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Author Topic: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE  (Read 1405513 times)

allcanadian

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #585 on: July 07, 2008, 06:38:39 PM »
@geovel56
Quote
The HV from the ignition coil instantaneously (or close to it) ionizes the water droplets and when hit with the higher amperage from the rectified AC/inverter part of the circut, is just like Lightening and the air molecules around the water droplet are accelerated at supersonic speeds, hence the loud bang.
This has been covered, the effect is produced even when the inverter/rectifier is disconnected from the circuit hence there is no "high amperage" required.

Quote
The reaction is just like thunder and lightening.  Ionized water droplets in the atmosphere are then hit by a strong static charge (Lightening).  The air molecules BETWEEN the water droplets are being accelerated at supersonic speeds and bumping into more water droplets, which bumps more air molecules... in a cascading effect.  The thunder we hear and feel is a sonic boom or concussion wave.
There is also an electrostatic standing wave produced preceeding the sonic boom this standing wave extending hundreds of miles past where the thunder could be heard. Which raises the question as to whether the "boom" is produced by electrostatic forces or a pressure wave or both.
We are hear to learn and seek understanding, I think everyones opinion and perspective should be heard, that is a part of the learning process the professionals of science have yet to understand. ;)

broli

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #586 on: July 07, 2008, 06:53:25 PM »
@geovel56:

Aren't you a being a bit arrogant. Your posted sounded more like "you people need to do what I like, so stop talking about things I don't like" Anyone who contributed both on the circuit or engine experiments is as valuable. You need to respect that and not get mad just because you don't like it.

ramset

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #587 on: July 07, 2008, 06:58:41 PM »
this thread gets better and better ALL CANADIAN  can you post the more efficient circuit? Chet

Lakes

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #588 on: July 07, 2008, 07:00:19 PM »
I`m just an armchair reader here, it seems to me rather than trying to get this to work with a normal ICE, which can difficult to adjust, some sort of simple piston arrangement, that would be easy to construct out of readily available parts  (maybe made of transparent materials?) would be better, so that the pressure wave could be measured and adjustments made to maximize it.

A flywheel or spring for the return stroke could be added later.

LarryC

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #589 on: July 07, 2008, 07:09:34 PM »
This has been covered, the effect is produced even when the inverter/rectifier is disconnected from the circuit hence there is no "high amperage" required.

In the circuit where the inverter/rectifier is disconnected, the LV from the cap and the HV from the Ignition coil was passed at the same time.

Even with my large cap at 690MFD using 190V, when there is no LV all you get is a thin spark.

With the LV, HV and no water, it gets a half inch white/blue plasma ball.

With the LV, HV and water, it gets a 3/4 inch white/blue/orange plasma ball.

Regards, Larry

nightlife

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #590 on: July 07, 2008, 07:11:46 PM »
 
Quote
We are hear to learn and seek understanding, I think everyones opinion and perspective should be heard, that is a part of the learning process the professionals of science have yet to understand.


 allcanadian, I think a different thread should be used to learn what the professionals of science already know.

 Please let these guys finish what they started this thread for. It was started as a way to simplify a circuit they have been designing to produce the intense spark needed to create the effect that is needed to use water to run fuel based motors on. They have already created the effect with circuits, now let them finish simplifying it.
 
This thread was not set up to find out why or how it creates the effect, it was set up to simplify a circuit they have already created that creates a effect they have already created.

kenbo0422

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #591 on: July 07, 2008, 07:25:38 PM »
I haven't been on here for over two years.  Glad to see it hasn't gotten stagnant.  Anyway...

I have skimmed the topic and came to the last page to discover what I thought was going on... no ignition.  That's perfectly OK.  It still works.

On another line, has anyone thought of using the Krupa design in the plug part????  It's supposed to spread the plasma much better, which may be all you need to gain the pressure output on the piston to make it move with some authority.

 ???

hydrocontrol

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #592 on: July 07, 2008, 07:30:05 PM »
A simple suggestion for those trying to get a motor to run. What if you remove the spark plug ground tab and just use the piston as the 'ground tab'. I would think that this would create an increasing electric arc size as the piston goes down from TDC and would help the water 'ignite, burn, turn to steam, whatever'  to push the piston down. Why confine the electrical arc to a small predetermined gap. I know when I arc weld I have to get the arc started by being very close to the item to be welded but once I get an arc started I can draw the arc back a fair amount. Seems the same idea would hold for a piston engine electrical arc. If the piston can withstand a gas explosion then a electrical arc should not effect it. Now you may have to use a slightly longer plug just as long as it does not touch the piston top but I think that this may be very effective in always getting a great electrical arc.

