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Hydrogen energy => Electrolysis of H20 and Hydrogen on demand generation => Topic started by: gazzzwp on May 30, 2008, 08:09:08 PM
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Having seen quite a few videos on 'youtube' which impressively show water rapidly vapourising into HHO I am amazed that the overunity principle has not already been comfortably achieved.
For example looking at the videos made by Ravzz who posts on this board, according to his ammeter, 1.0A was a typical reading and I presume from looking at the circuitry in the video that the voltage is in the order of 12v.
This means that the input power Amps x Volts is extremely low. Yet from looking at the enormous amouts of vapour produced it looks as if the amount of hydrogen given off would power a 2-3kw fire at least.
Am I missing something here - I was thinking of going ahead and building the Lawton circuit next week, to try for myself, however in the meantime any feedback on this issue would be useful. Without a substantial power output the whole exercise would be pointless.
Gazza
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Gazzwp: Ravi was putting that voltage and amperage onto the brushes of an alternator. What the actual output was, he didn't show. Very easy to do. Remember, you are preamping and pulsing the voltage before it goes into the alternator, which is the amplifier. Check out the vids by waterforfuel and how to rebuild an alternator on YouTube. Hope this helps. Voltar
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test, ,just wanted a link to this thread.triffid
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I tried to build the paulo device which was posted on the internet.I was able to use a scope and determined that the one a friend had built was not working properly.I tried to make my own but my fingers were too big to make the tiny connections.So I bought a audio signal generator off of ebay.
I then started doing experiments using the audio signal generator as a power source.As I took the freq up from 1hz to 1100hz ,the resistance of the water cell went up.So I got bubbles but never a huge explosion of bubbles as the paulo device plans promised.As the freq went up the size of the bubbles grew smaller and smaller.It appeared that the volume of gas generated stayed the same.The size of the bubbles would get smaller and smaller as the freq went up.Finally I concluded that a audio signal generator is not the right piece of equipment for this experiment.I work in a major electronics firm and after discussing some of the problems I had with the engineers here,They said I needed a constant voltage power supply,with variable freq controls.As the freq went up the voltage of my generator went down.I never got that constant voltage generator.I used baking soda soln,then learned that the paulo device used only plain water.So I tested again but got the same results.Triffid
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I did find that after a while I got bubbles at the lowest voltage and amp readings I could get on the signal generator.I guess the electrodes were well seasoned by that time.So I concluded that the high freq electrolysis of water is very efficent.I shut the generator off,no bubbles,I turn it on ,I got bubbles..At the lowest settings the knobs would go.Triffid
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In my opinion there is no need to believe all what is told or written.
Also u can see amazing results by plugging your cell into wall. 110 v 60 hz will work like a charm.
I'm into this "overunity" thing. It is interesting and attractive.
On the other hand i want see a results (made by other ppl) to build it up. So far iv seen nothing so convincing!
Im quite good at electronics... so i can easily design circuit with needed output.
But i want to be sure that this thing will work. yea its tricky, coz there are no 100 % guaranty.
By the way it will be very easily to design very universal circuit by using driving and amplifying, by using amplifying there will be big losses... and so on and so on.
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Hi Jokker
We need to talk!
I have just built Dave Lawton's PWM Circuit - completed it today - just waiting for the 12vdc power supply to test the circuit then I will build the cell. I am thinking about using Zelscope - the software that lets you use your soundcard as an oscilloscpe. If you have any experience with this I would be grateful. Basically I need a cheap oscilloscope as I am trying to do this on a low budget. How far have you got with your experiments? Anyway - I will leave it there for now, except to say that in my previous career I did a lot of elecronics work - i am somewhat rusty, so I would appreciate your analysis of Dave Lawtons PWM circuit (without alternator and using bifilar would choke). See pics. Please email me if you want to on gazzzwp@yahoo.co.uk
Gazza
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Here is the other pic
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Believe it or not, the device that is shown in a few videos of Stan's Rotary Pulse Generator (with alternator and tubes) does not have any PWM built into the device. The black box is simply just a variable transformer and a couple of meters, nothing more. The other device with the adjustable gap spacing was the one with the PWM and chokes inside the black box. I have never seen a video of it working but I assume it worked as well as the rotary device. Frequency may still play a role in the way the devices work but I think there is an underlying fundamental that most people are ignoring. Stan kept saying "Voltage Potential" without any current and is not resistive in nature. What circuits have this ability? The only circuit I have seen to date that does this is the Avramenko plug.
