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overunity.de Deutsche Forums-Section => Themen in deutscher Sprache => Topic started by: Reisender on June 25, 2008, 10:10:23 PM

Title: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Reisender on June 25, 2008, 10:10:23 PM
Hallo Leute,

wollte mal fragen ob die Technologie von David Hamel nachgebaut wurde? Irgendwie finde ich im Internet rein garnichts Aktuelles dazu!

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/hammnu.htm

Gru?
Reisender
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Reisender on June 27, 2008, 11:02:41 PM
Mal einfach mal in die Runde gefragt. Was denkt ihr was ein Magnetfeld ist? Wie es beschaffen ist? Woraus es besteht? Usw.? W?rde mich einfach mal interessieren was da f?r Vorstellungen existieren.
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Reisender on June 29, 2008, 11:59:05 AM
hier sind paar youtubvideos zu diesem Effekt des Magnetgat oder wie sich das schimpft!

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=hkgyY47duCM&feature=related
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=GHN-Nr61IDI&feature=related
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=MUJ62NF9iYQ&feature=related
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: AnandAadhar on July 22, 2008, 10:43:41 AM
hier sind paar youtubvideos zu diesem Effekt des Magnetgat oder wie sich das schimpft!

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=hkgyY47duCM&feature=related
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=GHN-Nr61IDI&feature=related
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=MUJ62NF9iYQ&feature=related


Here are a few webpages about hamel's device:
http://www.world-famous.com/DavidHamelStuff/Hamel-Physics.html
http://www.linux-host.org/energy/thfrnrgen.htm
http://www.padrak.com/ine/SINCLAIRE1.html
http://www.icestuff.com/~energy21/hameltech4.htm
http://www.icestuff.com/~energy21/hameltech5.htm

AnandAadhar
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: AnandAadhar on July 22, 2008, 11:10:08 AM
Mal einfach mal in die Runde gefragt. Was denkt ihr was ein Magnetfeld ist? Wie es beschaffen ist? Woraus es besteht? Usw.? W?rde mich einfach mal interessieren was da f?r Vorstellungen existieren.

Magnetism is the local ether of cyclic time. It manifests as radiant energy in the difference of electric potential of the higher and lower atmosphere. A magnetic field is space polarized by a magnet (like the iron core of the earth). Space consists of gravitions (positive and negative time combined as one before separate material manifestation into protons and electrons, proto-matter so to say, see; http://peswiki.com/index.php/Paper:A_New_Foundation_for_Physics,_by_Quantum_Aether_Dynamics_Institute#Relationship_of_Dimensions_to_Form). So a magnetic field consists of cycling gravitons which with momentum can be converted into usable electrical energy. Stubblefield e.g. managed to retreive electrical energy out of the earth's active magnetic field. Just a coil in the soil. That is all. That is the proof. Gravity is the universal ether of centripetal force (linear inward time). It manifests as the Casimir force (the force pressing two plates held at a microscopic distance together) . And dark energy or zeropoint energy is the primal ether of timespace or the expansion of the universe (linear outward going time) proven by the Hubble redshift. The latter ether is the dominant one traditionally considered absolute. The relative of the ether though (gravity combined with magnetism)  is what we seek to provide us with overunity energy. That is why the Hamel 'three cone' device is called a gravito magnetic device (GMD) by Pierre Sinclair (see: http://www.padrak.com/ine/SINCLAIRE1.html).  The Hamel device confines the workings of gravity in compressing that force in all three spacial dimensions in the frame of his djed-setup in such a way that the central magnetic equilibrium is impossible and the lateral deviation is repelled. The magnetic force can, driven by the primal ether, do nothing else but prove its cyclic nature then; if everything is correctly tuned that is. And that is the problem with Hamel. We have no video's of a working GMD seen yet, only stories of contacts of Hamel. Hamel was a believer of aliens contacting him through his television set and egyptian mythology. Jeanne Manning wrote a book about him (http://www.world-famous.com/DavidHamelStuff/Hamel-Products-Info.html). It is out of print alas. That makes research difficult. Was Hamel a crackpot or an extraterrestrially inspired medium? He was no writer nor a scientist. An intuitive person for sure. We have to reconstruct his generator ourselves to prove this theory of catching the force of the relative ether right.  J. Naudin indeed did good work in this. He even made models of Hamel's flying saucer working on the three-cone principle of anisotropic restlessness.  See further the links above.
Title: David Hamel Generator. Gravito Magetic Device , GMD tested
Post by: AnandAadhar on August 14, 2008, 04:43:58 PM
A replication is tried and the principle is tested of the so-called GMD, the gravito-magnetic device or free energy generator. Hamel said he was inspired by aliens, he even tried to build a flying saucer with it. It was refuted as being a viable option by the Myth busters team. But since no material of that effort could be found on the net, we tried our own replication....It leads to the conclusion that from positioning the spinner in a cup or device like the GMD no spin is obtained. One illusion less.
The design is described in an artice of mr. Pierre Sinclair, a former associate of Hamel.
Article: http://www.padrak.com/ine/SINCLAIRE1.html
Site dedicated to the work of Hamel:
http://www.world-famous.com/DavidHamelStuff/Hamel-Physics.html
Computer model of Naudin:
http://www.linux-host.org/energy/thfrnrgen.htm
Free energy research pages Anand Aadhar:
http://theorderoftime.com/science/free_energy/index.html
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: AnandAadhar on August 16, 2008, 10:29:37 AM
O sorry, I forgot: the YouTube postings are:

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=89Hu2yHid1w
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=MP4Y6nzaPRg

AA
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Steven Dufresne on August 16, 2008, 03:49:49 PM
Hi Anand,
Nice work you've done and it's good to see some videos. I tried replicating this myself a few years ago. See the pages starting with:
 http://rimstar.org/sdprop/haml45gd/haml45gd.htm
Note the most important one:
 http://rimstar.org/sdprop/haml45gd/h45gdavd/h45gdavd.htm
where I detail the results of my visits with David Hamel.

