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New Battery systems => Other new battery systems => Topic started by: Creativity on June 23, 2008, 01:31:45 PM

Title: magnetic battery
Post by: Creativity on June 23, 2008, 01:31:45 PM
last days i trouble my brain with some new energy storage possibilities for a vehicle.I never heard of a magnetic battery? does it exist?
my first thought would be a magnet inside of a coil.When warmed beyond Curie point,domains would disorder generating some magnetic fluxes through the coil and generating electricity.For example a weak earth magnetic field could be used in combination with sun heat to magnetize the magnet back.
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Koen1 on June 24, 2008, 01:31:21 PM
I believe that is a tested concept, if I'm not mistaken it is referred to
as an "adiabatic magnetic generator", or at least that seems very close...
The version that comes to mind is one where the magnetic domains are
aligned by a magnetic field and then the field is dropped, allowing the
magnetic domains in a soft iron core to 'randomly' rearrange themselves
according to environmental "thermal" noise. If I recall correctly that was
found to be a functional principle but output was extremely low compared
to relatively high input, although in a certain ideal situation it could
produce minimal amounts of power.

To do this with the curie point by heating it seems like an inefficient
way, seems to me more output could be derived from direct thermoelectric
effect... But I may be wrong of course. ;)

But the main reason for there not being a magnetic battery is, in my opinion,
the fact that generation of current from a magnet needs active fluctuations of
the field intensity and/or polarity, so it needs to be an actively oscillating system,
and that falls in the category of electrodynamic generators while batteries
fall under the category of electrochemical reactors and need only contact surfaces
between different chemicals/elements to undergo reaction. 
So it's a different type of beastie.

But in theory concepts such as "Bearden's" MEG should work, as should
variations on the concept. Basically, you can put a permanent magnet in
a transformer core exactly in the middle so half the flux goes around one
side of the core and the other half around the other side. Then you wrap
two small "primaries" or "controller coils" around the top or bottom "arms"
of the core, and two larger "secondaries" or "collector coils" around the
side "arms" of the core (where a normal core would have the primary and
secondary coils). Now you can feed alternating current to the "primaries"
in such a way that the flux from the central magnet is opposed by
one "primary" and in alignment with the other "primary", which guides
all of the magnets flux through the one leg of the core. At the moment
all the flux "flips" to that "leg" of the core, the "secondary" there will
"see" the flux in its core leg double in intensity, and it will generate a current.
Right after that, we alternate the polarity of the current through the "primaries",
and 100% of the magnets flux will now "flip" over to the other "leg".
This again induces a current in the "secondary" that has just lost all of the
flux in its "core leg", and at the same time it induces a current in the "secondary"
that suddenly "sees" all of the flux enter its formerly empty "leg".
And if we keep "flipping" the flux this way, we should be able to get output,
the power of which should be proportional to the strength of the permanent
magnets field and the frequency of oscillation.
Theoretically we should be able to get more out than we put in that way,
because it takes less energy to guide existing flux through one of two
flux paths of equal length than it takes to actually produce that same
amount of flux (like a normal transformer does, and there are already
transformers of the normal type that are 98% efficient...).

OU has been claimed for the MEG, but for some reason it is still not
available on the open market... It was said they had trouble closed-looping
the thing, but at the same time COPs of 300+% have been mentioned...
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Creativity on June 24, 2008, 03:50:58 PM
interesting.U know what is for me so strange?that electricity and magnetism are easily transformed one in the other but there is no need of changing of electric field to get a magnetic one.Aja... wait   :) actually a current is flowing through a coil so it is also kind of dynamic.Would be nice to have a flowing magnetic current... or for example a bursts of magnetc field are also ok.
If light is electromagnetic wave ,why there is no materials that are getting magnetic field when light falls on them (but there are PV that do it for electricity) or r there?. we seems to be trapped into electricity only.something is not matching

hmm what would happen if a light was to travel in a circle(like in a bend optic fibre)...
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: resonanceman on June 24, 2008, 04:32:23 PM
interesting.U know what is for me so strange?that electricity and magnetism are easily transformed one in the other but there is no need of changing of electric field to get a magnetic one.Aja... wait   :) actually a current is flowing through a coil so it is also kind of dynamic.Would be nice to have a flowing magnetic current... or for example a bursts of magnetc field are also ok.
If light is electromagnetic wave ,why there is no materials that are getting magnetic field when light falls on them (but there are PV that do it for electricity) or r there?. we seems to be trapped into electricity only.something is not matching

hmm what would happen if a light was to travel in a circle(like in a bend optic fibre)...