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I think he was referring to resonant voltage. Even though the experts claim that series resonance (L-C) is well understood, it is if you think abut it a mysterious thing. I recall some 26 years ago when at college doing a lab experiment on series resonance wondering what a strange phenomena this was. Resonance in mechanical systems is also intriguing - running your finger around a wine glass until it rings - even to the point where the glass becomed fragile and cracks - anything vibrating or resonating at the correct frequency will shatter apparently - Tesla apparently did this to a skyscaper building.
So is it far beyond the bounds of reason that if water molecules resonate, the ,moleculor bonds will fracture to cause a release of the hydrogen and oxygen - perfectly feasible to me but then again I am no scientist - just a curious experimenter who would love to be free from the exploitation of those in power.
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Stan's PWM...
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1162/stanspwmtq6.jpg)
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And Rotary device with no PWM...
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1945/stansrotaryyb5.jpg)
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It late at my place and iv got school tomorrow :-\
This circuit above is guide basic. But idea is not bad.
Im not sure , by using this circuit u can bet increasing amplitude. ???
U can get increasing amplitude by using sawtooth signal, it is very simple, but it got major disadvantages, coz it need to be linked to the gate time circuit. Im pretty sure that it is very hard to understand, so ill build up some sketches tomorrow.
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hey jokker,any idea how much output using the 110v/60hz outlet?I'm really serious.Thanks,Triffid
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Here is what the PWM card connects too...
(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6185/stansvicfw6.jpg)
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HeairBear, is that diagram from one of Stanley's patents?
I tried a tubular cell like his, and it worked great just from a car battery, no fancy circuitry or alternators or PWM, etc. All that stuff might have been a way to regulate the amount of gas made, since PWM is the way to go.
I have a problem with the description in the diagram under the bifillar inductor. That inductor is only a good inductor for the "common mode" current, and since there is none, it's useless as such. It's function seems to be more as a capacitor due to the proximity of the two wires.
EM
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Those diagrams are from Stan's independent study found here... http://www.aquapulser.com/docs/independent.pdf
Good point about the chokes, read the study and you might find answers or it might to confuse you more. It's not easy to read but enlightening. I think Stan's devices are based upon Tesla's single wire power transmission.
Did your tubular cell produce any heat in the water?
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I did not do any temperature tests, and the water seemed to warm up a bit but hard to tell with so much water. I had a 1 gallon plastic jug of water and dropped in a thin stainless tube within a tube capacitor (3 or 5 millimeter spacing, and 20 cm length) and boy was I surprised. Just connecting to a 12 Volt car battery that thing was gushing out so much hydrogen (and maybe oxygen too, not really sure of the reaction but explosive as hell) I'm working with a few other guys on this, as it seems to be the "thing" now a days due to the high price of gas.... I was kind of disillusion a bit since all along I thought Stanley Meyers had produced the effects seen in some videos on youtube simply due to the electronics, but I guess it's just plain old electrolysis. However, I'm still holding out hope that electronics might improve the efficiency somehow....
EM
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From what i've read - understand that more than about 2V per cell is counterproductive. So if you use higher voltages, use enough cells connected in series so they only get 2V each.
I also understand that surface area is the big factor - and also getting the bubbles to release from the plate. This is possibly why pulsing DC works better. But consider ultrasonic vibration, or a small pump.
It would be interesting to experiment with a rotating insulator between the plates, to function as a wiper blade and move the bubbles off the plates.
Also remember that certain metals, such as magnesium, act as a catalyst that causes water to seperate into H & O. For example, a lathe operator must never use a water soluble cutting fluid on magnesium, because it creates too much hydrogen ...
Put it all together, and maybe use the resonant frequency of water - somethings got to happen!
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hey jokker,any idea how much output using the 110v/60hz outlet?I'm really serious.Thanks,Triffid
Ar ya serious ??? heh ?
I guess it depends on you amperage blocking system in your house mainly. But i guess u can get 15 A out easily. So it makes 230V 15A
It will make water boil in seconds.
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thanks for that insight greendoor, off to the hardware store I go :)
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Also ... why not to use a audio out port to generate signal...
it can be amplified easily ... and it is very editable. ???
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@Jokker and all
i am trying this idea of using the soundcard output. its just i'm stuck now on connections. right now i have an old linux box with this little program i found called siggen. pretty neat actually. and also i am using xoscope to as a digital oscilloscope with the mic in on my soundcard.
siggen can be found here: http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/jj/linux/siggen.html
xoscope can be found here: http://xoscope.sourceforge.net/
i plugged in some old headphones and split the wires. and tried to read the voltages but i'm getting nothing. i'm about to connect it to my simple 2 plate setup and plop it in water to see if anything happens. i read some in this doc: http://merlib.org/files/pgfed/D6.pdf
it says at 923Hz is when water goes crazy. when you apply 923Hz to water it creates a pressure of 100 atm? kinda like boiling water. I just find it interested that no one pays attention to that.
