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Hydrogen energy => Electrolysis of H20 and Hydrogen on demand generation => Topic started by: KilltheMessenger on June 24, 2008, 07:13:55 PM

Title: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: KilltheMessenger on June 24, 2008, 07:13:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSnSxAMjXq8

Once you look at that, then check this out.

www.teslamotors.com

Don't Kill the Messenger
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: newbie123 on June 24, 2008, 07:35:07 PM

How about a hydrogen booster that most likely works.  http://www.ronnmotors.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4&Itemid=14
This company is using an legitimate hydrogen generator from http://www.hydrorunner.com/products.html

They claim their car gets 40mpg and 0-60 in 3.5 sec.  See test data as well.



Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: Jokker on June 24, 2008, 08:22:37 PM
Idea is not bad....

There are always ppl who say no and say yes.
Anyway video says that it does not work, may be true may be false...

But what about second part of video cars with hydrolysis cells on board ?

On the other hand what about Stanley Meyers work, they are not giving patents away for nothing.
Also u may be interested about tease guys who build up tease things but are not getting any surprising results.
What about this place ... overunity.com  any1 can tell 100 % that hes saving at least 30 % fuel.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: KilltheMessenger on June 24, 2008, 08:48:07 PM
The cars that are being built today that utilize any form of Hydrogen, are using it in the form of a fuel cell to generate electric to drive an electric motor.  Both Ford and Honda are making beta models of a FCV (Fuel Cell Vehicle).  Ford has some of them in Florida, and some in Michigan. They utilize a fill station that is own by BP.  I do not know what Honda is doing to test their FCV, or when either will release a model for sale.
As for the gains realized by certain individuals, I do not want to start a war of words, I only want to state facts.  One of the modifications needed to realize fuel savings is the MAP, or MAF adjuster that many of you have built. This device alone, will increase your fuel savings, but you would also be breaking a federal law by installing it into your vehicle.  The extra rich mixture used in your car, is not to make the oil company rich, it is used to help the catalytic converter burn off the emissions that would pollute our atmosphere. Modifying that device is against the law. While you save yourself a few dollars a month on gas, you pollute the air that we breath. Had this device not ever been put into cars in the first place, we would have all choked on the fumes a long time ago. Some will claim that the introduction of HHO will null that pollution, I say prove it.
Anyone that does not believe that the car companies would have produced an HHO module in their newest car lines if there were any truth to it, is living in a fantasy world. Every car company would love to sell a million cars  if all they had to do was introduce HHO to the system, and give us a car that can get 75 MPG. One that is not the size of a shoebox, running on two cylinders.
Yes, some have been burning HHO and making people believe that it works, but the HHo generators they built are huge, and require a lot of power to run. The Meyers design has not been duplicated, or proved to ever work, or to do anymore then generate HHO.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: resonanceman on June 24, 2008, 09:19:20 PM
This  topic  is  brought  to you  by big oil ........and  the small minds  of those that are profiting  from  our  dependance on  their  oil



gary
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: sigmaX on June 24, 2008, 09:55:23 PM
THis is quite easily proved or discarded:

I got my HHO CELL ready to install in my car. I will call the autotest lab for the gas emisions test price. If it is not "THAT" expensive, I will try to do it FIRST, before installing the cell.

THen I will install it, use the car for a week, test the gain or loose in gas efficiency and also go and try another gas emisions test.

If it is too expensive, I Will give out my paypal if anyone wants to support me :) I will take pictures of the whole process... actually ... here you have my HHO CELL:

Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: innovation_station on June 24, 2008, 10:44:34 PM
nice cell ...

may i make a few suggestions ...

ok get rid of any metal connectors in the can!!! the clear vynal tubbing is crap use reienforcied at the min .. also  unless that is sch40 pvc or abs  you may have a problem with that too

just some insight form my own mistakes  ;) ;)

looks great othe wise

ist
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: KilltheMessenger on June 24, 2008, 10:52:50 PM
What kind of volume are you getting out of that cell? Also, what is the draw at 14volts?
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: sigmaX on June 24, 2008, 10:57:19 PM
Hi Innovation_station and Killthemessenger:

Innovation_station: Thanks for your comments. You are right. Anyway I think I can get away with it: Let me explain:

This is a prototype. It is not intended to be used more than 7-10 days, just to validate the second part of the experiment: The electronics.

The main container and the bubbler  is cut from PVC water drain 100mm and 40mm piping, and the pvc wall is quite resistant (5 or so mm of pvc worth). I had the choice of thinner PVC, but I kept the "strong pipe".

The cell will be located outside the motor compartment itself: My car has the motor compartment, then the radiator, then the nose of the car,  which goes a bit longer, for (dubious) aesthetic / air drag motives, and there is lots of space between the place where the radiator is, and the car's nose, which is hooded, cold, and away of any mechanical parts. Even 20 cm or more from the radiator.

I am planning to put it in there. Then the bubbler will go in the motor compartment, but well apart from any heat source. the AIR intake is almost in there, right at hand from the place I am putting the cell, and the bubbler might even be right below air intake.

Also, down here we are in winter time (and there is no freezing temperature).

The valve you see, it is a "one way valve" that actually is of little use, because water is slowly passing backwards thru it (it only resists if certain pressure is going backwards, but not only the water weight itself). I will eliminate it.

I wonder: what happens if I place the HHO output right into the air intake hole (and do not try to puncture, connect it nearer the motor ?) The HHO will surely travel all the way up to the motor! ? or it will be converted to H20 Again, for example, when hitting the air filter ?) any idea ?

Regards,

SigmaX

EDIT: I have yet to measure liters, but I think it will be on the 1 / 2 liters per minute. Anyway After I measure it, I will reconfigure my stainless steel plates. Right now there are 16 of them, measuring each one 15cm x 5cm, in a +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- configuration (with about 1 mm of separation among them). But I take this way of placing them is way to dangerous (any of them touching each other, will produce a short circuit / spark !!!)

SO I did this just to see how much HHO I generate, I will test it (lots of bubbles at 10 amps / 11 volts) and then I will switch to the more safe + n n n n n n - cell type.

Killthemessegner: Amps go in direct proportion to how much electrolyte I place. With distilled water, it uses up like 1   or 2 amps, but almost no HHO production. If I place TAP WATER, it goes into 8 or 10 amps. If I place distilled water with a teaspon full of baking soda, it just eat too much (more than 15 amps) and my C.B. transformer shuts itself down.