The main principle for this 3 cone device is not spin though. In fact, it isn't supposed to spin at all. It's supposed to wobble. The best animation of this is on this page (although the wobble is exagerated, more below):
 http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/hammnu.htm
You succeed in this a little at around 6:20 in your first video when you lower the top magnet. The Hamel spinner was intended by David to demonstrate what he called the butterfly effect or motion, which is the wobbling motion that the "spinning" magnet makes when you press down on it with the magnet in your hand if you don't press too hard. This is what he told me when he demonstrated it to me at his place during one visit. However, he also said that it was a demonstration of perpetual motion, which Jean-Louis Naudin showed it wasn't. The wobble and spin work only as long as you hold the repelling magnet in your hand. As soon as you fix the repelling magnet in place, the wobble and spin will not continue. It's the small movements of your hand that keep the magnet spinning, and wobbling if you don't press down too hard.

However, the 3 cone device, which David called a heater and which replicators call a 45GD (45 gallon drum device) or 3CD (3 cone device) is not supposed to spin, just wobble. It does look like your alignment is a little out. The middle cone is always tilted when the three cones are in place. This could be caused by the alignment of the base affecting the bottom cone affecting the middle cone. Or it could be the cones themselves. Hard to say from the video.

When I brought mine to show David (I lived a 2 hour drive away) he always pointed to the area between the magnets on the cone's rim and the fixed ring of magnets that repell them and said that the energy comes from here, the zero point (quoting from memory.) You might also need to make a more complete version before it'll work, but who knows. David's version that worked was more completely built: metal cones, contained in a metal 45 gallon drum. For it to "perpetually" wobble it may need to be more complete. David did say many times that the resulting air flow around the cones was also important. Also, the first thing David pointed out to me when I showed him my first version was that the spacing between the cone rim magnets and the ring of magnets that repell them was too big. He told me that his was only about 1/4" with about 1/16" of wobble. So your gap size may be to big. My first one (Mark 1) had about 1" gap but my second one (Mark 2) was about 7/16". Also, as you mention in your video, the top magnet that pushes down should be in repulsion, not attraction. It's supposed to push down to compress the cones a little so that they wobble. But I imagine your cones alignment will have to be perfect. Also, one time when David and I were trying to get my Mark 2 version running, he suggested that my oscillator (the common term for the base) was too rigid. It needs to be fairly loose to allow the bottom cone to move however it wants. Compare how much freedom the bottom tip of your middle cone has compared to the bottom tip of your bottom cone.

Pierre Sinclair's gavito magnetic device was an attempt to replicate David Hamel's device that flew away. Some details on that one are at:
 http://rimstar.org/sdprop/hamlshfs/hamlshfs.htm
The device you're trying to replicate did not fly away but instead imploded after being left to run of a while. It also made the air glow (plasma? ionization?)  which I suspect you may not see until you have metal cones and enclose it, possible in a metal drum.

I hope this helps.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: vince on August 17, 2008, 03:44:13 AM
Hi Guys;

I also built a Hamel 3 cone device a few years ago after reading about it on several sites.  Mine did exactly what Anand's did in his video. I must have made a hundred adjustments but it would always stop.

Regards'
Vince
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: AnandAadhar on August 17, 2008, 10:02:59 AM
Hi Anand,
Nice work you've done and it's good to see some videos. I tried replicating this myself a few years ago. See the pages starting with:
 http://rimstar.org/sdprop/haml45gd/haml45gd.htm
Note the most important one:
 http://rimstar.org/sdprop/haml45gd/h45gdavd/h45gdavd.htm
where I detail the results of my visits with David Hamel.

The main principle for this 3 cone device is not spin though. In fact, it isn't supposed to spin at all. It's supposed to wobble. The best animation of this is on this page (although the wobble is exagerated, more below):
 http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/hammnu.htm
You succeed in this a little at around 6:20 in your first video when you lower the top magnet. The Hamel spinner was intended by David to demonstrate what he called the butterfly effect or motion, which is the wobbling motion that the "spinning" magnet makes when you press down on it with the magnet in your hand if you don't press too hard. This is what he told me when he demonstrated it to me at his place during one visit. However, he also said that it was a demonstration of perpetual motion, which Jean-Louis Naudin showed it wasn't. The wobble and spin work only as long as you hold the repelling magnet in your hand. As soon as you fix the repelling magnet in place, the wobble and spin will not continue. It's the small movements of your hand that keep the magnet spinning, and wobbling if you don't press down too hard.

However, the 3 cone device, which David called a heater and which replicators call a 45GD (45 gallon drum device) or 3CD (3 cone device) is not supposed to spin, just wobble. It does look like your alignment is a little out. The middle cone is always tilted when the three cones are in place. This could be caused by the alignment of the base affecting the bottom cone affecting the middle cone. Or it could be the cones themselves. Hard to say from the video.

