaft for $99, just the other day (intown store) PULL START :P
Then you can place it on a cinder block and hold it with your hands while someone starts it... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
@goldenequity: I had thought about that, but i just want to get it to "pickup" first...lol Also i was think about a post i saw sometime ago, about useing the piston top as the ground point...gonna try that too ;D
Pull start engine for experimenting.. naw..
A video that looks very much like Graneu experiment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O27hq1NC_U
@hydrocontrolI was confused before. I dug out my engine and it is a electric start Tecumseh 6hp (not Briggs) with a side PTO that appears to be 4:1. That would mean that all I would have to do is add a wheel to the PTO that has two magnets on it to trigger an external plasma ignition setup. This way I can get rid of the ghost spark and still adjust the timing. This may work.
Can't you use some sort of small induction coil on the original sparkplug cable to trigger the spark?
or are you removing the original ignition system from the motor for less dragg?
or wil this also lead to a ghost spark?
I am degreed in Physics, but not an electronics guru by any stretch of the imagination, but even my 6th grade science teacher showed this in his electricity experiment, that electricity follows the path of least resistance. Whether it is a straight piece of wire or coiled up a billion times, isn't BARE WIRE essentially a DEAD SHORT between windings, and therefore no different than a straight piece of wire (not counting the resistance per foot of copper)? That was a rhetorical statement... LOL
.
.
<snip>
.
.
Again, I am not an electronics guru, but doesn't electricity travel at the same speed, regardless as to what it is traveling through? Regards,
Geo
Back ON Topic: For this reason, we need to continue on our current path and KEEP FOCUSED. I believe we are close to the next steps. As Luc has stated all along, we need to keep this all Public Domain for the betterment of us all. The group of people I am working with have already agreed to make everything we do, success, failures and achievements totally PUBLIC for everyone here, on other forums and to have it available to everyone! This is too important to keep any of it secret!You are right. It would be great if we can get this going. Some times things need to get shaken up.
Regards,
Geo
We would know that there was a break in a cable somewhere which could be hundreds of metres long, and to trace that we would have to take a 1m peice of that specific co-ax, and using a box called a Lanalizer, work out the Velocity Propogation of a signal over that 1m piece of co-ax. Once we knew it's vp, we could then send a signal down the network cable, and see how long it took for a reflection to occur (which is where there was a break in the cable - normally the terminators on the end of the cable would absorb this and keep the signal noise to an acceptable level), and using the two we could work out how far down the wire to a reasonable degree of accuracy the break was. Different mixes of copper/gold etc propogate at different rates. It's probably a moot point in this application as the differences are small, but they are there.The local electronics store actually has this cool device that you hook up one end of a cable and it tells you exactly how long the cable is down to the fractions of inches just for the purpose of finding breaks in cables. Of course it did cost $ 400.00 but it was pretty cool.
Shiver
Whether it is a straight piece of wire or coiled up a billion times, isn't BARE WIRE essentially a DEAD SHORT between windings, and therefore no different than a straight piece of wire (not counting the resistance per foot of copper)? That was a rhetorical statement... LOLIn conventional current yes, Tesla said his radiant energy was based on "surface area", the voltage rise based on sq/in's of conductor ;)
Then a nail just thrown in the air space of the coil as opposed to the wire being wound tightly around the nail, also would be a dead short across the bare wire windings as it simply laid on top of the bare wire windings. Certainly one of those conditions would cause a dead short!This is a loose coupling and it may be done for a very good reason and if you model the magnetic field you may find he is looking for the "edge" of the field where the rate of change is highest in a "static" field in oscillation within itself--- there is no collapse.
Again, I am not an electronics guru, but doesn't electricity travel at the same speed, regardless as to what it is traveling through?I guess that might depend on whether the energy travelled "through" or "on the surface" of the conductor. As well if the magnetic field of a conventional current was not the energy carrier but a means for another energy to move on the current in an oscillitory manner then the speed limitation may not apply. If you want to do extraordinary things you have to do things out of the ordinary.
voltage vs. current is always a design flavour.
There is no direction in ohms law. With the same proof you did I will state now that nobody ever measured a single volt.
Volt is only derived from the current which is caused by conecting a voltage to a given resistor...
Hi All,
Because it seems that people, who may or may not lack experience in electronics, are having trouble building and replicating the exploding water effect in previously described and shown devices, I have designed, built and tested what I believe to be a very simple to build device that most people can construct themselves at home that is powered only by a small square 9V battery that is commonly used in smoke alarms. I believe even kids can make this. Please see my latest video here:
http://www.youtube.com/m1a9r9s9
The purpose of this device is not to be able to power your car on water with it but simply to allow everyone to see for themselves and show others how water can directly explode on demand with little energy input. The device produces the required discharge in the spark plug about every 1 second and uses about 100-150ma from the 9V battery. At this current level the battery won't last too long but it is fine for demonstrations. For longer and continuous runs, just use a small 12V sealed lead acid battery of say 2 A/Hs.
Please see the circuit diagram and some pictures attached below.
All that is required to build this device is the following.
- A 12V, 150ma Security Xenon Strobe Light. Available from electronic and security stores. Color does not matter!
- An old car ignition coil. Available from automobile wreckers.
- A non resistor spark plug. Available from auto shops. Must not have a resistor in it!
- Five 1N5404 diodes or five large rectifying diodes. Part number doesn't really matter. Avaliable from electronic shops.
- A 9 volt battery. The same as used in smoke alarms. Available from anywhere.
- Some hook up wire.
- Basic tools including a soldering iron and some solder.
- Handheld water sprayer filled with water.
That's all folks!!
Please build this and show it to your friends, family, your teachers, professors, work mates anyone and everyone who can't believe that water can explode. Help your kids build this as their school science fair project. Just build it for fun!
On another note, my very good friend Ben has been doing some great research on this process as there is surprisingly quite a bit in the internet about it. He has found some references claiming that the energy released, when the water apparently explodes, is one thousand times the input energy required to cause the explosion. He has found some great info out about what may actually be happening but I will leave it to him to share if he gets time.
Enjoy!
Regards,
Ossie
I once connected the charging side of a bedini wheel and charged up a bank of capacitors to 100+ Volts doing arc tests with graphite brushes in a 1 ounce shot glass of olive oil, the discharge sparks were great until I noticed no more spark because the wire came off the cap and by the time I connected it back the voltage had climbed to over 1,000 Volts and KABOOM!!! The oil shot up nearly 6 feet high and with a loud sound so I have no doubt someone could run an engine if there's enough engineering and power :)
@Ben: Just curious....what about timing and ignition firing?
A video that looks very much like Graneu experiment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O27hq1NC_U
Hi Everyone,
This is both ON TOPIC and sort of OFF TOPIC
ON TOPIC: We need to continue our present direction in designing, improving and applying the plasma spark to water to release the energy in it necessary to drive a piston down in an internal combustion engine, AS WELL AS THE MULTITUDE OF OTHER APPLICATIONS to which this technology can be applied. We are definitely on to something here with LUC, capacitor70, Ossie, XBox, myself and others actually doing experiments and coming up with real results.
Since Luc started this thread, many positive results and forward direction has occurred. I will be doing more of my own tests this weekend on testing a variation of the plasma circuits in here already and will post all results. We are definitely on the right course of action because all of a sudden, S1R is coming out of the woodwork again, I believe to still attempt to lay claim to this idea, even though it was actually done in the 1950's by Adam Crawford in Scotland!
I truly believe S1R found something about Adam Crawford and then created a forum 3 years ago so the likes of us can actually figure it out for him.
Slightly OFF TOPIC:
I am not calling anyone a LIAR, but a few things don't add up. S1R's write up description and posts on the Yahoo Waterfuel forum said the main coil was uninsulated BARE COPPER WIRE, and two coils using stranded insulated wire.
I am degreed in Physics, but not an electronics guru by any stretch of the imagination, but even my 6th grade science teacher showed this in his electricity experiment, that electricity follows the path of least resistance. Whether it is a straight piece of wire or coiled up a billion times, isn't BARE WIRE essentially a DEAD SHORT between windings, and therefore no different than a straight piece of wire (not counting the resistance per foot of copper)? That was a rhetorical statement... LOL
Then today, S1R posted on the Yahoo Waterfuel forum, "the main coil has black tape on it, as well as "the other black coil." The original statement, however said the other 2 coils were insulated stranded wire. Looking at SIR's own picture very closely, shows the black coils are NOT black tape covering BARE WIRES ( I still can't get over the bare wire thing... LOL), but looks like standard factory insulated wire.
OK, pick a story and go with it, S1R!
Then a nail just thrown in the air space of the coil as opposed to the wire being wound tightly around the nail, also would be a dead short across the bare wire windings as it simply laid on top of the bare wire windings. Certainly one of those conditions would cause a dead short!
Years ago, I had a bad ignition coil on my car. The primary showed 1 Ohm resistance which was OK and within the manufacturer's specifications. The secondary coil however measured only 4K Ohms, but should have been on the order of 10K to 12K ohms, far below manufacturer's specifications. That meant a some of the secondary windings burned (melted) and created a short between the windings resulting in greatly reduced resistance.
Then we have the best statement of all: The coils slowed down the electricity enough so that the timing on the Briggs and Straton engine (funny how Briggs and Straton abbreviated is BS) did not have to be changed.
Again, I am not an electronics guru, but doesn't electricity travel at the same speed, regardless as to what it is traveling through? I do know there are timer/delay circuits one can design and create, but isn't that simply using components that allow for charge/discharge times and other components that vary the time of delivery of the electricity, but doesn't change the actual speed of electricity itself? Sorry, rhetorical again! LOL
Regardless, these three coils certainly cannot "slow down" the speed of electricity to that extent!
OK, so in summation, we have Bare Copper Wire as a main coil, but then recanted to being covered in black tape, the other black coil also having black tape around it. But S1R's original description said the 2nd and 3rd coils were insulated stranded wire, but then "the inventor's" own picture clearly showing otherwise (unless he's the best in the world at wrapping black tape around a wire to look exactly like factory made insulation), we have an inverter, but not really, we have 3 coils wound so that they "slow down" electricity enough to the extent where adjusting the timing on a BS engine (I love that) wasn't necessary, etc., etc., etc...
Again, I am not calling anyone a LIAR, but... draw your own conclusions and decide for yourself, but I am literally ROFLMFAO!
Back ON Topic: For this reason, we need to continue on our current path and KEEP FOCUSED. I believe we are close to the next steps. As Luc has stated all along, we need to keep this all Public Domain for the betterment of us all. The group of people I am working with have already agreed to make everything we do, success, failures and achievements totally PUBLIC for everyone here, on other forums and to have it available to everyone! This is too important to keep any of it secret!
Regards,
Geo
Great work Paul, I'm glad to see you doing this. Bedini oscillators are the way to go...much faster charging. The way you are charging the cap can give you different results when discharging. Conventional thinking is that you need electrons piling on plates to charge a cap...that incorrect viewpoint is detrimental to sanity and has no place in science and electrical engineering...and I mention this in response to someone else.
------------------------------
Check this out please, everyone:
"Read pages 26-29 of this document:
Eric Dollard Notes on Dielectricity and Capacitance.
Eric Dollard Notes (1986--1991)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/73155/Eric-Dollard-Notes-19861991
"The misconception that capacitance is the accumulation of electrons has seriously distorted our view of dielectric phenomena.""
------------------------------
I agree with Luc that more effort needs to be put on the water and not just getting the spark...but what everyone is missing and this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whatever in the world S1R is up to, but the fuel you're putting into the coil is the capacitor's discharge-----WHAT CHARGED THE CAP---...that is also where at least some exploration needs to take place.
1. Electrons from closed loop hot electron current is NOT what charges a cap and isn't even required.
2. Voltage Potential alone can charge a cap without current.
3. A closed loop hot current connection will charge a cap but that doesn't mean it is from electron piling.
4. The discharge of capacitors depending on how they are charged make a difference in the effects depending on application...just like how a battery is charged cold or hot...makes a difference in what it runs...bulbs are brighter white than if charged with hot current, etc...
5. Charge a cap with a single wire connected to its terminals...discharge it..effects are different than if you charged it with "current."
Anyway, just something to consider.
In conventional current yes, Tesla said his radiant energy was based on "surface area", the voltage rise based on sq/in's of conductor
Just a simple question:
Why does't rain in a thunderstorm cause a giant explosion?
Just a simple question:@robbie47
Why does't rain in a thunderstorm cause a giant explosion?
Just a simple question:
Why does't rain in a thunderstorm cause a giant explosion?
Someone left the inverter unplugged......@xbox hacker
Again, I am not an electronics guru, but doesn't electricity travel at the same speed, regardless as to what it is traveling through? I do know there are timer/delay circuits one can design and create, but isn't that simply using components that allow for charge/discharge times and other components that vary the time of delivery of the electricity, but doesn't change the actual speed of electricity itself? Sorry, rhetorical again! LOL
Regardless, these three coils certainly cannot "slow down" the speed of electricity to that extent!
@xbox hacker
This is indeed the pursuit of science? What?
Ummm...its a joke...like HAHA, you know?@xbox
The strike from the upper atmosphere to the earth is similar to the anode to cathode of a spark plug in the experiments of this thread. The problem is that no one will realize that the action will not invoke a chain reaction. In other words it is totally localized around the event. The energy in a lighting strike is far in excess of the wildest dreams of any experimenter and yet it will not cause a spontaneous combustion or disassociation of water molecules past the periphery of the primary strike.
If mother nature can not do it with the power she has then you have little hope of mortal man doing it. If it were possible for a chain reaction (excitation) of non-localized water molecules, then I feel the earth would not be here today.
If you mean there is no "flame front" or "flame propagation" as with gasoline then I agree, whatever is directly hit by the plasma arc is the only thing affected. I also agree that alot of people don't realize that. I don't think a conventional spark plug is gonna cut it either. It's gonna have to be a spark plug/injector combo for direct injection, sort of like a diesel.@bumfuzzled
Big discharge area with a very significant amount of input energy to support it.
So went to harbor freight and bought a "IGNITION TRAK ENGINE IGNITION TESTER". Its for testing normal spark under pressure, it has a gauge, but not with psi graduations.
(http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/93700-93799/93795.gif)
Got my setup hooked up to it, put a little pressure on it and..... the needle MOVED when the plasma occured!!!! Displacing the pressure in the tube! To give you a visual aid, the needle was in the middle of the red area, when the plasma occurred it shot the needle to almost the end of the red. It did go back down very shortly after, but it went right back to the start spot. The funny thing is that i was testing the device with a "normal" spark...any pressure in the yellow or higher i can not get any spark at all. It only works in the red for my magneto on the B&S. I think i need a good Accel coil...crank up the power!
Interesting, but FYI, I have the Accel Super Stack coil, can't say it is produced any better results than the others.
Regards, Larry
I thought Accel coil would have more HV then a mower magneto...
True, but I though you had used a regular ignition coil to produce you previous plasma shots that you've shown. Are you talking about a special Accel coil for mower's?
Maybe that's why your ignition tester is producing weird results due to using a magneto instead of ignition coil.
The plasma shot that i used for my forum avatar, is from my design and a magneto form a B&S engine. I made a pickup like Cap70 did and will put it on the engine to trigger a standard ignition coil...then i might not have to spend $40 for a Accel coil.
I
Wow its odd how things go full circle: If the plasma won't "ignite" water it doesn't directly touch... Then are we back to the Meyer patents?... A water mist injecting, plasma -arc generating "plug" that ignites electrolyzer-created HHO to get it done with sufficient power and authority? The "exploding" water (or whatever its doing, lol) acts as the energy catalyst that the HHO would seem to need to be the most efficient? ...And thus manageable amounts of HHO are used and not the huge amounts that many predict are required to power a vehicle (...and that Meyer's cell obviously could not deliver alone).
Yes indeed. you appear to understand and seem to have a handle on fact. Big discharge area with a very significant amount of input energy to support it.
The reaction id far from what a carbon based fuel flame front is. It is a localized condition and even though it results in a very specific and energetic response, it only responds to the area of excitation. This is a very important bit of science knowledge, but its not the manna from heaven for ICE engines.
IF you beleive the whole "Big Oil" "Government Conspiracy" theories, wouldn't that serve as more of an incentive to make this work? People could give up now and say "what's the point?" or they could continue down the current path. If you beleived in that theory, I would have thought giving up would be the last thing you would want to do? I know you're not talking about giving up entirely and I know very little about the idea of powering an ICE on compressed air, but using water to power a compressor to produce air to use in a car sounds rather inefficient compared to harnessing the power at the source.
using water to power a compressor to produce air to use in a car sounds rather inefficient compared to harnessing the power at the source.
The strike from the upper atmosphere to the earth is similar to the anode to cathode of a spark plug in the experiments of this thread. The problem is that no one will realize that the action will not invoke a chain reaction. In other words it is totally localized around the event. The energy in a lighting strike is far in excess of the wildest dreams of any experimenter and yet it will not cause a spontaneous combustion or disassociation of water molecules past the periphery of the primary strike.
If mother nature can not do it with the power she has then you have little hope of mortal man doing it. If it were possible for a chain reaction (excitation) of non-localized water molecules, then I feel the earth would not be here today.
Yes, lets keep this thread on topic.
I am using Luc's diagram, it is easy to understand. I would appreciate it if others would take notice of how much clearer Luc's diagram is vs Capacitor70's diagram (this is the only diagram from cap70 that I know of http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3977.0;attach=24661;image).
Input needed. How can I improve this setup to start getting results like Capacitor70 is getting?
Yes, lets keep this thread on topic.
I am using Luc's diagram, it is easy to understand. I would appreciate it if others would take notice of how much clearer Luc's diagram is vs Capacitor70's diagram (this is the only diagram from cap70 that I know of http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3977.0;attach=24661;image). What is Mian? What is +ve? What does the device really look like? What gauge magnet wire? How the hell am I suppose to wrap one coil around a nail and another around that coil? How is this ever suppose to work? What does the rest of the circuit look like? What ignition coil is he using? We need details. The info that is given does not impress me as credibile, please provide info so I can duplicate the work you have done.
I am getting plasma sparks but there is no indication of water having positive influence. There is no burst, there is only a strong spark, like a small lightning bolt.
The only thing that I am doing differently is that I am using wall current instead of an inverter, I have one 95w light bulb on one AC lead, and I have a fuse (2.5a currently) on the positive lead from the rectifier. With the new clean spark plug that I am using, the bulb was needed to keep my fuse from blowing.
Input needed. How can I improve this setup to start getting results like Capacitor70 is getting?
You ARE going to have problems with rusting & corrosion
You ARE going to have problems with hydraulicing (cylinders jamming when filled with water)
You ARE going to have problems with freezing in winter (unless you start burning hydrogen - back to electrolysers and different technologies that might yet work)
You ARE going to have problems with Big Oil IF you get in their way
You ARE going to have problems with Big Government IF they start to lose tax revenue
@all: I really go with hydro. Stop debating in this thread about things which don't belong here (politics, is OU possible, use hydrogen, blabla) and stay focused. These threads here are about water arc systems and how to put them in a working system!
Don't understand me wrong. I think it's good to debate about it, but please not here, as otherwise the thread gets really disgusting to follow, if one is just interested in the water arc related topics...
About the lightning , rain, and it's power (which is actually the big version of what we build in small):
Well up until today, science does not fully understand what exactly happens on a lighting strike. For there's one problem: You can easily calculate the power available from the clouds, and you will be astonished, this is not that much. And what puzzles scientists until now is the fact, that the lighting develops more power than actually should be availabe according to the calculations...(some try to explain it for example by an electron avalanche that is happening)
And everbody that says a lighting does only develop power directly in the discharge, I recommend standing about 20m from a lighting bolt. It will throw you away from the blast wave (a friend of mine, happened this, a lighting stroke about 15m from the house...All windows gone and as he said a tremendous strong shockwave...)
And everbody that says a lighting does only develop power directly in the discharge, I recommend standing about 20m from a lighting bolt. It will throw you away from the blast wave (a friend of mine, happened this, a lighting stroke about 15m from the house...All windows gone and as he said a tremendous strong shockwave...)
Not to detour off topic again but ...<snip>
Thanks Mr Copperpot ;D
Not to detour off topic again...I suggest reading the meyer notes, if you haven't done so, they give you all the details you need.
Thanks Mr Copperpot ;D
Regarding the rectifier diode, to qualify further, see attachment.
Shiver
Hi Gyula,
That's actually the page that I copied the image from! Is it true though that the existing version is only allowing half of the wave?
Shiver
Hi Shiver,
Lol... but I do not seem to find that image you copied, where is that page exactly?
rgds, Gyula
It's the 7th Image down, underneath which it says "Full-wave bridge rectifier".
I understand what you're saying about in series or in parallel, but I don't know how that's expressed in these diagrams as they're new to me.
Cheers
Shiver
...
@gyla,
that second parallel diode is not part of the rectifier, and it is not Shiver's diagram, it is geo's. that second parallel diode is for protection in case the long series diode string should break down, it will "short" the negative pulse to gnd rather than blowing up the inverter. this is basic electronics stuff.
That spark plug is just about as big as the motor!! lol I'm waiting on bigger amperage diodes to get here so I can continue with mine. I'm thinking about adding a spark plug or two to the old kohler I'm testing with but I'm already having trouble with the starter draining the power to the ignition system, having to put a separate battery on the coil and points.
@Xbox Hacker
Over kill!!! not if it runs on water!!
Yes it is out of purportion but if you look inside, it is just a nice plasma plug/area......I hope it works as ugly as it looks!!!!!
Remember, the plasma doesn't spread out, what is in the ball is what you get so in my case, bigger ball works better...I hope.
Good idea using separate batteries.......
Ben
We still need to figure out why the plasma arcs are sporadic even though we observed the HV spark every time. Any help, ideas, and thoughts are welcome!
Regards,
Geo
Exactly, that's why I just added a plug to mine. I put it right on the edge of the squish area hoping it'll swirl the water right onto the plug as the piston comes up. I really think a very small combustion chamber would help alot too. I believe that lil motor you've got there will run. I forgot to take a pic after I bored the hole so the arrow is pointing to where the new hole is. The new plug is on the right in the second pic.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/NXSLT1/extraplug.jpg)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/NXSLT1/newplug.jpg)
Several of you are way ahead of me on engine modifications already. I'm still working on a high speed plasma spark and did a small test by confining the spark and topping it with a marble. The video shows the water does make a difference in actual work energy. I noticed the 'pulse' was also able to shake bits of dust loose from the rafters, I would see this float down after a test with the open ended chamber. You can feel this pulse if you hold you hand a foot away. Here is the video of my brief test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yn0AOUnOU
RD
F**king fantastic video mate!!! that amount of movement with NO compression.. cant wait to see what 10.5:1 will do in a car engine... or 8.5:1 with 13psi of boost! As i asked in the video, can you give us a rundown of your specs? What size inverter, is it using straight AC or rectified DC first? how many volts are you getting at the plug end? how many diodes and what specs?
I have a feeling geovels (and my) inconsistent plasma sparks are due to lack of voltage and/or incorrect wave form (half rectified vs straight ac).
Several of you are way ahead of me on engine modifications already. I'm still working on a high speed plasma spark and did a small test by confining the spark and topping it with a marble. The video shows the water does make a difference in actual work energy. I noticed the 'pulse' was also able to shake bits of dust loose from the rafters, I would see this float down after a test with the open ended chamber. You can feel this pulse if you hold you hand a foot away. Here is the video of my brief test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yn0AOUnOU
RD
Hi Bulmfuz,
If you would drill and tap a small 1/8 hole betwen those two plugs, put a 1/8 injector tube in it, give or take, put a small nozzle/restrictor to spray it on the outlet, feed water to it with a high pressure check valve so water could go/suck in with the down stroke, but nothing go out on the upstroke, needle valve it so you could control total amount/stroke, I think you could have a very nice injector on that B&S engine. I plan to do that on my next SMALLER engine. You need solid steel or brass up to the check valve, then any type of tubing after that.
Ben
Hi RD,
I would like to commend you on this video and make a note to others that it is indeed a marble and not a foam ball that you are lifting with a water explosion. A marble does have considerable mass and requires REAL power to be lifted. Such video examples proving the proof of concept can only help in our endevour to gain awareness of this process in an effort to further it's development.
Regards,
Ossie
@ninjadaniel
Inconsistent sparks could possibly be from high impedance causing the coil secondary coil to short to its core to ground. Check that the HV lead is all the way into the coil, and the the resistance is low to the plug and the gap is not too wide. One should never fire the coil without the HV wire inserted to a plug or to ground. If you fire the coil without a HV wire in it, the HV will jump across the fine secondary windings to the core and burn its insulation. Check the resistance of the secondary and see if it is less that you started. Should be around 10 to 12k ohms. If less, it could mean the secondary HV winding is shorting to its core.
tishatang
It takes a few milliseconds to charge up fully.
Regards,
Geo
I would like to commend you on this video and make a note to others that it is indeed a marble and not a foam ball that you are lifting with a water explosion. A marble does have considerable mass and requires REAL power to be lifted. Such video examples proving the proof of concept can only help in our endevour to gain awareness of this process in an effort to further it's development.
Luc,
Great Vid. Can't find the circuit link, please post.
Thanks.
D.
Yes I see, I wasn't thinking along a time line but I understand now.
@Retrod
Thanks for demonstrating the existence of real motive power. It's something I've been hoping for all along in this thread, and is very encouraging news indeed.
Hi K4zep,
Isn't the operating RPM of the Fox 78 far higher than the burst RPM of the grinding wheel? Also, I've had great difficulty with severe vibration in similar high RPM setups.
Richard
Hi all,
Instead of trying to convert or build a rotation motor, operated by the Water Power Effect (WPE), maybe consider to produce electric power directly by WPE in closed cell, without moving parts, by using photoelectric effect and/or piezoelectric effect. This can let you skip over problems like timing etc.
Regards,
Zayith
Your welcome, it was fun! Keep in mind that today we are using a simple spark to open a plasma channel. Take a look at this video and you will see how a UV laser can also be used in place of a spark to open that channel! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tJF3qBWyUk
A 'blu-ray' laser comes to mind as a possible test mule. If we find multiple channels are needed in sequence or simultaneously this could be an avenue of research. Just food for thought to bookmark for the future.
RD
Has anyone acces to a very high speed camera? Would be cool to see the spark at 1000fps.
Over a WaterFuel1978, they all seem to have an isolating transformer to protect their inverter. Can you add an isolating transformer to you diagram?
I think Luc's current design eliminates the need for it because the inverter is not in the circuit when the relay switches.
I'm new here, but I have some experience with Chemistry and Electronics and would very much like to help out and get water working as an automotive fuel. I have a question for those with more experience here before I get my garage up and running as a water burning laboratory. In order to burn, water is going to need to react with some other chemical. Does anyone have any ideas about what chemical water might be reacting with in this highly impressive reaction? Potential chemicals include nitrogen and oxygen in the atmosphere, or perhaps even carbon dioxide. And once water burns, it must be ending up as some new chemical byproducts, ones presumably at a lower energy state than water (which conventional science tells us is already in a very low energy state). Does anyone have any idea what byproducts burned water might be turning into? This will help me a lot with the experiments I perform. I'm also a little bit nervous about unleashing too much of a reaction, one that would spill over into nearby sources of water such as the creek that runs past my home. I don't want it become a fuse that blows up the oceans! We've all read Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle, right?
Well somebody in the yahoo groups forum just found this patent US 6553981 (get it at www.pat2pdf.org (http://www.pat2pdf.org))
Well, it's exactly what we have here...
It even describes the different spark plug configurations and also different circuits versions (e.g. Circuits without the diodes and just with the coils for blocking, or with snubbers, etc, ...)
See one example here (They just have a CDI System for ignition):
Ben,
Great work. Please continue if possible. You have spend all this time to get this far you might as well play with it a bit to get it to run continuously. You may find something along the way that might improve things. Once you get it running stable you might be able to get a plasma spark with an input energy below 700 watts.
Thoughts to ponder. What if it is not a linear relationship. What if it gets more efficient the larger the engine you have or the more cylinders you have ?
Wow! Great work Luc. You continue to impress and amaze ;)
Sry to go off-topic but this is important imo:
Regarding lasers: I and several people i know in the same line of work who spent alot of time around them have gotten cataracts way before our times. At age 40, i had to have both eyes done. The surgery is no big deal but it is a nuisance to always have to use reading glasses now for close work, when before my eyesight was always 20/20 (the plastic lenses wont bend to focus like the "originals" did). Lasers can take 50 years off the life of your natural lenses so be careful around them ;)
If you suspect you might be getting cataracts, find a microscope and look into it: They will be seen reflected back as "amoeba" like blobs looking somewhat like a "hair ball", lol. Like i said its not terrible to get them fixed with implants but it costs as much as $12k per eye to have it done in the US and if you don't have insurance....
Incidences of cataracts have risen greatly in the last 20 years especially among younger people. I never looked at a laser directly: But backscatter can be bad enough over time.
Luc,
Over a WaterFuel1978, they all seem to have an isolating transformer to protect their inverter. Can you add an isolating transformer to you diagram?
Darren
hello everyone,
i have been following GoToLuc's thread from the beginning and am learning a lot and keeping very interested.
has anyone with a plasma cutter tried to add some water in the plasma? i have access to a cutter, but lack the cahones.
i think i am going to build a small motor with GoToLuc's latest schematic for my daughter's science fair next spring. i was also thinking maybe a transparent material so spectators could see (maybe behind a welding helmet) what is happening. i have access to an old motorcycle coil that has two terminals that go to the plugs and have picked up a strobe on ebay. maybe i can get help with the schematic for two spark plugs?
also, count me in as you CAD guy, Luc. i am sure we are gonna need drawings once we get to a certain point.
It seems as if I have a short circuit anytime rectifier is hooked up.Anyone have ideas?
No sir,I didnt see a resistor in Lucs circuit.Like I said,I am very new to electronics,what kind of resistor would I need?Thanks alot.
It seems as if I have a short circuit anytime rectifier is hooked up.Anyone have ideas?Broken diodes or wrong polarity?
@kezep
Please do not get discouraged. There are still things to explore. In Papp's later patent, he mentions the use of three impulse firings on the downstroke separated by 60 degrees. I assume that means TDC then 60 degrees and finally, 120 degrees. We are not dealing with combustion here. Papp must have realized it that by multiple pulses, it would keep driving the piston down? The early patent describes using deoxygenated water plus chorine besides noble gases as the "fuel". He also used a glow plug to preheat the charge.
Go here and read the early patent # 3670494
http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl
I posted a new thread regarding Papp as it relates to water as fuel here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5154.0.html
I got no response. Evidently, no one wants to bother to see the relationship to the Papp engine and a water for fuel engine we are discussing.
I guess I am spitting in the wind, or everyone by now knows I am getting senile in my old age.
Tishatang
@kezep
Please do not get discouraged. There are still things to explore. In Papp's later patent, he mentions the use of three impulse firings on the downstroke separated by 60 degrees. I assume that means TDC then 60 degrees and finally, 120 degrees. We are not dealing with combustion here. Papp must have realized it that by multiple pulses, it would keep driving the piston down? The early patent describes using deoxygenated water plus chorine besides noble gases as the "fuel". He also used a glow plug to preheat the charge.
Go here and read the early patent # 3670494
http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl
I posted a new thread regarding Papp as it relates to water as fuel here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5154.0.html
I got no response. Evidently, no one wants to bother to see the relationship to the Papp engine and a water for fuel engine we are discussing.
I guess I am spitting in the wind, or everyone by now knows I am getting senile in my old age.
Tishatang
Well,I finally got my parts today,tried lucs circuit,and x box hackers.Obviously something went awry,in xboxs,I got no spark at all,in lucs my inverter would trip internally anytime it was hooked to the rectifier.The inverter itself works fine,I used it on several different things,it is a 400 watt 110 volt.The rectifier is a 50 amp 1000 volt rectifier.It seems as if I have a short circuit anytime rectifier is hooked up.Anyone have ideas?Thanks in advance,I am trying to learn this.....BTW,if anyone else is in the same boat as me in electronics,here is a great learning tool..... http://www.allaboutcircuits.com .For the red light I am getting..the manual says....THE RED LED INDICATOR WILL TURN ON, AND THE INVERTER WILL TURN ITSELF OFF AUTOMATICALLY IF:
1) THE CONTINUOUS DRAW OF THE EQUIPMENT BEING OPERATED SHOULD EVER EXCEED 400 WATTS.
2) THE SURGE DRAW FROM THE EQUIPMENT BEING OPERATED SHOULD EVER EXCEED 800 WATTS.
3) THE CIRCUIT TEMPERATURE SHOULD EVER EXCEED 165 DEG F.
Hi all,
As a newbie to all this, can someone please explain with Gotolouc's latest circuit diagram, the SPST swtitch/relay please?
(1) Is the switch replaced by high speed electronics/high speed relay if being used with an engine or is it just switched on and off just once to start the process?
(2) Is it synchronized with anything or any part of the motor revolution/ignition timing?
This may have been covered but if it was I wasnt able to find it, so apologies if that is the case, but once I understand a concept, I think I can add value to a discussion.
I'm just trying to understand. I have an engineering background of sorts, but always assume we never know everything and should be humble and open to learning.
Many thanks,
Steve
The problem i am having at the moment is the capacitors in my voltage doubler, the caps blow if the coil isnt allowing it to discharge via the spark/plasma gap. IF i spray too much water on the plug, it stops the firing and the capacitors blow. I am in the process of making a way to get 400vdc+ without using capacitors.
Check out this clip we should look into Electric Taser circuit.
in this video clip there's a salt water explosion with Taser.
Hello ,
I've just received an e-mail from S1R . He said he will make another video of the entire set up together.(working circuit)
HV
Hi Happy V,
Yesterday a friend sent me a 1991 French patent application that if it works explains exactly how the nail in the coil system works. He sent it to me for review, had nothing to do with S1R's strange coil but IF:
First coil is the magnet field coil, second coil is the modulator, third coil picks up energy. IF hooked up in a series regenerative system, coils the right size inductive and parasitic capacatance wise, spark generated burst RFaround 21 MHz sinewave, it would add the burst to itself in a regenerative feedback loop. Would work......S1R is either dumb like a fox, just plain lucky, or wise way beyond how he "talks".....I go for the plain lucky right now. A pain in the ass to be sure of as a lot of things have to fall into place.......but I'll at least give him the benifit of the doubt......
Ben
Hi Ben, a very interesting find I must say :D. Are you considering to replicate this patent or effect?
Luc
[Snip!}Impossible!! A waterwheel driving a generator which drives a water pump which drives the waterwheel???
Has anyone seen this(slightly off topic)!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlinM1wAI5U
Caught my attention! Be patient, you have to like LOTS of water! I can NOT explain it either......
Ben
Impossible!! A waterwheel driving a generator which drives a water pump which drives the waterwheel???
Wonder how many watts it takes to operate that pump, quite a few I would think...
This requires its own thread... :)
Hi Gang,
Did a very loose test of S1R's coil setup. Green is 5 turn HV, Large black is 7 turn modulating coil, small red to side is pickup.
NO combinations of wiring on the black and red in the magnetic circuit caused ANY change in a normal spark from 1 Hz to 1KHz spark on the plug. This is not to say it does not work, I just am unable to see any change in the spark or ANY change on the pickup coil on a scope....NADA.......I know it is not exact, was not looking for a "Kaboooooom", but not even a twitch on scope or in spark.....with high current in secondary coils.
Ben
Hi Luc,
Yes sometime today or tomorrow, sort of busy with family and friends and boat dock work project here at the condo. Will just try it with a plug and see If I can get extra plasma with the setup..Will also monitor the current in the spark with current pickup coil and display on scope, should be fairly easy to verify, good, bad, ugly.......
With the coil sizes, frequencies look about right, worried about Perm. mag. field intensity but not totally out of the park...........Simply removing the soft iron core or removing the magnetic current should give a straight spark. This might be a strange but true type of device..Again, this is a WAG (wild ass guess) type of device and THEORY..IF it works, could sure be used in other ways!!!!!
Has anyone seen this(slightly off topic)!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlinM1wAI5U
Caught my attention! Be patient, you have to like LOTS of water! I can NOT explain it either......
Ben
I don't want to post anything irrelevant, but has anyone messed with using a flyback transformer and drive circuit to produce plasma in the plug? I only ask because the plasma seems to be a necessary part of these experiments, and my flyback setup produces it consistently....at least it seems to. Let me know if this is a useless way to drive my plug.I may have missed something.
excellent use of a clamp if i do say so :) just curious is that really the way itys hooked up, i am seeing allot more ends of wire with your setup 2 red 2 blue and anohter 2, with s1r i am only seeing 3. just curious
thanks
Hi Luc,
Here is a good tutorial I shot at Peter's shop yesterday just to get someone going on the basic circuit if they're just joining your thread here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlMELbK8zDQ
It has schematics and photos. Easy circuit to isolate power supply and ignition coil.
What was the exact inspiration to make you put the diode from the cap to the HV on the ignition coil?
well,i tried to create your circuit again tonight luc,still whenever the rectifier is hooked up to the inverter it trips,when i hooked it to mains circuit breaker tripped.I put the light bulb in between the inverter and rectifier as suggested.When the rectifier isnt hooked up,the inverter runs the light bulb fine,as soon as I hook up the ac to rectifier,it is done.Seems like bad rectifier maybe,what do you think?
Hi K4zep
What if you used the water from the top of an electrolysis cell that had the H and O suspended in the water?
Dave,
@gotoluc
Excellent job, you know in all of the posts in the "tesla project" thread not one person posted so much as a picture of this circuit, let alone a well documented video. I think your dedication should be rewarded so I will explain more of the capabilities of this circuit. Consider the circuit you have built to the hand drawn one I posted a while back in this thread, Tesla Patent 568177. In the capacitor charging circuit there are diodes to prevent the potential on the capacitor from "discharging" back to the source. In this case the inductance is charged and the inductive discharge will charge the capacitor, the potential is raised and the current flow direction remains the same in both cases. The charged capacitor can then be utilized in many interesting ways, most of these ways concern the capacitor discharging back into itself through a circuit. Now consider what might happen if the diodes were removed and a load(lightbulb) placed in series with the capacitor, here we would have a series circuit consisting of 1)positive terminal of 12v battery 2)capacitor 3)lightbulb 4)inductor 5)negative terminal of 12v battery and a switch(transistor). This series circuit utilizes the "battery" a storage medium like a capacitor and the whole circuit including the battery will oscillate at a given frequency determined by L(inductor) and C(capacitor and battery). Remember power is a function of amps x volts(watts) passing a given point in a given time, but what if these "watts" passed this point more than once at the natural resonance of the circuit?
I would love to learn how to find the natural resonance of circuits.Heres a simple start : http://www.intuitor.com/resonance/index.php ... KneeDeep :)
Here is a picture of my basic water arc circuit that quiman posted, this bad boy makes a very loud discharge even at 3/8" gap. The capacitor is rated at 430uF@250v, rectifier is 25A@1000v, I looped the DPDT relay to selfrunning mode but the arc became unstable due to low voltage I would imagine.This is a pretty neat circuit ;D
Hi All,
Concerning Ossie's latest discoveries!!!!!
Right ON..............The circles we go in to get to the truth. It is early here, about 6:30 a.m. or so. I'll walk down to the boat and get a bottle of salt water and try it in my low compression FOX 78 engine later this Morning!!!!!!!!!! You might want to post how much salt you put in a gallon of water.
DAMN good work Ossie
Ben
Cool so it has been cut down to only capacitors now. Does this mean that this was a capacitance discharge all along?
Ossie output verses input new system does more ? with same/less input ? seems that way or am I wrong Chet PS I know its early[testing]gut feeling ?PPS I can see S1 selling bottled water on Ebay now
Amazing Find congrats!!!
Hi Broli,
It means there are a number of processes that are required to occur in the water for it to explode. Various circuits can initiate these processes in the water but in the end, it is the water that does the work and it is the water that explodes. There are no magic circuits or processes in the applied electrical energy that are needed to make the water explode. It is standard text book electrical theory at work here.
Regards,
Ossie
Hi ramset,
Total efficiency won't be known for quite some time yet. So much more to do to work out all of the performance parameters of this process and understand how they relate to it's overall energy efficiency. In reality we won't have any sort of real numbers until we can get a replicable engine running that can be measured accurately. This is some time away yet. The first step towards this is of course to get an engine running using this process.
Regards,
Ossie
Hi Ossie,
I posted about this in my forum last night. This is great work!
But this quote: "No heat is generated in this conversion but the explosion does result in significant kinetic energy which was shown to be greater than the input electrical energy."
If that is from Graneu (spelling??)...he is wrong and so are a lot of explanations on his site and it doesn't matter about credentials. Academia wants to take something and force it to fit inside of their box of what they already believe.
Luc's method does cause an explosion...followed by an implosion. The H&O ARE disassociating regardless of what he wants to believe and claiming it is simply molecules separating from each other are simply ridiculous.
Take a spark plug with Luc's method and srew a thick bolt on it to create a small cavity that the spark fires in. Spray water on it. Ignite repeatedly with a piece of paper over it...at the end of each spark, the paper is sucked to the bolt. That is classic browns gas implosion following an explosion and you can see it with your own eyes if you use dark sunglasses and look at the flame really close. I see the colors and the hydrogen is igniting showing proof of h/o separation.
No significant motive power is because of the re-association of h/o causing a vacuum....that is why on these spark plug circuits, there needs to be a Meyer EEC (electron extraction circuit) from the annode of the plug back to the input with a bulb in the middle to burn off electrons that are freed during separation...then the bang will be bigger without forming a vacuum right after. ALL COLD EXPLOSION.
I still need to test the salt water spray on Luc's plug to see what happens. Circuit simplified might be nice but it isn't the same time of spark. Did you spray the salt water on the spark using Luc's method?
Hi All,
Please see my latest video here.
http://www.youtube.com/m1a9r9s9
Or here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDU3U1gzLzc
First of all I would like to explain the purpose of my work in this thread and how I have come to this very important latest discovery. It was Luc who showed us all a very interesting and simple circuit he discovered whilst attemping to work out how SR1. could be powering an engine with only water in his videos. In my previous posts I was able to reproduce the effect of exploding pure water with an electrical circuit and verify Luc's circuit and the results. I went on to show how the basic effect could be done with little input power and also at high repetition rates comparible to that of a running engine's ignition system.
With the help of my good friend Ben, it was discovered that exploding water with electrical energy was shown to have more energy output then what was required as electrical input according to the published Graneau paper as described in my previous posts. This paper explained that the released energy was from the conversion of the molecular bond energy in liquid water. This conversion occured when liquid water came into contact with an electrical plasma and the liquid water was converted into a cool fog. No heat is generated in this conversion but the explosion does result in significant kinetic energy which was shown to be greater than the input electrical energy. This process and conversion did not dissassociate or split the atomic bonds of the H2O molecule but did split the molecular bonds that hold water in a liquid state. The energy released, although significant, is far less than if the H2O molecule was split and then the hydrogen was to be ignited.
The above mentioned circuits were based on having a charged capacitor and blocking diode/diodes connected across a spark plug. Then a HV spark from an ignition coil is also placed across the spark plug. This ignition spark ionised the air and any water in contact with the spark plug electrodes. This ionisation allowed the energy in the capacitor to be discharged and cause a strong and bright electrical plasma discharge between the spark plug electrode. The water on the electrodes, when in contact with the plasma, would explode as described in the Graneau paper. The diagrams or schematics, videos and pictures of these built and proven circuits can be found in my previous posts on this thread.
Now to my latest discovery. Whilst looking at the ionising effect of the ignition spark and how it allowed the capacitor energy to piggy back itself and jump across the spark plug gap, I wondered if it was possible and if there was another way to do this that did not required a HV ignition spark to ionise the spark plug gap. After a number of tests and trials using a fouled or blocked with water spark plug gap, I soon realised that two things were going on. I could see that the water in the clogged spark plug gap would bubble slightly and that the water itself had significant resistance such that not enough current could be discharged from the capacitor. This was because there was not much ionisation going on in the water itself. Also, on noticing the bubbles I realised that there was electrolysis or the splitting of the H2O molecule going on and that hydrogen was being released from the water that was clogging the gap. So it was then I realised that to get more current flowing in the water so as to be able to discharge the capacitor, I needed to lower the resistance of the water. I needed to get the ionisation to occur in the water itself. So this was simple, I just needed to add an electrolyte to the water so this is what I did. I added SALT to the water.
As soon as I did this and sprayed it on the spark plug gap to block it, it almost immediately bubbled away and exploded indicating it was being split. After only a few tests without any HV iginition coil or ignition spark I got it to repeatedly explode!!!! The spark plug gap is a factor and the amount of salt in the water but it all works and they are just some variable factors to the performance! The explosions are unlike anything I have experienced before. They are far more powerfull and loud and very HOT! They contained on demand genertaed hydrogen explosions!!!! Please see my videos above.
With this understanding I then was able to simplify the circuit to do this considerably. Please see the schematic below. You only need a capacitor of a few hundred uF and a bridge rectifier. You can use an inverter or the power from the wall to power it and that's all!
The power yielded is far greater than that of the cool fog explosions! These explosions are HOT hydrogen explosion and are very powerfull! The salt water is being split on demand in the spark plug gap and the capacitor discharge plasma is igniting the hydrogen. It is now my opinion that if the videos of SR1. are real indeed then this is what is occurring inside his engine which will justify the power observed as my experiments have shown that the previously described cool fog explosions could not account for the power shown in the firings of his engine. He has also verified that his engine does get hot which is not possible with the cool fog explosions of the previous circuits in this thread. It is likely that the water SR1. uses has salt or other minerals in it that he may not know of, particularly if it is from a bore. This can be enough to reduce the resistance of the water. I must also point out that it is also possible that capacitor70's motorcycle engine ran on this process as he did mention that he was using bore water to power it. Any acid or base can be used in the water to change it's PH level and lower it's resistance.
But now it becomes a requirement to be able to get alot of ionised or PH altered water to the spark plug so as to block it for this to work in an engine. Also, because the ignition circuit is not required, the cylinder's compression will be required to also condensate enough water in the spark plug gap to get it to explode. The operation will be vey similar, if not the same as a diesel engine. But many variables will have to be tested with the right combinations for a particular engine for this to work. Such as the spark plug gap, cylinder compression, type of spark plug, carburetor or water injection method, conductivity of the water and so on. But I believe that this process can be used to power an engine as it yields significantly more power than the previous cool fog water explosions that have been previously described.
There is room to be able to derive an ignition type circuit to create this same described effect and HHO explosion but use the ignition timing and even the HV spark to merely trigger the connection of the capacitor to the spark plug. This can also be done via another spark gap. But this will be explored and reported further in later experiements. Such a circuit will allow the effect and process to be used in a standard HV ignition timed engine. But it is important to understand and show that HV has NOTHING to do with the resulting explosion and output energy of this process as I have done above.
Regards,
Ossie
No significant motive power is because of the re-association of h/o causing a vacuum....that is why on these spark plug circuits, there needs to be a Meyer EEC (electron extraction circuit) from the annode of the plug back to the input with a bulb in the middle to burn off electrons that are freed during separation...then the bang will be bigger without forming a vacuum right after. ALL COLD EXPLOSION.
Hi Ossie,
I am having a hard time wording this but I'll give it a try, so please don't be upset if something I write makes you feel bad since that is not my intention here. As you know, I have praised and valued all the work you have done and you have added so much great research to this topic.
Using electrolyte in the water was a direction I was purposely avoiding (not wanting to do). Maybe you did not see the first page post where someone posted this Cold Fusion Plasma 9 Youtube video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bs-Uk511S_I which I deleted since I found it to be off topic. Now once again someone has posted it on this page. I am not impressed by this video demonstration because of the use of electrolyte in the water. I seem to find this to be a form of brute force electrolysis.
I can be wrong and you maybe on the right track and this is what would be needed to make a combustion engine work on water but I am hoping not. How can we expect a normal ICE to last with salt going though it? isn't it going to rust like 30 times faster than just water? It may work in the Lexan engine that I'm presently building but I think I would be testing this last.
Maybe there is something I'm missing or not understanding :-\
Luc
@callanan:
Just start your own thread...
My callanan Replication!!
or
URGENT! callanan WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
or
Alternative plasma spark ideas and discussion!!
;D ;D
I will admit...useing salt water in an engine...NOT a good idea ;)
my experiments have shown that the previously described cool fog explosions could not account for the power shown in the firings of his engine.
Rather than using salt or chlorine or chemicals of that nature, give this a whirl. Make a solution of colloidal copper up using simple electrolysis and distilled water and mist the colloidal copper toward the spark plug.
Go to Home Depot and get a foot of number 12 copper wire and remove the plastic coating and make your electrodes from that. This is a high enough grade of copper to perform this experiment. In no way are colloids of this grade of copper fit for human consumption, in other words do not drink.
IndianaBoys
Anyone here ever worked on old outboard motors on boats that have had copius quantities of seawater run through them all of their life for cooling? I have worked on and rebuilt some that are 30 years old. They are still going strong...
Ossie
Water Fuelled Car from Srilanka!!
http://uk.youtube. com/watch? v=g_7S48Mu_ H4
According to the the young inventor, the generator he has designed is
capable of running a motor car for 80 kilometres using only one litre
of water
Hello Ossie,
what about using your schematic for an alternative ignition system? Did you test it with gasoline? The thought behind my question is it to reach a result in saving fuel like the firestorm spark plugs can do.
Would it be possible to put a drop of gasoline directly to the spark plug and turn on the maschine?
And before people screeming that it is to dangerous, I know that using a sprayer with gasoline would be dangerous, therefore I ask for a drop of it directly on the spark plug.
thanks,
atlantex
OK....i gonna be the stupid one....i put a small amount of gas on the plug and fired the plasma...WOW!!!!! it was f-ing awesome!!!!
OK....i gonna be the stupid one....i put a small amount of gas on the plug and fired the plasma...WOW!!!!! it was f-ing awesome!!!!LOL, it's good to see someone take the bull by the horns and run with it ;D
I tested the injector assembly and it didn't work so well. The injector nozzle I'm using sprays a very fine mist, what we need is a fat stream of water to immediately fill the gap in the spark plug to cause the explosion. The injector nozzle couldn't fill the gap enough due to being a fine mist. It would eventually just fill the entire thing full of water and it would just sit there and bubble like a HHO generator and every once in a while it would pop and shoot all the water out of the assembly. I used my hand sprayer with the nozzle screwed out to shoot a stream and it would fire everytime in my injector assembly. I even pulled the assembly apart and had the plug laying in the open with the injector nozzle spraying right next to the plug and it wouldn't fire, but the hand sprayer with a fat stream of water made it fire everytime. So, I've got a couple more designs in mind but again I'll have to wait til I get to work tomorrow and ummm "borrow" some stuff to make it with. One design will hopefully allow a much bigger arc IF enough power is used.
I even pulled the assembly apart and had the plug laying in the open with the injector nozzle spraying right next to the plug and it wouldn't fire, but the hand sprayer with a fat stream of water made it fire everytime.@bumfuzzled
Hi...
I have been reading through the thread here so got to it and put together a plug.
The center electrode I machined from of a solid S/steel rod, which has a hole drilled down the center and a little hole cut just behind the end of the electrode end.
The cavity where the water will pool behind the electrode I built up with wax, then filled the rest of the pug with high temp cold weld goop.
After that just melted out the wax so the cavity is clear to hold water.
Well, I think this could be the right sort of plug design but I couldn't get the bang needed that would drive a piston.
The ignition coil is a bit old and tired so wouldn't surprise me if thats where the issue is, so will need to get hold of a new one.
Anyways, thought I would show where I got so far with this.
Phil......
The goop is a 2pack,, Permatex Cold Weld, Hardens like steel handles 3000PSI (item No: 14600). Obviously its non conductive or we wouldn't get anything happening. Hehehe.
@bumfuzzled
maybe a non-medical syringe needle used for glue or solder paste mounted in your spark plug housing would do the trick.
if the plug goes as planned will get these made professionally, but at this stage of testing the plugs electrode shape, its not worth the expense.
Picked up the GT ignition coil and will begin testing soon.
Phil........
It's got to be even smaller than that. I made a very crude nozzle today and it's just putting out too much. I did get it to fire a few times. Had the assembly sitting on a spray can top with a hole cut out in the middle for it to stick thru. Turned the lights out and pulsed the pump, it was pretty wild how it was lighting up the spray can top. It was even lifting it up off the table just a lil bit.
I've got a small solenoid valve I'm going to put inline when I get the right fittings, this will shut off the water flow immediately and maybe not drown the plug as bad. Plus I need a pressure relief valve so I can leave the pump running all the time and just pulse the valve and set my pressure where I want it.
I had it sitting upside down earlier today and was shooting it with the hand sprayer and it would light off everytime. I held my hand about a foot above it and you can definitely feel the shockwave from it.