I ordered a PWM circuit, from Hydrogen garage (shame on me, didn?t build it myself! ) just to try to pulse things a bit in different frecuencies and see how does it go.

I DONT LIKE to use 30 amps ... even 10 amps gets me the chills. I would LOVE to see 1 or more HHO litres with 10 or less amps.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: newbie123 on June 24, 2008, 11:26:18 PM
KilltheMessenger,   

See this:

http://www.hydrorunner.com/data/atds.pdf

Looks like 3rd party test data for the efficiency of a hydrogen booster in a diesel.  Do you think these guys are full of it?  Why don't you call them instead of coming here, and talking about something that you really have no idea about....   

Or would you complain about a dirt powered car as well?


Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: KilltheMessenger on June 25, 2008, 03:50:30 AM
I currently have HHO running in my Ford F150. I generate 32 Liters per hour and have a loss of 2 mpg, on average when I have the generator on. I have CO2 stand-off's installed, and have not been able to measure any differnece they have made. You can see my system on youtube under KillTheMessengers I''ve put many hours into my design, and it works to generate HHo very well, and it will make a great july 4th noise maker. I am not alone and I dare any of you who doubt my words to come forward and say that you have gained 20%, or 40% in gas mileage by using HHO. It simply can not work. The only gain is realized when the MAF sensor voltage is adjusted to make the vehicle run very lean. Running your vehicle very lean is dangerous to the health of the engine, but I still insist that tricking the MAF readings  is the only gain in mileage that anyone has seen. My words are backed by research, and  testing,  I did this with a group of very smart people, of which only one doubted that it would work. We all greed in the end, that you can't generate enough HHO to benefit your gas mileage in any normal vehicle.The alternator drag on my engine, ate any benefit I might have seen, and i nthe end, gave me a reduction in MPG.  When you have your own testing to speak of, then open you mouth and give us facts, otherwise, keep it to yourself. Don't tell me about what others have done, tell me about what you have done.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: utilitarian on June 25, 2008, 03:53:37 AM
KilltheMessenger,   

See this:

http://www.hydrorunner.com/data/atds.pdf

Looks like 3rd party test data for the efficiency of a hydrogen booster in a diesel.  Do you think these guys are full of it?  Why don't you call them instead of coming here, and talking about something that you really have no idea about....   

Or would you complain about a dirt powered car as well?


Have you actually read the report you are posting?  I ask, because it is not exactly thorough.

1.  The testing company, per instructions, relied only on the on-board computer as far as documenting gas efficiency.  So no actual measurement of gasoline used was done.  If the onboard computer is not giving true readings, then the test results will not be accurate.

2.  The testing company, per instructions, did not examine the booster device at all.  This means there could have been fuel hidden in the booster device being added to the system.

Obviously, this is speculation, and we do not know what really happened.  But I am curious, why didn't the Check Engine LLC outfit just pay to have a real test done?  Why did they skimp on these vital details?
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: newbie123 on June 25, 2008, 04:23:15 AM
KillTheMessenger,   1.8L /minute isn't much for a big 5.4L engine.   And if you came in and posted your results, without the agenda, and assumption that everyone with a HHO booster system is wasting their time.. you'd have more credibility. 

Utilitarian, maybe the tests were too expensive? Maybe the computer results are accurate? Maybe it's a big scam?  Who knows..  But the testing company is credible..  And the test results are better than nothing, and more interesting than all the HHO bubble makers you see on Youtube. 

http://www.ronnmotors.com/   ...Contact these guys... They claim to increase their mpg from 28 to 40 (i believe)



Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: KilltheMessenger on June 25, 2008, 02:30:00 PM
Put us in touch with an actual satisfied customer instead.  I am waiting on the St Lucie Sheriff's department , who bought two units from the Jupiter Florida company that got air time on the evening news here in South Florida.  The Sherrif bought two units at $1200 each, and is having them installed in two patrol cars. The results will be aired on TV. The test will run for a month. If they work, they will buy 350 more for all of their patrol cars. I say that they will never buy, not even one more HHo generator form anyone. They probably won't toss them in jail for fraud, but it will be a inconclusive test that offers more questions instead of answers.   



http://www.ronnmotors.com/   ...Contact these guys... They claim to increase their mpg from 28 to 40 (i believe)




Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: innovation_station on June 25, 2008, 04:23:00 PM
intersting consveration


i can not confirm any tests in a car  as i have not installed a unit in a car yet ...

the tests i have done are all in the house  i do have the safty devices installed but not the cell yet as i must find a good cell design b4 i do any installing in my car 

how ever im pretty sure the last cell i built will serve the perpous i have let it run 5 hours 2 times now the draw is right around 20 amps after 3 hours of run time  it starts at 10 amp cold and climbs up to 20+-  i have a 25 amp curcuit breaker and it never tripped in 5 hours  im useing a 30 amp relay  ;D

all is well so far with this design  but i must keep testing b4 im satistifed to install it

ist

a pic  ????     ok   lol
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: innovation_station on June 25, 2008, 04:25:49 PM
silly site wants me to post it twice


hummm....

ist
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: epwpixieq-1 on June 25, 2008, 05:03:53 PM
Have you actually read the report you are posting?  I ask, because it is not exactly thorough.

1.  The testing company, per instructions, relied only on the on-board computer as far as documenting gas efficiency.  So no actual measurement of gasoline used was done.  If the onboard computer is not giving true readings, then the test results will not be accurate.

2.  The testing company, per instructions, did not examine the booster device at all.  This means there could have been fuel hidden in the booster device being added to the system.

Obviously, this is speculation, and we do not know what really happened.  But I am curious, why didn't the Check Engine LLC outfit just pay to have a real test done?  Why did they skimp on these vital details?


Usually measurements done with computes are quite accurate. In the rare case when they are not, usually due to some system misconfiguration, there will be d(x) inherited systematical functional error. As this error is permanent for the given state of the system, it will change the base line as well as the tests ( as given on page 3 in the report ) . From this follow that if there is any system imperfection inherited in the measurement it will be in the both tests data so it is illogical to say and imply that the computer system may error only the part of the data measuring possible fuel savings.