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@Jokker and all
i am trying this idea of using the soundcard output. its just i'm stuck now on connections. right now i have an old linux box with this little program i found called siggen. pretty neat actually. and also i am using xoscope to as a digital oscilloscope with the mic in on my soundcard.
siggen can be found here: http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/jj/linux/siggen.html
xoscope can be found here: http://xoscope.sourceforge.net/
i plugged in some old headphones and split the wires. and tried to read the voltages but i'm getting nothing. i'm about to connect it to my simple 2 plate setup and plop it in water to see if anything happens. i read some in this doc: http://merlib.org/files/pgfed/D6.pdf
it says at 923Hz is when water goes crazy. when you apply 923Hz to water it creates a pressure of 100 atm? kinda like boiling water. I just find it interested that no one pays attention to that.
So ur getting it on... I'm looking forward
"Have you tried to loop frequencies, amplitude and signal form...
But also u need to build up a analyzing part, coz as im been told at school that there is no point to learn if u are not understanding stuff ur learning...
It will be very "perfect" if ull find a way to catch the thing u want. And maybe it got different ways to show it out. Increasing voltage or hight hydrogen output... maybe changes in resistance between electrodes.
U will need a system what will notice a change, and do something for ya (finding the right frequency).
Im pretty sure that it is very hard to archive but i guess by this way u will see results. " ( before reading a reply)
But yea im pretty sure that it will be very hard to create something working right, without seeing output. Oscilloscope will help help you much!
By the way what about 923hz ? Have u seen some results ?
Keep it up ::)
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Actually seems pretty attractive idea ::) Cheap ...
It is late atm. ill try to catch it up tomorrow.
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So ur getting it on... I'm looking forward
"Have you tried to loop frequencies, amplitude and signal form...
But also u need to build up a analyzing part, coz as im been told at school that there is no point to learn if u are not understanding stuff ur learning...
It will be very "perfect" if ull find a way to catch the thing u want. And maybe it got different ways to show it out. Increasing voltage or hight hydrogen output... maybe changes in resistance between electrodes.
U will need a system what will notice a change, and do something for ya (finding the right frequency).
Im pretty sure that it is very hard to archive but i guess by this way u will see results. " ( before reading a reply)
But yea im pretty sure that it will be very hard to create something working right, without seeing output. Oscilloscope will help help you much!
By the way what about 923hz ? Have u seen some results ?
Keep it up ::)
uggh i typed this whole thing up and my internet died when i hit post.... so i lost it all. lets see if i can type it all up again alittle shorter. umm
i haven't actually experimented yet. i finally put together an old computer and turned it iinto my testing linux box haha. got the software and all working today. problem i have is i dunno what the voltage is coming from the output of the sound card. my meter reads 0 for some reason. maybe i need an amp or something. what i have is an old pair of headphone wires that i'm gonna connect to 2 electrodes. and i'll plop em into a tank and see what happens. using a square wave at 923Hz. probbably nothing because theres no power from what i see.
about the 923Hz. read up on page 21 of that D6.pdf i gave a link to in my last post. explains almost everything. and lots of other useful info too.
i'll keep ya up to date if anything interesting happens.
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uggh i typed this whole thing up and my internet died when i hit post.... so i lost it all. lets see if i can type it all up again alittle shorter. umm
i haven't actually experimented yet. i finally put together an old computer and turned it iinto my testing linux box haha. got the software and all working today. problem i have is i dunno what the voltage is coming from the output of the sound card. my meter reads 0 for some reason. maybe i need an amp or something. what i have is an old pair of headphone wires that i'm gonna connect to 2 electrodes. and i'll plop em into a tank and see what happens. using a square wave at 923Hz. probbably nothing because theres no power from what i see.
about the 923Hz. read up on page 21 of that D6.pdf i gave a link to in my last post. explains almost everything. and lots of other useful info too.
i'll keep ya up to date if anything interesting happens.
Im too tired to get on with this thing. Finally school ended ::)
So far as i understand u are trying to use PCs as oscilloscope and signal generator ?
I guess sound card is perfect for signal generating coz it is meant to do it. By the way audio out is very variable. voltage should be in V and sound volume is also driven by voltage (signal) but mainly by current.
By using PC sound card as signal generator... you should be aware that after all it is meant to play audio, due it it may have many effects u do not need...