Shiver

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #593 on: July 07, 2008, 07:45:05 PM »
I have to defer to the guys that understand electronics here, but however I look at it, more important than the circuit is working out what is going on here?  If we put in 100w electrical, do we get out something more than 100w chemical/kinetic/potential?  If not, then what is the purpose of the thread?  Making fireworks which are fun but of no real value?  I admit I'm sitting back waiting for the electronics guys to establish how to isolate the HV/HC circuits in order that I get get on with what I can do which is building something that can use this circuit.  I'm not going to be using any 2 or 4 stroke engines either, it will be a static chamber with a couple of one way valves and the recipient will be a tesla turbine.  Maybe that's no good for running a conventional car, but it will increase understanding substantially.

More important than the circuit is understanding what the process is. From there we can go backwards and design a circuit, and forwards and design a recipient of the energy released.  If that's not clear to one and all then we're in a whirlpool.

Shiver

bumfuzzled

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #594 on: July 07, 2008, 08:04:25 PM »
For those who don't know and those who have forgotten....

S1R made a comment on one of Ossies youtube videos about being close but only being at about 10% power. He said it should be such an arc that it knocks the spark plug off the table. I think we need a huge plasma arc to get this to work in a motor and that means more power. How he's doing it with just a 400 watt inverter I haven't a clue but I think that's the key, a HUGE plasma arc.

goldenequity

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #595 on: July 07, 2008, 08:39:48 PM »
new plug...thanks to gettinwet for this one http://e3sparkplugs.com/diamondfire.htm

alan

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #596 on: July 07, 2008, 08:59:03 PM »
@geovel56
Does it matter if this is overunity or COP>1?
YES, it has to be, if it isn't, then using an electric motor would be better.
If it is, let's say only 40% efficient, you need many batteries for not so many miles.

springfield

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #597 on: July 07, 2008, 10:28:02 PM »

If there was a disassociation of water into HHO and burned, then the \\\"system\\\" would be hot, just like burning fossil fuels or burning ANYTHING.  As evidenced by Luc AND Ossie, the spark plug is barely warm.  The reason is because NOTHING is being ignited or burned!

The reaction is just like thunder and lightening.  Ionized water droplets in the atmosphere are then hit by a strong static charge (Lightening).  The air molecules BETWEEN the water droplets are being accelerated at supersonic speeds and bumping into more water droplets, which bumps more air molecules... in a cascading effect.  The thunder we hear and feel is a sonic boom or concussion wave.

This concussion wave can do work by pushing down a piston...

@geo,

There must be more to it than that. Your saying that the only energy being input is that from the spark. In turn the energy in the spark can only come from one place: the electrical supply (whether battery or mains). If thats your hypothesis, then there are FAR more efficient ways to turn electrical energy into rotational mechanical energy: for example a simple electric motor. So, physics-degreed though you may be, I think your mistaking the principle upon which this machine is operating.

-Mike

Ricardoch

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #598 on: July 07, 2008, 10:35:05 PM »
Hi all!
I realised that most people here clever enough to center on what is going on and pay little attention to armchair semantic expert engineers.
I am also an engineer, after 30 years I forgot almost everything, but what I learned is to see, analise, put my hands on the bench and confirm if it works or not, then you gan give an oppinion on your experience but no much more.

Any expert that says something is impossible is most times wrong, so dont be affected by any kind of expert violent opposition, paper is the best support for everything but the truth, that rely on facts.


Concerning power, I believe most we are giving enough power yet, in fact perhaps a little more than enough.

I got brilliant sparks, more than seen on videos (i hope videos dont do justice) but after some really nice I got power enough to melt the plug, the inverter, the bridge, and the diodes :D.

More fresh parts soon, as well as sunglasses and some bulbs on the circuit.
I realised that inverter is able to deliver enough power to melt the plug and create a metal bridge between electrodes.

Protect the circuit and yourself, there is some energy going around, and excuse if mispelling anything, I can-t see the screen nor the keyboard, (sunglasses next day)  :D.


A question
Wath is the krup plug design mentioned by kenpo???

cheers
Ri

The most difficult to learn is how much we ignore and how little we know.
Sorry for my English.

resonanceman

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #599 on: July 07, 2008, 10:51:21 PM »
Hi all!
I realised that most people here clever enough to center on what is going on and pay little attention to armchair semantic expert engineers.
I am also an engineer, after 30 years I forgot almost everything, but what I learned is to see, analise, put my hands on the bench and confirm if it works or not, then you gan give an oppinion on your experience but no much more.

Any expert that says something is impossible is most times wrong, so dont be affected by any kind of expert violent opposition, paper is the best support for everything but the truth, that rely on facts.



Welcome to  our little corner of the  forum  Ricardoch

You  got my  respect when you  wrote what is quoted above .

 :) :)



I look forward to  seeing  what   you do when your new parts arrive 


gary