SAS
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: utilitarian on June 25, 2008, 05:15:08 PM
Usually measurements done with computes are quite accurate. In the rare case when they are not, usually due to some system misconfiguration, there will be d(x) inherited systematical functional error. As this error is permanent for the given state of the system, it will change the base line as well as the tests ( as given on page 3 in the report ) . From this follow that if there is any system imperfection inherited in the measurement it will be in the both tests data so it is illogical to say and imply that the computer system may error only the part of the data measuring possible fuel savings.

SAS

I agree that any error with the computer would also be exhibited in the control, and also, probably, the ability to tamper with the computer is something outside the capabilities of most small outfits like this.  Still, it is possible that when the booster is activated, it could affect the computer in some way.  So why not simply measure fuel consumption in a way that you are sure is free from tampering?

Anyway, the non-examination of the booster device is what I have a real problem with.  There is nothing to indicate that the booster tested is the same device that is being sold.  This is a major flaw in the test.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: KilltheMessenger on June 25, 2008, 05:53:56 PM
The only thing I have to go on, is logic.  If they could build any device that would give positive results, then why wouldn't that be the device they are selling to everyone? At $1200 each, it would be hard to not make a profit, unless they used titanium, and gold parts in the real device. I don't think that this process is a matter of what metals are used. Most all metals will produce HHO, but only the best will work for a long time without degrading into mush.  Nobody is saying that HHo can't be created, or that large amounts of HHO can't be created, or that the HHO isn't explosive and carries a huge amount of energy. All that is being said, is that the load on the alternator, needed to generate a large enough supply of HHO to benefit most engines, is never going to balance out to over unity. The amount of energy created, is going to be less than the energy needed to create that energy. There will be a loss if the energy is converted to any other form.

  There is nothing to indicate that the booster tested is the same device that is being sold.  This is a major flaw in the test.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: newbie123 on June 25, 2008, 06:31:29 PM
 Who in their right mind would sell multiple  HHO booster devices to a Sheriff's Dept. knowing the device doesn't work?




Ok, Let's assume that we don't know everything about nature/physics for a second...

What else could actually be going on inside the engine of a HHO booster vehicle to improve performance, other than the actual energy from the Hydrogen.   

Could the HHO gas be cooling the engine, and improving the performance?

Could the compression or heat of the engine + hydroxy gas + water be adding energy somehow?

Is steam adding energy as well?


If the system does actually work, there probably xtra energy is coming from something other than HHO gas.



Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: utilitarian on June 25, 2008, 06:39:44 PM
Who in their right mind would sell multiple  HHO booster devices to a Sheriff's Dept. knowing the device doesn't work?

Ok, Let's assume that we don't know everything about nature/physics for a second...

What else could actually be going on inside the engine of a HHO booster vehicle to improve performance, other than the actual energy from the Hydrogen.   

Could the HHO gas be cooling the engine, and improving the performance?

Could the compression or heat of the engine + hydroxy gas + water be adding energy somehow?

Is steam adding energy as well?
If the system does actually work, there probably xtra energy is coming from something other than HHO gas.

They sell the devices to everybody.  What are they supposed to do when someone buys them, say no?

As far as the other effects you mentioned.  Just think about what you are saying for a second.  Do you know how many millions of manhours have been spent by car companies trying to figure out the most efficient way to build an engine?  Do you think that something as simple as cooling or changing the pressure in the cylinder has been overlooked?  If it was that simple to increase fuel mileage by the amounts claimed, every car maker would be doing it.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: newbie123 on June 25, 2008, 07:49:12 PM

Well, the ICE is about 25 percent efficient, and has been for ..... What? 100 years?     The personal computer has evolved from dirt and is already 100000000x better in the last 30 years.

Tell me that sounds right.



Why not use something as basic as waste heat recovery (steam) to improve engine performance?   There's a 10 percent, at least, increase.

Why not recovery all the energy lost while breaking (with hydrolics, or some other energy recovery device)   ... There's another 20 percent increase..



These are very simple, and old, technologies, and probably easy to implement.   But they're even available yet? Why?



You can't honestly say something isn't fishy about this? Can you?

Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: whopper1967 on June 25, 2008, 08:01:03 PM
Apparently they were not too concerned,they never used the pogue type carbeurators that vaporized gas and got hundreds of miles to the gallon.Matter of fact,the shell oil company used to hold a yearly mpg contest,there were several cars that got at least 300 mpg,one that comes to mind recently was discovered and sold on ebay.It was an opel with some very interesting mods,it is a well know fact that liquid gas isnt burnt in engines,if you could vaporize the gas like they did in these carbs,well you get the picture,thats the whole point of catalytic converters,to finish buring the gas.Anyway,if you think the auto industry always has your best interest at heart,why are there so many new cars produced that have sooooo many problems with hardly any miles on them?They could make cars last a million miles if they wanted,yet even when they are taken care of,most dont last a hundred thousand without some major problems,except for toyota.....they rule...lol,wish i had one.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: utilitarian on June 25, 2008, 08:08:04 PM
Well, the ICE is about 25 percent efficient, and has been for ..... What? 100 years?     The personal computer has evolved from dirt and is already 100000000x better in the last 30 years.

Tell me that sounds right.

Why not use something as basic as waste heat recovery (steam) to improve engine performance?   There's a 10 percent, at least, increase.

Why not recovery all the energy lost while breaking (with hydrolics, or some other energy recovery device)   ... There's another 20 percent increase..

These are very simple, and old, technologies, and probably easy to implement.   But they're even available yet? Why?

There is nothing fishy here.  Braking energy regeneration is already in place in hybrid vehicles.  As for recapture of wasted heat, well, it's a complicated process.  There are economic and efficiency tradeoffs for everything.  If you have an economically viable way to make use of the excess heat generated by an ICE, let's have it.

