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Author Topic: Pushing it!  (Read 8869 times)

broli

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Pushing it!
« on: May 26, 2008, 05:31:23 PM »
Seeing as though pushing something around requires a lot less work than bringing it to a higher potential I thought of an idea.

http://broli.dommel.be/slidewheel.avi

Basiclly the video shows the rods beinging pushed at exactly the right moment to disbalance the wheel. The piston IS driven by a motor, but my logic tells me that I can get more power out of the bigger wheel than I need to drive the piston. Two questions arise. Also do note that weels can be used to easy the friction.

1) Do I indeed get more power out of the bigger wheel than I need to drive the small one?
2) At second thought there is no second question. It had to do with the synchronization but that shouldn't be a problem.
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AB Hammer

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Re: Pushing it!
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2008, 07:38:44 PM »
@broli

 Interesting concept. Timing to keep from jamming might be a problem. But you don't need it to run a gravity wheel, even though it looks like it could work as an OU design but you need it to shift quicker to get enough energy built up. Heck I just had my thumb nail nearly tor off from my wheel, and I couldn't be happier. Another prime mover design.
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edelind

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Re: Pushing it!
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2008, 08:31:58 PM »
It may be OU if you use proper rollers. Anyway, the synchronization could be a real problem in your design, as the speed will most probably increase. Maybe it's easier to use magnets and electromagnets which will synchronize electronically (magnets on bars' end and electromagnets instead of the piston). Or, to avoid the vertical friction from the bars and the push piston, to use magnet balls, pushed toward the pistons by an electromagnet.

Just some thoughts...
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Alexioco

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Re: Pushing it!
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2008, 10:20:54 PM »
Quote from: broli on May 26, 2008, 05:31:23 PM
Seeing as though pushing something around requires a lot less work than bringing it to a higher potential I thought of an idea.

http://broli.dommel.be/slidewheel.avi

Basiclly the video shows the rods beinging pushed at exactly the right moment to disbalance the wheel. The piston IS driven by a motor, but my logic tells me that I can get more power out of the bigger wheel than I need to drive the piston. Two questions arise. Also do note that weels can be used to easy the friction.

1) Do I indeed get more power out of the bigger wheel than I need to drive the small one?
2) At second thought there is no second question. It had to do with the synchronization but that shouldn't be a problem.

Nice thinking Broli, I enjoyed watching that, quite interesting, maybe the wheel and piston could work with each other, perpetuating itself...
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broli

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Re: Pushing it!
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2008, 01:39:06 PM »
Oke instead of starting a new thread I decided to just expand on this one with a different idea on almost the same model.

http://broli.dommel.be/slidewheelV2.avi


The idea would work as following. At 12 oclock a stretched locked spring attaches to the rod and then gets unlocked. This will cause the spring to retract pulling the rod with it till almost 10 oclock. Then a lock sets in and afterwards the rod gets deaatched using maybe another smaller spring( or again a synchronization method  :P). The spring returns to it's horizontal position and the process repeats.

Of course friction can be the evil doer, there's a 50% chance of succes since in the good case the wheel will start to accelerate and you're home free. or fricton will not make the spring pass the locking postion in order to repeat the process.
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LittleHelper

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Re: Pushing it!
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2008, 01:56:07 PM »
Synchronyze the two wheels with a pulley, and get a pole to shift everytime the little wheel pushes.

Just an idea, I know there has to low friction all around.
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LittleHelper

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Re: Pushing it!
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2008, 01:59:51 PM »
Besides, if you use magnets, its already in the works: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4540.960.html
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broli

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Re: Pushing it!
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2008, 02:51:55 PM »
You can use magents but this might be then a better idea...

(http://broli.dommel.be/slidewheelV2.PNG)

After a while the wheel even will start to accelerate, this will in turn cause more current to be generated and thus having to give an even smaller current ratio to the electromagnets...not only that but even centrifugal forces will start aiding after a while
« Last Edit: May 27, 2008, 03:39:18 PM by broli »
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Alexioco

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Re: Pushing it!
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2008, 04:10:55 PM »
Problem with the spring idea is that you now need a force to pull the spring back down and connect with the rod so it can pull the rod up again...
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Bulbz

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Re: Pushing it!
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2008, 05:44:45 PM »
Quote from: broli on May 26, 2008, 05:31:23 PM
Seeing as though pushing something around requires a lot less work than bringing it to a higher potential I thought of an idea.

http://broli.dommel.be/slidewheel.avi

Basiclly the video shows the rods beinging pushed at exactly the right moment to disbalance the wheel. The piston IS driven by a motor, but my logic tells me that I can get more power out of the bigger wheel than I need to drive the piston. Two questions arise. Also do note that weels can be used to easy the friction.

1) Do I indeed get more power out of the bigger wheel than I need to drive the small one?
2) At second thought there is no second question. It had to do with the synchronization but that shouldn't be a problem.


Very interesting, somthing may even materialise from this. It looks like a method of controlling a large energy with a smaller energy. Well done mate  ;).

It may be a good idea to stck permanent magnets on the ends of the sliders, and replace the piston with a timed-pulsed electromagnet so that it can pull the sliders out of balance.
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broli

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Re: Pushing it!
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2008, 06:46:10 PM »
Quote from: Bulbz on May 27, 2008, 05:44:45 PM

Very interesting, somthing may even materialise from this. It looks like a method of controlling a large energy with a smaller energy. Well done mate  ;).

It may be a good idea to stck permanent magnets on the ends of the sliders, and replace the piston with a timed-pulsed electromagnet so that it can pull the sliders out of balance.

That may be another idea. This idea sounds so simple that it ought to have been tried already  ;D. I should ask one of those archer guys to try such a thing since their system is exactly this one but using another moving method.
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broli

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Re: Pushing it!
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2008, 08:57:13 PM »
So that brings us down to two desings. I think if I ask nicely, one of archers machine builders could try this out. While the second one is easier to hack in their build, the first one seems imo more promising.

(http://broli.dommel.be/slidewheelV2V3.JPG)
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broli

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Re: Pushing it!
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2008, 12:44:38 PM »
I just noticed there's not much uniqueness about this design after some research. Pulsing coils and using perm magnets seems to be all over the place. Bedini and many others are doing just that.
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xnonix

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Re: Pushing it!
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2008, 01:52:46 PM »
Hi Broli,
Congrats you have found Overunity!

Ok, i'm a bit excited if this is real, i'll explain you.

I have been playing with your concept in wm2d to prove overunity:
- First I have put a pin friction on the generator wheel where we can measure the power dissipated (generated) by the generator wheel.
- Second I have put a rigid joint that only activates when the generator wheel wants to go backwards. Just like the rear axis of a bike.
- Third I have sinchronized the motor wheel and piston to probe that 1 motor wheel loop make 1/2 generator wheel loop (This wheel is way to heavy compared with motor wheel).

I have put some measurements data:
The power generated is much more bigger than the power in the motor.
The COP scalability is dependant on the lever weight. In my example COP is about 25. Air is on. And pin frictions are on.

Easy to implement with bikes parts.

Below mandatory picture and model.

xnonix
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 02:52:39 PM by xnonix »
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broli

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Re: Pushing it!
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2008, 02:05:22 PM »
Wow you sure made a very clean setup there. This is very intresting indeed. You also got me excitedt meight. I'm curious as to how you measure the power on both wheels?
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