When I brought mine to show David (I lived a 2 hour drive away) he always pointed to the area between the magnets on the cone's rim and the fixed ring of magnets that repell them and said that the energy comes from here, the zero point (quoting from memory.) You might also need to make a more complete version before it'll work, but who knows. David's version that worked was more completely built: metal cones, contained in a metal 45 gallon drum. For it to "perpetually" wobble it may need to be more complete. David did say many times that the resulting air flow around the cones was also important. Also, the first thing David pointed out to me when I showed him my first version was that the spacing between the cone rim magnets and the ring of magnets that repell them was too big. He told me that his was only about 1/4" with about 1/16" of wobble. So your gap size may be to big. My first one (Mark 1) had about 1" gap but my second one (Mark 2) was about 7/16". Also, as you mention in your video, the top magnet that pushes down should be in repulsion, not attraction. It's supposed to push down to compress the cones a little so that they wobble. But I imagine your cones alignment will have to be perfect. Also, one time when David and I were trying to get my Mark 2 version running, he suggested that my oscillator (the common term for the base) was too rigid. It needs to be fairly loose to allow the bottom cone to move however it wants. Compare how much freedom the bottom tip of your middle cone has compared to the bottom tip of your bottom cone.

Pierre Sinclair's gavito magnetic device was an attempt to replicate David Hamel's device that flew away. Some details on that one are at:
 http://rimstar.org/sdprop/hamlshfs/hamlshfs.htm
The device you're trying to replicate did not fly away but instead imploded after being left to run of a while. It also made the air glow (plasma? ionization?)  which I suspect you may not see until you have metal cones and enclose it, possible in a metal drum.

I hope this helps.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org

The upper cup was sidewards under the force of the magnet above it. The smaller magnet did not show that. So the alignment was right but the force of the field couldn't keep the 3 in line.  Lowering the magnets makes it pend in one direction always. A wobble would be a back and forth motion of the top magnet, but the field in the middle would prevent it crossing the centre so that the only way is for it to spin, Or am I wrong? Naudin's replication-model shows a spin with the wobble. So you have seen a Hamel device working perpetually, or just for some time? A wobble caused by a little shock from the outside can take minutes to come to a rest, but the decline is quickly seen. Words are just words, we need a witness like you to be exact on your observations to be sure we have a real thing here. I have no idea how to picture the wobble going that strong that the thing develops anti-gravity... Just burning a little bulb or spinning a wheel with it would be enough for me. We need a replicable, mechanical proof of magnetic overunity.  Vince had the same problem: no alignment with our replications gives a permanent wobble. My compliments with your faithful research. Don't you have a video of your wobble?

AnandAadhar
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Steven Dufresne on August 17, 2008, 03:23:03 PM
I also built a Hamel 3 cone device a few years ago after reading about it on several sites.  Mine did exactly what Anand's did in his video. I must have made a hundred adjustments but it would always stop.

@Vince,
Nice work. Do you mean it spun or that it wobbled or both? Mine wobbled for sure. I don't recall any spinning. Did you ever try with it enclosed in a metal container? David always said that the air motion around the cones is important. Without the enclosure you wouldn't have the air movement. Also, if there's ionization (my theory, though David's mentioned of the colored glow supports it) then that might be needed to build up before it would become self-sustaining (again, my theory.)

The upper cup was sidewards under the force of the magnet above it. The smaller magnet did not show that. So the alignment was right but the force of the field couldn't keep the 3 in line.  Lowering the magnets makes it pend in one direction always. A wobble would be a back and forth motion of the top magnet, but the field in the middle would prevent it crossing the centre so that the only way is for it to spin, Or am I wrong? Naudin's replication-model shows a spin with the wobble.

@Anand,
There may well be spin, but according to what David Hamel told me, it's the wobble that we're after. I don't recall mine spinning.

So you have seen a Hamel device working perpetually, or just for some time?

I've never seen one working perpetually. Mine would wobble for a short time and then stop. My version that replaced the top repelling magnets with a motorized oscillator would continue to wobble, but that was because of the motorized oscillator of course.

A wobble caused by a little shock from the outside can take minutes to come to a rest, but the decline is quickly seen. Words are just words, we need a witness like you to be exact on your observations to be sure we have a real thing here.

I agree. That's why I did the next best thing and brought mine with me when I visited David so he could point out issues first hand. But yes, seeing a perpetually working one in person would be best. Unfortunately David's destroyed itself the first evening he tested it and since he knew it worked, he didn't see any reason to make another. Instead he focused on building his space ship version, which he didn't get a chance to complete. All we have are the results of conversations with David Hamel by people such as myself, and there won't be any new ones since David passed away in September 2007.

I have no idea how to picture the wobble going that strong that the thing develops anti-gravity... Just burning a little bulb or spinning a wheel with it would be enough for me. We need a replicable, mechanical proof of magnetic overunity.  Vince had the same problem: no alignment with our replications gives a permanent wobble. My compliments with your faithful research. Don't you have a video of your wobble?

Sadly, and I regret it more every time this comes up, to make room in my small place, I've since gotten rid of everything except the magnets and my two versions of the oscillator (the bottom part.) Back when I did my experiments back in 2000, I didn't have a video camera. But since mine would only wobble a short time, that doesn't matter. The animation on Jean-Louis's website is good enough to demonstrate the motion. His replication is only a replication of the demonstration of the butterfly motion and so is less useful than his animation for the purpose of replicating the 3 cone device. If you want descriptions from more people then you'd have to go to the yahoo group where there are plenty.