For an example, look at turbocharging.  This is an old and proven technology to make an ICE more efficient.  Yet its drawbacks and costs keep it from being implemented across the board.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: hydrocontrol on June 25, 2008, 09:00:39 PM
Modern computer controlled engine systems are not designed to just add hydrogen and have the mileage improve without modifications made to the computer system to change the mixture and timing. You would have much better improvement in a standard points and condenser type car system. I believe that is one reason the automotive industry went to computer control is to try to prevent changing the fuel source. The fuel industry also came up with 'additives' that were 'suppose' to improve the fuel 'burn' but actually just watered down the fuel so you would use more. So in this regard KilltheMessenger is correct. About 90% of the modern computer controlled cars will not see any improvement in fuel economy by just adding HHO as the car computer will just change the operating parameters. So the basic 'off the shelf' add a HHO source to your engine will not work as the modern car engine has been designed to run on 'selected fuels'.  As for running and engine on more water than gas just check out the JLN website for his lawn mower engine running 80% water 20% gasoline. Reforming with the PMC. Off the shelf plumbing parts.

http://bingofuel.online.fr/bingofuel/pmcjlnen.htm

The method has been used on all sorts of engines. Just check the links. I would suggest people actually try a reformer on a simple engine first just to get prove that it actually works. People really need to open their eyes. The truth is you can run a simple engine on mostly water but a 'computerized designed to run only on gasoline engine'  is not going to be easy to run on any other fuel then the designed 'gasoline'.  No need to spend $ 1,200.00 for proof when you can spend less than $ 50.00 on some plumbing parts that will have positive results to show you can run an engine on water. Trying to improve the mileage of a modern car that has been designed "not" to be improved will never get good results and if you try there are EPA laws about engine modifications that will have the government coming after you for modifying your engine.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: newbie123 on June 25, 2008, 09:23:53 PM


So far   it seems Hydrogen boosted Diesels are the way to go. 
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: newbie123 on June 25, 2008, 10:02:32 PM
Braking energy regeneration is already in place in hybrid vehicles.  As for recapture of wasted heat, well, it's a complicated process.

Brake energy recovery could have been here 30+ years ago, it's not a new concept.

Why is waste heat recovery a complicated process? 

What I'm saying is there hasn't been a real objective for car companies (+oil and gov), (and public) to improve fuel economy up until like 2 years ago...  4 years ago 10mpg SUVs were getting pushed to the public. 

And if you think automakers have dumped all sorts of money into fuel efficiency you're nuts.  They care about one thing: money.










Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: WilbyInebriated on June 25, 2008, 10:09:12 PM
They sell the devices to everybody.  What are they supposed to do when someone buys them, say no?

As far as the other effects you mentioned.  Just think about what you are saying for a second.  Do you know how many millions of manhours have been spent by car companies trying to figure out the most efficient way to build an engine?  Do you think that something as simple as cooling or changing the pressure in the cylinder has been overlooked?  If it was that simple to increase fuel mileage by the amounts claimed, every car maker would be doing it.

think about what you are saying for a second... yes they may have spent many hours figuring out the most efficient way to BUILD an engine but that does NOT make it the most efficient engine by any stretch of your imagination. they spend very little time trying to build a more efficient engine. its NOT what the public wants. the public wants monster SUV's and hummers.
race teams research, design and build more efficient engines, not the automakers that spew out whatever they have convinced the public to want via their feedback loop of television.

there is something fishy here. why is there no braking regeneration in non hybrids? economically viable way to make use of waste heat?  try a sterling or a peltier device...
of course it's that simple, the problem is is that the auto manufacturers don't pay your gas bill or electric bill so they really don't care. they are not interested in spending a couple hundred extra dollars per vehicle in the manufacture if they don't have to.
the computers are not hard to reprogram, i can do it in your garage with a laptop.
again i have to ask you utilitarian if you just talk a lot or if you have ever actually built something. it is clear you don't have much 'hands on' knowledge about automobiles.

google McMullen’s 1959 Opel P-1 Hardtop... 376.59 m.p.g.  IN 1973!!!
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: Haliburton on June 25, 2008, 11:32:40 PM
hey i have a 1969 opel GT for sale 500 bucks obo

Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: hydrocontrol on June 25, 2008, 11:49:39 PM
think about what you are saying for a second... yes they may have spent many hours figuring out the most efficient way to BUILD an engine but that does NOT make it the most efficient engine by any stretch of your imagination. they spend very little time trying to build a more efficient engine. its NOT what the public wants. the public wants monster SUV's and hummers.
race teams research, design and build more efficient engines, not the automakers that spew out whatever they have convinced the public to want via their feedback loop of television.

What you state is so true... Even then race teams are limited in what they can design and build in order to fit into the 'racing rules'. There are a lot better and efficient engine designs such as the Bourke engine.
http://www.bourke-engine.com/

The auto industry does not want to build more efficient engines. Not in their interest as it would 'cost them money' and it would cost their bed buddies the oil companies in less revenue from selling less gas. Not going to happen in the US for awhile. Now maybe a country like Japan that has to import almost all their oil..  Oh wait.. they are producing more efficient engines and hybrids as well. Too bad the US auto makers can not get a clue. Maybe they will get a clue after all their sales go flat but then the government will likely bail them out. A shame..
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: exxcomm0n on June 26, 2008, 12:25:56 AM
hey i have a 1969 opel GT for sale 500 bucks obo


@ haliburton

How's the body? Does it run?

Answer me those and you might have a sale. I had one once, and I miss it.

@ all

As long as popular fuel usage is petroleum based, oil companies and car companies will preform "Neal and Bob" services to each other.
If you can't see that, you need to stop thinking of the school economics and start observing real world economics.

I'm going HHO on a early 90's Toyota Camry that already gets 33 MPG city/highway milage (it even better on road trips).
Why aren't most present day vehicles able to have this kind of mileage?

Since folks like going to the Tube so much, do a search for "HHO VW" and find videos from a guy using it in his VW van.
He's using real world gas tank filling/division methods to chart MPG.
Check this one here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJsONDo_jVg

Remember, this is a machine made during the 70's when MPG wasn't even heard of.

....and before you get all huffy and say we get MUCH gas mileage these days, start trying to FIND, let alone compare MPG ratings for a truck or car.

It used to be the lead off for the commercials, and give it a couple of years, and I bet it will be again because by that time oil prices will be so hiked that oil companies can still make the record breaking profits they are RIGHT NOW with more fuel efficient vehicles being offered.

Why didn't fuel economy STAY as the #1 selling point for a vehicle vs. wanting a very capable off road vehicle with horrendous efficiency so you can be like "Arnie" (Arnold Schwartzenegger)?

BTW, how does the reported MPG for your truck in it's specs compare to real world use?

All things to consider man.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: exxcomm0n on June 26, 2008, 02:25:35 AM
Just one more that explain why things are the way they are......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZqz75nMuC8

He "says" he's getting improved performance and mileage in his S-10.

Maybe you should get a chevy.

