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Author Topic: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE  (Read 1021462 times)

Offline Michaelpier

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2745 on: December 11, 2010, 11:07:07 PM »
Thank you lon,thats why my relays (60Amps) always freeze from the small sparks ? I will try with the inductor to see if i can eliminate those.
Quote
Why don't you just use SCR instead?
Can you suggest one?

Have in mind that my supply is 230ac to 320dc.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline lon92

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2746 on: December 12, 2010, 07:03:02 AM »
No problem...  ;D
Could you give me the part number?
Or, better yet, you could check the datasheet of your SCR at http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/.

Or, maybe, if you could, just Google - (CDI Circuit).
http://www.sportdevices.com/ignition/ignition.htm



Offline Michaelpier

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2747 on: December 12, 2010, 01:32:00 PM »
The inductor works fine. Finally is working, especially if you spray some water :D

I think i will pass the scr for now.Thanks Lon.
Now i must think what to do with it   :P

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2747 on: December 12, 2010, 01:32:00 PM »
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Offline lon92

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2748 on: December 12, 2010, 06:46:58 PM »
Glad it works!  ;D
Let me know when you got the idea... Lol!

Offline diehostusxana

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2749 on: December 15, 2010, 10:18:12 PM »
Hello guys out there :)
I'm back, have now motor (100EUR :) ), have now read the paper www.panaceauniversity.org/Water%20Spark%20Plug.pdf
that doc is simply great, superideas. Supergood autors.
I have bought a simple 1-Zylinder 4-Takt motor.
And I want to make it run with plazma spark for testing.

Could anybody suggest, how do I convert "Magnetic Pickup" inition to Plasma, without external power supply?
.) Case1: may I with original coil impulse charge some condensator and later just discharge it through external coil of CDI ignition?
.) Case2: charge with external battery 1x Cap of 200V, 1uF and put in parallel to sparplug
.) Case3: ideas?
Here my picture:

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2749 on: December 15, 2010, 10:18:12 PM »
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Offline lon92

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2750 on: December 16, 2010, 11:22:50 AM »
I done this before, but, I failed... My engine ignition timing was too advanced...
Here's what I do:

I wrap my ignition coil, just like yours in the picture, with, 60 turns of copper windings (the number was actually randomly picked).
Then, I feed the output signal through an opto-isolator.

The opto-isolator then, fed to my darlington pair, which's connected to my ignition coil.

The ignition coil will fires as the crankshaft turns. But, in my experiment, the ignition was too advanced, as I try to pull-start the engine, the recoil-rope pulled me back! Very painful.
Even if the engine was cranked, it will violently backfiring at the intake port. That was TCI of course...

You could modify it to work as CDI as you go...

For charging the cap, simplest method I've been using is by utilizing 'DC fluorescent lamp ballast' as my charger. You could use ZVS for more efficient operation, of course...

Good luck!  ;D

Offline lots_of_lime

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2751 on: December 17, 2010, 02:25:06 AM »
Hello, I am new here and find this site interesting.
I took a look at the schematics at the start of this thread.
I understand how the circuit works, but wonder what the purpose of the diodes are.

-the inverter provides 120vac from 12vdc battery.
-the rectifier+the capacitor turns the 120vac into raw dc, about 160vdc.
Just a note here, the capacitor should probably be dc and rated for at least 200vdc, and find one with a low ESR, thats would be effective series resistance. the lower the ESR the faster the cap can charge and discharge.
-then the relay is switched, applying the 160vdc to ignition coil, when the relay turns off that is when the high voltage is produced on the output of the ignition coil. it a huge spike caused from the induction coils being inductors and they dont like changes, lol.

since ignition coils output spikes anywhere between 20000volts and up, from 12vdc.
yours will be spicing upwards of about 266000volts plus, lol. cause you are using 160vdc.
BIG ASS SPARK.

I'm not 100% sure what the diodes are doing, Have been trying to figure this out.
and also why so many in series, that makes no sense, one diode should be sufficient for whatever you are trying to do. all a diode does is allow current to flow in one direction.
maybe they are meant to be put in parallel to handle more current.

k, maybe i can explain what the diodes are doing.

at the moment the relay is switched to the ignition coil.
the capacitor with 160vdc across it is now across the ignition coil and across the spark plug- the voltage drop of all the diodes.again one is enough.
so the spark plug has about 155 volts on it.

now the output of the ignition coil will not see a high 266000 volts until the moment the relay switches back to the rectifier to recharge.
this is just the nature of inductors, remember from above.

so maybe the initial voltage of 155vdc on the spark plug gets it excited, don't now.
seems insignificant compared to 266000 volts.

would really like to know what happens without the diodes.

let me know if you see this different?

thanks rob
I have a lot more input, but let's start here.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2751 on: December 17, 2010, 02:25:06 AM »
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Offline lon92

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2752 on: December 17, 2010, 04:52:33 AM »
Hi!  ;D
Well, you're almost right, but, need more spices...  ::)

-About the ESR, yup, you're perfectly right, but, also, lower ESR means longer lasting caps... I once use a cheap cap, very high ESR, last for about only 10 minutes of run time!

