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Author Topic: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator  (Read 41708 times)

Offline tak22

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Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« on: June 24, 2008, 06:27:35 AM »
This definitely looks worth looking into ...

http://www.thermionicrevolution.com/

By combining rotation and points, we can produce an effective 0.15ev work function.
The drawing shows how these effects can be incorporated in a design. It shows
(in cross section) a red disk spinning on a 240v AC dynamo shaft. Above the disk
is a ring magnet (yellow) which is connected to magnetic iron (grey). At the outer
edge of the disk there is an array of sharp points. The disk gets replacement
electrons via a very sharp (for low loss) secondary needle array (top of orange.)
The dynamo (blue) works initially as a motor to get the disk up to design speed,
then it is a dynamo. As electrons are emitted from the outer surface, a current flows
through the disk. That current passes the magnets and induces a torque in the disk
which then turns the dynamo. Electrons are replaced at the same rate they were
emitted from the disk via the extra sharp secondary needle array (top of orange).
This also transfer some heat. Heat flows to the disk from the upper and lower case.
At a work function of 0.15ev, we do work of 2.4E-20 Joules per emitted electron. At a
n edge speed of 300m/s replacement electrons use 4.1E-26 Joules to get up to edge
speed. The net work available for torque (output) is therefore 2.39E-20 Joules. Allowing
for losses, we estimate output at 3Kw, for a 150cm diameter disk.

tak


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline tak22

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Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 06:22:50 PM »
I've invited Paul Solomon to stop by here and give us any insight he's willing to on this,
and I encourage others to go to the Thermionic website and let them know of your interest.

We don't get very many developers publicly saying this:

We, Philip Hardcastle and Paul Solomon, give to the World permission to make
electricity with our device for personal home use free of charge.


We do this - not only because the aim of this project was to help the world - but also
because we feel it would be immoral for us to do otherwise.

tak

Offline AlanA

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Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 07:02:23 PM »
Is this an idea or do you have a working prototype?
Could you describe the idea behind your invention.
I have no ideo how this works.

AlanA

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 07:02:23 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline tak22

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Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 07:16:41 PM »
Allan,

Sorry, I should have made it clearer in the first post that I was quoting the inventors.
Everything to know about this can be found by reading the website. Here is the base
idea as stated by Paul Solomon:

It was possible to replace temperature difference with acceleration in the thermionic process,
i.e. to trick the metal into acting as if it were several hundred degrees hotter than what it actual was.


tak

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 07:36:42 PM »
Howdy Y'all,

This device looks like a modified Searle Disk Generator.  In principle the Searle Disk uses centrifugal force to sling electrons off the disk.  This creates a voltage between the center of the disk and the periphery.  This also induces a donut, or toroid shaped EM field around the device.  The faster you spin the disk, the greater the voltage and larger the induced EM field.  Dr. Searle had a problem with his disks getting airborne and flying off into space.  Have you guys seen this problem yet?  I am really intrigued with your design.  I think there is great potential in it.  I have tried a Searle Disk once, but it was not nearly sophisticated or balanced as it needed to be to produce the Searle Effect.  Here is a link.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4135.0.html

I'll get back to that eventually.  Got lots of other projects keeping me busy at the moment.

Good luck with you generator...

Blessed Be Brothers...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 07:36:42 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline tak22

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Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2008, 12:31:32 AM »
More info, no details, but Philip Hardcastle seems pretty passionate about his theory. :)

Quote
From: "Philip Hardcastle" <pjhardcastle@gmail.com>
Subject: Dear physicists and press
Date: 21 June 2008 10:34:11 BST
To: a.bakich@physics.usyd.edu.au, a.blake@physics.usyd.edu.au,
a.derekas@physics.usyd.edu.au, a.rahmani@physics.usyd.edu.au,
a.richardson@physics.usyd.edu.au, aall3200@mail.usyd.edu.au,
aaron.chippendale@csiro.au, adam@physics.usyd.edu.au,
albada@physics.usyd.edu.au, alexv@physics.usyd.edu.au, "Ali Shakouri"
<ali@soe.ucsc.edu>, ali@soe.ucsc.edu, aloysius@physics.usyd.edu.au,
anant@physics.usyd.edu.au, "Andrew Das Arulsamy" <andrew@physics.usyd.edu.au>,
"Andrew Simmons" <a.simmons@physics.usyd.edu.au>, apisit@physics.usyd.edu.au,
apoh@ucsc.edu, aquino@physics.usyd.edu.au, arider@physics.usyd.edu.au and 242 more…


