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Author Topic: Besslers Wheel Theory  (Read 6642 times)

Offline Alexioco

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Besslers Wheel Theory
« on: June 11, 2008, 11:14:54 AM »
Working out Besslers Code

First of all I would like to thank members for help
throughout my quest, not all information here is mine...

MT 10
? Bessler wrote:
MT10... This is exactly the previous model, except that the weight-poles are more curved and longer. The principle is good, but the figure is not yet complete until I delineate it much differently at the appropriate place and indicate the correct handle-construction.

When he says "correct handle-construction" this could be a play on words;
Correct - Incorrect
Right - Wrong
Right - Left

What he might be saying is that his wheel is incorrect/wrong/left and that it should be Correct/right.

Meaning that MT 10 is upside down and backwards.

(http://i32.tinypic.com/2dbnplf.jpg)

? Bessler wrote:
Seen sideways or full face it is as glorious as a peacock's tail.

Yes, the correct wheel does look like a peacock?s tail...

Also by having the weights release at the right time they can swing in at the bottom and climb out at the top...

MT 11
? Bessler wrote:
MT11... This figure is doubled, as one can see, and the form does not involve much, but there is more in it than meets the eye, as will be seen when I pull back the curtain and disclose the correct principle at the appropriate place, as mentioned previously.

Again, MT 11 could be upside down and backwards

(http://i29.tinypic.com/21kfl7n.jpg)

The inner weights could possibly control the outer weights...

MT 14
? Bessler wrote:
MT14... This invention is somewhat speculative, and the internal cross-tensions with the weights are movable; therefore, when the weights raise up one another, the cross-tensions are pulled up with their weights at the same time. What is objectionable about this model, what to learn from it and how it can and may be used, will all be treated later.

MT 14 has something all the other wheels have, and that?s the outer weights are connected to each other which act as one big weight  for lifting the inner weighted tensions.

Bessler also says;
If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in my machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it can hardly turn itself at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulleys and weights, the machine can revolve much faster.

So it seems that the cross bars could be the cross tensions in MT 14 and MT 15

(http://i28.tinypic.com/23icc9t.jpg)

MT 15
? Bessler wrote:
MT15... This ratchet-wheel derives from the previous model, except that the tensions are somewhat longer and have an additional special weight at the external ends. From this drawing alone, however, nothing of the prime mover's source can be seen or deduced although the figure shows the superior weight.

Mt 15 works in the same way as MT 14 except that the cross tensions have longer poles attached to them with weights at the end in order to create an off balance...

Note that the wheel has been drawn backwards which might mean it needs to be turned the other way, also the wheel must be very important to be the odd wheel out...

Also the inner weights are bent at an angle like the weights in MT 13 and also the inner weights are not connected to each other like the weights in MT 14.

Two other things to note that;

1. With the tensions being longer than the levers, they are more dominant over them.
2. With the tensions being longer, that means there is room for inner weights like in MT 11.

(http://i30.tinypic.com/110ylms.jpg)
(http://i31.tinypic.com/23lehac.jpg)

MT 18
? Bessler wrote:
MT18... This is the previous spring-model, and it seems to be good, but seeming is different from being. In the meantime, the principle should not be disdained or entirely disregarded, for it says more than it shows. I, however, will show more than speak of it at the appropriate place.

In MT 18 he uses springs, and it could be that, what Bessler is not saying is that when  the weights that are attached to the end of the springs and bend near the top of the wheel, the springs fling the weight upwards and over because the springs are not in their natural position...

Also at the point before the weight is flung up near the top of the wheel, the weight becomes lighter as the spring is trying to lift the weight and if a tiny force is added, the weight flies upwards, a lighter weight can also lift the heavier weight on the spring using this effect...

(http://i29.tinypic.com/nzhy7b.jpg)

MT 19
? Bessler wrote:
MT19... This figure may be called a mere demonstration. There are nothing but levers with weights at the front ends of the levers, and if they are not very useful, they are also not harmful most of the time. A good friend, however, was violently injured by them. I cannot discuss it further. He endured more than I can mention here.