-160V DC charged cap dumped into the ignition coil? That's CDI, Capacitive Discharge Ignition. It doesn't make a 'huge-ass' sparks, but, aid the dv/dt rate. The spark arcs long, caused by higher voltage, but, usually, thinner, due to low amp... See? Voltage is nothing without current...

-The diode in the circuit used to channels the (relatively) 'high-amp side' to the 'high-voltage side'. Without the diodes, the hv-side would simply shorted.

-The diodes are in series because of the low reverse voltage rated by the diode itself. If memory serve me right, the diode used in the circuit have the reverse voltage rated less than 1kV. So, wiring them 10 in series would make them rated for 10kV. Enough for less than 1cm spark. (approx. 1kV for each 1mm spark gap.) Any less than this would make the diode act as an unintentional Zener diode... Lol!

-Actually, as you say, one diode could be sufficient enough, but, must be highly-rated. Like the microwave oven's diode. Rated at 20kV and 350mA. Usually, expensive too...

So, as conclusion, those darn diodes really needed. It being use as the high-current side channeler.
Remember, the CDI circuit made with mechanical relay are meant for demonstration purposes only! Not practical for any working engine...

For practical ones, I really suggest to use a 'real' CDI ciruit, which utilize SCR.

Cheers!  ;D

PS: For the 'diode-less' version, you could jump to the Capacitor70 replication thread, by SuperGod, I guess...



Offline MrsNancy

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2753 on: January 23, 2011, 07:15:23 AM »
 Looks interesting and from reading the first few pages it sounds promising. Has anyone got an engine to run using this circuit so far?

I'm second year electronics and have not seen a chain of diode like that. It that to increase the voltage capacity?

Offline lon92

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2754 on: January 23, 2011, 07:50:40 AM »
Looks interesting and from reading the first few pages it sounds promising. Has anyone got an engine to run using this circuit so far?

I'm second year electronics and have not seen a chain of diode like that. It that to increase the voltage capacity?

I believe Dreamyear succeeded to to run his engine with the circuit. Look somewhere in Youtube.

About the diode, yup, it is to increase the forward-voltage of the diode.
Look in your diode's datasheet for rated forward-voltage.

Offline Michaelpier

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2755 on: January 26, 2011, 11:47:11 PM »
I will try to make the sparks without the relays.
iam thinking to use this instead of the scr  http://eu.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=g5ciJ0jwZaFPYkHVnREaNg==

Do you think is going to work?

Michael

Offline lon92

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2756 on: January 27, 2011, 03:59:43 AM »
I will try to make the sparks without the relays.
iam thinking to use this instead of the scr  http://eu.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=g5ciJ0jwZaFPYkHVnREaNg==

Do you think is going to work?

Michael

In my opinion, 1.2A is too small for CDI application.
Also, it's using opto-mechanism, I believe it would be very slow for this application.
Need someone more expert than me to explain this.

My 2 cents...  ;D

Offline Shiver

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2757 on: February 11, 2011, 07:31:45 AM »
I followed this thread for the first couple of months, and I want to see the light and sound for myself.  Rather than reading the whole thread I decided to read the panaceabocof summary pdf, and there's a couple of points I wonder if someone could clarify:

1.  If I get the www.aquapulser.com RPG 4700 do I essentially have the same system ready to go?  I'm no expert with electronics, and I have a use for this unit on a scooter in the conventional way even if I can't get it to work for using water so it would be the preferred route for me.  The only drawback being that it goes inline from the coil, and I'd prefer to buy a generator which will likely have a magneto instead of battery/coil.  Rather than reinventing things, it would be good to have a stable debugged basic setup from which to do further experimentation.

2.  It is mentioned that capacitance doesn't matter, it's high voltage that matters, yet reproducing apparently took at least 47uf capacitor to get meaningful output.  Is the idea extensible, in that you can go higher and higher with voltage to get more effect whilst using the same energy? or are there practical limits?

3.  The panaceabocof document mentions Graneau using 3600 joules, which not meaning anything to me I googled a conversion which states that 3600j is 1 watt-hour.  I thought wow that's low, and referred to the RPG4700 page which says that it uses 30watts on top of whatever the conventional system is using.  This makes me wonder if they're dealing with the same thing.