It  seems to me that there is  alot  of possabilities  in this area .

In many ways  magnetic flux  flows much like  electric current . 

Has anyone  really  studied   magnetic  flux in this way?

What  would it take to make a magnetic  oscilator ?
It seems to me that any  magnetic oscilator  would  also be  a motionless  generator   


gary
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Koen1 on June 25, 2008, 12:49:02 PM
In many ways  magnetic flux  flows much like  electric current . 
Well, actually it doesn't. Magnetic flux differs from electrical current in more ways
than it shows similarities.

Quote
Has anyone  really  studied   magnetic  flux in this way?
I think many people have, and most have concluded that flux and current are
very different things. Some have not, but they tend to jump to conclusions
or see proof for their own assumptions where logical deduction does not.

Quote
What  would it take to make a magnetic  oscilator ?
A flux capacitor. ;D
And if you have that, then call the X-files because only the mad scientist
from "Back to the Future" has managed to build one. ;) :D

Quote
It seems to me that any  magnetic oscilator  would  also be  a motionless  generator
Yes, it could be. If you can make one.
Well, of course, you can make an oscillator where the B-field oscillates, but that is a normal
self-oscillating LC-circuit. In other words, a capacitor and a coil, and a bit of charge on the
capacitor to start the oscillation.
And that's not what you're talking about, is it?
After all, that's a very common piece of technology.   
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: triffid on June 25, 2008, 01:00:04 PM
I understand that the" cook coil "that was patented about a 150 years ago was called a magnetic battery on the patent .It took being stroked with a small magnet to get the current flowing.Triffid
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: triffid on June 25, 2008, 01:03:34 PM
I think too that the hans coler device was built along similar lines.It was able to put out a couple of kilowatts.So these things can be scaled up.Triffid
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Creativity on June 25, 2008, 03:07:21 PM
i think more along the lines of "freezing" a magnetic field,just like capacitor freezes the electric field.Creating of a magnetic capacitor would be then possible and who knows maybe it is cheaper and easier to store magnetic than electric field.In that case let us say a magnetic current exists somehow with a far shot maybe a kind of a particle orbiting an electron on a circle orbit perpendiculair to the movement of the electron.(it moves perpendiculair to the magnetic field(and electric field of atom-electron pair) having some magnetic 'charge' opposite to the one in electron->kind of atom with the center beeing electron).

I guess magnetic field is more like an electric field than the electric current,but i let myself totally open with thinking now .So don't be shy,this topic is about creative brainstorming  ;D wildest idea's r welcome!Me kind of tired to think along the physics all the time (as i do 99% of the time ;)).
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Groundloop on June 25, 2008, 03:09:18 PM
@Koen1,

I do not know anybody that actually has managed to replicate a working MEG, including myself.
If you have ANY tips on how to get a MEG to work then I will be gratefull.

See: http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/MEG/meg.htm

Groundloop.
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Koen1 on June 25, 2008, 04:04:32 PM
Well Bearden and his friends claim that it works,
they claim that it has been replicated many times
by independent researchers (http://www.cheniere.org/megstatus.htm),
they were granted a patent on the thing in 2000 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=6362718&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=&d=ft00),
and our French hero mr. Naudin has had what appears to be proof of OU
in his replication of the MEG tests posted on his webiste since 2000 or so as well:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/meg/megv21.htm
(with the broader picture in http://jnaudin.free.fr/meg/meg.htm)

I don't recall any other replications, to be honest.

But the concept seems sound... It's like a half-wave transformer with two secondaries
where the flux source is a magnet instead of the primary coil...
And (to my knowledge and experience at least) it is true that magnetic flux,
given two equal length flux paths, will very easily be "bent" into one
of the two paths by a fairly weak electromagnetic pulse...