I also have only theories, and I can picture how it might occur. Being one who can't see how you can get energy from nowhere, I bring zero point energy into it of course:
 http://rimstar.org/sdprop/hamel/hameltheory.htm
"The initial wobble of the magnets induces an electrical current in the metal cones and the exterior shell. This results in a separation of charge across the skin of the cone. Charge leaks out any sharp points, ionizing the air. The wobbling of the cones causes the ionized air to move around, including away from the sharp points, allowing more ionization. This ionized air fills the drum, including the area between the wobbling magnets located at the cone rims. This fulctuating magnetic field in the presence of ionized air results in a tapping of zero point energy. Somehow there is feedback which sustains the wobbling. If enough zero point energy is tapped then gravity effects may happen."
More is on the webpage. But that's just my untested theory.

If I were to build one again, having gone over two versions with David, I would embed my magnets in metal bicycle rims like David did so that my cones would get more contact with the fluctuating magnetic field (for my theory) and I would use the exact same magnets that David did. My cones would be metal, like David's, and the whole thing would be enclosed in a metal 45 gallon drum, like David's. The first rule of any replicator is "first replicate exactly." I started out without contact with David and with very little info, like you, and back in the days when there was only a short video lecture by Pierre Sinclair. Even after visiting David a few times and showing him two versions I still have questions about the rings of magnets attached to the drum wall. If I were to build one more version, I'd have to start from scratch.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: vince on August 17, 2008, 08:53:22 PM
Steve;

My replication would wobble and give the odd partial spin but would quickly come to a stop.

If you look up MYTHBUSTERS latest episodes you will find the show they did on antigravity devices.  They built a very close replica of the Hamel device complete with the 45 gallon drum. I got the impression from the show that the unit was balanced and did continue to wobble but I don't know for how long.  They did try to measure for gravity modification but got negative results. For them to go that far, I'm assuming that they got a fairly steady wobble in their cones. It is probably the best replication I've seen over the years but sadly it too, does not work.

Regards
Vince
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Steven Dufresne on August 17, 2008, 11:39:05 PM
Thanks Vince.
I've heard of the Mythbusters episode but I don't get the show myself and despite having looked for it online a number of times, have never been able to find it. If anyone has a link to where this episode can be viewed I'd really appreciate having it.

Also, if you do get a chance to enclose your 3 cone device, I'd suggest you make sure that the enclosure is electrically connected to the metal rim that the ring of magnets (the magnets that are in opposition to the cone rim magnets) is attached to - just in case it's important that the fluctuating magnetic field induce current to flow in the enclosure wall. I did get two weak positive results from mine when I ran my Mark 2 with a mechanical oscillator to create the wobbling and with it enclosed in a steel 45 gallon drum with just a small hole in the top. The first highly subjective result was that I think I smelled ozone, which would result if there was ionization going on inside. The second result was when I inserted the probe from an ion meter down into the drum such that it lightly touched the inside surface of the top cone (which was aluminium), it showed fluctuating ionization in sync with the wobble, i.e. changing amounts of charge on the cone surface. This makes sense as the magnets at the cone rim would have a fluctuating magnetic field which would induce electron flow in the metal cone. See:
 http://rimstar.org/sdprop/haml45gd/h45gdmk2/h45gdmk2.htm#RESULTS
and more specifically:
 http://rimstar.org/sdprop/haml45gd/h45gdmk2/mtr1mk2/mtr1mk2.htm
Darn, I wish I still had the parts for mine!
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: AbbaRue on August 18, 2008, 05:32:12 AM
The reason I see for the device with the ball bearing working is because you are chasing
it around on the table. The movement of your hand chasing it makes it keep spinning.
If it really did spin on it's own you could just replace the ball with a stationary bearing
and it would keep spinning in one place.
I see no mystery here.

By the way my girlfriend became interested in Hamel and ordered the whole package on his device.
In the videos he keeps mentioning the importance of using granite,
something about the characteristics of granite. He insists everything must be made from granite.
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Yucca on August 18, 2008, 10:47:38 AM
The reason I see for the device with the ball bearing working is because you are chasing
it around on the table. The movement of your hand chasing it makes it keep spinning.

I'll second that, every Hamel spinner gets dragged/pushed around by the operator. It spins because the spinner is allowed to tilt slightly thus the ball contact point on the table is slightly off centre, this gives a tiny contact circle as it rolls around so only a small hand movement will cause quite fast revolutions.
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: khabe on August 18, 2008, 11:55:26 AM
My mind is the same - it does not spin when all members stationary.
When hand holded - then yes  ::)
Gruss,
khabe
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Steven Dufresne on August 18, 2008, 03:52:36 PM
My mind is the same - it does not spin when all members stationary.
When hand holded - then yes  ::)
Gruss,
khabe

Agreed. It was only intended by David Hamel to show the butterfly-like wobble motion. I cringe when I see the videos on youtube that show people having since "discovered" it and claim it's an overunity principle.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: mattihorn on August 29, 2008, 07:13:33 PM
Hi Guys;

I also built a Hamel 3 cone device a few years ago after reading about it on several sites.  Mine did exactly what Anand's did in his video. I must have made a hundred adjustments but it would always stop.