I think I have an idea of how to get useful work out of this, but depending on the nature of the effect would mean some very different design approaches.  The pressure test showing 75psi in water that was preloaded at 36psi suggests that the expansion is around double, which isn't anything like conventional ICE gas expansion, and that when tested in air didn't register.  I wonder whether it still wouldn't register if the air was already compressed at 10:1 or whatever a stock engine happened to be, but it would like it would be low and at the same time the camino from SR1 appears to have similar power to gasoline.  Seeing other references to using the effect for forming metal plates and suggesting potential pressures of 20,000-40,000 Atm's makes me wonder if all these things are the same or not.  The outputs vary from mundane to magical.  I'd hate to play with this and dismiss it because I'd misunderstood a key concept.

Last time (2008) when I made some suggestions of things to try to get a handle on what the phenomenon was I got labelled as an imposter (I said things like try putting a balloon on the end and see if it expands and collapses).  As the only way I'm going to get the answers I seek is to actually do it, I'm just looking to make sure I have all the components that have been proven so that I can focus my time on the areas that still have question marks.


Offline JuBragg

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2758 on: March 20, 2011, 08:15:19 AM »
I have read about ten hours of this thread including much of the earliest pages with diagrams. I see the goal of producing a plasma and following up with a heavier amperage to more completely burn water vapor in the cylinder.

Has anyone considered that flame is a plasma so if we run on conventional fuel and conventional timing, then introduce the high amp spark in a plasma environment at 35° or so after top dead centre it should not need high voltage to bridge the gap.?

Admittedly this would not be running solely on water but it would be far simpler to experiment on existing engines, and various ways of water introduction could be tried.

Many years ago I ran an old (1918?) Amanco hit and miss governed stationary engine that ran first on gasoline to start with, switched over to Kerosene when warmed up, and then had a water regulator that allowed  water to be introduced via a needle valve that increased the power and let the engine run cooler, without of course any follow up spark.

When "Firestorm" plug details became available, I reformed the points of conventional plugs to form a dome on the central electrode and a cup on the side electrode that covered the dome, and even though the cup was only about twice the diameter of the electrode material the resulting spark was quite different to a normal one.  The spark was reddish, and covered the whole area under the dome.

Tests on a four stroke push lawnmower seemed to show increased power, letting me cut tussock grass clumps that stalled the mower before. Unfortunately it ripped the center out of the cutting disk after an hour or two of that ! Then made a set of plugs for my 1992 1800 FWD Subaru and it allowed me to come up a 9 hairpin mountain road on my usual town route in one higher gear, third.

To convert the plugs you need a high speed hobby drill, a set of diamond bits, a hardened steel Phillips metal screw to make the dome former which is hollowed with a diamond bit  then put in a drill and pressed and moved around on the central electrode to 'spin' and form the dome. A slight depression on an anvil metal piece and a domed end punch and a few taps with a hammer forms the bent out side electrode into a cup, tricky balancing act as you have to hold the punch and plug in the same hand. Then bend the electrode back centrally over the center electrode, gap with wire the right diameter bent to go under the cup as a flat gapper will not work.

Not very scientific I know , but if it helps those with the capabilities of making the ignition set up get to use it on a vehicle and show substantial fuel saving it will be one step along the way.

I'm working on an old (1928) 4HP stationary engine with 18" heavy flywheels for a generator, if I can get it going on mainly water it should rival grid power now at 22 to 28 cents a KWH !

Offline diehostusxana

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #2759 on: March 23, 2011, 11:47:51 PM »
Hello, dear gentlemens,
here some update from my side:
.) the schematics - easy to build, it sparks every 2 seconds, when plugged in
.) some photos (more here: https://picasaweb.google.com/101524908390124389939/PlasmaSpark?feat=directlink )

things to note:
.) to avoid circuit switching with hand, I use gas discharge tube. I understand, it takes some energy away, ok, but I feel it to be comfot-giving option
.) the small copper wire is swinging after the hit with HV flow (? is there some classical physics explanation)
.) the spark is jumping also to reverse-oriented diode (? strange, right, but showcases Aaron's correct, reference: panacea-bocaf water spark plug)
.) I don't get a reason of that side-jump of the bight light (see the picture)


That's it about input.
Now about wished output.
0) I previously posted my enging photo, asking for some comments on how to change it to plasma. If there are some practical tips, I would appreciate.
1) can please somebody, who has checked, comment on pulstar.com plugs? Are they giving the FireStorm equal effect or not?
2) does somebody have idea why the pulstar.com has that bright spark?
3) If I would say, the eather, which binds with electrons, is like "uncompressible gas" and current is like "a little bit compressible gas", and therefore, in gotoluc circuit eather is the first who excapes to the spark gap and gives that bright light. Will I be right? (reference book: "The Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity").
4) About aquapulser.com - is it generating the big spark with the same amount of energy or it consuming more than classic spark-plug?

Best regards,
myself

 

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