But no, I do not personally know anyone who has managed to build a working
MEG replication, nor have I personally ever seen one.
Nor have I seen others proudly present their MEG-powered household ;)

And it is a bit curious that the MEG is still not commercially available,
since back in 2003 they were already thinking about marketing the thing as far
as I know...
Heh, Bearden says something about that on his website in a reply to an email:
Quote from: Bearden
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008
 
Dear Mr. S***

 
We already have the contracts in place for the MEG, etc.
Whenever the UN funds are released to our contractor for his projects, we will have funding and will get on with the MEG.
(from http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/050508.htm)
...which sounds a bit funny to me... So they're waiting for UN funding to produce the MEG?
Of course it's great to want to play this through UN channels and ultimately allow anyone
anywhere in the world to obtain a MEG, if that is their goal,
but I would assume there are many other humanitarian organisations and perhaps even national
governments who are willing to contribute to what realistically is the release of mankind
from energy slavery? A fast, not instant, but fast, and feasable way to eliminate the energy crisis
once and for all, no more skyhigh oil prices, no more need for CO2 emissions (just build
a MEG and electromotor into every car, or use them to produce hydrogen if you don't want to
kill off the fuel sector completely), and if available for personal use even the possibility
to do away with huge power plants and the accompanying ugly high tension cable towers,
pollution, and even those annoying energy bills could stop coming. ;)

Sorry about the rant. ;)

Anyway, I had seen your replication before, and to be honest it looks like
a really good job, and you seem to have followed the patent to the letter,
so why it doesn't work is a complete mystery to me.
I do recall from a few years back, other discussion group, other board,
that some guys were also working on replications that they had trouble getting to work,
and I seem to recall there was some talk of the pickup coils having to be wound
differently than the patent stated... But, again if I recall correctly, those guys
contacted Bearden about it and he refused to give any info (claimed that had
to do with the patent application and/or NDA or something) and I think they
finally dropped it.
I fully agree with you that it is strange the device has still not been marketed or even
taken into production yet, if all they claim about it is true. Makes one wonder if perhaps
it didn't work after all... ;)

Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Groundloop on June 25, 2008, 05:21:36 PM
@Koen1,

Thank you for that detailed answer. Yes, I have followed the patent paper very closely but that is maybe the problem? I do not think that the patent paper is showing the whole picture. T. Bearden has many times talked about that this is a non-linear circuit. It is probably a very small "window" where the circuit works. It is just like tuning a radio circuit. Suddenly you hit the right frequency in your coils and everything works. Maybe the MEG needs a tuning of some sort? Maybe some special coils as you say. My problem with my MEG is that when the magnet is in plase there is only one way to redo the coils and that is by threading. The magnet is so powerfull that I will rip the Metglass core to small fragments if I try to remove the magnet. Threading coils is boring and time consuming.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: resonanceman on June 25, 2008, 08:54:13 PM
i think more along the lines of "freezing" a magnetic field,just like capacitor freezes the electric field.Creating of a magnetic capacitor would be then possible and who knows maybe it is cheaper and easier to store magnetic than electric field.In that case let us say a magnetic current exists somehow with a far shot maybe a kind of a particle orbiting an electron on a circle orbit perpendiculair to the movement of the electron.(it moves perpendiculair to the magnetic field(and electric field of atom-electron pair) having some magnetic 'charge' opposite to the one in electron->kind of atom with the center beeing electron).

I guess magnetic field is more like an electric field than the electric current,but i let myself totally open with thinking now .So don't be shy,this topic is about creative brainstorming  ;D wildest idea's r welcome!Me kind of tired to think along the physics all the time (as i do 99% of the time ;)).


I  don't have any idea  how to make a capacitor  for magnetic flux ........but if we  found a way it  might open LOTS of  doors .   


gary
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: resonanceman on June 25, 2008, 09:20:33 PM
@Koen1,

I do not know anybody that actually has managed to replicate a working MEG, including myself.
If you have ANY tips on how to get a MEG to work then I will be gratefull.

See: http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/MEG/meg.htm

Groundloop.


