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Author Topic: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?  (Read 10251 times)

Offline 22350

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what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« on: June 01, 2008, 09:56:18 PM »
Has anyone done work, using a natural gas carburetor?

Do the systems not put out enough output? 

Does the HHO not work in that sort of carburetor?

Just curious?

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Offline gazzzwp

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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2008, 10:41:47 PM »
Not sure what would be gained by using natural gas.

In the UK it is becoming as expensive as petrol.

Gazza


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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2008, 10:53:22 PM »
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Offline 22350

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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2008, 12:13:18 AM »
Not sure what would be gained by using natural gas.

In the UK it is becoming as expensive as petrol.

Gazza

I think that maybe you guys are misunderstanding.

Why hasn't anyone run HHO gas into a "natural gas" carburetor?

Thus replacing the natural gas with HHO.


Offline powercat

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Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2008, 01:05:29 AM »
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Offline 22350

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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2008, 02:05:11 AM »
@22350

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4713.0.html


pc

great link, but still no discussion of using natural gas carburettors.

Offline resonanceman

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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2008, 06:35:15 AM »
great link, but still no discussion of using natural gas carburettors.



Not exactly    .........reply  18 says  something about a natural gas carburettors require around  5 psi
this  implies that  you would have to  run  your electoliser at  that pressure .   
Storing  HHO is not practical  because it is  just water and  quickly  turns  back  into water  if not  used right away  .

A  small short  term  storage tank  might  be possible .........but you would still have to  match  the  output of the cell  with the needs of the engine  very closely .

I would  think that  the things to focus on right now are   making a cell  that is big enough  ..........and  able to be controled over a wide range of outputs  ..........     

Personally  I like the   direct  water injection / plasma ignition  idea  better .   


gary



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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2008, 06:35:15 AM »
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Offline 22350

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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2008, 06:44:09 AM »

Not exactly    .........reply  18 says  something about a natural gas carburettors require around  5 psi
this  implies that  you would have to  run  your electoliser at  that pressure .   
Storing  HHO is not practical  because it is  just water and  quickly  turns  back  into water  if not  used right away  .

A  small short  term  storage tank  might  be possible .........but you would still have to  match  the  output of the cell  with the needs of the engine  very closely .

I would  think that  the things to focus on right now are   making a cell  that is big enough  ..........and  able to be controled over a wide range of outputs  ..........     

Personally  I like the   direct  water injection / plasma ignition  idea  better .   


gary




Funny you should mention that.  I was just looking at that from SirHoax on youtube. 

I think that it might be the key, but not by itself.  What if you used a combination of the two ideas?  Do the plasma detonation and also use stan meyers gas generating cell.

That combo would account for the fact that no one has been able to figure out how to get his cell working independently.

I don't know.  Seems funny, but he spent a lot of time on those cells, but in the video he is holding something that looks like a plasma detonator.

Why both??  They say to mislead, but maybe not

Gary, where are you from?

Offline resonanceman

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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2008, 07:44:42 PM »
Funny you should mention that.  I was just looking at that from SirHoax on youtube. 

I think that it might be the key, but not by itself.  What if you used a combination of the two ideas?  Do the plasma detonation and also use stan meyers gas generating cell.

That combo would account for the fact that no one has been able to figure out how to get his cell working independently.

I don't know.  Seems funny, but he spent a lot of time on those cells, but in the video he is holding something that looks like a plasma detonator.

Why both??  They say to mislead, but maybe not

Gary, where are you from?

22350

I am  from  SE pennsylvania

2 hrs north of DC


Have you read the   " My s1r9a9m9 replication!  "    thread?

The  original  car is  close to what I would be  shooting for .

The  idea of running the  exhaust into the   fuel tank is  brilliant ..........most of the  exhaust would   condense

As I understand  this car ......it  doesn't actually  burn the water .......the  plasma  just flashes  it into steam .  .........if  the power  was  there  just  using  water and plasma   that is what I  would  stick with .      If    it  didn't have enough power  adding  HHO  would  be the next step ...... enough HHO and  you  can almost  gaurentee   that any water  that is injected  will get flashed into steam   


gary

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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2008, 07:44:42 PM »
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Offline 22350

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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2008, 08:34:04 PM »
22350

I am  from  SE pennsylvania

2 hrs north of DC


Have you read the   " My s1r9a9m9 replication!  "    thread?

The  original  car is  close to what I would be  shooting for .

The  idea of running the  exhaust into the   fuel tank is  brilliant ..........most of the  exhaust would   condense

As I understand  this car ......it  doesn't actually  burn the water .......the  plasma  just flashes  it into steam .  .........if  the power  was  there  just  using  water and plasma   that is what I  would  stick with .      If    it  didn't have enough power  adding  HHO  would  be the next step ...... enough HHO and  you  can almost  gaurentee   that any water  that is injected  will get flashed into steam   


gary

Looked at it, very interesting.  Seems like his test engine might be a bit of a hindrance.

Was looking at the Stanley Meyer video again and it really looks like he was depending solely on those injector / igniter.  I wonder if he also used the hho generator to facilitate expansion?

Has anyone just used a natural gas carburetor?  I have asked this a few times and never really got an answer.  Seems like the obvious solution, at which point it would just be an issue of hho generation at levels necessary.

p

Offline Creativity

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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2008, 11:59:06 PM »
Has anyone done work, using a natural gas carburetor?

Do the systems not put out enough output? 