The weights not being harmful is a good thing, so it must be correct how the weights are facing inwards, but then Bessler contradicts himself by saying his friend was violently injured by one, could this mean that the weights and levers represent something?

(http://i25.tinypic.com/2118ocy.jpg)

MT 20
? Bessler wrote:
MT20... Here the previous levers work somewhat more peculiarly and raise up special weights and turn outward to the over balance. For this reason side A is always heavier, my friend supposed but I denied. I then reminded him to harness the horse in front.

The levers and weights might represent horses, the weights being their heads and the levers being their bodies and the little outward weights could be a person, his friend who was violently injured by a horse? Bessler then goes on to say to harness the horse in front, his friend (Little outward weight) must be sitting on the horse backwards; he needs to face the front...
It says in MT 19
There are nothing but levers with weights at the front ends of the levers.
meaning the large weight (horse head) is the front...
(http://i30.tinypic.com/2cr4ie8.jpg)

The little weights could also be a cart which is harnessed on the wrong side of the horse, if the two weights are swapped like so
(http://i30.tinypic.com/rhjs5z.jpg)
Then it looks like the horse is now pulling the cart...

On the toys page it says;
- shows fat men swinging large short hammers against an anvil and skinny men swinging lighter long handled axes chopping wood.

Well now that the weights have been swapped, there are inward small weights on long levers and large weight on short levers, now when a weight is further from the axle than the opposite weight, then the weight that is further from the axle is in effect heavier, so if a light weight is far enough from the axle and a larger weight is close enough to the axle, the lighter weight should lift the heavier weight...

The smaller weights in MT 20 should now lift the larger weights as they are further from the pivot point...

MT 24
? Bessler wrote:
MT24... This invention ought not to be scorned. It consists of separate levers with weights. Between the weights are small iron poles with screw threads. The poles fall inward when the levers close. There is something one must learn first before one can grasp and correctly understand the good quality of the invention.

One must learn something, could this be that;
1. When the weights close at the bottom, the pole that it pushed up cannot fall back down as the pole becomes trapped through the weight.
2. The weights can be lighter than the poles as the lever mechanism is positioned in a strong and effective way?

(http://i26.tinypic.com/w1pgg8.jpg)

MT 25
? Bessler wrote:
MT25... This is the previous model except for some differences. It is sketched with longer poles. There is something misleading about the diagram, for the poles, when coming out, must not project so far out but must bend somewhat further inwardly. There is more to it than one supposes; one must study the diagram extensively.

When Bessler says "There is more to it than one supposes; one must study the diagram extensively."
(http://i26.tinypic.com/2qjaqud.jpg)

Well after study it seems that the centre of the wheel is a pulley and that cords run from one weight, around the pulley and across to the opposite weight so that when one weight falls at the top, the other is pulled up by the cord...
(the red and blue lines are the cords running to each weight)
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2yx3huc.jpg)

So when Bessler says;
If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in my machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it can hardly turn itself at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulleys and weights, the machine can revolve much faster.

He may be referring to MT 25...

MT 27
? Bessler wrote:
MT27... This is the previous model slightly larger and altered: A are the levers interrupted at B and having a heart-weight at C, and D are the straps, or cords, and chains. It needs no further, lengthier explanation. This view shows what the thing might do if several things of this sort were placed next to one another along an axle-shaft.

When Bessler says
"This view shows what the thing might do if several things of this sort were placed next to one another along an axle-shaft."
Well the wheel will not turn as there is also an augmented problem in this wheel, so what is he really trying to get at? Well if you copy the mechanism equally four times around the axle/shaft you get MT 137, but only an 8 pointed star, not a 12 pointed star like MT 137.
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2uf6e12.jpg)

Also the amazing thing about this wheel is that if just one heart weight is in the wheel, it is capable of lifting itself half way up the wheel and into the axle, but if the weight is too heavy, then it wont lift unless a lighter weight is attached on the ascending side of the wheel.
(http://i31.tinypic.com/2rolxsn.jpg)
The way the weight lifts is;
As the weight puts its pressure on the lever which is attached to the top of the wheel, it pulls the wheel down and continues to pull that side of the wheel down while the cord guides the weight into the centre.