I took  a look  at  your  MEG

I am no expert ............but  I do  have  a little insite  into  relationships between  things  .. .......and  energy flows .

If  my understanding of the overall  concept of the MEG  is  to  use  the control  coils to make  the flux from the magnet  oscilate  from side to side . .


At first  glance it would seem that  bigger is better   as far as  the magnet goes .  ....... I think  that is  your problem  .

If  you look at the diagram  of the MEG on your  website    you  will see a  space on each side of the magnet that is  about  half  as  thick  as the magnet is . ..........I think this space is VERY IMPORTANT .

For  any given  power  your   control  coils  can only  affect  a finite  amount of  flux  from the magnet ......... you have a VERY strong  magnet  almost  right on top of    your  control  coil ..    The  flux in the  core  will change  relatively  easily .......  your magnets  are close enough that   flux from the magnet  is  bound to be flowing  directly  through  your  control coil ..............this  flux will NOT change  easily


What  I would try  if  I was  in your shoes .

Your  pickup  coils  have a white  end cap  of some kind .      I would  try to hack  away  any  of this end cap that I could   to  make room to slide  the  control  coils out away from the magnet .
If that  helps a little but not enough .........I would boost  the  control  coil  voltage


hope this helps



gary 
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Groundloop on June 25, 2008, 10:14:48 PM
@resonanceman,

Thank you for the kind advice. It is a nightmare to try to change the layout of the core now that the
strong Neo magnet is in there. I can't take it apart any more because it will ruin the brittle core.
The only way I can change the coils is by unwinding them by threading. Then I can make new ones.
There is no room for sliding the control coils even if I remove the plastic. That said, I tested the coils
before I put the magnet in there. The worrying part is that I see NO difference with the magnet in or
without a magnet. The core and coils do behave as a normal transformer. As to control voltage,
I have designed the system so that one of the output coils will be the generator when the unit runs.
The big coil will provide up to 100 Volt for the control coils. 100 Volt is the design limit of the parts used.
If there was any effect of amplification then the control voltage will automatic go up to 100 volt when the unit runs.

I tested the oscillator from 1Hz to approx. 200KHz without that to happen. So far, all I have is a 97%
good transformer. And testing shows that I also had a 97% good transformer without the magnet.
Since I have the same coupling of energy with or without the magnet in the core then I think that the
flux from the magnet is flowing inside the core and not through the plastic and control coils at all.
With the magnet in there there is NO measurable flux outside the Metglass core.
The casing around the unit is made of aluminum and is non magnetic.
There is no difference if I lift the core outside of the alu box.

To conclude, I think that there is more to this MEG than the information in the patent papers. I guess we
have to wait until the T. Bearden's team puts units out on the market (if ever).

Groundloop.
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: resonanceman on June 25, 2008, 10:48:46 PM

Since I have the same coupling of energy with or without the magnet in the core then I think that the
flux from the magnet is flowing inside the core and not through the plastic and control coils at all.
With the magnet in there there is NO measurable flux outside the Metglass core.


This is  exactly what I  would  expect  if your  control  coils  are sturated  bu the  flux from the magnet . ...... your  control coils are  totally ineffective  in their  present location . 


Quote

To conclude, I think that there is more to this MEG than the information in the patent papers. I guess we
have to wait until the T. Bearden's team puts units out on the market (if ever).



If course there is more to the MEG than  shown in the patent .    No  one  shows  any more information  than they have to  .   The rule  that applies  is that it  should be enough for someone else SKILLED IN THE  ART  to duplicate it .   
How many  people are there that are currently  skilled in the art of making  OU  transformers ?