Looking forward ! keep it going ;)
By the way i found something about 923 Hz experiment
http://www.icestuff.com/~energy21/buerger1.htm
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I was trying to do that 923 hz experiment.Me and a friend of mine.He built the circuit but the scope said no signal was coming out of his device.I could never build the timer,too many tiny connections.But once the electrodes were seasoned(a couple of hours)My audio signal generator
produced bubbles at the lowest volt and amp readings the knobs would go.I found out too if you put magnets in the device like so: Magnet(ns)+ electrode Solution (-)electrode Magnet(ns).
Magnets need to attract each other.One near each electrode.Then the reaction went a lot quicker and produced more bubbles than when the magnets were removed.triffid
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The audio card of a PC puts out AC only with very little DC bias (if any). If you use a VOM or DVM you will see something on the AC setting but please note that they are designed for 50~60hz operation. O-scopes are required to see the output reliably. Voltage out will vary from 0~ 5vac. You should use the sound card as a driver for a power transistor which in turn drives the plates.
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The audio card of a PC puts out AC only with very little DC bias (if any). If you use a VOM or DVM you will see something on the AC setting but please note that they are designed for 50~60hz operation. O-scopes are required to see the output reliably. Voltage out will vary from 0~ 5vac. You should use the sound card as a driver for a power transistor which in turn drives the plates.
I wanted to tell the same... that u cant measure sound card signal output by using ordinary multimeter, because... first of all is is signal and is is hight frequency 1. They say that oscilloscope is way more accurate, i really dunno why.
But using audio output to switch transistor is not good idea at all... yea it will be much more effective but is is again whole idea. To separate H and O from H2O by using low current. If u are up for it then u should use ordinary final audio amplifier, it will be good if it is linear. But i really dunno about tease coils... i guess they are for voltage amplification.
Sometimes when ill get some time ill try to put something together. :)
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I was trying to do that 923 hz experiment.Me and a friend of mine.He built the circuit but the scope said no signal was coming out of his device.I could never build the timer,too many tiny connections.But once the electrodes were seasoned(a couple of hours)My audio signal generator
produced bubbles at the lowest volt and amp readings the knobs would go.I found out too if you put magnets in the device like so: Magnet(ns)+ electrode Solution (-)electrode Magnet(ns).
Magnets need to attract each other.One near each electrode.Then the reaction went a lot quicker and produced more bubbles than when the magnets were removed.triffid
interesting thing about magnets. btw did you use distilled water, and how did you hook up your audio signal to your terminals?
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For My experiments I used baking soda solution(I didn't know any better),When I knew better I used tap water,not distilled.Hey I just had a crazy thought .Why not use the audio output from the radio or cd player already in the car?That would mean different stations would give you different outputs of h and o.I really had not thought of this before(the car radio audio output that is).Maybe this could be a breakthrough?Triffid
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Sorry,I did not answer all of your question .I used wires with clips from radio shack to hook the pos to one electrode and then the neg to the other electrode.I bought a bag of them (6-10) for about $5.00 one time and still had them around.I think they cost more now?Triffid
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weird. i'm hooking it up the same way and not getting any results. z.monkey told me to use distilled water because tap water is conductive. and that i'm using such a small current the water will just conduct the current and i'll see no results. how big was your current and voltages if i may ask? i don't even really know how to measure voltages and currents of an audio signal....
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Did any of you try to burn any of the gas bubbles that you were creating? If you are using either ac or even high frequency pulsed dc you will boil the water very rapidly and the bubbles you see are the result of boiling, not H2 and O2. The water will heat at the surface of the electrodes first. It is a really cool effect if you just plug nearly pure water into a wall socket (with 2 electrodes in it). To split water using high frequency you need frequencies in the range that would be analogous to very hard UV radiation. Takes a lot of power to produce those.
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Atfter a while my electrodes were seasoned?I remember it didn't take very long.After a while I got fine bubbles at the lowest possible settings on the knobs.I did work on this for months.I used a less than $20.00 voltmeter from radio shack.I'm hopeing it didn't take months to season the electrodes.In most cases I've read about the longest it took to season the electrodes was a day or so.But there usually is a period of time to break the electrodes in .Once the bubbles started coming it didn't take much power at all.My advice,leave it running and watch it! Triffid
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By the way what about 923hz ? Have u seen some results ?
John Worrell Keely got results in the 19th century with 42.8Khz, a frequency
used by Bob Boyce in his electrolysers (or rather, water fracturers). But
Puharich, I believe used 600hz.
Paul.