Regards'
Vince

Hey Vince,

Nice job on your set up. The thing I notice the most in all builder's attempts is the frame. If the frame is too weak or not structurally established, it could add to the shut down of the cones. The vibration could be lost in the frame. Try not to use any wood in the construction. Make it all metal. This may be why AnandAadhar is having trouble as well. I noticed a lot of wood present. The frame should be rigid. Try to use non-magnetic metal tubing, rather than thin diameter rod. I am using 1 inch diameter tubing and it is very strong. The base is all metal and the tubing is very secure to the base.
all components of the frame should have a rigidness which is superior it would seem. Even the top rejection.

This is an example of my first attempt. I did use wood on the bottom. It never worked of course.

(http://webhome.idirect.com/~mattihorn/DAVIDHAMEL/2.GIF)

This is my latest attempt: Notice that the entire thing is all metal. The rings are thick. The frame is very rigid. I haven't got it to work just yet, and yet so far, I am quite sure that this arrangement will help.

(http://webhome.idirect.com/~mattihorn/DAVIDHAMEL/1.GIF)

All for the practice! Hey Steve!

Matt
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Steven Dufresne on August 30, 2008, 12:12:43 AM
Hey Matt!
I see you're doing your usual beautiful work. I'm salivating at your machining skills.

Perfectly understandable if you don't do this but could you do a test for how the charge is moving around the cone surface while the cones are wobbling? Like the one I did here:
 http://rimstar.org/sdprop/haml45gd/h45gdmk2/mtr1mk2/mtr1mk2.htm
It looked like I had charge moving around in sync with the wobble. If you need an ion meter I can send you mine. If I recall correctly, you're also in Ontario (I'm in Ottawa) so it'd be cheap to ship (I'll cover the costs for shipping there and back.) Your choice. Send me a private message or a private email (stevend at rimstar period org) if you want the meter.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Koen1 on September 01, 2008, 04:46:54 PM
Wasn't the 3-cone device also a proof of concept device?
What I recall from some years ago, when I was still lurking in the Hameltech group ;),
is that the actual device Hamel built after his 3-cone prototype was a much more
flattened version...
Of course that was the engine for his granite spaceship... :)

Anyway, what exactly is the goal here?
To replicate Hamels engine?
Or to try to build an altered version of his engine prototype and try to use it as a generator?
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Steven Dufresne on September 01, 2008, 05:32:09 PM
@Koen1,
For my part, it's to do the proof of concept one, the 45 gallon device, to prove it works and to understand how it works. If it does work then it may or may not have energy tapping potential. Actually it would have some since David referred to it as the heater and wanted someone to build one to warm his workshop in the winter - he was to busy with a weight-into-speed device and his spaceship. And for those who don't know, his own 45 gallon drum one was destroyed when it imploded. If it's ZPE being tapped, there may even be measureable gravitational anomalies even though David Hamel's 45 gallon drum one did not fly. Also, I remember David saying that size is an issue, and that it would have to be on the order of the size of the 45 gallon to see results. Perhaps the engine one would have to be larger for gravitational effects to kick in. So the 45 gallon drum size is about as big as I'd want to build for proof of concept.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Koen1 on September 01, 2008, 05:50:03 PM
@Steven: What the old Hamel guys told me, as is what
I recall from Hamels account of the event, is that the first
full scale 45GD "3 cone device" Hamel built went active after
he put the lid on, and after a day or so it had built up a bluish
aura around it, made a humming/vibrating noise, and at some point
just shot up into the air, straight through his roof, and was never
seen again.
This according to Hamel was proof unquestionable, and after that
he started building the flattened-out engine version.

But then again, I can only tell you what I was told about that, as I
never spoke to Hamel personally.

Interesting factoid is that the "Hamel Spinning Top" was investigated by
a couple of MIT students who analysed it quite recently (year or two ago),
and concluded that it is not only a funky setup but most interestingly that
such a setup has the ability to transduce thermal noise from the environment
into ballistic transport (of the ball and magnet) very efficiently.
In other words: Hamels "spinner" can work and thermal noise can power it.

Well in any case, it is nice to see people actually seriously looking at the Hamel tech again. :)

Oh, und Entschuldigung das ich kein Deutsch spreche... mein ?nglisch ist so viel besser. ;)
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Dansway on September 01, 2008, 06:40:08 PM
To this day, people do NOT understand or have a clue what David Hamel is about or his story.

The drum device is NOT what people should be working on! 
Mr. Hamel's tried to build another "drum experiment" and could not get it to work and abandoned it for his real mission, the UFO tech.

Regards,

Dan

Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Steven Dufresne on September 01, 2008, 07:06:26 PM
@Steven: What the old Hamel guys told me, as is what
I recall from Hamels account of the event, is that the first
full scale 45GD "3 cone device" Hamel built went active after
he put the lid on, and after a day or so it had built up a bluish
aura around it, made a humming/vibrating noise, and at some point
just shot up into the air, straight through his roof, and was never
seen again.
This according to Hamel was proof unquestionable, and after that
he started building the flattened-out engine version.
But then again, I can only tell you what I was told about that, as I
never spoke to Hamel personally.