If you  think  you have to just  sit on your  butt  and wait .............so  be it .
Personally I think  you  are probably  99.9 %  there .
Wouldn't  it be sad  if you  waited years for the last  .1%

gary
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Groundloop on June 25, 2008, 11:20:28 PM
@resonanceman,

Well, I'm not sitting on my butt regarding testing of free energy devices! LOL :-)

I remember back in 1998 (or so) when I first read about the MEG. I then thought that
it was a very nice looking equipment. Now that I actually have a unit on my desk, it looks
more like a monster. :-) I have spent a huge amount of money and time on the unit,
and I have used the best parts that where available to me. Now we have reached 2008,
that is 10 years. In ten years the Bearden's team has not managed to get the unit out
to the market. I also remember a Yahoo group dedicated to the MEG replica. (Maybe the
group still is active?) As far as I have checked, none of the members of that group got a
running o/u unit. Now here we have a lot of people trying out all sorts of configurations.
I bet that someone in this group also have tried another coil setup than me. What I'm trying
to say is that the only thing we have is Bearden's claim that the unit works, and Naudin's replica.
Looking at Naudin's replica, he never tried to loop the unit into a self runner. He also burned some resistors with high voltage (changing the value of the resistors) to get the "correct" output readings.

I'm closing in on my vacation soon and will not have the time to do any work on the MEG until late this year. Maybe I'm 99.99% there. Time will tell.

Groundloop.

 [EDIT] I found the MEG group: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MEG_builders/message/1359
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: resonanceman on June 26, 2008, 12:20:08 AM
@resonanceman,

Well, I'm not sitting on my butt regarding testing of free energy devices! LOL :-)

I remember back in 1998 (or so) when I first read about the MEG. I then thought that
it was a very nice looking equipment. Now that I actually have a unit on my desk, it looks
more like a monster. :-) I have spent a huge amount of money and time on the unit,
and I have used the best parts that where available to me. Now we have reached 2008,
that is 10 years. In ten years the Bearden's team has not managed to get the unit out
to the market. I also remember a Yahoo group dedicated to the MEG replica. (Maybe the
group still is active?) As far as I have checked, none of the members of that group got a
running o/u unit. Now here we have a lot of people trying out all sorts of configurations.
I bet that someone in this group also have tried another coil setup than me. What I'm trying
to say is that the only thing we have is Bearden's claim that the unit works, and Naudin's replica.
Looking at Naudin's replica, he never tried to loop the unit into a self runner. He also burned some resistors with high voltage (changing the value of the resistors) to get the "correct" output readings.

I'm closing in on my vacation soon and will not have the time to do any work on the MEG until late this year. Maybe I'm 99.99% there. Time will tell.

Groundloop.

 [EDIT] I found the MEG group: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MEG_builders/message/1359


Groundloop


I checked out that  messageboard ..........not much point in  me spending  much  time there.

I  don't  have  the education to follow the math or  fancy names  for  everything . ( dyslexia ) 

That  doesn't mean that I  can't  recognise  a problem when I see one .
This   is   as simple  to me as telling  the difference between    jet black and  pure  white. 

I will  try one more time  to explain  .

For lack of a better analogy  ......... your   control  coils SHOULD be acting much like  a field effect  transistor .
They  should  be  pinching  off  the flux  in  one  direction and  making it easier  to flow in the other  direction. 
In  order to do this  they must be  relatively  unaffected  by  stray  flux from  the magnet .

In   your MEG  the   magnet is  right next  to   the place  where the  control  coil  needs to pinch off the flux .
At the point  that   the  flux  should  get cut off  you  have   VERY strong flux from the magnet . 
As long as you have  such strong flux  directly  from the magnet  at your pinch point  there is no way that it can pinch  it  off .   



That is  my final  attempt 
Do I expect you  to  listen?    NO
You  obviously   have  more education than I do ........and  more experience building .
What  could  I possably  understand   that  you  don't understand? .



One thing they  don't teach is collage  is common  sense .  ........to me this is just a common sense  problem .   


Sorry   if  this sounds a little hostile .
It is not about  you .
I get this kind of thing all the time .
If you don't have the right math  formula or the right  technical  term ........you get no respect .


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Enjoy  your  vacation



 :)


gary


 



Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Groundloop on June 26, 2008, 01:00:05 AM
@resonanceman,

I did understand you the first time. And I DO respect and value your input.

I will try to change the layout the next time I have time to work on my MEG unit.