Despite my offer of a cash prize for someone to actually tell me where the flaw is no one has.
 
Despite the fact that I am not the only scientist to question if the second law is so absolute that it cannot be debated, you all
know so much that you can declare me irrational and therefore the hypothesis unworthy of thought by you.
 
Despite the fact that my motivation is to try and save humanity from starvation and destruction I am treated like rubbish.
 
Despite the fact that the World is slowly cooking itself and not one of you has an answer, yet still you scorn me and refuse to
consider a reasonable hypothesis.
 
Despite the fact that 3 prominent physicists privately have decalred I might be right yet no one dares to publicly say so.
 
Despite the fact that we are in a supposed age of enlightenment and of communication no one will repeat my words for debate.
 
Despite the fact that Prof Mahan said power can be produced from ambient if there were a stable low work function you ignore
my idea.
 
Despite the fact that prof Sheehan and others work on thermionic proofs of a violation of the second you feel you all know all
that there is to be known.
 
Despite the fact that there is no proof of the second law and that everyone knows there are already known violations of the
second at micro levels yet the second to you all is so absolute.
 
Despite all the above and my growing distaste of the human race that is prepared to be transfixed by the life of a Brittney
Spears while the world burns and children die, I still hope that amongst some of my here audience there are some with a
conscience and half a brain that can figure that telling others that there is a new hypothesis that needs to be proved or
disproved, is more logical, ethical and professional than simply being so arrogant as to declare me as mad.
 
I will succeed in getting public attention even if I have to go on a hunger strike outside the Prime ministers residence.
 
I will have this email published even if I have to pay to do so.
 
So i ask for the sake of everyone, use your intelligence, your influence and your good conscience to get a debate going.
 
Philip Hardcastle

tak

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2008, 07:21:37 AM »
Dear Tak and others,

As I am in Australia and getting very busy I will not be all that regular here.

I have been asked by Nexus to do an article for their next publication and this article will probably answer all your questions.

I am very passionate and also very sceptical. I have been in physics and engineering all my life and if I saw my claim i would say it was mad.

So I have spent more time trying to prove myself wrong than going forward.

However the amount of physicists who concede they can find no flaw grows.

So what does one do if no one can identify a credible flaw other than quoting the 2nd law.

I even previously offered a cash prize to the University of Sydney Physics dept but got no takers.

I know the second law is a big issue and I will be dealing with it to the extent that I and professor Daniel Sheehan believe it does not strictly apply to thermionics.

I have argued the issue with no less than 4 professors and countless doctors but always end up with them saying the same old repeated lines "you can?t win".

I should have a substantial posting late next week.

I also want to advise that there will be some disclosure of high power to weight devices (50Kw for 500Kg) we believe will be feasible for locomotion applications.

For now

Best Regards to All from Australia

Philip Hardcastle

P.S I posted elesewhere so I shall say so here. please be patient about building one for the cost of a super balanced rotor with precision micro-points is very expensive for a one off.

When we have resolved how to get one for a few thousand we will advise on our website and here.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2008, 07:21:37 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Paul-R

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Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2008, 04:04:18 PM »
So what does one do if no one can identify a credible flaw other than quoting the 2nd law.
The Second Law doesn't matter. This is not a heat engine.
Anyway, the Second Law has never been proved.
There a dozens of second law violations; the darlings even have their own thread on this board.
What I do not understand is why this is not nay more than a homopolar generator with the output termials shorted.