:D
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: utilitarian on June 26, 2008, 02:59:25 AM
The auto industry does not want to build more efficient engines. Not in their interest as it would 'cost them money' and it would cost their bed buddies the oil companies in less revenue from selling less gas. Not going to happen in the US for awhile. Now maybe a country like Japan that has to import almost all their oil..  Oh wait.. they are producing more efficient engines and hybrids as well. Too bad the US auto makers can not get a clue. Maybe they will get a clue after all their sales go flat but then the government will likely bail them out. A shame..

You contradict yourself in the same paragraph.  First you say that the car companies are too friendly with the oil companies.  Then you say that the Japanese are not.  Well, since Japan does not have much of an oil industry, and you are conceding that Japanese automakers have been making fuel efficient cars for some time, why haven't the Japanese automakers jumped on the HHO-on-demand bandwagon?  Wouldn't they just love to broaden their market share by a huge amount?  How about this for a selling point - same Honda Accord, but now with 50 to 60 MPG.

Only one reason why they do not incorporate HHO-on-demand -- it doesn't result in fuel savings.  And how can it?  You are using the inefficient gasoline engine to make HHO, suffering losses in the conversion process, and then in turn using that HHO to supplement that same engine.  This sort of bootstrapping adds losses to the process with no payoff.  You may as well have a container of crude oil somewhere and use your engine to first refine the crude oil and then use the resulting gasoline.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: KilltheMessenger on June 26, 2008, 04:31:49 AM
Maybe you have not considered how much technology has come in the last 30 years? Lithium Batteries, and too many other chemicals, compounds, and such have made some things appear easy to do today, but impossible to do 30 years ago.
The news on Honda's FCV, is that it is in production now. Even though ford has a bunch of FCV on the road in testing, I didn't hear anything about production yet. I imagine that there would have to be fill stations in place before they could sel any of them. Why could they not put a fill station at every Honda dealer. I guess it would depend on how long a fuel cell would run befoe needing to be filled, or maybe replaced. Making it a user replacable part would be the way to go. Did anyone bother to look at www.teslamotors.com   100% lithium powered car that can blow the doors off of most any gas powered car on the road. Zero to 60 in 3.9 seconds, 2 cents per mile = 256 MPG, 220 miles per charge, 100% electric. Too bad we can't afford one. At least I can't, or won't,

Brake energy recovery could have been here 30+ years ago, it's not a new concept.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: hydrocontrol on June 26, 2008, 07:24:30 AM
Only one reason why they do not incorporate HHO-on-demand -- it doesn't result in fuel savings.  And how can it?  You are using the inefficient gasoline engine to make HHO, suffering losses in the conversion process, and then in turn using that HHO to supplement that same engine.  This sort of bootstrapping adds losses to the process with no payoff.  You may as well have a container of crude oil somewhere and use your engine to first refine the crude oil and then use the resulting gasoline.

I agree that a using a normal car engine is not a good way to run it off HHO. Perhaps designing an engine from the ground up that will run of HHO-on-demand is a better solution. Do you think a US company will do it ? Not likely. Too much effort. But wait.. It looks like a company in japan already has a water fueled car.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vPq1exwMaUs
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: utilitarian on June 26, 2008, 09:01:25 AM
I agree that a using a normal car engine is not a good way to run it off HHO. Perhaps designing an engine from the ground up that will run of HHO-on-demand is a better solution. Do you think a US company will do it ? Not likely. Too much effort. But wait.. It looks like a company in japan already has a water fueled car.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vPq1exwMaUs

I do concede that I am very perplexed by their car.  I just do not understand the point of making HHO on board.  I have not read the available materials very thoroughly, but I am assuming that the energy to create the HHO is coming from a battery.  Then, a fuel cell converts the HHO into electrical current, which drives the car.  The natural question there, is why bother with the HHO?  Just use the battery to drive the car.  I guess we will know more in time, or perhaps I am missing something.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: innovation_station on June 26, 2008, 02:48:20 PM
now i was reading some where that thease units can pull somthing like 6 amps per cubic inch of water  :o

im no ee but that seams like a lot of power 2 me

oh i read this in an old book called the way things work it was published in the 60's 8)

ill see if i cant post the pages form the book ....

ist
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: KilltheMessenger on June 26, 2008, 03:02:52 PM
The current draw is dependent on the type of, strength of , and temperature of the electrolyte used, and the surface area of the conducting material. Not to mention the supply voltage.  I'm not any kind of engineer, but to say it draws 6 amps per cubic inch of water, makes no sense. Find another book.

now i was reading some where that these units can pull something like 6 amps per cubic inch of water  :o

im no ee but that seams like a lot of power 2 me

oh i read this in an old book called the way things work it was published in the 60's 8)

ill see if i cant post the pages form the book ....

ist
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: hydrocontrol on June 26, 2008, 03:34:21 PM
I do concede that I am very perplexed by their car.  I just do not understand the point of making HHO on board.  I have not read the available materials very thoroughly, but I am assuming that the energy to create the HHO is coming from a battery.  Then, a fuel cell converts the HHO into electrical current, which drives the car.  The natural question there, is why bother with the HHO?  Just use the battery to drive the car.  I guess we will know more in time, or perhaps I am missing something.

Here is another thread here at overunity.com that seems to have more information on the technology..

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4929.0;topicseen
Title: Take a better look......
Post by: innovation_station on June 26, 2008, 04:15:27 PM
The current draw is dependent on the type of, strength of , and temperature of the electrolyte used, and the surface area of the conducting material. Not to mention the supply voltage.  I'm not any kind of engineer, but to say it draws 6 amps per cubic inch of water, makes no sense. Find another book.