What I'm not sure of is the idea, that it is possible to control the flux this way.
The "accepted" theory is that if you restrict the flow a little in one direction and
"help" the flow a little in the other direction then you can switch the flux from
the magnet from one side to the other with little input and thus get a total gain
in your system. The idea is that the magnetic flux will go the least resistant
way in the core. I'm not convinced that this happens at all even if the magnetic
simulators tells that it is happening.

In my tests (so far) it more looks like we have a 50% flux field in both directions
of the core with equal strength. It seems that this flux is constant and that the
control coils just shuttle its own flux back and forth through the core as if the
magnet is not there at all. I must add that the MEG on my web is not the first
unit that I have made. I have tested with toroid cores and ferrite cores also.

[EDIT] I have added a drawing that illustrate what I'm trying to say here.

Maybe we can only control the flux from the magnet when the core is at (or
very close) to saturation?

I must also add that I do not have any college educations (or other higher educations) :-)

Groundloop.
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: resonanceman on June 26, 2008, 01:50:43 AM
@resonanceman,

I did understand you the first time. And I DO respect and value your input.

I will try to change the layout the next time I have time to work on my MEG unit.

What I'm not sure of is the idea, that it is possible to control the flux this way.
The "accepted" theory is that if you restrict the flow a little in one direction and
"help" the flow a little in the other direction then you can switch the flux from
the magnet from one side to the other with little input and thus get a total gain
in your system. The idea is that the magnetic flux will go the least resistant
way in the core. I'm not convinced that this happens at all even if the magnetic
simulators tells that it is happening.

In my tests (so far) it more looks like we have a 50% flux field in both directions
of the core with equal strength. It seems that this flux is constant and that the
control coils just shuttle its own flux back and forth through the core as if the
magnet is not there at all. I must add that the MEG on my web is not the first
unit that I have made. I have tested with toroid cores and ferrite cores also.

Maybe we can only control the flux from the magnet when the core is at (or
very close) to saturation?

I must also add that I do not have any college educations (or other higher educations) :-)

Groundloop.


Do  ANY of your MEGs  have a  space of at least   1/2  the  width of the magnet  between the   control coils   and the magnet?

In  my opinion   you should have  half of  the flux on each side   if you   have no   control  coils or non working control  coils . 
As  far as if the  theory is workable .  there are quite a few other  similar   devices out there.    I have no  reason to doubt the theory  .     
I also  have spent some time on the Bearden  website       
I think he is a man  of integrity 




I just had a flash ........       Sometimes  I  have a complete concept  flash into my mind .....I  read that Tesla  had flashes like that alot . ........ they  cuused him alot of  suffering  in his later years because he could no longer act on them .

Anyway ............how  do you  drive your control  coils?
Now  it looks to me  like the way to  drive them  is with a sharp  spike   designed to   ring  them into resonance .  ...... of  course a a cap  is needed to  go with each coil .  ...   


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

have  you  read  much from this  site?

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/

The  part  about  the MEG  starts on  chapter  3 page 12
There  are   other  similar   devices  in that  chapter 


gary
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Groundloop on June 26, 2008, 02:02:05 AM
@resonanceman,

The toroid version and the ferrite core versions had spacings between the magnet and the control coils.
I have also tried to put one control coil at the top and one control coil at the bottom. And I have tried
to have the control coils at the same "leg" as the output coils on the ferrite version.

On my newest MEG I drive the control coils with a modified Bedini cap pulser. The coils is alternate
switched on and off.

I will check the web site link you posted, thanks.

[EDIT] I have read the document and there are some good tips there that I can try out.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: resonanceman on June 26, 2008, 02:31:15 AM
Quote

can we affect  the flow of  the big pump at all ?



The flow of the  big pump is  constant .......it   will not change   no matter what  you  do with the small pumps .

However ....................... if you  run one of the small pumps long enough   most of the  current flow will  end up on that side .

I don't like the analogy  with water .    You are in effect comparing  apples  and atoms
The  water  will take a  very long time to  react because it is  so  heavy
The   magnetic  flux  will react very  quickly  because it has little or no mass .

gary
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Creativity on June 26, 2008, 04:52:32 PM
The flow of the  big pump is  constant .......it   will not change   no matter what  you  do with the small pumps .

However ....................... if you  run one of the small pumps long enough   most of the  current flow will  end up on that side .