No significant motive power is because of the re-association of h/o causing a vacuum....that is why on these spark plug circuits, there needs to be a Meyer EEC (electron extraction circuit) from the annode of the plug back to the input with a bulb in the middle to burn off electrons that are freed during separation...then the bang will be bigger without forming a vacuum right after. ALL COLD EXPLOSION.
Hi Gary...
Regarding manufacturing a run of prototypes, It is who you know and not what you know. (old saying)
Phil.....
The proper plug should have the wave guide as Meyer made I think. In other words it must have a shape of decreasing tube so the outlet is much smaller then inlet.
What about making your firing chamber smaller .
I was thinking of cutting off your plugs ground electrode and making the bottom of your firing chamber the electrode .
I made a little picture
The light blue is the actual chamber
The dark blue are drilled holes for water or plasma
Ideally the plug should fire into a small pool of water each stroke .
It might be possible to make the bottom of the firing chamber a threaded plug so the gap can be changed
gary
Hi
I had a similar thought about exploding water. My gut feel says you need to basically kick the stuffing out of the water first with a strong RF field ( a pre-iginition pulse ) and then while the water is reeling
about suddenly understanding what its like to go a few rounds with mike tysn , you "knock it out" with a second pulse that finally detonates the hydroxy & oxygen.
I tried a 75 Hz Jacobs Ladder pulse system to run a 50KV car ignition coil to try and split steam and nothing worth mentioning happened. Bugger. :(
FWIW - my guess ( as yet unproven if it works ) is the 240V AC when rectified to DC provides plenty of power to smash the water moluecules via a plasma. I'm about to build a 240 V AC ( mains power ) to DC to drive my own spark plug experiments and see how I go. From reading all the posts so far this seems worth trying.
I'm guessing two pulses per ignition ( a couple of milliseconds apart ) for every ignition stroke in a car engine might be useful.
I don't believe this will work for the LV only circuit. You need to get rid of the water as soon as you inject it into the gap or it will just sit there and bubble like an HHO generator.
I sent an email to Aaron asking this (It is his circuit), but can anyone confirm the wiring is correct on this slightly modified version of his spark enhancing circuit please?
http://www.mediafire.com/?nnmjbj9mrjn (http://www.mediafire.com/?nnmjbj9mrjn)
Plasmastudent
Can you explain a little more the circuit you used?
So far I am assuming you drove an aftermarket coil with a 75 Hz pulse .
I was planning on using Allcanadians circuit from the Tesla challenge thread ........ If I can get it pulsing fast enough .
Because of the size constraints from using a standard plug shell the gap in the final gap will be relatively small, Circuit will have to be fine tuned so it doesn't have to much voltage .
The gap needs to be triggered by the plasma and water as it moves through the gap .
To much voltage and it will arc continuously.
As far as a couple of pulses being enough ..... I don't plan on counting on that.
So far it looks like at least with a cold engine the vapor in the cylinder can condense out very quickly ..... ( implosion ) I plan on being able to start the plasma just after TDC and continuing as long as required to keep the gasses from going into implosion mode .
I am thinking that firing 15 or 20 degrees starting at TDC might be practical with a cold engine .
The extended firing would be like using a choke .... it would not be used all the time .
gary
I tried the simple circuit by Luc but I can't get the HV spark when the diodes are connected to the spark plug. Only when the diodes are disconnected, do I get a strong spark. This is contrary to the result as reported by Luc. I am using a 350uF, 450V capacitor, 10 1N5408 diodes in series connected as in the diagram, a variac tuned to 110V as power source through a bridge.
I also tried using different number of diodes, from 1 to 10. I noticed that when the diodes used dropped to less than 5 or 6, the sparking will stop completely, indicating the possibility that the HV output from the coil got shorted out through the diodes.
Since I cannot remove the resistor from the spark plug, I also tried with carbon rods (extracted from battery), copper rods, metal screws etc as the spark gap. I noticed that with the diodes disconnected, the spark generated is quite strong and sometimes the color is very white and bright. However, the effect is not consistent. Since I was manually charging the capacitor, and then discharging the capacitor by touching a wire to the capacitor terminals, the spark generated from touching the capacitor is also quite bright, often brighter than the spark at the spark gap.
I am curious as to why I cannot duplicate the result of Luc. :'(
Any help is appreciated.
James
Hi Gary,
The pumping you are talking about reminds me of the increasing amplitude pulse train that Meyers had in his patent/s.
Alternatively, if you vary the pulse length, you vary the energy in it. So a short 120 V DC pulse will have less energy that a pulse twice as long but same voltage.
So a PWM circuit could be adapted to produce :
a 1 ms pulse,
then 1 ms later,
a 2 ms pulse,
then 1 ms later,
a 4 ms pulse.
All at the same DC voltage.
This just a different way of how Meyer used a bunch of pulses of the same length, but each pulse was higher that the previous one in the pulse train ( 4 pulses I think, and these pulse trains were repeated over and over ).
With electricity, to work out the enegry in a pulse, you integrate the shape and width of the pulse to determine the energy contained in the pulse. Meyer had same pulse width, but varied the amplitude of the pulses in the pulse train, gradually increasing each successive pulse's amplitude over the length of each pulse train.
But I'm suggesting using the same pulse height ( as were using a constant DC voltage ) but make the width gradually longer over the pulse train. With a greater length pulse, we will have greater energy delivered to the spark plug with greatest energy in the last pulse.
So in effect, we should in theory , have a PWM based Meyer pulse train.
Cheers & beers,
Steve
Hi Troyd1
I suggested that a few posts back,but got no responce,spose.they didn't think much of that,also to fit the plug on the horizontal,they are a lot of those engines about,then put a cup over the end of the plug,leaving a hole in the top of the cup to put the water in.
happy hunting
peter
New video today of plasma & marble interaction. I used a different spark plug with a narrower gap so I could observe the pulse force a little closer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv_y3MH9-jcHi retrod,
RD
Hi retrod,
Also @ Dmoney and others with similar setups:
Can you adapt a long clear tube vertical filled with water over the sparkplug? Fill the tube with water and see how high the water will rise with the spark/explosion?
It's a cheap and quick way to measure approximately how much work energy you can get out of the spark with water as the exploding/expanding medium.
Hi all,
Gary , the general idea is say 4 pulses in a group each increasing in power ( height ) as the pulse train progresses. We can rig up some fancy electronics but someone will do that, if you have mechiancial knowledge then thats very welcome here.
One thought - 4 sprak plugs per cylinder ( they could be small ). The idea behind this is increasing the contact with the water to guarantee a big burn. Onviously this means increasing the electrical grunt to run them but thats easy to do. My thought are that water needs one helluva boot to get it moving and gassiefied, so I figure maybe 2 plugs give it the initial boot, then the 3rd & 4th give it the firing shot.
I'm hoping to do a basic proof of concept test for a single plug soon, and the quad plug idea later. The plugs dont have to be fancy at all - as long as they can carry current and 400V DC voltage.
Just a thought.
Cheers & beers,
Steve.
Hi Bumfuzzled,
HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I laughed to so hard I cried....... ;D Did your Ma get a burn? Hope shes OK.
Sorrry to mention this, *grin* , but all I could think of was one expisode of Jackass where they dragged a live gator into the kitchen for their mum to find........now THAT was very funny.....no harm done ......gator in the kitchen, $400, her reaction........priceless :-)
Ok - back to the post.
Great research. I am starting to think a quick series of pulses per firing stroke for an engine looks more likely to produce a prolonged burn by in effect producing a long HOT pulse to create in effect a constant plasma ( i.e. stretched over 4 pulses ......pulse-pulse-pulse-pulse ) . I have seen the Meyer patent which shows pulse trains, so I wonder if we could have say 4 caps each on its own relay, and fire each cap in sequence to produce a pulse trian.
I think the 4 smaller pulses in sequence makes sense, as using a big cap might have a slightly longer pulse, but ultimately will just melt things. My thinking is that 4 smaller caps ( maybe 200 uF each ? ) fired one after the other in sequence by control electronics would likely create a long plasma but ( hopefully ) not melt the tip of the plug - because each of the 4 caps is smaller in size. I am starting to think that the key may be getting a constant electrical "burn" into the water, but with enough energy to do this, but not too much else the plug tip melts. Hmm...the art of balance......
SR19.... used in effect a high speed electro-mechanical pulse generator ( an electromechanical oscillator - which is two 12 volt car relays flip-flopping back and forth at speed, which makes a buzzing sound when it does this ) which I am now starting to think generates the pulse train to the plug. I am thinking relays are used *because* they can handle the high current and are cheap, where as power electronics may not be up to it. Hopefully someone may try this and let us know their results.
Thoughts?
Cheers & beers,
Steve.
Has anyone tried using a nebulizer to create a water mist?
Is Luc still on this thread? Or has he left? Who is now moderating?
James
According to SR1, it seems that the 110V DC is *not* what burns the water, rather the ignition spark does - but his circuits appear to have the coil current up to 10 Amps, which at 50 KV is quite a boot.
Has anyone tried using a nebulizer to create a water mist?
Here you go guys, a complete research paper with all your hard work on the water spark plug, Aaron, PL, ossie's and many more.This is like a digest so you wont have to goto through many forums posts, it can be periodically updated, just send me the stuff.
Goto the panaceauniversity: http://www.panaceauniversity.org/ Over unity research papers ->Ganga Shakti -Water Spark plug research (PDF)
Ash
Hello plasmastudent,
what exactly do you mean?
s1r had a connection from each distributer point to the 8 relay (and to ground) to open exactly only when firing.
But how did it fire? From the same point on dissi with a seperate wire to centre electrode of each spark plug?
So, he got a parallel circuit after each dissi point? (HV-coils in relays?)
Or in series dissi point to relay coils to spark plug centre?
(Or two dissis? Guess, NO.)
Where are the 10A, 50kV?
Thanks
magneto_DC
.... in the last video (just posted) he demonstrates a circuit design by Overunity user: capacitor70 and shows the power between gas and water.Very interesting and promising indeed ! .. KneeDeep
Luc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foytvHDYgEg
Hi All,
I've stumbled upon this thread last week and can't stop thinking about it. I'm set to get the parts for the circuit but have a few questions:
1. I'll be getting a new inverter (solid state) and I understand these are not as tolerant of circuit spikes. What measures can take to protect it. Is that what the light bulbs are for?
2. How fast does it take to charge the cap. Once I understand what's happening, I'll try it in my grass trimmer engine. I'm thinking of bypassing the magneto and pulsing the circuit from a cam on the output shaft. The speed will be limited by how fast the cap can charge.
Thanks,
Dave
hi
i have replicate the curcit at the first site....
at first, without diodes ist was a "normal" spark, after, with ~10 diodes in series was nothing... no spark...
but after trying x times, there was a SUPER BOOOOOM... 20 times a very very strong an very loud spark...
but now... it is death again?! why?
why doesn't it function once and then again?
and anyway, which has it with the diodes in series up itself, since it is actually a short-circuit?
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQx68BiNc4
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=YOTUniF7K54
hi
i have replicate the curcit at the first site....
at first, without diodes ist was a "normal" spark, after, with ~10 diodes in series was nothing... no spark...
but after trying x times, there was a SUPER BOOOOOM... 20 times a very very strong an very loud spark...
but now... it is death again?! why?
why doesn't it function once and then again?
and anyway, which has it with the diodes in series up itself, since it is actually a short-circuit?
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQx68BiNc4
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=YOTUniF7K54
Hi All,
I've stumbled upon this thread last week and can't stop thinking about it. I'm set to get the parts for the circuit but have a few questions:
1. I'll be getting a new inverter (solid state) and I understand these are not as tolerant of circuit spikes. What measures can take to protect it. Is that what the light bulbs are for?
2. How fast does it take to charge the cap. Once I understand what's happening, I'll try it in my grass trimmer engine. I'm thinking of bypassing the magneto and pulsing the circuit from a cam on the output shaft. The speed will be limited by how fast the cap can charge.
Thanks,
Dave
Hi,I had a little success....here is a vid on youtube
Is anyone having success with a submerged plug? If so what modifications to the circuit were made.
Thanks. I am building a test bed to measure variables.
D
Dopey check post *1088 Chet
...Thanks Xbox, musta missed that one. Tried with electrolyte, more volume and or pressurized air yet?I didnt think to try it with electrolyte....but it sounds like fun!!! ;D
Our circuit won't be ready till tomorrow, I am working on something that I'll publish (when it's finished) but I'd sure like to see the results of my questions.
Thanks
D
I didnt think to try it with electrolyte....but it sounds like fun!!! ;D
I am making a pressure tube now.....
xbox hacker,I was just going to use some Lye.... But i might give it try. (that rhymes...LOL)
Good work! Give this a whirl. Make a solution of colloidal copper as your electrolyte using simple electrolysis and distilled water.
Go to Home Depot and get a foot of number 12 copper wire and remove the plastic coating and make your electrodes from that. This is a high enough grade of copper to perform this experiment. In no way are colloids of this grade of copper fit for human consumption, in other words do not drink.
IndianaBoys
Yes...Post 1088 is a perfect example. It goes on at great length about a complicated theory of something or other and uses a large number of non-traditional terms (diodes slamming shut and compressing things... ::)) and vague gibberish trying to explain something that the writer obviously does not understand. Nowhere does it answer any of the basic simple practical questions I've asked.
What is the whole contraption intended to do? Does it do it? How well, in objective, measurable terms? Does it do anything that normal, standard physics cannot explain on first principles? If so, what?
Without solid answers to those questions being sought and discussed, the tendency is toward a ring-around-the-rosy parade of endless meaningless gibberish explanations that don't even warrant being called theories. I'm sure it's fun to pretend and play, but will it get anyone any closer to providing answers to real-world energy problems...that is the question. I have no opinion as yet, other than to say that what I've read on the thread so far does not address any of the basic scientific issues or questions.
Have I missed something?
What is the whole contraption intended to do?From Gotoluc's first post, the "contraption" is intended to produce an "efficient way to change water to a fuel." I'm sure it was also intended to provide a simple device for others to build and see first hand the water plasma spark phenomenon, thus growing public awareness and interest in this potential energy source. A third goal, I think, was to provide a practical starting platform for others to experiment with and explore improvements. Gotoluc, if I am wrong in my understanding, please correct me.
Does it do it?The circuit appears at first to produce an efficient "water to fuel" effect, yes. By "efficient," this is in contrast to the comparatively high current HHO production experiments.
How well, in objective, measurable terms?Callanan/Ossie has pointed us to a research paper "Arc-liberated chemical energy exceeds electrical input energy." See >this post (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.msg109420.html#msg109420)<. Do you have any suggestions on how results can be measured? The FE open source movement is the "wild west" of research, so not everyone is going to have exactly the same wagon. ;-) Yes, it would be great to establish a common measurement technique to evaluate effectiveness of circuit changes.
Does it do anything that normal, standard physics cannot explain on first principles? If so, what?I don't think anyone is making a claim of this sort. But, I would say it DOES produce an extraordinary effect, easily reproduced, and thus is valuable as a teaching tool and a starting place for open source propagation.
Here, it appears that the spark igniting energy may be significantly more...possibly (actually quite probably) more than the total energy available from the resulting "fuel". Finding the answer to this question, in my opinion, would be the key to deciding whether this is a practical real phenomenon worth developing. I don't see that answer being pursued very diligently here, that's all I'm saying.
These are good questions and I agree too they need clear answers. Here is my take, as an interested observer:
From Gotoluc's first post, the "contraption" is intended to produce an "efficient way to change water to a fuel." I'm sure it was also intended to provide a simple device for others to build and see first hand the water plasma spark phenomenon, thus growing public awareness and interest in this potential energy source. A third goal, I think, was to provide a practical starting platform for others to experiment with and explore improvements. Gotoluc, if I am wrong in my understanding, please correct me.
The circuit appears at first to produce an efficient "water to fuel" effect, yes. By "efficient," this is in contrast to the comparatively high current HHO production experiments.
Callanan/Ossie has pointed us to a research paper "Arc-liberated chemical energy exceeds electrical input energy." See >this post (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.msg109420.html#msg109420)<. Do you have any suggestions on how results can be measured? The FE open source movement is the "wild west" of research, so not everyone is going to have exactly the same wagon. ;-) Yes, it would be great to establish a common measurement technique to evaluate effectiveness of circuit changes.
I don't think anyone is making a claim of this sort. But, I would say it DOES produce an extraordinary effect, easily reproduced, and thus is valuable as a teaching tool and a starting place for open source propagation.
Please excuse my ignorance...it's been over 30 years since my electronics training (haven't used it much since). I'm trying to find a 100 to 200 uf cap in the 200-250v range to use in the spark circuit. Would a motor start capacitor work? I can get one from a surplus dealer. They're pretty big but as long as the ratings match it should work... right?
Thanks,
Dave
Thank you, Winner
Those are good answers. So...the idea that excites here is more than neat, pretty sparks and excited forum comrades having fun playing in their chosen hobby, I take it. There is the elusive promise of "Changing Water into Fuel". But no one here has yet made any kind of measurement as to whether the resulting fuel provides more or less energy than required in electrity to change it. Some other guys with entirely different apparatus report that they have done it with COP>1 but no one in the "scientific community" has reproduced that work.
Is all of that about right? I guess the way to measure it is to burn the fuel produced with a know measured quantity of electrical energy input in the most efficient possible way in an insulated, closed environment. Then measure the temperature rise produced in a known quantity of media such as air or whatever the "water fuel" is proposed to be used to heat. If the idea is that this "fuel' can power an internal combustion engine, then heating compressed air rapidly in an enclosed volume is the measure of merit.
The energy-content figures for gasolines of varying octane under varying conditions of use (pressure, air/fuel mix, etc) are well-studied in the scientific literature. Of course there, the spark igniting energy is fairly miniscule compared to the energy released.
Here, it appears that the spark igniting energy may be significantly more...possibly (actually quite probably) more than the total energy available from the resulting "fuel". Finding the answer to this question, in my opinion, would be the key to deciding whether this is a practical real phenomenon worth developing. I don't see that answer being pursued very diligently here, that's all I'm saying.
Anyway, Winner...thank you very much for your response. And to all...carry on, gentlemen! Let's see who is the first to demonstrate and quantify something here that perks up the curiosity of "regular scientists"!
If anyone hasn't seen this show I would highly recommend you do.
It is related to what we are trying to achieve here.
http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=Equinox+-+It+Runs+on+Water+%28Free+Energy+-+1995%29&hl=en&sitesearch=&aq=-1&oq=#
@dopey, you sound like a knowledgeable person. The information here may not please everyone. If you truly seek answers then you should know that a replication is needed.
Anyways, how could you trust our answers??? when we don't speak your science.
Luc
With science and engineering both logic and intuition are used, or the left and right brain hemispheres.
Measuring is important to direct experiments and to prevent fooling yourself.
Even if an ICE runs smoothly on batteries, then that doesn't say a thing, it still could be 10% efficient and the fully charged battery could be drained in 5 minutes.
It's all about analyzing this single event, a single spark in this matter and check if the results are the same as graneau's.
Measuring the kinetic energy of a single discharge is a must if you want to know the COP and efficiency, or if the ice runs, it can be coupled to a generator, then also the COP can be determined.
But then again, I only talk :)
Yes...analyzing the single event...the single spark...that's what I'm after. Where do I find "graneu's results" and experimental setup described for replication? Please point that out...I missed it.
With science and engineering both logic and intuition are used, or the left and right brain hemispheres.
Measuring is important to direct experiments and to prevent fooling yourself.
Even if an ICE runs smoothly on batteries, then that doesn't say a thing, it still could be 10% efficient and the fully charged battery could be drained in 5 minutes.
It's all about analyzing this single event, a single spark in this matter and check if the results are the same as graneau's.
Measuring the kinetic energy of a single discharge is a must if you want to know the COP and efficiency, or if the ice runs, it can be coupled to a generator, then also the COP can be determined.
But then again, I only talk :)
If we can get an ICE running smoothly using plasma but the battery is drained in 5 minutes we are 90% there . from that point we would need to make the prosess more efficient .......or add an alternator or 2Won't added alternators drain the batteries even faster?
Why is Graneau the one to compare with ?
If you read the thread another here has replicated many of Graneau's work and found many discrepencies and misleading statements.
gary
Won't added alternators drain the batteries even faster?
Because G. claimed excess energy.
I haven't seen the posts you talk about, remember which page?
I'm coming from plasma technology and study the Gray tube, Corr?a tubes and naturaly this sp?cial double positives : today, for me, the hydrino concept is for me the answer : Papp engine utilise this technology too, stanley meyer too: the Joecell alone is not solved by : why ? i don't know: some subtilities maybe !
hum ! don't mis this amasing hydrino, guys ! ::) it's surrely what you 're surching for
terry M
Lighting and Lasers
In an embodiment, the BlackLight Process forms a plasma (a hot, glowing, ionized gas) which also represents a new primary light source. Further, the process produces a new inert form of hydrogen gas that may serve in applications such as the medium for a new high energy laser.
Measuring is also important to determine whether a perceived "event" is really worth any trouble investigating! Lots of "talk" and exchange of ideas and arguments is involved. 99% of scientific work that results in real discovery and development has to do with making sure you are not fooling yourself. The other 1% has to do with imagination and exploration.
Clearly, no one here agrees on any measure of success nor is there any concensus on what the experiment consists of. Each person has their own definitions. So much for "replication"! In this environment, there is no hope of success and no chance of failure. It's a hobby.
Well I think it's pretty clear how to replicate any one of the many circuits in this thread. When you get a plasma arc then squirt a lil water on the gap and if the arc gets bigger then lo and behold you have success. Seems pretty simple to me but if you wanna get a govt grant and millions of dollars in test equipment just to say "yeah that arc got bigger when I squirted water on it" then by all means go ahead and do that. Good grief. ::)
@dopey
One thing that really puzzles me is your constant question as how to replicate this device.
Are you blind? Almost every page of this post has a schematic diagram of this device.
How can you expect anyone on this thread to take you seriously,
while you keep asking such a ridiculous question.
Pick a number from 1 to 29 and then go to that page and build a copy of the circuit on that page. ;D
P.S. My car runs on piss and vinegar. I built it myself in 1966.
I was wondering when the M.I.B would join the thread. Listen to the sub frequency and you will hear ''Freedom of thought is dangerous, we are the institution''. Getting to close are we?
D
The promise of the thread is hopefully something beyond being able to say and demonstrate that "yeah that arc got bigger when I squirted water on it". If that was the extent of it, to impress youself and your friends that a spark seems to get bigger when you squirt water on it, then I would think the video would suffice. What would be the point of replication, other than a fun hobby project (and there's nothing wrong with that)?
You must admit that it is a giant leap to conclude from any of this that the theorized energy being released from the water molecules is necessarily greater than the energy required to form the spark. The published scientific paper does suggest that and* [see edit] does appear to be reasonably legitimate on its face and to have employed at least reasonable efforts toward measurement accuracy, although I understand the results have been widely challenged and credibly disputed by equally diligent researchers. And, even with all the high-tech lab equipment and physics expertise of the whole lot of them focused on the subject, none have even attempted to show anything like a water-powered machine (on even the tiniest scale) based on this and it's been near ten years since that publication.
To conclude from any of this that by simply jacking up the pulse fed to an ICE's spark plug(s) and possibly tinkering with the carburetor or injection system, that an ICE would be able to run on water...that seems like a rather giant leap of faith and hope to me. And one that remains entirely unsupported by evidence of any credible nature.
[edit] On a more careful reading of the published paper, I have to qualify the stricken statement in a very important way that is basic to the whole question here. It does not claim that the energy released from the water is greater than the energy required to make the plasma. What it claims is that the total energy measured is greater when the water is present. So the claim is not that there is any kind of overunity being shown, but rather that some tiny amount of energy appears to be added by the addition of the water into the plasma. There is a huge yet subtle distinction there!
So, to make an analagous example, if I build an ICE with this technology, and let us say that the thermal energy released by a single "dry spark" (no fuel of any kind...gasoline or water or wahatever) in my machine is equivalent to 1 joule, let us say, then we obviously would not expect that amount of energy to expand the air in the cylinder with enough force to move the piston significantly. In other words, you would not expect the energy just coming from the plasma arc on a normal car engine, by itself, to run the engine, would you?
Now, say that we had discovered this water thing causes the same 1 joule spark of energy (when dry) to mysteriously release 2 joules or even 5 or 10 joules of energy. This is far more generous than anything suggested by the published paper or the original video of this thread. Do you think the engine would run now? Hell no, it wouldn't.
This whole thread seems to be based on a completely false hope that if water could be used to magnify the heating energy released by an electrical spark by a relatively small factor (far less than an order of magnitude), that one could skip the gasoline altogether. Do you think that your car's engine would run on nothing but air if you put in a ten-fold ignition system? Ten spark plugs per cylinder, each driven with the same energy that the single one there now has? Or one spark plug per piston being hit with ten times the electrical energy? Obviously not!
The foolish conclusions being leapt to in this thread and the wasted enthusiasm and efforts those wrong and unbased conclusions are leading to...all of it is the result of this pig-headed refusal to intelligently discuss the subject in any reasonable manner prior to diving headlong into utterly useless 'replications' of hardware. It is a hobby where the enjoyment seems to be derived from an insistence on group delusion.
I think Dopey is making some very valid points, and he must feel like he's hitting his head against a brick wall. I thought this group was about moving away from the heirarchical/centralised/microsoft approach, to the collaborative/decentralised/linux approach, but it's looking more like a mob rule.
I'm really not into the idea of trying to make ICE run as a first step, but to initially try to outline what is happening here. However, in the spirit of trying to come up with something useful for those that really want to go straight for the ICE, let me recycle a few pertinent points that I've gathered from this thread. There are two broad effects going on here that seem to be lost in the size of the thread. There is the 'hot' ignition that uses current along with either the an electrolyte or water with a dielectric constant that leads to the same effect, and the 'cold' non/low thermal expansion that appears to be breaking the inter water bonding which is leaving the water molecule intact.
Using that latter, it is my believe (from others obervations), that this 'explosion' occurs in about 10ms, after which it implodes. So the net pressure before and after the reaction is zero change. This would be very simple to demonstrate by wetting the plug then putting a baloon securely over the end and doing a cold explosion. My expectation is that the baloon will be the same size approximately before and after the explosion. I also think that it won't expand very much, as even if the water expands by 1000 times, as the amount of water involved in relation to the volume capacity of the baloon it probably won't be enough to break it (I'd love to be wrong). That's not a total loss though, it just means it would be better utilized in a different kind of engine as I stated much earlier in this thread, but if we're steadfast about ICE, then it has some implications:
1. If it expands in 10ms (for example), that means you need to get the piston somewhere in the region of BDC before the implosion tries to pull it back up (or open a valve). That's a heck of a lot of acceleration for a piston on a standing start, and a lot of volume to be filled with a smallish explosion.
2. The most difficult part would be the standing start, and would likely benefit from an almost constant burn in order to attempt to keep the water expanded until the piston passes the bottom. Once the piston is moving fast enough (say 6000rpm), a single pulse per revolution may keep it in motion, so faster running may be far more efficient (and may be the difference between draining the battery and charging it, assuming we don't yet know where the chemical or RE is taking place).
If the possible sources of entrained energy are unquantified, or possibly even unquantifiable by known instruments, then it would be well worth while to try to create an experiment that would allow the effects or derivatives of that energy to show us (eg simple baloon, static small explosion chamber with a couple of reed valves or tesla valvular conduits).
It looks to me that the benefit of the cold explosion is the huge energy pulse rather than the volume change. I'll bet it could drive a hydraulic ram or something very well. Maybe there's leverage there that could be exploited.
What about explosive sound generated from spark gap ? Does it occurs also without water across sparkplug electrodes ?Yes, it does ;D In fact the same sound (very loud crack) occurs when you simply short a charged capacitor with a screwdriver. The only change in the qualities of the discharge in the water arc circuit is that the discharge occurs across a gap due to the high voltage creating a conducting path. In this case we can say the gap itself has changed the qualities of the discharge as the discharge is travelling through a different media. I have also found interesting effects when the spark gap is replaced with an NE2 to charge a resonant tank circuit, it seems this circuit has many useful applications.
Thank you very much. This quite prove my theory. Sound is a waste of energy, actually heat and sound is a conversion of Radiant energy into electromagnetic spectrum and mechanical pressure. Sound would indicate a conversion around sonic waves so I assume 1 - 20 khz frequency of discharge oscillation (sonic area)I would agree sound and heat can be considered the lowest forms of energy, they are conservative--that is energy is conserved but they are entropic and are continually lowering there potential through expansion. They can be utilized as we know but do so at the cost of massive losses incurred in the system.
...sweeping statements such as "unsuitable for ICE, etc." are based on what? Otto cycle, wankel, Jet, Heat pump? Your assumption that everyone is working towards the same goal is wrong.
Did anyone ever try making that gizmo s1r9a9m9 showed in Video_3 and what was the end result? I'm going to this weekend (have to get a new sparkplug for the engine and an inverter today) and would like to know others results, if any, for comparison.
Personally I keep coming back to a static chamber tuned, but I have to keep thinking about ICE when responding in this thread, which has a whole basket of extra complications.
Recent interview with Robert Krupa and the firestorm sparkplug
http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/shows/show_207413.mp3 (http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/shows/show_207413.mp3)
Do you know when this interview took place (date or year)?
Shiver, please do not limit your post in this tread to just what works in a standard ICE, as my own clear Lexan engine that I will resume building next week is not a standard ICE. It will hopefully use both expansion and contraction energies. It will have no intake or exhaust. I will not even have a standard spark plug.
So let the creative ideals flow please.
Luc
I will have to disagree with Mr Krupa on the air fuel ratio, if you run an engine at a 30:1 AFR with just gasoline that motor will be toast in no time. It's just fact, it will melt the pistons and eventually seize.I would agree, however your statement in itself gives us a clue as to the direction we should be heading. A lean AFR will "melt the pistons", as the expansion ratio(pressure) thus power developed is based on a rise in temperature in the cylinder how is it that a lean mixture can produce more heat?. In another thread I recalled how 20 years ago I was running a 1600cc VW engine on 80% methanol and had 8" blue flames coming out my 10" zoomy pipes(short exhaust pipes on each cylinder). I was running super lean and as you say super HOT, the issue was easily solved with proportional water injection and I retained all if not more power in the process of running a very lean methanol AFR. In truth most ICE's add extra fuel to "cool" the cylinder which makes no sense what so ever from the stand point of efficiency when you could easily add water to accomplish the same cooling.
I can't comment on if introducing a plasma ignition system will allow you to lean it out to a 30:1 AFR because I've never done that but I'm highly skeptical of it. Ever heard of a lean misfire?? At 30:1 I don't think you'd have enough fuel to even get the engine to idle much less run down the road.Actually a stronger ignition is a requirement for burning natural gas in larger engines like the waukasha stationary engines used in gas compressors having massive combustion chambers. This high voltage ignition is to prevent the "lean misfire" you have mentioned, most gas turbines I have seen also use high intensity plasma igniters for starting, when I first saw the large discharge from my replication of Gotoluc's circuit a lean burn engine is the first thing that crossed my mind. I think this is the perfect application for it while working towards a "water" engine.
I'm wondering if a plasma ignition would help with detonation. Wonder if it creates a faster burn therefore not giving the fuel enough time to detonate. Same as the "fast burn" heads you can buy. Same reason in a hot rod motor you want a very small squish area, to keep gases from "hiding out" and causing detonation.From my pulse-detonation engine I learned that true detonation is not a "burn" it is a hopefully a controlled "explosion" as all the fuel combusts instantly at the same time, there is no flame front or fast burn, a pressure wave ignites all fuel explosively instantly----think of a 6sq/in chamber producing a noise like a freaking howitser and knocking all kinds of heavy shit off your garage walls, I got it working perfect every time then put it on a shelf to collect dust for my own safety. A person named Somender Sing if I have his name right ;D has done remarkable work with squish bands and minimizing detonation, he is light years ahead of the auto engineers.
Also forgot to mention that when detonation occurs you will actually see exhaust temps drop but engine temp will go up. Don't know exactly why because it's been awhile since I read up on that.It would make sense that detonation would produce spot heating in the combustion chamber while producing a more complete burn leading to more pressure being present in the cylinder when the exhaust valves open, This may produce a greater expansion ratio across the exhaust valves when first opening thus a cooling effect----my best guess ;D
I did a test with Luc's circuit and a homemade spark gap to see what kind work the spark could do. It won't dislodge a cork if it is pushed in with any force. Promising, but a long way to go.
Cap was 100uf @ 350v. Charged to around 150vdc using 110 main (no inverter).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSoWfYTyXUA
Dave
Hi. I'm new here.Here is a image of a plasma firing with gauge....it was one frame from a video i did the pressure goes up about 10-15 psi...
I'm going to start my own experiments on thursday ('cos appropriate diodes aren't available right now at my local electronic shop). Have somebody already measured the pressure of explosion and implosion through the time. Sound analysis? High speed shooting video camera? Spectral analysis? Have somebody tried to insert a little drop of pure (or ordinary destilled) water to the spark gap and the fire it? What about cavitation effect and sonoluminescence?
I've seen a video showing the explosion driving piston down in ICE (so the implosion time was shorter than explosion during piston drive-down), but is there overunity?
sorry for my english
Have somebody already measured the pressure of explosion and implosion through the time.Are you sure there is an implosion? I saw a video were the person placed a piece of paper in front of a tube containing the plasma discharge and the paper moved forward then backward and it was proposed that there was an "implosion". However what was not considered is that the column of air displaced outward from the tube has mass thus inertia, in some cases the pressurized air will move forward then continue on in excess of its pressure due to inertia producing a vacuum behind it then reverse its direction due to this vacuum. This is the primary process involved in pulse-jet engines and most all impulsive flows in general, so I think this fact should be considered before we state the media has in fact "imploded".
@grawpSVK
Are you sure there is an implosion? I saw a video were the person placed a piece of paper in front of a tube containing the plasma discharge and the paper moved forward then backward and it was proposed that there was an "implosion". However what was not considered is that the column of air displaced outward from the tube has mass thus inertia, in some cases the pressurized air will move forward then continue on in excess of its pressure due to inertia producing a vacuum behind it then reverse its direction due to this vacuum. This is the primary process involved in pulse-jet engines and most all impulsive flows in general, so I think this fact should be considered before we state the media has in fact "imploded".
Water is a polar molecule. Even though is is electrically neutral the electrons are orientated to one side giving it a slightly negative end and a slightly positive end. This causes a bond between the molecules. Cohesion, surface tension and capillary action are all indicative of this bond.The polarization due to incoherent field states produces strong interference fields bewteen the two.
This also accounts for the high boiling point of water. A lot of energy is required to separate this bond and so induce a state change to the vapour phase, from solid to gas. .Heat is not "something" it is a condition of something, Heat--- a radiation falling within wavelengths at or near what we call infrared wavelengths is energy as oscillations in the media. If these wavelengths should reach an amplitude in which strong interference fields can be overcome the polarization no longer exists. When the size of the fields is reduced so is the inertia thus the rate of oscillation can increase and energy can be absorbed through an increase in velocity due to change in acceleration.
When the bond between 2 water molecules is broken some of the heat energy required for the separation is taken away.
The greater the difference of temperature the greater the rate of evapouration.
Liquids have a lower potential energy than gases because the molecules in liquid attract each other. When a molecule of liquid changes state to a gas it gains potential energy from the kinetic energy of other molecules around it.
Let's gently twist Xbox's arm shall we?
Hey Luc, can you post smw1998a's schematic from energetic forum? I joined the site couple weeks back and I don't have access to download it yet..
Please confirm these results: 35 PSI - 75PSI. 40 PSI - 160 PSI
@Dread:
35psi to 75psi 100% YES, you can see it in the video
40psi to 160psi ....yes... but without video proof and further tests we can not conclude 100% Too many variables
-total chamber pressure
-spark gap size
-spark gap electrode shape (round...point...blunt)
-DC voltage
I need to make a "water injector" for the jig, thats part of the problem for now....
@Xbox
After carefully observing your video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He26yOULGu4, I believe that the intake and exhaust valves are NOT needed.
Juan
@Xbox
After carefully observing your video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He26yOULGu4, I believe that the intake and exhaust valves are NOT needed.
@ all
Intake and exhaust valves are used to bring in fuel and remove exhausted fuel out. However in our case, we aren?t doing a chemical burn and therefore no fuel needs to be brought in and out. The expansion of the 35psi to 75psi (thank you Xbox) shows that the cylinder could be closed--I think. I do not know if the 30-70psi is enough difference to drive a piston down and back up; I will have to test this for myself.
I surmise that in order to get an ICE to work with plasma and water, these are the steps I have to follow:
1. Close the intake and exhaust values. I have a 3hp B&S lawnmower engine to do this.
2. Have the correct amount of water in the cylinder so as not to ?flood? the spark gap, but enough to agitate the water with the plasma. (For the plasma I will use Cap70?s circuit)
3. Find the correct pressure to drive the piston down and up. Xbox shows that 35psi goes to 70psi, and 40psi goes to 160psi; again, I will have to do experiments to find the proper combination.
Please let me know if my reasoning is correct. I will try this experiment this weekend and post my results.
And please excuse my English.
Juan
Hi all,
I am wondering - we have been using a single spark plug designed for easily combustable liquid fuel.
What if with a minor modification, we could actually make the water engine more efective?
In studying the Papp engine it seems to me its a heavily disguised water engine already.
http://www.rexresearch.com/papp/2pappats.htm#4428193
See Fig 4,5 & 6
Note the size of the "spark plugs" - there are 4 OF THEM. And they are hemispherical.
And they are twice the size of normal spark plugs.
Maybe these are needed to put enough enegry into the water to maximise the contact area with the water vapour and provide a nice symetric combustion space by bringing the electrical ignitiers close to the piston..............
How to do this:
(1) get an old lawn mower ( a 2 stroke will do for proof of concept at this stage )
(2) Remove the head ( they dont have valves so this is easy )
(3) Buy 3 peices of 1/2 inch steel plates to make a new head - weld the the 3 bits together one of top of each other so you have a 1 1/2 inch thick head.
(4) Get a drill and drill 2 ( or 4 ) holes and mount a couple of rough hemisphere "spark plugs" - make sure the plugs are out of the way when the piston is at the top of its stroke.
(5) Mount new head on the engine and test.
Since water needs a good nudge to get it to crack, maybe this might be the transfer mechanism we need.
I dont have the mechanical ability to test this, but its worth looking at - even if we replaced the existing head with a single 1/2 steel plate and tap in 4 holes and install 4 standard spark plugs so they all fire at the same time so we have 4 times the energy delivery to the water..
Cheers
Steve.
What about adding some acetone in the water
Acetone helps in petroleum fuel to breakup the larger molecules for a more complete burn. In water, it might reduce the surface tension allowing for smaller particle size? Here is some info from the man who advocates acetone for the past 50 years.
http://www.brightgreen.us/lubedev/smartgas/additive.htm
"The acetone molecule works physically to vigorously shake up every drop of fuel. It acts like an internal vibrator to vibrate each tiny bit of fuel so the fuel fragments do NOT ball up or glue together into large aggregate particles. This important additive guarantees more complete vaporization of fuel inside the combustion chamber where it really matters to defeat surface tension."
This very experienced man does not like water in fuel. But, he has no idea what we are trying to do. All his articles are very helpful, and I will apply what I can to improve the mileage of my old Toyota truck until I can get it to run on water.
I'm doing some pressure experiments with Luc's circuit. I recently shorted out my coil primary. Is it a problem feeding a coil 140+ volts when it's designed for 12-14? How can I protect it?
Thanks,
Dave
Thanks for the reply Luc.
I'm using your suggestion of 120 main AC thru a bridge rec charging a 100-150 uf cap. It charges to 160 and when the switch is released, dumps to the coil. Should I use a stepdown xmfr to a lesser voltage? ( sorry my electronics are a bit rusty)
Dave
(I tried a 820 uf cap...one hellava spark!)
Firstly thanks to Luc for coming up with this thread and then to the others for developing the idea further.
I really enjoyed building something that actually worked for a change.
I believe I have successfully replicated Luc's and Ossie's circuits and have been able to get consistently good sparks, and louder ones with water mist.
The salt water (or potassium hydroxide) circuit from Ossie gave the best spark. I then built a cylinder out of a clear 1" diameter plastic tube and using conductive water was able to blow a small foam plug out about 2metres (6'). The spark gap was fed with a syringe, 1 drop per spark explosion.
There is obviously not enough force to move anything heavier like a metal cylinder, so I went searching on the net and came across this Tesla circuit which shows a spark powered piston /cylinder arrangement. Obviously the experts amongst you must have come across this before. I was wondering if anyone has tried building it, and if there is any information regarding coil and capacitor specs.
I have also attached some pictures of my replications for your information.
Cheers
Sam
@SPP-48
Your circuit diagram is Tesla Patent 609250 which is quite different from conventional ignition circuits. Tesla utilizes a self induction coil (H) to charge capacitor (G) when contacts (a,b) are opened.What is not readily apparent is that when contacts (a,b) are closed there are two series circuits present---- one consisting of capacitor G, self inductance coil H and the source battery. The other series circuit consisting of capacitor G, primary F and contacts a,b. If the coil H were to have a high self inductance and the capacitor G a small capacity then G could be charged to very high voltages prior to discharging through primary F where it is stepped up yet again through K. We should also consider the difference between charging capacitor G with the source current alone versus an inductive discharge current from self inductance coil H. Tesla and T.H Moray made statements regarding the fact that if a resilient medium were disrupted in some way this medium could produce oscillations and we assumed they were making reference to qualities inherent in LC circuits. But if we considered capacitor G as having properties of oscillation within itself and without (external field interactions) as if an electrostatically charged drum skin were struck then discharged we could see these internal oscillations would travel within the discharging current and effect the qualities of the current .
@SPP-48
Your circuit diagram is Tesla Patent 609250 which is quite different from conventional ignition circuits. Tesla utilizes a self induction coil (H) to charge capacitor (G) when contacts (a,b) are opened.What is not readily apparent is that when contacts (a,b) are closed there are two series circuits present---- one consisting of capacitor G, self inductance coil H and the source battery. The other series circuit consisting of capacitor G, primary F and contacts a,b. If the coil H were to have a high self inductance and the capacitor G a small capacity then G could be charged to very high voltages prior to discharging through primary F where it is stepped up yet again through K. We should also consider the difference between charging capacitor G with the source current alone versus an inductive discharge current from self inductance coil H. Tesla and T.H Moray made statements regarding the fact that if a resilient medium were disrupted in some way this medium could produce oscillations and we assumed they were making reference to qualities inherent in LC circuits. But if we considered capacitor G as having properties of oscillation within itself and without (external field interactions) as if an electrostatically charged drum skin were struck then discharged we could see these internal oscillations would travel within the discharging current and effect the qualities of the current .
Please elaborate.I take it you are refering to the qualities of oscillation?
@ Sam
Is it possible for you to "hang" (hold on to) this drop of water .... and place it into the radius of the plasma effect?
I've been very curious to know the explosive effect with this much water available to the plasma
without "drenching" or simply "wetting" the electrodes.
@Grumpy, I take it you are refering to the qualities of oscillation?
Reading the patent, it's quite simple with no references to anything out of the ordinary. A large part of the patent deals with the commutation method in which the contacts are connected to the connecting rod so as to be activiated by the movement of the piston.I think you know as well as I do that a good patent lawyer will protect the spirit of an invention while giving very little in the way of understaning to the layman nor those "skilled in the art". If you look at the patent you will find a self inductance coil H charging a capacitor, the capacitor is then discharged through the short primary of a step-up transformer. This is Teslas "method of conversion" and you will see it in more than a few of Teslas patents if you know what to look for. If this is indeed just another ignition transformer why use the self inductance coil H -- it is not needed.
Where is the oscillation? - the circuit is just charged and discharged.
Thank you allcanadian for your time and explanation of what is going on in this circuit.
Would you know what the purpose of d, C , B , A and L (as circled below) are doing in this circuit
@GrumpyI think you know as well as I do that a good patent lawyer will protect the spirit of an invention while giving very little in the way of understaning to the layman nor those "skilled in the art". If you look at the patent you will find a self inductance coil H charging a capacitor, the capacitor is then discharged through the short primary of a step-up transformer. This is Teslas "method of conversion" and you will see it in more than a few of Teslas patents if you know what to look for. If this is indeed just another ignition transformer why use the self inductance coil H -- it is not needed.
As well if we look at Gotoluc and quimans circuits you will find a "resilient" media in the circuit in the form of both a capacitor and the blocking diodes. The HV section of the ignition coil will see the low potential path to the capacitor and move towards it then the diodes slam closed producing a high potential short wave period shock wave on the capacitor, the capacitor then discharges through the only other route----the spark gap. Here we can use a simple analogy---- strike a drum and hold the striker on the drum (DC current)and there are very few oscillations, but if we strike the drum and quickly remove the striker the oscillations will continue. In my experiments with gotoluc's circuit I have produced discharges having qualities I have never seen before, the discharge is a brilliant white with a volume and length many times greater than the capacitor itself could ever seem to produce. The question I think we should be asking is what process has changed the qualities of the discharge and how can we improve this process?.
Counsel
What I wanted to get at was, did that depend upon the suddenness of the discharge?
Tesla
Yes. It is merely the electrical analogue of a pile driver or a hammer. You accumulate energy through a long distance and then you deliver it with a tremendous suddenness. The distance through which the mass moves is small?the pressure immense.
Counsel
Did you find that that was the best condition for transmitting energy without the use of wire?
Tesla
No, I did not use that method when I was transmitting energy. I used it only in the production of those freaks for which I have been called a magician. If I had used merely undamped waves, I would have been an ordinary electrician like everybody else.
The questions one should ask are what exactly is ignited? where are the intake/exhaust valves?----it seems there is no means whatsoever for anything to enter or exit the sealed chamber?
If I have any advice to give I would recommend ignoring what you "see" and concentrate on the qualities of the components, what is there function? How do they apply in the circuit? How does this circuit relate to the one you posted?
So, no one is getting the "S1R effect" yet?
@everyone,
below (in blue) is a copy of a post I made at the Energetic Forum (Water Sparkplug Topic): http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2242-water-sparkplug-16.html
@Peter Lindemann and Aaron, great work and testing on the gas engine. To see you can lean down the engine to the carburetors max shows very promising results to make ICE much more efficient. This is what Robert Krupa (Firestom Spark Plug) has also found that he could actually Lean Down an ICE during testing of his plugs (with special coil and driver) down to 30:1 and the exhaust temperature would also go down. Please listen to his most recent (June 2nd 2008) interview: http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/shows/show_207413.mp3
I think what we have here is great since we are starting to see the same effects as he has found but with a much simpler circuit, a stock coil and standard Spark Plug. This is why I was testing his Spark Plug concept!... to see if it had any benefit with our effect. I found none what so ever. The spark finds a single shortest point and does a discharge just like a standard Plug. That is why Krupa talks about a driver and a big coil is needed to make his Firestorm Plug work. It will only spark at multiple points when the coil is pulsed at high speed. That is what I found in my tests. So anyone who is thinking if only I had Krupa's Firestorm Spark Plugs in my engine I would get better economy is dreaming . They would do just like a standard plug (one spark) if you do not have a high Performance coil and coil driver. So with all this said, I think we have something big here and we should all focus on testing and developing this further.
I really like the idea YouTube user revizal had, trying Diesel on a gas engine (which should not work under normal circumstances) and the fact that he says the Exhaust had no smoke shows that we have found a very useful use for the circuit. As you know Diesel has a higher energy content than gas so it would require less fuel.
Last night I was telling my friend Rick Price that I was going to start testing on my lawn mower engine with gas fumes and water moisture.
To get gas fumes, I would use a large container stuffed with stainless steel pot scrubbers or you can use a large flat air filter to have the gas contact over a large surface area which will greatly increase the gas to change to vapor. The container would have an adjustable intake and an output tube to the carburetor. For the water moisture I have a cold vapor ultrasonic humidifier that I'll use for that. I will test to find the best blend of the two. We can also test with sending the exhaust back in the input just like the GEET system.
I am very hopeful that together we will find a much more Efficient way to make an ICE work with this circuit and finding the best blend of capacitor size with fuel and water ratio.
I'm very happy with all the great work everyone has contributed.
Luc
@ everyone,
please have a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u0SZt0h43w
It looks to me like he is using the Water Power circuit. He is running Diesel Fuel in a Gas motor and claims no smoke output. Read his comment below.
Luc
In my first application on plasma spark ignition ; I'm using diesel fuel on gasoline genset by using plasma spark from 47 uF 250 Volt. It was still bad setup that I have, but good progress because no smoke out from exhaust. Later, I will introduce water in the carb.
Is he taking note of the waste spark on the intake stroke. It may be causing the rough idle. A regular car ICE wouldn't have that waste spark getting in the way.
Is there a transcript available for this broadcast?
So, looking at the original S1R sketches:
It looks like he is just switching the half-wave 110 and the ignition spark through the relay contacts at the same time - same direction.
Where does that wierd coil fit in?
@goldenequityThanks Sam..... even 1 Drop is alot .... true! Thanks for the attempt :)
I ran the water droplet test as you suggested. The results were not promising, although still interesting. I was not able to use the spark plug as the droplet could not get close enough without jumping to the electrodes. I used tungsten electrodes with a wider gap. Using distilled water.
I have attached a small video taken with my still camera, so the quality is poor and was not able to show the true intensity of the spark. The video was edited to show only the spark action.
The first spark is with no water, then the droplet, and finally a water mist spray which seems to be the most effective in increasing the spark size and noise.
It is interesting to see how the spark is affecting the droplet, without exploding it. It is obviously an issue of scale. The droplet was too big. In the end, the motion created by the spark caused it to fall. This seems to confirm that misting, or fogging is best.
Cheers
Sam
gotoluc,
Tried to post this to you at the energetic forum - water sparkplug thread for all to see, but it must take awhile for new accounts to be activated with priveledges. Maybe this will be of assistance?
RIDICULOUSLY SENSITIVE
ELECTRIC CHARGE DETECTOR
http://amasci.com/emotor/chargdet.html
This simple circuit can detect the invisible fields of voltage which surround all electrified objects. It acts as an electronic "electroscope."
Keep up the good work!
IndianaBoys
If you read the patent, Tesla syas he left out the other engine components becuase they were not necessary to explain the operation of the ignition circuit, and he says gas or explosive mixture several times.LOL, I can't sneak anything by you ;D I wonder how many people read the patent?
Anyone tried to just remove the earth (ground) electrode from the sparkplug and let it fire in a circle like a halo plug (or marine plug) with this plasma circuit?
Also, has anyone tried this plasma ignition in an engine with gasoline as normal. Does it improve mpg or increase power-- as Krupa says? I would like to run my car with water, but for now, I'll settle for improved performance using gasoline. I'm able to lean my fuel / air ratio - > disconnect both O2 sensors and then put a variable resistor on the intake air temp. sensor. Anyone have circuit for a multi-cylinder?
I agree with Luc, I think that firestorm plugs are more about the "electronics" than the plugs themselves other than for long life ->( fire around different points on the ball -> normal plug electrode would wear (burn) away too fast). Do we have any specifics as to the volts, current, (maybe even component names) or anything that Krupa uses to fire his plugs?
thanks,
needful
Hi peter here
I have taken on the plasma arc project now .Though im new here i have looked into most of your results and your progress is great. For me i have built a lv circuit and a hv circuit and am about to join them to gether i liken the hv setup to lightning ond the lv to thunder ,both have been around since the dawn of time so it is about time we used them.pleses note there is an interesting post over at waterfuel1978 for a guy who lives near s1r and has personally visited him and his car , the best part is he is an engineer and will be trying to communicate to all in understandable english what s1r has done, see his recent posts in the messages section.he mentions s1rs coil and resonance and compares it to meyers VIC , THEN BRINGS IN A NEW TERM ELECTRON AVALANCHE - more options
Do we have any specifics as to the volts, current, (maybe even component names) or anything that Krupa uses to fire his plugs?
thanks,
needful
kalnai, I don't have that information wet!... but I do have on order the most powerful coil that MSD makes and once I receive that and do some tests I should have some numbers if it works with that coil. Krupa has said it needs a high performance coil. If others want to work on this here is the link to the coil I got, which is at a good price if you consider the free delivery to the US.
Link: http://projectmotorsport.com/store/product.php?productid=319&cat=0&page=1
Here is what MSD says about this coil: When the mad scientists at MSD were creating this 7-series ignition coil they pulled all of the good stuff out of their Pro-mag 44 coil and stuffed it into this one. The HVC-2 Coil produces 48,000 volts at a stout 2-amps with only .016 ohms of primary resistance! It utilizes an iron U-Core design with a segmented bobbin molded from Rynite and wound specifically for incredible voltage capabilities, lightning quick rise time and lengthy spark duration. The Rynite housing features far spaced brass primary terminals and a well protected secondary tower for increased spark isolation.
