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Author Topic: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car  (Read 17948 times)

Creativity

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Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« on: June 22, 2008, 08:24:59 PM »
hey,
like whenever i go and see someone building electric car,they use some DC jet engine starter electric motor.But where the heck to get one? :)
On the other hand there are plenty AC engines around.Like it is not difficult to find 2,2kW 220/380 V second hand engine for like 75 E !
Recently i found a 400V 9,5 kW 50Hz for 150E! those things are cheap,i got surprised :)
How much would cost to build a say 120V DC (10 car batteries) to 400V AC converter capable of 25 A(or should it be 75 A due to the  electric motor starting current)?
Best would be to run an electric motor on the highest possible voltage(low discharge current for batteries=> their longer life,also less resistance/heat losses).
So i thought of 'repairing' and electric motor through rewinding it for say 1200 V operational voltage.

My objective is to design a conversion under 1500E with second hand parts capable of running a car in the city conditions for min 2h.Onboard 3-5kW gasoline-electric generator,that i would tune up for economy.Pack of batteries recharged by generator on the long trips,recharged from the grid for short trips.Electric AC engine.Some controls.

any opinions?if u know anyone who knows how to build converters can u direct him here for some input?
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fritznien

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Re: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2008, 10:14:52 PM »
 have you considered the cost of the inverter to handle the power you need? how many kilowatts for your 2 hour range is how much weight of batteries? also what are you doing for speed control ? induction motors are pretty much one speed set by the frequency of the power.
 me i would get a kit and have the motor and the controller and all the bits to install them. do just about any car you want and with a good set of batteries go 100 miles at 60 mph.
 best of luck
fritz
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TheOne

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Re: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2008, 10:22:43 PM »
How many HP a DC jet engine have?

Also I hear they are not well suited for EV because they consume more energy to do the same work then a EV motor.

One of the best I see so far is the Motor WarP 9" ImPulse: http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/170

New WarP 9" "ImPulse" Up to 196 Volts

Diameter: 9"
Length: 14.69"
Actual Weight: 135 Lbs.
Bearing Type: Steel, Sealed, high temp
Drive Bearing: 6207
Com Bearing: 6305
Communtator: Silver Interlocking, Resin Core
Com Bars: 49
Spring #: 11880020
Brushes: 2 Required #10327002
Brush Type: Large
Insulation: Class "H"
Mounting Pattern: Same as ADC 8" & 9"
DE Length: 1.250"
DE Diameter: 1.1250"
DE Keyway: 0.250" *0.130"
DE Pilot Hole: 0.688" DIA
DE Mounting Hole: 5/16"-18
CE Length: 2.150"
CE Diameter: .705"
CE Mounting Hole: 1/4-20
Case Steel: 1020 or similar
Shaft Steel: 1144 stress proo

WarP 9" - One hour HP Rating = 28 HP at 89 volts (HP dramatically increases as voltage is increased)

For your conversion, the only problem with the price is the batteries! Just the batteries alone cost a lot. I am interested in EV as well. I read a lot about theme right now :)
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Creativity

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Re: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2008, 11:08:46 PM »
Quote from: fritznien on June 22, 2008, 10:14:52 PM
have you considered the cost of the inverter to handle the power you need? how many kilowatts for your 2 hour range is how much weight of batteries? also what are you doing for speed control ? induction motors are pretty much one speed set by the frequency of the power.
 me i would get a kit and have the motor and the controller and all the bits to install them. do just about any car you want and with a good set of batteries go 100 miles at 60 mph.
 best of luck
fritz
Car will be small,10-15HP is all i need for city driving.Will use gearbox for faster acceleration from 0-50km/h.
 now i am collecting possible solutions to implement it.As is should be cheap,no fancy converters i guess.Best way to controll power here is to have constant voltage and variable amperage or other way around.i guess impulse driven would get to deal with impedance of the motor and would be kind of messy.I know motors like the one i have in my mind have 2,5 -3 times higher startup amperage than at max rated power it may play some substabtial role then,no?.

to get a kit...were to get one?

Quote from: TheOne on June 22, 2008, 10:22:43 PM
How many HP a DC jet engine have?
no idea :) but probably not easy to get one. well a wild guess would be 50+HP

yes those old AC consume some amount of energy :| but imagine if it could be rewind to work on 1000V,amperage would go down 2,5-3 times and so resistance looses.We just brainstorm now so any idea will do  for a moment :)

btteries....simple car batteries ...what r others using?
i agee they r costy in all purpose car (city+highway).Lots of Ah's there.But if a car is used only in the city? mine driving is 100% city (due to traffic jams i prefer the motorbike on highways or trains).In the city like mine 2h are the worst condition,maximum speeds are 60km/h.So the need for charge storage goes down dramaticly.Not all the time engine is used, i let my car roll when i see red lights ahead.Iestimate the use of the engine as 60% of the driving time.With all this i estimate cost of batteries at 1000E (60E for 60Ah battery here).