MT Toys Page
1. ? Bessler on the Toy's Page wrote:
Children's game in which there is something extraordinary for anyone who knows how to apply the game in a different way.

2. ? Bessler on the Toy's Page wrote:
- shows two hammer men toys with two men each. Each man swings a weight.

3 ? Bessler on the Toy's Page wrote:
- shows two hammer men toys with one swung to the right and one swung to the left.

4. ? Bessler on the Toy's Page wrote:
- shows what looks like a link chain on the far right side.
- shows what looks like a Jacob's Ladder toy on the right side.
- shows a scissor-jack on the left side

5. ? Bessler on the Toy's Page wrote:
- shows fat men swinging large short hammers against an anvil and skinny men swinging lighter long handled axes chopping wood.

6. ? Bessler on the Toy's Page wrote:
- shows the skinny men with twisted clothing

7. ? Bessler on the Toy's Page wrote:
- shows a toy top that will flip over, end for end when spun.

5. The longer handled axes/poles could be the longer tensions in MT 15
6. Could the twisted clothing represent springs like MT 18?

(http://www.creationtime.com/MTHard138_139_140_141.gif)

Now After some various study and understanding of these wheels, we can start to try and combined them.

P.s This info is from my forum (see signature) I will be constantly updating all of my finds there...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Besslers Wheel Theory
« on: June 11, 2008, 11:14:54 AM »

Offline dirt diggler

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2008, 04:48:44 PM »
Alexcio: 

I always enjoy reading your descriptions of besselers wheels, you have had many great insights.
however, I dissagree with the analagy of MT19 & MT20. I believe that when besseler says that the weights are not useful or harmful, he is not talking personal harm, they just are not helping the movement.  I think if MT 19 and MT20 need to be reversed, with the pivots on the inside.  then they are "facing the front". 
Probably wrong, but I enjoy looking at them anyways ;D

Dirt Diggler

Online ramset

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2008, 05:05:47 PM »
ALEXIOCO thanks for all the brain twisters that# 27 hurts the most {sweet]  Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2008, 05:05:47 PM »
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Offline Alexioco

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2008, 07:08:38 PM »
Alexcio: 

I always enjoy reading your descriptions of besselers wheels, you have had many great insights.
however, I dissagree with the analagy of MT19 & MT20. I believe that when besseler says that the weights are not useful or harmful, he is not talking personal harm, they just are not helping the movement.  I think if MT 19 and MT20 need to be reversed, with the pivots on the inside.  then they are "facing the front". 
Probably wrong, but I enjoy looking at them anyways ;D

Dirt Diggler

hmm Interesting, the only problem with that is Bessler said no weights hang from the axle of his wheel, also soon I'm going to post ways you might combined those wheels which you should find very interesting indeed  ;D

Offline dirt diggler

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2008, 01:57:52 AM »
hmm Interesting, the only problem with that is Bessler said no weights hang from the axle of his wheel, also soon I'm going to post ways you might combined those wheels which you should find very interesting indeed  ;D

Interesting indeed.  I think it is assumed that all besselers wheels were attached to the axel, my thoughts when looking at the drawings are that it is a fixed axel, with the wheel running on the axel. perhaps with a tube over the axel if it is a deeper wheel.  in this manner, some of the wheels can be reversed, and still not be attached to the axel.
I believe this is one of the misdiections that he played. if you look at some of the MT's it looks like there could be a center fixed axel. MT 19 and MT20 are good examples of this.

let me know what you think ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2008, 01:57:52 AM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2008, 01:59:56 AM »
Hay Alex

 I have a approach for you. You have been trying to mirror them, don't. I'll post the answer on your forum. ;D

Offline DrWhat

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2008, 01:12:49 AM »
We must always be careful with what Bessler says. He says that "no weights HANG from the axle", but this doesn't exclude weights connected to the axle which press ON TOP of the axle when above and which are below it when rotated and are connected to the axle but which LEAN on the base circumference of the wheel. By that I mean they may look like they are hanging but in fact they are resting on another point of the wheel.