We shall see
Luc
Luc
Are you sure that your coil is a stand alone device?
It looks to me like it was made to work with an ignition box like this one .
http://www.msdignition.com/product.aspx?id=5843
To me the most interesting thing about this combanation is that it fires for 20 degrees .
It seems to me that firing 20 degrees would take care of most of the timing problems .
All we would have to do is add some LV at the plug .
Something other than a standard inverter might be needed for the LV
At 60 HZ you would have alot of HV only firings
gary
Hi guys,
Sorry, I have not taken the time to read the last posts.
Perhaps am I 'out of date'?
Anyway, I have made a more accurate as possible replication of
the Peter Lindemann's experiment.
Guess what? It works...
(http://freenrg.info/Pic/Experiment_1_2_small.jpg)
With the diodes (15 * 1N5408) disconnected I get very tiny sparks.
With the diodes connected, the sparks are more important and 'sonorous'.
With a mist of water the sparks are also more important.
When I put too much water the phenomenon stops (not more sparks)..
I Will try with a mist made from an "ultrasonic mister" ??? :
(http://freenrg.info/Pic/Brumisateur.jpg)
More picture at : http://freenrg.info/Water_Power/My_Replication/ (http://freenrg.info/Water_Power/My_Replication/)
Best
@everyone,Luc,
I just uploaded a video but I have no time to write about it since I'm now on my way out for most of the evening.
I will answer questions late this evening when I return.
Luc
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvJVbA8Upvs
Luc,
See the attached xls sheet for Capacitor Energy calculations.
Hi vlindos, thank you for bringing your understanding of capacitor charging to my attention. EE is not my field of work, I am learning as I go! so thank you for sharing ;)
It was pleasure ;) I am not EE specialist either, there is bulgarian variant of this forum where the people are kind enough to share knowledge too.
Here is slightly uppdated sheet (I am posting it here because the forum isn't give me permissions to modify my post).
Luc I see you having number of different test, but still you didn't seem to trying to replicate the cap70 coil circuit. Why won't you give a try - I am trying to replicate it but number of problems occurs and the only people that use it successefuly appears be offline last few days.
Attached picture is the circuit that I am trying. Here are my observations. If the LV part of circuit if off (no AC) a tiny spark appear at SP1 a definately lighter/noisier spark at SP2, the disadvantage is that ratio of the spark is lesser than if there was no capacitors/traf. If I put the LV on. A bigbang HV spark apears at SP2 once, and then it reverts to the lighter/noisier spark, but the tiny spark at SP1 gets much much lighter (but no noise there). I guess the big capacitor is discharging there instead at SP2.
Anyone paid attention the last part of my text - thanks ;D
Hi vlindos, thanks again for your information. I will take down or editing that video since the Capacitor information will be misleading to others that may not know or understand the correct formula as I also did not understand it also.
@everyone, I found an online Capacitor Joule calculator if anyone is interested in saving it to your Favorites for when needed.
Calculator Link: Electronics 2000 | Capacitor Charge / Energy Calculator
Yes, Capacitor70. A brilliant EE man. You know, you are the first to ask me about him ;D. I think the work he has done is wonderful and wish everyone could follow his great sharing example. His first posts are what brought my attention back to looking at an attempt of a S1R replication. The picture below is his and the red circle I added is what cough my attention and it is interesting that you ask this at this time because of the above post on Papp's engine test.
The circuit I have at this time is enough to keep me busy full time. I find that many things need to be tested before moving to something else.
Luc
Luc, Cap70's image you are referring to is simply a "trick" of the camera, do to the frames per second. What happens is the very last billionth of a second of the last frame has cought a image, and now its has over lapped the next frame. If you examine the thing that you circled in red, its actually the top of the plug.....and that frame is not moving away just as the next frame is shot.The eye is easy to deceive due to the image persistance effect. Look at a bright light for a few seconds and then close your eyes. You will likely percieve the fading image of the bright spot for a second or so afterwards.
Luc, Cap70's image you are referring to is simply a "trick" of the camera, do to the frames per second. What happens is the very last billionth of a second of the last frame has cought a image, and now its has over lapped the next frame. If you examine the thing that you circled in red, its actually the top of the plug.....and that frame is not moving away just as the next frame is shot.
kalnai, I don't have that information wet!... but I do have on order the most powerful coil that MSD makes and once I receive that and do some tests I should have some numbers if it works with that coil. Krupa has said it needs a high performance coil. If others want to work on this here is the link to the coil I got, which is at a good price if you consider the free delivery to the US.
Link: http://projectmotorsport.com/store/product.php?productid=319&cat=0&page=1
Here is what MSD says about this coil: When the mad scientists at MSD were creating this 7-series ignition coil they pulled all of the good stuff out of their Pro-mag 44 coil and stuffed it into this one. The HVC-2 Coil produces 48,000 volts at a stout 2-amps with only .016 ohms of primary resistance! It utilizes an iron U-Core design with a segmented bobbin molded from Rynite and wound specifically for incredible voltage capabilities, lightning quick rise time and lengthy spark duration. The Rynite housing features far spaced brass primary terminals and a well protected secondary tower for increased spark isolation.
We shall see
Luc
I was basically laughed at when I mentioned this coil several weeks ago. :-\
Shame you can't borrow the camera that took this awesome footage of lightning in slow-mo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7--Q9-OH8
Shame you can't borrow the camera that took this awesome footage of lightning in slow-mo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7--Q9-OH8
Another good vid, Luc.
Appreciate your hard work, again.
These discharge experiments are more closely related to natural phenomenon than one might expect. The association of the "sprite" with the discharge is IMO a natural association.
In the last 10 years, "sprites" have been studied in great detail by meteorologists, with the aid of satellites. It is well documented that these sprites are directly associated with thunderstorms in general, and lightning discharge activity in particular.
The sprites appear well above the discharge zone of cloud to ground and cloud to cloud lightning discharges, and are incredibly large in volume.
The actual colour of the sprites can vary, according to a number of atmospheric/charge variables.
The study of these sprites has raised more questions about the nature of lighning than it has answered. In fact, in a recent interview, the CEO of the Australian Bureau of Meteorology, candidly revealed, that after the recent meeting of world wide meterological experts in Canberra, the general consensus remained, that they still know very little about the true mechanisms of lightning creation by nature.
Now many plasma experts are theorising that lightning is not primarily the result of charge building up in the clouds due to previously commonly accepted principles, but rather, the clouds/atmospheric conditions merely provide a convenient discharge path for ionised particles borne by or created by the solar wind (plasma), in which the earth is constantly bathed. In other words, lightning is directly driven by the ionised plasma from the sun not from molecular electrostatic action within the clouds.
Either way, the sprites are worthy of study in their own right, and may help to piece together an understanding of the whole nature of high energy plasma discharges.
Cheers keep up the good work all.
Thanks hoptoad for the information you just shared.Your welcome. Any technology that mimics nature is likely to be a successful one.
Luc
P.S. Video footage from satellites has shown that the sprites appear to precede the lightning. Sound familiar ?Sorry, I misinterpreted the intial info I read on the timing of natural sprite formations. They actually follow a major lightning strike, not precede it.
yep just managed to finish a modified version of cap70 design a have got a working unit with regular plasma discharges.This design is great ,no diodes ,running off wall ac for the lv circuit ,just was a matter of getting the right combo of caps,in the right size/rating.This circuit has an ignition switch and manually controlled points setup -- Now the next step those marine plugs and a switching device for the [points] and onto a b&s motor 8)
Hi NerzhDishual, great build there ;) ..................
Excellent work. Luc
I have followed this thread since it was first posted and have now finally read every post on the 34 pages... phew... it has been so exciting to see so many positive people all trying to get this working to make some difference in the world, so for that I wish to thank everyone
I am not very skilled in electronics or machining parts so I feel I am limited to what I can achieve but I can do what I can and will share anything I find
about the spark plugs... I have seen standard plugs (with resistor removed), homemade 2x nails spark gap, homemade plug, homemade firestorm plug for use in the experiment and they seem to work but I wanted to find some info on more nonstandard types that could be used with better effects for this circuit
I have drawn a diagram(attached) of a plug type that I would like to test but have no real way of doing so at the moment, it is based on what I understand from a plasma gasification unit and my thought is that with the gap set up along the length we can have a longer spark and more surface area along the walls for the water to become effected into the spark and hopefully have more power to drive a piston... it is drawn twice, the bottom version I was trying to shorten the plug so there is less volume of air that could be compressed and cause less pressure
the arrow in the 2d picture shows the water spray nozzle, the idea is that it would spray in between firings down the tube but have a valve that prevents any pressure from travelling back up the pipe, also the pipe would have to be insulated to prevent the spark grounding back up the water supply
from what I can tell this would be a new kind of spark plug... I have tried searching but didn't find anything like it so it would have to be made from scratch
let me know if anything like this exists or if you think it has problems with anything thanks
Hi Luc and others,
Heres a link to work Athal has been doing on coaxial spark plugs to produce ball lightning.
It occurs to me that maybe this is the pivotal point - Telsa did this and produced ball lightning.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WaterFuel1978/files/ATHAL/
I dont have the time so maybe someone can pick this up.
FWIW - normal silicon sealant might be a good cheap insulator for making such a spark plug. I havent measured cured silicons resistance, but there must be stuff for electrical work we could use thats cheap.
Cheers,
Steve.
yep just managed to finish a modified version of cap70 design a have got a working unit with regular plasma discharges.This design is great ,no diodes ,running off wall ac for the lv circuit ,just was a matter of getting the right combo of caps,in the right size/rating.This circuit has an ignition switch and manually controlled points setup -- Now the next step those marine plugs and a switching device for the [points] and onto a b&s motor 8)
Hi Peteroks, I will attempt to build cap70 design this week. Is there anyway you could post some pics of your build?
I have followed this thread since it was first posted and have now finally read every post on the 34 pages... phew... it has been so exciting to see so many positive people all trying to get this working to make some difference in the world, so for that I wish to thank everyone
I am not very skilled in electronics or machining parts so I feel I am limited to what I can achieve but I can do what I can and will share anything I find
about the spark plugs... I have seen standard plugs (with resistor removed), homemade 2x nails spark gap, homemade plug, homemade firestorm plug for use in the experiment and they seem to work but I wanted to find some info on more nonstandard types that could be used with better effects for this circuit
I have drawn a diagram(attached) of a plug type that I would like to test but have no real way of doing so at the moment, it is based on what I understand from a plasma gasification unit and my thought is that with the gap set up along the length we can have a longer spark and more surface area along the walls for the water to become effected into the spark and hopefully have more power to drive a piston... it is drawn twice, the bottom version I was trying to shorten the plug so there is less volume of air that could be compressed and cause less pressure
the arrow in the 2d picture shows the water spray nozzle, the idea is that it would spray in between firings down the tube but have a valve that prevents any pressure from travelling back up the pipe, also the pipe would have to be insulated to prevent the spark grounding back up the water supply
from what I can tell this would be a new kind of spark plug... I have tried searching but didn't find anything like it so it would have to be made from scratch
let me know if anything like this exists or if you think it has problems with anything thanks
Welcome AKA
I have been thinking along the same lines as you .
I made a quick drawing of a similar idea .
I made the anode black .
The idea is to keep the anode mostly dry .
This design would spey the water across the ramps at the cathode .
The arc should hit the water near the center of the chamber .
It is not intended for the arc to hit all the water .
I think a mix of plasma and water drops intering the cylinder would be ideal .
I almost went back and made a change.
I was thinking that removing one of the blue water tubes would make room for a wire to the cathode .
If the wire was internal then the plug shell could be nuteral . ..................
I think if we ground both HV and LV on the engine someone is eventually going to make a mistake and end up charcoal .
Hi Luc,
please look up this thread here from the beginning and contact member nul-points for this :
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4419.0.html (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4419.0.html)
Regards
Kator
hi Luc
interesting setup!
i looked at your vid about the cap voltage anomaly
it seems to me that at the moments when you read out "300V" the DVM reading is instantaneously ONE THOUSAND and something - is that possible on that range?
could someone else take a look at the vid - maybe in slomo? - it certainly looks to me like there is a leading 1 in the left-hand 4th digit for the instant you say '300'
thanks NerzhDishual & Kator for linking me in to this phenomenon - i think its probably related to the effect which NerzhDishual and i (and lately others, like Introvertebrate on YT, too) have observed when switching charge between capacitors
conventional ElectroDynamics indicates that theoretically 50% of the supply energy in charging a capacitor to a given amount should be dissipated - as heat or radiation - in order to do the work of charging the cap
however, it seems to be accepted that some of this loss can be reduced by introducing an inductive element into the charging path - so what is this saying - that it is now possible to do the same work with less energy?!?
imagine rolling a stone up a hill - you do work to get the stone up the hill and when it's at the top it also has some potential energy of its own, which can be released by dropping or rolling the stone off the hill
that's the original conventional story
now someone comes along and says "push the stone up the hill, a few steps at a time and using this spring - the stone will still have the same potential energy but you won't have to do so much work to get it to the top"
doesn't sound likely, does it? but that is exactly what's happening with these caps which we're charging up by switching current into it thro' a coil
with careful attention to adding a load into the charge path, it's possible to make use of the charging energy AND use the potential energy which gets stored in the cap too - this brings you to around unity (minus usual I^2 x R losses)
however, we've found that something funky is going on in the switched charge transfer process which appears to be giving more charge out than in - so now you can have around unity PLUS significant gain = OVERunity
i've noted this informally on a dedicated website
http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc and also started a thread (as referenced by Kator above - for which thanks)
i started out experimenting with switched charge to caps because H. Aspden predicted that it may be possible to get more energy out of a charged cap than is supplied, due to a 'spin inertia' effect of the vacuum medium/'aether'/energetic plenum - the fundamental energy 'lattice' which he and many others (including in the past, Maxwell & Einstein) believe permeates all space - when subject to a pulsed polarisation
at first it seemed highly unlikely to me, but i've had to admit that this effect is real - and the best explanation conventional science can offer is 'measurement error'! ;)
i suspect that you're seeing much increased gain than those of us just looking at the switched carge anomaly because you're using a relay (true switch) whereas the switches in my tests & those of others, looking at the same phenomenon, are usually Transistor or MOSFET
not sure that i've really added anything here but good 'luc' in all your efforts :)
all the best
sandy
PS - i've just written this in response to Kator & NerzhDishual's suggestion that there might be some link between the effect you asked for input on and the results which several of us have been getting with switched charge experiments - in the meantime i see you've looked at my results whilst i've been writing this post - and unfortunately you don't seem interested - c'est la vie ;o(
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site
http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
Anyway , first measure-methods have to be revised and a drawing would be helpful, so we can duplicate exactly.Personally I don't take very many measurements as they tend to be misleading in most cases with the circuits in question. I prefer understanding the qualities of the components over measurement, in the case of an inductive discharge the voltage can pass through a coil (analog meter) with little or no reaction while a digital meter will show only remnants of an impulse that has already passed and any measurement depends on the components of the meter itself. One misunderstanding concerns the inductance itself, if we consider an inductance as having inertia or momentum then it should be obvious that two forces must develop when the source current is removed from an inductance. One force compresses ahead of the inductance producing high potentials in an infinitely small time frame, the other force expands behind the inductance producing high potentials in an infinitely small time frame. This is something I do not think you will ever measure accurately to any degree, you have to "know" what is happening through understanding the qualities of the components and the ways energy can be transformed. It may be helpfull to understand that the two forces produced in an inductive discharge ( Compression-Expansion ) can be seperated to some extent and produce reactions in and of themselves if certain criteria are met. To prove this fact we can use an ignition coil to raise the potential of the source current, the ignition coil will discharge (arc) to the (+) source terminal, it will discharge to the (-) source terminal, it will also discharge to the metallic end of a screwdriver or any metal object having no relation to the circuit producing the discharge. But we should remember that if we believe that a compression must also be balanced by an expansion as we see everywhere in nature then this arc discharge to the screwdrivers metal end only represents one half of the energy present. ;D
@Kator01Personally I don't take very many measurements as they tend to be misleading in most cases with the circuits in question. I prefer understanding the qualities of the components over measurement, in the case of an inductive discharge the voltage can pass through a coil (analog meter) with little or no reaction while a digital meter will show only remnants of an impulse that has already passed and any measurement depends on the components of the meter itself. One misunderstanding concerns the inductance itself, if we consider an inductance as having inertia or momentum then it should be obvious that two forces must develop when the source current is removed from an inductance. One force compresses ahead of the inductance producing high potentials in an infinitely small time frame, the other force expands behind the inductance producing high potentials in an infinitely small time frame. This is something I do not think you will ever measure accurately to any degree, you have to "know" what is happening through understanding the qualities of the components and the ways energy can be transformed. It may be helpfull to understand that the two forces produced in an inductive discharge ( Compression-Expansion ) can be seperated to some extent and produce reactions in and of themselves if certain criteria are met. To prove this fact we can use an ignition coil to raise the potential of the source current, the ignition coil will discharge (arc) to the (+) source terminal, it will discharge to the (-) source terminal, it will also discharge to the metallic end of a screwdriver or any metal object having no relation to the circuit producing the discharge. But we should remember that if we believe that a compression must also be balanced by an expansion as we see everywhere in nature then this arc discharge to the screwdrivers metal end only represents one half of the energy present. ;D
kalnai, I don't have that information wet!... but I do have on order the most powerful coil that MSD makes and once I receive that and do some tests I should have some numbers if it works with that coil. Krupa has said it needs a high performance coil. If others want to work on this here is the link to the coil I got, which is at a good price if you consider the free delivery to the US.
Link: http://projectmotorsport.com/store/product.php?productid=319&cat=0&page=1
Here is what MSD says about this coil: When the mad scientists at MSD were creating this 7-series ignition coil they pulled all of the good stuff out of their Pro-mag 44 coil and stuffed it into this one. The HVC-2 Coil produces 48,000 volts at a stout 2-amps with only .016 ohms of primary resistance! It utilizes an iron U-Core design with a segmented bobbin molded from Rynite and wound specifically for incredible voltage capabilities, lightning quick rise time and lengthy spark duration. The Rynite housing features far spaced brass primary terminals and a well protected secondary tower for increased spark isolation.
We shall see
Luc
Just a thought, how about using a tesla turbine with this set up? use a water injector and hit it with the spark/plasma discharge?
I am working with Krupa on the plugs. They use a special alloy that does not wear down like other plugs, and they give a plasma effect much easier than other plugs. High performance ignition is used just as he stated previously. Energy was stated previously as 1 joule or more. This of course is a stout supply and coil that can handle that level of energy input.
hi Luc
glad the cap after the FWBR helped
what value & rating cap did you use for C1?
if you haven't added D2 i would strongly recommend it, if you intend to keep the relay in the circuit## - it will significantly reduce degradation of the relay switch contacts! - also adds the flyback energy from coil into your charging cap (C2), but i don't know if you're trying to be energy-conscious with the circuit at the moment
very interesting side-effects from your Krupa replication - would be interesting to know if the powered-off unit which showed LCD being energised would still behave the same if you could house it in some kind of faraday cage
Hello Luc,
It would helpful if you could make a simple hand-drawing of the complete circuit so that we are not left speculating on this effect. It is important to knwo the exact figures of your leading coil ( L in Henry ), the max switch-amperage and volatage of the relais, values of the HV-Diodes and inductance of the primary ingnition-coil.
Also any digital-meter fails in showing the exact values while measuring pulse-modes. Although I accept your reluctance to get a bit more "scientific" I can assure you that it is very important to learn the minimum of methods known in electronics. I myself have lost a lage amount of time in "barking at the wrong tree" - so to say.
I agree on what nul-point was saying about your observation.
Input current is measured best be detecting the voltage-drop across a low-value resistor ( 1 Ohm, 25 Watt ) either with a true RMS meter in AC-mode before the rectifier or in DC-mode after the rectifier.
The link fo yours above does not work today, its says the server lead the enquiery around somewhere so it can never be answered
Anyway , first measure-methods have to be revised and a drawing would be helpful, so we can duplicate exactly.
Kator
Hi UncleFester, thank you for letting us know that you are working with Mr. Krupa and about the special alloy needed for the plugs to last.
Do you think the MSD coil I chose will give good results?
Does Mr. Krupa know about this simple circuit wet?
Thanks for sharing
Luc
Hello Luc,
It would helpful if you could make a simple hand-drawing of the complete circuit so that we are not left speculating on this effect. It is important to knwo the exact figures of your leading coil ( L in Henry ), the max switch-amperage and volatage of the relais, values of the HV-Diodes and inductance of the primary ingnition-coil.
Also any digital-meter fails in showing the exact values while measuring pulse-modes. Although I accept your reluctance to get a bit more "scientific" I can assure you that it is very important to learn the minimum of methods known in electronics. I myself have lost a lage amount of time in "barking at the wrong tree" - so to say.
I agree on what nul-point was saying about your observation.
Input current is measured best be detecting the voltage-drop across a low-value resistor ( 1 Ohm, 25 Watt ) either with a true RMS meter in AC-mode before the rectifier or in DC-mode after the rectifier.
The link fo yours above does not work today, its says the server lead the enquiery around somewhere so it can never be answered
Anyway , first measure-methods have to be revised and a drawing would be helpful, so we can duplicate exactly.
Kator
Hi Luc :)
I was wondering if there is any steam pressure develloped in the proces?
If so then maybe it is possible to directly drive turbines or the like or something in the o'l steam engine fashion at a low cost since we do not need to actually boil the water first?
I will catch you guys up on the experiments soon.
Marco.
We have used the MSD Blaster 2 and Blaster 3 on his plugs and they both work well, with the enhanced spark setup and without. Tests were run in the 20Hz to 300Hz range fired by a large Mosfet with snubbers on the output. Voltages from 10 to 150 volts were used and his plug seems to produce a more pronounced plasma compared to regular plugs. I have used up to 220uF flash caps but blew mosfets out under the larger capacitive discharges. I am switching to an SCR driven system like Lee's (AKA SMW1989A) for more robustness. We have also exploded water using the genuine Firestorm and the other brands and they work similar although the Firestorm explodes the water under much less energy than the others. We used Bosch platinum and many of the champion line and they just don't create the same plasma effect under the same energy levels. Almost appears to the eye that the Firestorm plugs create a ball of plasma inside the cage and you get flashes of flame? extending outside the cage as well. Similar to what you see in his earlier videos. Most of those tests were on run under 800mJ energy levels after the mosfets blew. We used the MSD ignition driver (Digital-6 Plus) which is half the energy rating we need. We have Crane cams drivers coming which are capable of 1.2 Joules. We will use those as a backup to the SCR driven and variac fed power supply we are building.
Once I have the large SCR bench test system up I will tell you of the results from the 2 to 6 joule range firing. Hopefully we can run constantly and really get some good test data from it. I'm not sure if Krupa's investor will allow us to post videos etc, but we will try to give basic data from the tests. The plugs should be in manufacturing shortly, although not any of the companies in the US or Bosch etc want to manufacture them for us because they last too long and they would not make any money from them (according to Bosch and others). Thankfully we have other options for production.
hi Luc
[edit: sorry, wrote this before i saw you've posted a schematic]
i'm not sure that you've given me the value for C1 (the cap immediately following the bridge)? you mention about the 6.8uF giving a louder bang, so i guess you're actually talking about C2
the cap C1, following the bridge gets charged to the peak voltage of the rectified AC anyway, and with suitable value for the cap should remain there, approx (it gets recharged back to peak on the next rectified AC half-cycle)
it will have some ripple on the voltage each time the relay (or SS switch) charges C2 - but as long as C1 is sufficiently higher-valued than C2 then C1 won't lose too much voltage each time C2 gets charged (so, you could try, say, around 100uF for C1)
really no need to synchronize cap charging to the rectified AC waveform - un-necessary complexity!
it's possible that the difference in bang-per-uF between your 6.8uF & 22uF caps could be due to different internal series resistance (ESR) in the two caps (which might be greater in the polarised electrolytic than in the non-polarised cap - think of it as leaving some resistance in the spark plug, say)
if you stay with the relay as a switch, i'd recommend using D2 anyway, to help prolong its switch contact life - even if it doesn't show any benefit from extra flyback energy - i suggested HV diode but actually a 1N400x type would probably be ok - only has to be rated at just above peak rectified AC for its reverse voltage
thanks for the info about the LCDs/Faraday cage - was interested to see if there was a direct influence on the display crystal medium - but it sounds like its more an RF effect if it relies on the presence of the wires of the affected device - antenna action
on the general subject of water-plasma explosive force - have you ever seen any info about longitudinal force caused by current flow?
doesn't seem to be that widely known in conventional electro-physics, but wire can be made to disintegrate energetically under high current loads - it breaks into segments lengthways - apparently rail-gun experiments have to take this into account otherwise the rails get buckled outwards by the current across the sled/axles between the rails
so - i guess there is an equivalent lengthways force in ANY conductor (plasma/water/copper, etc) - though it might be of interest
[late edit: ...just seen you've got your switch after the coil - can i suggest you try placing the coil AFTER the relay switch (as in my schematic, i think) & using D2 positioned & polarised as shown there - you certainly won't get any flyback energy from the coil if it's separated from C2 by the switch - other than by sparking across your relay switch - not good!]
cordialement
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
I have followed this thread since it was first posted and have now finally read every post on the 34 pages... phew... it has been so exciting to see so many positive people all trying to get this working to make some difference in the world, so for that I wish to thank everyone
I am not very skilled in electronics or machining parts so I feel I am limited to what I can achieve but I can do what I can and will share anything I find
about the spark plugs... I have seen standard plugs (with resistor removed), homemade 2x nails spark gap, homemade plug, homemade firestorm plug for use in the experiment and they seem to work but I wanted to find some info on more nonstandard types that could be used with better effects for this circuit
I have drawn a diagram(attached) of a plug type that I would like to test but have no real way of doing so at the moment, it is based on what I understand from a plasma gasification unit and my thought is that with the gap set up along the length we can have a longer spark and more surface area along the walls for the water to become effected into the spark and hopefully have more power to drive a piston... it is drawn twice, the bottom version I was trying to shorten the plug so there is less volume of air that could be compressed and cause less pressure
the arrow in the 2d picture shows the water spray nozzle, the idea is that it would spray in between firings down the tube but have a valve that prevents any pressure from travelling back up the pipe, also the pipe would have to be insulated to prevent the spark grounding back up the water supply
from what I can tell this would be a new kind of spark plug... I have tried searching but didn't find anything like it so it would have to be made from scratch
let me know if anything like this exists or if you think it has problems with anything thanks
. Your plug looks like a good design to try, I just need to figure out a cheap insulator that will stand up to the punishment.
I made a hand drawn circuit. If you or anyone else can make a clean one that would be great since I can include it at my first page as an update.
I have cleaned the image for you, no changes have been made just straight lines and neat coils :)
if you need any changes let me know... its pretty easy to remake, infact any hand drawn circuits you need "cleaning" (in this topic) I can do for you
hi Luc
...apologies - when i posted my schematic yesterday (before your existing circuit was posted just above), i imagined that you were charging your 6u8F cap with the relay, then switching that cap into the auto-coil with a separate switch
as you're using a SPDT to do all the switching (and now i see why your new thread today is asking for a SS SPDT!) my schematic doesn't match your circuit arrangement - your auto-coil would prevent the 6u8F from charging in my schematic, if there's no second switch
so - if you keep to one SPDT switch (either mechanical or SS) your bridge to cap inductor has to be on the bridge side of the switch as you have it now and any protection diode would have to be in parallel with the inductor (+ve towards bridge) to help preserve the relay switch contacts - no reclaim of flyback energy with this arrangement
if you do decide to use Tr or MOSFET switching then you don't need to have this SPDT arrangement - you can have one switch between bridge & inductor - and the other switch between 6u8F cap & auto-coil
so then you get to add D2, as in my schematic, before the inductor to reclaim flyback energy
all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
Okay so i was trying to see the effect when using vacuum tubes and all the meters go funky.
I charged a 470u to 500 volts and discharged it thrue my hand...
M.
My God Marco :o... are you okay ???... I thought that was enough to kill someone.
Please let us know if you will be alright :'(
Luc
Luc
Durability tested your simple circuit design with the spark plug. I have it automatically run with a continuous synchronous water atomizing spray on it. It works well until about an hour later when the switching relay started to give way. Think should have an electronic switching circuit to take over this.
Regards
unity2zero
Men it really hurt and my body was shaking for two hours.
But i will be fine. :)
I tried some high voltage vacuum tube rectifiers like the dy86 ,pd510 and the gy501 which can handle 18-25KV but they do have a warning on then for emitting X-rays so i held the geiger counter nearby.
The gy501 was the one that came best out of the test the heater only needs like 3 volts so i hooked it up to some battery's.
The dy86 burned out for some reason and it did not function long.
Anyway it all worked much better then using Silicon diodes which i was doing like half of the day.
I did not use any timing device i just placed a capacitor on the relay coil and switched the coil in series with it's own breaking contact , which works fine.
By varying the value of the capacitor the switch rate increases or decreases.
Also i did not use any mains or an inverter i just pulsed a simple 12 to 200v transformer from the battery which also works fine.
Marco.
Hello everyone,
Nice work.
I found this forum thread about 3 days ago while trying to find some hydrogen fuel information.
I've read every page of it. its remarkable what you have discovered.
I,m gathering the parts to build the circuit now . I hope to have it working this evening.
I,m no where near as knowledgeable as many of you here but I am willing to help any way I can.
I do have a few Ideas but I"m just trying to get up to speed with you guys right now.
Good luck and be safe. Will post again when I get my circuit up and running.
gourdman
@everyone
Here is a link to download a full size DV file of only the slow motion video part of the video I just posted above.
Link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MI18SMZ9
Luc
Thanks again for all the information. Have you seen my video on a 3/4" ball replica of a Krupa style plug? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrrPu7AI50w
I went through most of all the mosfet that I had collected during the tests. The IRF640 gave the best effect with my setup of the collection of mosfet's I had.
I listen to Mr. Krupa's new telephone interview. It was very informative. So they maybe made in Brazil.
Do you think you could talk Mr. Krupa and investors into sending me one sample so I can try it with my circuit?
Thanks for sharing this information.
Luc
Luc,
Here is a proposed very simple circuit for testing on your system.
The circuit works like this:
The 120 VAC is rectifyed through a diode bridge resulting in only positive pulses after the
bridge. The capacitor will charge up and when the capacitor voltage reach approx. 120 VDC
the Neon bulb will light sending a small current to the SCR trigger. The SCR will then dump
the capacitor charge into the ignition coil. The BY diode is there for back emf protection. The
5 watt resistor is a current limiter so that the SCR will survive.
Groundloop.
hi Luc
[Edit: i said i'd get back to you with an update on the SS mods you were looking to replace the relay with in your existing circuit - as i'm about to post this i see Groundloop has just posted an SCR-based schematic, so my suggestions may be redundant now but i'll post anyway in case you also decide to try your existing circuit with SS mods at any time]
i've updated my previous schematic to show how the solid state SPDT switch arrangement which Groundloop adapted for you
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5438.msg122802.html#msg122802)
in your SS SPDT thread could be modified to split the switch into two and move your inductor between them
this would then enable you to use D2 to reclaim the flyback energy from the inductor into your 6u8F capacitor (C2) to boost the discharge as i was suggesting earlier
i've left the suggested bridge cap (C1) in place - this would give you maximum input charge to the 6u8F every strike
if you use R1 to protect C1 from damage due to in-rush current, try with 220R initially & vary C1 to the minimum capacitor value which still maximises charge volts on your 6u8F at your required strike rate
D3 is suggested to provide some protection to MOSFET Q2 from any flyback voltage from primary of T1 - if there's no significant flyback there, remove D3
(D2, D3 can be 1N400x type)
the source circuit which Groundloop adapted for you didn't seem to have any protection against overlap of switching voltages (to ensure that both outputs are not 'on' at same time) - might not be an issue depending on the actual switching signal circuit used, but suggest you check Q1 & Q2 gate drive signals on 2 channel scope (with no AC to Bridge), before allowing the FETs to switch real charge from bridge to transformer!
i think you could test this circuit arrangement below with a DPDT relay (as long as you've got 'break-before-make' contacts!) in place of the MOSFETS - in which case certainly include D3 (in addition to D2) to prolong relay switch contacts
all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
hey men i tried to post over there but i can't.
dunno what's happening..
M.
hi Luc
you're welcome - no problem about sharing those suggestions ...don't forget they're just extending the SS SPDT circuit Groundloop adapted for you, so the EF members will need that too, for the MOSFET gate switching
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5438.msg122802.html#msg122802)
looking forward to seeing how the water-plasma ideas develop
all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
Hi Sandy, thanks for making it clear for the MOSFET switching.
Since you mention switching! I have a question about it. Do you think inductor (L1) would have a hot spot (power efficiency) if we had the ability to adjusted the duty cycle of Q1? if so, do you think that same duty cycle would work on the discharge of Q2 ? if not. then two 555 circuits would be needed? if so, then is there a way (circuit) to keep them from not overlapping?
Sorry for all the chain questions.
Luc
Marco no wonder those little guys BITE
Luc this man seems to close the loop at the end [GEET}
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uboKv7lbAbY&feature=related
Luc
Most of the experments I am planning require a PMW with controllable frequency pulse width and voltage .
From the data sheet for the LM 555 the second circuit example is for a astable operation
The frequecy and and dwell time can be set with Rb ad C1
The output would go to the trigger of the second timer set up as example 4 ( PMW )
The bias of the input pin would set the pulse width .
I was planning on using a 556 chip ........ 2 555s on a single chip.
gary
@ all who are working on small engines/plasma spark
for those moving towards a blended fuel mix/gas vaporization/hho for the next step in getting a small engine to run,
I decided to start up a new thread to explore/brainstorm the concept of emulsifying Brown's gas in a liquid.
There's a Japanese/Korean company touting the breakthrough and boasting what they're calling em-fuel... and
it sounds like they've managed to trap and stabilize HHO into microbubbles within a liquid... in their case, kerosene/diesel and
are running this mix with NO modifications to furnaces and engines. Their using a 50/50 mix.
I wonder how this emulsion would respond to a plasma spark? Since we are exploding H20 could we emulsify a 90/10 mix and combust with plasma?
Could we emulsify HHO into water only? Could we emulsify into gasoline? They're doing it with something their calling a "nanomizer" and trapping
Hydrogen and Oxygen separately into bubbles less than a tenth micron in size..... and the gas WON'T come out of solution once trapped.... even under a centerfuge!
Please feel free to take a look ... it's been bugging me for days!!! I think this could help ALL water projects if we figure this out and replicate.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5450.msg123278/topicseen.html#msg123278
Sorry if this seems off topic :-[ but i see relevance to many efforts finding a home here on this thread.... if you want to chat or input to this topic please bring it
over to the new thread..thanks,
randy :)
hi Luc
...replying about switching issues related to your inductor between bridge & 6u8F cap:
from my experiments with similar circuit (pulse charge cap via inductor then separate discharge from cap through following load) i found there is a very small range of acceptable 'charge' times for a particular coil at a required voltage whilst the 'discharge' time from the cap could be varied quite significantly over a wide range
the issue for the inductor seems to be this: if the 'charge' pulse width is too short for a particular inductor & voltage then the input energy is still being used to setup the inductor's magnetic field and it doesn't transfer the maximum possible voltage to the cap
on the other hand, if the 'charge' pulse is too long then there is unecessary 'waste' of energy when maximum voltage has been reached across the cap and there is I-squared-R loss in the copper of the inductor winding
so for my inductor/voltage parameters (approx 2R of 0.45mm magnet wire, random-wound on 12mm x 20mm approx ferrite / 8V) the 'sweet spot' charge time is around 180uS - less than this & my cap doesn't charge to 8V - more than this i start losing efficiency - and with a recorded efficiency of just 120% i certainly don't want to lose any of that precious extra 20%!! :)
my approach is to vary the PWM by separately varying the 'charge' time with one control and the 'discharge' time with a second control - that way i can keep the inductor switching at optimal 'sweet spot' and effectively vary the frequency of operation by varying the 'discharge' time
i think there is one more important timing issue for your circuit than for mine, however - and it is because the load on your switched cap is another 'inductance' - the auto-coil
i think that you will find there is also an issue of field setup time for the auto-coil Xfr primary as with your bridge-to-cap inductor: there is likely a similar 'sweet spot' setup time - only in this case the field setup time will relate to the amount of charge (hence energy) transferred from the switched cap into the primary
in your case you've found that using your 6u8F cap gives you optimum results - smaller cap values (or higher cap value with more ESR loss) doesn't enable the primary to setup up so much input field (hence secondary output is smaller)
larger switched cap values take longer to charge to the same voltage & use more energy - not all of which perhaps gets transferred to the secondary & therefore the spark gap
we've seen from the video link you shared (user swbNN?) the scope trace on the switched cap input to the auto-coil showed that using HV diodes from top of primary to top of secondary and water spray into spark gap significantly reduces discharge time into the spark gap and therefore increases the spark Power for the same energy
i would say then that with a given switched cap value getting charged to a maximum input voltage from the AC bridge/coil combo then there will be a 'sweet spot' minimum discharge period into the auto-coil - too short & the spark energy will be reduced - any longer than this will just become an inter-spark delay (which will become part of the ICE firing cycle anyway, i guess?)
in summary: for a given inductor / switched cap / auto-coil arrangement: adjust initial 'charge' time to just enough to get max charge voltage, no longer - then adjust 'discharge' time to just get max spark power, no longer - then adjust remaining inter-spark time to get required frequency of spark
hope this helps
all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
Luc,
Attached is the same simple circuit with external trigger input.
Note: Adjust the SCR trigger voltage BEFORE switching on circuit.
This circuit can be used with external trigger in an engine enviroment.
Groundloop.
Luc,@Groundloop
Attached is the same simple circuit with external trigger input.
Note: Adjust the SCR trigger voltage BEFORE switching on circuit.
This circuit can be used with external trigger in an engine enviroment.
Groundloop.
@Chris31 ,
Hi, there,
I am at the same you are :) I can achieve visible explosion but the force is not enough for moving the piston.
Anybody here had the same issues? Had beat them ?
HiThanks for pointing me out that video. I was just staring at it too :). He's been using 500uf/400v which is about 40J charge while I use capacitor at 23uf and bigger engine chamber. Hope the charge is the key. Tonight I am going to try again (with 2x capacitors).
I finally have reached page 21 of this thread, still alot to read LOL.
Callanan at post 74 showed it > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OTCqws_hsc
This is the stage I want to get to before replacing the relay with MOSFETs.
Im not sure if its a problem with my circuit, or maybe this just does not work unless its tried with compress air/water like inside the engine. If this is the case then Ill go ahead and get myself a mower/RC engine to play with 8)
Thanks for pointing me out that video. I was just staring at it too :). He's been using 500uf/400v which is about 40J charge while I use capacitor at 23uf and bigger engine chamber. Hope the charge is the key. Tonight I am going to try again (with 2x capacitors).
Im using 2x 1,000uF 200V so thats plenty.Well you're having big charge (40J). But at least you should having the foam jumping... I am able to push paper :D
Try putting a small piece of paper on top of the spark gap, it should atleast fly off if there is an explosion, are you getting that?
Thats what I expect to happen on my setup in open air, unless Im missing something. The polystyrene foam didnt even move LOL, just plenty of flash and bang.
Hey guys, I'm playing with Plasma Spark for a month now...Reasons might be:
But I get very very very bad misfire...
Any ideas??
Hi all
Im new here so go easy on me ;D
I saw the circuit yesterday, bought all the stuff from maplin. The circuit is based on gotoluc simplified circuit as posted on page 1
The parts are :
2x 1,000uF 200V capacitors (pull from an old PC ATX PSU)
Wipac CL300 ignition coil (not sure what car is for, I bought the cheapest)
6x 1N5408 diodes
12V power relay
240-110VAC transformer (45W UK-USA converter)
KBPC35-04 bridge rectifier
Im just basically charging the capacitor by energizing the relay coil, on release the charge is dumped into the ignition coil.
I was originally using a 47uF 400V capacitor but that didnt do much. So I used 2 of those, result got better. I finally decided to pull out the 2 caps from the old ATX PSU I had lying around, used short thick speaker cables together with the power relay. Finally a big bang and lots of purple flash is produced, it started to hurt my eyes after a couple of tries, I have to turn my back when firing.
So far so good, next step is to spray water, that made the sound much more snappier and bigger orange flash. Sounds good, I can definately hear explosion there.
Spraying the sparks with water sometimes drown it and refuse to spark, here comes a small fog machine for consistent results. Immersed in a polystyrene cup with water, made 2 holes to pass the nails.
The fog machine create a small fountain and sometimes hit the nails so I had to cover it such that only the mist get to the nails, again excellent results. Ignore the red light thats comming the fog machines LED.
I wasnt convince its creating explosion, place a small strip of polystyrene just above the nails, bang, big orange flash, piece of polystrene did not move. :-\
Next step, I use a syringe, put 2 enameled copper wire through and sealed with plastic glue then gap the wires inside accordingly. Fill it with mist, then compress it. same results, nothing moves. Sound like massive explosion but definately nothing is happening there.
I was so excited to build the electronics for it, I feel that I cant move on until Im convinced a real explosion is happening.
:(
Am I missing something here?
In the mean time, Ill be doing more reading and testing.
:)
hi Luc
thanks for the kind words - i'm glad to help if i can
not really sure that i have much to offer, but as the other guys pointed out to you & me earlier there is a close similarity in this particular part of your switching circuit between our two projects (although they're being used in very different applications)
...sorry for the confusion over some of those circuit details above
i used 2R to indicate 2 ohms (i don't have the ohms symbol)
yes, the coil wind is exactly as you describe - "not nicely wound next to each wire row by row like a coil ...somewhat loose and just quickly wound like if you would wind twine on a stick"
it's not mechanically loose tho' because i tape between each layer (about 4 or 5 turns per layer - the ferrite is only 20mm long approx) so i get a short fat coil
i've tried various hand-wound coils and the most important factor - for my test - is that the copper resistance stays low (just a few ohms) - i used random-wind method just to reduce the coil capacitance - i only want to store mag-field energy in the coil which i can then reclaim with the flyback diode (D2)
i haven't done any tests yet to compare the efficiency of the random-wound coil with my tight-wound coils - they seem mostly equivalent so it hasn't been an issue so far
however, the coil i need is small compared to the one you're using - so it may make a much bigger difference in your application if the coils is tight-wound or random-wound
it's the sort of thing you can test after optimising the rest of the circuit operation - then you can go back & just change that one thing and see if your 'optimal' results get worse or improve
the example info inside the brackets relates to the parameters i mentioned outside the brackets: "my inductor/voltage parameters" - so the / 8V just gives the "voltage" part of that pair of parameters (no division involved)
i mentioned the voltage in my circuit example because my application doesn't use the high voltages that the water-plasma experiment needs and so my particular 'charge' time should be seen as relevant only to my low-voltage circuit - your optimal time may turn out to be very different due to either difference in inductance or difference in voltage levels
thanks for the heads-up on the confusion over my info - hope this makes it easier to see what i was trying to say :)
all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
professor,
No, the BY255 is correct in the circuit drawing. The BY255 is used as a "free wheeling" diode to
protect the TIC106D from back emf voltage spike. Look at the circuit drawing again. The capacitor
will be charged with plus voltage facing the TIC106D. When the SCR fires the plus voltage will
go to the coil into the bottom. At this time the BY255 is closed. When the pulse fire is done the
coil will flip polarity (back emf voltage) and the BY255 will then open and take care of that.
Groundloop.
Here is a video I did of a marble in a close fitting plastic tube with plasma arc and water. For an ignition system (high voltage) I am using a 1980 vintage GM HEI ignition coil powered by a strobe light discharge. The low voltage side is a 120 volt mains voltage doubler circuit. As you will see the energy to drive the marble out of the cylinder is not very predictable.http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=WzpsOdllv2w
@ X-Box,
Trying to order the components to build the 1/2 wave voltage doubler. Can you let me know what the Caps voltage or material spec is? ploughing through mouser is giving me a headache.
Thanks
D.
X-Box,I accept paypal.... ;D ;D ::) ::) ;D ;D
You just saved me $40.
Thanks.
Hi all, re plasma spark & water explosion as a fuel, I'm of the opinion it is a futile exercise & flogging a dead horse.After hands on expermenting, reading every post,viewing every video & studying volumes on the subject by academics & university studies,I have come to the same conclusion as most of those studies---- the 'explosion' is an implosion creating a shockwave, the noise becoming louder at the application of moisture,simply by decreasing the resistance & increasing the plasma spark. It may be just possible for the displacement of air by a sound wave within a tiny ICE, free from seals (resistance) & its piston positioned so that with the help of gravity, it moves to the downstroke position. I do not believe that sophisticated electronics will increase the energy to run an ICE with next to no energy to start with. By replicating ideas that have no substance, other than a barely viewable U tube clip, some of which, that have been described by a few, who seem to need an ego boost for something they did'nt make happen. Some of these people disappear of the radar!--- I have serious doubts about s1r9a9m9 as I'm sure many others have. We all have the same goal, trying to find an alternative fuel system, & wasting time, effort & hard earned cash on fruitless exercises is not in my book &, it won't be people like me who will hinder the goal. To look outside the square is probably a good way to go, the more indivdual thinking can only help the cause, but improving on proven technology should not be neglected. Finding a method of generating Aquafuel efficiently within the vehicle itself is one such example of many & one which I intend to persue. The new thread on emulsifying Browns Gas is great lateral thinking. Let there be more! That's my two cents worth & my opinion for what it's worth.
My proposal is now built!... It is a GEET bubbler (only) which is an attempt to use the exhaust energy (heat and air pressure) to prepare the water and fuel mix by emulsifying the mixture with the bubbling and heat of the exhaust (like this example video): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8902559328011576310 the bubbles brake over a large surface area (pot scrubbers) to which will create a vapor state of the gases which our plasma spark will be able to combust @100% with minimal power input. Today I have finished building the complete bubbler system and next step will be the mechanical waste spark and timing system. I hope to have a demo some time next week.
hi all
since there is supposedly a longitudinal force in the direction of high-current flow, has anyone with a 'nail-type' spark gap seen any evidence of the gap electrodes being forced apart?
thanks
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
I agree, I think we need to mix water with some fuel at least, then on top of that use plasma spark to explode the mix.
I have just done a quick water/veg oil mixing using a fog machine. The results look encouraging, I get pop and flames ;D
Here is the link
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5450.0.html
Cant wait to see your demo luc :o
Good direction on your part there Chris31.
So are you thinking the veggie oil will also keep the engine oiled up as it's going through the crankcase?
Keep up the good work ;)
Luc
Quotesince there is supposedly a longitudinal force in the direction of high-current flow, has anyone with a 'nail-type' spark gap seen any evidence of the gap electrodes being forced apart?
thanks
sandy
Hi Sandy,
I was going though the posts and looking for something an read your post and it rang a bell ::) ... a user named Gibs of the Energetic Forum (where they also have a topic going on about the circuit) was doing tests with a spark plug electrodes under water and reported this.
"I observed significant opening of the gap after a couple of dozens of under water explosions.
It started at .015" and it went to approximately .100", the ground electrode literally bent out!!!"
Link: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2242-water-sparkplug-22.html#post26878
hi Luc
thanks for the follow-up - interesting info!
you see, what i'm thinking is: if the force is across the spark/plasma - not around it - then maybe we should be striking the spark/plasma between one electrode and the piston at (just past?) TDC- not just across the spark plug?
what do you think?
all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
My 2 cents.......I'm trying to find an old 2 stroke mower engine to try putting 4 spark plugs into a do it yourself 1/2 inch plate steel cylinder head, so I can deliver a lot more energy to the fuel.
I might even try a water/gas mix of 50/50 to see how things go. My thoughts are that more energy delivered to the water or water/gas mix might be enough to get it to fire. Worth a try. I keep coming back tot he Papp engine ( I know its a separate topic ) but they have BIG electrodes that protrude into the cylinder fromt he head to maximise contact with the fuel - my thinking is that it may require this level of redesign to deliver the required big boot up the ass to the fuel, to get it to ignite.
Hi Sandy, are you saying we use the top of the piston as our ground Electrode?
Even if that was not what you meant I'm going to test it and see what happens.
Let me know as well.
Thanks
Luc
Luc
Using the piston as a cathode was something I thought about when I first started thinking about how to make a water car more practical
I think that using the piston as cathode has some serious problems.
At first glance it looks great ......... but as I see it the problem is oil.
Although the film is thin there is an oil film on the rings and sides of the piston.
This oil will make the piston function kind of like a capacitor .
The voltage on the piston will rise enough to arc through the oil .....then as it discharges it will leave burnt oil at the discharge site
The electrical discharge will probably quickly pit the cylinder walls.
The arcing through the oil could be eliminated by a flexable ground line like a spring of some kind. As I see it the piston travel is to far for a spring to be practical . Also to carry the current the spring would have to be fairly heavy
A flexible ground strap like on engine blocks would flop around and quickly fall apart leaving lots of copper strands in the oil .
My solution is to use heavy copper wires formed into a grid just above TDC so the arc goes through as much of the air compressed into the cylinder as possible . The grid would be attached to the top of the cylinder but would almost touch the piston at TDC The effect would be very similar to a giant firestorm plug
gary
hi LucGreat idea, maybe this should be tested in a car, without plasma.
thanks for the follow-up - interesting info!
you see, what i'm thinking is: if the force is across the spark/plasma - not around it - then maybe we should be striking the spark/plasma between one electrode and the piston at (just past?) TDC- not just across the spark plug?
what do you think?
all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
@All,
Has anyone seen this before, plasma flowing over or thru the wire ????
HV
I sent this Q to Aaron but he might be busy.This 100 Ohm Resitors are to high !
@ everyone.
Would this modification to the Aaron circuit, with X-box's 1/2 wave voltage doubler work?
I don't think I can send the increased voltage through the relay without problems but I can still get it to where it counts most.
Thanks
D.
Hi all,I was wondering if anyone has performed actual underwater "explosions" ( not mist or vapour ) with a high intensity arc? Any feedback re method & results would be much be appreciated. Perhaps an approach in this direction may be worth investigation in harnessing the shockwave energy in another way. FW
hi Luc
apologies for late reply, i've been away for a few days
> Hi Sandy, are you saying we use the top of the piston as our ground Electrode?
yes - i'm just wondering if this is why we're not seeing much evidence of an explosive force around the plasma on contact with the water: because the force is along the current - and usually the spark occurs between the two rigidly fixed electrodes of a commercial spark plug
i appreciate what Gary is saying about oil insulation and piston/cylinder pitting - i'm not suggesting that sparking to the piston is an acceptable end-solution - just that we try to fully understand what is really happening with this effect before dropping it because it seems like a dead-end
a new method of applying force may require a new method of capturing it (eg. direct drive onto 'flywheel' type crank from multiple discharges?)
ok, perhaps unsuitable for direct ICE application, but could we miss discovering a new drive technology as a result?
just a thought
all the best
sandy
<b>Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site:</b> <b>http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc</b>
This 100 Ohm Resitors are to high !
Will burn !!
about 5 ohms is ok
PESE
Greetings all
This is my first post here, and a have a few questions.
Here is a video of my set up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqSq3jVlMHA
so far we have built a pair of firestorm spark plugs and we have put together a combination of the Tero water explosion circuit and the JCBX circuit.
We cant get the engine to run however, so i am curious about a few things, especially from capacitor70 or s1r9a9m9
- what is the best air to water mixture
-what is the optimal way to bring the water into the engine
-what is the optimal timing of the engine
-what is the optimal voltage coming from the inverter, and end result through the diodes ( as diodes to consume some voltage, there is a voltage drop when using certain diodes)
- is there a good way to charge the water before bringing it in to the motor, with magnets, or ionization or joe cell etc
any more help or comments would be great
thanks for all the good work everyone!
Hi Gotoluc,
Alltho the GEET system is an alltogether diffrent system,its neat that you are apply'n it to your research and I wuld like to offer some suggestions for your future research around the whole reality of the system if you dont mind... just some thoughts and perspectives for your pleasure.
The glass jar wuld be inside a metal container with an 1/8" gap between them,sealed at top and bottom.The metal container wuld have fittings from the glass sealed jar as you have assymbled thru the top of it and seald as well with an additional fitting at top to push the heated exhaust into and around the outside of the glass jar and also a fitting on the side near the bottom to exit and exhaust the combustion gasses into as standard small engine muffler.
The copper piping you have assymbled for exhaust inlet I think wuld be a neat way to pull some extra nitrogen into the system from the air ... it wuld be assymbled as you have only where the exhaust is added atop of the lid into the copper piping an air filter/ionizer and an adjustable ball valve wuld be in place and the exhaust wuld be routed into the extra fitting atop of the metal container to flow around the outside of the glass jar and exit out of the metal container with a provided fitting near the bottom side of the metal container.... hmm well those were some thoughts about the system and you may like to try it that way or not but I do appreciate the work you are doing and most sencerily Thank You for sharing.