heres the # of the book you go read it it may answer a tonne of questions in fact i did for me  ;D

there many many kool things explained in the book

just look at the peizeo speeker   what ever happened to them

humm

just a tonne of great things in this book

the book is called volume 1 the way things work an illustrated encyclopedia of technology  simon and schuster new york

libary of congress catalog card number : 67-27972



quote right out of this book......


~~~~~~quote~~~~~

the Becon fuel cell {h202}cell  produces current of up to 6.5 amps/"2 at a temp of 240deg c  :P

page 52 :o

ist

Alex:  for 1000 what is the electroide metel used in this cell ?.....

what is nickel ....

CORRECT
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: KilltheMessenger on June 26, 2008, 04:22:25 PM
I'm not sure what that was pointing to, but the car that runs on water had a huge generator in the trunk. Where was the power to run the generator coming from? There are a lot of details left out of that car commercial.

For the other person who asked about the Fuel cell, and battery power. The Fuel Cell runs on pure Hydrogen, and it is compressed. This is something that we can't do very easily. It generates electric power to drive a motor. Hydrogen used for electric power is not the same as trying to generate and burn HHO in a gas engine. Search on Honda FCV, and Ford FCV and see what you find.

Here is another thread here at overunity.com that seems to have more information on the technology..

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4929.0;topicseen

Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: newbie123 on June 26, 2008, 04:44:30 PM
Another thing to think about.   If E=mc2 , one gallon has a lot more energy than a car knows what to do with.   

What if some of these water/HHO power devices/engines are extracting nuclear energy from water?   



Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: nschiet on June 26, 2008, 04:50:38 PM
killthemessngr
I seen ur vids on making cells on youtube,
last week u had 1 half in ur car u say it doesnt work now?
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: nschiet on June 26, 2008, 05:07:55 PM
Im still gunna try put a cell in an old scooter or so to try out :P
Just not going to credit card to any crappy lookin site.
free plans everywhere might B a nice hobby :)
got some stainless around here,
If they were crap i gues there should be loads of vids on the net of people ripping the cell out of their car and jump on it a few times.

Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: KilltheMessenger on June 26, 2008, 05:49:11 PM
Yes, I have it fully installed, and I used it today on the way into work.  The best mileage I ever got was 21.4 MPG, and that was without anything. I got 20.1 yesterday, with no HHO, and 20.5 today using HHO.  That is too close for any conclusive statement, but the test will get more accurate after the full trip at the end of the day. I will do mostly the same trip on both days, and I have not been able to get much over 20 on any day. Some days I am at 18 for the day, but only because I went on a lunch time trip to Home Depot, and that involved a lot of stop and go. The stopping is not so bad, but the going, is a real ball breaker.
To the person who said that 32 liters per hour is not enough. I say BS. If there is going to be confirmation beyond doubt when I reach twice as much, of three times as much HHO, why would I not see a minor improvement now?  It's not like the movie "Chain Reaction", where they reached self generation of HHO by hitting the water with the proper frequencies. Great movie, but total fiction.
Again, for those that have not read the entire thread, I have a 2004 Ford 5.4 liter Triton V8. I installed CO2 spacers, and I used a calibrated Scangauge II to keep track of my gas usuage realtime. I try to drive carefully  by cruising at 1100 RPM when possible. I monitor the engine load, and realtime MPG. I have one very steep short hill that i take a big hit on. The engine load hits in the 80% range on that hill. The best load is a low load, and 27 is a good number for high MPG. Going too slow is counter productive. Going too fast (over 55), is counter productive. I have to speed a little to get my best mileage, I go 38-40 in a 35. I continue to try and prove that HHo works, but I am more sure that it does not. I will continue because the damage to my wallet and time is done. It does not take much effort to keep track of things, and make minor changes.
if I have to generate much more HHo than i have, I have to utilize my tool box for a massive generator, and put myself in the dangerous position of draining too much power from my alternator/battery. The extra stress on the alternator can damage it, and that would be the icing on the cake, and the last nail in the coffin of HHO for me. My yourtube page will be updated to reflect my experience.

killthemessngr
I seen ur vids on making cells on youtube,
last week u had 1 half in ur car u say it doesnt work now?
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: hunter on June 26, 2008, 07:53:19 PM
For your 5.4 l v8 you need at least somewhere 8l/min to see some noticeable improvement. I have a v6 3.8 van, and I have two generators in. They make around 5l/min. and my gas millage went up from 22Miles/gal. to 28Miles/gal. and I haven't even installed my EFIE yet, only the O2 extenders. So don't say it's not working, you just need to make more HHO for that big monster.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: WilbyInebriated on June 26, 2008, 09:54:58 PM
so you have put a way small generator in a WAY big vehicle for a day or two and you are already more than sure it will not work?  ::) extra stress on the alternator? you driving around with the air conditioner on too?
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: KilltheMessenger on June 26, 2008, 10:14:46 PM
I live in Florida, and A/C is a must for me. I work in an office and I work for the power company, so the office is in the low 70's, while it is a humid 80 something outside. Plus I have allergies to most of what is outside. I think this happens to most of the people who transplant themselves to other parts of the country from where they were born and grew up..
In any case, I have to have A/C, and that that drags the mileage down a little, but all of my figures have been with A/C running. I could get above 21 MPG by just turning the A/C off, but not much higher. 
I have to check the draw on my current generator. The project is just now, catching up with the money I poured into it. The amp meters will be delivered tomorrow. My Fluke 87 will only measure up to 10 amps. I will either install the 30 amps meter I bought, or use the shunt with my fluke to increase its range.  I got the meter and shunt for less than one company wanted for the shunt alone. $10.95 for meter and shunt it pretty good.
If it will take a larger amount of HHO, I can take 1/2 of  the lower part of my tool box in the bed of my truck. That will be a very big generator. Making it run on under 15 amps will be a trick,  So tell me why I don't see any measurable increase in mileage from the HHo I feed my engine right now. Knowing a good reason for it, would make adding a lot more HHO easier to swallow.

so you have put a way small generator in a WAY big vehicle for a day or two and you are already more than sure it will not work?  ::) extra stress on the alternator? you driving around with the air conditioner on too?
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: WilbyInebriated on June 26, 2008, 10:21:25 PM
so you drive a big ass truck to sit in an office? and you 'think' that you 'need' AC. wants and needs are two very different things. so let me be very specific. you don't 'need' AC. humanity has survived for thousands of years with out it. your convenience is the only thing that demands its use, however you choose to rationalize it. i have allergies also and its 90 and humid here but i still ride my bike instead of driving a big ass truck to sit in an office. there are lots of reasons why you are not seeing a mpg increase. a ICE is a complex machine. here's a thought, try scaling your motor down...

