U can find about water electrolysis at
http://www.hydrogen.asn.au/hydrogen-technical-calculations.htm

I calculated and u will get from 1 l of water about 0,5 l of liquid hydrogen.

arh my friend, this is not about hydrogen, it is about HHO also called Brown's gas.
It implodes when burnt in a sealed container like a piston. The design of the Internal Combustion Engine turned on it's head so to speak. To much explodes, the right amount, should give a manageable implosion vacuum.

arh my friend, this is not about hydrogen, it is about HHO also called Brown's gas.
It implodes when burnt in a sealed container like a piston. The design of the Internal Combustion Engine turned on it's head so to speak. To much explodes, the right amount, should give a manageable implosion vacuum.

I guess im wrong but...
It seems that electrolysis output is hydrogen and oxygen ( separated ) then u are pushing this mixture true water and u are getting another element ? No way Maybe trick is that the content balance changes so u can get more energy out of burning it.

Browns Gas Generators
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKCuI9IWfZ4&feature=related

I guess the trick is that u can use electrical energy in more effective way for heat. But yea u need some water also.

Alot of this topics discussion is over my head but I do know the workings of a standard pistion engine. Seems it has too many difficulties to overcome. Just food for though, has anyone tried to use a rotary engine instead? It has no pistons or cams to deal with. Timing is handled with port sizing. It is a very small displacement engine and very smooth operating.

Very very interesting.
I am optomistic that balance of mixtures, valve intake time, and electrical timing, along with the combination of electronics feedback tuning will have a fine tuning effect.
<snip>

So back to your experiments, did the mixture expand then implode? or did it just implode? And was it perfectly sealed from any other air?

Expand and contract. I've blown up bubblers by doing it too.

The entire idea behind a bubbler is to capture any flashback so it will not destroy the HHO generation vessel. It's has a tube from the generation vessel entering from the top side area and continuing to the bottom of the bubbler. It's filled at least 3/4 of the way with water to prevent a "string" of bubbles from being able to support ignition PAST the water so the flashback (if any) does not go past that point and ignite the generation chamber. Then the gas bubbling up through the water goes to where you want to use it.

You need to go to YouTube and search for "HHO bubbler (or flashback)" and see the work that's being done in this area. It will give you a more complete understanding of HHO properties.

It is airtight to contain the HHO on it's way to its destination where it is usually used for it's explosive force.

This is why when I had my tiny aperture torch i was able to capture the vacuum effect in the bubbler.

For the stroke being too long, as you brought up, perhaps, opening valves for short times, to give only a minor amount in the cyclinder. Since this is more volatile in its power than petroleum, perhaps it doesnt need as much as would be mixed through the carbie, and the duration length of the intake valves cycle?

It's a bit of a balance, effect, but so is the modern carbie.

At higher RPM the storke cycle is probably fast enough to benefit from vacuum, but at low RPM the stroke is taking a lot longer and at that point robbing you of 1/2 the motive force at least IMHO.

I suggest the YouTube research as it will show you how "explosive" this idea has become lately.

Some other thoughts...

I'm not sure the engine can stand that type of hammering.

What I mean is, the explosion does have a energy output, even if not compressed.

It's just going to expend itself trying to push the crankshaft down below its lowest point?
It might be enough force to defeat the layer of oil that is the bearing and allowing surfaces to touch and wear.

I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but where is the explosion potential being used?

I have seen other stuff online since, showing that HHO can be in several forms as monoatomic or diatomic, with monoatomic being the Browns Gas, which still keeps the full ratio of HHO, and diatomic being split into a more unstable mixture instead of the compount. It was stated taht in a clear bottle stored Monoatomic became Diatomic, and is the unstable version prone to explosion.

Now back to the Engine. It seems from a very poor sound recording of Dr Brown, and other research that the internal combustion engine can be run directly on Brown's Gas HHO monoatomic.

This leaves two factors mentioned previous, to be considered. The expansion and the implosion of the gases in the cylinder chamber.
To have the piston timing firing when the piston is on the way from TDC to BDC, so that it fires very near prior to BDC, so that the timing of the "implosion" is at or closely after BDC. Of course with timing adjustments and electronics for speed variation advancing these days, it is possible to tune it for best effect. So that it takes advantage of both the properties. Assuming that it does have an expansion/explosion effect when ignited prior to the implosion effect. From what I saw in a video by an expert who has written a few books on Brown's Gas (which may vary slightly to HHO if the HHO is diatomic and not monoatomic), then from that he does not mention the expansion, only the implosion. A ratio of 1800 into 1, kind of the opposite of steam or the opposite of the expansion process.

So it is very possible there is a flame reaction going into implosion as the gases retract into the water molecule. Which was my original understanding. I really need to do my own lab experimentation research on this. He also talks of a third state of this gas, which he speculates is ionized, and is used by others to run cars on water.

Also...
There is another guy I saw in USA making a cell system to run on 32 plates in series with 120VAC supplied, with diodes to pulse it. He used this to make a plasma torch for cutting and welding. I also saw in his comments, saying he runs his car and a generator and gas heater all on this save HHO. So does no longer pay for electricity and is off the grid by "water power".
heres his video channel http://www.metacafe.com/channels/cheaphardwarez/

Alot of this topics discussion is over my head but I do know the workings of a standard pistion engine. Seems it has too many difficulties to overcome. Just food for though, has anyone tried to use a rotary engine instead? It has no pistons or cams to deal with. Timing is handled with port sizing. It is a very small displacement engine and very smooth operating.