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I always assumed I was getting H and O because I could tell that the bubbles were twice at the negative electrode as compared to what the other electrode had.But I never tried to burn them.But I am very sure they were not steam bubbles because the solution always stayed cool.I could not get the explosion of gases that the Paulo device had claimed.So he ended up looking a little bit misleading.I heard of a couple of other people on the net who tried this experiment.I could never build his device as revealed in the original papers.None of us got the results he claimed to have.Never the less I did learn the magnet trick and that high freq electrolysis may be the way to go.Triffid
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Did any of you try to burn any of the gas bubbles that you were creating? If you are using either ac or even high frequency pulsed dc you will boil the water very rapidly and the bubbles you see are the result of boiling, not H2 and O2. The water will heat at the surface of the electrodes first. It is a really cool effect if you just plug nearly pure water into a wall socket (with 2 electrodes in it). To split water using high frequency you need frequencies in the range that would be analogous to very hard UV radiation. Takes a lot of power to produce those.
By shaking water u will no create bubbles on the surface. ::)
But yea by heating water(very hight temperatures) u can separate H2O.
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You can tear water apart by heating it to three thousand degrees F.Just about every chemistry text has that piece of info in it.Some say you can do it at just a thousand degrees F and a sonic vibration.
During war world two when wood gas was used to power cars and trucks.A small stream of water shot inside the furnance improved the quality of gas.Wood gas is mostly carbon monoxide.Google up "wood gas " for some interesting reading.Triffid
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RE: woodgas
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4905.msg104078.html#msg104078
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A heli-arc welder has a high frequency output which is in the 8MHz range. The voltage output is only about 20 to 70 volts, but the arc can jump a considerable distance so that it is not necessary to scratch the electrode to the work surface to initiate an arc when welding. I'm not sure, but I think these welders use a sort of tesla coil technology to generate the high frequencies. I know they have a coil, a capacitor and an air gap (.018 inches).
I will try connecting an automotive spark plug with the power level turned all the way down and see what kind of continous spark I get. Then I would like to try it under water and in a mist to see if I get an explosion.
Has anyone tried using a heli-arc welder as a power source for any of these experiments? That is, either to generate HHO or water direct into the engine.
Richard
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I found out a little more about that magnet trick.It seems that hydrogen is replled by a magnetic field but oxygen is attracted to a magnetic field.So the magnet wants to tear up the water molecule apart anyway (all by itself to a certain degree anyway).In my experiments I used an electric current assisted by magnets.When I used magnets by themselves I got no bubbles.This came from an article on chemistry that I found on the web.Triffid
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I am trying to do something with this new piece of info.Just knowing that a magnetic field wants to tear water apart brings to my mind new ideas.A device could be put together that tears water apart without electricity.Just uses magnets but I haven't done this.Need to learn about magnetic flux I guess.Triffid
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think about how a plate cell has a magnetic field in the water, and how magnets do also, when your lining up your fields you let the small amount of current that normally couldnt do work, do work because of the greater field. hypotheticly speaking lets say hho production needs a value of 3. and you have 1 from electricity and 2 from perm magnets. the sronger the field, the faster the atoms can go between electodes, the bubbles travel along the magnetic field somewhat. ive never experimented with magnets in an electrolyser, but ive often thought about them. specificly how eletromagnets can lift a car when a regular magnet of the same size cant. why ive thought of magnets in a hho cell is when you look up at the stars what is there? a whole lot of ou. maybe not over unity but definately "even unity"! the earth goes around the sun just fine on magnetic fields. why cant other shit... so what do yall think, an electo-magnet-electrolyser...
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Hi to all !!
I have started to make a replica of what Meyer did.
I Think this I my 5th test?.
What I have done so far:
I have created 9 Pipe, 360mm tall and 25mm wide, they have an inner pipe
with 1 mm space between them.
I also have made the control box, there are no secret about the box, it just create
Pulls in a lot of different freq. And I have tested the box, with the scope..
In my first test I was using an Atmel AVR Mega8 one chip computer, but it had some
Problem to generate freq above 1khz, so for now, I?m using the ?box?..
Made some test with the pipe:
If I connect 12 volt to one pipe just a sec, my Volt meter show 7 Volt and my Amp 16
(Max amp for my transformer = 9) when I then remove the power, my Volt meter
Quickly went down to 4 volt, and a little slower down to 2.4 volt, but from there, very slow..
So, the pipe works fine as a capacitor?
I think this is why the production doesn?t stop immediate when I remove the power.
The problem I have is to find that ?resonance? to do that I must have something to
Measure? like the volt, amp.. something..
Some idea ? what shall I look fore ?
In the prev. test I?ve done, Iv used 12v DC pulsed with box, when I measured the volt on the pipe
It only got 3.9 volt, but I got quite a lot of hydrogen (test with a lighter big bada booom.lol)
Some thinking:
If we think of this like a stereo with a mic, if a start the mic close to the speaker, I?ve got a
Mmm don?t know the word in English, but I think you know what I meant..