No offense intended, but I think you're misremembering it, probably remembering a mix of things (45GD+Hamel's engine that did fly away+Schauberger's device that went through the roof?). I'm sure if you go to the hameltech group right now and ask you'll find the Hamel's 45GD didn't lift off. That it imploded is what he told me. Quoting from Jeanne Manning's "The Granite Man & the Butterfly" as told to her by David Hamel:

"Working in the garage attached to their house [this was back in Maple Ridge, BC, Canada], he placed the apparatus inside a 45-gallon black steel barrel ringed on the inside with magnets. The barrel would be the shell of the device.
  Everything lined up. Then he screwed down the cover. This compressed the apparatus forcing the isotope line to break into three parts and starting the tumbling motion passed on from one to the other The rings of magnets repelling each other caused the cones to float one over the other. They swung in a constant wobbling circling motion, faster and faster. After they reached a certain speed the vibration somewhat stabilized.
  David was pleased that his model operated. He went into the house to share his success and attend to Nora's needs, leaving the experimental device running. As he shut the French doors between the garage and the living room, he was unconcerned that the device was wobbling away in the barrel with its cap on. He was certain that the relatively small apparatus would not produce an energy effect, and he expected that it might soon stop its wobbling. He wanted to see how long it would run. If the motion continued until morning, he would be very surprised, he thought.
  "It'll never fly. But maybe I can learn from it," he told Nora.
  The couple went to bed and slept until they were awakened by an extremely loud bang. "Fire!" Nora said.
  David jumped out of bed and looked toward the attached garage. A red glow came from that direction through the French doors and lit the living room. From the bedroom, it did look as if the garage was on fire!
  Inside the garage, he encountered a dismaying sight. His carefully-built device had exploded out of the drum and was scattered in pieces all over the room. Apparently the red glow had been from a buildup of energy of some type as the device operated. There was no fire, fortunately, but his investment of thousands of dollars in magnets was destroyed.
  The mess of metal and the broken roofing shakes on the top of the building were not as discouraging to David as the loss of all those ceramic magnets. However, he had the satisfaction of seeing that he could build something which demonstrated the power of the magnetic repulsion coupled with the arrangement of the "breaking lines"."

Oh, and David gave me the actual magnets he used in the top of the drum and top cone as well as a few of the actual magnets he used in the bicycle rims, so they certainly didn't shoot up never to be seen again. You can see them again here :-):
 http://rimstar.org/sdprop/haml45gd/h45gdavd/h45gdavd.htm

Interesting factoid is that the "Hamel Spinning Top" was investigated by
a couple of MIT students who analysed it quite recently (year or two ago),
and concluded that it is not only a funky setup but most interestingly that
such a setup has the ability to transduce thermal noise from the environment
into ballistic transport (of the ball and magnet) very efficiently.
In other words: Hamels "spinner" can work and thermal noise can power it.

Sounds very interesting. Do you have a reference? I couldn't find anything.

Well in any case, it is nice to see people actually seriously looking at the Hamel tech again. :)

Oh, und Entschuldigung das ich kein Deutsch spreche... mein ?nglisch ist so viel besser. ;)

Und meine Entschuldigungen zu sprechen Englisch auf dieser deutschen Sektion des Forums. Ich wei? nur etwa zwei Dutzend deutschen W?rtern.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Steven Dufresne on September 01, 2008, 07:17:37 PM
Mr. Hamel's tried to build another "drum experiment" and could not get it to work and abandoned it for his real mission, the UFO tech.
When you say he tried to build another "drum experiment" are you refering to a more recent attempt while living in Gilmore? I know he work on a WIS (weight-into-speed) device that didn't work out sometime in the last 8 years or so before he passed away, but that's quite different than the 45GD. I remember seeing the beginnings of it in his quonset.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
PS. Nice to hear from you again, Dan!
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Dansway on September 01, 2008, 08:58:40 PM
Hey Steve! (& all),

Mr. Hamel tried to rebuild or replicate his 45 gallon "drum experiment" many years ago and did not succeed.

Why do you think Mr. Hamel used CONES to make the broken-line-movement or as Hamel called it the "Isotope" line of movement.
Why 3 cones and not 3 anything else?

It is because of AIR movement to form the positive and negative flows.
When the cones wobble they will fan or push air in a CIRCLE (the cones wobble or oscillate in a circle)
Hello... are we paying attention now!

People have real balls to try and think they know the technology, but they are children playing with toys.
It's sad...I wish it was different.

Regards,

Dan


P.S. 
Back at ya Steve.  Nice to hear from you.
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Dansway on September 01, 2008, 11:57:36 PM
Hi Steve,

My remarks reflex my frustration and was NOT pointed toward anyone, especially you.
You have graced us all with your open research and honesty and printed words are often taken wrongly as in this case.  My apology.

The UFO motor and the 3 cone 45 gallon drum device work on AIR flow charged and changed by magnetic fields.

David Hamel was very hard to understand in a lot of his explanations so that is a lot of the problem.
I have been silent these past few years as no one will listen to me and I have not the patience anymore to explain over and over again what I have personally learned from Mr. Hamel.

Again, I'm sorry for the words and I hope all is well?

All the best,

Dan

Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Koen1 on September 02, 2008, 12:57:59 AM
No offense intended, but I think you're misremembering it, probably remembering a mix of things (45GD+Hamel's engine that did fly away+Schauberger's device that went through the roof?). I'm sure if you go to the hameltech group right now and ask you'll find the Hamel's 45GD didn't lift off. That it imploded is what he told me.
Well I must indeed be misremembering. Haven't really kept up with it for some time now, I just saw this thread and jumped in. :)
Sorry for the mixup! Hope nobody's offended... :)

I was quite impressed with mr Hamels proof-of-concept gadgets (spinner, WIS, 45GD) and his theory (even though I must admit I still didn't follow all of it),
and most impressed by his engine and craft design as well as his perseverence. The man actually built a large part of a granite saucercraft,
for Bobs sake! Damn. And a flippin cool engine to power it. Now there's an inventor for ya.