Im currious to research subjecting all of the exhausted combustion byproducts further to combustion temperatures and the changes that those gasses may encounter.... may be good or bad.... interesting I havent seen any documentation on subjecting exhaust gasses to combustion chamber temperatures yet :-\
Im looking very forward to attempting a replication of the work you have shared.
All this is great stuff and Im glad everyone is still plug'n away and havent given up.... just wanted to say Thank You.
Thank You !
X-box.Dont know for sure....i have 50kV wire for the HV, I have NO resistor....also i was using Cap70 Coil design....NO DIODES.
Any idea, why I can't reproduce your explosive compression? Trying to remove variables here. Are you using an automotive HT (high voltage) lead or is it a solid core? Is my 100 ohm resistor too much? Any ideas?
Rgds.
D.
Luc.
I managed to blow my booster diode chain (7 X 1N5408's) ;D 270uf 400V + doubler was fine. I added 3 x 100uf 400V caps and they died. Using a 12 diode chain now, it's fine but no pressure tests yet.
X-box.
Any idea, why I can't reproduce your explosive compression? Trying to remove variables here. Are you using an automotive HT (high voltage) lead or is it a solid core? Is my 100 ohm resistor too much? Any ideas?
Rgds.
D.
Dont know for sure....i have 50kV wire for the HV, I have NO resistor....also i was using Cap70 Coil design....NO DIODES.
Scratch the info request. Going to copy X-box's design (for a change :-\)
Hey X-box, it looks like 3 layers (13, 1st layer, 12, 2nd layer, 13, 3rd layer) on your secondary, right?
What did you use as the core? looks like PVC.
D
Scratch the info request. Going to copy X-box's design (for a change :-\)
Hey X-box, it looks like 3 layers (13, 1st layer, 12, 2nd layer, 13, 3rd layer) on your secondary, right?
What did you use as the core? looks like PVC.
D
The coil i use is from a arcade monitor....its for the Horizontal width adjustment. The plastic thing is threaded in the center and the ferrite is threaded too, that how you adjust it....by moving it up and down. My rod is 1" long by about 3/8" diameter. Their is only a primary and a secondary. In the image the secondary is on the bottom and the primary is wound over the secondary. The secondary is about 28-30 turns and the primary is about 12 turns...i say about because i have made MANY coils and they all worked just fine....not one number of turns was better then another. I have never gone over 30 on the secondary....lol
You can goto radioshack and buy a ferrite rod inductor, take off the windings that are on it, and you have a core to start with! The secondary needs to be coated wire.....NOT magnet wire. I bought some 1000V wire on ebay and i have not gotten around to testing it....but i hope to soon! The primary can be magnet wire. The best wire i have found to use...that was FREE....is the windings form a microwave transformer. Most of my coils were made of it.
The capacitor is the most important part!! I bought some 6kV 500pF caps on ebay, and they seem to work well.
Here is how to start:
-Connect your HV/primary side to the coil.
-Connect a spark plug to the secondary side of the coil...one leg goes to the body of the plug and the other leg goes to the top of the plug... DO NOT WORRY ABOUT DC VOLTAGE FOR NOW. We just want to see if we can get a spark on the secondary plug!!!! If you get a good spark...with no missing, then move on to adding the DC to the secondary.
How is it possible?I've know about the joe cell technology for a four years now,.... never had time to built one, anyway I have had only a very very little of q. physics in school yet.
It is has been reported that when clean water is prepared properly in a joe cell, certain specific types
of bubble production result on the surface of the water. This in itself may give a valuable clue as to
the cause of the energy. When these bubbles are ignited, they often create an extremely violent
reaction with an associated sonic boom. It is highly likely that what is occurring here is related to a
principle known as Cavity Quantum Electrodynamics.
Luke,
Happy to oblige. Do you want results of the effect posted here or there?
X-Box,
Thanks man.
Rgds.
D
then in 1969, interest in steam electricityDoesn't it sound familiar?
was renewed because of explosions caused by the ignition of vapors during the washing of oiler
tankers with steam jets. Steam electricity is supposedly explained by the bubbles nucleated in the
boiling of water droplets, behaving like resonant quantum electrodynamic (QED) cavities. During
bubble growth as the bubble cavity resonance coincides with vacuum ultraviolet frequencies, the
water molecules on the bubble walls dissociate by cavity QED into hydronium H3O+ and hydroxyl OH-
ions.
Hi Dread,@luc:
what you can do since you are familiar with the circuit here is after some time when you get as familiar with capacitor70 circuit is share how much time it took you to get the circuit built and working (compared to this one), how low of uf cap value at xx volts can you use and still get the effect (compared to this one) which should give us an idea of efficiency and any advantages you may find (compared to this one).
That would be helpful
Thanks
Luc
@luc:
Hi Luc,
Let me answer instead of Dread.
I went for Cap70 circuit because had to use over 65 diodes (every 1000v ) in order to prevent the HV spark going to the big capacitor. I this is thing that I found from from several days of tries/mistakes, it was really hard.
That's why tried the cap70 circuit and it started to work at once - so fast that I didn't believed it. Of course there is disadvantiges of the cap70 and it is important one. The traf used to get HV spark transformed to the first spark plug delivers very little of the HV spark because of the capacitors and transformers. That's you get something like 500pF energy @ 6000v which is enough for getting the effect same like with the diodes but not enough for getting effect in engine under compression (at TDS there is 8x pressure than at the room) and turbulention(from fuel/air incoming). However you can avoid also that by increasing the turns (& size) of the traf as also increasing the voltage of the capacitors.
@everyone:
Just wanted to share some thoughts which are objective and not influenced by overunity fanaticism.
I'd read several articles of Graneau (and son) works. These are the people that had studied the effect we trying to achieve here.
So the effect is real.
They believed that after effect the water molecules are splitted each other. The overunity energy came from the energy that is holding the H20 molecules together. And this from otherside is coming from the sun. However many people believed (even some of the people worked with P. Graneau) that his calculation about overunity of the effect are big mistake. But even if no mistake according to Graneau we getting overunity about 2 to input energy. Do you think that is enough for alternator to make energy so can feed the engine? I don't - that's why believe that s1r9a9m s work is lie (who knows?).
However there is something else, if really there is overunity we can utilize the wasted energy using "Tesla Switch". Remembered that we'd used a bulb's for feeding the big capacitor and preventing the shorts. In analogue way we can use the current after the big sparks to feed another capacitor (see what the tesla switch projects in the forum). That will definately increase the COP and make things possible.
But you may be see it's all thought and it need a lot of tries and mistakes to clear the way.
This is the way I am following and believe the same way as some of the people here.
Unfortunately I am still having problem with compression on my engine so I cannot help you guys more real world data currently. Although I hope that I did helped somebody by my thoughts.
Thanks.
Group,
There was a current flowing through the high side of the ignition coil from the low voltage driver circuit through the diode chain.
(In my CDI circuits posted earlier in this thread.)
This current leakage was not wanted so I have designed a new circuit proposal that have no leakage at all.
The new circuit uses high voltage high current diodes to insulate the ignition coil high voltage.
I hope you will find this circuit useful.
Groundloop.
Hello guys !
this is my first post PLEASE be gentle with me. I found out that if you use a 4 post 12 v. relay across the coil ( pos. to the ground wire or points wire ) you can fire the High amp DC off the diode bridge. Some what in time to fire the plugs.However I don't know what freq.that it will hold up to ( I.E. RPM of the engine.?) and how better can you charge the cap also seems to be a problem. All opinions greatfully appreciated. possible what is needed is two relays fired at the same time?.
thanks Bruce
Welcome :D aboard Bruce,
unfortunately I can't help you with your request since we are not at the point of applying the circuit to an automobile at this time. Please note that this effect has no heat!... it stays cold!... even if it works for hours. We don't quite understand why the water reacts like it explodes. Some who have replicated are convinced that it also implodes immediately after the explosion. So with this said it will not make a standard combustion engine work on water alone at this time since you would need the water to expand, which needs heat to do that. Please read my recent post to get up to date as what I am suggesting to do to get the heat needed for expansion.
Luc
Hey guy's
Mr. Luc and all of the crew I have a slightly different thought process regarding this Plasma spark thing!!! Please fell free to comment or critique. Fist of all I think that we are trying to replicate a sort of controlled multi cycle tig welding machine only at a slightly lower amperage.For those that don't know a tig welder uses a high voltage ,high freq. spark to start the lower voltage but much higher amperage current which we use to weld with. And also it can do this with not only DC current but, DC reverse and also AC current. I have the schematic available if some of you electronics Mr. Wizards would like . Please send me your fax number and I will asap resend back this doc. ( for those that wish to Google this it's a Miller 250 dial arc HF welder this is on page 26.) This just MIGHT be helpfull if we can miniaturize the circuit and then employ it in any of our Ice's .
Just thinking out loud to the crowd.
Thanks
Bruce
Here is link to your welder owner's manual http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o315u_mil.pdf .The schematic is on page 26. I think it's complicated to me because it doesn't show component's values and it uses complicated transformers.
Hi LucWhere can we find a flip-flop...How do they work....Are they costly...
My first post on your thread. Thanks for sharing your findings.
Did you know you can eliminate your extra spark easily by using a "flipflop"?
One really has to look hard to sort the trash on the internet.
I really can't imagine the sick satisfaction that hoaxers get from
spreading their crap. I don't want to name names.
On the other hand, here is a guy which thinks out of the box.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGp7hMUXjmI
Greetings
Hi Luc
My first post on your thread. Thanks for sharing your findings.
Did you know you can eliminate your extra spark easily by using a "flipflop"?
One really has to look hard to sort the trash on the internet.
I really can't imagine the sick satisfaction that hoaxers get from
spreading their crap. I don't want to name names.
On the other hand, here is a guy which thinks out of the box.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGp7hMUXjmI
Greetings
Hi bxngoc,Sorry Schematic is in page 25
thanks for your help ;D I don't see a schematic!...it looks like a part list to me :-\ I see 2 kinds of transformers and 2 capacitors.
Luc
@Luc
This is where you may find the data sheet for 4013 datasheet:
http://info.hobbyengineering.com/specs/FAIRCHILD-CD4013BC.pdf
And here is a basic circuit showing how to drive a FET.
Please note this circuit is not tested.
For every two pulses going into the clock input, the fet is clocked once.
the clock input must normally be pulled low by a 1mega ohm resistor.
The voltage to the chip should be no more than 15 volts.
This used to be a very common chip typically available from
http://www.hobbyengineering.com/H2107.html.
Regards
Hi All
What uses can you think of for a flame from water I have a few.
Oz Injector rises again and the second round of parts are shortly to be made, with the latest info, new hope for it.
2lts of water a min, 4cubic metres of 'gas a min'
LHV of the gas at 182, rated at 12.8Mj per Cubic metre
2,046MJ per hour, or 1,027,199 btu per hour
This spewed out in a flame with a temperature up to 2,800deg C less if nitrogen (air) is mixed with it.
This is the SMALL ONE
The large one 185,000 cubic metres of 'gas' a min, 94,625 Mj per Hour, or 47,507,952 btu per hour.
Ok now I will await the abuse or interest. Hi turtle just popped in here to have a look
aussepom
Pese,
Yes, thanks for your council. My visits here are becoming more infrequent with development of the engine, test rig, circuit, and high voltage multi-tasking switch, (don't even ask) etc.
The circuit mod. with the V-doubler has increased explosive compression. @ 30PSI to around 35PSI. I will try with less resistance on the booster side and SS electrodes.
Luc.
I managed to blow my booster diode chain (7 X 1N5408's) ;D 270uf 400V + doubler was fine. I added 3 x 100uf 400V caps and they died. Using a 12 diode chain now, it's fine but no pressure tests yet.
X-box.
Any idea, why I can't reproduce your explosive compression? Trying to remove variables here. Are you using an automotive HT (high voltage) lead or is it a solid core? Is my 100 ohm resistor too much? Any ideas?
Rgds.
D.
Explosive compression can only be found at levels of energy higher than 3 joules. We found this through trial and error. You cant immerse a plug in water and get it to fire on less than 5 joules, or so it seems through our experiments
Hi Gotoluc,
Sorry about the intrusion but your thread was interesting as you seem to be trying out with 'spark plugs' high voltage etc, to get a 'good ' spark.
Is this what you want for the engine to 'burn all the fuel' or are you tyring to produce a 'plasma arc' ?
A spark after all is 'plasma' the same as the lighting, it ionises the air making it easier for an arc or spark to travel in. But there are other ways to produce ' plasma arc', I have had a thread running in another forum just on this, and some that have read that thread may still be wondering when it will happen.
If you use a high voltage by the way of the ht coil of a car.
I have used a modified 'jacobs ladder' circuit to switch the input side at 140 to 150hz at about 120v on the 12volt input, but do not let the pulses fall any lower. There were some protective diodes across the switching transistor.
With this you do not need any gap just break off the small outer electrode, I have had a spark over 1" 1/2 long from this, with a plug it just arcs all over.
I should then if I wanted to continue on this, start a new thread.
aussepom
You need a much longer string of diodes. I've been using two strings of 25 1N5408 in parallel. But each string of 25 seems to handle the massive power we are applying to the plugs. Explosive compression can only be found at levels of energy higher than 3 joules. We found this through trial and error. You cant immerse a plug in water and get it to fire on less than 5 joules, or so it seems through our experiments.
Like Luc said though, the higher voltages help so that you may get away with lower energy levels for the same effect by raising the voltage level but lowering capacitance. Luc's got a great system of running a variac into a microwave transformer. That was a great idea because it semi-isolates the variac and allow a major wide range of voltage levels.
UncleFester
(great name btw)
Thanks for the info. I considered lowering the capacitance but I need it for the sub circuit that I am working on (getting close now) when I get it working, I will publish here. If it works, it will change everything.
In the mean time, I would like to progress with the coil system from the Water Sparkplug forum, but specifics and a general review of my findings will be here.
My sole aim is explosive compression. How I achieve it, Diodes or coil matters not.
Rgds
Dread
UncleFester
(great name btw)
Thanks for the info. I considered lowering the capacitance but I need it for the sub circuit that I am working on (getting close now) when I get it working, I will publish here. If it works, it will change everything.
In the mean time, I would like to progress with the coil system from the Water Sparkplug forum, but specifics and a general review of my findings will be here.
My sole aim is explosive compression. How I achieve it, Diodes or coil matters not.
Rgds
Dread
Go for it! The higher you can keep the voltage the better. We ran some tests today with a high speed camera (125,000 frames per second max) and found some amazing stuff happening. We were running in the 50+ joule range and tried a bit of water on it for fun. We found that it does create even more compression from the water, but I'm still concerned about the amount of pressure it's producing per pulse. We were finding limited pressure (25-40 psi) per pulse at 50 joules in a 100cc chamber. We ran all the way up to 415 joules (502 volts @ 3300uF pulse discharge cap once per second) and it works better but still not sure how much power will be available from the water explosion inside a combustion chamber from it even though it sounds like a shotgun blast going off inside the lab.. Of course like you stated as well it will be difficult to create enough power from the alternator, etc to feed a 5 joule @ 60 times per second ignition system. The plugs also seem to disintegrate rapidly at 50+ joules, although it may still be workable at these energy levels. At 400+ joules it's a different story LOL! These poor plugs were taking a real beating ;D
Hopefully our investor will let us post some footage of the plugs across a wide range of power levels and at different frame rates. Super slow motion showed a spark from the HV coil followed immediately by a massive flow of current and a ball of plasma about the size of a grapefruit then falling off slowly into a shower of molten (or maybe vaporized) cloud of metal from the plug. This cloud seems to form a diameter of about tennis ball size before fading out. A normal plug with electrode cut off shoots a flame straight up, while the FireStorm plug creates a definite ball of plasma strangely enough.
It appears as though it is a mosfet driven system, maybe with a charging side that charges a cap up to about 450 volts, but the cap must be small, because the effect is not like the larger capacitive discharge you see using an SCR or relay. Also, you get multiple discharges per crank signal and the color is a whitish yellow. This is the same effect Krupa shows in his earlier videos. The switching sound coming from the driver is characteristically mosfet or igbt, the same type of sound you hear from a modern day inverter type TIG welder. Bob say's that the output from these drivers is nowhere near what we was getting in his original videos, and to the naked eye it appears he is right. You see the streamers of HV across the plug but not the plasma effect we are looking for. Also, the units shut down when the diode string is used, they simply will not work with it in place and thus you rely solely on the rated output of the driver and coil. We have used 5 different coils. One was called a flamethrower, blaster3, blaster2, and I can't remember what the other two were, but they were drag racing coils made by Accell. Now, I have not run these 1 joule drivers in parallel but I will try that next week and see if it makes a difference. We have 5 of them and so I might try running a filtered supply from the variac and see how high I can go before it lets the smoke out ;D
Bob claims that this 1 joule driver is what was used, but he say's it may have been used at higher voltages than it was originally designed for. He calls it the adrenaline ignition which at the time was brand new technology and only custom built on a one off basis for dragsters, etc. Now these drivers can be purchased but are a staggering $10,000 American dollars per unit. I would cut off a finger to have a schematic but clearly that's not going to happen. We can try and design a unit similar to the 555 charge pump and discharge side like I've seen posted, but I would imagine we would need some ISOTOP style packaged Mosfets with 800 volt @ 50 ampere rating or so in order to make it realiable and capable of 5 joules or so.
Hi Guys
The figures I quoted are real, you can work it out for you self quite easily.
It is well known that a litre of water can produce HOH with electrolysis the gas amount is also a fact 1 litre for 2065liters of HOH. (Browns gas) though this is wrong he did not invent it.
If you can process water correctly this is what you can achieve at 100% change.
Now this HOH gas is NOT FULLY DISSASOSIATED. Just stretched out like an elastic band, it takes energy to stretch it, and a little less to hold it in the stretched position, when you ignite it, it will release the energy and then return to its original shape from 2 cubic metres of 'gas space' back to 1 litre of water. Do this in a sealed container and you will create a vacuum with 1,999 litres and one litre of water.
You will have a potential lift pressure of 19.7lb/sq" this test can be seen on Utube, Allgoodautomation.
I did not agree with the work done energy as the time that it took to do it was not timed, and I do not think it could be done due to the extreamley fast flame speed of HOH.
Calculated
Gas HOH
lts/hr water 2065/ltr cubic M
lts min lts/min lts/sec min sec
60 1 2,065 34.42 2.065 0.034
108 1.8 3,717 61.95 3.717 0.062
150 2.5 5,163 86.05 5.163 0.086
300 5 10,325 172.08 10.325 0.172
390 6.5 13,423 223.72 13.423 0.224
750 12.5 25,813 430.22 25.813 0.430
960 16 33,040 550.67 33.04 0.551
2,160 36 74,340 1239.00 74.34 1.239
2,580 43 88,795 1479.92 88.795 1.480
4,200 70 144,550 2409.17 144.55 2.409
5,400 90 185,850 3097.50 185.85 3.098
This table is just what you could achieve with HOH.
How ever if you fully DISSASOSIATE, you will have to take the LHV of the separate gases in the correct formula to get the LHV, I have such a programme I can mix any gas in any quantity it will give me all the relative information. That why the LHV I quoted is at 182 and the 12.8 is the MJ value per Cubic metre. THIS IS NOT THE LHV FOR HOH, no one has proven this and given the LHV value, some has have tried with some guess work.
This may not fit very well in your thread but it is information that you may find useful.
It may give you insight to what can happen inside you ICE engine, when with just a small amount of HOH could lift your energy up by 1% .
Ok Luc I hope this is useful information, please do as you wish with it.
aussepom
Mr. LUC
I will try to get the Miller welder schematic here. http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o315p_mil.pdf
WOW it works Ha-HA-HA I take back everything I was thinking about Bill Gates...
Back to our business .
Please look at the lower Right hand side of the schematic.Around T-2 and T-3 there are a few caps and some resistors. Mixing the two different signals together on a single wire can and has been done for many years. I will explane how to make a spark box later this is a method of separating the two signals,and not having a short in the system.
note that the work represents the ground of the spark plug.And the electrode represents the center of the plug( ALSO NOTE THAT IN A TIG welder you can change the DC politary or go to AC if needed.)
For all you electronics guys I hope that this just might be the breakthrough we need.So far I have not been able to use a "piggyback" current to get a Plasma on my spark plugs.I will never claim to be a electronic wizz. but I can solder up circuits ( also burn them up on occasion) and try different hook ups.IN SAYING THIS HAS ANYONE BEEN ABLE TO GET A HIGH AMP CHARGE TO ' PIGGYBACK 'AS OF YET??? Please fell free to comment . thanks for the computer lesson Mr.LUC
thanks Bruce
Thank you once again UncleFester for taking the time to explain what you and Bob know about these coils. I have some HV 1uf caps!... do you think a 1uf charged to 450vdc would still too much to drive the coil?
I haven't yet tried it with the diode setup and find it strange that it would just stop working ???
I did not get some SCR's yet since the local electronic store I use only had 2 models in stock and neither were the model of Groundloop's schematic. So I though I would wait till I see feedback from users as which SCR works best but no one has posted any info. Since you are doing very serious switching, may I ask you what you have found that works best for this application? is it an SCR's or Power MOSFET? and what would be the part number?
Thank you UncleFester for your help and sharing the experiment you are doing at this time.
Luc
UncleFester,
The TIC106 used in my circuit is good enough to make the initial spark on a spark plug.
It is rated 5 ampere (much higher when pulsed) and with the CDI capacitor at 2uF2 the drive is plenty to start the spark.
The main power to get plasma then comes from the capacitor before the diode chain. The proposed
diodes is LT10A07. Those diodes can take 10 ampere (much higher when pulsed). I have built and tested my circuit as
a CDI system. It works just fine. That said, there is no problem with using a bigger SCR and a bigger CDI capacitor.
I have started a research project converting a 1,5HP water pump. My main goal is first is to add a CDI circuit and plasma
enhancer to the motor. I will replace the water pump with a generator. Then I will add a water injector and try to run
the motor with brown gas (HHO) and water as cooling. Attached is my design so far.
Groundloop.
SCR's are the only devices I've been able to get to work reliably up to 1000 volts @ 25 amp. The one I fried was 1200V @ 300A I believe, but you can find NTE parts that are available and rated for 1200V @ 25A and cost about $12 a piece. I will go grab the part number from them. The one in GroundLoops circuit is way, way too small, those pop like popcorn even at 2 joules. The mosfet for the ignition driver that would run off a car electronic system would be similar to this one: http://ixdev.ixys.com/DataSheet/99477.pdf
That would be for the charging side to drive a step-up coil to charge a 50uF @ 800V cap. Then the charged cap could be discharged through an SCR and give us around 5 joules. I already have the charging side designed, and I have a processor controlled version already built except for the discharge portion of the circuit. It uses a PIC 12F683 (8 pin) processor, has two snubbers across the step-up coil and appears to work well so far. The discharge side would be fired once the processor see's the cap at full charge for bench testing, and the same input can be used for a crank trigger signal from a very simple coil sitting above the crank magnet.
UncleFester,
The TIC106 used in my circuit is good enough to make the initial spark on a spark plug.
It is rated 5 ampere (much higher when pulsed) and with the CDI capacitor at 2uF2 the drive is plenty to start the spark.
The main power to get plasma then comes from the capacitor before the diode chain. The proposed
diodes is LT10A07. Those diodes can take 10 ampere (much higher when pulsed). I have built and tested my circuit as
a CDI system. It works just fine. That said, there is no problem with using a bigger SCR and a bigger CDI capacitor.
I have started a research project converting a 1,5HP water pump. My main goal is first is to add a CDI circuit and plasma
enhancer to the motor. I will replace the water pump with a generator. Then I will add a water injector and try to run
the motor with brown gas (HHO) and water as cooling. Attached is my design so far.
Groundloop.
good morning Mr. LUC
I just watched you video on your converted lawn mower.One of the major problems with a single is balance.If you do not have a blade on the mower ( I.E. some sort of a flywheel ) they are difficult to start and run. Possibly because of the sensitivity of your P/U switch which just MIGHT be jumping around.( Just a thought trying to help)also a big thank you for the TIG schematic I could not get it to get that big. In the lower right hand of the drawing at the High freq(high voltage)CR-2 and CR-1 most probably would have the same value. these are controlled buy the operator and for our need lets just say we are going to use the continuous one ,since we are.This current goes to a transformer which goes through another transformer with another cap (C-2 )as of yet this value un known.this signal seems to mix with another lower value transformer value ( for us this could be the High amp DC side) and out comes what we need a plasma spark Bang, and in Nano seconds disassociation.If you or ANY OR YOUR ELECTRONICS GUY'S this method just might work for us, ALL YOU GUY'S PLEASE CRITIQUE AND COMMENT AND TRY TO COME UP WITH ANOTHER SCHEMATIC.
Thanks Bruce
UncleFester,
The main energy to the spark plug does NOT come from the CDI circuit. It is coming from the Inverter.
If you increase C10 (in my circuit drawing) then you increase the energy going to the plug. Also,
if you increase the voltage to the inverter you get the same result. To increase the inverter output
voltage just use a voltage doubler. I will probably use a home made transformer on the inverter
that gives me approx. 600 volt AC. The TIC106D can be replaced with any type of SCR as long as
the drive resistors on the opto coupler is changed to give the correct trigger current. Looking forward
to hear your results with your motors.
Groundloop.
UncleFester,
OK. I understand what you are trying to do and in your case you probably need that high energy.
In my case I only need a little more energy than a normal spark because I do not want exploding
water, I want exploding Brown gas. Then I will use water injection as cooling. My first attempt
will use regular petrol (gas) but with the motor in a lean configuration. When I lean the gas/air mixture the
motor gets hotter. To keep the heat down I will inject water. Then maybe it will be possible to run the motor
with much less gas usage? My main problem is to find space for the water injector.
Groundloop.
@GotoLuc
I paid 12 a piece for the 1200V @ 25A ones in Salt lake City, UT. Not sure why they would be that much more expensive there unless these were NOS (new old stock).
A working plasma ignition setup in a Volkswagon van :) Using your low current circuit Luc!! Plasma generation, under compression, using 1/2 amp!!!! Nice. ;D
circuit
http://skyhero.com/Cozzco%20Plasma%20Arc%20Circuit.pdf (http://skyhero.com/Cozzco%20Plasma%20Arc%20Circuit.pdf)
video
NexusPlasma01.wmv (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1149735778386216742&hl=en)
@goldenequity,
I have made a cleaned up drawing of the circuit. I did not get the number of diodes used.
Also, in the car he used another string of diodes. Where to put them?
Can anybody that are better in understanding English than me take a look at the video and update
the drawing with the correct number of diodes and also where the second string
of diodes is attached?
Groundloop.
@goldenequity,
I have made a cleaned up drawing of the circuit. I did not get the number of diodes used.
Also, in the car he used another string of diodes. Where to put them?
Can anybody that are better in understanding English than me take a look at the video and update
the drawing with the correct number of diodes and also where the second string
of diodes is attached?
Groundloop.
@Groundloop and everyone,
I am new to this forum but an avid watcher and would like to commend everyone on their great efforts.
I have edited Ground loops schematic with my representation of what Bill was saying in the video and the schematic he posted.
He stated that he has two banks of 60 1N5408 diodes in series, each at 3 amps 48kva. In parallel, he gets 6 amps. He stated that he feels he does not need two banks and he over engineered the circuit.
He calls the line coming out of the diode bank a "dipole wire". He runs 4 dipole wires to 4 banks of 7 diodes which he calls his "cross talk preventer". From each of these cross talk diode banks, he runs a wire to the top of each spark plug.
Like I stated previously, this is the way that I understand his circuit from watching his video several times and reviewing his schematic. If anyone feels that this is incorrect, please let me know. I am by no means an expert in this field and am open to advice and or criticism.
I am planning on replicating this circuit and will post my findings here.
A note, what circuit to use depends on if the high voltage pulse out of the coil is negative or positive seen from the motor ground.
Also, we must check with the inventor on how many diode to use in each serial diode string.
Groundloop.
The diodes in the 60 string are going in the wrong direction.
The ground for the capacitor should be to the battery, NOT to the 120 hot!
Cripes :)
When you geter done, could I have a copy for the PDF?
Much better than mine
Regards,
Bill
@GroundLoop
I understand, that is why I am using a system similar to Luc's. It is a variac into a microwave transformer, then FWB. I have been able to go up to 2KV @ 1uF, but I use a spark gap to discharge the cap at these voltages. I can go all the way up to 1000V @ 50uF (25 joules) by using the SCR. My SCR setup makes the SCR handle the entire discharge current of the cap (capacitor is parallel to the primary of the coil and diode string and SCR is series on the Anode side of the circuit). With an HV relay I can go all the way up to 400 joules discharge but the rep rate is slow (although only one pulse almost destroys the plug). Every time the coil fires it jumps about 2mm off the table from the inductive kick, and the diode strings I use barely handle the output (I use 25-1N5408's in series, and two strings of them in parallel for more current).
I used your circuit with the cap in series with the primary of the coil but I could not get enough energy across the plug to explode water. I beefed up all the components to handle higher voltages and currents and it exploded water then but I still did not get enough energy to create high pressures in a closed chamber. 5 or more Joules is needed and even then the pressure created from exploding the water is not more than 5-10 psi per pulse and we need more like 75 psi per pulse to drive a small engine I believe.
@GotoLuc
I paid 12 a piece for the 1200V @ 25A ones in Salt lake City, UT. Not sure why they would be that much more expensive there unless these were NOS (new old stock).
bwb,
If you are running a 300 Watt inverter and is using, let us say half of that energy, then the total added
energy to you motor will be 150 Watt. This is way too small to make any difference in your motor.
Another issue is the improved combustion with a plasma spark. My best guess is that this will not
impact the motor in a negative way. Only one way to find out, try it on your car. :-)
Then we have the spark plugs. Does anybody know if the Firestorm plugs in on the market?
Groundloop.
Hi everyone,
Just uploaded a video showing the water spark plug producing the effect at lower voltage levels.
The video is at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN8jNVq4pKo
Also I'd like to share my progress on my generator test rig.
Peace,
Greg
The pic shows the sensor plate that will hold some reed switches. The plate has slotted holes for changing timing. The larger gear has three holes for mounting the rotor that will hold a magnet that will actuate the reed switches. Hopefully by this time next week I will be running this thing.
(http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/ren_energy/spark_plug/timing1.jpg)
gmeast,
What kind of HV diodes are you using? Partnumber?
Groundloop.
that looks great! :).best ive seen so far i think.
Has the circuit designer elaborated on his water injection system? He says his van ran (badly but still ran) on water alone.
Dave
Is there spark plugs on the market that do not have any resistors?
Groundloop.
Just google you can find many non-resistor spark plug.
Here is chart of part number of NGK http://www.carsparkplugs.com/images/ngkchart.jpg you can see if there is no "R" in part number means non-resistor spark plug.
Found one on amazon http://www.amazon.com/NGK-BP7ES-Resistor-Spark-Plug/dp/B000C5M2HC
I'm really guessing a lot as you can see from my writing. This is because this plasma ignition
is as new to me as it is to you. But I think that if we try this out on our cars then we will
learn a lot and find the perfect values on the parts.
I have ordered the BY255 diodes and other parts and will try it out on my car as soon as the parts arrive.
Groundloop.
How to control the timing once the you have the schematic done...
Sparks are controled by the ECU so this is a seperate circuit(unless with 555).
Spark Plugs
I found non resistant plugs for my truck. at http://www.summitracing.com/ Just do a spark plug search, then use browse by make of vehicle to find if they have your plugs in NR. I posted this once before.So delete it if you want.
It may take time to test all the circuits to find what works best and is simplest to build. If you have an ECU vehicle like most of us then if you want to be able to change timing I would recommend you to build Greg's circuit which I think is very stable and the simplest circuit to build at this time.
But do remember we are all testing these.
@Greg, excellent video demo and circuit ;)
Luc
Why don't we try NTE517 diodes in Nexus/Groundloop instead of 4 string of BY255? I got difficulty in buying both type of diodes in my place so I have to consider carefully.
Comparing the two circuits is not possible. The Nexus circuit uses the motor ignition and timing as it is.
You just add parts to get the plasma flame at the sparkplugs. Greg's circuit uses reed relays and must
be timed by using magnets on the motor flywheel. It is a more complex circuit and is not for the beginner
if you ask me.
To get approx. 3 ampere with the NTE517 you will need 5 in parallel also. So for each plug you will need 15 high
voltage diodes. The total will be 60 diodes of the NTE517 type. Now compare the cost;
BY255 = (37 * 4) + 1 = 149 diodes = 17 USD (worst case cost)
NTE517 = 60 diodes = 400 USD (worst case cost)
@ lapperll > Well what to do with those ''existing spark connections'' on the diagram'' from what i see you get dual voltage on sparks correct me if am wrong.What is the purpase of those ''existing spark connections'' .
All,
First, using NTE517 in my circuit is not a problem but you will need more than one in series at each plug.
The NTE517 is rated Maximum 15 Kilo Volt and max. 550mA. So to get the required (in my opinion)
voltage protection (45KV) you will need 3 in series. The BY255 is rated 1300 Volt at 3 ampere. To get
approx. 3 ampere with the NTE517 you will need 5 in parallel also. So for each plug you will need 15 high
voltage diodes. The total will be 60 diodes of the NTE517 type. Now compare the cost;
BY255 = (37 * 4) + 1 = 149 diodes = 17 USD (worst case cost)
NTE517 = 60 diodes = 400 USD (worst case cost)
Comparing the two circuits is not possible. The Nexus circuit uses the motor ignition and timing as it is.
You just add parts to get the plasma flame at the sparkplugs. Greg's circuit uses reed relays and must
be timed by using magnets on the motor flywheel. It is a more complex circuit and is not for the beginner
if you ask me.
Everything depends on what you want to do. If you want a simple and low cost plasma enhancer then
use the Nexus. If you want to do a lot of research into water injection then build Greg's circuit.
Groundloop.
Mr Tesla
This thread is about getting the most bang for the buck from those 2 connections .
The existing ignition system is high enough voltage to form an arc . But not much power.
The low voltage from the inverter has enough power to do some work .
When the high voltage makes an arc within that arc plasma is formed.
This plasma is a relativly good conductor so the low voltage can flow through the arc.
We are in effect making a switch using the existing ignition system to turn the power on and off .
gary
Hi all,
I have posted a video demonstrating the CORE water spark plug principles as applied to multiple spark plugs. This is NOT the Nexus circuit. It operates as a CDI system like the original isolated circuit brought to us by Gotoluc and demonstrated by Peter Lindemann and also replicators from all around.
The circuit below is the exact circuit as used in the video. It uses 3 HV diodes in parallel (NTE517) per plug ... visible in the video. The circuit does not need a beefy choke (MOT) primary. It will produce a bright plasma discharge on 12 uf. I'm using 47uf in these tests because I like to blow up water.
The video is at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kz2REk4XdA
Enjoy. Peace,
Greg
(http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/ren_energy/spark_plug/distrib.jpg)
Hi all,
I personally love the simplicity of the Nexus. The circuit I tested and submitted as a contribution is more a study in principle and some on the practical. I wanted to carry the CORE circuitry (Gotoluc's initial circuit) to a point of reasonable completion. It is harder to apply my system because it changes the nature of the entire system to a CDI. The Nexus is a 'bolt-on' ... very slick.
Any help I can give, just yell. I'll be putting my system on my '64 VW Bug for testing. I will post results as well as my generator stuff too. The biggest hurtle in all of this has been the 'distributor'. Now, at least, that has been solved in two ways.
Best to all. Peace,
Greg
Very good vid Greg. I am ordering parts to construct your circuit. I see you have an isolation transformer (1:1) and I know that there are many to choose from. Is there one in particular that you used or will any 1:1 transformer will do?
Thanks, Mike
@happyvalley808
I live in Vietnam. We can only buy some common electronics components from China at local shops. Some of them work unrealiably. Even they don't have datasheet.
Sorry some guys come from China. That's just my feel.
[/quot
Check out this company, there located in thailand......futerlec.com ...Check out 6A10 diodes 1000V 6A
I live in hawaii , 2 day shipping cost me $18, not bad..
Regards,
HV
Expert Needed because I'm not Smiley
On the Nexus circuit.
1.--Could someone show how to make the three to five 1n5408 half bride rectifier?
2.--If you wanted to use resistors with the 1n5408 diodes what size should you use?
I went to this site and I'm still a little confuse on which way to go. http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/articles/Diodes/diodes.shtm
@bwb
The half wave bridge rectifier is just a single diode. Bill used 5 diodes in series on his circuit but stated that they were not all needed. Three would more than likely be sufficient. All you have to do is solder at least 3 diodes together end to end, just like the 60 diode string and the 7 diode cross talk blocker.
I'm not sure about the resistors, maybe someone else can help with that one.
LapperLL
@gotoluc > totaly agree with you i am confused about all these cirucits.What i think you guys should do make an agrement wich is the SIMPLE and EASY to build and EFFECTIVE.
lots of new folks want to try it incl. my friends but they are confused.For me the NEXUS looks good.
Hi lapperll,
as you can see the circuit needs to be very very simple so questions like this don't come up. Does the software you used for the circuit have a picture of a diode? if so, can you please use it or import a pic of one and paste 4 diodes in series and you may as well do the rest of the diodes just to make it super clear of orientation and quantity.
I also noticed your capacitor does not say capacitor! it says 12.5uf MOC to which I assume stands for microwave oven capacitor.
Please note that MOC are only around 1uf so that may also cause confusion or more questions. Can you please also have a pic of a capacitor in your circuit and title it "Capacitor of 10uf to 40uf rated minimum 200v for 120 volt inverters. For 220 volt inverters use 5uf to 20uf minimum 400 volts." Are we only using non polarized capacitor? if so you also need to write this and if polarized capacitors can be used then you need to indicate the + and the - on the correct sides.
You may as well have a pic of a MOT! oh yes, also don't call it a MOT! write it out as not everyone are familiar with that term. Show the wires connecting only to the primary and write that the secondary windings (fine wire) are not used.
I also noticed you have H for Hot wire and N for neutral, again we are asking for trouble here. Maybe write it out and include more information as to how one would know which is which.
I hope this is not too much to ask ;D but in the long run if we keep it to this standard of simplicity we will save much time with questions.
@Groundloop if you are ready to do the same with your circuit that would be great since as you said it will be the more bullet proof circuit.
Thanks for all your help.
Luc
Hi Mr.Tesla,
Who is "you guys" anyway?. This forum is an open exchange of ideas from everyone for everyone. People build what they want. I built my design, it works and I shared it. Now I'm building the Nexus circuit because there's cause to believe it works too.
I wasn't aware there was a panel sitting in judgment waiting to rule on a final design that everyone is going to build. I for one feed off of enthusiasm, hope and expectation, but I hope this forum isn't getting hijacked.
Sincerely,
Greg
Hi Luc...
I might also add that if someone feels motivated to help..... a "parts list" would be helpful.......
For instance:
I sent the diagram to a friend who wants to get started...... he looked up the 1N5408 diode ..... and found 5 different "versions"...... so I agree..... the cleaerr and more bullet proof we can make all finalized circuits ..... the less questions and the more SUCCESSES and encouragement we will have.
cheers 2 all ;D
randy
@bwb
The half wave bridge rectifier is just a single diode. Bill used 5 diodes in series on his circuit but stated that they were not all needed. Three would more than likely be sufficient. All you have to do is solder at least 3 diodes together end to end, just like the 60 diode string and the 7 diode cross talk blocker.
I'm not sure about the resistors, maybe someone else can help with that one.
LapperLL
Expert Needed because I'm not :)
On the Nexus circuit.
1.--Could someone show how to make the three to five 1n5408 half bride rectifier?
2.--If you wanted to use resistors with the 1n5408 diodes what size should you use?
I went to this site and I'm still a little confuse on which way to go. http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/articles/Diodes/diodes.shtm
All,
..............................................................................
Comparing the two circuits is not possible. The Nexus circuit uses the motor ignition and timing as it is.
You just add parts to get the plasma flame at the sparkplugs. Greg's circuit uses reed relays and must
be timed by using magnets on the motor flywheel. It is a more complex circuit and is not for the beginner
if you ask me.
.............................................................................
Groundloop.
....@everyone,Hi Luc,
as mentioned in my above post here is the 220v inverter I purchased. I 'm taking a small risk here ($20. delivered :P) and going for a 150 watts inverter since Bill has said in the video that the consumption was only 100ma!!!... and that was using 120 volts! so if that's the case I think a 220 volts 150 watts should do the trick. If not I'll loose a hole $20. :(
Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/150W-Car-Charger-DC-12V-AC-220V-Power-Inverter-Adapter_W0QQitemZ250296515216QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250296515216&_trkparms=39%3A1
Luc
Hi Groundloop,
What you said is incorrect. I used reed switches because they were easy. All triggering hardware uses the distributor's rotor with an optical chopper and gate triggering circuitry ... like one would expect ...NOT on the flywheel. The circuit I posted was the "exact" circuit I used in the VIDEO. That posted circuit is NOT the version that goes in a vehicle. Please don't be so quick to find fault with others' contribution(s) to this effort.
Respectfully,
Greg
Hi Luc,
Thanks for this find. I am jumping on this sparkplug testing because of yours and others posts, so I also bought one. I hope I get it soon here in usa.
Okay all is clear, so let's move on!
@Groundloop, Greg or anyone else good in electronics, I have questions.
Do you think it would be needed to have a higher frequency than 50hz?
If so, do you think we can take a cheap inverter like I just bought ($20. delivered) and modify it to a higher frequency?
If so, can one of you spend $20. and experiment with it?
My thinking is, since these are so cheap and maybe all we need for now, we could use just the circuit from them and add our circuit board (once we test it) which would have the coil, cap, diodes and mount it all in a new box which would have the HV wire leads ready to connect to the plugs.
Let me know what you all think.
Luc
FYI: Page 5 of this thread......
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.msg108905.html#msg108905
just add a cap (and MOT, if you want)....LOL
Things always come full circle........
want more DC volts?
(http://designstudioexpress.com/simple_setup_rev3.png)
All,Hi Groundloop,
My home made small power inverter had its first run today. I used a 230VAC 25 Watt light bulb
on the output. The opto coupler was not in use yet so I just bypassed the 4047 reset to
ground to switch on the oscillator. Later I will use this opto (4N35) as a oscillator on/off switch.
The inverter did run cool and did not blow up! :) Some small problems was detected. The pulse
current demand was high so my lab power supply went "high wire" on the current display.
I will try to solve that problem by adding a input filter to the inverter.
I will also do a longer test run for several hours to see if this inverter can perform well. I will also
provide more data (current usage, frequency etc.) later.
But, it did run! :)
Groundloop.
Has anybody actually tried this in a car?
@gotoluc,
I have looked inside my ready bought Inverter (thus invaliding the factory guarantie).
For me it seems possible to both adjust the output voltage and also the frequency
to some extent (VR1, VR2). How much, I do not know. Attached is a drawing on how I think
this inverter works.
Groundloop.
who would be up to the task of making the changes to the Nexus circuit
Thank you Groundloop I think and hope all is clear ;D
let's move on!
@Groundloop, Greg or anyone else good in electronics, I have some questions.
Do you think it would be needed to have a higher frequency than 50hz?
If so, do you think we can take a cheap inverter like I just bought ($20. delivered) and modify it to a higher frequency?
If so, can one of you spend $20. and experiment with it?
My thinking is, since these are so cheap and maybe all we need for now, we could use just the circuit from them and add the circuit board we will hopefully create (once we test the circuit) which would have the coil, cap, diodes and mount it all in a new box which would have the HV wire leads ready to connect to the plugs. All in one box ready to buy and connect for those who can't build.
Let me know what you all think.
Luc
author=gotoluc link=topic=5024.msg126891#msg126891 date=1221708167]
Hi bwb,
I know it can be confusing when new at this. Believe me this is the simplest it has gotten so far and It took a while to get here. I am trying to help you and others who will come or even those who are here but too shy to post there simple questions so they just keep reading silently in the background so not to interfere with the development and hoping we will post something they can understand.
..............................................................................................
@gmeast > look your schematic is ok but its still far awaaay till i can put this thing in my car couse my car aint a cammaro that S1r has.
Why not double/triple the voltage that comes from the coil stock and already as it is.Would be much simplier.
Yea these circuits are infact a good/superb start but its still long way.1.5 hp engines yea but Modern engines doubt it.
@happyvalley808 > tell S1R to test his thory on electronic fuel injected engine and this time more detail.It dosent help me if i cant reproduce it.
Hi Mr.Tesla,
Understood. The CDI Plasma requires more. Most not familiar with electronics or components will be intimidated. I am concentrating on simplifying but it's just about there. There will be no way around it. A CDI is a different animal. It will require putting an electronic pick up in place of the points in the distributor. It's not for the faint of heart. You'll just have to wait and see how successful the Nexus circuit is if you want a bolt-on or drop-in system. As Groundloop said, "...the two circuits cannot be compared..." I have a feeling that proper integration of these principles into modern vehicle will only be possible on the manufacturing level.
Thanks for your comments. Peace,
Greg
@All,
S1R says he solved the surging problem in his water motor....
> The problem of the surging has been found. In all the time looking
> into the electrical parts as the problem I got ta thinking. Whats
> deferent in all of the applications on all the engines that have
been
> tested.
> The Elcamino and the generator are useing the same parts, the
relays.
> why wont the new stuff do the same? Well looking at the whole
picture
> at once and its hard to see the small details of the system. I
called
> every one who tested the new stuff and they all had the same answer.
>
> ( None of the test engines , mine encluded, were set up so the
> exhaust would be run back to the intake and be reused. )
>
> I was looking over Stan Meyers work when I took notice of this. In
> his notes it showed that the injectors he used also had other gases
> that were being used, what other gases, I thought on this for a
> while, ( 6 months now ), and came to realize what gases he was
> talking about.
>
> So I ask some one a question. What would happen if you were to
> seperate water into hydrogen and oxygen and feed just plain air
with
> it then use this inside an ICE engine, what would the exhaust gases
> be? HNOS was the reply. then I ask what would happen if these gases
> were exhuasted and directed back into the intake of the same
engine,
> what would the results be as the exhaust gases were combined with
the
> first gas mixtures to the intake then burned in the engine? Answer-
A
> constant incress of NOS build up as if you were useing a
pressureized
> tank to feed the gas to the engine, and combined with the
> hydrogen/oxygen mix and water vapor the combustion would be very
fast
> and cause high pressures in the cylinders.
>
> Now the deferences between the test engines and the other two. None
> of the test engines were feeding the exhaust gases back to the
intake
> to reuse the NOS gas as a booster for the water (hydrogen/oxygen)
> being used.
>
> The results of this finding as seems many others was over looked by
> me and the others as well.
>
> A simple thing like reuseing the exhaust gases to help split the
> water at the plug when its fired.
>
> The missing link. The Elcamino and the generators exhaust run to a
> holding tank and then to the engine again. The NOS is in the water
> its self bonded by the effect of compressed explosion in the
> cylinder.
>
> I changed my design so it would work. I hope to show it in Flarida
> next month.
>
> S1R.
@Area51,
I understand everyone's frustration, I agree that it's funny he forgets such important factors........I'm not waiting for S1R to do anything, but I will consider what he has to say....
Regards,
HV
@Area51,
I understand everyone's frustration, I agree that it's funny he forgets such important factors........I'm not waiting for S1R to do anything, but I will consider what he has to say....
Regards,
HV
Guys, if any one wants to know about custom hacked Inverters, needing pulse width modulation etc etc, check out this doc.
http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/files/Trans-verter%20R%20and%20D.pdf
Ash
The Nexus Plasma Arc Circuit
Copyright © 2008
All information is hereby released into the public domain for public use.
"Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power
obtainable at any point in the universe. . .it is a mere question of time when
men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of
nature." - Nikola Tesla
What follows is what I did. I don’t recommend that you do it. It’s dangerous. So don’t do it. But if you do and you (or anybody in your vicinity) gets zapped, it’s your own fault. Read Everything, then read some more - - - -
The inverter is physically and electrically isolated from vehicle ground. Because of this, the only path for 120 VDC is through the dipole created across the spark plug gap.
OK, the Nexus hot wire is connected directly to the engine block, but it’s relative. Just don’t use your inverter for making coffee.
120 VAC from the inverter is directed through a MOT (microwave oven transformer) primary to a half wave rectifier.
The MOT secondary is not used. A MOT secondary has one side tied to the transformer core, so I placed a wire nut on the secondary HV output and gave it a few coats of tool dip – just to make sure.
Without the MOT in series with the input, the plasma arc shoots out two or three inches and welds the anode and cathode of the plug together in short order.
So if you decide to disregard my advice and play with this, be careful.
The MOT can easily be configured into a saturable reactor, which should allow for variable control of the current.
The diodes are all 1N5408 rated at 800V and 3 amps each. They are available through Newark:
for a very reasonable cost – like 150 diodes for around twenty bucks. Newark provides quick shipping and excellent customer service.
http://www.newark.com/58K9608/semiconductorsdiscretes/product.us0?sku=fairchild-semiconductor-1n5408_requestid=75114
The capacitor is 12.5 uF, 250 volt and was taken from the same microwave as the MOT. I don’t think the capacitor values are critical. It’s just in there to keep DC from going away for half an input cycle.
The negative side of the rectified 120 V is directed through a string of diodes sufficient enough to block the ground path through the circuit that the HV from the engine coil will see (remember, nearly anything looks like ground to HV).
The lazy HV will take the easiest path, you know. This will vary with the application. Too few diodes and we don’t get a spark across the plug.
I have two strings of 60 diodes in parallel to provide 48KV of blocking at 6 amps current. I don’t need two strings because the max current I’ve seen through the Nexus circuit is quite a bit less than an amp even with a two inch arc shooting out the plug.
I’m running four plugs in the VW camper van, and all those anodes are connected to the same dipole feed wire from the Nexus supply, which results in spark plug cross fire.
To eliminate crossfire, I installed 7 diodes in series with each individual dipole feed wire. The dipole created across the plug gap creates a nexus to the void – but you knew that, right?
That’s where the energy comes from, and that’s why the current drain on the
Nexus supply is so low. I can explain all this (from my perspective, of course) if you’re interested, but before you ask, you should resolve the question:
What has less resistance than a short?
If you understand the dipole and the nexus contained therein, you’re on your way to even more interesting things, like free energy from magnets, what E=MC2 really means, what happens after we ‘die’ and much more.
Yeah – it’s all very simple. That’s it. Let’s work together on this. I don’t do politics, but it would be nice to get out from under terrorism and back to a free country again.
So, if you make improvements, please share them with everyone so we can get off fossil fuel. I’ll be happy to post your links to relevant stuff and we have a forum that you’re welcome to use.
Guys, if any one wants to know about custom hacked Inverters, needing pulse width modulation etc etc, check out this doc.
http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/files/Trans-verter%20R%20and%20D.pdf
Ash
Loading the sides of 3PH transformers A, C phase exteriorizes and projects FIELD outside transformer. If another LOOP is used it becomes a magneto-transistor. Experimentation is the key to obtain these effects.
Impressive stuff groundloop, you work fast ;D
Just a quick question, Im looking for a cheap place to get a PCB done. I usually make my PCB at home, the artwork is done on protel/altium. Its the solder mask that really bothers me, its not easy soldering without solder mask on the PCB.
Did you do yours at home or did you get it made?
Im actually designing a CDI, based on 2 power MOSFETs + high side drivers + PIC + hall effects.
The advance/retard is controlled by the PIC on the fly up to +/- 30 deg. Mapping can also be added with ease.
Its only a test circuit at the moment, so far it seems to be working fine, still alot of coding and testing to do. Funny enough I got stuck in getting the tachometer part to work properly LOL.
Im not gonna bother with the inverter at the moment though. Im just gonna use what I already have.
Its already done http://www.lightspeedengineering.com/Products/IgnitionBasics.htm
How is the Nexus circuit triggered with engine RPM or is it er.... Im lost how it knows when to fire if anyone can explain plz do.. :-[
this is still in experimental stage so i wouldnt play with it until these guys make some sort of conclusion wich design is best.If you want to live don't play with it.
Hi Luc,
I'm not sure if this will be of use for the Nexus style circuit but I solved the frequency issue for my type of CDI producing your water spark effect.
It needs to be said that my circuit triggering method is NOT what you would put in a vehicle. The proper technique is either Hall effect or optical chopper on the distributor shaft.
The diagram below solves my frequency issue by replacing the Charge Triac with a Charge Power Mosfet. I also added a 470 uf -400 VDC Cap shown right under the FWB. This makes a DC power supply of sorts. The circuit has never been more stable I am so happy!.