If I have quite small volume on the stereo, I must put the mic quite close to the speaker to get
The ?resonance? BUT.. if I start with a strong volume, I immediate got a big ?resonance?
Then I can slowly turn down the volume, and still maintain the ?resonance? ..
If you try this at home, you will see that you must turn down the volume almost to nothing
To break the ?resonance??
Regards Christer / Sweden
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why not to use a audio out port to generate signal
Somebody find out if "AC/DC" produces as much gas as "Air Supply"
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Why not to use ... ?
First thing about signal from audio out is... low power (laptop) even for transistor driving current, other thing is that u need to be good a computers ... there are very few programs and these do not work well. Programming is way complicated yea ?
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Ok.. have redesign the control box, and put in a opto to separate the lo volt from my 260v DC
I have put a INPUT RECTIFIER DIODE right to my 240v ac and then got 260v DC, 10 Amp. from that to a BIG capacitor
to get some nicer volt?s. Have 2 new Transistors (MJE13009) 400v and 12 Amp.
So, the box will control the opto?s and they the power transistor, one for the pulsing
And one for the 0 to 260v control to adjust the effect
Do anyone now a easy way to maintain
the Volt, but reduce the amp ???
New test..
Want to see if I?m right with the ?sound? theory, that is, if we put in a lot of volt and amps
Then we got the ?vibrating? effect, and when we have it, THEN we can slowly turn down the
Volt and amp, with the same production rate, ore hopefully just something that is possible to measure with the volt meter?
Regards Christer / Sweden
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HeairBear: Big thanks for the Meyer drawings, haven't seen them before !!
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I don't remember where I saw it, but a 250Volt DC pulse 1 microsecond long with a 7 millisecond delay between pulses will produce far more HHO than an equivalent amount of continous DC power. A fast rise time may or may not be important. I have not tried this.
For a precision signal source (I don't think it will give the above mentioned waveform) go to www.educate-yourself.org and look for the NC tone generator. 30 days free and no complicated programing.
Richard
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Need some help....
Have i understand this right ? have read about it on wikipedia, but cant say I'm so much smarter lol
A Transistor can be turn on or off, just to control the gate
A Thyristor, when you enable that, it cant be turn off before the volt that run through the Thyristor is Alamos zero, right ? so using that with DC is not possible ?
A Triac ? Same ? or can this be turned off when i want ? or is it same as the Thyristor ?..
Regards Christer / Sweden
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Transistor is like a switch .. switch what is controlled from base or gate ( open & close)
But thyristor is not a switch or amplification element coz it will close when too much current passes ....
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Thought you need DC to do that?
Unless of course you use a Aluminium and one steel electrode and Baking soda or other catalysts thus forming a Half way rectifier.
In my opinion there is no need to believe all what is told or written.
Also u can see amazing results by plugging your cell into wall. 110 v 60 hz will work like a charm.
I'm into this "overunity" thing. It is interesting and attractive.
On the other hand i want see a results (made by other ppl) to build it up. So far iv seen nothing so convincing!
Im quite good at electronics... so i can easily design circuit with needed output.
But i want to be sure that this thing will work. yea its tricky, coz there are no 100 % guaranty.
By the way it will be very easily to design very universal circuit by using driving and amplifying, by using amplifying there will be big losses... and so on and so on.
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I read somewhere and saw a Video on U-tube where someone claimed to produce hydrogen and oxygen seperation by simply submersing a strong magnet into a water- vinegar solution.
I tried that and left the neo. magnet in that solution for a day and nothing happened.
However I saw in a Video that the north pole will push the bubbles (don't know whether Hydrogen or Oxygen ) to the right and when you reversed the mag.Polarity the stream of bubbles where pushed to the left or vice versa.
It could also have been that the oxygen was pushed to the right by the south pole and the Hydrogen pushed to the left by the North Pole or vice versa.
The answer needs to be found. I am only a electronic tech, this is above and beyond my knowledge.
I found out a little more about that magnet trick.It seems that hydrogen is replled by a magnetic field but oxygen is attracted to a magnetic field.So the magnet wants to tear up the water molecule apart anyway (all by itself to a certain degree anyway).In my experiments I used an electric current assisted by magnets.When I used magnets by themselves I got no bubbles.This came from an article on chemistry that I found on the web.Triffid
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I have an old Soundblaster Live! card in my aging lab PC. It has a front panel headphone jack that puts out very low power even at full volume. but it has a 1/4" input (just right for a guitar cable)
I have an RMS DMM that measured the frequency of a signal (program set for 923Hz and meter reads 925Hz)
not bad for a free signal generator! my limit is 20KHz due to the soundcard.