Does the HHO not work in that sort of carburetor?

Just curious?

I haven't heard about anyone using it,but i haven't searched neither.CNG system for hydrogen is quite reasonable choice,but be aware of what comes.

I use in my car LPG and a simple carburator for it (venturi)The problem of using of this setup is occasional backfire if the mixture is too lean.In that case i get a severe expolsion inside of an intake manifold and few times i had to replace the blown off airfilter(once i even got my injector loose hanging...).Keep it in good mixture range or reduce the voume occupied by exposive mixture is the lesson.Starting from generation III LPG Sytems get rid of a mixer(carburator) an went direction of injection=>better distributiona and less volume occupied by mixture in manifold.

Another point of attention is mixture distribution between the cylinders.The leanest cylinder will cause the back fire.In carburated engines a lot of design issues arise to obtain even mixture distribution.That's why most of the time carburated engine will have symmetric manifold.Injected engines have no problem with it and manifold is most of the time asymetric(fuel is injected in almost exactly the same dosis in every cylinder anyhow ).

Fitting of a CNG carburator on asymetric manifold will make a mixture distribution problem + a lot of explosive gases inside of a manifold.This would be  a problem if u had substantial amount of HHO.Manifold volume is in liters range,just imagine what bang would it cause to backfire.So this should be a warning is somone will try to supply an engine with substantial amounts of HHO(>30L/min).

However,for small amounts of HHO (on a level of 2l/min) HHO is so low percent of total gas flow of an engine,that it should not be a problem if engine is injected type.Concentration of Hydrogen would be simply to low to explode or even ignite.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2008, 11:59:06 PM »
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Offline 22350

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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2008, 12:19:12 AM »
I haven't heard about anyone using it,but i haven't searched neither.CNG system for hydrogen is quite reasonable choice,but be aware of what comes.

I use in my car LPG and a simple carburator for it (venturi)The problem of using of this setup is occasional backfire if the mixture is too lean.In that case i get a severe expolsion inside of an intake manifold and few times i had to replace the blown off airfilter(once i even got my injector loose hanging...).Keep it in good mixture range or reduce the voume occupied by exposive mixture is the lesson.Starting from generation III LPG Sytems get rid of a mixer(carburator) an went direction of injection=>better distributiona and less volume occupied by mixture in manifold.

Another point of attention is mixture distribution between the cylinders.The leanest cylinder will cause the back fire.In carburated engines a lot of design issues arise to obtain even mixture distribution.That's why most of the time carburated engine will have symmetric manifold.Injected engines have no problem with it and manifold is most of the time asymetric(fuel is injected in almost exactly the same dosis in every cylinder anyhow ).

Fitting of a CNG carburator on asymetric manifold will make a mixture distribution problem + a lot of explosive gases inside of a manifold.This would be  a problem if u had substantial amount of HHO.Manifold volume is in liters range,just imagine what bang would it cause to backfire.So this should be a warning is somone will try to supply an engine with substantial amounts of HHO(>30L/min).

However,for small amounts of HHO (on a level of 2l/min) HHO is so low percent of total gas flow of an engine,that it should not be a problem if engine is injected type.Concentration of Hydrogen would be simply to low to explode or even ignite.

I am looking to apply this to a single cylinder engine, something like a generator.  200cc  it has a very small manifold.

i just wonder how much gas would be required to keep an engine that size running?


Offline Creativity

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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2008, 12:45:49 AM »
I am looking to apply this to a single cylinder engine, something like a generator.  200cc  it has a very small manifold.

i just wonder how much gas would be required to keep an engine that size running?



well in that case u will probably have a hard time to find a carburator to fit onto small generator as this one :| i would just go for a simple venturi as in a first or second vacuum LPG instalation.Basically only a Venturi between the butterfly and air filter.

I won't go to deep in engine breathing factors as it is a science in itself.
Let say generator runs full load at 2500 rpm's(wide open butterfly full power,best efficiency condition).It is a four stroker so every 2nd rotations it sucks air.(2500*0,2/2)*0,7= 175 liters per minute of gases sucked in.0,7 is volumetric efficiency,normally is between 0,55-0,85 in a simple engine without wave tuning done,naturally aspirated and in some range of operation only(butterlfy fully open).

Let us neglate oxygen in HHO.4% of H2 is needed to start a flame in air.Very lean and low power though.In simple terms say it is in volume relation.
So something in order of 5+ liters out of 175 would have to be HHO,that is per minute.

Offline resonanceman

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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2008, 12:50:16 AM »
I am looking to apply this to a single cylinder engine, something like a generator.  200cc  it has a very small manifold.

i just wonder how much gas would be required to keep an engine that size running?



22350


I really don't  think any one here has got far enough to  really think about   running a motor on just HHO.

A while  back  asked about  running  a motor on just HHO......

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4616.0.html

reply  #2  has a link  to  a  video  that might help you  estimate  what size   you will need .

gary

Offline 22350

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Re: what keeps someone from using natural gas carburetor?
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2008, 07:58:47 AM »
22350


I really don't  think any one here has got far enough to  really think about   running a motor on just HHO.

A while  back  asked about  running  a motor on just HHO......

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4616.0.html

reply  #2  has a link  to  a  video  that might help you  estimate  what size   you will need .

gary

I was hoping that a 200cc single cylinder engine might be a little more attainable.  The youtube video isn't there anymore.

There are some interesting calculations.  I think that Dingel had something with separate production of o and h.

 

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