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TheOne

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Re: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2008, 11:27:51 PM »
I dont have one yet i  just read a lot about it :)

Car batteries are the worse to use! You must use boat batteries. Car battery are made for "starting the engine" then the alternator generate all the energy needed. The battery cycle from a car battery are very low compared to the boat one.

With 10 batteries its not a lot, you should probably have a minimum of 20 batteries for a normal car just to get around 50miles.

So with 10, I guess your max distance would be around 20/25 miles.

Also AC controller cost too much, even a simple system can cost around 10k! You better to use Serial DC motor, you will save a lot with DC. You should read this book: http://www.amazon.ca/Build-Your-Own-Electric-Vehicle/dp/0830642315/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214170029&sr=8-1

Before you start building your EV :)
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Creativity

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Re: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2008, 11:32:50 PM »
Thx for tips!well in that case,pneumatic hybrid should be a way more affordable solution :)
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TheOne

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Re: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2008, 11:49:49 PM »
Ok the HP of the impulse motor is wrong, I showed the Warp 9, but the Impulse 9 is higher 38.6 HP (72 Volts, 400 Amps)*

http://www.go-ev.com/images/002_07_ImPulse_9_Sales_Sheet.pdf
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Gearhead

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Re: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2008, 05:31:52 AM »
There are a couple of companies I have been watching for awhile. They are more along the lines of servo motors with internal control circuitry so that they work for braking as well as driving.  I have thought of using Used Prius batteries (check eBay) for storage along with these type motors.  These are the links.

http://www.pmlflightlink.com/

http://www.poulsenhybrid.com/
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sky

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Re: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2008, 01:49:58 AM »
For low budget build and city driving less than 30mph this is what you want:

http://www.sunnev.com/index.html

or

http://www.zapworld.com/   

the zebra sedan has been available for a few years now. Top speed 40mph
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TheOne

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Re: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2008, 03:14:54 AM »
zapworld sell vehicule. not related to DIY

sunnev, I rather not use EV if that is the kit you are talking about LOL

Better to use a better motor with 20hp min, not something that looks like 1920 stuffs with to small motor.
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sky

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Re: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2008, 04:49:29 AM »
If the goal is DIY both of those models are an inexpensive base to get started from and have a working product to improve upon for between 5 and 10k. These are the cheapest home built electric budget cars I know of.

If you want to go more upscale you'll need to compile a number of components. Or you can pick a base and improve from there.

Warp 9 and impulse9 are both good DC motors and they will provide tech support to users.

Here's a good charge controller:

http://www.manzanitamicro.com

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Haliburton

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Re: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2008, 06:47:15 AM »
CHECK  THIS LINK OUT FOR MORE TIPS.  THIS GUY HAS ALOT OF INFO

http://www.rqriley.com/xr3.htm
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sky

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Re: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2008, 09:07:30 AM »
Here's a high end DIY. Complete kit just needs assembly. Been available for close to 3 years now.

http://www.commutercars.com/
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TheOne

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Re: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2008, 11:38:12 PM »
Quote from: sky on June 25, 2008, 09:07:30 AM
Here's a high end DIY. Complete kit just needs assembly. Been available for close to 3 years now.

http://www.commutercars.com/

Well for the price he his asking its not DIY

DIY is something like you upgrade your current vehicule for MUCH LESS then pay 18k for a kit. ZENN sell car for 16k (working no building process)

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sky

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Re: Some advice on an idea of home buil electric budget car
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2008, 01:41:54 AM »
Quote from: TheOne on June 25, 2008, 11:38:12 PM
Well for the price he his asking its not DIY

DIY is something like you upgrade your current vehicule for MUCH LESS then pay 18k for a kit. ZENN sell car for 16k (working no building process)



If you're thinking about a ZENN then you might as well get the faster, less expensive Zebra that i mentioned in an earlier post.

But neither the Zenn or the Zebra are in the same level of performance category as the Tango. A tango is faster off the line than a ferrari and has a 200 mile range on a single charge. If we want to talk about pre builts and you have the budget you could even consider
http://www.teslamotors.com/

After having spent a substantial amount of time over decades reviewing EV details It is clear to me that unless you have accesss to free parts from a junkyard you will be hard pressed to build a working all electric vehicle from scratch that provides comparable performance and esthetic to a Zebra for less money. This is why I posted it earlier as a good base to work from. You can go even cheaper with sunnev. Either choice will give a DIY a great base to build upon.


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