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2008, 03:37:52 AM »
Paul R,

You are right to the point that the homopolar is a motor / generator.

If the net work done exceeds the load including friction, then the unit tends to increase its rotational speed.

A shorted homopolar device such as a high current welder converts mechanical torque to welding current and hence to welding heat.

This is working in almost the exact opposite. Heat gives rise to thermionic emission which give rise to current flow which causes torque (by intersecting the magnetic filed), and the shaft via an ac generator puts power to the grid or to the house.

This device is simple and yet very complex. The old saying applies, a picture is worth a thousand words and yet even a thousand words cannot convey the total interwoven dynamics of the device.

It is suffice to say that the only way for the work done by an electron having say a 100,000m/sec velocity, which then escapes and is in vacuum and kinetically spent, to be transformed (conservation of energy _ the first law) is to either heat the rotor by joules heating or to rotational acceleration of the rotor.

As the ohmic / Joule heating is an order of 1000 times less than the emission work for a metal such as stainless steel the bulk of the transformation has to be in rotation.

The interesting thing about the device is that the answer to where energy goes is self evident as there is no exhaust, IE it must go somewhere.

Hope this helps

Regards

Philip

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2008, 03:37:52 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2008, 04:08:54 AM »
Dear Folks and Tak22,

Thought you might like a 3D view of a more complete design.

It shows a high power unit (50KW) suitable for conversion of 100% solar introduced by optic cables.

Notice that the rotor outer edge is interleaved to increase heat transfer to the rotor.

This unit is much smaller that the basic home unit (40cm diameter)

Currently I am writing what may turn out to be the hottest debate paper ever on free energy as I believe it solves in the favour of free energy maxwell?s demon.

Will post excerpts in due course.

To all those that believe in this I ask that you might try and get some publicity for the technology.

The more we can spread the word the sooner Governments and Universities will come to our aid.

The sooner we get the proof of concept built the sooner we can gear up for mass production to save the planet.

Best Regards to all from Australia

Phil H

Offline tinu

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Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2008, 08:35:09 AM »
@ Phil H

Before saving the planet and everything, a couple of questions about the basic assumptions you?ve made:
1. Why do you think that work function would be smaller at the edge of a rotating disk?!
2. Why do you also think that by using needles the work will decrease too?!

 I suppose you don?t really have any experimental data/proof on the above (otherwise it would have been already posted on your site, right?) so, a theoretical approach will do it for me.

Many thanks,
Tinu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2008, 08:35:09 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2008, 09:24:00 AM »
@Tinu

Hi,

Question 1 Answer, well the binding force on a surface electron is work function and it is electrostatic.
A force acting against the work function effective reduces the binding force. Now this as it happens was proved almst a century ago by Tolman (and was prior to that suggested by Maxwell).

The expeiments of Tolman have been scrutinised and repeated and confirmed.

It turns out from tolmans equation that the Voltage produced for 316m/sec at a radius of 1m is 5mv.

At 1000m/s (if we could go that fast) we would get 50mv.

And at 10,000m/sec it would be 5v (but no metal could stand that speed)

But just for a moment let us say we could.

If we started off with a metal of 5.15ev work function we would have reduced it effectively to 0.15 and so at room temp electrons in large numbers would escape to vacuum and in doing so do 0.15ev work.

0.15ev = 2.4E-20 Joules

Now to get a replacement electron up to 10,000m/s we would need 1/2 x 9.109E-31 x 10,000 x 10,000J = 4.55E-23 Joules

This is 1/527th of the work done by the escaping electron. Or in other words 527x over unity.

So if we had super alloy we could just do it directly, but alas we do not and so we need to essentially lever the electrons off with topography.

Q2 A.

Now the issue of work function and topography is a given. A smooth surface has a higher work function than a rough one.

As you know crowding occurs at a sharp point and if you imagine the centrifuge is pushing electrons to the tip yopu can see that the work function is being overcome by the mutual repulsion of the free electrons.

I hope this short answer helps you.