I don't like the analogy  with water .    You are in effect comparing  apples  and atoms
The  water  will take a  very long time to  react because it is  so  heavy
The   magnetic  flux  will react very  quickly  because it has little or no mass .

gary
In robotics they use a pneumatic channels switching.U have for example Y shape junction and with a small energy side blow u can make the air stream to go from one leg of a junction to the another.It works because of "stickiness" of air stream.But magnetic field is occupying all the channels it can have,because it is not unidirectional like an air stream.It tries to make a sphere,so it will occupy every channel that is in its range...i think.
In that case if u work to switch the flux from one halfsphere to the another i don't see it as a possibility :| especially when u try to work near the pole of the magnet(nearly 90deg turn of curvature out of the main magnetic axis of a magnet).What could work is to create two side channels(slitted transformer core),at the side (half way from the either pole of magnet,like equator on the Earth).
In that place lines of flux are trying to go along the curve but nearly straight line.i guess is much easier to channel this lines here to go across 1 or the other Y junction in transformet core.
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Magnethos on July 05, 2008, 02:59:52 PM
yes, you can extract energy from magnets. Magnets have energy inside in form of magnetic energy. You can extract that energy using a simple electric generator and moving the magnets. But if you want to extract that energy from a static device, you must to destabilize the magnetic field of the magnet using a tecnique (I don?t know what technique). And is good too, to use a special magnet that has a stronger magnetic field. I read an article that said that an inventor mixed some ingredients by error an make the strongest magnetic material ever, and obtained an infinite magnetic battery.
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Koen1 on July 05, 2008, 06:25:10 PM
wow gee really? so magnets produce magnetic energy?
and there is an infinite magnetic battery?

gosh, I guess I must have been stupid then eh?

Well, please enlighten us and give us some solid links,
leads, etc, to this infinite battery and its inventor?

And while you're at it, perhaps you could explain what exactly
"magnetic energy" is? I know of the magnetic field,
but not of a special form of energy that it consists of.
There is a certain level of energy contained in electromagnetic
waves, but in a magnetostatic field?
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: Magnethos on July 05, 2008, 06:30:20 PM
wow gee really? so magnets produce magnetic energy?
and there is an infinite magnetic battery?

gosh, I guess I must have been stupid then eh?

Well, please enlighten us and give us some solid links,
leads, etc, to this infinite battery and its inventor?

And while you're at it, perhaps you could explain what exactly
"magnetic energy" is? I know of the magnetic field,
but not of a special form of energy that it consists of.
There is a certain level of energy contained in electromagnetic
waves, but in a magnetostatic field?

Sorry for my poor english, maybe I haven?t explained as well as I want. Yes, I mean magnetic field and not magnetic energy, sorry. I will try to find the article in google and if I find it I will post it.
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: 0ne on July 05, 2008, 07:28:01 PM
Magnet battery:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4762.0.html

Surprised no one linked to it.
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: FrozenWaterLab on August 21, 2010, 01:26:24 PM
This is similar
They have proved beyond doubt that the invention is practical and that when finally brought to a state of perfection it will introduce a new epoch in the industrial use of electricity. By Westinghouse meters they tested the strength of the current gathered from the air, and with the use of only two of the four rectifying transformers the voltmeter recorded four and one-half volts, and the ammeter, which had the capacity of recording 75 amperes, was broken by the force of the current.
The machine itself is simple. It is in reality a transformer, which is familiar to anyone knowing anything at all about electricity in its practical uses. On a high tripod, which resembles somewhat the framework of a windmill tower, is the transformer, which Mr Meyers calls his ‘absorber’. It is made up of an iron core, wrapped with copper wire. The secret of the invention is the manner in which the disks composing this ‘absorber’ are magnetized, and this secret Meyers says he found by accident while at work in prison.
What the machine, when finally perfected, will do is yet to be seen. Its inventor claims that it will greatly reduce the cost of making electricity. No batteries of any kind are needed, he says, and not a part of the machine turns upon the other. It is as durable, apparently, as an electric light pole. One of these machines, says Meyers, when perfected may be placed on a vehicle and transform enough electricity to give motive power, be that vehicle a locomotive or an automobile. He declared it can be placed on a building to furnish electric lights or power, and that the only wear will be upon the machinery which its current runs.
Meyers is 34 years old and he gained his knowledge of electricity by working in shops along the Pacific Coast. The depths of the mysteries of electricity he has not explored, but he is certain that he has found the means of absorbing it from the air and of converting it to the use of mankind.