sorry if i sound a little harsh, i really have no patience for someone driving a truck to an office job with the AC on the whole way and complaining about mileage. on top of that you have clearly stated that you built the 'box' and placed this tech squarely inside said 'box' already. ie: "It simply can not work."
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: KilltheMessenger on June 26, 2008, 11:12:18 PM
This is about all the people that show everyone a little mason jar of a generator and try to make people think that it is saving them 20 to 40% in gas.  That simply can't work. if you can generate some huge amount of HHO and run a motor on it, that can work, and I never said it can not. Its the delicate balance between what is easily possible, and what you can do if you have a load of money, and a place to put that big ass generator. As for my station in life, I have nothing to applogize for. I'm not rich, but if I am better off than you, well, sorry.  yes, i do need the A/C, but if I should end of a poor jobless person and have to do without it, I may hang out in the mall instead. :)


so you drive a big ass truck to sit in an office? and you 'think' that you 'need' AC. wants and needs are two very different things. so let me be very specific. you don't 'need' AC. humanity has survived for thousands of years with out it. your convenience is the only thing that demands its use, however you choose to rationalize it. i have allergies also and its 90 and humid here but i still ride my bike instead of driving a big ass truck to sit in an office. there are lots of reasons why you are not seeing a mpg increase. a ICE is a complex machine. here's a thought, try scaling your motor down...

sorry if i sound a little harsh, i really have no patience for someone driving a truck to an office job with the AC on the whole way and complaining about mileage. on top of that you have clearly stated that you built the 'box' and placed this tech squarely inside said 'box' already. ie: "It simply can not work."
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: hunter on June 26, 2008, 11:20:03 PM
I will make it simple for you. You have a big ass truck, so you need a big ass generator too what you have to pulse it with a pulse generator. So forget those little toys, what you fabricate from electric wallplates from Lowe's, because you need much more than that. An extra power generator would be a big plus in your case. Like I said my van only a v6 3.8l but I'm using two generators in it, and I'm also working on a generator, what will be 30" tall and will have 12 ss tube in it, similar like Meyer had.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: WilbyInebriated on June 26, 2008, 11:25:11 PM
This is about all the people that show everyone a little mason jar of a generator and try to make people think that it is saving them 20 to 40% in gas.  That simply can't work. if you can generate some huge amount of HHO and run a motor on it, that can work, and I never said it can not. Its the delicate balance between what is easily possible, and what you can do if you have a load of money, and a place to put that big ass generator. As for my station in life, I have nothing to applogize for. I'm not rich, but if I am better off than you, well, sorry.  yes, i do need the A/C, but if I should end of a poor jobless person and have to do without it, I may hang out in the mall instead. :)



you think rich = better off? LMFAO
one more time for the cheap seats...
you don't NEED AC, you WANT it.  again you confuse wants with needs.
i'm not asking you to apologize for your 'station' in life.

you are adding variables to your experiment that it (your experiment) could do without. are you tracking the ambient air temp? what formulas are you using to calculate how much power your AC robs your engine on any given day at any given outside temp? does the ambient outside air temp remain the same during your entire journey? does your vehicle remain in direct sunlight the entire journey?
reduce the variables, increase the amount of control elements.
oh yeah learn the difference between wanting and needing.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: WilbyInebriated on June 26, 2008, 11:41:31 PM
do you pay someone to change your oil or do you do it yourself? do you pay someone to tune up your vehicle or do you do it yourself?
can you rebuild your lawnmower engine? can you rebuild your vehicle engine? if you can't you really shouldn't be messing with this stuff until you have a little more working knowledge.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: utilitarian on June 27, 2008, 12:42:47 AM
you think rich = better off? LMFAO
one more time for the cheap seats...
you don't NEED AC, you WANT it.  again you confuse wants with needs.
i'm not asking you to apologize for your 'station' in life.

you are adding variables to your experiment that it (your experiment) could do without. are you tracking the ambient air temp? what formulas are you using to calculate how much power your AC robs your engine on any given day at any given outside temp? does the ambient outside air temp remain the same during your entire journey? does your vehicle remain in direct sunlight the entire journey?
reduce the variables, increase the amount of control elements.
oh yeah learn the difference between wanting and needing.

You are really caught up in this want/need thing.  We only "need" shelter, food and water, so hey, everything else is a want.  Haven't you ever "needed" a burger before?  Nope, sorry, raw meat, turnips and celery for you, my friend!

Here, maybe I can explain it better, as a fellow southerner.  We do not need A/C to survive, we just need it to be comfortable.

Back to topic, he used A/C in the same manner in the control, so what does it matter.  He drives to and from work same time each day.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: WilbyInebriated on June 27, 2008, 12:59:03 AM
i'm not caught up in anything. he seems to misunderstand the definitions of those two words. in FACT you don't even NEED shelter when its 80 outside... why are you repeating what i said?
as i said... "you don't 'need' AC. humanity has survived for thousands of years with out it. your convenience is the only thing that demands its use, however you choose to rationalize it".
your burger example is asinine, like most of your comments. you and i are not friends.

are you mental utilitarian? are you suggesting the exact same amount of energy from the sun was cast upon the cabin of his vehicle every second of his commute, every time he commuted? hardly a control element... is this an example of your 'bistro' science to compliment your 'bistro' math?
as you have previously admitted to being a has-been and a talking head, you seem to be caught up in talking out your ass a lot.

Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: utilitarian on June 27, 2008, 01:23:52 AM
i'm not caught up in anything. he seems to misunderstand the definitions of those two words. in FACT you don't even NEED shelter when its 80 outside... why are you repeating what i said?
as i said... "you don't 'need' AC. humanity has survived for thousands of years with out it. your convenience is the only thing that demands its use, however you choose to rationalize it".
your burger example is asinine, like most of your comments. you and i are not friends.

are you mental utilitarian? are you suggesting the exact same amount of energy from the sun was cast upon the cabin of his vehicle every second of his commute, every time he commuted? hardly a control element... is this an example of your 'bistro' science to compliment your 'bistro' math?
as you have previously admitted to being a has-been and a talking head, you seem to be caught up in talking out your ass a lot.

Has been?  I am as close to saving fuel through on-demand HHO as you are, so I have not missed anything.  He has repeated his experiment a few times, and the numbers are consistent.  It is highly unlikely that each time, there just happened to be more sun shining when the HHO was on.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: WilbyInebriated on June 27, 2008, 01:29:49 AM