Bessler was very coy and cryptic in his descriptions. The meanings should be taken literally but not in their most obvious way!

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2008, 01:12:49 AM »
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Offline jeremy

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2008, 09:19:25 PM »
Alex, don't give up.  I played with this stuff about 10 years ago and finally got a wheel to spin on its own.  It was one one of the double-falpper setups.  It was real tricky and took me a couple of months, but then I did it. It spun on its own for a whole day until something got out of allignment.   I do not remember what I did, as it was a real complicated process, and I think I ended up taking the wheel apart for other projects, but it did work.  I remember it had to do with precise lengths and weights on the flaps.  Good luck, I am sure you will figure it out.

Offline Sprocket

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2008, 03:42:45 AM »
I have been playing around with WM2D again - below is my attempt at modelling MT_25.  After playing around with it for awhile, it is easy to see why this design would not work.  Also tried MT-27 which seems more promising - using 3 weights, at one stage I was getting almost 2 revolutions before it back-peddled.  With 4 weights, nothing - I'll try 5 next...  I'll post it when it looks 'prettier' :)

Speaking of which - can someone tell me how to alter an objects colour?



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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2008, 03:42:45 AM »
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Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2008, 07:14:33 AM »


Speaking of which - can someone tell me how to alter an objects colour?




@ sprocket

select item to be coloured, go to top menu bar, select window, select appearance, change colour

Hans von Lieven

Offline aleks

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2008, 07:41:12 PM »
Your MT wheel drawings strongly suggest to me that wheel works on the "transient" principle meaning that it gains overunity energy mainly because some element of the wheel is constrained (e.g. ball's fall constrained by rigid material). I have given a reasoning on why "transient" principle may produce overunity in my DC acoustic waves hypothesis:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:Anti-Gravity:DC_Acoustic_Waves_Hypothesis

Each time some element in the system is "stopped" (stretched, constrained), this produces DC movement gradient (DC acoustic wave) around that element. It may be hard to grasp, but mathematically it's a definitive thing - it's a thing that was overlooked by physical science in general. While transient (DC) analysis is an important part in circuitry testing, such analysis is lacking in physics, and especially in acoustics. Somebody will think it's not important, but I personally think it is very important.

So, the more "stoppers" you add to the system the easier it will gain overunity energy. Frequent abrupt movements is a key to overunity here.

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2008, 07:41:12 PM »
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Offline Alexioco

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2008, 03:43:58 PM »
I now think that for a gravity wheel to work, the mechanism must take care of itself, remember the mechanism must of been very unstable as it had no balance, therefore controlled weights will not result in Perpetual Motion, the mechanism must not just turn itself, but keep itself together which would be very tricky, the only way I can put it is like this, try balancing 3 cones on top of one another, nearly impossible yet if you span them they would hold each other up, this is how the mechanism IMPO must be, a self controlling mechanism... 

Offline aleks

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2008, 04:14:39 PM »
To add to my post above, we should be looking for "transient force potential". It's the thing that separates a stand-still body from a moving body. Repulsion of bodies is impossible otherwise. Without such "transient force potential" appearing bodies would go through each other without interference or repulsion.

The possible truth about this "transient force potential" is that it will repel particles that are not even participating in a collision. That is why energy can be gained. You collide two particles and as a result you get several nearby particles accelerated or slowed down. In average (like in a particle collider), conservation of energy is fulfilled, but in special conditions (special particle symmetry) energy of bodies can be both created and destroyed.

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Besslers Wheel Theory
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2008, 04:26:17 PM »
Now that I have posted all of that info, is anyone going to add anything or somehow make any discoveries out of it? I am currently getting so many ideas now, I havn't got time to write them all down, I have found interesting things with the toy page, the pantograph, the MT wheels, his descriptions and quoates, springs plus a lot more, what I need to do is write everything I have found down in some logical order so we may all study it and that other members may add on it what I myself have not found, its about time we got this wheel...

Edit: I need someone to help me document all the things I have found, if so, I will happily share all I have found...

 

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