British (GB) Patent # 191301098
Title: Re: magnetic battery
Post by: resonanceman on August 21, 2010, 07:53:16 PM
This is similar
They have proved beyond doubt that the invention is practical and that when finally brought to a state of perfection it will introduce a new epoch in the industrial use of electricity. By Westinghouse meters they tested the strength of the current gathered from the air, and with the use of only two of the four rectifying transformers the voltmeter recorded four and one-half volts, and the ammeter, which had the capacity of recording 75 amperes, was broken by the force of the current.
The machine itself is simple. It is in reality a transformer, which is familiar to anyone knowing anything at all about electricity in its practical uses. On a high tripod, which resembles somewhat the framework of a windmill tower, is the transformer, which Mr Meyers calls his ‘absorber’. It is made up of an iron core, wrapped with copper wire. The secret of the invention is the manner in which the disks composing this ‘absorber’ are magnetized, and this secret Meyers says he found by accident while at work in prison.
What the machine, when finally perfected, will do is yet to be seen. Its inventor claims that it will greatly reduce the cost of making electricity. No batteries of any kind are needed, he says, and not a part of the machine turns upon the other. It is as durable, apparently, as an electric light pole. One of these machines, says Meyers, when perfected may be placed on a vehicle and transform enough electricity to give motive power, be that vehicle a locomotive or an automobile. He declared it can be placed on a building to furnish electric lights or power, and that the only wear will be upon the machinery which its current runs.
Meyers is 34 years old and he gained his knowledge of electricity by working in shops along the Pacific Coast. The depths of the mysteries of electricity he has not explored, but he is certain that he has found the means of absorbing it from the air and of converting it to the use of mankind.

British (GB) Patent # 191301098

FrozenWaterLab

Are you planning  on trying to make  one of these?

I looked into it  years ago.

In my opinion  in general it is  a modified Tesla radiant energy receiver.
Teslas was much simpler.
I believe  that with his version  Tesla was using the ionosphere as one  plate of a capacitor and the top plate of his receiver as the other.
His receiver worked 24 hrs a day but  better in the daytime.......consistent with the ionosphere above the receiver  receiving  energy from the sun.
Other things from the Tesla patent that support the ion capacitor  theory..... Tesla said  the larger the plates the better....and the higher  the  plates the better.

If  you look  at what Meyers added to the basic Tesla radiant reciever  you will see that it looks  alot like  a gray tube.
Meyer used tubes with mercury in them ......if some of this mercury was ionized by  the electricity  it would make  a lower  voltage discharge tube.......but it would still create disruptive discharges .
Both the grey tube and the Meyer collector  use a sparkgap in the tube.....Meyer  used a coil of wire around the tube as to collect the charge........Grey used large plates  with holes in them.

The magnetic  part of the Meyer system looks to me to be very similar to the Sweets VTA.
Sweets said the magnets  had to be conditioned .......he used large  pulses from a capacitor bank.
If I am right  this  conditioning  was actually destroying the magnet in  a very specific way...... the idea  is to make a  large but week  magnetic field that can   be modulated by a small input  coil......if the magnets are just a little to strong ......no vibration.......no generator effect.

My big  problem  with the Meyer  receiver   is with lightning.
If I remember right  the  unit he wanted to build to power the whole  prison  was  to be placed on top of a 400 ft tower...... that makes a very good lightning rod......
I do remember Meyer designed some  very nice electromagnetic  controls so that lightning would  be passed to ground.... but I don't  think I could trust  my life  to building  those circuits perfectly.......


gary

Edit
 
in your diagram the  zinc is very small.
That makes it hard to see how it is similar to the Tesla Radiant reciever.
I believe in the patant  the zinc is  in fairly  large plates