To anyone looking to experiment with a multiple spark plug CDI Plasma system, this is a very stable configuration. In 'real' CDI systems the charge side is usually more sophisticated but the big Cap, FWB and Power Mosfet has solved several technical challenges using easily obtained components.
Enjoy. Peace,
Greg
(http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/ren_energy/spark_plug/distrib1.jpg)
author=gotoluc link=topic=5024.msg126891#msg126891 date=1221708167]
Hi bwb,
I know it can be confusing when new at this. Believe me this is the simplest it has gotten so far and It took a while to get here. I am trying to help you and others who will come or even those who are here but too shy to post there simple questions so they just keep reading silently in the background so not to interfere with the development and hoping we will post something they can understand.
How am I suppose to take your statement.Is it OK for us simpletons to ask questions here or should we stay in the background and not interfere. ??? ;DSimpletons stay silently in the background and do not interfere.
Just joking - Don't get upset
My hopes are we will come to a very simple circuit and or kit one could buy made or assemble themselves, it is a question of time, sharing and involvement that will bring us there. My hopes are to make it available for close to what it would cost you to buy the parts alone.
That would be great and I hope you suceed
To answer your question, there is no resistors in the circuit. Resistors would cancel the effect of the circuit. You also need to remove resistors from inside your plugs or buy non resistor plugs. Video demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J2AHNZUZD0
All diodes in the circuit are in series.
I know there is no resistors in the circuit.
I also know about the plugs! I have posted a link several times here for a online store that carries a wide range of NR plugs.
What I was wanting to know with the resistor question? I was wondering if running resistors in parallel with each diode as geovel156 did in his plasma circuit to help protect the diodes could be applied to the Nexus circuit. Reading up on diodes I found they say to do this to help stop the reverse voltage avalanche breakdown effect when running diodes in series..I will be using a12vdc to120vac inverter with1N5408 1000V 3A diodes and was needing to know what size resistor would be best to try because I had no ideal how to even calculate that and if it would even work.or if it was even needed. But since you say it will not work I will not even try it.Below is a part of geovel56 post back on page 21.
geovel56 Plasma Arc Circuit and part of his Reply #832 and Reply #834
"Sometimes a diode may not have all the proper characteristics as rated. If one diode is actually weaker and internally not functioning up to specifications, it will blow and cause a cascading chain of blown diodes. The 500K ohm resistors in parallel with the diodes equalizes the diodes".
Thanks to everyone who help answer my questions and especially about the "??half bridge rectifier??.":-X Goodby everyone--This will be me in the background watching
Ok everyone,
This is just some free energy stuff ... energy from the void ... from the vortex ...from the aether ... from the seething vacuum, etc.
I posted a video and proposed some conclusions about what initiates the plasma burst we're all working on.
This was just fun to do. Nothing scientific, just interesting.
The video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB247Gy4Mg4
Peace,
Greg
Guys, if any one wants to know about custom hacked Inverters, needing pulse width modulation etc etc, check out this doc.
http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/files/Trans-verter%20R%20and%20D.pdf
Ash
I have remade the Nexus diagram as requested by Luc with the changes
adding every single diode made the image far too complex so its just image and description changes
the blank area on the left may be large enough for a parts list when we get the info
@Luc
please delete the image if anything is incorrect... I wasn't sure about the half wave bridge rectifier as on the original it said 3 to 5 1N5408 but you mentioned 4 diodes in series so I drew the diodes in the same direction as on the original and drew the diodes like the others to show them in series
EDIT: changed font error and size of image
Hi Greg,
I have two questions about your circuit if you don't mind.
What is the purpose of the diode across the + and - terminals of the ignition coil? Are there different effects with it and without it?
Hi Greg,
Thanks for the explanation. So, the coil being inductive, when the triac is on, the coil's magnetic field is at its expanded state in one direction and the diode is not conducting. But when the triac turns off, the magnetic field collapses and induces a voltage across the coil in the opposite direction but faster if un-impeded. But because the polarity of the induced voltage now places the diode into its conducting mode impedes the speed of collapse and maybe prolongs this condition?
Also, I think that by being a CDI, at the moment the triac turns on, the high voltage at the secondary spikes very fast and very high, much faster than the one induced by the collapse.
Sorry if I am inquisitive. I just want to have a better understanding when I build one like it.
Thank you for posting the parts list. I now see I've missed a part and will order it. Again ;D Thanks very much Greg.
Mike
@Gotoluc,
Thanks to you and everyone for the great work.....
On the nexus circuit, the only correction needed would be on the cap is it AC or DC ?
Regards,
HV
Hi,
Which one did you miss? I want to make sure I listed everything correctly. It's hard to edit your own work. The fuse is not in the diagrams. Thanks.
Again, you can use long strings of inexpensive diodes instead of the hideously expensive HV ones.
Best wishes,
Greg
@gotoluc,
One other issue.
Is the ignition voltage from the high coil, negative or positive on modern CDI driven cars?
We know for a fact that the voltage is negative on Bill's WW car.
( That car uses mechanical contacts for the ignition coil. )
Does anybody has some information on this?
Groundloop.
@insane4evr,NP.
Thanks for doing the measurements.
Groundloop.
@ Groundloop,
Thanks.
So, does that mean that for a 4-cylinder engine, the RPM of the distributor is the same as the main shaft?
@Groundloop and michaelpaul,
Thanks. So, in a 4-stroke engine, if the repetition rate of a spark of one cylinder is every 42.5 milliseconds, then:
F=1/T = 1/.0425 = 23.529 Hz or rps.
23.529 x 60 = 1411 distributor RPM
1411 x 2 = 2822 crankshaft RPM. Correct? I hope I am learning thus stuff. :)
I have remade the Nexus diagram as requested by Luc with the changes
adding every single diode made the image far too complex so its just image and description changes
the blank area on the left may be large enough for a parts list when we get the info
@Luc
please delete the image if anything is incorrect... I wasn't sure about the half wave bridge rectifier as on the original it said 3 to 5 1N5408 but you mentioned 4 diodes in series so I drew the diodes in the same direction as on the original and drew the diodes like the others to show them in series
EDIT: changed font error and size of image
@apcwzrd,
I fully agree, the battery minus and the engine ground is the same.
Another way to test the ignition voltage polarity is to first use one diode string connected to one spark plug.
Then you put the end of the diode string near the engine ground. If a spark is jumping from the diode
string then the diode string is the wrong way around.
Groundloop.
Been watching from the sidelines but felt the need to jump in and ask some questions regarding Bill's Nexus circuit.
1. If the output from the MOT is connected to engine ground, and engine ground is connected to the minus terminal of the battery - are they not the same electrical potential? Why does bill say to connect the capacitor to minus battery terminal and NOT the output of the MOT. It seems to me that the circuit would work either way. What am I missing here?
2. The inverter is marked NEU and HOT on the output. Since the output is an AC voltage how do the terms NEU and HOT apply?
My cousin and I created the nexus circuit and tried it on one plug removed from my 1996 Geo Metro - just as Bill demonstrated in his video. With the engine running and the 400 watt inverter turned off there was no spark at the plug. When I removed the DC connection (60 1N5408's) then the HV spark showed up. That should have been my first clue. I connected the 120V DC back to the plug and turned the Inverter on.....Instant smoke! I am now a member of the fried inverter club :-\
I will try the simple dual LED trick posted earlier to determine whether I have a negative or positive HV spike and connect the diodes accordingly. I believe this is a crucial step in getting the Nexus circuit to work - and to keep from frying inverters!
Cheers,
Tom
Be sure that your inverter is (insulated) not grounded to the body or it could short circuit.
@gmeast
Thanks for posting your latest schematics, YOU THE MAN!!!
@Greg
Thank you, and no it's not at all confusing now. The only request I have is, could you briefly touch on how and what type isolation transformer you are using? What role does it play exactly, and since I don't CURRENTLY have one, could this keep me from frying inverters on a daily basis. Sorry for asking if you have already answered these questions somewhere else.
Later.....................Mike
My 2 cents - re:fried inverters.......it might be worth using 120V AC rectified as your test bench and iron out the bugs first. This at least will also allow us to provide as much or as little power as needed, then once we have the bugs out, implement using an inverter. It is possible we need more than 300 Watts - using rectified mains AC will allow us to dial up what we need and test.
Has anyone tried delivering say 500 Watts per plug to see the effect?
Thanks Greg,
I understand the isolation transformer alot better after reading your description. I have definitely got to get one. I like the idea though of using grid power to get everything working correctly before hooking up an inverter. Should knock down the number of fried inverters for sure! I've used power from the wall a few times to test circuits, but I didn't know if I was in a safe range of operation as far as the 12V + and - of the battery tying into the coil and relays and such. I guess if something happened it would just trip the breaker in the panel. You're right, much easier to reset the breaker than replace the inverters, cheaper too! As for the Nexus circuit.......Wilber said he made it work using a full-wave bridge instead of half-wave that Mr. Bill used. Using a FWB, if it in fact works, should then allow the use of the isolation transformer from the inverter. The MOT should still be able to have one leg fed through it to "bias the current", as Mr. Bill puts it, to keep from welding the spark plug ends together. The isolation transformer could very well solve the entire problem for everyone! Testing will show, as soon as I get one. I'll post as soon as I find out.
BTW, that is a nice looking distributor you got there! I'm sure it will work as good as it looks and it will be smooth sailing for you in operation. I know you will keep us updated, and we all appreciate that for sure. Later......................Mike
@gmeast,
Nice work. I notice that every other pulse is wider than the other. Will it affect timing uniformity of each cylinder firing?
@Greg
I probably should just use the grid for power then, until I get the circuit to function correctly. Would I have any protection by putting a fuse between the FWB and the isolation transformer? I don't know what to really think about this Nexus circuit, but I will try a little longer to make it work. If I can't get it, I will most likely just order all the stuff I need to build your circuit instead.
Later.......................................Mike
All,
I'm one step closer to try out the plasma ignition circuit in my car. Today I finally
got the inverter done. I have tested the inverter on two different toroid transformers.
A 18V + 18V to 230V transformer will give out 117VAC with a 25 Watt load. This is close
to the 110 VAC used in some countries. When I run the inverter on a 9V + 9V to 230V
transformer then I get 218 VAC with a 25 Watt load.
The inverter frequency is approx. 1000Hz. The input filter is performing well and there is
little noise on the 12 VDC input lines. Attached is the final inverter drawing.
[EDIT] Attached a image of the inverter output.
Groundloop.
Hi all,
Very interesting topic!Hope to started soon. I'm in the process of collecting parts.
A question though: I read all those people frying inverters, I was wondering, the alternator makes full wave sinus (before rectifying). Isn't it possible to take this wave and step up the voltage with an extra transformer?
Terence
New and reading!
Hi Groundloop,One way I can think of is to add an analog mux chip between the 4047 outputs and the gates of the mosfets.
Can the circuit be switched on and off so it could be used as an active charge component in a CDI system?
Greg
@insane4evr,You are probably right on the low standby power. I am just answering gmeast's question.
Yes, and also two NAND gates will do. By using NAND gates we ensure
that both transistor gates will be low when not triggered. The two NAND gates
can be triggered from a opto coupler etc.
But do we really need to switch of the inverter? The stand by usage is less than 4 Watt.
Groundloop.
FYI: Page 5 of this thread......
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.msg108905.html#msg108905
just add a cap (and MOT, if you want)....LOL
Things always come full circle........
want more DC volts?
(http://designstudioexpress.com/simple_setup_rev3.png)
@gmeast,
Really nice work, it looks great.... I can't wait to see her running!!!
Is your VW an every day car or project vehicle ?
Aloha,
HV
I second the above post, please keep us updated. This might sound funny, but are you planning to put a switch near the dashboard inorder to switch between plasma spark and regular spark so you can test it while driving and what not? Or can this become difficult?
@gmeast,
Do you plan on firing that baby up soon ?
What type of generator ?
HV
@gmeast,
Really nice work, it looks great.... I can't wait to see her running!!!
I modified the generator-end and put a 1:2 reducer so I could time it and not have the extra spark from the magneto.
Hi Greg
Where did you buy your gears and what size/how many teeth per gear are they so I can buy a similar set? I want to make a similar modification to my generator.
My project is to get my generator (10HP engine) to run on a combination of HHO & water.
Thanks
DonL
I third that Greg ;D
Most excellent stability. Your are way past me now man ;)
Thanks for sharing
Luc
Can't that part be bought in stock from some car shop?
Gmeast, just watced your video, really impressed, looks like some real clout there.
Best of luck with all your projects.
Regards, Bren.
Hi Luc,Just got the 12vdc to 240vac inverter I ordered and examined it.
Thanks for this find. I am jumping on this sparkplug testing because of yours and others posts, so I also bought one. I hope I get it soon here in usa.
Hi everyone,
I have posted a short video showing the final bench testing and demo of the original Gotoluc-Lindemann isolated water spark plug circuit configured for a 4-cylinder engine.
The hardware is ready for installation in a vehicle and I'll be placing it in my '64 VW Bug. I hope you enjoy the video.
The video is located at:
YouTube - final bench test - distributed plasma CDI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz6rbF_4huM)
Peace,
Greg
Greg! Excellent work! I believe we are finally coming to the end. Had you posted your solid state schematic, or have i just missed it? Keep up the good work and we'll keep on experimenting on this end and sharing any and all info.
You are moving up on my "hero list" …move over sir hoax!
;)
1stcor
Hi everyone,
a YouTube user: honda4004 posted a comment on my Water Power test 3 video to search for Pistol Shimp on YouTube.
Here are the videos that I found. Very interesting I must say :D
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ONQlTMUYCW4&feature=related
Luc
HI all,
Here is the parts list for the plasma CDI I built:
...
1 ea. 1:1 x 150 VA isolation transformer
...
Peace,
Greg
@happyvalley808,
If you use a 110 VAC inverter and needs approx. 40 Watt then use a 110VAC to 110VAC 40 Watt transformer.
Connect the inverter to one of the transformer pairs, connect plasma circuit to the other pair. (For 230VAC you must use a 230VAC to 230VAC transformer.) You still need a series coil on the plasma circuit! See drawing.
What you are doing is insulating the inverter from the plasma circuit.
Groundloop.
Greg
Where did you get your isolation transformer?
I'm seeing prices of $250+ and specifications in kv. ????
Thanks for your work and help on this,
DonL
Hi dllabarre,
Try McMaster-Carr. The exact transformer I am using is:
70245K71 CONTROL TRANSFORMER WITH PLUG & CONNECTOR, 150 VA, 115V INPUT, 115V OUTPUT
@ $70.90
It has a 115VAC plug/jack in/out. Very convenient. If you're using 115VAC use a 1A in-line fuse in one of the legs (in or out) ... best in both.
Peace,
Greg
I suggest the following:
http://www.dynaflow-inc.com/Publication/pdf_documents/SV-66-Spark.pdf
http://www.dynaflow-inc.com/Services/BubbleDynamics_files/BubbleDynamics.htm
more here:
http://www.dynaflow-inc.com/Publication/FullTextReports/Fulltext_Bubble_Cav.htm
and then hydrosonic... sonoluminescence....Griggs Cavitation ecc ecc
Wings
infoscience.epfl.ch/record/85686/files/PRL%20final.pdf
http://www.truveo.com/tag/cavitation
Wings
http://www.idac.rm.cnr.it/laboratory_files/idac02c.mpg
new video at Energetic Tube:
http://www.energetictube.com/play/Vacuum_Radiant_Energy/plasma%20CDI%20in%20vehicle
Hi wings,
thanks for your interest and for adding all these documents and the video link. I'm not much of a scientific guy but I know many who are in the background reading maybe interested in these.
We also have a new member from the Energetic Forum that has been studying this effect since the beginning. A welcome to user name: Discharge
Please do keep up this important study to ultimately find the best use for this effect.
Luc
Hi everyone,
a YouTube user: honda4004 posted a comment on my Water Power test 3 video to search for Pistol Shimp on YouTube.
Here are the videos that I found. Very interesting I must say :D
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ONQlTMUYCW4&feature=related
Luc
Because of the way Energetic Tube processes video, the close ups of the plug appears to be skipping, but in actuality it is not. Hopefully the YouTube upload will be better.
Greg
The YouTube upload is complete ... a little better quality video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fj4LeCnAUQ
The YouTube upload is complete ... a little better quality video:Nice Job!! The engine seems to run really smooth I hope to see more ICE's running with this spark soon."Including one of mine" ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fj4LeCnAUQ
that looks nice and smooth , how did it drive?.
@gmeast,
This is very exciting development. Finally, a car running with plasma sparks.
Perhaps a before and after driving pictures of the plug electrodes to compare with none plasma spark wear rate will be good to know.
Very peppy. Lugging the engine at full throttle it doesn't miss a beat ... you can feel every cylinder fire. Most importantly, I did not have to choke the engine to warm up. All engines need a richer mixture to warm up on, but It took right off without hesitation. This by itself is an unexpected potential fuel savings. It is very exciting! Next will be gasoline and alcohol emulsions then experimentation with distilled water.
Thanks for your interest,
Greg
Very peppy. Lugging the engine at full throttle it doesn't miss a beat ... you can feel every cylinder fire. Most importantly, I did not have to choke the engine to warm up. All engines need a richer mixture to warm up on, but It took right off without hesitation. This by itself is an unexpected potential fuel savings. It is very exciting! Next will be gasoline and alcohol emulsions then experimentation with distilled water.
Thanks for your interest,
Greg
The YouTube upload is complete ... a little better quality video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fj4LeCnAUQ
Most excellent work and video demo Greg ;D
Amazing to see how quick it starts :o
You are in the number one spot light now. Congratulations :D
Thanks for sharing.
Luc
Hi everyone!!
I finally finished reading your whole topic....(ahhh.... Thank God!!)
First post here, to say MEN YOU HAVE DONE AN AWSOME WORK HERE!!!!
I made a huge amount of notes!!
I am a student (my age is 17) and I have a lot of homework to do for school, so there's no time for experiments and construction stuff.
I hope after finishing school (around this May - June) I will be able to buy an old used car as to make a project.
I would also like to thank you ALL, especially Gotoluc and others, for starting this topic and sharing everything!!
Keep updating, and the GREAT work!!!!
Regards,
Zissis
Athens, Greece
Dear Greg
I use super bug too, 1971, i try to do the same as your,
I have questions.
witch circuit you use now.
from your picture, look like diode seem parallel
not series like in nuxsus circuit?
Do CDI necessary? can I use normal point?
Thanks,
zzzz
Diode strings can be used in place of the parallel diodes I use. Because I use lower voltage, I did not want the IxR or cascading loss(s) of multiple diode drops in the long diode strings.
***HIGH VOLTAGE***please be careful with ALL of this.
Peace,
Greg
Hi Greg
How many NTE517 diodes do you have PER spark plug. The diagram shows just 1 but in your picture it looks like more. I'm referring to the componets in the picture that are between the purple wire and the brown wire that is going to each spark plug wire on the distributor cap.
Are there any other componets in your diagram that really should show multiple?
Thanks
DonL
Hi zzzz
No this is the water plasma spark circuit,(not Bill's nexus one) and You can find Greg's CDI circuit in these pages, the energetic forum, or in the groups PDF :)
This PDF is listed on page one of the thread listed as being on the panacea university site
Great job Luc
:)
I am not sure that I agree with you that radiant energy is involved ...
............................
gary
Dear diary... ;D
Today I manage to run my engine on plasma.
Then I had a step back because after 5 seconds or so, my UPS ran out of batteries. I think the batteries are worn out.
The 2 paralel 300W bulbs light up very bright showing that the cap were being charged so it was working.
The engine sound better.
Does any one know a easy way for making a gasoline-water emulsion?
Dear diary... ;D
Today I manage to run my engine on plasma.
Then I had a step back because after 5 seconds or so, my UPS ran out of batteries. I think the batteries are worn out.
The 2 paralel 300W bulbs light up very bright showing that the cap were being charged so it was working.
The engine sound better.
Does any one know a easy way for making a gasoline-water emulsion?
Great to hear. Running on gas?
Dear diary... ;D
Today I manage to run my engine on plasma.
Then I had a step back because after 5 seconds or so, my UPS ran out of batteries. I think the batteries are worn out.
The 2 paralel 300W bulbs light up very bright showing that the cap were being charged so it was working.
The engine sound better.
Does any one know a easy way for making a gasoline-water emulsion?
Hi zzzz,
The circuit I am using is an adaptation of the very original circuit that Gotoluc demonstrated and then opened this thread. In my circuit, the Cap is isolated and charged, then it is isolated again and then discharged to the coil as a pulse. This can be done with a SPDT relay but the points will die early and can't cycle very fast.
If you could cram a second set of points into the distributor housing then you could use standard points to trigger the power Mosfets I use. But I chose to use a standard points conversion for VW's that replaces the points with a solid state sensor and then added an extra sensor ... one for Charging the Cap and one for Discharging the Cap to the Coil.
The Nexus circuit uses the standard coil, points and voltage then 'piggybacks' a plasma spark onto the standard spark using the standard spark as a 'starter' path for the plasma to cross the gap on .... like a Tig welding machine with 'high-frequency soft- start'... GENIUS. I chose to use the original circuit concept and made it solid state ... for science reasons.
Please note that my system uses much lower voltage to the Cap than other systems because of my choice of power Mosfets ... voltage limitations, cost, availability, etc.
Diode strings can be used in place of the parallel diodes I use. I use 4ea. parallel per channel to get a higher current capability. Because I use lower voltage, I did not want the IxR and/or cascading loss(s) of multiple diode drops in the long diode strings.
Two circuits follow and the third pic is a scope capture of charge and discharge trigger signals from the modified distributor. My rendition of the original circuit is more difficult to make than the Nexus circuit but many here are capable of pulling it off: Not shown are the 1A fuses into and out of the isolation transformer ... these are a "must-have" to protect the components.
***HIGH VOLTAGE***please be careful with ALL of this.
Peace,
Greg
Hi Greg,
I was wondering if I should and could update my first page post by adding your circuit and pictures so it could be an easy reference point when newcomers ask where to find it.
What would you think of this?
If you like the idea you may want to write all the information needed to explain like something you did above and it may help to reduce questions asked. We could refer newcomers to first read all the information and if they still have questions I could update your document with the answers.
Please let me know what you think of this or if you have ideas
Luc
Hi gmeast!
GREAT work you've done there! You have done the only one working project here!! Great video posted, and all showed!!
Me and all others are waiting for the "magic" video, to introduce water into your CDI plasma VW Bug, And see If it works!!!!
@Luc
Thanks for your wishes for my last school year!!
I will keep reading all of the updates.
Thank you and I will post EVERTYTHING ... plus and minus.
Greg
Best wishes,
Zissis
has anyone thought about combining the pulstar spark plugs (http://www.pulstar.com/ignition-velocity.html) (they have a corona discharge to them...meaning a small amount of plasma)
and using the nology plasma wires (http://www.autoaccessorystore.com/home_n.asp?dir=detail&id=1550) (thus enhancing the corona effect to a much much higher degree causing a larger area of plasma)
here is the pulstar plug quick understanding. (http://www.pulstar.com/energy-efficiency.html)
here are the nology wires stepping voltage to a plasma level BUT THERE ARE BAD THINGS ABOUT THESE CAPCITIVE WIRES WHICH CAN DESTROY YOUR PLUGS.
SO WIRES SUCH AS http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/main.htm (http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/main.htm) which are non capacitive type inductor wires should be used.
this could be our plasma injector withouth the need of a whole new circuit.
please be sure to click all the links.
any ideas on this?
To all -- A little help. :P
I finished up my Nexus plasma system. I have a standard electronic V8 ignition system off of a Dodge set up on a work bench. The distributor has the oem magnetic pickup in it(not points).I'm firing eight plugs with the Nexus system and getting a really nice consistent plasma ball with 120vac from the wall.I do admit that at first it was burning up my test plugs (melting) until I found the right combination of a starting capacity off of a furnace blower and a smaller transformer out of a small microwave oven.My problem I'm having is when I hook the system up to the 12vdc to 120vac inverter--then connect it to the battery that also powers the ignition system-- I'm getting some kind of feedback. As soon as I turn on the inverter the transformer starts to hum and the inverter fault light comes on.I can hook the inverter up to a separate 12vdc battery supply and everything works perfect.All plugs fire and never misses a beat with a really nice plasma ball spark. Could this be because the inverter I have is a modify sine wave and that I need what they call a pure wave inverter.Has anyone else had this problem and how did you cure it.Any thoughts or ideals would be appreciated.
Thanks
@gmeast,
Have you noticed any overheating in your diodes.......
What is the longest amount of time you have ran the engine with the plasma ignition ?
HV
Hi bwb,
I'm no expert with the Nexus circuit but it sounds to me you have a ground problem. The case of the inverter should not touch the ground.
Luc
@gmeast,
How many amps is your system drawing off the inverter ?
When you say increase in economy do you mean your getting better MPG...if so how much ?
Regards,
HV
Hi HV,I have to say one thing.I plan on building your circuit.It seems to be the way to go.But not being a electronics expert I'm starting out playing with the simple nexus circuit.You know! Put transformer here,put diodes here. I hope you don't mind it when I start being a pain in your back asking this and that :D But i will do a search for the answers first.Maybe you can make a idiot proof layout of your circuit? It looks to me that it could be hook up to a standard electronic ignition system with no problems at all.
This is to everyone:
It is unreliable to use most of the digital current measuring devices you buy. They don't even measure modified sine wave inverter current reliably because of the square wave. On top of that, all of these systems are transferring power as "pulses" and these digital devices can't compute wattage correctly. They like "smooth" DC and sine wave AC. The most reliable way to measure power in a pulsing circuit is to use a shunt and a scope and compute the power across the shunt.
Greg
Thanks for the response. I have followed your post and to me you are an expert. :)
The case is not grounded to anything on the outside of it.Could it be that the inverter circuit itself is causing the connection by the way it produces the ac current?Since it is a modify sine wave form and not a pure wave form? Should I Just open it up and undo any internal grounds and hope for the best?BOOM ;D :o Any ideals welcomed.I do remember that the original plasma arc circuit that got this all started had to have a independent power supply.So I'm thinking maybe the type of inverter and the way it produces the ac may have something to do with it?Any experts on inverters out there? :P ;)Better yet has anyone else got the nexus to work on a Modify sine wave inverter with a positive output from your coil using only one battery?
I have to say one thing.I plan on building your circuit.It seems to be the way to go.But not being a electronics expert I'm starting out playing with the simple nexus circuit.You know! Put transformer here,put diodes here. I hope you don't mind it when I start being a pain in your back asking this and that :D But i will do a search for the answers first.Maybe you can make a idiot proof layout of your circuit? It looks to me that it could be hook up to a standard electronic ignition system with no problems at all.
Hi bwb,
I'm quite sure that it has nothing to do with the modified sine wave as it works when you isolate it using another battery so that would show you it is an isolation problem.
If anyone here has a suggestion please go for it as I have no good remedy.
Luc
Thankyou gotoluc
I will do a check on the circuits ground and hopefully find the problem.I appreciate your input and advice very much.I will post it if I find the problem.
Thankyou again.
Bob
PS-- Here is something my brother and I plan on burning with the plasma arc. Woodgas compress in a tank. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2N0a6Swi00
Hi gmeast,
Thanks for your average current draw calculation. Since the way I understand your circuit, all power comes from the inverter, can you measure inverter current draw from the battery to compare it with the calculation? I am not sure if it will be pulsing or will be filtered by the inverter internal capacitors, etc.
@gmeast,
I was hoping that you could answer a question in regards to the solid state relays that you are using. Most SSR's require a voltage drop on the secondary side in order for the relay to disengage. This does not appear to be the case with the Crydom relays that you are using. Do the Crydom relays disengage when the voltage is dropped on the primary side like a standard relay?
Thanks for all of your efforts.
LapperLL
Hey Guys,
I just hooked up a HEI Distributor from a Chevy 350 to fire plasma! I have it locked in a vice on the bench, wired out to an external coil, worked great charging the cap to 120V. HOWEVER, when I added a voltage doubler circuit to the cap, I fried the ignition module. (I wanted that extra bang, just got it in the wrong place) My fault, I think, I failed to isolate the grounding circuits from each other. Question is this, what would be a good way to "in-line" protect the module from harm's way? Would a few 1 amp fuses in all directions from the module be a good start? It was perfectly happy with the cap firing at 120V. Closer to 300V.......not so happy. Don't want to switch to frying modules instead of inverters. The inverters only cost $40, my boss just replaced the module, it was $55. I have spark again now. This underway experiment is an attemp to fuse together the "piggy-back" Nexus circuit technology with the "gmeast" "super isolated CDI plasma" circuit technology. Since I like both circuits, why not try to use a degree of both circuits and hook up a V-8 to see if it will work well enough. My boss just got a digital video camera that will allow me to FINALLY upload videos to the computer and then the web. I will be recording my first EVER video to upload maybe later today, subject.....V-8 HEI CDI Plasma!!! (if I can keep from frying ignition modules, that is). Wish me luck, any insight on protecting the ignition module is appreciated and needed. Thanks everyone for all the help freely given here. Later.......................................Mike
@gmeast,
Have you noticed any overheating in your diodes.......
What is the longest amount of time you have ran the engine with the plasma ignition ?
HV
Hi gmeast,
Thanks for your average current draw calculation. Since the way I understand your circuit, all power comes from the inverter, can you measure inverter current draw from the battery to compare it with the calculation? I am not sure if it will be pulsing or will be filtered by the inverter internal capacitors, etc.
On multiple discharge:
If you want to discharge the capacitor 3 times, you will have to be very quick to charge it up.
I don't think it is practical.
My proposal is to charge the 3 capacitors prior to reaching TDC and firing them at desired intervals.
This puts heavy demands on the circuit design.
Hi insane4evr,
I have taken the measurement with an analog amp meter and here are the results with final calcs in watts:
.....
and Wp agrees pretty good with Wi. Compared 211.6 W to 208 W.
Peace,
Greg
Man you really know your stuff. And a mathematician even.
Thank you very much.
On multiple discharge:I havn't folllowed this thread long so this might be coverd allready. Anyway MSD makes a long line of HiPef egnition products that can deliver an insane voltage mulipule spark discarge at any timeing you may need. They can be pricey but go to Sumitt Racing or Jegs and you might get some ideas, you never know we gear heads might be able to help
If you want to discharge the capacitor 3 times, you will have to be very quick to charge it up.
I don't think it is practical.
My proposal is to charge the 3 capacitors prior to reaching TDC and firing them at desired intervals.
This puts heavy demands on the circuit design.
Hi rfsimoes, good for you :D
A topic was started by user: goldenequity on Emulsifying here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5450.0
I hope he is still around since no new posts have been posted for some time but you would be amazed with all the information he has put together in such a small amount of time. Thanks goldenequity
Luc
Hi all,
Has anyone come across a good source for capacitors? I've been using surplus store Caps for the plasma CDI. Does anyone know about photo flash caps?
Thanks in advance,
Greg
Hi Greg,
I've got about 6 or 8 photo flash caps from a box of disposable cameras my uncle gave me. They are 330vdc and about 160uf. I tried them and they work well. He picked up those cameras for free from some photo shops (after they remove the film to develop)
That's about all I know
Luc
PS @everyone, I have not been posting as much since I'm doing many tests on a very interesting circuit to which I hope to share soon.
Hi all,
Yesterday I ran my engine on gasoline and plasma for some stable and reliable minutes.
The experience was so encouraging that today I decided to go ahead with water alone but it was a no go.
I puled and puled that cord and nothing.
I could only hear a loud bang at the exhaust but no power stroke. :'(
Sadly
rfsimoes
I got question again,
yester I went to electronics shop to buy 400w 12-220 V inverter
ther ask me what type do you want?
they sell 3 type
1.pure sine wave, most expensive lets say prices 7x.
2.modify sine wave, middle prices 4x.
3.modify square wave. from chaina, very cheep. 1x
body is the same, they test with TV for me, all of them work fine with.
but with fluorescent lamp with square wave have alitle bit blink,(very little)...
which one is proper for the circuit,
Thanks,
zzzz
I was too excited, so I had to make a quick video. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YDq6pLxQGU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YDq6pLxQGU)
I'll have to do more testing tomorrow, it's getting late and the wife will kill me if I stay up late again!! >:(
LapperL
Hi all
I just finished with a brain storm that paid off.
I named it "VEXUS" just for fun.
I designed a CDI/Conventional ignition hybrid that has:
stability
no SCR's
no Mosfets
no twitchy inductors (no MOT parts)
tuneability
scaleability
adaptability
simplicity
. . . . phew!
It piggybacks onto standard 12 VDC Coil.
Definable by conventional theory.
Can be explained in terms of "soft start" technology used on my 30 year old Tig welding equipment.
Video is at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze43yeqbYSs
Peace,
Greg
Excellent Greg!... I like it...and the name ;D
You've got a good sense of humor. :D Good for you
Are you going to post a circuit?
Luc
Hi Luc,Great solution. You've positively re-affirmed that K.I.S.S. wins again! ...... ;) KneeDeep
Absolutely am going to post the circuit. It took less time to build it than to draw it. Tomorrow you'll see the circuit.
Peace,
Greg
Guys Bill also needs some answers as do we all for this circuit, please take a look :)
--------------------------
-----------------------------------
There seems to be some EXCELLENT info, at this link. Scroll down to near the end.
Link (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=628.15)
Hi all,
New VexUs multi-spark plug circuit operating with standard 12VDC coil now on video at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diA3TbNzuUA
Peace,
Greg
Hi greg,
With your new circuit will it be neccesary to isolate the inverter ?
In your video's of the new circuit are you using mains AC or an inverter to power the circuit?
Thanks for your help....
Regards,
HV
Great job Greg ;D
Thanks very much..., this the thing I waiting for. ;D ;D ;D
please help to solve my question.
from your explanation, If i want to rev at 6000 rpm, 4 cyl, time consume in each spark is 5ms. or 0.005 s
so you reccomend to use 5 time less that mean 1 ms for charging, right? ???
if correct, what differences between High C Low R that give the same RC vaule as Low C high R. and for this 22uf with 45Ohm is ok. have effect with spark plug eating?
and about isolate transformer, it 1:1 correct, but it can't find it nearest is 1:2 ( 110 to 220V ) can i use 220 invertor and stepdown to 110 and use with this circuit. ???
as your reccomend to keep lowest resistacnes in all system, but i can't fine non resistances spark plug here.. :P How can i make VexUs work?
Dear Luc,
Thanks you, i broght china inverter. ;)
Regard
zzzz
Great job Greg ;D
Thanks very much..., this the thing I waiting for. ;D ;D ;D
please help to solve my question.
from your explanation, If i want to rev at 6000 rpm, 4 cyl, time consume in each spark is 5ms. or 0.005 s
so you reccomend to use 5 time less that mean 1 ms for charging, right? ???
if correct, what differences between High C Low R that give the same RC vaule as Low C high R. and for this 22uf with 45Ohm is ok. have effect with spark plug eating?
and about isolate transformer, it 1:1 correct, but it can't find it nearest is 1:2 ( 110 to 220V ) can i use 220 invertor and stepdown to 110 and use with this circuit. ???
as your reccomend to keep lowest resistacnes in all system, but i can't fine non resistances spark plug here.. :P How can i make VexUs work?
Hi greg,
I think you have answered all of Bill Cozzalino's questions from his latest video of the "Nexus circuit" with your "VexUs"
circuit......And you managed to keep it simple, i love it !!!
What do you think about replacing the FWB with Xboxhackers voltage doubler...being that we can now tune the spark to our liking....????
Aloha,
HV
Hi zzzz,
wow ... many questions ... I am just using basic knowledge here. I am no expert.
22uf @ 450 ohms = 0.0099 sec. too long,: 22uf @ 45 ohms = .00099 sec.= about 0.001 or 1ms.
also remember your power requirement: you will charge about 150 VDC so 150V / 45oh = 3.3A
but if 1 RC then ave. = 3.3 / 2 = 1.7A X 150 = 250 Watts (power resistor rating). I guess this is why people are using light bulbs.
...
@everyone, you must all look at this video presentation and reflect as the message is real. We need to work together as we are doing here to fix what we have let them do to US.Excellent video Luc, I would go further,ask yourself a question-----What do I do in the economy---what is my contribution? It turns out 99% of us do nothing but support each other, that is our only purpose. like the 10 support people for each soldier in the army, the support people don't fight they are a government make work program---and so are we. Who makes the most positive contribution to society? Not corperations, not governments, not support people------Inventors ;D Peoples living conditions have improved through technology, over 80% of the most beneficial technologies that have been patented were invented by individuals----not corperations nor government. We are the future right here in this forum, we can create the future we want-----a better one.
Video Link: http://www.storyofstuff.com/index.html
Thanks Greg
Now i understand
yesterday I went to three electronic shops , all i got is not satify again, >:(
I got 350mA 12000V diode only 5 ea ( VexUs circuit is 15000V)
(I use the same Bosch blue coil as your)
Cap 470uf but 250V biggest that they have only 2 ea
Cap 22uf 400 V 5 ea thats OK
i add 10uf 450 V
R 220 ohm 20 w 8 ea
but they don't have isolation transformer, even 220 to 110 V they don't
they have only theroide 220-45V minimum ratio that they have... :P
I live in Thailand but not in capital...
maybe this is the time to visit Bangkok...
12000V BreakDown. is enough for this coil ???
will have any problem if i don't use isolation trans. ???
@LucExcellent video Luc, I would go further,ask yourself a question-----What do I do in the economy---what is my contribution? It turns out 99% of us do nothing but support each other, that is our only purpose. like the 10 support people for each soldier in the army, the support people don't fight they are a government make work program---and so are we. Who makes the most positive contribution to society? Not corperations, not governments, not support people------Inventors ;D Peoples living conditions have improved through technology, over 80% of the most beneficial technologies that have been patented were invented by individuals----not corperations nor government. We are the future right here in this forum, we can create the future we want-----a better one.
Regards and keep up the good work ;)
AC
Here is a video of Greg's VexUs circuit firing plasma via my V-8 HEI distributor. The max speed on the drill I used spun the distributor at 2,300 rpm. No misfires, even if you see that the camera may not have captured them all. A VERY crisp sound from the plasma at 2,300 rpm, I was completely ASTOUNDED!! Here you go, more to come.....................
HEI V-8 VexUs plasma---2,300 rpm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPaO94l8ugY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPaO94l8ugY)
Enjoy, I sure did while I was filming it!
Does the plazma shutdown long enough at high rpm to avoid misfire?
Hi all,
VexUs high speed - multi spark plug bench test
video at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgY81rKw3Hw
Peace,
Greg
Hi folks!
I´ve been following this topic with great interest. I got a question, from my ignorant standing point (excuse please if it was already answered before, or obvious):
As I´ve seen in the firestorm video (on youtube) the spark that generates is very similar to the one the Nexus and Vexus systems do...
I've been also peeking at the pulstar pulse plugs, and their internal configuration, and it seems that inside they got some kind of solution to increase the discharge and manage the high voltage discharge you people are managing with a converter / diodes / etc.
Now, if it is the same kind of spark (it looks like the same, visually) ... these plugs are not that expensive, and you don't have to build up a whole system. So I was wondering if it is really the same or not ? or what are the gains of walking this other path ? I am asking because I am about to do my own tryings, but my finish line is the practical issue of reducing gas usage in my car.
Also why are you all trying with big motors ? why not test all this with a generator / lawnmover motor ? and (I know it is another topic) ... wouldn´t it be easier and less expensive to try to get water exploding, on a small motor ?
Regards,
Enrique.
I am not sure if this has been done but back in the day they use to recycle spark plugs. You would ultrasonic or manually clean the plug and file and regap the electrodes. Then to make sure they were ok you would screw them into a little box with a viewing window and pressurize the box to 30 or 40psi. Then view the spark through the window. Point being compression of the air changes the spark gap characteristics considerably.
Hi all,Why not tap power off the 117 dc volts in the inverter and eliminate the full wave rectifier? Or will that cause problems?
I've attached the hybrid circuit diagram. It should be noted that the choice of R1 and C1 are critical to the frequency response the circuit will have. For instance if C1 is 22uf and R1 is 55ohms then one RC time constant is 0.0012 seconds. 5X RC gives you a quick enough charge for a 4-cylinder engine turning 5000 RPM. The discharge time is dependent upon the circuit resistance ... it should be kept as low as possible. This will determine how completely the CDI Cap discharges and how much it floats above 0-VDC like shown on the VexUs scope trace in the last video.
In the video I used a 0 - 3500 ohm pot just for test and development since I didn't know what to expect. This is all new to me too.
The mechanism of the circuit is no mystery. Most welding equipment especially Tig welding equipment have a feature called 'high frequency start'. In this type of welding you use a torch that's not really a torch but an electrode holder with a sharp tungsten tip shrouded in inert gas. A high current arc is generated between this tungsten tip and the workpiece and that's the heat source. To start the welding arc you normally would need to touch the tungsten tip to the workpiece. But with 'high freq' a high frequency (low current) spark 'dances' around in the gap between the tungsten and the workpiece ionizing the space and making it very conductive. The high current welding arc now starts all by itself. This is likely what is happening in our circuits. The regular ignition spark is ionizing the spark plug gap allowing the higher current stored in the CDI Cap to flow.
Peace,
Greg
(http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/vexus.jpg)
Why not tap power off the 117 dc volts in the inverter and eliminate the full wave rectifier? Or will that cause problems?
Hi Greg,
I plan to build your "VexUs" circuit, but i will use a voltage doubler in place of the FWB....
In your opinion should i increase the value of R1 or would it be sufficient for testing...
Thanks.
HV
If you put a bifilar coil on the HV coil you've got a VIC with minimal amps,, whci hdrives Stans injectors. (I think)
Except, to efficently fracture water into Hydrogen and Oxygen you need to supply pulsed DC to the fuel cell.Rectified AC is like pulsed DC, you get the unipolar waveform. The bifilar makes of this 2 unipolar waves, positive and negative of equal magnitude.
If you can figure out a circuit to pulse this HV let me know.
I'd love to test it with my fuel cell.
DonL
Meyer produced his plazma by injecting an ion stream along with his water.Which Meyer invention utilizes plasma?
The water was changed into hho gas as it was partially electrolysized passing through the nozzle which was set up as a capacitor in a series resonant circuit. Plazma has an extremely energetic flow of electrons around a grouping of ionized atoms. Instead of electron energy expressing itself in a field measured in protonic diameters it now is travelling around billions of neuclei grouped or held together by their magnetic dipole moments. You got yourself plazma. The electron kinetic energy is now emitting highly energetic displacement waves that are absorbed by the hho gas nitrogen and oxygen mixture. This energy input causes the water to explode.
I can see a high velocity stream of ionized gas creating a plazma in his reaction chamber though.Does such a video from Meyer exist? Please show me.
Absolutely FANTASTIC Greg ;D
Was that only water you were spraying on the plugs? since this is the first time I see the spark so red on video.
Top notch work man.
Thanks for sharing
Luc
Hi Luc,Try ionized
Distilled water only.
Greg
Excellent!!!! Excellent!!!! Excellent!!!! Greg!!!!
I loved the time when you sprayed water on the plug!!!! Extremely awesome!!!!
I am going to buy the circuit elements and build it now!!!!
Is the circuit same as below?? or am I wrong????
Well done again!!
And thanks for sharing!!
Excellent!!!! Excellent!!!! Excellent!!!! Greg!!!!
I loved the time when you sprayed water on the plug!!!! Extremely awesome!!!!
I am going to buy the circuit elements and build it now!!!!
Is the circuit same as below?? or am I wrong????
Well done again!!
And thanks for sharing!!
Hi,
Yes it is that exact circuit. The combination of R1 and C1is important ... so are the voltage and power ratings for these things. A starting point might be 47uF for C1 and 100Ohms - 75Watt for R1. Things change when you 'up' the voltage, etc. You'll have to change R1 and / or C1.
The plugs must be non resistor. If you run diode wires directly to plugs than old plug wires fine, else use solid plug wires (racing wires).
Thanks for your interest,
Greg
My latest VexUs V-8 video, 5,800 rpm this time!!! :o
Keep in mind that this test is performed discharging ONLY a single, 1.06uF capacitor with no "storage" cap. So the spark is a bit weaker than it will be when my ordered parts arrive. I will change to a 4.7uF as soon as they arrive via UPS, should be tomorrow. I am using a voltage doubler circuit with a pair of 120uF 330V flash caps, output is 326VDC. This test was performed at 5,800 RPM, decided to go ahead and step it up. I figure it will either GO or BLOW! ;D There should be NO reason you would need to tach up a Chevy 350 to 5,800 rpm, but IF I do decide to, at least I'll know I'm still stable. As I mentioned in another post, none of the components were even warm to the touch. 8) This is so much fun, it can hardly be considered work! Anyway, here's the U-tube link.
VexUs plasma--V-8 HEI--5,800 RPM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAP5n5oeVPY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAP5n5oeVPY)
I forgot to spray water mist on it, I'll do that next time..............Mike
Hey HV,
'96 Suburban, 5.7 Lt. fuel injected OBD2. There will need to be some ECM fooling required, no doubt. I'm game, at this point, for almost anything. I WILL do whatever it takes to win!! If the computer presents too much of a problem, I will yank it and kick it to the curb! I always liked a good carb better anyway, no way it will beat me, not this far in the game. ;D Later................................Mike
Emmm....
Maybe there will be some differences. Here in Greece, we use 230v AC. So I may not be able to find a 110v AC inverter.
So what rates of the capacitors and the resistor should I use?? For sure they must be over 500v but what capacity??
For sure plugs will be non resistor, and the diodes will be fed directly on the top of the spark plug. (too low budget to buy racing wires....don't forget I am still a high school student)
Thanks for the support,
Zissis
Thanks Luc,
More to come, just waiting on parts. Later...............................................Mike
Hi Zissis (cool name)
Don't worry. This stuff works better on higher voltage anyway. Just cut down on C1 and increase R1 accordingly for an even greater effect at your higher 230VAC voltage!
Try C1 = 10uF to 22uF and R1 = 200 to 600 ohms, and around 80 - 120 Watts (maybe a light bulb). You'll have to test for heat at run time.
For cost consideration, try diode strings instead of HV diodes (microwave replacement diodes are somewhat costly).
Peace,
Greg
Hi Greg!! (I like your name too)
Friends call me Zis..!! ;)
Ok, I will order these parts. What about diodes?? 1N5408 are ok??
Test vehicle will be a Volvo 440 fuel injected (my father's). No plans for water, just to decrease fuel consumption. The plasma ignition water car project, will be an other car, like a small suzuki, or a cheap old mazda. For sure costed not over 600-700 dollars. I am going to buy it this summer since school will be over for me!!
Thanks a lot for all of your help!!
Zissis!
Please somebody should tell the stevie1001 on that forum that he needs to catch up a little bit..
Hi Zis,
5408 diodes come in a variety of flavors. I have always used the UF series (ultra-fast) but for strings 1N5408 is what everyone is using ... I think ... 1000V x 3A ... right?
Also caution, I have not tried VexUs on electronic system yet, I intend to, also on coil packs. Forum member 'jstadwater' on Energetic Forum (topic: Water Sparkplug) has been testing for a V-8 and has diagnostic equipment and indicated there are NO damaging EMF's produced by the VexUs circuit. You should also sign on there and see his work. He's done a great job with my circuit ... I'm very excited!
Greg
Hi Greg
As you said, as everyone uses it, 5408 might be ok. If not, they are cheap, so nothing to matter for if they blow up....!!
Anyway I asked for prices:
100x 1N5408 diodes
A couple of 10μF capacitors, two 22μF, two 47μF and two 470μF
For the resistor, I plan to use a light bulb, or a wall potentiometer. They are at least 60W
An 150VA 1:1 isolation transformer
A Full Wave Bridge Rectifier 400V 10A
12VDC to 220VAC inverter, quite cheap found here --> "Ebay's Link" (http://"http://cgi.ebay.com/500W-Car-12V-DC-to-220V-AC-Power-Inverter-Adapter-USB_W0QQitemZ290267096352QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290267096352&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A15%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14") (cost+shipping to Greece = 36$)
These are the basics for now. The others are easy to find.
Btw I've seen 'jstadwater' 's replication, and really liked it. Very stable circuit, and very nice videos, too!!!!
More updates to come....
Zissis
"Here is my blog" (http://"http://zissisprojects.wordpress.com")
Ok.... i had a mistake in the links....
Inverter from ebay.: Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/500W-Car-12V-DC-to-220V-AC-Power-Inverter-Adapter-USB_W0QQitemZ290267096352QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290267096352&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A15%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)
My blog.: Link (http://zissisprojects.wordpress.com) (Nothing special. Just what I have constructed so far.)
@Greg:
What fuse should I put?? And where?? Before or after the inverter?? What Amperage??
Thanks
Zissis!!
Hi Zis,
I would protect #1) vehicle wiring so one fuse into the inverter 4A to 6A and #2) transformer from overload so 2A out of transformer. Safe to start with. Fuses are cheap. The inverter may come with fuse and/or recommendation(s).
Thanks for links,
Greg
Hi Greg
As you said, as everyone uses it, 5408 might be ok. If not, they are cheap, so nothing to matter for if they blow up....!!
Anyway I asked for prices:
100x 1N5408 diodes
A couple of 10μF capacitors, two 22μF, two 47μF and two 470μF
For the resistor, I plan to use a light bulb, or a wall potentiometer. They are at least 60W
An 150VA 1:1 isolation transformer
A Full Wave Bridge Rectifier 400V 10A
12VDC to 220VAC inverter, quite cheap found here --> "Ebay's Link" (http://"http://cgi.ebay.com/500W-Car-12V-DC-to-220V-AC-Power-Inverter-Adapter-USB_W0QQitemZ290267096352QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290267096352&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A15%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14") (cost+shipping to Greece = 36$)
These are the basics for now. The others are easy to find.
Btw I've seen 'jstadwater' 's replication, and really liked it. Very stable circuit, and very nice videos, too!!!!
More updates to come....
Zissis
"Here is my blog" (http://"http://zissisprojects.wordpress.com")
Hi Zis,
You need to do a little research on the isolation transformer. The one I have specifically says 115VAC INPUT and 115VAC OUTPUT, 150 VA. So you might try and determine if that will work at 230VAC. Usually they are matched for 60Hz, VAC and VA.
Greg
I Just want to inject a question, to see if any good ideas are out there.
Plasma Arc, wonderful ckt, replicated and adjusted. This was all easy.
NOW. The modern ignition coil actually has no ground connection to the HV side of
the coil. The Two wires from that side of the transformer are both connected to plugs.
The basic concept has been around a while, and the problem that arises is: One plug
will be positive and the other negative. Distributer Ign is fine. If no Dist., I assume a
dual, half wave rect. on the inverter is the only way to go. (OR 2 inverters, but naaaa.)
This means that the diodes are reversed on the off set of plugs and I am wondering if
anyone else has started testing this?
By the way, running a basic B&S ICE isn't as hard as it seems. I'm about to try without
the Cell, just opening the main jet and feeding water. If it works, I'll start posting the
garbage ckts I'm using, but as I want to get to modern engines, this coil polarity has me
wondering. (If it's just a case of Plug deposits, then I'll mig a ball of stainless onto the
center electrode, but I've already welded a crosswire, so I wanted to use the premade plugs
before making them different.
Any Suggestions? Any testing done? I'll only post my positive results so as to not clog
this thread up with my junk. (I'm on sabatical from TPU work, and already have a modified
B&S for Hydroxy operation. Now trying to run it on Water. If that works, this coil problem
will be the next hurdle for more modern engines without distributers. I could eliminate the
problem by grounding One plug wire and doubling the number of coils, but that is the hard
way out and I would like to avoid it if possible. The standard drive CKt probably couldn't drive
two coils, etc. Want to stay as stock as possible.)
Hi Zis,
Greg is right! a 115v transformer will not work efficiently if you put 220v in, the coil does not have enough winding and will act much like a short. I know because I tried it. I have a 220v inverter and I won two 115v/115v 1:1 isolation transformer on eBay for $1. each. However it works if I use both and wire each side in series. It also give a 115v center tap.
It maybe be cheaper to find two identical 220v MOT from a repair shop or city dump. You lightly cut the welds on each sides to open them up and take out the inductors and combine both primaries in one and re weld.
Luc
Hi all
Anyone looking for cheap 1N5408 in UK, here is a seller on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400000828857&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123
I though it was a listing mistake, I asked the seller and he confirmed that the price is for 100s.
Too bad I already bought lots from another seller :-[
Thanks for sharing this link Chris3. I may have to re-order mine since it's been 25 days I ordered some from China and are not in yet :(.
Good find ;D and thanks for sharing.
Luc
LOL yeah, I just paid mine 4 times more.