I would like to try testing this in a small plastic container (like a tic-tac box) and check it with no magnets, then another test with these 1"x1"x1/2" N50 NdFeB blocks I just got...
my meter measures freq to 2Mhz max so for now that's the limit of my experimentation....
making sure I got this right, frequencies of interest so far (that I am currently capable of working with)
923Hz
600Hz
software lets you choose from square wave, sine wave, triangle wave... should be set for square waves? if so, what duty cycle? (default is 50% max is 99%)
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For some good information on thyristors go to http://en.wikipedia.org
I think you will find what you need there. Just put thyristor in the search box.
Richard
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OK. i have installed the new transistor, this one can drive 400v and 12 amp, i needed to modify the control box a little to, removed the N MOS, and installed a OPTO to drive the new
transistor.
I don't plan to use all the power (240v and 10 Amp) more than some sec, just to let me messure the volt and AMP's on the pipe, in different freq. its a little scary to use 240v and water brrrr
The purpose of this experiment is to test if i can find some fluctuation in the volt in different freq. then try to lover the volt...
Like hunting av mosquito with a shootgun... hopfully i hit something...
Regards Christer / Sweden
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Hi TMGhost,
Without a heatsink on your transistor and running 10 amps (you didn't say the expected voltage drop across the transistor), I'm betting that baby will cook before you can get a stable reading on a digital multimeter.
Good luck and please take care!
Richard
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About transistor ... It is in switching mod so u can add 50 % more power, coz it working only "open time" time when current passes junction. My suggestion is to test with smaller current first. If u will exceed maximum power first thing u will notice is momentary temperature increment and if u will keep it going then it will just burn inside. So test with lower currents first for longer period of time, you may want to know temperature inside is much higher so u need to run it for longer time to notice changes. depends on material .. so far as i know 300 c is max but im not sure.
BTW how u made inductor ? how many turns and so on. Maybe you can gimme some tutorial sites ? Or you just used oscilloscope by "try & error" technique. So far as i know induction element .. as smoothing element depends on voltage and current. so if u will change input u will get changes in output.
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Ok.. Time for a restart ! >:(
I Hate Timer 555 ! When i test it with the scope it does some pulses, but not that one i want !
New setup.
I Will build this pulls engine around a Atmel AVR Mega 88 chip, and use that to drive a 4/16 chip.
the 4/16 chip will drive 16 resistors, to create 16 volt steps.
I have a test setup on my test plate, IL post it soon. I Using Bascom AVR compiler, i can post the code i some one what's it..
Regads Christer / Sweden
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When looking At Meyers drawings, i find a step-up transformer.
is this right ? :
if i have 100 rounds on the primary coil and 100 Round on the secondary coil i have a 1 to 1 Transformer ?
And if i have 100 turn on the primary coil and 200 turn on the second coil do i have a step-up transformer that double the volt ?
Meyer used 100 Turn on the Primary coil and 500 turn At the secondary, but some sat he used 12v and some that hi used 26v... that quite a difference...
in hes Primary setup he used 110v ( a strange volt, but iv heard that some 'older' contry use that ;D ) then he went down to 12v, but used a Step-up transformer to go to 130v (26*5 = 130v)
so... I think he was using 26v in hes test,and transformed it up to hes usual volts 110.. right ????
And yes, it not possible to use my new fine transistor, on 220v without a heatsink...
Some strange info.. I was speaking of 260v before, that was my capacitor that make the over voltage, isn't that we are looking for in the pipes... when i remove the capacitor i have 220 v not 320v...
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i've recently strted playing with electrolosis. I'm sending 12v pulsed via 555 timer switching power transistor. First think I noticed is the bubbles seem to form mostly on the negative side. I then decided to use a stainless steel flat bottom bowl. I used a S.S. cotter pin as the anode, just for ease of controlability i.e. position and angle. The most apparent observation is that the bubbles formed on the bottom more than anywhere else, regardless of how close i put the pin to the side. Secondly if I placed a strong magnet under the container the bubbles would swirl, counter clockwise or clockwise depending on which pole I (aimed) the pin at. Food for thought!
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When looking At Meyers drawings, i find a step-up transformer.
is this right ? :
Yes, which drawing?
if i have 100 rounds on the primary coil and 100 Round on the secondary coil i have a 1 to 1 Transformer ?
Yes
And if i have 100 turn on the primary coil and 200 turn on the second coil do i have a step-up transformer that double the volt ?
Yes, and the current will be cut in half also.