As for the spinner reference, I'll see if I can find it for you. I read the article about half a year ago or so so I'll have to search a bit.

@Dan: Of course the 45GD and the engine used air... Was that a matter of discussion? The engine design included intake, outlet, and feedback
conduits and the engine "wings" (the flattened wobbling plates that are the cones in the 45GD) would 'wobble' in such a way that they would
move a large volume of air around the engine 'chamber'... right? Outflow was controlled and guided along the outer surface of the hull stages from
the top down, cylindrical intake centered at the bottom, right?
Or am I mixing stuff up horribly again?  :-[ Hope not... ;) ;D

Regards! :)
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Steven Dufresne on September 02, 2008, 01:51:46 AM
My remarks reflex my frustration and was NOT pointed toward anyone, especially you.
You have graced us all with your open research and honesty and printed words are often taken wrongly as in this case.  My apology.
Frustration I can understand. My apologies for not picking up on that.

The UFO motor and the 3 cone 45 gallon drum device work on AIR flow charged and changed by magnetic fields.

David Hamel was very hard to understand in a lot of his explanations so that is a lot of the problem.
I have been silent these past few years as no one will listen to me and I have not the patience anymore to explain over and over again what I have personally learned from Mr. Hamel.
David was hard to understand? That's an understatement :-). I think I've heard frustration in his voice a few times too. I do think you were better at picking out his meanings than me though.

I do want to point out though that, as well as stressing the air flow to me too, he did say that the zero point appeared in between the magnets, and he always refered to a vortex as if that were the shape of this "zero point" when he said this too me. For those who didn't know David, he gave common words his own meaning so by "zero point" he may have meant something else.

Again, I'm sorry for the words and I hope all is well?

All the best,

Dan
No worrys. I'm glad you joined us.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Steven Dufresne on September 02, 2008, 01:52:05 AM
Well I must indeed be misremembering. Haven't really kept up with it for some time now, I just saw this thread and jumped in. :)
Sorry for the mixup! Hope nobody's offended... :)
No reason anyone should be. We all do the best we can. What would be bad is if someone didn't correct us or at least give their alternate point of view. That I hate. How many of my own experiments would have gone better if someone with more expertise had spoken up?

As for the spinner reference, I'll see if I can find it for you. I read the article about half a year ago or so so I'll have to search a bit.
Thanks.

-Steve
http://rimstar.org
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Koen1 on September 02, 2008, 03:07:43 AM
@Steve:
Here's a link to that article: http://arxiv.org/abs/0710.1565
(I would have uploaded it but the pdf is something like 5mb so
you'll just have to download it I'm afraid.)
I was slightly mistaken in that it's not a couple of MIT students,
but rather the study was done at Caltech (at least in part).
The title is "Ballistic Transport at Uniform Temperature",
and although neither the abstract nor the papers intro mention
Hamel, you will see a picture of a typical Hamel "spinner"
on page 2 already and Hamels name mentioned right below the pic.
It is an analysis of the spinner. And the conclusion sounds
really interesting, I think... :)
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Sprocket on September 02, 2008, 03:45:41 AM
Why are people posting in english in the german language thread? - it strikes me as rude...

sprechen sie Deutsches im deutsche sprachgewinde bitte (a la Babel).........
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 02, 2008, 09:37:06 AM
Why are people posting in english in the german language thread? - it strikes me as rude...

sprechen sie Deutsches im deutsche sprachgewinde bitte (a la Babel).........


Wir sprechen Deutsch, aber nich alle. English ist algemeiner und jeder versteht es.

AA
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 02, 2008, 09:42:29 AM
@Steve:
Here's a link to that article: http://arxiv.org/abs/0710.1565
(I would have uploaded it but the pdf is something like 5mb so
you'll just have to download it I'm afraid.)
I was slightly mistaken in that it's not a couple of MIT students,
but rather the study was done at Caltech (at least in part).
The title is "Ballistic Transport at Uniform Temperature",
and although neither the abstract nor the papers intro mention
Hamel, you will see a picture of a typical Hamel "spinner"
on page 2 already and Hamels name mentioned right below the pic.
It is an analysis of the spinner. And the conclusion sounds
really interesting, I think... :)

Part 4 of the pdf article is called 'Hamel's magnetic top'. Indeed Hamel taken seriously in straight science. That is good. Thanks for the tip.

AA
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: mattihorn on September 02, 2008, 12:47:24 PM
(http://www.world-famous.com/DavidHamelStuff/Hamel-photos.html/egiption.gif) (http://www.futurehorizons.net/HAMP_sm.jpg)

Google translator: (hope it worked!)
Esoterischen Wissens, dass David davon gesprochen, in Bezug auf die Physik, ist die Macht von Gott oder Blitzschlag. Er verwies auf das als Funke. Es sind Funken der ganzen Magnete, wenn die Maschine ger?t in ein ausreichendes Vibrationen. Sie akkumulieren.

Es ist der Blitz ist die skalare. Macht von Gott gemacht manifestieren.

Auch, wie funktioniert der 3CD und sonstige verwandte Physik Arbeit mit der Interaktion auf der ZPE? Es ist durch Vibrationen, aber es ist auch durch das Yin und Yang.