By the way hows the half geet project comming along? Im gonna build something similiar, hopefully very soon, I need to get the plasma working perfectly first ;D
There seems to be nothing else that is particularily cheap from that supplier. He also lists the same part as a transistor, for a higher price and with a quantity of 25. Beware...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1N5408-Transistor-x-25-pcs_W0QQitemZ160153629542QQihZ006QQcategoryZ4663QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1N5408-Transistor-x-25-pcs_W0QQitemZ160153629542QQihZ006QQcategoryZ4663QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262)
I think the flyback transformers in old computer monitors and television sets have hv diodes in em.
Hi Zis,
Greg is right! a 115v transformer will not work efficiently if you put 220v in, the coil does not have enough winding and will act much like a short. I know because I tried it. I have a 220v inverter and I won two 115v/115v 1:1 isolation transformer on eBay for $1. each. However it works if I use both and wire each side in series. It also give a 115v center tap.
It maybe be cheaper to find two identical 220v MOT from a repair shop or city dump. You lightly cut the welds on each sides to open them up and take out the inductors and combine both primaries in one and re weld.
Luc
Connect two 115V isolation transformers in this way.
Hi Loner,
We have not tested much on modern engines, it is just starting and Greg's new simple VexUs circuit has just been released. So we need testers. Please replicate and post your findings
@everyone: please note that we are not able to run a combustion engine on water alone is using these circuits. However we are noticing RPM gain and easy cold start by using the plasma spark and we could start testing with emulsifying small amounts of water in the carburetor via a cold fog humidifier or ultrasonic pound misters or just dripping water in a tube warped around the exhaust to crate water vapor and lead it in the intake.
Thanks
Luc
Why are you trying to use an isolation transformer? If an inverter is being used to power the circuit, you will be VERY hard pressed to find one that uses the Auto-transformer function, which is the only way the inverter wouldn't already be FULLY isolated. Thatdoesn't mean that the manufacturer of the unit didn't specifically make internal connections to include surge suppression, etc. Simply removing as much of the inverter circuitry as needed toclean-up the output suppression, and any connection from source to output, will provide plenty
of isolation.
Thanks in advance.
Art.
Hi Luc,
I agree. It's time to start tesing various fuels and combinations of emulsions and even GEET. I'm ready!
Peace,
Greg
Connect two 115V isolation transformers in this way.
Anyone with transformer knowledge would like to help out here please step in.
This stuff is beyond my ::)
Thanks
Luc
@Loner,
Thank you for the drawing and explanation.
>>Why are you trying to use an isolation transformer?
I think the main reason people use an isolation transformer is because the small inverters
has a mosfet output stage to make a "simulated" AC voltage. This output stage is prone
to blow up if the inverter gets the initial coil pulse on the input. Since there is a diode string
(or one HV or several HV diodes) connected for minus voltage to the high side of the ignition coil
then there is a path for the positive high voltage pulse to travel back to the inverter and fry the
mosfet transistors. A isolation transformer will prevent that from happening.
Groundloop.
Hello all,
Just completed another bench test run for 30 minutes continuous at 2,250 rpm. Closely related to highway speed at cruising. Ambient temperature today = 92.5 degrees F. Temperatures on ALL components pretty much peaked within the first ten minutes of operation and never went a single degree higher throughout the remainder of the test.
Here's the setup: discharge caps = three oil filled MW caps wired parallel, total capacitence = 2.5uF, lowest voltage rating of the 3 is 1,750VAC
MAX recorded temp = 96.5 deg. F. at top of caps
Voltage TRIPLER using three electrolytic caps 120uF 450V and three 1N5408 diodes, 1000V rated at 3A, voltage output = 460VDC
MAX recorded temp = 98 deg. F. at top of 1st cap. Cascading temp drop to 3rd cap in circuit at 93 deg. F.
Diodes remained at same temp throughout test.
Storage cap between tripler circuit and resistor is 15uF 450V
MAX recorded temp = 98 deg. F. at top of cap
Resistor used is 100 watt bulb = 10.4 ohms
Well lit, continuous brightness fluctuations throughout test.
HV blocking diodes at each spark plug are NTE517, 15KV rated at 550mA. Used two diodes parallel at each plug. Spec sheet says operating range is up to 302 deg. F.
MAX recorded temp = 120 deg. F. at cathode end, anode end varied from 5 to 10 degrees cooler than cathode end
Spark plugs are "COPPER MARINE" by Champion 827 M L76V
MAX recorded temp = 99 deg. F.
And when I sprayed water mist on the plugs..........OH MY GOD!!! The intensity went to "WAY COOL"
This video demonstrates the exact components used for the recorded stats I posted above from running the circuit at about 2,250 to 2,300 rpm for 30 continuous minutes.
My only regret is not having a good enough camera to capture the effect as it is in person.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxMOUQTTM6w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxMOUQTTM6w)
Your circuit has been updated and is at my forum.
Br, Hydrocars.
@gotoluc
There is so much mass in the choke coil that the voltage says screw it I'm gonna flow along the surface like wave energy flows along the surface of the ocean. The voltage still gets to the sparkgap but it comes in the form of a wave instead of slow flow. In electrical terms the transient current is suppressed by the choke. Since the discharge technique employed results in mostly transient current we get voltage to the load not requiring current flow through the conductor. Electromagnetic waves travel at the speed of light whereas electrical currents flow millimeters per second. I like speed.
Meyer used chokes on both sides of his hho gas generator. This was to make sure that the wave fronts appear across the spark gap/capacitor/fuelcell/etc. to maximize charge seperation.
Hello all,
Just completed another bench test run for 30 minutes continuous at 2,250 rpm. Closely related to highway speed at cruising. Ambient temperature today = 92.5 degrees F. Temperatures on ALL components pretty much peaked within the first ten minutes of operation and never went a single degree higher throughout the remainder of the test.
Here's the setup: discharge caps = three oil filled MW caps wired parallel, total capacitence = 2.5uF, lowest voltage rating of the 3 is 1,750VAC
MAX recorded temp = 96.5 deg. F. at top of caps
Voltage TRIPLER using three electrolytic caps 120uF 450V and three 1N5408 diodes, 1000V rated at 3A, voltage output = 460VDC
MAX recorded temp = 98 deg. F. at top of 1st cap. Cascading temp drop to 3rd cap in circuit at 93 deg. F.
Diodes remained at same temp throughout test.
Storage cap between tripler circuit and resistor is 15uF 450V
MAX recorded temp = 98 deg. F. at top of cap
Resistor used is 100 watt bulb = 10.4 ohms
Well lit, continuous brightness fluctuations throughout test.
HV blocking diodes at each spark plug are NTE517, 15KV rated at 550mA. Used two diodes parallel at each plug. Spec sheet says operating range is up to 302 deg. F.
MAX recorded temp = 120 deg. F. at cathode end, anode end varied from 5 to 10 degrees cooler than cathode end
Spark plugs are "COPPER MARINE" by Champion 827 M L76V
MAX recorded temp = 99 deg. F.
And when I sprayed water mist on the plugs..........OH MY GOD!!! The intensity went to "WAY COOL"
This video demonstrates the exact components used for the recorded stats I posted above from running the circuit at about 2,250 to 2,300 rpm for 30 continuous minutes.
My only regret is not having a good enough camera to capture the effect as it is in person.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxMOUQTTM6w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxMOUQTTM6w)
JSTADWATER,
GREAT V8 PLASMA SPARK WITH WATER SPRAY.
PLEASE TRY A COMPARISON WITH SALT WATER SPRAY -- OTHERS HAVE SUGGESTED YOU GET A SLIGHT ELECTROLYSIS ACTION ALONG WITH THE WATER EXPLOSION.
NOBODY RESPONDED ON THE MOT TO MOT ISOLATION TRANSFORMER OH WELL TOO BAD.
MIKE
@Greg and anyone interested,
I've been thinking about the isolation transformer cost, availability and all this. It seems to be the only down side at this time for replicators.
I have an idea ;D... MOT's are easily available and can be next to free. When you think of it ::)... it is an isolation transformer!... just at a much higher voltage on the secondary side. I propose we move your VexUs circuit to a new level... HV that is. Use a MOT as isolation transformer and feed the HV directly to the circuit. Obviously you would have to drop you Capacitance value by much and make your FWBR with HV diodes but I think that would be the only thing you may need to change. Also many have been noticing the benefit of Higher Voltages.
So what do you think of this idea? Are you willing to test it? if so I would suggest using a Variac to start at a low voltage and slowly raise it if it works. Maybe the .7uf to 1uf microwave oven capacitors could end up being the correct size for the circuit?
Just an idea. Let me know what you think of this.
Luc
Hi Greg,
Thanks for the circuit update.
I have a comment not on the R1 placement but the CDI cap ground. My thinking is that when the CDI discharges, the discharge current path is from the plug center electrode, thru the NTE517 diode, thru the CDI cap, thru the junction of (the storage cap +, CDI cap + and if present top end of wire), thru wire, thru wire ground connection to vehicle frame/engine block, thru engine block, thru the plug threaded body thru the plasma spark. Whew. ( Not sure of direction of electron/curent flow convention, I was just tracing the path.)
So, those making this should make sure there is a good current path from the CDI + back to the plug threaded body. That is, all ground connections should be good and solid.
@Gmeast,
Did you see the link for the isolation transformers? 120v in 120v out 120w for $16.00 , Unfortunetly they only ship in the US.
Let me know what you think...
Thanks,
HV
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=120132004551
I had a conversation with an electronics man, and he told me how to make an isolation transformer.
Hi everyone,
The VexUs circuit somehow generates a huge spike that fools the inverter electronics into thinking there is a short circuit. I have been using a cheap 400 Watt inverter with no real internal protection.
I have exceeded my all-time record and can proudly say I have fried three inverter in one day ... beat that ... $40.00 a pop!
I'm trying to get a scope picture of the phenomenon while running on wall AC. Don't ruin any inverters you guys before I find a fix. It is a basic issue. Like has been said, there is so little current draw in this circuit that it can only be how the HV DC is being introduced. It may be an RF level phenomenon which can be shielded. There is some indication that a spike is frying the CMOS circuitry.
I'm also going to build a "dumb" 3055 transistor oscillator for the HV pump ... probably use voltage doubler ladders to get the voltage.
We'll get it. Input welcome. Peace,
Greg
Spikes generated by the plasma circuit getting to the inverters output will destroy it.
A MOV or a bidirectional TVS/transzorb/transil should protect it from nasty spikes. I would also put a unidirectional TVS across the rectified output.
Hi Chris31,
Can you please post a circuit mod of this if you have the graphics?
Thanks,
Greg
Hi everyone,
The VexUs circuit somehow generates a huge spike that fools the inverter electronics into thinking there is a short circuit. I have been using a cheap 400 Watt inverter with no real internal protection.
I have exceeded my all-time record and can proudly say I have fried three inverter in one day ... beat that ... $40.00 a pop!
I'm trying to get a scope picture of the phenomenon while running on wall AC. Don't ruin any inverters you guys before I find a fix. It is a basic issue. Like has been said, there is so little current draw in this circuit that it can only be how the HV DC is being introduced. It may be an RF level phenomenon which can be shielded. There is some indication that a spike is frying the CMOS circuitry.
I'm also going to build a "dumb" 3055 transistor oscillator for the HV pump ... probably use voltage doubler ladders to get the voltage.
We'll get it. Input welcome. Peace,
Greg
Hi Greg,
Where you using an isolation transformer when the inverters fried?
Thanks,
HV
DEAR LUC,
FOR A GUY WHO DISLIKES ELECTRONICS YOU SEEM TO BE SWIMMING IN IT MY BROTHER! ;)
HAPPY SUNDAY ALL...
Thane
What stops the inverter produced voltage from trying to discharge the battery through the ignition coil output winding?
How bout some neons across the bridge rectifier for wave reflection absorption.
Hi everyone,
The VexUs circuit somehow generates a huge spike that fools the inverter electronics into thinking there is a short circuit. I have been using a cheap 400 Watt inverter with no real internal protection.
I have exceeded my all-time record and can proudly say I have fried three inverter in one day ... beat that ... $40.00 a pop!
I'm trying to get a scope picture of the phenomenon while running on wall AC. Don't ruin any inverters you guys before I find a fix. It is a basic issue. Like has been said, there is so little current draw in this circuit that it can only be how the HV DC is being introduced. It may be an RF level phenomenon which can be shielded. There is some indication that a spike is frying the CMOS circuitry.
I'm also going to build a "dumb" 3055 transistor oscillator for the HV pump ... probably use voltage doubler ladders to get the voltage.
We'll get it. Input welcome. Peace,
Greg
Hi Greg!!
How?? A few days ago you showed us with your videos on the bug and on the bench that it is working very fine!!
Also what is a spike, and how can it be created since we have an isolation transformer????
Thanks,
Zissis
Here are the application notes >
http://www.vishay.com/diodes/protection-tvs-esd/trans-zorb/related
This is what you really need >>>
http://www.vishay.com/docs/88439/typtvsap.pdf
I would go for TVS rather than MOVs. I blew a massive MOV but TVS survived.
Check out figure 2, thats what you need. I would also put a uni-TVS across the rectified output like the one shown on figure 1.
Inserting a surge protected power strip in between the inverter and the plasma circuit might do the trick.
Hi Zis,
A "spike" can be either a high amplitude power or RF transients. A severe enough RF transient can destroy electronics like power FETS and CMOS components ... a part of modern modified wave inverters.
Ok....!! I got that..!!
As you recall, the circuit was sitting outside the Bug and yes I did use the inverter that was already installed in the Bug I used on the straight-up plasma CDI circuit. The only difference - I used single HV diodes instead of multiple, parallel diodes. Also, the circuit elements were spread out and not neatly arranged and hooked up on a power strip. These factors may play a part.
So, from what I understand, using the parts and the circuit as spreaded out as in your video, and using single HV diodes, it will work fine??
If then why don't we magnetically isolate everything, and put them all together????
I do know the only circuit that has never failed to perform is my solid state version of the original Gotoluc / Lindemann / Aaron water spark plug circuit ... from way, way, back.
Do you mean the one using the relays????
But I'm dedicated to understanding the recent phenomenon completely and fixing it because the circuit is so reliable, simple, scalable, cheap, etc.
Awaiting any update!!
Peace,
Greg
Just ordered the TVS diodes, 2nd day delivery. I hope this works for us, now the bad part...........waiting for them to arrive so I can install into the circuit! Thanks guys, for such a quick response with a possible solution for our inverter issues. You guys are the best!!
Thanks............................... Mike
I realize I'm not up-to-speed on far too much of what has been happening, but I am wondering
if anyone takes into account the simple concept that the (If standard) Charge of the Coil produces
Positive HV, which also contains the "other" type of energy. The "Collapse" of the Charge is
the one producing the negative HV being used to form the spark. There are concepts in this
situation that I have heard no-one mention, and I'm going to re-read the entire thread just so
I don't look the fool for a second time in a short period. (I'll apologise after I read...)
As is well known, the "Tesla" use of a spark gap was to limit the Electron flow and make use of
the "Potential" flow. I'm not going to mention the actual types of energy involved, as there are
too many arguements on that subject already. If the "Plasma" part of the reaction is what is
truly desired, then True electron flow is NOT desired. This would change how the "Capacitor"
would be used in this situation and require a different type of cap for best function. Also, the
best way to store a charge for output would be a coil, as the collapse would be a better form
of energy discharge..... (Sure gives me different results, but I need two chokes to ensure
continous charge avail when sparking, for better charge recovery. Yes, I'm playing too much.)
Do I sound off the wall, or has anyone else gone this way with their testing???
(Little note. My record is a 1.5 inch long plasma arc. Jacobs ladder setup for testing. The
properties of the plasma arc get very interesting as the gap increases. VERY Freq. dependant.)
Hi Luc,
Can you give us more info on your idea., how will you pulse the circuit?
Thanks,
HV
Luc,
If you go back in the thread then you will see that my small power inverter is doing exactly that.
Pulsing a transformer to get the voltage we want. Also my newest circuit will do the same.
Attached is a power oscillator circuit that can be used to pulse any transformer.
Groundloop.
Luc
Sorry about last long post. I'll keep it short. Have Motor to alt setup. Don't have MOT.
(I assume that is acronym for Microwave Oven Transformer?) Being an Old-School
electronics hacker, as it were, I mainly use homemade Electronics for all my testing.
(Test equipment is NOT all homemade, just the Inverters, Osc's, coils, etc.)
I will rip into my garage Microwave, that I never use, and get one, but I'm afraid that
will take longer than you might imagine. Give me a week or maybe two to get that
far. Just finished my Homemade HV cap (at least 3KV), so I need to go there anyway.
Here I was, thinking of building a big Tesla generator, and suddenly, this sounds more fun.
If it weren't for other unmentioned problems, I would be a lot faster, but I'm sure you know
what I mean. I'm still stuck on the "Type" of charge I'm trying to develop for the Plasma
arc. I'm a lot further behind you guys than it may sound, so for now, ignore me, and I'll post
any results I get ASAP. (No more making myself look the complete "Armchair" builder. That
and I need to MIG up the frame for my newest genset. Need electric start, non geared, and
though I finally have the parts, I just need the time. Seems there's never enough of that....)
YES, YES, YES..........I got in the 1.5KE150CA diodes in a little bit ago. Hooked up one between the inverter and isolation transformer, and then one between the transformer and tripler circuit. Have not added the one for the battery to inverter yet, but will shortly, just as a safegaurd. I could never run the circuit on just the inverter for more than about a minute at around 2,200 rpm, less than 30 seconds at 4,300 rpm, and the inverter started squeeling loudly in protest.
I just finished running continuous for 20 minutes at 4,300 rpm, powered by inverter ONLY. The 1.5KE150CA diodes did not even get WARM at all........much less hot. But, most importantly, THE INVERTER WAS HAPPY THE ENTIRE TIME!!!!!!!!
NOW.......if I can run a v-8 distributor at that rpm on inverter power, there should be NO problem whatsoever with a 4 cylinder install.
I will now move forward with installing the circuit into this 350 Suburban, HOLD ON TIGHT BOYS, IT'S GETTING CRAZY AROUND HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Later.......................................Mike
I ordered both diode types from Allied Electronics 1-800-433-5700. They have both the 1.5KE15A and the 1.5KE150CA in stock. Got them in two days.
Yall stay tuned..........................more to come..............................Mike
Anybody try to get a small engine on water yet?
Anybody try to get a small engine on water yet?
So.... That's HOT*** ;D
We knew that it's hot, since some plugs melted down!!
Very interesting greg!! Bravo!!
Try putting wet paper, the same way, and see what happens!!
Thanks,
Zissis
@lapperll
The only issue that I could see is that from a dead stop, if I attempt a fast acceleration (half throttle or more) the engine will bog like it is missing. Just like if the spark plug wires were bad.
My guess is that kick wires. You have turned a good set of spark plug wires into bad ones.
Maybe before you add more diodes you could check of your kick wires to see that they aren't the cause of that. Maybe run the car only with the kick wires open.
I'm no expert but I think when you "stick the pedal to the metal", the pressure inside the cylinder increases and then you need more HI voltage to jump that spark gap, and you are loosing that through the kick wires isolation to the ground were the wires are closer.
just trying to help here...
rfsimoes
Many Youtube video's are being deleted as we speak...."Suppression".....
Hi, greg,
just wondering, I saw plasma spark seem to be longer than normal spark, can we calculate sparking period of plasma, ???
because all of you gain power from this circuit with gas, where the power came from ???
Is it possible that exhaust re-combust,( I mean hot steam that produces from fuel+O2 is explode after main combustion finish).
If it be, may be we can set proper ignition timing, plasma spark period, and combustion chamber working condition in real enging to reduces fuel as much as we can,
just an idea... :-[
update, my bug have problem with starter motor, now i wiring circuit to my 38 years old bmw2000. ;)
Hi Greg,
No inverter !!!............ I like that, less is more...
What kind of transistors are you testing with ?
Thanks for sharing..
Aloha,
HV
Hey Greg!!
Beautiful work!!
Can you post a schematic of the home-made inverter - oscillator circuit??
Are you using your VexUs circuit for the plasma, or Gotoluc's?? Please make it clear!!
Thanks a lot Greg!!
Awesome work again!!
Zissis
Great work Revizal,
you could do some torque/poweroutput measurements later on to see how more efficient it runs.
Here is the video:Revizal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weSbr-lk7xg
I hope it gives some additional progress here.
Best regard,
Revizal.
Revizal
Excellent video!!
Which plasma version/circuit did you use in the video?
Passion
Hi Greg,
Outstanding work, what votage caps are you using in the doubler ?
Thanks,
HV
Unfortunately, I do not have the tools..sorry.I'm sure you can create a flywheel and couple it to your motor ;)
It's just me again,
I did it this time at 125 psi, 2,300 rpm. The higher the pressure, the bigger the plasma gets!!! Keep in mind, I am ONLY discharging 2.5uF in these vids! The reason, I think, that I had to make a new combustion chamber plate is because my painter was using his DRY air system at the time I wanted to make another video. I used regular shop air and it has moisture in it. The plasma built up size as I increased chamber pressure........And BANG! I'm betting the large plasma ball ignited the amount of water vapor coming through the air hose, the pressure had no where to go, so it blew out the see-through plate. It was quite a boom, I nearly wet my pants! It seems to me that using an ACTUAL combustion chamber is the only way to get an accurate test result. The shape of the head's combustion chamber is a series of angles and curves........it is that way for a reason! The link is below for the 125 psi test.
VexUs Plasma Vs. 125 psi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwYzEZ5gEo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwYzEZ5gEo)
2) transformers don't like square waves ... they like sine waves.
Here's a pic of the board and a pic of the waveform. It is about 300VAC P-P @ 70 hz. and 247 VDC at the storage Cap.
It's just me again,
I did it this time at 125 psi, 2,300 rpm. The higher the pressure, the bigger the plasma gets!!! Keep in mind, I am ONLY discharging 2.5uF in these vids! The reason, I think, that I had to make a new combustion chamber plate is because my painter was using his DRY air system at the time I wanted to make another video. I used regular shop air and it has moisture in it. The plasma built up size as I increased chamber pressure........And BANG! I'm betting the large plasma ball ignited the amount of water vapor coming through the air hose, the pressure had no where to go, so it blew out the see-through plate. It was quite a boom, I nearly wet my pants! It seems to me that using an ACTUAL combustion chamber is the only way to get an accurate test result. The shape of the head's combustion chamber is a series of angles and curves........it is that way for a reason! The link is below for the 125 psi test.
VexUs Plasma Vs. 125 psi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwYzEZ5gEo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwYzEZ5gEo)
Bill's Nexus Circuit in Vehicle Update
Just wanted to update everyone on my progress. I have noticed that the diode banks I constructed have a tenancy to fail and cause cross talk (miss firing) after about 100 miles or so. I found that due to the way that I arranged the diodes in close proximity to each other, the HV breaks down the insulator I used and then jumps across to the nearest diode and reduces the blocking voltage. On my first diode banks I used Liquid Electrical tape on the diode leads, bent the bank every third diode and then Shrink wrapped the entire assembly. In an attempt to correct this issue, I bent the diodes back into a straight line, added another layer of liquid tape, applied a smaller size shrink wrap over the straight string of diodes and then bent them at every fifth diode to make them three wide. This version worked for a short while longer, but ultimetely still failed in the same fashion. After 150 miles the cross talk began again. I have come to the conclusion that if using a string of lower voltage diodes, they must be kept in a straight line configuration or at least maintain a distance of 1/2 inch between the leads. In my opinion, the easiest way to resolve this issue is to just use 2 to 4 HV diodes in parallel just as gmeast does. So I have ordered some 15KV 550ma diodes today and will install them as soon as they arrive. Until then the testing is on hold.
I can report that during the 100 and 150 durations, I have not had any inverter issues. I do not have any TVS installed in the circuit. I am planning on using them, but haven't ordered them yet. Need to have more items to purchase from Mouser to justify shipping costs. The TVS's don't cost very much.
Performance still appears to be enhanced using the plasma (until the diodes fail). Easier cold starts, smoother idle and acceleration. I cannot report on MPG's due to the diode issues, but I am remaining optimistic. I hope to replace the diodes and be able to use an entire tank of fuel or two to be able to make a comparison. I have been tracking my fuel consumption for some months and have a very good base line to judge it against. Once this has been done, I will begin to play with the fuel management system in order to lean out the fuel mixture.
But for now, one step at a time.
Sorry for the long winded post, but I haven't been able to post for the last couple of days and just wanted to keep everyone up to date.
Until next time,
LapperLL
Silly questions for sure, but it is hard for me to understand electronics.
Really thank you!!
Zissis
Hi LapperLL,
Hats off to your tenacity. It takes real-world testing to reveal challenges and you have done a great job of long term testing on the Nexus circuit. It's only this way that we all get to the finish line!
Peace,
Greg
Greg,
Thank you for your encouraging words. That means a lot coming from someone of your stature.
I had a question on your oscillator circuit. What values are you using for C1 & C2? also what type of diodes for D1 & D2?
I also found this circuit on the net but have read that there are a lot of issues with finding the proper cap values to use. It appears that what you have selected works fine.
Great job!!!
LapperLL
Greg,
Thanks for the info. That is basically the same schematics that I found. The one I found also states to use a 24vdc center tap transformer. It even explains how to convert a MOT. I don't think converting a MOT would be necessary as we are not drawing that much current, but maybe the 24vdc tranny will provide the voltage required at higher RPM's. I think that I will get one of each and see which one works best. I haven't had any inverter issues but it looks as if your oscillator draws much less power, and that is always better.
Again, thanks for the info and here is a copy of the schematic that I found. As I stated, my research on this circuit has found that it has issues and most say it does not work as written. I think the different cap configuration in your circuit makes it more stable and keeps the caps from exploding.
LapperLL
......................................
LapperLL,
Yeah, I just ordered a 20 VAC x 1.2A through hole tranny myself as an upgrad to what I have ... just not enough copper wire ... too high a resistance on the outbound. Just for kicks the one I just ordered is Mouser #546-164G20 (20VCT@.6A 10V@1.2A).
I'll see if that does it ... but right now I'm still pretty happy.
Greg
Hey no problem, thank you for helping and thinking along. 8)
Why is the ohmic resisance needed?
Also, what I don't understand is, what is the function of a diode over a capacitor?
The goal the circuits posted here is to create a plasma discharge, but what is the goal of this plasma?
To better the ICE ignition process or to explode water? Or mix it and explode both?
If you allow me to make some questions please,
(Because I did not make yet the whole experiment, but I will make it soon , I hope)
When we use 100W bulb , do we get the maximum effect of the plasma or
in case we use 150W bulb , do we expect more "lightning of the plasma"? (or not).
Have these bulbs the same resistance between them or their resistance decreases by increasing the power consumption (Watts) of the bulbs?
The bulbs in your experiment use 110V voltage or 220V voltage?
Thank you
Hi Alan,
In the original circuit, a resistor R1 limits the inrush current to CDI Cap C1 so as not to destroy voltage pump (oscillator / inverter) components .. enough resistance to adequately prevent damage but low enough to get a complete charge on C1.
Initially the goal was to just explode water. Find the original ,first, post in this thread by Gotoluc. But first we want to see the effect of plasma with just fuels and ratios. Then we want to mix and explode both ... emulsion. Also mix Hydroxy Gas in and ignite it, and more. Final goal ... water as fuel.
Peace,
Greg
(http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/VexUs_3.jpg)
A more question please to all friends...
What is the reason (the need) to use high dc voltage (110V AC gives 155,56V DC , also 220V AC gives 311,13V DC), when we want high intensity current to work parallel (and upstream?) with high voltage of the car coil?
Is there "a best combination" between DC voltage and DC intensity that we "give" with Mr Greg's circuit?
Because if is not, then why don't we use many parallel diodes ( to have more intensity) from our battery "straight on" the car coil?
I am waiting for your opinions and ideas...
thank you
Added:
Congratulations to the Citizens of America for Electing such a great man as Barack Obama. I have a good feeling he will be a great asset for the transformation needed in your Nation to which will have a World Wide impact.Luc
Dude, you cannot be that naive.
Obama is not a great man. He is just a puppet. So is McCain; so is Bush. so is Hillary Clinton and so was Bill Clinton.
Obama is not going to do one thing as president that is of his own design. Zbigniew Brzezinski is the one calling the shots. Everything that Obama does as president will be under the supervision of Brzezinski.
Zbigniew Brzezinski is the front man for The Trilateral Commission. They put Jimmy Carter into office. When Carter thought that he was actually in charge and tried to do things on his own, Brzezinski had the Federal Reserve jack up interest rates to sabotage the economy and make Carter look incompetent.
The Trilateral Commission's ultimate goal is to establish a trilateral, global monetary system via the United States, Europe and Japan. All this is to consolidate and streamline the control that the international private banking families of the Rothschild's already exert over the world.
Not only do they control us through the world's monetary systems, but they also control us through energy. The Rockefellers began as oil barons in the 19th Century and the Rothschilds recognized the tremendous advantages and importance of keeping the world dependent on oil. So they took the Rockefellers into their fold and built up an oil/monetary control infrastructure that exists to this day.
That is why these forums are so important: Because "pay-as-you-go" energy is how they control us, and it is up to us to smash those chains of control and to free the world.
power usage
Hi all,
Now that I am generating ALL of the power my VexUs circuit uses (that includes the oscillator/inverter power) I can give you REAL power usage figures for the VexUs circuit.
at idle: 8A @ 13.8VDC = 110.4 Watts
at 4500 RPM: 10A @ 13.8 VDC = 138 Watts
I just wanted to share this information.
Peace,
Greg
It's just me again,
I did it this time at 125 psi, 2,300 rpm. The higher the pressure, the bigger the plasma gets!!! Keep in mind, I am ONLY discharging 2.5uF in these vids! The reason, I think, that I had to make a new combustion chamber plate is because my painter was using his DRY air system at the time I wanted to make another video. I used regular shop air and it has moisture in it. The plasma built up size as I increased chamber pressure........And BANG! I'm betting the large plasma ball ignited the amount of water vapor coming through the air hose, the pressure had no where to go, so it blew out the see-through plate. It was quite a boom, I nearly wet my pants! It seems to me that using an ACTUAL combustion chamber is the only way to get an accurate test result. The shape of the head's combustion chamber is a series of angles and curves........it is that way for a reason! The link is below for the 125 psi test.
VexUs Plasma Vs. 125 psi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwYzEZ5gEo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwYzEZ5gEo)
Here you go guys, we were so impressed with all the groups efforts,
and research that it inspired us to put this video production together
with every ones collective efforts.
.....................................................................................
Here you go guys, we were so impressed with all the groups efforts,
and research that it inspired us to put this video production together
with every ones collective efforts.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9071695126208320206&hl=en
In fact i am so impressed with this research and how far every one is
taking it working together that i am going to talk to the Panacea
trustee's about making a donation to our head engineer Luc at the end
of the year for this research:D
Greg, Luc, lapperll, Peter Lindermann ALL! you guys all know who you
are and are mentioned and featured in this video.So you guys don't get
board, we added in our results of the booster on the Brigg's also with
the booster on the car, plus this video also features a suppressed
plug (Ian's) exclusively given to us, we also aimed to help Rob Kupra
and him, plus support the open source engineers.
You guys get the Panacea award for excellence - under the "open
source device of the year", and at the end of the year ill be talking
to Luc to help all, ill be adding to this video all other results and
our plug wear report as they come in so its a good start.
Well done guys, the video is also a compilation as well
Be on you tube as well tonight
Wo thanks allot Luc :o, my only reward i want is that the mainstream public know how awesome and altruistic ALL you guys all are , as long as you guys get due credit. :)
Now i am gonna get Andrew (the other half of Panacea) to make Greg's and we can compare and run them with hydroxy.
A modest spark is amazing alright ;D. Lets not forget Rob Kupra got 44% ,even with a modified ignition?, WHERE IS THAT ENERGY COMING FROM? It coming from the NORMAL car ignition or battery?. That's allot of power to get 44%, catch my drift, we would be getting more power for 10 amps on Gregs, ill put the car on the Dyno in December and see if we can take a closer look at how much power.
Okay its been 5 days of 1hour trips, tomorrow is D day, if no plug wear with hydroxy, you guys have done it!
If so, wont matter, we will just keep testing and working on it simple as that. It an honor to watch you all work together .
Sincerely
Ash
Ps, ill be adding allot of updates and the groups progress to that video as we get it.
Great work everyone. Ive been following all this for about 5 months. Trying to play catchup, but your creating faster than I can build. I have a briggs engine built with a geet system setup on it with an altanator hooked to it.I've built the plasma spark system and am finishing an HHO cell today. I hope to get it all put together in the next few days.Then maybe I can contribute with a little bit of testing.
Keep up the great work , this is Kool stuff, and maybe together we can all start to change the world.
Gourdman
Heya Greg, sorry dood my bad :P
You know if i put that Bug on a dyno and i say 6amps peak to the power your getting, i dont think it will be under a COP of 1 personally.
i mean how can 6 amps give all that energy to the bug. I have seen ours ROCKET along with 6 amps too, (8 amps peak)
Ill say again, how does the fire storm spark plug get 44% with out extra energy input? FORTY FOUR PERCENT HELLO
I think this circuit is OU
Lets see on the Dyno shall we (in December)
44% gain is very very good, but this depends on which engine we are talking about. Getting that sort of gain in a highy tuned super efficient engine is going to be a big WOW. ;D
Its pretty much the same as changing a badly designed stock exhaust would benefit the greatest gain, while an already optimized system would probably only get 1% gain.
You know how things get marketed these days ;)
I wish you a wonderful good morning...
The weather here in Greece (South Europe) is good enough.
Yesterday, I made plasma myself, using my friends greg plan (as it is already shown).
I took 220Volt AC (electricity of Europe), and I read 315Volt DC on my multimeter (voltmeter).
I used the C capacitor = 470uF/400Volt as it was (in the plan).
Instead of a resistor 100watt i use a bulb 220volt 100watt (Europe). I measured its resistance and it was 38 Ohm.
The only thing i changed on my friend greg's plan was the C1=10-47uF capacitor , which in my case (Europe) should be (as it is shown) 1uF/500volt and it worked very good.
The video i took is on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgqsxp7sdFE
I used for electronic ignition the already known plan which uses the tip 122 transistor.
I am always here with you, to take and give experience, and to support our forum
Thank you very much again
I wish you a nice day
Damianos
I don't know... I like to learn...
Heya Greg, sorry dood my bad :P44% of what?
You know if i put that Bug on a dyno and i say 6amps peak to the power your getting, i dont think it will be under a COP of 1 personally.
i mean how can 6 amps give all that energy to the bug. I have seen ours ROCKET along with 6 amps too, (8 amps peak)
Ill say again, how does the fire storm spark plug get 44% with out extra energy input? FORTY FOUR PERCENT HELLO
I think this circuit is OU
Lets see on the Dyno shall we (in December)
Hi guys, finally in. Now mixed results, seemed like we got 5% better MPG or so, which adding to the booster being 16% is still significant 21%:) . Now no one would be with out this plug circuit (as is) to start their car in winter. Even if they didn't run the circuit all the time and just bi- passed it after starting, Greg already showed us how useful it is by being able to start with no choke etc.
Here are the snaps of plugs after an average of 50 minutes driving a day for 6 days no rest. I think they held up OKAY, BUT There is some SLIGHT wear as you can see. Rev's circuit may still need less caps and more voltage IMO. We are gonna try that next. Greg may have found the best balance.:D
http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pic0008pj9.jpg (http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pic0008pj9.jpg)
ImageShack - Hosting :: pic0007zo5.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pic0007zo5.jpg)
ImageShack - Hosting :: pic0006rq0.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pic0006rq0.jpg)
ImageShack - Hosting :: pic0006wh9.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pic0006wh9.jpg)
ImageShack - Hosting :: pic0005hd9.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pic0005hd9.jpg)
Here are the custom leads Andrew made
Which comprise 16 diodes 1000 Volt 3 amps
ImageShack - Hosting :: pic0009bl7.jpg (http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pic0009bl7.jpg)
krupa stated that the huge gains came out when the air fuel ratio was tweaked from 14:1 (normal) to 30:1and out of no where around 100 hp came out of nowhere.....something happened around high air to fuel ratios....listen to his radio interview on the blog talk radio website under water fuel museum. he considered his spark plugs to be "plasma flame"
44% of what?
mpg increase?
Thats good to hear, I hope we get to that stage in pulling out 100hp more out of an engine 8)
I think it must be 44% power gain according to the quote above.
Hi Damianos,
good for you ;)... I am happy you are enjoying to do this research. Thank you for sharing your results.
I took the liberty to add your YouTube link directly in your post which makes it easier for viewers.
Luc
>It will be important to find out what double the voltage but using same Joule energy would do in the same test period.
Luc, you guys work your butts off, its not often we get access to resources, so for this Dyno in December, your my head engineers 8) ;D AND ANY requests and test you want lay it on me man.
Okay ill ask Andrew to tweak Rev's circuity based on double the voltage but using same Joule energy would do in the same test period. ;)
I wish you a wonderful good morning...
The weather here in Greece (South Europe) is good enough.
Yesterday, I made plasma myself, using my friends greg plan (as it is already shown).
I took 220Volt AC (electricity of Europe), and I read 315Volt DC on my multimeter (voltmeter).
I used the C capacitor = 470uF/400Volt as it was (in the plan).
Instead of a resistor 100watt i use a bulb 220volt 100watt (Europe). I measured its resistance and it was 38 Ohm.
The only thing i changed on my friend greg's plan was the C1=10-47uF capacitor , which in my case (Europe) should be (as it is shown) 1uF/500volt and it worked very good.
The video i took is on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgqsxp7sdFE
I used for electronic ignition the already known plan which uses the tip 122 transistor.
I am always here with you, to take and give experience, and to support our forum
Thank you very much again
I wish you a nice day
Damianos
I don't know... I like to learn...
it was actually an increase in mileage and a 90 percent decrease to nearly no pollution coming from the exhaust......they said that when the 100hp came out of nowhere the car almost jumped off the dyno......they sadi they would have kept trying higher and higher fuel to air ratios but the uy that wrote the program just stopped at 30:1......krupa said he doesn't know what would have happened if the air to fuel kept becoming leaner and leaner.
Hi guys
I have had success getting a fuel vapour sytsem to work. Its not related to this topic, but I'm hoping that maybe Luc might find it intersting with his GEET work.
My topic http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6007.new#new
Cheers
PS77
HI all
im new, all the way from south africa. very interested in the plasma spark tech. i have a feeling it is the way forward :)
i have a few questions:
1. it was posted earlier that, running a 30:1 mix and a proper atomisation method, not a carb or injection, would work well and not generate too much heat. WHAT is the correct fuel induction method to use?
2. can the plasma circuitry be used on a modern motor (with out a conventional coil, dizzy setup)?
3. for best results, should the plasma spark be run with a lean petrol mix with water injection and a hho generator?
4. if so what is the best method of water mist injection?
i realize these may be simply questions, but answers will greatly increase my understanding of the tech, as well as give me an idea of the long term goal.
many thanks!
I have modified generators in the past too run on propane. There are a number of adjustments to be made to the engine. Timing issues and valve lubrication systems which basically boil down to dropping light weight oil in the intake manifold.
I believe that the popping heard when the water is misted onto the plasma stream is not hydrogen and oxygen exploding. What is happening is that the plasma acts like a static discharge that lasts for a long long time. This discharge breaks the water molecule to molecule bonds. And the water becomes h20gaseous. Steam. It will revert to water very quickly as there is no thermal agitation of the water molecules like in a boiler. To increase the pop it may be necessary to ionize the intake air so that the whole mix is electrically active.
Hi Damianos,
Super name you have there. Great job man.
Peace,
Greg
Hi sparks,
thanks for your input. I really like this idea: To increase the pop it may be necessary to ionize the intake air so that the whole mix is electrically active.
thanks for sharing.
Luc
@Luc
This is Andrew speaking: Where abouts would the current limiting go in the voltage doubler circuit? The AC side or the DC side?
What type of current limiter will work for the doubler and if it is a light bulb on the DC side, would we need two light bulbs in series to be able to handle the voltage?
Andrew
Hello Greg,
Nice handy work, it really is very nice to be able to see the reaction under pressure, thanks for sharing your test....
Greg if you have time could you draw one of your simple schematic's of your oscillator circuit with all value parts you used, thanks a million!!!!
Regards,
HV
Hi Luc,
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned turning a sparkplug into a Magnetoplasmadynamic (MPD) Thruster, similar to a Lorentz Force Motor, but using plasma instead, and accerating it magnetically. Instead of using a small center electrode within a ceramic insulator, how about using a solenoid coil around the plug to magnetically charge the core. Then the water doesn't need to get right into the plug to burn because the plasma will come out to burn it. The plug should have a funnel-shaped opening of course. Wouldn't want to cut a plasma whole right through the piston! Attached is a picture from the myelectricengine site, http://www.myelectricengine.com/projects/mpdthruster/mpdthruster.html .
P.S.
I'd like to draw and test some circuits, but need some free open-source drawing software to work in Windows. Anybody know of something like that?
Thanks to you all,
Joel
@Luc
This is Andrew speaking: Where abouts would the current limiting go in the voltage doubler circuit? The AC side or the DC side?
What type of current limiter will work for the doubler and if it is a light bulb on the DC side, would we need two light bulbs in series to be able to handle the voltage?
Andrew
Hi my friends,
I have already tested something else.
Perhaps many of you, already know that (I don't know), but in any case, i will tell it to you.
I use the always same type of spark (it is NGK 7811 BP6ES) and i will tell you this as an information.
So , Instead of (to make the experiment) the 100W /220V bulb (resistor) , i used a ballast (which we use for neon lamps, type TRL for L65/58 230V , 50Hz, and 22 Ohm resistance) and it worked with C1=1uF just good (I was not to much satisfied)
Then I tried to connect the 100W /220V bulb with the ballast (as a queue, the one after the other) and it did not work (absolutely nothing).
After this i put again the bulb and i made the test again by using now a C1 = 8uF capacitor and it work very good.
I tried it also with a C1=16uF capacitor and it worked much better. (but when i spraied water on it, water made a small explosion and then stopped, i don't know why , perhaps the amount of the water was to much , i really don't know).
(I have to say, that unfortunatelly I have not a capacity meter, to measure the "real", exact capacity of the capacitors. So, when I tell you a capacity, I mean only the number of the capacity it is written on the capacitor, just thinking that it is true).
Finally I changed the 100W/220V bulb with a 150W/220V bulb (with 33 Ohm resistance) and i used a C1= 1uF, and It worked.
I made the same with C1=9uF and it worked better.
I also made the same with C1=17uF and It worked very very good.
So I made a small video with this last job.
On this small video you see the 150W/220V bulb (with 33 Ohm resistance) working with a C1=17uF.
So please , allow me show you the following...
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPxSYJyS3DU
Thank you very, very much again,
your friend
Damianos
I don't know... I like to learn...
video corroborating pressure = intensified plasma
Hi all,
I have just posted a new little video corroborating what others have claimed. Mike posted a great video showing that increased pressure enhances the plasma spark.
I built the small fixture pictured below and ran the spark from the on board system running the plasma circuit on the Bug.
The Digital video doesn't do it justice but the contrast can easily be seen. Enjoy the video and I hope it answers some questions and erases doubts and conflicting opinions re: pressure and plasma ignition sparks.
The video is at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MP9CiEOEFY
Peace,
Greg
(http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/pressure_fixture.jpg)
Hi Damianos,
most excellent ;D ... welcome to the plasma club ;)
Great work
Luc
I have an Exhaust Gas temperature gauge on my car, and a wide band air/fuel ratio monitor. So I can compare both, live, on the fly while I drive my car. I also built a computer system that can control my air fuel mixture.
Here is what happens:
At 13.5:1 air/fuel mixture with normal gasoline, you get maximum power.
At 12.5:1 air/fuel mixture power trails off a little bit since there is not enough oxygen available and the fuel does not burn completely, which means there is a small cooling of the charge (less expansion during the power stroke)
At 11:1 the car runs like a slug. You get very sluggish performance and EGT (exhaust gas temperature) goes down up to 300 degrees to about 1150 degrees F instead of (1350-1450)
Approaching 14.7:1 you get a more complete burn, and better fuel economy. This is the ratio that is REQUIRED for catalytic converters to function, otherwise there is either too much heat, or too much raw unburned fuel going into the catalytic converter and it can't possibly function at peak efficiency and you'll fail an emissions test. The oil companies and car companies are OBVIOUSLY trying to make as much money as possible, because gasoline is inherently flawed. Without a hydrogen catalyst (Water Fuel) you cannot run an engine in a lean burn mode (above 18:1) air/fuel.
My vehicle is emissions exempt, due to the local laws. So I can run my car LEANER than 14.7:1 to get better fuel economy. Beyond 14.7:1 air/fuel, you are putting more air into your motor than the fuel can possibly use. Believe it or not, gasoline will not burn LEAN. The engine design, and the fuel prohibits a lean burn condition.
At 16.5:1 air/fuel mixture, I can turn in maximum fuel economy while the flame speed is still good enough in the engine to make decent power, and smooth operation. Since there is an abundance of air (oxygen) in the cylinder - more than is necessary - I am getting a very complete burn out of the fuel. Between 14.7:1 and 16.5:1 there is such a small difference in EGT that is not noticeable.
At 18:1 air/fuel the engine starts cutting off. Gasoline vapor burns too slowly at this ratio. There is not enough gasoline vapor in the cylinder, and yet there is an abundance of air. The resulting combustion is too slow to do any work, since the piston speed is nearly the same speed as the combustion, the combustion doesn't really do anything. The fuel burns, but the power declines sharply, making the engine very rough running and very low on power. Above 18.5:1 or so, my vehicle will not drive, it starts bucking as the fuel mixture is on the threshhold and will not run.
During cruise, part throttle, 16.5:1 air/fuel, I get 1000F EGT (this is very good for fuel economy).
During WOT (wide open throttle) at 13:1 air/fuel I have 1300-1450 F at the exhaust.
The reason you use more gasoline during full throttle is due to the increased pressures. Light fuel mixtures are more difficult to control, since there is more oxygen available, the fuel mixtures have a tendency to combust before the spark plug fires (detonation/pinging). If this happens at full throttle, it can damage your head gasket or destroy your pistons (I've done it many times). So what you do is richen the fuel mixture. The exhaust temperature goes down, and there is less possibility of detonation. However, gasoline is NOT GOOD at cooling an engine. Gasoline does not have a very high Latent Heat of Vaporization energy rating. On the other hand, water does. If you spray a mist of water into your engine, then you can cool the engine WITHOUT directly effecting the fuel mixture, hence you can run whatever air/fuel mixture you want without worrying about detonation (engine damage). This is why in WWII they started using water injection on air planes since the water can prevent pinging, all while using a standard fuel mixture (14.7:1).
Water injection is better at cooling than gasoline. Gasoline only cools a tiny bit, and it is NOT a great way to prevent detonation. It helps, but ultimately cars need intercoolers to cool the charge air directly before it enters, or water injection, or both.
Now here it the part that pisses me off the most. All cars have a method of richening the fuel mixture at full throttle. This prevents engine damage. Fords have been known to richen their engines excessively, some being 12.5:1 air/fuel! This yields LESS power than 13.5:1 and it WASTES fuel! It is totally against scientific logic and it makes no sense at all. Apparently these mixtures are used as a safety margin in case the injectors get dirty, etc etc. The oxygen sensor is normally disabled around 75% or 80% of full throttle. That is when your engine goes into a RICH fuel mode called OPEN LOOP, meaning NO oxygen sensor in the loop anymore. During this time a vehicle WASTES fuel because the fuel mixture is excessively rich. If you could supplement water into the engine at this time, you could use the water to cool the engine, and you would NOT NEED TO WASTE GASOLINE. Yes, we have been purposefully wasting our environment and pouring unburnt fuel through our engines just to cool them ever so slightly. It is absurd to say the least!!!
It gets really boring arguing with people who insist on using tons of gasoline on a turbocharged engine to cool an engine to prevent engine damage. Too much gasoline does cool the engine slightly, but there is a sharp decline in power. If you simply lower boost levels, or reduce ignition timing, you get the same power output with a proper fuel mixture.
No engine should ever be running richer than 12.5:1 air fuel, because the engine becomes very sluggish below this ratio. Too much gasoline just washes the lubrication off the cylinder walls and ruins the engine oil in 1/4 the time it normally takes. Water or water/alcohol injection is the only proper method of cooling an engine.
Here is my computer controlled vehicle using a DO-IT-YOURSELF computer that I soldered together from a kit. You can control it with a lap top. This is a Toyota Tercel. I installed a Mazda turbocharger on it.
Let us get it straight. Water is the answer to fuel problems!
(http://www.h2ofuelkits.com/tercel/images/4.jpg)
(http://www.h2ofuelkits.com/tercel/images/engine_finished.jpg)
(http://www.h2ofuelkits.com/tercel/images/fuel_rail_half.jpg)
(http://www.h2ofuelkits.com/tercel/images/fuel_rail_bare.jpg)
Hi all,
I've started building a small semi-GEET reactor for the Bug. It will be much along the test unit Luc began except I will have makeup air both from the crankcase into the top of the reactor as well as from ambient because I'm not closing the loop. An exhaust feed from the intake manifold preheat has proven to be a very convenient source for the hot bubbler supply.
News at eleven. Peace,
Greg
Hey Guys,
I fried the inverter I had hooked up to my Suburban. The VexUs circuit itself is already functional, just have to build a reliable voltage scource. SO, for this video the VexUs circuit is plugged into a wall outlet for the 115VAC. The QUAD shielded satallite/cable wire is working out very nice. Easy hookups, no shorts to ground, no RF noise on radio, it looks nice, and no interference with my OBD2 program. It was easy as pie to pop a plugwire off the distributor and unscrew the corresponding cable wire from the cable splitter to add in an external plug for video purposes. That way I did not have to undo the connection at the plug end!
This test was to verify that I was actually getting plasma at the plugs, since my discharge cap and voltage tripler are both mounted in the rear floor-board inside the Suburban. I used the farthest connection from the discharge cap to hook up the test plug. I saw no difference in spark intensity or plasma sound, (vs. on the bench) I thought maybe the cap was too far from the "event", I guess it makes it up there just fine.....as you will see in the vid.
My next test will be to use the ECM re-programmer I have and lean out the fuel mixture, one ratio step at a time, and then test it. My program will allow a max of 24 to 1 air/fuel, it will be interesting to see how far I can go with it.
During the vid, I had my boss to switch off the plasma circuit a couple times, notice how long it takes the spark to return to normal. Of course, I am only at idle speed, but I think it speaks to great abounds of the stability of the VexUs circuit, this is a V-8! The plasma created here is with 450VDC and a discharge capacitence of 2.5uF. Here's the vid link:
Plasma in the Suburban, Take 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D0HbSxTIEQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D0HbSxTIEQ)
I was able to run my geet engine some the last few days.
I ran it about 30mins with 60%water 35%gasoline 5%motor oil. I was very pleased with the way it ran.
I took a sample of the fuel mixture its in the jar on the left in the picture. I ran it 7 more times at 20 min entervals adding about 100ML of water after each run , then took another sample it's the center picture the water seem to be homaginizing with the oil and doesn't seperate. It has produced a pudding like substance that feels more wet than oily. the engine runs fine on this mixture. I kept adding more water and ran it a until it didn't want to run and took another sample. Its some strange looking stuff that the mixture is becoming. I was adding HHO to the system.
Today I emptied the tank and did a timed test run under normal opperation Plain gasoline , gasoline with HHO and gasoline HHO with Plasma spark.There wasn't much difference. I'm not sure the plasma circuit is working on this engine.
I filled the Geet tank with 75%water 25%Gasoline ran with HHO on. It would hardly run.I added more gasoline to the mix. I forgot and left the HHO on and had a small explosion that blew the air filter cover off that I've sealed. It turned out to be a nice safety, the flame never even got to the bubbler. Anyway I started the engine again it runs fine, but decided to leave the futher testing till tomarrow.
Thanks everyone for all the hard work, you guys are really moving foward on this at a fast pace.
Keep up the good . Maybe I can help a little with some testing on this engine.
I was able to run my geet engine some the last few days.
I ran it about 30mins with 60%water 35%gasoline 5%motor oil. I was very pleased with the way it ran.
I took a sample of the fuel mixture its in the jar on the left in the picture. I ran it 7 more times at 20 min entervals adding about 100ML of water after each run , then took another sample it's the center picture the water seem to be homaginizing with the oil and doesn't seperate. It has produced a pudding like substance that feels more wet than oily. the engine runs fine on this mixture. I kept adding more water and ran it a until it didn't want to run and took another sample. Its some strange looking stuff that the mixture is becoming. I was adding HHO to the system.
Today I emptied the tank and did a timed test run under normal opperation Plain gasoline , gasoline with HHO and gasoline HHO with Plasma spark.There wasn't much difference. I'm not sure the plasma circuit is working on this engine.