Here's an animation I am working on for the final compare...
First here is the 4 stroke engine, the regular one in cars these days, which normally runs gasoline/petroleum (gas/petrol).

Notice it has a 1 to 2 (1:2) ratio for the cams rotations to the crankshaft.

4 Cycles (strokes)
1. Intake
Starting at the top (Top Dead Centre (TDC)) the piston starts towards the bottom, with the intake valve opening, and letting the fuel/air mixture in, the piston act like a pump it sucks in the fuel. The valve closes according to design, usually before the bottom (Bottom Dead Center (BDC)).

2.Compression
The cyclinder is now sealed, and starts to go from BDC towards TDC and compresses the fuel/air mixture.

3. Firing
Just before TDC the spark plug fires, usually a few degrees before TDC, and ignites the fuel/air mixture. The intertia of the flywheel keeps the crankshaft spinning, along with the delay in igniting the fuel and it's burn rate, and gets past TDC before the full expansion occurs, which then drives the piston downwards towards BDC.

4. Exhaust
After BDC the expansion having finished, the piston starts to rise up toward TDC again, and starts to compress the burn up gases (Carbon Monoxide (CO2)) and then it opens the exhaust valve, and the CO2 is released under pressure, as well as with the pumping effect of the piston, pushing it out the exhaust port. The valve closes just prior to TDC ready to take in more fuel/air mixture and the cycle starts all over again.

To maintain an idle speed, it is usually around 250 to 850 RPM (Revolutions Per Minute) Depending on the number of cyclinders. More cyclinders requires less speed to maintain idle speed. Any lower and the engine stalls from not being able to maintain the cycle. Redline (Max Speed) is around 5000 to 6000 RPM, with variations due to make etc. Motorcylces like 250cc usually idle between 1000 to 1250 RPM and often redline at 9,000 to 12,000 RPM. V8 cars often redline at 4500. Though most of these figures are 20 years old and from memory.

Heres the animation...
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn108/zenarrow/4strokeSlow.gif)
Note the cams here are showing only 4 positions and would normally rotate smoothly.

Heres a faster animation which hides the pulses better with the illusion of animation.
(motion pictures are really still images at 25 to 30 frames per second.

(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn108/zenarrow/4strokeSmooth.gif)

Note that fuel burns at a set rate, so the faster the RPM, the sooner the fuel needs to be ignited. This is called ignition advance. These days they are electronic, in the old days they used points switches on a cam, which would then have weights which would spin outwards to a maximu distance with some variation, moving the points cam (not shown) to advance from typically 4 Degrees BTC (standard) to the fully advanced setting of around 25 Deg BTC. Some even much more.

With HHO additive to standard fuels, as there is much about on the net and in here. The petrol gasoline then burns faster, burning more fuel, making it more efficient. For unburnt fuel ends up in the exhaust pipe, showing a black soot on the plugs coloration.

Note the cam chain is also shown here. Which also requires the cams set for best timing. The lobes on the cam effecting how long the valves are open and closed. Hence high performance cams get more power again. There is always a balance between fuel enconomy and power. HHO gives more power as an additive.

The eventual idea here is to run the whole engine on HHO, then the oil companies will not be so happy, for they seem to want to make lots of money as soon as possible, and don't care about the environment consequences. Even now they are drilling for more oil, while the rest of the world is saying go green.

It is possible to run most of your fuel in home and car, from cooking to heating, all from HHO, Brown's Gas. The technology just needs to be established to be off the shelf. But there are many do it yourself kits about for many aspect of utlizing it. Look about the net and videos channels many are showing how to do it with off the shelve bits from the hardware store.

Note these are DOHC (double overhead cams) engines. And allows for easy timing changes of cams on a work bench. Usually the cogs on the cams are twice the size of the cog on the crankshaft for the 1:2 ratio of cam 1 rev to the cranks 2 revs. An old motocycle engine would be good as well.

HHO when ignited does not implode.  It explodes.

True, the volume of liquid water is less than the volume of HHO at the same temperature, but:

1)  The water produced is not liquid.  It is steam.
2)  The temperature of the steam produced is much greater than the temp. of the HHO.

Only by extracting-away the heat, (and thus condensing the steam), can a vacuum be produced.

You can make a very good vacuum by rapidly cooling steam in a sealed vessel.  I once was steaming vegetables in an electric wok with a hemispherical lid.  The water all boiled away, and to avoid a smelly cloud from filling the room, I transfered the whole apparatus to the sink (after unplugging it of course), and ran cold water over the top.  The steam inside condensed and the lid became STUCK to the wok because the steam inside condensed, creating a very good vacuum.  I couldn't separate the lid, no matter how hard I tried.  I actually cracked a rib trying to torque the lid off!  I should have just heated -up the wok again, but I wasn't thinking clearly.  Eventually, I hit the lid as hard as I could with a pair of pliers, and *foom*  the lid popped off, bent itself into a banana-like shape, flipped into the air with an odd dissonant ringing sound, and a cloud of cold water vapor materialized in midair right in front of my eyes.  Crazy.

Anyway, the only way you could make the HHO -->  H₂O reaction produce a vacuum is if you could find a way to extract the thermal energy of the resulting steam, thereby condensing it.  This is unlikely to happen within the short time-period of a single cycle of a piston engine.

I suppose you are right, after all.

It explodes, then quickly implodes.  The implosion wins.  The thermal energy of the steam created by the reaction is negated by its rapid expansion.  This causes the hot steam to rapidly cool and condense to vapor, resulting in a net implosion effect.

in case you haven't seen these, check out,

http://www.youtube.com/user/CarbideTip

Cheers.