Has been?  I am as close to saving fuel through on-demand HHO as you are, so I have not missed anything.  He has repeated his experiment a few times, and the numbers are consistent.  It is highly unlikely that each time, there just happened to be more sun shining when the HHO was on.

yes, HAS BEEN, and you forgot talking head.
no you're nowhere near as close as i am. i have replaced my fuel with on demand HHO entirely.
as far as this 'experiment' and your assumptions of... it is reminiscent of watching myth busters call their efforts science. there are no control elements. there are no measurements of any reliable sorts other than a fluke and a scangauge II...
WHERE IS THE DYNO?
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: hunter on June 27, 2008, 01:38:15 AM
i have replaced my fuel with on demand HHO entirely.
I think many of us would love to see your setup. If it is not a big favour to ask, please share it with us. ;)
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: WilbyInebriated on June 27, 2008, 01:44:02 AM
its simple, quit trying to scale your hho cell up, scale your motor down. get rid of EVERYTHING that it doesn't NEED to run.
try a 50cc motor before you try a v6 or v8...
and as i said before if you don't know how an ICE works learn that first. the induction, the exhaust, bore/stroke relationships, timing and spark, etc.
i will not make a noobtube video for speculation. i will not take pictures for speculation. i will not hold your hand.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: utilitarian on June 27, 2008, 02:28:30 AM
yes, HAS BEEN, and you forgot talking head.
no you're nowhere near as close as i am. i have replaced my fuel with on demand HHO entirely.
as far as this 'experiment' and your assumptions of... it is reminiscent of watching myth busters call their efforts science. there are no control elements. there are no measurements of any reliable sorts other than a fluke and a scangauge II...
WHERE IS THE DYNO?

You know, I take back what I said.  If you have a full-on HHO-on-demand system going, then you are ahead of the game.  Good luck in your endeavors.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: hunter on June 27, 2008, 05:26:31 PM
Well many people says many things, but until I see with my eyes the whole system running, well............. On the other hand, I just don't get it, some people come here to share information to help others to create something good to help the humanity, and some others just suck the informations in than after all the greed hold them back to share they results. May be I have to born again to understand this concept. :-\
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: WilbyInebriated on June 27, 2008, 05:37:47 PM
Well many people says many things, but until I see with my eyes the whole system running, well............. On the other hand, I just don't get it, some people come here to share information to help others to create something good to help the humanity, and some others just suck the informations in than after all the greed hold them back to share they results. May be I have to born again to understand this concept. :-\
couple questions for you hunter. can you rebuild your lawnmower engine, hell can you rebuild the carburetor on it?
and i'm supposed to go outta my way to take some pictures that 'prove' nothing? or make a video that 'proves' nothing so you and some others can speculate? take a look at sir9, the guy shows how its done, in a video, and people still move the goalposts every time he posts something. i won't play this asinine game. if you wanna cry about humanity and blame it on greed fine, i don't care.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: hunter on June 27, 2008, 05:44:18 PM
I'm a office machine tech. also I did build my 383 z28 camaro. I'm not a big shot, but knows lot more than the average Joe's.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: WilbyInebriated on June 27, 2008, 05:45:36 PM
then you're ahead of most in the game. at least you know where the oil goes  ;)
try a 50cc motor before a v6 or v8
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: KilltheMessenger on June 27, 2008, 09:14:53 PM
I let my HHO run forthe last two days, and I intend to let it run until next week. Nobody is offering more information that I have on what it takes to see the benefit to running HHO, other than saying I need 3 times more gas. I expect to see a equal share increase over what I would see with 3 times more HHO.
My thought on this are that the trucks computer would not give instant results unless the conditions were such that it could not run at all. These changes are small, and I think the computer will compensate over the course of a few hundred miles. 
I  will give a  report on what I find after the next couple of hundred miles.
So I admit that I may not have given the truck a fair amount of time to adjust to whatever HHO was coming into it. Today would be the second full day of running HHO, and the conditions of my morning trip were such that I expected a hit of at least .5 by the time I reached destination. I did not see that hit, what I saw was worthy of a normal trip into work  A trip where I do my best to get every mile out of every drop of gas. Today was not such a day, yet I got results that were typical of a good day. This is amounting to a small increase in MPG. I have been keeping track so well, I can predict the outcome on most any day. Today I was stopped by two trucks that blocked the road, and then sat for a little while at idle. That alone would eat .1 . Then we started to move, and that alone would eat .2 to .4 mpg , depending on how hard I hit the peddle, then we stopped again. This should have had an equally bad hit on my MPG for the beginning of the day. Like I said, the end result was not what I expected, it was many tenths higher than what I expected.  I have the return trip to make yet, and the changes to the average MPG come much slower on the return trip.
By Monday, I will have much more data to work with.   Average Joe
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: hunter on June 27, 2008, 09:45:26 PM
I don't have that deep knowledge like some others, and I don't have a car what runs on demand HHO fully but if I would than everyone on this board would have access to the blueprint. But like I said,  I believe you need a bigger generator to see bigger results. Anyone welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: KilltheMessenger on June 27, 2008, 09:52:03 PM
Everything I did, I posted to Youtube, There is more to come, good bad, or otherwise.

I don't have that deep knowledge like some others, and I don't have a car what runs on demand HHO fully but if I would than everyone on this board would have access to the blueprint. But like I said,  I believe you need a bigger generator to see bigger results. Anyone welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: starcruiser on June 27, 2008, 10:39:38 PM
you think rich = better off? LMFAO
one more time for the cheap seats...
you don't NEED AC, you WANT it.  again you confuse wants with needs.
i'm not asking you to apologize for your 'station' in life.

you are adding variables to your experiment that it (your experiment) could do without. are you tracking the ambient air temp? what formulas are you using to calculate how much power your AC robs your engine on any given day at any given outside temp? does the ambient outside air temp remain the same during your entire journey? does your vehicle remain in direct sunlight the entire journey?
reduce the variables, increase the amount of control elements.
oh yeah learn the difference between wanting and needing.

You should also include the humidity as well in the measurements since this affects the performance of the engine as well.
Title: Re: This video pretty much says it all.
Post by: corv on June 28, 2008, 07:26:36 PM
i am still very new to HHO, but what i have noticed with my V6 3.9L is after running about two tanks of fuel through it, the computer adjusted itself and i found myself with roughly a 10% increase. that is reading the mileage from fill up to file up. before HHO was getting 250-260 per tank, anded the HHO and after a few tanks of fuel i now reach 275-280.
Take this info any way you like but even a noob like myself can see that your computer cannot adjust for the HHO if you dont use it all the time