I filled the Geet tank with 75%water 25%Gasoline ran with HHO on. It would hardly run.I added more gasoline to the mix. I forgot and left the HHO on and had a small explosion that blew the air filter cover off that I've sealed. It turned out to be a nice safety, the flame never even got to the bubbler. Anyway I started the engine again it runs fine, but decided to leave the futher testing till tomarrow.
Thanks everyone for all the hard work, you guys are really moving foward on this at a fast pace.
Keep up the good . Maybe I can help a little with some testing on this engine.
I was able to get the plasma spark working today . When running the engine under normal operation
there seemed to be a slight increase in power when i turn the Plasma spark on. When I got the Geet system running really well on about 75% water 25% Gasoline 5%oil. I turned the plasma spark on and it bogged down. I am convinced that the plasma spark is making the fuel combust so fast that I need to retard the timing.
Which is what I have been told many times. It seems to me it would be easier to build some sort of bracket to adjust the magneto, instead of some of the other Ideas I've heard.
Thanks again to everyone for the help and advice.
Gourdman :)
At Luc : I'm almost sure the plasma spark is causing the engine to stall because it's making the fuel burn faster. It's the only thing that makes sense. Because the engine seems to runs better in normal operation with the plasma spark.
I left the carburetor on the engine and just sealed the air breather and put a shut off valve on the fuel tank so I can compare normal running to the Geet system easy.It makes getting it started easier too.
Just wish I could retard the timing as easy.
Thanks all Gourdman :)
@All,
I was reviewing Ash's video production of everyone's progress and i caught something Stan Meyer say's, ( go to 12:10 sec. on the video) , he says you replace the spark plug with a "water fuel cell injector" Simply feed processed water to the injector ?? ......i believe that there is two reasons Stan meyers needed to use resonance frequency in his water fuel cell, #1- to produce an efficient supply of hydroxy ......#2- using resonance frequency's no catalyst is needed in the water , I think he may have been injecting hydroxy enriched water .... Super charged with lots of hydroxy trapped in the water... A simple float activated fill valve could refill the water fuel cell as the water is used.....Stan did have a metal holding tank on his dune buggy.....??
For about 2 months I've been toying with the idea of using the water pumped straight from a water fuel cell to power a small engine, now after hearing Stan say it i believe this may work.......
Please everyone let me know your thoughts....
Aloha,
Jared
none of this (plasma spark) is new... not a fraction of it
they alredy use in jet engine
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=clKALKFZlF8
Hi everyone...
Not to distract.... but wanted to alert all to what appears to be a breakthrough on HHO production.
Very interesting audio interview with Lynnferd Grant who has now produced gas not just AT the electrodes..
but BETWEEN them.... a la Stanley Meyers.... no resonance, no tubes..... a paper clip.... and a spoon! :o
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6070.new#new
I have also made a video on my engine. It is a 4-stroke 80cc engine. It is not working but rortating!! I tried the plasma with no carburator.! Just on the Top Dead Center, and a bit after. Then giving plasma.
Video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AdyO79ZBMg&feature=channel
The second video is the same, but spark-plug is wet..!!
Notice the engine position after the spark, especially on the wet plug (2nd video)
I am showing with my finger ( video pos: 0:33 - 0:41)
The rotation of the engine without water (only plasma) was 180o. The rotation of the engine with water was 260o.
2nd Video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmzP79kSQLw&feature=related
Thanks a lot all of you!!
Zissis
P.S.: Sorry for speaking greek in my videos....
No gasoline inside the engine (carb is removed)
Hello everybody!!
Zis here....
Just finished the video recordings of my plasma construction.
I am using Greg's circuit with a small change. (diode 3)
I have redrew the circuit on my paper. Have a look.:
...
Thanks,
Zissis
Greece
P.S.: Diode 3 (D3) is very important.!! Without the diode 3 there was a closed circuit of the 316 VDC, inside the coil. This resulted the coil to get very hot, and sparks were rare. After i put the diode on the HV side, there was an dramatic change on the stability of spark, and the plasma became way Bigger!!!!
I have also made a video on my engine. It is a 4-stroke 80cc engine. It is not working but rortating!! I tried the plasma with no carburator.! Just on the Top Dead Center, and a bit after. Then giving plasma.
Video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AdyO79ZBMg&feature=channel
The second video is the same, but spark-plug is wet..!!
Notice the engine position after the spark, especially on the wet plug (2nd video)
I am showing with my finger ( video pos: 0:33 - 0:41)
The rotation of the engine without water (only plasma) was 180o. The rotation of the engine with water was 260o.
2nd Video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmzP79kSQLw&feature=related
Thanks a lot all of you!!
Zissis
P.S.: Sorry for speaking greek in my videos....
No gasoline inside the engine (carb is removed)
Hello Zissis,
I just looked at your videos now. I had to go and find a wireless internet hot spot to see it since at this time I am away from home and no high speed internet..
Very Very Good Job ;) since don't know of anyone that has been able to make an engine turn that much with water only.
Is this correct? this was water only?
Thank you for sharing
Luc
Hi Zis,
Greg here. Yes you are very observant ! Diode 3 is very important in a single cylinder or magneto ignition system. The 'Tero' circuit has that diode 3 also. But when you have a distributor there is not a problem because the coil output gets disconnected by the distributor and the voltage only flows for a very short time ... and the resistance in the coil there is greater than 15,000 Ohm ... so no problem. But I use D3 on the bench but not in the Car.
Great job on the videos ... you made the engine turn on water ! ! !
Thanks Zis. Peace,
Greg
When I made a hydrogen cell, I shoved the outlet right into the manifold or carb, did't get a whole lot out of it, but I tried it.
How about a little SALT water spray (actually I saw it done and it did seemed to put out much more power). All these videos and no one can put a little NACL into the water?
Whats up??? Why isn't anyone taking the logical next step?
Good work, but what's up?
Mike
Regarding my frustration at no water tests; as I've said in the past, I came from, and still pursue the Joe Cell approach, and Ed Gray systems -- I've applied J-cell techniques, and electrolyzer cells to GEO Metro, Ford Van, Landrover pos ground, and stationary 1-cyl systems.
I only have a few photos left in the yahoo joe cell group now (a couple):
http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/joecellfreeenergydevice/photos/view/7172?b=6&m=s&o=0
pure water after charging:
http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/joecellfreeenergydevice/photos/view/7172?b=3&m=s&o=0
You all have made great plasma designs, but I'm hesistant to jump in since S1r's questionable track record of truthfulness, and little to know results with putting water vapor, spray, salt spray, etc. in the cylinder and getting motion.
Thanks, my parts are all ready to go--all I want is some sign of success down this path.
I have the S1r coil done, ha-- why did I do that I ask myself now?
Still very good work guys
Mike
Hi Mike,
Well, the lag is about to change. I have just finished my power system and am happy with the fact that I can now make a 'blinding' plasma ignition spark that is stable across the full range of frequencies (firing rate). If you have followed this thread you are aware of several technical problems on several levels. Ash and Andrew have been testing several iterations of the water spark plug circuit. I have been concentrating on guaranteeing a high voltage spark at high frequency ... something others have not been so concerned with, specifically, but I have seen (on the o'scope) that the basic voltage multiplier's (commonly used) output degrades with frequency unless the multiplier is designed to support a minimum power throughput.
Now that I have a stable high freq spark I will introduce hot water vapor and various emulsions both via the carburetor and the inlet air flow.
So Stay tuned. Peace,
Greg
I have the S1r coil done, ha-- why did I do that I ask myself now?
Hi Luc,
There used to be fifty something pages now there are 231 from my browser. Is there a 'posts per page' setting or something that gone nu-nu? Maybe it's my brouser settings ....... help!
Greg
Hi everybody.
I am using Greg's circuit, as seen in previous posts.
UPDATE!!
I have put in parallel with the 100W bulb, (measured @ 33Ω) a small ballast, from fluorescent lamps. It is 20W and i have just broken up my multimeter, so i cant measure it at now. Anyway, the result is:
- Bigger frequency of plasma, bigger plasma.(with the ballast in parallel with the bulb)
- Bigger frequency of plasma, smaller plasma. (without the ballast connected in parallel with the bulb)
See the video in this link. Sorry again for my poor english....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MOiLUDkOJ0
I want everyone who can try this, to try it, and tell us if it is working good or not. Thanks you!!
Greetings
Zissis
Hi Zissis,
I have now looked at your video. This reminded me of some of my very first experiments with the spark circuit. I was able to to get a plasma spark using coils only (no capacitors). A coil will store energy giving an effect similar to a flywheel on an engine. I was not able to have a consistent spark so I dropped the idea but someone with more experience and knowledge should be able to make it work.
Thank you for sharing your findings
Luc
After seeing djzissis video of the engine spinning over with water and plasma only and remembering Ossie doing the same experiment, it got me to wondering just how much a standard engine with gas and a normal ignition would spin.
In both test I used a automotive coil and grounded down the side of the cylinder head, made a nice rapid fire spark. First engine was a weed eater engine 2-stoke with a very small combustion chamber. Wetting the plug with gas and screwing it into head, engine at TDC, then firing the plug I got nothing. I did this several times, nothing. Then I spun the engine by hand to build up some compression, again at TDC then fired the plug, the engine spun only 180*. I did this several more times with no better results.
Second engine was a a 5 hp Honda 4-stoke. Did all the above test plus poured some gas into the cylinder. The results were worse, at best the engine spun a quarter of a turn.
I'm not sure if all this means anything but I'm not able to duplicate djzissis results and he's using water! Keep up the good work guys ;D
Hello provelless..!!
Thanks for sharing something like this, and thanks for taking time to do a test like me and Ossie did.
Anyway, are you sure that you don't have any movement using a wet or even a dry spark-plug, and plasma????
What is the circuit are you using?
Can you post some videos of the spark and engine tests please??
Maybe I' am wrong, on my last tests on videos, but I think that it is a bit hard for gasoline to be left inside the engine, since I have never succeeded in making a regular spark on this engine.
My engine, was standing without gas for some years. That's why I am thinking like this.... you know....!!
Thanks again for testing and sharing the results. ;)
Regards,
Zissis
Zissis no plasma. Basically I took stock engines with stock ignition systems and using gas to see how far the flywheel would spin. I did this to compare with your test. It seems to me you"re getting more reaction out of plasma and water than I am with gas. The fact that your engine spun with plasma only is pretty impressive.
Greg, do you ever take a break? ;D
Hi provelless, I very much agree with you :) ... Zissis's has demonstrated the best Water Plasma Expansion ever demonstrated on this topic.
I truly hope Zissis continues with his testing and development as the World is watching.
Thanks for sharing
Luc
Thanks Greg,
I was in the process of going back through the posts to find this diagram and got side tracked this morning. Was glad when I got back to the computer to find it.
I came into this a little late and have been reading a lot and trying to remember where I saw things. It didn't make it any easier when the pages jumped up to so many. 8-)
Question,
I am going to put this on a 1980 Chrysler Newport 5.2, do I need to build two systems, or will one do the job? I read that someone is putting one on a 5.7 Chevy. I am sorry that I can't remember the name.
Thanks again to everyone for working so diligently on this project.
Rog
Hi,
I made the changes suggested by Zissis. To eliminate negative self-inductance of the coil I suggest you to put in parallel with the ballast a diode inversed polarized.
Thanks to all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gwlp34vaDs
The maximum frequency in video is 150Hz.
hello everyone, great thread
Zissis, great work very impressed by your engine rotations!
im going to replicate your circuit, you describe the coil as negative spark.
Is it correct that most coils are negative earth - positive spark?
so I will need to find a negative spark plug, from a vehicle that has a positive earth (the + from the battery is connected to the chassis)
or can i use a negative earth - positive spark coil but wire it as you have done?
Hi,
The sparks still the same at higher frequency. If I increase the capacity of capacitors, the spark is to strong. The maximum frequency it is 260Hz but it is a limitation of the ignition coil.
I use 40W ballast (0.98mH and 3ohms) and two capacitor of 14uF/400V in parallel after the ballast.
The problem is that the spark plug is hot after one minute at 100Hz.
" it is a limitation of the ignition coil."What do you mean by that??
Hello my friend!!
I am not a mechanical engineer yet to know much about ignition coils (I am 17 years old)
I thing that if you reverse the 12V polarity of an ignition coil you will get the opposite spark. I am not sure about this. You can test the High Voltage polarity by putting diodes. For example D3 (Diode 3) on my circuit. If the High Voltage is positive, a spark should not occur.
Anyway, I have drawn my circuit and part list for you, as my setup is. The part list is not absolute. Any similar parts, should be fine.!
Alternation 2 is a design for electronic ignition. The same as Capacitor 70 and Damianos members have suggested and used.
Here you are with the circuit.:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3067/3052259785_cd6dccb269.jpg?v=0)
Full quality here: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3067/3052259785_cd6dccb269_b.jpg
And parts List.:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3289/3052261491_717c96926d.jpg?v=0)
Full quality here: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3289/3052261491_717c96926d_b.jpg
If there is anything you want to ask, I am here!!
Thank you very much, awaiting your findings.!!
Greetings,
Zissis
P.S. If you will find a coil with positive spark, we can modify the circuit, and make it with "negative ground"
Hi Luc!!
Look what I have found!!
(http://www.personal.psu.edu/sdb229/plasma%20schematic.gif)
In this webpage : http://www.personal.psu.edu/sdb229/my%2520plasma%2520ball.html
Please comment!!
Thanks!
Hello everyone,
I have been busy doing some numb-skull experiments. One experiment that has determined the direction for the water spark plug's application to my Bug is this one:
First - older air cooled VW engines have an inlet air heat duct that comes from the hot air heater manifold (wraps around the exhaust). At idle a vane directs cooler inlet air to draw warm air off of the exhaust system for warm up. As the engine speed increases the vane is deflected by the flow and begins to bypass the warm air and include cooler ambient air.
It is at the inlet end of the heat duct that I liberally sprayed water mist that readily turns to steam and is ingested as water vapor along with the air.
With the plasma spark switched 'OFF', the engine sputtered or slowed at idle with the addition of the water vapor.
With the plasma spark switched 'ON', the engine sped up at idle with the addition of the water vapor.
So, I will by leaning the engine and bubbling bypass exhaust up through 50% distilled water / gasoline as a component of the inlet air.
This is exciting !
Peace,
Greg
Hello everyone,
I have been busy doing some numb-skull experiments. One experiment that has determined the direction for the water spark plug's application to my Bug is this one:
First - older air cooled VW engines have an inlet air heat duct that comes from the hot air heater manifold (wraps around the exhaust). At idle a vane directs cooler inlet air to draw warm air off of the exhaust system for warm up. As the engine speed increases the vane is deflected by the flow and begins to bypass the warm air and include cooler ambient air.
It is at the inlet end of the heat duct that I liberally sprayed water mist that readily turns to steam and is ingested as water vapor along with the air.
With the plasma spark switched 'OFF', the engine sputtered or slowed at idle with the addition of the water vapor.
With the plasma spark switched 'ON', the engine sped up at idle with the addition of the water vapor.
So, I will by leaning the engine and bubbling bypass exhaust up through 50% distilled water / gasoline as a component of the inlet air.
This is exciting !
Peace,
Greg
thankyou zizssis from what i havre read a coil wired the wrong way is 15% less efficient.
it wold be good to try a circuit with a negative spark, they are more common.
can you describe a circuit with positive spark?
thanks lots for your help!
Hi Zissis,
at this time I'm using dial-up internet so it would take too long for me to see the complete page and or video's
I can see the page is about how to make a plasma globe. Maybe you can tell me what you find interesting about this and I can comment on it later as tomorrow morning I'm driving for 30 hours to return to Canada from Florida.
I should be back online Wednesday night or Thursday.
Luc
Hello everyone,
I have been busy doing some numb-skull experiments. One experiment that has determined the direction for the water spark plug's application to my Bug is this one:
First - older air cooled VW engines have an inlet air heat duct that comes from the hot air heater manifold (wraps around the exhaust). At idle a vane directs cooler inlet air to draw warm air off of the exhaust system for warm up. As the engine speed increases the vane is deflected by the flow and begins to bypass the warm air and include cooler ambient air.
It is at the inlet end of the heat duct that I liberally sprayed water mist that readily turns to steam and is ingested as water vapor along with the air.
With the plasma spark switched 'OFF', the engine sputtered or slowed at idle with the addition of the water vapor.
With the plasma spark switched 'ON', the engine sped up at idle with the addition of the water vapor.
So, I will by leaning the engine and bubbling bypass exhaust up through 50% distilled water / gasoline as a component of the inlet air.
This is exciting !
Peace,
Greg
Thanks Greg,
Thanks for the very good and thorough answer. I am electronics illiterate and the answer spelled out a lot thing I had not thought of.
I am in the process of ordering the parts I need to build the circuit. I haven't tried to build one yet, but I am uncomfortable building one with an inverter. When I saw everyone frying them, I am reasonably sure I would fry some too.
I am having trouble finding a 3uF capacitor. (I am not sure I have figured out what the relationship between the uF and voltage of a capacitor.) So I will prolly build it and adjust as necessary.
Thanks again for the help Greg, and all you others too. I read every post, and then go back and reread them.
Good luck and God speed to all,
Rog
SS tube connected to audio amplifier
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nRzCX9oVqQ4&fmt=18
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=R7i3pDPz2YU&fmt=18
Thanks Greg,
I appreciate you taking the time to explain that to me. As I said, I am sincerely deficient in my knowledge of electronics.
It is guys like you and the others who are making this thread great.
I spent my last twenty-five years working on automatic transmissions. But for the last six years I have been disabled and can only do very limited work. I can do a lot of things, but not long at a time.
I downloaded a short electronics tutorial, but as I was reading it and trying to catch up on all the posts on this thread and two other threads, I know I missed a lot. I am also smart enough to know that I ain't gonna learn what you men know in six or eight months. What ya'll have prolly took your life time to learn.
All of you men in this group are gifted individuals. First because you can take an idea and bring it to fruition, second because you have the knowledge to put what you are doing and have done in words to help us slower ones.
So, again to you Greg, you luc, and all the rest THANK YOU!! for your endeavors and achievements.
Good luck, and God speed,
Rog
Hi my friends,
Hi my friend Greg,
I am very happy to read you!
So my friends,
there is also a very useful address here
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Water%20Spark%20Plug.pdf (http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Water%20Spark%20Plug.pdf)
I thank all people who take care to our attempt
Great Job Greg,
I done water feeding,
but on that time, i decide to feed only on part load, :)
i put water tank at front and feed line under floor to engine pass oil crank and copper tube that drill cross exhaust pipe for 100% sure that i will get steem.
steem will feed under carburator with one aquarium air valve, this will feed water only parth load include idal, or if you want only part load not include idal speed you can use vacuum line of distributor.
test with that as i ever post water 1.5-2 lite/40 km., only steem was not help mpg increase even i lean as much as i can, and power significantly dropdown i can't open air condition at idal.
i try sarvaral way to install Vexsus to my daily drive bug, but invertor always show red falt,... may be i must doublicate your invertor system.
again, Great Job man... ;D
Hi Zis,
You're lucky you inverter just showed a red fault light. Mine just blew up. I know the cmos went crazy then the inverter shorted itself out because the internal 50Amp fuse was blown and the circuit certainly couldn't draw that much. It is still a mystery.
Greg
I meant "Hi zzzz" ... Sorry Zis
Greg
Hi my friend Greg,
Anyway , I have to give you again my congratulations for your work,
and to thank you for your new posted fotos.
I would like to make you a question if you allow me, please...
So, my friend Greg , could you please tell me , if you have remarked any difference at the motor temperature values, in your VW Beetle ,
when it works with, and when it works without "plasma fire"...
I would be very glad my brother when you answer this to me...
thank you again
Your friend
Damianos
Hi Greg,
I still love the way you are doing this project on your car. It has me excited and I wish I was home so I could get started on my car too. It is all I can do to sit still.
In thinking about your timing with water/steam injection I keep being reminded of how older cars used to run better on damp cool evenings. I loved to race when the car was running that way. It seemed that the better tuned the engine was the better the car run as compared to racing someone with a similar car. Most times the race was determined by who had the newest points and plugs. Now you have the best spark anyone can hope for.
We didn't change the timing then. The cooler, damper air burned fine just like it was.
Now with this situation, what I would consider doing is blocking the engine rpm to about 2k and putting a vacuum gauge on manifold vac. Then play the dist. back and forth to get the maximum vac on the gauge. I think we used to expect about 27in on the gauge. What I usually did then was clamp the dist there and go for a drive and try all kinds of throttle positions to see if it would "ping". If it did, I would back the timing back down about 1/2 inch at a time till the ping was gone. You prolly already know that setting an engine with a timing light doesn't always produce the best advance setting. At one time I worked at a John Deere dealership and we had to put every overhauled engine on a dyno, After we run one in for an hour we would pull it back into the shop and re-torque the head and readjust the valves. Then it went back on the dyno and that time when we got it to normal operating temp. We would play with the dist till we got the highest reading on the dyno. If you set your timing as I suggested, it may behave differently when you have it on the road as as engine will change when the load is put on it. After all tractors didn't have vac advance to come into play when the load changed.
As for the water, I would be dripping it in as I was trying it with the vacuum gauge.
Of course, I am thinking in old school and this is a brand new field of expertise. But if you set the timing that way, you would have a good base line to work from.
I would also at the same time be adjusting the water to see how much I could get it to keep running on without misfiring.
Just my thoughts, hope this helps.
Good luck and God speed,
Rog
Hi Luc!!
This guy uses a T.V. flyback transformer to make plasma.
Since you mentioned something about flyback transformers, I found something and poted it.
Nothing special :)
SS tube connected to audio amplifier
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nRzCX9oVqQ4&fmt=18
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=R7i3pDPz2YU&fmt=18
Hi everyone,
I built and installed a water system today. It is very simple and .............................................keeps the inlet air warm - guaranteeing good mixing between the air, gas vapor and steam water vapor.
I did some highway ............................................................ I checked the plasma system to make sure all was fine with that too.
... For the record my odometer reading is 35987. I have no idea how many times it has actually flipped.
Kinda' looks like my Bug is on an I V Drip ... hope it survives !
I have linked ...........................................
Peace,
Greg
Hi everyone,
I know it's not much but I just rolled over 101 miles in my test. You have to rock the Bug to get the fuel gauge to move but that means little to those who know how non-linear those old VW float gauges are.
I'll probably keep messing with the steam system (not very scientific I admit) but I did make one change that seems to be an improvement. I added a piece of copper scrub pad over the hot exhaust pipe to force the water to wet the pipe over a larger area. This also lets me generate more steam. I might even benefit from some catalysis. To meter the water a little better, I've ordered a small peristaltic variable metering pump that runs on 12 VDC Ya-hoo ! ... I actually found one.
Some behavior accounts with respect to the steam, normal spark and water spark plug plasma spark:
1. no steam - engine speeds up and slows down when cycling normal / plasma spark - engine speeds with plasma on.
2. steam on / normal spark - engine slows
3. steam on / plasma spark on - engine speed faster than in #1
I've linked before and after pics of the copper 'wick' below:
Peace,
Greg
(http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/steam6.jpg)
(http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/wick.jpg)
Hi Greg,
I love your idea to use AC from the alternator instead of from an inverter. It is so simple. That way the intensity corresponds to the speed of the engine, and there's no 60 cycle dead zone. How do you get power to the unit while starting the engine, since the alternator is turning too slow to produce enough voltage? What about using an inverter connected through a relay to the starter, so that when the ignition key is in "start" the inverter supplies power, and when the key is in "run" the alternator supplies power. That way you have the best of both systems. Just a thought.
Joel
Hi Joel,
I think you might have mistaken me for someone else. I'm not using an alternator nor am I using a conventional inverter because my VexUs circuit kept blowing the inverters up. Instead I'm using a two-transistor oscillator and a voltage multiplier. The oscillator is sort of like an inverter though.
Sorry I can't lead you to the guy with the alternator. I don't know.
Peace,
Greg
Hi Greg,
Thank you for the reply and for everything you, luc, ossie, and everyone else I forgot to mention is doing. I'm sorry but I just drew the wrong conclusion about the green wire I saw coming out of the back of the alternator. Just look at the first picture from Reply #2349. I'm ordering the parts to modify my geo metro now, but I think there could be a problem producing plasma at higher RPM's. How does your Vexus system compensate for increased power demand at higher RPM's? I thought you had fixed that problem by tapping the alternator to produce more power at higher RPM's. My goal is to eventually install the system in a 1987 Toyota MR2 with a 1.6 liter four cylinder engine with a factory redline of 7500 RPM's. That's why I'm concerned about losing power at high RPM's. I think you are right on the mark testing everything and gradually increasing the water, and the condition of the water,(steam). Liquid water is not very compressible, but steam compresses well, and mixes well with the air intake. How will you create the steam though, if your engine starts running cold? Sorry for the long post, but I think your design is the best one to use in a vehicle, so I think these problems are minor in comparison to those you have already overcome.
Thank You,
Joel
Hi Greg,
Thank you for the reply and for everything you, luc, ossie, and everyone else I forgot to mention is doing. I'm sorry but I just drew the wrong conclusion about the green wire I saw coming out of the back of the alternator. Just look at the first picture from Reply #2349. I'm ordering the parts to modify my geo metro now, but I think there could be a problem producing plasma at higher RPM's. How does your Vexus system compensate for increased power demand at higher RPM's? I thought you had fixed that problem by tapping the alternator to produce more power at higher RPM's. My goal is to eventually install the system in a 1987 Toyota MR2 with a 1.6 liter four cylinder engine with a factory redline of 7500 RPM's. That's why I'm concerned about losing power at high RPM's. I think you are right on the mark testing everything and gradually increasing the water, and the condition of the water,(steam). Liquid water is not very compressible, but steam compresses well, and mixes well with the air intake. How will you create the steam though, if your engine starts running cold? Sorry for the long post, but I think your design is the best one to use in a vehicle, so I think these problems are minor in comparison to those you have already overcome.
Thank You,
Joel
Hi thermalenergy,
Hi all friends,
I had the idea to take AC from the Alternaror
To tell you the true, didn't test it yet because of some difficult situations (weather, enough place and ect).
The point is that i thought that when the crankshaft makes one circle, the alternator makes 2,2 circles.
So , when the motor runs with 1100 rpm, the alternator makes 2420 rpm.
2420 r per minure (rpm) is 2420:60 per second = 40.33 r per second = 40,33Hz
This frequency is enough to drive a transformer from 12V AC to 220V AC.
Thats all...
The only question I have is, if there is any kind of damage (in this situation) to the head of piston , by long time working...
So, I really don't know (that is the reason i am looking for a second hand engine, to test it) if this strong flame on the spark, is enough to make any kind of damage to my (one and only) car.
I don't know... I like to learn...
Friend
Damianos
Hi Damianos,
thanks for straightening me out about the alternator tap idea. I think it's a great idea if tested cautiously. A limiting resistance, or light bulb, should keep the power down to a safe minimum. The question is, with a variable frequency AC input, would it need to have a variable capacitance also in order to work properly? Since we aren't using a magnetic plasma injectors, just resistorless spark plugs, I don't see how the tops of the pistons would be at risk from the plasma itself. I think the greater risk is from burning a lean mixture, without water, and causing detonation damage to the pistons. I still need to get all the part numbers, so I can order them. That mouser.com site seems to have some really low prices, if you know what you're looking for. Unfortunately I'm more of a mechanic than an electronic assembly person, so I can't make the cross-references in my head. Damianos, if you live anywhere near Vancouver WA I've got several engines you could work on.
Thanks, Joel
Resending what I was write in energeticforum.com...
Hi All,
Today I tested the plasma effect on gasoline vapour. I made an apparatus that make me able to introduce plasma to gasoline vapour flow before burned. I used self pulsed DPDT relay to simulate engine RPM approx 30 Hz. This below the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9zI9onSUgI
I got explotion and implotion effect on it. Hydrogen enrichment gas ? I donot know. May be someone in this forum could explain that ?
I tought plasma act as catalytic fuel reformer to produce H2 when burn gasoline vapour (seen as explotion effect). Later, I will introduce this system to my GEET genset to see the effect on RPM and we will see if it worked too on diesel fuel.
Thank you,
Revizal.
Short report:
Hi all,
Well, I'm coming up on 300 miles in this test. I've never gotten more than 25 MPG with in the '64 Bug. It was rebuilt once to 1300CC from the stock 1200CC. The factory spec in the owner's manual (actual original manual) says 31 MPG US ... that's with the stock 1200CC engine. Nothing else is different other than the punch-out to 1300CC except I did put a centrifugal advance distributor on it ... the original vacuum advance system failed and I couldn't get replacement parts.
I'm looking forward to installing a real controllable water metering system though because the needle valve approach is fine but I can't adjust the water flow against the mass air flow (engine RPM).
I'll refill at 300 miles. I'll also take a look at the spark plugs.
Peace,
Greg
Hi my friend Greg,
I am really very happy with your result!
Congratulations my friend!
Your friend
Damianos
Hi Dmianos,
I really appreciate your comments, but I don't have any results yet. I will post preliminary test results today though.
Peace,
Greg
TEST REPORT
Well ........
I completed my first test run. I drove 300 miles. 65% of that was freeway miles at 55 MPH. The rest was around town, stop and go, my guess is average about 20 MPH - 40 MPH.
I want to say that the factory hype for this vehicle with the stock 1200 CC engine was 31.5 MPG (U.S.). I had the engine rebuilt - new jugs and pistons - which made it 1300 CC - a bigger engine with much more power - same carb as for the 1200 CC.
During the test I ran the Vexus Circuit with its own Oscillator and Voltage Multiplier (doubler). I also made a water drip system that forced steam to be aspirated into the carburetor at a set rate (Bug-on-I-V).
I topped the tank off with 8.44 Gallons of regular gasoline.
Do the math. Not only did we beat the factory estimate by 13% for the stock 1200 CC engine, we beat it with an even bigger, more powerful 1300 CC engine. We also beat the best mileage I ever got on this engine by 43 %!
Spark Plugs:
I did NOT use new spark plugs for this test. The plugs in it are the ones I've been using all along for the bench tests and Vexus Circuit development (in vehicle). I have no real estimate of the 'abuse' miles on these plugs.
I have included a photo of the #1 spark plug along side a new plug. There HAS been wear, so this needs attention ... maybe a different electrode configuration. The left hand plug is from the bug and gauges at 0.041" and the new plug gauges at 0.029".
This test has been conclusive on several fronts ... at least for me.
PLASMA RULES ! ! !
Peace,
Greg
@Greg,
I was looking at your plug wear picture you just posted and noticed the J electrode looks like it is fatter then the new one ??? ... is this something that the camera shot is doing or is this real and the metal is transferring location?
Thanks
Luc
Greg,
Nice work !!.....How much of the mpg increase would you attribute to the water ?
Do you plan to do a test run with just plasma ignition to see how much mpg 's increase ?
Greg you are the man, ......ALL HAIL GREG !!!!!!.......
Thank you for sharing...
Regards ,
Jared
Hi Greg,
Those results are an awesome confirmation of the plasma spark concept. Do you have any method of leaning out the gas-to-air mixture? I know re-jetting the carb is kind of a committment, but, you should be able to lean it down to at least 25-to-1 as long as you're adding enough water vapor to prevent pinging. I know of some cars that have a ping sensor, what if you used a ping sensor to determine your fuel mix and timing adjustments? A ping sensor would give you a scientific tool to use for adjustments, and could save your engine from a costly rebuild. Once again, thanks for all your hard work and your generous sharing of your results.
Joel
Hi all..!!
A man gave me an idea....
What about Wankel engines and plasma??
They have a smaller space for combustion compared to regular engines, and higher compressions. Also they have less kinetic things to move, and they are very low in weight.
Just a thought....
Regards,
Zissis!!
Hi Greg,
Main jet place at bottom fo floding chamber, you need to take carb out and open 5-7 screw out and lift uptop part of carb up, you will see. this work only the time you have enough flow pass ventury, no matter low mid or hi rpm.
Idal jet at right side of carburator, and have adjust screw in left side of it, idal is not use only at Idal, this use all the time that your maniflod pressure be vacumm, (if you hit paddle to the floor, on that time manifloe pressure near atmospheric idal will stop inject. acc pump will inject to pump rpm up and main will work later, just a moment your maniflod vacumm will increase and idal will work again...) :o
So most working jet is idal not main, even for cruising speed both idal and main are work togather. if you want to rejet to lean it very easy for idal jet, just tide adjustscrew in you will get abit leaner all part load work, :)
for full load you must do two parts, first for acc pump, solex use very simple linkage from trottle to press diaphram and they have adjustable stopper and spring, very easy to understand, more linkage press to diaphram means more fuel inject just adjust and see. ;)second thing is mainjet have two way to do, 1. rejet, may be 5-10 no. less have effect for normal application. but it need to find tune and you must have a lot of jet on your home to exchange. so i recommend to second way. 2.rejet by wire, just yuse your small electric copper wire, put it in jet, if small copper wire 10 wire can insert in, then if you want to lean around 10% you just put 1 wire in and tide it into the plase and use as normal. 20% just 2 wire... so on.... then when you get close to enough, you will go to buy the real jet.... ;D
thank for your great sharing...
zzzz
Hi Greg,
In my old racing days, I would solder the jet closed. Then I would re drill the jet with a smaller drill to lean the mixture. You can keep re drilling bigger. Once right size found, buy factory new jet. If you are careful and use sharp drill bits, the soldered jets work pretty good and you can leave them in.
Chris
Hi Greg,
In my old racing days, I would solder the jet closed. Then I would re drill the jet with a smaller drill to lean the mixture. You can keep re drilling bigger. Once right size found, buy factory new jet. If you are careful and use sharp drill bits, the soldered jets work pretty good and you can leave them in.
Chris
@All,
Here's a very informative lecture on voltage multiplier's....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lPvL-JLV0Y
Aloha,
Jared
Thanks Chris,
I'm getting some great suggestions (like yours) from the experienced crowd. I love it.
On another note:
I usually drove my bug daily in the vicinity of my shop just to keep things moving. I probably put about 100 - 150 miles (long stretches) on it during the VexUs development before I took the 300 mile (over 3 days) test drive. Well the poor thing has developed quite an oil leak (no surprise) and it's likely from the seals on the oil cooler ... oozing from there. So instead of the next series of tests, it's going to be pulling the engine and finding the leak(s). Between that and regular work, it's going to be a while before I can post anything new ... boo - hoo.
Thanks for listening. Peace,
Greg
hi greg
thanks a lot for all your great work with the VEXUS ciruit. i am currently sourcing all the components to replicate your setup. living in south africa it is a bit difficult to get all the parts you have, but im getting there!
i have some questions that i would be over the moon if you could answer for me!
- with regards to your voltage multiplier, when u use 8 caps, is that a doubler or quad?
also, in the photo there are two diodes between the caps, but they are not shown in your diagram?
- the power resistor you use...if i cannot find one, is a light bulb a suitable substitute?
- the CDI cap you use looks like a microwave oven cap, but will a standard alluminium electrolytic cap of the same specs also work?
- and finally, must all the resistors in the ocsillator be 5 Watt or greater?
i am sorry for the barrage of questions! but parts are expensive over here and i want to try and get i right first time. dunno how often that happens!
good luck with the bug!
many thanks
graham
jees greg, thanks for the excellent info! that has put me on my way! gona get the stuff today and get the show on the road!
you are the master!
cheers
graham
Hi all
my first test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLqkTsMHbPE
upup
so quiet... >:( ;D
Hi zzzz,
you know what they say... it's always quiet before a major storm ;D
Not to worry! it will be busy soon enough ;)
Luc
You have surprises for us then? ;)
Hi Chris,
I'm hoping this new research topic I started: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6225.0 will come back and help power this topic ;)
Luc
Luc I am jealous!! ;D
I have also started a topic which concerns to ultrasonic humidifiers and if we can make one ourselves.
topic's adress: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6279.0
zis....
Hi Luc,
I've pull the Bug's engine because one of the cast magnesium tabe that hold the oil cooler to the block busted and I have an enormous oil leak. I'm doing surgery ... glad I have a machine shop.
I'm also building a new oscillator that has lower energy quiescence that should make folks happier. Someone from here or Energetic posted it.
I'm going to open one of the heat boxes and wrap the some copper tubing around the exhaust line to preheat the steam water. on Energetic I posted one possible explanation for my good mileage. Here it is:
"I recuperate waste heat by turning water into steam. By doing this, I avoid the conversion penalty associated with the 'heat of fusion' ... that is the heat a substance, in this case water, absorbs before it changes state, in this case water to steam. This heat energy can't be recovered with a condenser ... it is therefore a penalty ... the 'steam penalty'. But I do this external to the process with (otherwise) waste heat. With the steam (gas) combined with the air and fuel, ignition occurs (thanks to the intense plasma spark) and the combustion heats up 'both' the steam and the air, but the steam is like an inert component that can absorb allot of energy. So it does and generates pressure in exchange. The pressure from both the air/fuel and the steam is about the same as it would be by just the air/fuel itself because it at a lower temperature. This is where the increase in thermal efficiency comes in ... it is a system thing:
The pressure ratio (compression ratio) is the same. The efficiency of the energy extraction (power stroke) is thus the same (p1-p2)/p1 ... if the ending pressure p2 is much, much less than the starting pressure p1, then the efficiency is high (that's why a high compression engine is efficient). The same is said for temperature (t1-t2)/t1. But what does this do for us? Well - the engine runs cooler with more energy being converted to output power because FAR, FAR less heat is being rejected from cooling the engine.
In my tests, after the engine warms up, you can place any cold plate at the exhaust and the condensation is about 3 - 4 times the amount of water as usual. The EGT is also cooler by at least 200 Deg F. But you don't get consistent running unless you use a plasma spark. I can run so much water (in the form of steam) that the normal spark will misfire. There is some inherent fuel/air leaning going on here also. If I aspirate the steam after the venturi, then the fuel/air ratio won't be affected ...this is my next step. BUT YOU NEED A PLASMA SPARK TO DO THIS."
Greg
Hi Greg,
thank you for the update and all this most amazing research, development and implementation you have done to date. I'm looking forward to the next stage tests after your repairs ;)
Over a year ago I did a test using just one side of my vehicles V6 exhaust pipe, just where the pipe connects to the manifold I coiled 1/4" copper tube around a 8" section and the wrapped fiberglass insulation over it. I did this the day before a trip from Canada to Texas to experiment with adding supper hot steam to the engines intake to see if it would help with fuel economy. to make a long story short, It did not work since I had not thought out the drip system trough. When I returned from the trip I took it apart to find the copper tube had completely disinegrated :o.
I'm telling you this true event since you mentioned using copper pipe on your exhaust. I know it is easy to work with but it may not last long so, I would recommend you use maybe brake line tube if you can find some that can bend to your liking or the best would be bendable stainless tube if you can find some on eBay or somewhere.
All the best to you and your setup to come.
Thanks for sharing.
Luc
hi, Greg,
when engine down, this is a good opptunity to modify your cyl head,
I found this man, Mr.Sing, and his method, that very match with vw head, this method is groove...
Vw head have alot of squid area to quench intake out to spark tips, but it always have remaining hc. that make vw engine can't boost up compression ratio too much... >:(
factory maybe 7.5 to 7.8 :1 that too low for now. at first i rise up to 9.5:1 with out groove, engine knock very bad, i can't use it daily, after i can't solve this problem , i start to search about cyl head, and i found groove, then i did to my bug and increase more cr to 11:1...+ new camshaft+groove.
bug become a monster ;D,
more powerfull, it seem like you drove v8 muscle car. but have oil leak, so i put a gasket to seal barrel then the cr drop down to 10.5 , after that i use this set up for 10,000 km before lub oil problem, that make lifter and cam fail , so i re-setup the enging again by reduces cr for supercharger but not done yet.... now engine use all standard parts except 9.2:1 cr head with groove.i use it until now, nearly two years, no supercharge as wish, because now power is more than enough. ;D
so for me,
groove is prove themself that it can solve knock problem for vw high cr head. and it work great with lpg fuel and normal gasoline. another side effect is fuel consumption significantly reduces. driver harder faster(110-130km/hr on hiway) but i paid for fuel less 10-15% compare with 7.8:1 cr...
first pic 10.5:1
second pic 9.2:1
I will try to finish Vexus as soon before supercharge project. 8)
just sharing some exp...
regard,
zzzz
Thanks Greg for building, testing and sharing the results of this new schematic ;)
Luc
Hi Luc,
You're welcome. I just wish I was back to testing. I can continue with the power hog inverter i have now, but I can't run my headlights too ... alternator gets WAY HOT. I never intended to try and understand inverters and power supplies, but it seems the VexUs circuit blows up CMOS and Micro-based consumer inverters, but not dumb old NPN transistor-based oscillators. Altering the VexUs circuit itself may end up diminishing its effectiveness to perform.
Many of the OU and 'strange' systems have weird operational characteristics that account for their effectiveness. Conventional science and engineering eagerly sends 'spikes to ground', puts in buffers, resistors and other junk that literally 'kills dead' any and all benefit. So I persevere.
Onward and upward,
Greg
new video - efficient oscillator
Hi everyone,
video showing new oscillator running VexUs circuit with very low current draw.
find here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBcSph922rY
Peace,
Greg
Hello Greg!
I am new here and are impressed with your work and like to build a vexus circuit with your oscillator. I am not into electronic so i need a circuit drawing or something like it. Could you please post a drawing on your circuit with all needed components?
Regz,
Electronz
firestorm spark plug replication on VexUs circuit
Hi all,
Here is a short video showing a Firestorm spark plug replication running on the VexUs circuit.
find at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BYubd_7RHY
Peace,
Greg
Hi to everyone. this is my first post. I am studying this thread from september and i am in the process to transform a B&S 3 hp in GEET and maybe, after transforming the standard ignition with plasma . My goal is to modify my Jetta 2001 with plasma ignition, but i have to learn vexus circuit. It will be hard for me to understand this circuit since i know nothing about electronic.
I want to happiness everyone for your remarkable job you do on the plexus and vexus circuit. Another thing i want to say, it's wonderful how, all of you, are polite, respectfull, always ready to help and share. I say, to all of you, thank you very much and i wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year.
Sorry for my poor english, i am a french canadian. I hope you understand me.
Jean-Luc
Maybe this is a little off topic but I just had a thought.... What if you connected one of these plasma makers up to a tesla turbine but instead of a spark plug use the plates themselves as the electrodes?
I recently tried showing one of my friends a video of a water sparkplug (namely this one: YouTube - Water spark plug)
"im pretty sure its just inductive kickback or that the resistance of the coil is ignored because the current goes through the diodes instead"
What do I say to this?
The impedance of the secondary is a hell of alot higher than the resistance of the preconditioned spark gap. The capacitor therefore discharges through the gap at an ionizing intensity.
@everyone,At everyone
below is a continuation of user smw1998a
I'm posting it here for your reading.
Luc
The Vexus Circuit. Pros and Cons
Hello All,
There was a post aimed at me about spark duration. (I have been inactive for several months) The spark duration of an inductive ignition coil is around 120uS to 140uS (micro seconds). This is true whether you inductively charge the coil as designed with points and condenser or in my circuit dumping 300v across the primary from a 4uf capacitor (without the HV diode). I’m not sure, but I think modern CDI is around 60uS because the coils are constructed differently.
Anyway, the addition of the HV diode in my circuit reduced the spark duration from 140uS to 10uS. Not because of the plasma in the discharge, but because the energy stored in the capacitor discharging across the primary winding went short circuit via the HV diode the instant the arc formed. Thus, creating the plasma effect and instantly robbing the primary winding of all power and terminating the arc.
At everyone
I have thought about using a longer Spark Duration coil to keep the plasma alive longer? Would this be possible ? You can get longer Spark Duration coils for just about anything at Summit.350 us 400 uS 1.5 mS and more in spark duration.Is this a waste of time? link is below.
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=coil&N=700+115&Nao=0&Ntk=KeywordSearch#rstop
Hi Greg!
I saw your Firestorm sparkplugs and i wonder how you made them? Are they a prototype or can you use them in an engine without wearing them out very fast?
Regs, electronz
Hi everybody,
Luc, thank you for the encouraging comments. I really appreciate them!! I wish you a creative and successive year too.!! Not only you, everyone in the forum.!!
I am back to Athens today because of the weather being too bad, and couldn't stay more....
Yesterday was the second day of testings.
When I started the engine, after 10 minutes of continued working on idle, 3 capacitors of the 50μF capacitor bank, got too hot that they were blown up..!!
As this was not too much, I got this problem.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBa3tfq_MS0
I don't know what to do.
Now it's a deal that i can't do anything because of the weather, but.... what's going on??
Thanks.. Zissis!!
You may have shorted out the mag.
Hi everybody,
Luc, thank you for the encouraging comments. I really appreciate them!! I wish you a creative and successive year too.!! Not only you, everyone in the forum.!!
I am back to Athens today because of the weather being too bad, and couldn't stay more....
Yesterday was the second day of testings.
When I started the engine, after 10 minutes of continued working on idle, 3 capacitors of the 50μF capacitor bank, got too hot that they were blown up..!!
As this was not too much, I got this problem.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBa3tfq_MS0
I don't know what to do.
Now it's a deal that i can't do anything because of the weather, but.... what's going on??
Thanks.. Zissis!!
Hello Zissis,
I think user name: sparks maybe partially right :'( ... your magneto coil wire inside the the magneto may have overheated and now has a small internal short so it may have less power then before but maybe just enough to jump the spark plug gap :-\.... but when you introduce any wire (dipole) it loses a little strength and can no longer jump the gap :( and motor stops.
We all have stories about blowing capacitors, inverters and diodes... welcome to the club ;)... we don't understand all that is happening in these circuits so all we can do is experiment and learn as we go.
I would not recommend to test on a good engine unless you don't care what happen to the engine. It is best to create a simulation at different RPM like Greg and Mike have done and then on the engine if successful.
Sorry for your possible loss of magneto coil.
Thank you for sharing your results
Luc
maybe you are right guys. But I don't think that I observed any heat on the magneto (coil). Anyway thank you. I am now awaiting of Santa to bring me a brand new 4stroke 6hp for just 130 euros. It is cheap because it is no named.
Thanks for your advice though..!!!!
I know.... Now I know why Greg uses High Voltage AC capacitors ;)
By the way, I found one: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3113/3153141684_8b72f6a193_b.jpg
But it's 1μF. 2100V AC. When I shake him I can hear some liquid inside, so maybe it's electrolytic. 1μF is so small I think. I am going to find some more of them and build up as much capacitance as I can.
Don't need to worry about the magneto.... It's very cheap and easy to change....
I know I should do a simulation first but I thought that it was not so important....
Anyway thanks for every advice and comment..!!
Keep posting and sharing!!
Regards,
Zissis
Hello everybody..!!
I found a dial-up connection in a cafe at my home-village and I am writing my results form some tests so far.
So....
I finally installed the plasma VexUs (with ballast alternation) at my 2 stroke 35cc engine. It has an electronic ignition giving negative spark so Diode3 is required to work. As the D3 was missing nothing would work. High Voltage blocking diodes are 10x 1N5408 + 10x 1N5408 to let more amperage pass through. Anyway, you can find some more details in the following video.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1soHSdFYTc
Notice the increase in RPM when the plasma is on.(the bulb glows) and then decrease when plasma goes off. Diodes get a little worm, so does 50μF capacitors. I have meassured the ballast and bulb resistance and it was 20Ω. The wall outlet is 230V AC = 316 DC. Diode 3 is 1N4004, blocking the low voltage close a circuit inside the electronic ignition coil. The fuel is regular 2-stroke 40:1 gas:oil mixture. I have not tried adding water yet.
Here is the plasma spark with the plug outside the engine.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qb2mTT-6wg
I used an old sparkplug where the two tips were too close and after 10 minutes of running the tips melted so the engine stopped.!! See a picture.:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/3143679315_8d33f4b1b0_b.jpg
Here are more pictures you might find interesting.:
Diode3 can be seen at the upper left of the HV - balck cable:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/3144513026_b26d5d2751_b.jpg
Circuit and engine all assembled together:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/3143703869_b511e099cd_b.jpg
More updates to come....
Thank you,
Zissis
Hello everybody..!!
I found a dial-up connection in a cafe at my home-village and I am writing my results form some tests so far.
So....
I finally installed the plasma VexUs (with ballast alternation) at my 2 stroke 35cc engine. It has an electronic ignition giving negative spark so Diode3 is required to work. As the D3 was missing nothing would work. High Voltage blocking diodes are 10x 1N5408 + 10x 1N5408 to let more amperage pass through. Anyway, you can find some more details in the following video.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1soHSdFYTc
Notice the increase in RPM when the plasma is on.(the bulb glows) and then decrease when plasma goes off. Diodes get a little worm, so does 50μF capacitors. I have meassured the ballast and bulb resistance and it was 20Ω. The wall outlet is 230V AC = 316 DC. Diode 3 is 1N4004, blocking the low voltage close a circuit inside the electronic ignition coil. The fuel is regular 2-stroke 40:1 gas:oil mixture. I have not tried adding water yet.
Here is the plasma spark with the plug outside the engine.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qb2mTT-6wg
I used an old sparkplug where the two tips were too close and after 10 minutes of running the tips melted so the engine stopped.!! See a picture.:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/3143679315_8d33f4b1b0_b.jpg
Here are more pictures you might find interesting.:
Diode3 can be seen at the upper left of the HV - balck cable:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/3144513026_b26d5d2751_b.jpg
Circuit and engine all assembled together:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/3143703869_b511e099cd_b.jpg
More updates to come....
Thank you,
Zissis
Happy New Year everyone,
The Bug is whole again ... finally! I will be reinstalling the VexUs circuit with its new oscillator. Also I have begun documenting the physical dimensions of the firestorm spark plugs so that I can detect any wear. I'll post the photos and other data both on Energetic and OverUnity.
The oil leak 'fix' was challenging just because. What I did seemed to work though.
I know it's off topic but I posted some pics of the task:
Peace,
Greg
oil cooler ready to remove
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/cooler0.jpg
broken mounting tab still on cooler
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/cooler1.jpg
tab and block
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/cooler2.jpg
cut off remaining (old original) mounting tab
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/cooler8.jpg
fix-it mounting plate
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/cooler3.jpg
screw heads for metal filled epoxy to grab on to
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/cooler4.jpg
fix-it plate mounted ... see the screw heads
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/cooler5.jpg
metal filled epoxy stuffed into damaged area
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/cooler6.jpg
epoxy filed and cleared for cooler mounting stud and nut
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/cooler7.jpg
ta da done and ready for cooler and seals, shroud, alternator, distributor, carburetor ... whew!
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/cooler9.jpg
Hi Zissis,
thank you for sharing your new test engine ;)
She looks very good in Yellow ;D... maybe you can call her Goldie
I wish you success in your 2009 tests
Luc
Hi Luc....
The purpose of buying her was just to test and share....
Thank you very much my friend....
By the way.... I have just tied up the yellow caps. I had opened them in order to find the coils inside.
Only one coil just like the other coil on the 2-stroke. The small bronze box is for the oil level safety valve.
The black wire seems to give some voltage, so it may be used to trigger a transistor using an external battery and an external coil.
Here is a couple of pictures, nothing special....:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1081/3163491557_6df232ae73_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1181/3164328562_ff8cf3494a_b.jpg
That's all for now....
More updates soon....
P.S.: About the name, I prefer.: "the VexUs Sparky" if Greg agrees....
Hi Luc....
The purpose of buying her was just to test and share....
Thank you very much my friend....
By the way.... I have just tied up the yellow caps. I had opened them in order to find the coils inside.
Only one coil just like the other coil on the 2-stroke. The small bronze box is for the oil level safety valve.
The black wire seems to give some voltage, so it may be used to trigger a transistor using an external battery and an external coil.
Here is a couple of pictures, nothing special....:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1081/3163491557_6df232ae73_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1181/3164328562_ff8cf3494a_b.jpg
That's all for now....
More updates soon....
P.S.: About the name, I prefer.: "the VexUs Sparky" if Greg agrees....
HI Zis,
It's your engine, time and creativity. The right name is the name you're most happy with.
Peace,
Greg
Humm... Sparky is good but is not so female... would you consider "VexUs Shakti"... Shakti is know as the female attribute of God and is the energizing spark found in all living things. It is also known as Chi.
What ever you feel is right :)... this is just a suggestion.
Luc
Considering that this is a collaborative effort...and it is taking place on 'overunity.com'...what about considering calling 'her'...'Unity' ?
Regards...
Actually, the whole thing is gotoluc's fault for making the observation public and Aaron's clarifications from Energetic. Showing some bias here since I cursed everyone with the VexUs piggyback version of Luc's original circuit, I like his suggestion of "VexUs Shakti" ... but "Unity" is also a very good name.