Regards Phil H

Offline tinu

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Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2008, 01:25:49 PM »
@ Phil H,

Hi,
Richard C. Tolman? Please post a link to the equation (and experiment) you mentioned.

Meanwhile, let?s get a step back. Some things seems very badly mixed to me. Therefore, let?s forget about rotation for a second. Assume as you wish, a 5.15eV work function. Assume the temperature you consider appropriate for your purposes. No needles. Perfect smooth surface, free of defects and contaminants. Place a sensitive ammeter in between the armature and (stalled) rotor. What would be the current resultant from thermionic emission as per Richardson? (A numeric value for current density would do it too; it would also prove the many, many orders of magnitude smaller than the one needed in a Faraday motor)
Now place a 5V battery between the armature and (stalled) rotor. What would be the new current?
Finally: What if the external battery voltage goes to 5.15V? How does it affect the current? Make it 9V.
You imply that the work function is completely overcome and thus current tends to increase toward large (infinite) values. That?s wrong. Mentioning a vacuum diode is sufficient to see your fallacy.

Waiting for your reply before moving futher.

Cheers,
Tinu

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2008, 02:23:20 PM »
@ Tinu,

Your idea of a simple 5v battery or 9v battery is just wrong. But it is a point I made in a separate explanation as it happens because it is an easy path to blunder into.

A voltage applied is not the same as the surface potential as it is not a 5v electric field starting at the rim. That is to say the induced voltage is the displacement of the surface electrons relative to the outermost matrix.

In Tolman they used an isolated conductor (such that there were no replacement electrons) and the conductor was wound as a big coil and brought to a stop at the outside of a rotating disk. Previous attempt to just spin a disk had proved troublesome as it involved a brush which induced reading errors so they had an equivalent arrangement to induce a g force (when the coil hit an end stop).

Anyway they equated f = ma to F = Ee where m is the electron mass and e the electron charge.

This led to an equation E = L x m x a / e

The L part is interesting (note when I first had the idea I did not know of tolman and arrived at it purely theoretically) as it cancelled out by the "a", by this I mean a radius of say 1 unit gives the same result as a radius of 1/10th as for a constant tip velocity a increases while L decreases.

Please also note that the Tolman value is for an isolated system and that in a system where electrons can enter the conductor the field / voltage is much higher. This potentially means that if the system were charged the rotational velocity would reduce, however that is something that will in my opinion need a test bed experiment.

So what you have in essence from Tolman is a view of a trillion trillion electrons on springs connecting to the ion matrix and the voltage so described is related to the force in the springs.

A 5v battery connected on the centre of a stationary disk looks nothing like this, and even more so if the outer edge is not in extreme close proximity to the collector.

We all know that a smooth electrode in vacuum requires many many volts per mm of gap.

Lastly I enjoy a discussion but I would prefer if you were not quite so aggressive as to use "your fallacy".

If there is a mistake I welcome the identification of it and have in thousands of conversations with professors asked for just that. You might well find a mistake with your passion but I suggest that you could do it a bit less aggressive, after all I came here by invitation of Tak22.

That is not to say that I do not appreciate and respect your viewpoint, but don't start out by assuming me to be a fool.

Regards

Phil H

Offline tinu

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Re: Hardcastle/Solomon Thermionic Generator
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2008, 03:21:59 PM »
@ Phil H,

I have to explain myself: Fallacy in my dictionary (and in my culture) primarily means ?erroneous belief?. If you find it offensive, I deeply apologize. I have my own fallacies (everyone has) and it doesn?t make me fool; it never crossed my mind to such interpretation.

As about surface potential, I see your point as you certainly saw mine. We shall get to it as soon as I read more about Tolman. However, Faraday motor requires considerable current and I still find hard to believe that a feeble thermionic current (micro to mili Amperes, at best) is able to exert more than a totally negligible force on a massive rotor. That?s why I?ve asked for estimates. Hopefully you?ll agree that without having enough current, the device lacks the prime mover and this is a major issue, isn?t it?

Best regards,
Tinu

 

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