Wurmloch Physik. Wei?es Loch schwarzes Loch. Viele Male wiederholt von David ?ber sich selbst zu mir und anderen im Gespr?ch. Sie erstellen Mikro schwarze L?cher der Tunnel in der ZPE und ziehen Energie aus den wei?en L?chern. Gleichzeitige Gr?ndung von Mikrounternehmen Schwarz-Wei?-L?cher. Tausende, wenn nicht mehr, vielleicht Millionen auftreten alle auf einmal auf den Nullpunkt befindet sich zwischen den Magneten heben. Diese sammeln sich zusammen und du bekommst einen stetigen Fluss.

Amplification Physik. Diese Physik nennt man Verst?rkung Physik. Sie nehmen nur wenig, was es ist und verst?rken das Ergebnis durch Resonanz.

Da es sich um gebundene alle in dem Gebiet, sind Sie greift auf eine sehr gro?e Quelle von Roh-Universal Power.


Esoteric knowledge that David talked about in regards to the physics, is the power of God or lightning. He referred to this as spark. There are sparks all over the magnets when the machine gets into a sufficient vibration. They accumulate.

It is lightning which is the scalar. Power of God made manifest.

Also, how does the 3CD and any other related physics work with the interaction to the ZPE? It is through vibration, but it is also through the yin and yang.

Wormhole physics. White hole black hole. Repeated many times over from David himself to me and others in talk. You are creating micro black holes which tunnel into the ZPE and draw energy out using the white holes. Simultaneous creation of micro black and white holes. Thousands if not more, perhaps millions occurring all at once at the zero point located between the bucking magnets. These accumulate together and you get a steady flow.

Amplification physics. These physics are called amplification physics. They take what little there is and amplify the result through resonance.

Since it is all tied into the field, you are grabbing at a very large source of raw universal power.
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: AnandAadhar on September 02, 2008, 01:13:39 PM
One may buy the damn Mythbusters replication video for 21,95 at Discovery Channel:
http://shopping.discovery.com/product-64721.html?jzid=40588004-59-0
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: Steven Dufresne on September 02, 2008, 05:26:42 PM
@Stefan, If you feel there's an issue regarding the use of English language here can you copy this thread to an English area?

Here's a link to that article: http://arxiv.org/abs/0710.1565
The title is "Ballistic Transport at Uniform Temperature",
and although neither the abstract nor the papers intro mention
Hamel, you will see a picture of a typical Hamel "spinner"
on page 2 already and Hamels name mentioned right below the pic.
It is an analysis of the spinner. And the conclusion sounds
really interesting, I think... :)
@Koen1, You're right, it is interesting. And even though the intent of the 3 cone device is to wobble rather than spin, I wonder if the same white noise/thermal principle would keep wobbling going. The friction issue is a little different. Thanks for digging this up.

@mattihorn, Thanks for sharing what David told you. It sure sounds like what he told me too, but now that I can to read it slowly, it's a lot clearer. I most clearly recall the part about the holes in between the magnets where the zero point appears.

Your mention of sparks also reminded me of when I asked David about how in my Mark 1 drum I'd attached the ring of magnets that repell the cone rim magnets directly to the inside of the drum (well, to aluminium ring that was attached to the inside of the drum.) He told me not to do that otherwise I'd get electrocuted. That's why in my Mark 2 drum I attached them to an aluminium ring that was held in place by a plastic frame.

So, there's a charge built up on the drum. I wonder which way he did it and if the reference to electrocution was because he got a shock. I can see sparks happening from the drum wall to the cone rim, i.e. all around the magnets, if a potential difference/voltage builds up between the drum and the cones as a result of whatever is going on. If it kept building up unchecked it would arc/spark occasionally. Either that or that sparks are the energy being tapped around the magnets.

One may buy the damn Mythbusters replication video for 21,95 at Discovery Channel:
http://shopping.discovery.com/product-64721.html?jzid=40588004-59-0
Thanks AnandAadhar. Now is it worth me spending money just to satisfy my curiosity as to how good or bad a job they did?
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
Title: Re: David Hamel Generator.
Post by: mattihorn on September 02, 2008, 11:58:48 PM
Quote from: Steve
Your mention of sparks also reminded me of when I asked David about how in my Mark 1 drum I'd attached the ring of magnets that repell the cone rim magnets directly to the inside of the drum (well, to aluminium ring that was attached to the inside of the drum.) He told me not to do that otherwise I'd get electrocuted. That's why in my Mark 2 drum I attached them to an aluminium ring that was held in place by a plastic frame.

So, there's a charge built up on the drum. I wonder which way he did it and if the reference to electrocution was because he got a shock. I can see sparks happening from the drum wall to the cone rim, i.e. all around the magnets, if a potential difference/voltage builds up between the drum and the cones as a result of whatever is going on. If it kept building up unchecked it would arc/spark occasionally. Either that or that sparks are the energy being tapped around the magnets.

Yeah, the charge we can expect is going to be immense when we get close to resonance.
Thicker discharges with bigger equipment of course. More power brought in from the point of nothing.
As far as building charge up until electrocution. No idea. Never seen it yet. I would like to though!
It is a good idea to isolate the shell from the frame and ground out the shell as per Chris Felton, from what I understand.
Old news but good for new comers to understand.

David mentioned using a black light for viewing the discharges. Turn the 3CD on in the dark and turn on the black light. Things should appear easier to see.

Matt