Meyer used 100 Turn on the Primary coil and 500 turn At the secondary, but some sat he used 12v and some that hi used 26v... that quite a difference...
in hes Primary setup he used 110v ( a strange volt, but iv heard that some 'older' contry use that ;D ) then he went down to 12v, but used a Step-up transformer to go to 130v (26*5 = 130v)
so... I think he was using 26v in hes test,and transformed it up to hes usual volts 110.. right ????
He did it many different ways. Which one are you referring to? In the USA we use 110V and 220V AC for just about everything residential. The transformer in the pictures I posted is a variable transformer. 0 - 110V AC. Stan had shown a few demonstrations with 5V and 2A for the input power.
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Is coil working as a transformer ? It is like 2 inductors are connected in series with cell (as capacitor) in middle.
It some kind .. hmm i dunno, but i can say for sure that the energy is not fully consumed by cell, part of it is going to coil 2.
Also .. u may want to know that the coil what is winded as it is is far not linear and the ratio is also not 100 % accurate.
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HeairBear: When he used 5v do you know if i used a step-up transformer then ?
When i connect a rectifying diode to my 220v AC 50 Hz, I've got 220v DC 100 Hz. If i then connected a capacitor 0.10uF 1200 volt, I've got 318v DC
if i double the freq. to 200Hz do i got more volt then ?
Regards Christer / Sweden
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Increasing the frequency does not increase voltage. Yes, there is always a transformer or alternator to step-up the voltage. The chokes act somewhat differently than the transformer but are linked to the entire secondary circuit. Since Stan has many different models, please specify which model you are referring to. As you can see in the previous posts, Stan's Rotary Generator did not use any special electronics, such as, a PWM, Chokes, or anything other than a motor,alternator, rectifier, variable transformer, and some diodes.
Sorry, I have to run....
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OK... Thanks !! you saved some testing times...
Then i only have one more question... (For now.lol)
When i read Myers notes, a lot of the are about the freq, is dependent about the gap betwen the pipes, and (i think) the Length and width of the pipe...
Do you know how to calculate the pulsing freq ?
And a lot of people talking about pullsing, but this must be wrong, when i look at the notes from Meyer, he used a 10 point step up voltage then, a small pause and then a new set of 10 step up square pulses, and those pulses newer got to zero volt..
Regards Christer / Sweden
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I used a S.S. cotter pin as the anode, just for ease of controlability i.e. position and angle. The most apparent observation is that the bubbles formed on the bottom more than anywhere else, regardless of how close i put the pin to the side.
LinearFashion,
This is likely due to the field created and the reaction of voltage leakage in any setup. The voltage wants to leave the "sharp" area of the electrode first. This is my understanding anyway.
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Urgent
The PWM circuit can produce the HHO gas. In the PWM circuit, there have integrator circuit. May anyone or who knows can tell me the purpose of integrator in this circuit.
thanks
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Believe it or not, the device that is shown in a few videos of Stan's Rotary Pulse Generator (with alternator and tubes) does not have any PWM built into the device. The black box is simply just a variable transformer and a couple of meters, nothing more. The other device with the adjustable gap spacing was the one with the PWM and chokes inside the black box. I have never seen a video of it working but I assume it worked as well as the rotary device. Frequency may still play a role in the way the devices work but I think there is an underlying fundamental that most people are ignoring. Stan kept saying "Voltage Potential" without any current and is not resistive in nature. What circuits have this ability? The only circuit I have seen to date that does this is the Avramenko plug.
@HeairBear
He had the alternator in several videos and even in the back of the dune buggy so there is something significant there. I am sad to see every one who starts on this project thinks a couple of 555's and "HHO" pours out!
The trouble is most people want to build a circuit or copy one without knowing what is going on first.
I admit that I do not know either but don't believe a lot of the people who theorize either.
I guess Meyers first thoughts ( after praying of course) were how can I get water to break up into hydrogen and oxygen other than the convensional electrolysis? At this point he does not know anything about overunity of the processs. He new directly subjecting water to electric current would not be the approach but subjecting the water to high voltage would be the key. how do you go about what I call electrodeless electrolysis?
High voltage can penetrate water molecule when there is no electron flow.
Another element that can penetrate water is magnetism
and lastly, another thing that can penetrate water is light.
I believe Meyer employed all 3 in the end.
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Can someone please send me a circuit diagram for a working Hydrogen Generator.
What frequency is best for splitting/fracturing water ?
Has anyone seen the new stuff coming from Aquatune www.aquatune.com (http://www.aquatune.com)
What about Tesla and Toyota making electric cars with Hydrogen Fuel Cells ?
Cheers
Richard