...my 2 cents. Peace,
Greg
Hello my friends, I like both.!!!!
We can choose "Unity" for fistname and "VexUs Shakti" as surname....
Oh I forgot the small silver box. I am going to find one too....
Greetings,
Zissis
Hello Zissis,
I now actually like the name VexUs Unity... since all this has been possible through the Unity of all involved.
The silver box was a plastic margarine container spray painted silver ;D
Luc
My hat's off to Robin David whom made the spark plugs.
Is it possible that this person would give out his secrets on how, what materials, and machinery the spark plugs were made of and from or lets say modified??
I would like to make a few sets for my automobiles, or have them made for me.
@Greg. Hi Greg. Do you know what kind of alloy are use for the electrodes on the firestorm spark plug replication? For now , that plugs seem to be very good.
I have seen the pictures on the bug's crankcase, you did a very nice job.
Jean-Luc
hi Greg
I just done my test with Vexus V.6
Hi-Grade Audio C 2.7uf. R 440 ohm V 295 dc with 335 uf storage cap ;)
I put wire at the distributer cap, and take plug out for easy to look, not have any effect...???
circuit didn't draw any current after cap full. But after i move dc wire to the plug, plasma show as it should. Then I put all 4 wire to each plug, and test function, circuit draw current but very less 0.1-0.3 amp 13.2 v...
So it still not so sure plasmar work or not, i separate another plug(5th) put #2 spark wire on it, ran 3 cylinder at idal speed, for short time. I saw plasma work on this plag but it seem not constant, 5-10 cycle plasma work fine then gone 1-2 cycle can see only normal spark and it looping all the testing time, I check V and current draw it still constant at -290 to -293 and 0.1-0.3 amp.???
I can't solve this, but it seem better than all normal spark, So i decide to run on real life,+ water add 1 lite/40 km.
after ran for work 5 rounds , 400 km. total, for sure easier cold start. Power and fuel consumption slightly better, but only 5% i use 80 km every day, normal i pay average 100, after plasma i pay 94-96 for 5 day test
If i add water, engine ran not so smooth, feel like missfire at ideal, and hi load low speed, then on day 3 i stop water add, bug ran very good... fuel consumption still 95 on the next day. this seem water not have any effect with fuel consumption. maybe quantity still not match.
for now day 6, off/on plasma did not effect with power and fuel consumption, and engine start to missfire again...maybe plug already gone...
So this is my test result...any comment...please..........
Guys, you may want to check out this metal and get a "Material Safety Data Sheet": "Beryllium-Copper"
I worked for North American Avation back in the 60's. The fine particles were getting into the air and people like tool & cutter grinders were dying over this stuff. They had to wear masks and wash the tools before they could grind any cuts on them. This stuff created puss pockets in their lungs.
Hi zzzz,
I initially had similar problems when my current limiter R1 was too small so the CDI C1 Cap would not fill all the way. I am using a 1uF cap and a 1000 ohm R1 and my oscillator supplies 350 VDC at 3000 RPM (four banger). Your combination should work too. Is there some way to make sure your power supply is working under load. It would be good to use an oscilloscope to look at the output of oscillator / inverter to make sure it does not fall too much as engine speed goes up.
Also, I had no luck adding water as water droplets / fog. But I had good results with steam I generate from dripping allot of water on the exhaust in the heater box.
The water circuit is not in yet but the following picture shows the inlet coming from the heater box, air inlet and filter is in the cab on the floor behind the driver, and the carburetor is kept from boiling by fan air routed from the right side (restrictor in end of duct hose 7/16" dia).
warm air and steam into carburetor - carburetor bowl cooled by fan bleed air
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/new_inlet.jpg
Be careful of high voltage. And make sure your wires are not arcing, etc.
Peace,
Greg
The 304 stainless will go away depending on the heat content of the plasma.
All plasmas are not hot. A plasma is what is conducting energy through a flurescent bulb. Tesla's tower or top load is a good example of a plasma field. Not the stupid streamers guys build for effects but a plasma initiated by a curved smooth surface like the spark plugs being designed here.
Hi Greg
where can I get this one for my bug... ;)
I still don't get significently fue saving from my system....
but still try...
BG,
zzzz
mixture and timing
Hi all,
I just got surprised out of my wit. All along people here had asked me how much I had retarded the ignition timing. I think Aaron (from energetic) and Luc were the first to ask me that. I had adhered to the stock timing for my initial testing which is 7.5 to 10 deg advanced. Things ran fine and I got good results.
I have been trying to refine my steam generation a little and partly accomplished my goals on that. Then I decided to lean the mixture somewhat because adding an inert gas (in this case steam) displaces some air 'oxygen' resulting in a richer mixture. I re-jetted to 0.0465" which is mid way between "stock" and "it ain't gonna run". I took it for a ride and it bucked, hesitated and so on. I check the electrical, scoped the VexUs system, checked the plugs ... bummer - nothing.
It was the timing. With a lean mixture and the water, the speed of combustion must be tremendous! I set the timing to 0 deg TDC and it was better and then 5 deg retarded and it feels great there. Now I can speak to the timing issue first hand.
I would say that plasma initiated combustion is much more energetic than the standard combustion by a considerable factor.
I am going to refine my take on the timing issue, try several points and then get back to testing. I am able to aspirate 50% more steam than before with the simple I.V. drip system ... so I'll keep that. I am taking in only part (not all) of the air through the heater box ... a change away from what I was going to do. I still may have to cool the bowl.
Thanks for reading this,
Greg
Excellent news once again Greg ;D
I always felt that if we could get the timing at TDC or past and the engine still runs well than that would be a real positive confirmation that we are on the right track.
Thanks for all your great work and sharing with all.
Luc
Thanks Zissis for the update and sharing your new video of Unity ;)
If I were you I would continue testing with alcohol since water mixes with it very well. What you do is add water until Unity has a problem running and then try to make changes that could help her to run better, when she does then add more water and keep tuning, modifying and you may eventually get to more water than alcohol ;D
If you post your results and you have good results, then most probably Robin David would want to make you a Firestorm replica for Unity to further improve your results.
Keep up the research and sharing.
Luc
Hi Luc.!!
Thanks for the advice.!!
I am going to do it even though alcohol is much more expensive than gasoline. :'(
Anyway I have noticed some "problems" running with alcohol. When the air intake is choked at full, this is the only way to start. On open air it won't start. That means that she needs a very rich mixture with alcohol. When I try to open the throttle at half, there are some misfires. Those misfires stop when I open the air intake at full. Then I can throttle it at full. When back to idle, and air NOT choked, it stops.
You can notice that on the video.
Thanks for the advice....
More updates to come soon.! :)
new nickel plugs
Hi everyone,
I received my new set of Firestorm replicas from Robin. They are beautiful .. you've already seen one of them posted here.
The first thing I did was a pressure test. It would barely fire either on regular spark of VexUs. The gap is much greater .090 Krupa gap. The Bug would not run. Robin said he's running the same nickel plug/gap so I started to suspect my Bug's old coil. I switched it out with a new one and ... tah dah !
Under the pressure test these plugs Kick A. But, and I don't know if I should feel disappointed or not, they produce what appears to be the same plasma spark with or without the VexUs plasma circuit "on". At atmospheric there is a difference though ... but that doesn't count.
That's this update,
Greg
Thanks for the update Greg.
interesting way to find that your old coil was not outputting as much as the new one.
Also, very surprised :o that your pressure test is not showing any difference in plasma with or without the VexUs circuit ???
I guess the real test will be with the engine running!... please do update us of the results of what happens with the engine running and you turn on and off the VexUs circuit using these new Nickle Firestorm's.
Thanks for sharing.
Luc
Hi Luc,
Well the Bug runs very peppy. At idle there is an increase in RPM with the plasma circuit "on". Either under load or sitting at higher RPM there is no perceptible change. With more standard plugs there is change across the board
Greg
Hi everyone,
I posted a new video. Luc was disappointed in me for not spraying a Firestorm plug with water a couple of videos back so I made this video showing water spray on one of the new nickel Firestorm plugs.
It's short and boring but I hope still interesting for you all. It's here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6Jq_UgWv9E&
Enjoy. Peace,
Greg
Excellent video demonstration Greg ;)
And thanks for spraying water on them this time ;D
Would you say that the water is reacting better with the Nickel then the previous Beryllium Copper ones?
This was the idea behind trying Nickle, as it has been reported to have a catalytic effect on water.
Thanks for taking the time to post all these great still shots also.
Luc
Hi Luc,
Thanks. I thought you'd like the water-part. There are several things different. First I have a newer coil in the bug now ... not special, just newer. Initially the bug would not run on the new plugs Robin sent. The only difference was the .090" gap ... Krupa's spec on his plugs. I was going to send them back to Robin but I really suspected an aged coil. I swapped it out and "bingo!". So the gap is the other thing that's different ... that's a huge gap.
I was pleased to see those Flame Fingers in the real-world instead of just on the test bench ... they really are a hallmark of sorts. I have no way of verifying a catalytic effect, but I think they're better than the stock configs and the beryllium-copper ones. They have to better if they can produce most of the plasma on their own ... but now I think we'll still need a plasma Circuit to push it over the top. We'll see.
Take care,
Greg
Now, I have to tell you that my knowledge of electronics is pathetic :rofl: but, I think the principle is sound. So, here's the circuit I "envisioned" that's supposed to increase the 13.5VAC (varies between 13.5VAC and 14.5VAC) off of the car alternator and send it through an isolation transformer (40x) that is connected to the voltage quadrupler and then to the dump capacitor rated at 3000V 680pF (3.06m Joules). The dump cap is not in the diagram:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dc/Voltage_quadrupler.svg
Output ranges:
13.5V x 40 x 4 = 2160VDC
14.5V x 40 x 4 = 2320VDC
As I read here: http://www.kronjaeger.com/hv/hv/src/mul/ we have to use capacitors and diodes that are rated DOUBLE in comparison to input voltage (13.5/14.5 x 40 = 540VDC / 580VDC). That means (just to be sure) 1500V rated caps and diodes for quadrupler construction. I also read that these voltage multipliers can be found in old BW TVs, you can also read that here (under "bridge circuit") http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_doubler.
So, my question is, will this aid us in creating plasma spark (piggyback the existing spark, of course)?
Thanks for your effort guys!
Hi all,
Sorry for all of the posts ... can't help it ... I got so excited about the plasma arc-induced D.I. Water electrolysis and ensuing hydrogen-oxygen reaction I put together a short video compilation of the clearest events to share.
It's not big enough to waste on YouTube so you can douwnload it or open it. It was made with Movie Maker in XP. It's very generic but much higher quality than gets rendered on YouTube.
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/vexus_sequence.wmv (http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/vexus_sequence.wmv)
Thanks. Peace,
Greg
I have been following this thread for a while now and like what I see. As a race engine builder I fully understand the importance and benefit of super high powered ignition systems. I am especially interested in gmeast testing on the vw.
-----------------------------------
-----------------------------------
Sorry for the long post But I wanted to start getting involved with plasma experiments and data exchange. I do have a couple questions.
GMeast::
How is cylinderhead temp differ form stock with your current set up
Do you run an egt gauge?
have you done any emissions tests. This will show if nox goes up from flame temp. generally nox increases with lean mixtures. But the vapor you introduce can control it. I was curious to if you have emissions test or been able to measure temp of flame in cylinder.
how does the seat of the pants feel power wise......?
If any questions come up please post. I am very open and will answer all questions. Thanks for reading.
I built the circuit from a few months ago (with 22uF and 470uF cap), which had problems with inverter blow ups. I believe those issues have been resolved. I am having difficulty finding the latest/stable version of the circuit. If anyone can provide the link or schematic, it's much appreciated.
Thanks.
Thanks Greg. Can I use an off the shelf 150w or larger inverter for the plasma circuit? They are easily available for < $20.
Thank you for the reply gm east. It was very informative. And will help me in my application.
----------------------------------------------------------
also 1 more question. I am using a msd 6a box as well as a timing computer that allows static timing change on the fly.
Will the multiple spark have a downfall with plasma? Which style plasma system would be more beneficial. Gotluc simpler system or gmeast transducer style system?
I will try both fo experimental purposes but wanted opinions on which to try first.
Thanks again for all the hard work and sharing so far. I will try to shed some light on this field with tuning principles and sophisticated data acquisition equipment. also if I should post computer data log files here or host them somewhere else? Any ideas for info hosting?
I am not very internet savvy. It will be video and data log files. I will provide software to allow viewing of files.
Thanks
Rob
Greg,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for clearing that up. I am not an electrical engineer (obviously) I understand about enough to get dangerous. I was referring to nexus style just for initial ease of build.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The way I see an engine is the principles of using the fuel is completely backwards.
We use heat to generate power, instead of harnessing the fuels we now have to create a series of explosions in a controlled environment to make heat the byproduct.
We now are using power as the byproduct. Its all very simple when you break it down. We have just been lazy for the past 100 years and the current methods are out of convenience not necessity.
Enough of my thought process its time to get to work and put the " proof in the pudding"...
May GOD bless you all,
Rob
Hello everybody on forum.I am new on forum.First of all,sorry for my english.I am from country were is Nikola Tesla born,Serbia.I am telecomm eng. and member of many yahoo groups.My primary job is cable satellite instalations.I read all of 256 pages of messages,and see all videos on Youtube.
Thank you very much to: Luc,Gmeast,and others who build and test Vehus plasma circuit.
On yours topics I see two types of plasma spark ignition.
1. C.D.I capacitive discharge ignition,no powering HV coil with 12 V.Only discharge 1-3uF cap,to primary of ignition coil.Diode bank using for protect invertor or oscilator ,and add 300 V for plasma.
2.Clasic ignition,with 12 V powering HV coil,and 300 V with diodes for plasma.This second way not working with inverters,without isolating transformer.
Because I am new on this forum,I want litle help for non technical members.
I have many pwm switching mode schematic,and modern chips schematic,for automotive ignition.
On this link is good explanation of ignition principes:
http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Ignition/CDI.html
In my laboratory I tested many modern chips and all work very well .One simplest schematic is ,with UC-3845 and IRFZ 44 modern fet transistor and small feritte transformator.For discharge Cap.may use thyristor.On gate going triger from pickup coil,breaker contact or hall sensor.
In many modern inverter use simillar chips.Oscilator in inverter running on hundred kilohertz,and transformator is much smaller then 50 or 60Hz.After trans,have diodes and 400 V cap.This diodes is In FWB.,negative point is on ground !!!!! On this point solder positive wire.Negative solder on ground PCB.Second oscilator chip and bank of transistors not use.This is for convert dc 300 V to home frequency ( 50 or 60 Hz). This is no need for exp.In empty invertor space must acomodate CDI capacitor...
This is all for begining...
If need help for technical explanation,don't hesitate to contact me.
Telecomm eng: Kole
Belgrade, Serbia
Thank you Alpeko for that link, it helps!
@gmeast
Am I understanding this right - your voltage multiplier is consisted of 8 caps (each rated at 100fm 400V !!!) and 2 diodes (1000V 3A) ? If I am reading this right that would mean that you have 800uF 630V capacitor bank there. Which turns to be 158.76 Joules of energy. And your dump cap is 168.1 mJ. So, the ratio between the two is 100:1. I'm asking you this because it would mean that my cap bank of 6 x 1uF 630V caps is not nearly enough to supply my 1uF 630V dump cap (6:1 ratio). So, did you use this ratio on purpose, or is it arbitrary? Thanks in advance!
update illustration of VexUs 6.2
Hi all,
Thought I'd post a more complete illustration of the exact VexUs circuit I been running in my Bug.
Greg
Hey Stefan, when are we going to be able to post pictures again?
Here's the link:
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/VW/VexUs_6_2.jpg
For gmeast,
Thank you for posting oscilator circuit.In my country standard for mains voltage is 220V/50Hz.
I want use 2x12V/220V~ transformer.How much power is enough for transformer in VA.Did you measure curent and total power.My idea is : increase secundar voltage to 250 - 300 V,because I have possibility for wind new transformer.I not planing use voltage multiplier.
Thank you
Alpeko.
For gmeast,
Thank you very much for info about transformer.On Panacea I see diferent inverter power.My opinion is that 50W is enough for CDI plasma.When I testing " pigybacked" hybrid plasma,my spark gap is only 1-2mm with Bosch ignition coil.When I testing CDI only,4.7 uF cap charged on 350 V and discharged on coil, spark is much bigger,about 10 -12 mm.And plasma efect is better.I must reverse HV diodes (35 pcs of 1N5408) in this mode.With or without protecting diodes, spark is 10 mm.With join diodes plasma efect starting.When I testing stock ignition,only negative voltage produce spark and plasma.ON this mode I must reverse polarity of cap and HV diodes.Spark gap or spark is only 1-2 mm.In both tests is same cap 4.7uF/400V electrolytic.What you think about high voltage diferences ?
Thank you.
Alpeko
Hi gmeast,
Yes, in modern cd ignition system is 1uF capacitor,and 300-500 Volts.But my target is working plasma.
For this I want testing diferent circuits.In this moment I don't know which system is the best.Yours experiences and others who build and test plasma spark is very valuable for me.
Thank you again Greg.
Alpeko
Hi djzissis,
Very smart idea.Higher voltage is better.I also want make one osc. with 2x12/230V,because in my country 220 V ~ is mains standard.When testing your plasma spark,please post on this forum experiments result.
This mpg improvements is very important parameter for other members.
Thank you again, and all the best.
Alpeko
.
@ Greg
Greg.... I would like to ask you something..!
How many watts does the oscillator draw on full load.?
I am going to test some capacity range on the plasma circuit (after the resistor) and I don't want to burn out the oscillator.... ;D
I thing I am going to test from 1μF to 10 or more μF.
What do you say.?
Thanks in advance, and all the best,
Zissis!!
Hi Zis,
The transformer I'm using is rated for 24 VA, but that is for its normal use as a step down transformer but I use that anyway even for it turned around in our use here.
As long as I can cool the 3055 transistors and the transformer I can draw continuous 36 Watts. It is running at around 90 Hz. I am going to play around with different caps soon to see If I can optimize and find the best frequency for this transformer and load.
On the test bench I am consuming 60 Watts for 48 Watts output. Not bad for such a simple circuit. At rest the circuit draws 12 Watts
On your proto-board ... the double rows upper and lower are just isolated groups of 5 contacts, or are they 8 separate right-left busses, 2 lower right & left and 2 upper right & left?
Hvala Alpeko, sada mi je jasnije. Usput, da li cu brze napuniti kondenzator sa niskom voltazom i visokom amperazom ili obrnuto? Tj. kako cu brze da ga napunim?
Hvala na odgovoru!
Thank you for explanation Alpeko! It makes much more sense now. By the way, do I need higher current in order to fill-up the capacitor or higher voltage? Which way do I fill the cap faster?
Thank you for the answer!
Hi Greg,
Yes it is theory.Please give us more practical experiences about increasig mpg, or how much you improve mpg.Which method is practical for water injection ?Did you test which point is better for conect protecting diodes.On side spark plugs,or on distributor.And how many diodes need.In my test on desk I conect only 5-8 pcs 1N 5408 without problem ?? I think that one diode per kilovolt is enough,but working(on test desk),on couple diodes ?
If you conect 300V on distributor side did you change HV cables? If you use solid wire HV cables,RFI is much higher ?Did you think about noise supresion circuit?And my last question:How much plasma in practical improve mpg,in percent ??
Thank you again.
Alpeko.
@djzissis
Excellent results buddy! Maybe you overflowed the engine with water, maybe you should have used the I.V. dripping system, like gmeast did. That would have significantly reduced the amount of water in the engine. Either way, experimenting is more worth than any theory. That's why your work is precious to all of us. Thank you again!
@Alpeko
This is how I see things. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Thank you again ;)
FORMULA (taken from http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/calc/calcchrg.php):
Charge: Q = CV where C is the capacitance in Farads, V is the voltage across the capacitor in Volts and Q is the charge measured in coulombs (C)
I calculated that my dump cap has 880uC (micro Coulombs) of charge 400V x 2.2uF = 880uC
And we know that 1 Ampere is 1 Coulomb per second (1A=1Cx1s), so I calculated that at 5000 rpm the spark fires 10.000 times, which means it fires 10.000/60=167 times every second. The total charge released in one second at 5000 rpm is 167x880uC=0.147A. So this is a sort of peak power for most engines. Barely anyone uses higher rpm. Anyhow, we have Amperage and Voltage (remember, my dump cap is 400V), so by multiplying the numbers we get 400V x 0.147A = 58.8W.
So, we need one resistor (commonly known as R1, here on forum) that has a power rating of approx 50-60W.
500 Ohms is chosen, I believe to limit the current to less than 1A >>> 450V (capacitor bank) / 500 Ohm = 0.9A (max current going to dump cap - C1).
Again, this is how I interpret the diagram gmeast shared with us. The final verdict will come from those who know more than I do about electronics.
@demios,
Very nice calculations.Yes resistor R1 is only for current limitting.This protect capacitor from high charging current.You very smart calculate inverter power for this job !!
But, for more practical result ask gmeast to explain you.This schematic is only one from more similar.
For best result and good plasma you need enough time for testing every component.
@djzissis,
Dear friend from Greece.Water is not suittable for ICE.You must vaporize or atomize water,and in this state mix in air intake.
Thank you very much for try.
Best reg to all.
Alpeko.
Hi demios.
Answer:
There is no such distinction as between an AC or DC capacitor.
If you rectify an AC, the voltage will still vary from zero to the peak voltage. In order to filter it to a constant voltage, you add a capacitor across it. When the AC is rectified by a diode and sufficiently filtered by a capacitor, then it becomes DC.
A capacitor can be used in series to pass an AC signal (a capacitor used this way is called an AC coupling capacitor, or a DC blocking capacitor).
A capacitor can be used in parallel across an AC signal to attenuate the AC voltage while allowing the DC voltage to develop (a capacitor used this way is called a bypass capacitor).
In each case, they are all capacitors. The same capacitor used in different ways takes the name of the way it was used.
If there will be a high alternating current, a high current capability capacitor might be needed. If the voltage across the capacitor may be + ot -, then a non-polarized one must be used. If it is always one polarity, then an electrolytic capacitor can be used to reduce cost and size.
Hope this helps!
Alpeko
I have some reservations about the video Luc...in particular that white panel covering the lower portion of his apparatus.
If the device is patent protected, I cannot think of any reason to hide his work...unless the video was done prior to securing the patent.
It seem there's always something doesn't it.
Good to see you back here.
Regards...
Thanks for your comment Cap-Z-ro
Yes!... there's always something ;D
Let's see if we can find someone to translate some of this.
Luc
The water and plasma is a dead horse , just concentrate on some better fuel atomizer or better sparkplug for a normal non-water engine .
It may be because you are somekind of social engineer . Seriously I wonder if you are not deliberatly being totally daft , everything that ever came from you is nit-wit counter-intel work designed to steer the masses into a vortex of nothingness.
Dear dankie,
I see you still follow my topics and I'm puzzled as to why you would since all your posts have been negative bashing :-\
I have deleted your post before but this time I'll let everyone see it.
If what I freely share bothers you so much!... then why would you check up on it or even take the time to write a post ???
If you have found a better working Technology, then please feel free to use this topic to demonstrate what you have. Just keep in mind to demonstrate your device by pictures or preferably a video to which you carefully explain how your technology works. I will not except a theory or a debate on a theory in this topic.
The floor is yours
Sincerely.
Luc
Water as fuel is not a dead horse , its your plasma idea for water as fuel that is a dead horse , I now see you are mad @ me because you just realized that .
dankie, please stop trolling, you fail at faking real interest and most can easily see through your facade.
Plasma is hardly a dead horse, it is difficult to study and manipulate and it is not well understood. Hardly good enough reasons to drop it (unless you are too lazy to get up and actually do something other than waste people's time making pointless comments and trying to stop people from doing research...).
How old are you?
Its really simple the way I think , I look @ this from the raw doability of something and its overall potential . Any idea that doesnt fall into this category I try to railroad , its that simple . At this moment I can see that only Stanley Meyers work is a solution , especially now .
I dont care about your emotions or your opinion , I dont care if I crush your dreams or break your heart . I look @ the facts and come up with my own conclusion , and I am right almost everytime . I railroad somebody and the OU sommunity is better off .
Its really simple the way I think , I look @ this from the raw doability of something and its overall potential . Any idea that doesnt fall into this category I try to railroad , its that simple . At this moment I can see that only Stanley Meyers work is a solution , especially now .
I look @ the facts and come up with my own conclusion , and I am right almost everytime . I railroad somebody and the OU sommunity is better off .
Hi aquapulser,
I am not too sure why you are posting your product here as all of us have been sharing our research and technology free of charge.
This maybe a way to advertise your product but this is a Free Public Forum?
I will have to check with Stefan (Forum Moderator) as I'm not sure what the rules are with this kind of situation.
I have no problem with those who want to do business with this technology but It may not be appropriate to use this Public Forum to do so.
Let me check and see.
Luc
Hello everyone
We are open source engineers and our day jobs are in IT and Electronics Engineering. We specialize in taking a pie in the sky concept from black board to production and we have prototyped a plasma spark device for the open source community. This is our two cent contribution for the open source energy community.
Please check out the videos of our prototype Radiant Plasma 4700 in HD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuNvuPMGu6c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCJzqh5au_c
Folks we have 10 protoypes for purchase...protoyping a Plasma spark unit has been a very expensive proposition not to mention challenging especially when it came to miniaturization and achieving 97% charging efficiency. Our primary goal was to get researchers a low cost device so they can start working on alternative fuels, HHO and study the plasma spark effect rather than struggle with expensive large capacitor charging circuits and diode banks. No more fried inverters....no more inverters period... we can truly say this is a plasma ignition researchers dream device.
email: admin@aquapulser.com if you are interested in preordering a prototype. We plan to protoype additional units and auction them on ebay as we have to eventually recover our initial prototyping costs.
Interested plasma spark researchers, please post this on all the other HHO plasma spark research forums...Guys forgive us for not spending too much time on online forums..there are just so many forums discussing this topic and related topics....please do understand, we spend our day jobs working on electronics and engineering related projects so we try to make sure our hobbies have as little to do with electronics or engineering as possible. We definitely felt we could make life easier for open source researchers in providing a value added plasma research device using our industry expertise and this is our professional contribution.
Our site will be up soon. Thanks for your time.
Hello everyone
We are open source engineers and our day jobs are in IT and Electronics Engineering. We specialize in taking a pie in the sky concept from black board to production and we have prototyped a plasma spark device for the open source community. This is our two cent contribution for the open source energy community.
Please check out the videos of our prototype Radiant Plasma 4700 in HD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuNvuPMGu6c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCJzqh5au_c
Folks we have 10 protoypes for purchase...protoyping a Plasma spark unit has been a very expensive proposition not to mention challenging especially when it came to miniaturization and achieving 97% charging efficiency. Our primary goal was to get researchers a low cost device so they can start working on alternative fuels, HHO and study the plasma spark effect rather than struggle with expensive large capacitor charging circuits and diode banks. No more fried inverters....no more inverters period... we can truly say this is a plasma ignition researchers dream device.
email: admin@aquapulser.com if you are interested in preordering a prototype. We plan to protoype additional units and auction them on ebay as we have to eventually recover our initial prototyping costs.
Interested plasma spark researchers, please post this on all the other HHO plasma spark research forums...Guys forgive us for not spending too much time on online forums..there are just so many forums discussing this topic and related topics....please do understand, we spend our day jobs working on electronics and engineering related projects so we try to make sure our hobbies have as little to do with electronics or engineering as possible. We definitely felt we could make life easier for open source researchers in providing a value added plasma research device using our industry expertise and this is our professional contribution.
Our site will be up soon. Thanks for your time.
Hi aquapulser,
I am not too sure why you are posting your product here as all of us have been sharing our research and technology free of charge.
This maybe a way to advertise your product but this is a Free Public Forum?
Luc
Hi aquapulser,
... not only that but I have not seen your system applied to a distributed ignition spark. A large part of our research and design has been aimed at a "piggy back" concept. We don't need a CDI coil driver either ... it just rides on top of the existing ignition system It looks to me like you need one '4700' per plug which makes the total power consumption look ... not so good and not better than the basic VexUs system which is only 50 Watts to run a 4 cylinder engine at 4500 RPM. But the 4700 @ 26 Watts times 4 is ????
Nice packaging and guitar grinding though.
Greg
Hi aquapulser,
... not only that but I have not seen your system applied to a distributed ignition spark. A large part of our research and design has been aimed at a "piggy back" concept. We don't need a CDI coil driver either ... it just rides on top of the existing ignition system It looks to me like you need one '4700' per plug which makes the total power consumption look ... not so good and not better than the basic VexUs system which is only 50 Watts to run a 4 cylinder engine at 4500 RPM. But the 4700 @ 26 Watts times 4 is ????
Nice packaging and guitar grinding though.
Greg
Hey Luc,
With respect, I can see why they are charging, I have been building an aquapulser circuit (the diagram is off their site) and though it seems relatively simple, it has actually cost a lot of time (and money, though I am using a lot of used parts to cut costs) just to redesign the circuit to my own specs and then to get that circuit actually designed into a printable PCB. Though I am not talking of you (thank you for your many contributions :) ), many people on this forum get angry when someone wants to charge for their invention, the majority of these people are those that do not realize how much it costs a person to build something even quite simple while keeping it clear and simple enough for the average person to understand. Many inventors of these kind of devices have jobs and not much spare time and commonly have little money so hats off to them. I cannot afford to buy something like this so could likewise be unhappy but maybe a better idea would be to do our best to donate to people like these guys, if we can, when it is open sourced (I'm pretty sure it will be up on their site).
I have no training or even knowledge of electrical engineering so I have made the stuff I have worked on (I will open source it) as clear as possible for someone similar so that building will be easy, but I am also flat broke so though for example I will open source my work and will not request money, any help would be appreciated. Same applies to the Aquapulser folks, if I could afford to, I would buy a unit to make a contribution to their continued efforts.
:)
....
Our pricing will be around $350 just barely covers the basic production costs, from circuit design, enclosure design, Surface mount assembly, HV encapsulation, custom machined connectors, and high quality components etc. We are under the impression that most HHO plasma spark researchers know the cost of actually prototyping a plasma spark device.
Thanks for your comments everyone.
We look forward and hope to answer all questions that may arise once our site is up.
Plasma ignition has been around for quite a while now. The basic working concept behind the unit we prototyped is based on the following patent:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3788293.html
Other similar patents
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4029072.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4223656.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4366801.html
There are also other patents and they will be listed on our website.
The key here is that the charging technology has been minaturized using SMT technology and a custom programmed microprocessor to optimize a flyback capacitor charging circuit. The charging technology is cutting edge and that is also the reason why in spite of all the patents out there, there are hardly any plasma spark products. The issue has always been miniaturizing the charging technology and power consumption, which is possible today because of SMD components and microprocessors.
we would like to make it abundantly clear that we are not here for profit by any means. We are not new to the OU community, we sold and auctioned off high quality gated PWMS because a lot of researchers didnt have gated PWMs and we never posted any ads. We saved and used the funds to further R&D and as a result the Plasma Spark generator is the next HHO research device.
Please read the posts by a gentleman by the name of Shane Jackson
http://hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=2093&page=3
The average cost of building the current open source plasma spark vexus circuit...which is conceptually virtually identical to the expired patents outlined above is around $400. And this $400 does not include the inverter. We are all Shane Jacksons here...kudos to him at least he knows how much it costs to actually get just a basic open source circuit prototyped.
Our pricing will be around $350 just barely covers the basic production costs, from circuit design, enclosure design, Surface mount assembly, HV encapsulation, custom machined connectors, and high quality components etc. We are under the impression that most HHO plasma spark researchers know the cost of actually prototyping a plasma spark device. If we had actually charged for the actual engineering and design input, the unit price would be well over $500.
Credit goes to Luc for having discovered that a high current plasma spark explodes water mist.
Our goal is simply to make affordable plasma spark units for open source researchers to see if the plasma technology can actually run a car on water, HHO or even 60% Ethanol 40% water and if it can supplement existing HHO systems and other systems under ongoing research like Stanley Meyers etc.
We have no personal attachment to any technology or process, and we feel it is the public's right to test it out for themselves and if it doesn't work keep moving on. Our way of contributing back is to take bold risks in prototyping by investing capital and we invested all of it in bring out a production model that will help everyone move forward with plasma ignition technology and achieve the broader objectives of a true and lasting energy independence.
We would like the broader public who are not OU members or part of the open source culture to test the plasma spark effect. Gmeast has claimed excellent mileage gains...lets see if others can better it. Those who are great skilled mechanics (unlike us) but have little electronics experience to build a plasma spark circuit can benefit greatly from our work, and that is the best way to move forward if the open source engineering paradigm does indeed work!
Hello
The RPG 4700 will fire across any distributed spark system. Only one unit per vehicle is required, not 4. This unit is highly energy efficient and does not consume more than 30 watts. We have attached the wiring diagrams for installation on a vehicle.
The CDI was just to demonstrate how the unit would work with a high voltage input from an ignition coil. The CDI driver also allowed us to demonstrate the plasma spark cycling through frequencies. Yes the RPG 4700 will piggy back on all positive HVDC ignition systems.
I can now move on to batteries and motors ...
I know what you mean about no money ;)... for well over a year I have had no income or savings to live off of. It is thanks to the generosity of my Girl friend Lucie who is providing me with Free room and board to help continue the research. Most of my experiments I do is also with used stuff I salvage from garbage I pickup.
Ironic, isn't it, the people with the least money and resources working to accomplish what those with more easily could if they put their mind to it. In a way though, I'm glad that I'm not rich as it has taught me to be a lot more resourceful and creative, you think out of the box only when you are forced to :)
With the change to lcd and plasma screens there are a lot of CRT's around and they are a fantastic source for parts.
When I do have to buy stuff I get it from Ebay though I do my best to avoid Chinese stuff as it is dangerously unreliable. A really good, cheap, and quick to ship Ebay seller is "thaishopetc" I bought several IRFP460 MOSFETs at $1.20 apiece instead of paying $26 apiece at the local rip-off shop (though I do encourage buying local if you can; good for the economy).
Back to the RPG4700 though! Close to the end of the following video says it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCJzqh5au_c&feature=channel_page
This thing can do it's magic with a 9 volt battery, no small feat! :o
Sir "Aquapulsers": Thank you very much for this great contribution ;D... For the last several months, plasma and using plasma for seperating water molecules seems to have hit a roadblock and has just been plain stuck. The excellent circuits that many dedicated people have been working on only seem to go so far, and we have been having trouble moving onto the next neccesary stage of this technology (which is no surprise considering that resources and cash are limited for most experimenters here).
In my opinion, after seeing the videos and the excellently thought-out unit, the work that must have gone into, and the performance of the RPG4700, I think this is the next step up in plasma technology progress and it deserves attention. Though I haven't heard of anyone having the chance to test it, it has already been built and enclosed so that it can be connected easily inside a vehicle (as they showed in the above post) which straightaway removes a lot of hassle and money for the average person.
What I'm seeing in the videos is that the spark is not just bright, but very broad and powerful which is exactly where we need to be going.
I wish I could afford one (the price is more than fair for the work accomplished though), I'm going try to scrape together the funds to buy one as even if it maybe isn't the full anwer in the water-for-fuel it definitely is a leap in the right direction and I think more can be accomplished by people experimenting with it and by the Aquapulser team.
I hope that many will buy these, we can see that the money would be put to good use.
Back to the RPG4700 though! Close to the end of the following video says it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCJzqh5au_c&feature=channel_page
This thing can do it's magic with a 9 volt battery, no small feat!
Thanks for your comments everyone.
We look forward and hope to answer all questions that may arise once our site is up.
Plasma ignition has been around for quite a while now. The basic working concept behind the unit we prototyped is based on the following patent:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3788293.html
Other similar patents
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4029072.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4223656.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4366801.html
There are also other patents and they will be listed on our website.
The key here is that the charging technology has been minaturized using SMT technology and a custom programmed microprocessor to optimize a flyback capacitor charging circuit. The charging technology is cutting edge and that is also the reason why in spite of all the patents out there, there are hardly any plasma spark products. The issue has always been miniaturizing the charging technology and power consumption, which is possible today because of SMD components and microprocessors.
we would like to make it abundantly clear that we are not here for profit by any means. We are not new to the OU community, we sold and auctioned off high quality gated PWMS because a lot of researchers didnt have gated PWMs and we never posted any ads. We saved and used the funds to further R&D and as a result the Plasma Spark generator is the next HHO research device.
Please read the posts by a gentleman by the name of Shane Jackson
http://hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=2093&page=3
The average cost of building the current open source plasma spark vexus circuit...which is conceptually virtually identical to the expired patents outlined above is around $400. And this $400 does not include the inverter. We are all Shane Jacksons here...kudos to him at least he knows how much it costs to actually get just a basic open source circuit prototyped.
Our pricing will be around $350 just barely covers the basic production costs, from circuit design, enclosure design, Surface mount assembly, HV encapsulation, custom machined connectors, and high quality components etc. We are under the impression that most HHO plasma spark researchers know the cost of actually prototyping a plasma spark device. If we had actually charged for the actual engineering and design input, the unit price would be well over $500.
Credit goes to Luc for having discovered that a high current plasma spark explodes water mist.
Our goal is simply to make affordable plasma spark units for open source researchers to see if the plasma technology can actually run a car on water, HHO or even 60% Ethanol 40% water and if it can supplement existing HHO systems and other systems under ongoing research like Stanley Meyers etc.
We have no personal attachment to any technology or process, and we feel it is the public's right to test it out for themselves and if it doesn't work keep moving on. Our way of contributing back is to take bold risks in prototyping by investing capital and we invested all of it in bring out a production model that will help everyone move forward with plasma ignition technology and achieve the broader objectives of a true and lasting energy independence.
We would like the broader public who are not OU members or part of the open source culture to test the plasma spark effect. Gmeast has claimed excellent mileage gains...lets see if others can better it. Those who are great skilled mechanics (unlike us) but have little electronics experience to build a plasma spark circuit can benefit greatly from our work, and that is the best way to move forward if the open source engineering paradigm does indeed work!
Is this the latest Vexus circuit?
Does the PCB come with parts list, schematic and soldering instructions?
Interesting! Did you just hear the Obama speach live a minut ago (2:00 EST april 22 2009) :o Speaking about energy: "there is no magical energy source...yet" "there might be some kid out there working on it in a lab now, but there isn't anything, yet"
Whoh! We're starting to hit the "radar"
Keep up the great work gentlemen! That is light at the end of the tunnel you see!!
1stCor127
With respect, I can see why they are charging, I have been building an aquapulser circuit (the diagram is off their site) and though it seems relatively simple, it has actually cost a lot of time (and money, though I am using a lot of used parts to cut costs) just to redesign the circuit to my own specs and then to get that circuit actually designed into a printable PCB.
:)
Here you go, this one (essentially, it is a PWM) is apparently based on a Lawton circuit, I've built my first PCB prototype and it works, I have a few small quirks to work out, though I think they are due to a faulty pot.
I have put a 2 way switch between pins 4 and 8 in the oscillator section of the diagram, so that I can sync multiple units together, I want to be able to deliver more than just a single gated square wave. This project cost me a lot of time and money in bits and bobs as it is the first circuit I have ever built, but if you shop carefully, it can actually be quite inexpensive to build. I have made a PCB design so that you can make your own PCB with a laser printer very quickly, I have a little more testing to do to make sure that the printable version works properly and is correct, but when I am done I wil publish it.
PLEASE NOTE: This circuit diagram is NOT of the RPG4700 unit the Aquapulser people sell, this is an older circuit for something else they used to sell.
There are many different vexus circuits out there. This is the latest ones available that does not take Greg’s approach to using an oscillator input (due to space limitation,
.........................................................
Shane
DOH!! I thought you were referring to the CDI item that they have now... and not the Lawton PWM.....LOL My fault.
OK... not to start any heated debate or ruffle and feathers ;)
The Aquapulser seems to work great... and looks even better then it works..... ;D
And $350 does not sound to bad....
But.. how does it preform under cylinder pressure?! That is the million dollar question. And i know its still new, but how about some real world data from driving. You can't tell me that they haven't even tried to test it out on a car yet, and got data form the test... that's not how R&D works.
Actually there is ONE VexUs circuit out there ... the one I originated. There are versions (few) of that one. It required using some sort of pump (oscillator), inverter, DC-DC converter or equiv at the front end to get the charge as they all need.
Thought I'd clear that up.
Greg
Here is a short video with crappy audio.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajsf3ytnNKQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajsf3ytnNKQ)
If you are wondering.... Lysol. I think part of the problem is I did not have the plug grounded very well. All my vice grips are in my spray foam truck.... I may do another video when my new plugs arrive.
Thanks Greg for taking the time to post this Spark Plug wear update of Robin David's Firestorm replicas used with your VexUs circuit and steam intake.
Obviously your circuit is not destroying the plugs as some have been experiencing as they seem to be intact. I cannot detect any wear :-\... can you ???
Congratulations ;D as you are the only one I know of who has achieved this.
Hope to see more results soon.
Thanks for sharing
Luc
Hi Greg,
Thank you for explanation.I think that GEET is very good for better MPG.Why not use for water mist,cheap Chinese ,piezoelectric mistmakers.I try couple of this and obtain with plasma spark plug and mistmaker on 36v,about 40% BETTER mpg.Look on Alibaba for types mistmakers.
Happy work.
Alpeko.
Hi Luc,
I never became familiar with any of the "s1r9a9m9" stuff. Can you please steer me to the original postings ... if possible?
How are you doing these days? I'm getting some interesting results from my Bug since I changed the intake. I am getting a much better introduction of steam into the engine than I ever had. You know I still have the complete electronics and distributor I first built that was based on the original DPDT relay demo of the water spark plug ... mosfet switches and all. I'm thinking about putting that back in.
Greg
Damn Greg
Sad to read your last post. I have followed every post on this forum with your project.
My wife's Son is a mechanic down here, and, I am trying to get him to understand your project and rig up a system on his car. I believe he can get a nice bit of income helping others down here.
Is there a way to stay in contact, in case I need to ask a question or two ???
I am on a fixed income and had hoped to help with donations to these researchers, but, things are bad down here, and the Govt. is allowing rates to go up, in this recession ??? How the hell people are supposed to live, is a real problem. However, extermination is what the powers to be are looking for. It's ALL greed, except for fine folks like you and the others that post all their projects on these forums.
Thank You for sharing your project, and, good luck in the future. Harold in Costa Rica
In my test I use myself constructed 450V,dc converter.I use SG-3525 chip with ferite core transformer,and tr IRFZ-44N in driver side,in half bridge config.For protectiion I use 50 pcs.of 1N-5408 diodes.Ignition coils is stock,spark plug is NGK without resistor,cables is RG-6 foam coaxial.Mist maker is 36V,placed in engine intake manifold.Others is same.
TPU experiment (video)
9v battery powering 100 watt light bulb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eX8z6JA1tM
fget2a
quote:
dreamyear: Congratulations for successful water engine replication!!!!
----------------------------
Where??
Thanks
Chet
http://designstudioexpress.com/simple_setup_rev3.pngLOL....not accurate?
This circuit is not accurate. more than one piece of circuit board can work.
Unfortunately, use a compiler (software).
LOL....not accurate?
Thats my design, my site...it does work! :)
The only problem was prolonged diode life and voltage leakage....
JULY 5th 2008!!!
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5024.msg110213#msg110213
seems like a lifetime ago....
XBOX Hacker: you have one "runnin on water engine"?
I think not only diodes.
fgab2a
This design works to the effect of: creating a 300VDC(+) "Plasma Spark" discharge on a spark plug, facilitated by the HV discharge form the ignition source! SO, does it work... YES!!!
Like i said, the HV blocking blocking diodes gave me problems with leakage... so i went with a 4th design based off of this one in conjunction with a design from Cap70....
This design works to the effect of: creating a 300VDC(+) "Plasma Spark" discharge on a spark plug, facilitated by the HV discharge form the ignition source! SO, does it work... YES!!!
Like i said, the HV blocking blocking diodes gave me problems with leakage... so i went with a 4th design based off of this one in conjunction with a design from Cap70....
Hi... !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLwZ8a3uCHI
successfull plasma ignition replication.... working engine with water.
2 stroke engine. if wants, he speaks.
Hi fget2a,
thanks for bringing dreamyear's video demo to this topic.
This is the first time I see this video. It would be nice if dreamyear posted some details as to what charge voltage and cap size he used.
Myself I stopped experimenting on this over a year ago as the ball had started to roll and I could see that more knowledgeable users would develop this to a finer art like the Aquapulser Team did: http://www.aquapulser.com/performance_ignition/index.html
@xbox hacker, glad to see you're still around ;)
Luc
@fget2a
Nice demo ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FksWsEb7zig
@Luc
I'm still lurking in the shadows...lol
LOL....not accurate?
Thats my design, my site...it does work! :)
The only problem was prolonged diode life and voltage leakage....
JULY 5th 2008!!!
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5024.msg110213#msg110213
seems like a lifetime ago....
I have tried the first circuit with a chevy igniton coil from a distributor cap. There is a small spark when the diodes are disconnected, but when the diodes are connected it seems to be shorting across the diodes. Could it be the ignition coil?
Free energy (DreamYear HHO circuit)
back emf and transformer charges 2nd battery...all u have to do is swap the battery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-q0gcLNcUQ
http://img.blog.yahoo.co.kr/ybi/1/5b/42/dreamyear44/folder/3/img_3_204_1?1279018300.jpg
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7892/dreamyearhho.jpg
Hi dreamyear,
I would recommend two things.
One is, you should be posting this in an HHO topic. However, since this topic is not active anymore I will leave it here for now. However, if it gets much attention it will have to move to a new topic.
The second thing is, your second charge battery connection I believe has a problem. If you want to collect the collapsing field of the transformer primary you should connect it Bedini style. See the edited schematic I did for you.
You should do a test of how many amps is drawn when the complete circuit is in operation and then another test but remove the transformer and charge batteries from the circuit to see if the current stays the same. If the current is less then with the transformer attached then there is no gain. If it is the same then you have something ;)
All the best to you
Luc
But the video is only 2:58 long!?
But the video is only 2:58 long!?
Hi,
I, also, am trying to find the video he speaks of.
But the video is only 2:58 long!?
This is pretty amazing! Sharing
Hello, guys,
I am newbee to this forum, although have been watching for a while.
The experiment from gotoluc, which is posted on the first page (power inverter + bridge + 10diodes + ignition coil + switch + sparkplug), I suceeded: I did attach to 220V, took 450v/100uF capacitator, the coil from Accel (high performance racing coil, the 140010, from ebay.com, told to be 50kV). The plasma effect was obvious. Fine :)
Then I look around to put it on some car.
My problem & question: within the ignition system, the distributor is giving pulses within '-' cable and not '+' (so '+' is always on and ground is pulsed). How should I adopt the gotoluc electronics, to apply the circuit to car? Should I use some MOSFET (?which?) to open '+' to diode's imput as soon as ground is on?............the answer is already hanging, please give me a link.
...................................................................
and the last question, has somebody tried using this ignition + HHO+ warm/hot WaterVapor?
hope somebody will help me :)
I am in Germany, Bremen - so if there are some "the guys" around, let me know :)
http://www.overunity.de/
Chet
I did exactly that until attention shifted to the 'piggyback' form of the circuit. ...
Here are the ciruits I built and tested plus put into my VW Bug.
thank you gmeast for the nice suggestion :). I took look at the schematics. Seems you have continuous +120V switched to spark plugs throug those NTE517 diodes, right? I see, you have lot of txt in Panacea - I will get through those schematics&photos&videos first and post here, if have further questions.
When the discharge mosfet fires the 47uF cap at the coil, a pathway is formed for a large DC current (coming from the 470uF cap at the FWB) to burst forth in the spark plug gap
Hi everyone,
it has been a while since I have shared new information.
I have been contacted by a YouTube user: theWIKWIPmaker of a new spark plug design that he has invented. He claims this would greatly help at solving the missing puzzle to make an engine work on water.
It looks promising to me :)
Here is his video demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xnX71ydGpU&feature=email
Please share your thoughts and or replication attempts.
Thanks
Luc
Why don't you just use SCR instead?Can you suggest one?
Looks interesting and from reading the first few pages it sounds promising. Has anyone got an engine to run using this circuit so far?
I'm second year electronics and have not seen a chain of diode like that. It that to increase the voltage capacity?
I will try to make the sparks without the relays.
iam thinking to use this instead of the scr http://eu.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=g5ciJ0jwZaFPYkHVnREaNg==
Do you think is going to work?
Michael
Hey Guys
Check the plasma ignition system I have built.
http://www.youtube.com/awatch?v=peO1afaBX5E
I have put it up on ebay for any one interested who wishes to purchase a kit. I am sure many you have seen the earlier posts by aquapulser.com, ecoignition.com etc Its way more cheaper than the over priced plasma ignition modules sold there which I believe is a total rip off. $450 for the smallest twin cylinder engine you gotta be kidding :o :o :o
So I decided to build my own plasma kit much more reasonably priced module with more features for researchers and those running hho systems and those just wishing to save some gas.
I have listed the module on ebay...search for gorilla plasma ignition and you should see it. Here is the link also.
http://cgi.ebay.com/GORILLA-PLASMA-IGNITION-HHO-FUEL-SAVER-RACING-MPG-GAIN-/260781025211?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb7c2a7bb#ht_2846wt_1139
If you have a genuine research project that requires this system, let me know I would be more than happy to give members of this forum a discount. Send me a PM or send me a message through ebay or youtube.
thanks guys.
good luck plasmagorilla with the beautifully designed plasma kit. I wonder how it would work when coupled with an HHO system. Has anybody tried to see how much more gas savings can be accomplished by combining the two?
I personally have not tested this with an HHO system however just plain plasma ignition increases mileage from 22mpg to 30mpg. That is quite significant...but yes I would like to partner with any professional HHO system sellers or those who have a decent working system already installed to try this out.
Thanks
I personally have not tested this with an HHO system however just plain plasma ignition increases mileage from 22mpg to 30mpg. That is quite significant...but yes I would like to partner with any professional HHO system sellers or those who have a decent working system already installed to try this out.
Thanks
I personally have not tested this with an HHO system however just plain plasma ignition increases mileage from 22mpg to 30mpg. That is quite significant...but yes I would like to partner with any professional HHO system sellers or those who have a decent working system already installed to try this out.I can test it on my car with HHO installed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIXsKfGVHEY
Thanks
I can test it on my car with HHO installed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIXsKfGVHEY
sorry for my english ;-)
You've tried to rev the engine more than idle?yes , of cource! I drive 1 year with HHO.
Thanks for sharing
Hello all,
From that I see in the video the heat of the electric arc occuring at the sparkplug causes the water to split into hydrogen and oxygen which then burns.
There is no question a lighting bolt (ie arc across the plug points) will split the water and burn the seperated gasses. However that tiny mist to the spark plug would need be greater in volume if greater forces are to be acheived.
Water powered engines work on the same principal of splitting water. I would much llike to see how much wattage is required to do the split, and what pressures are obtained from the burning gases, so they can be calculated to KW or Horsepower.
Cheers Peter
- he was using "dry cells"
- he could produce an huge quantity of HHO (you bet he should).
- he generated 50.000 volts but that the use of this voltage was "complicated"
- he got his idea partly from the Internet
- he was OK to receive me and to "take me for a ride" but that I would not
be able to see the engine (even from a long way off...).
Hello Tagor, Ive been through all the posts and videos but cant get more information than uses X voltage which means nothing. Watts be the thing. Real easy to use sea water and CO2 to make electricity. Royal Navy in the 18th Centuary trialed Ammonia, we replaced the Ammonia with CO2.
If you can score the wattage from his highly complicated thing. I shall post the generator, using no more than sea water and CO2.
Cheers Peter
Hello tagor,
Thanks for the info.
Any child can take a dry cell battery and spilt oxygen and hydrogen out of water. All you need is two electrodes. Doing it with sunlight alone was mastered yeasr ago by CSIRO Australia. I thought by the carry on he was making, he had mastered how to get the electricity for free. Which is what I am banging on about.
Cheers Peter
Easy as falling off a log backwards. Bigger the engine, more gas. Process of gathering dont change.
Hello Tagor,
Dont know what a euro is! Australian!
No we cant sell you one, but can give you one. Its listed Open Technology
We dont work to Horsepower we work to capacity, that is to say the air intake per second.
There is whats called a snuff point, that is where combustion chokes out it occuring.
Re Boat. I am interested to know once the batteries have no charge, does the boat stop ?
Looks to me he's fracturing water and to do that his alternator is not enough so he needs back up.
Personaly I think he's full of bullshit. One thing to hide the fracanator, entirely different to hide the engine!
Cheers Peter
Personaly I think he's full of bullshit.