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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: gast on September 07, 2005, 12:06:35 AM

Title: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: gast on September 07, 2005, 12:06:35 AM
Hi,

this evening I made an interessting experiement with an sqaure wave generator, an self-wounded 1:1 transformer on an toroid core, some diodes and two lamps. And of course an magnet. (steven marks keeps my mind busy ;-) )

The primary side of the transformer is powerd by the sqare wave generator, at the secondary side of the transformer I connected an 6V lamp. On the primary side of the transformer I connected a second 6V lamp but using an diode, so that the lamp is powerd only by the kickback from the primary coil!

Then I swiched on the corcuit and tuned the the genrator to a level, the lamps light middle-bright. Now I took the magnet and near(? german: ann?hern) it slowly to the toroid core (the exact point of the core is important, also the winding, I think).
The result: Depending on wich side of the magnet I near to the core the following things happend:

1) The light of the normal powerd lamp becomes a bit brighter, the other kickback powerd lamp a bit darker, but the power consumption of the circuit increases rapidly.

2) Using the other sinde of the magnet. The light of the kickback powerd lamp becomes a bit brighter, the other normal powerd lamp a bit darker, but the power consumption of the circuit **decreases** by more than 1/3.

Hmm, I think I have to make a draft of the circuit the next days.

Sorry for the syntax-errors... its late and I my cheap internet connection ends in a few minutes...

Regards, Gast
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: hartiberlin on September 07, 2005, 12:32:02 AM
Hmm,you probably change the working point of the transformer on the BH curve,
so what you do it impedance matching somehow...

Only via real numbers( power measurements) more can be said, which is complicated,
cause it is AC and the phase angle must be measured in and also the kickback energy
in the Back EMF spike...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: gast on September 07, 2005, 09:55:26 AM
Hmmm, unfortunately I still doesn't own an scilloscope or any other hightech equipment.

I measured the amperes direct on the battery in DC mode. But even if the circuit sucks pulsed DC and the voltmeter does't show right values, the measurement-error should be the same in both configurations, because I doesn't changed the frequency of the generator. If I find the time, I post a draft this evening.

What is about the following way for power-comparing (okay it's more an estimation)?
I would connect a big buffer capacitor to the whole circuit and measure voltage and ampere (DC) for the complete circuit including the lamps. I will do this using the magnet and notice the brightness of the lamps (over my big thumb ;-)).
After this I would measure voltage and ampere without the magnet but adjusting the frequency to a level where the lamps have (subjective) the same brightnes like in the other configuration. Then I have to compare the values. Are the values compareable this way?

Regards, Gast

edit:
PS: What's about using a combination of a rectifier and a load instead of the lamps? On the load I can measure the DC voltage and ampere. So I have not to handle with AC and phase angles.
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: gast on September 08, 2005, 09:56:47 AM
Stefan,

now I made some pictures and videos from mysetup.

Please, would you have a closer look at it to decide if it is only a imedance modification or not.

You'll find a shematic/draft of the circuit and some pictures of the setup and the toroid ferrite-core.
Further I recorded two videos showing the effect. The first video is made with room light switched on, the second one with room light switched off for a better recognizing of the change of brightness by the kickback lamp.

Some remarks:
- Please notice that the brightness of the kickbacklamp (the upper lamp in the video) becomes much more brighter than the normal lamp becomes darker. The ampere-consumption (DC-mode) decrases nearly to 1/2.
- Without magnet I never get the kickback lamp so bright, regardless of the frequency I tune on the generator. Okay, If i tune up and down, then there is a small point where the lamps are really bright. But this point is NOT stable. Its more like an short flash during frequency tuning.
- The wooden stick and the lighter on/besides the core is only used to hold the correct distance between magnet and core. The neodym-magnet is much to strong! If it snap direct at the core (*click*) the lamps goes off and the ampere-consumption increase rapidly. The best distance for this magnet is about 1,5 cm from the core. If I move the magnet more near than 1,5cm the ampere consumption begin again to rise.
- The multimeter showes ampere in DC mode. There is no buffer capacitor. So depending on the condition of the battery the multimeter measured pulsed DC.
- the winding orientation of the priimary and secondary coil is not equal, it is oppositional (the coil-orientation painted in the draft is wrong).

I would be happy about some suggestions.

Bye, Gast

PS: I get several errors during sending this message incl. the 9MB zip-file. I send the attachment via mail to stefan.

edit: I'll try to attach only the pictures, maybe I will get no errors this time... (videos are allready sent to Stefan)

PS2: Today [08. Sept 2005] I modified the setup a bit for another test: I changed the toroid core and the normal powerd lamp against one normal coil on a ferrit rod (1,6 mH) - no normal lamp this time. The kickback powerd lamp lights up after switching on the circuit. And I was also able to incrase the brightness of the lamp by moving the magnet near to the ferrit rod. But independent of the polarization of the magnet the lamp became always a bit brighter BUT the ampere consumption arised in every case! I never was able to decrase the ampere consumption with this configuration (unlike to the setup with the toroid core and the 2 coils on it).

Is this remarkable?
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: hartiberlin on September 14, 2005, 08:34:47 AM
Here is video 1 fromMarkus, converted to a smaller MPEG4- Microsoft V2 codec
which is more compatiblewith older systems and also 1/4 the size.
As there was no speech on the audio, I deleted the  audio part as it contained
only noise... Better Markus next timeyou speak to the video, what you are doing..
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: hartiberlin on September 14, 2005, 08:39:30 AM
here is video 2
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on September 14, 2005, 09:31:03 AM
Here is video 1 fromMarkus, converted to a smaller MPEG4- Microsoft V2 codec
which is more compatiblewith older systems and also 1/4 the size.
As there was no speech on the audio, I deleted the  audio part as it contained
only noise...

Stefan, thank you for converting the video.

Better Markus next timeyou speak to the video, what you are doing..

Yes, you'r right. But hmmm, I have to train my rusty spoken English first ;-)
What you see in the video is the procedure I descibed in my first post.

Sefan, I would hear gladly your opinion, now after you saw the video.  Is it only change of the impedance of the core or another effect?
Remark: If I use a lamp instead of the digital multimeter for measuring the ampere consumption from battery, then I can see the consumption drops (lamp becomes darker). Even if the values shown by the DMM are wrong, the tendency is right (decreasing consumption, but at the same time a brighter kickback-lamp).

Thank you for your estimation.

Regards, Markus (formerly known as 'Gast', I changed my account name)

PS: In the video: the upper lamp is the kickback powerd lamp, the lamp at the bottom of the screen is the normal powerd lamp (see diagram in my pictures)
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: hartiberlin on September 14, 2005, 10:14:39 AM
Hi Markus,
please draw the circuit diagramm and post it here.
Otherwise it is hard to say, what is going on there.
Looks interesting, but could be impedance matching or different
BH-working point.
Depends on the used circuit !

Please post it.
Thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: Kator01 on September 14, 2005, 11:00:38 PM
Folks,

Info missing about what type of iron-core is used in this experiment. There are hunderts of different types. Was it used
in dc-to-dc-step-up(down) converter ( 35 Khz-Range ) ?
You need a oszilloskope otherwise you waste your time ( and ours although.

Regards
Kator
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on September 14, 2005, 11:36:07 PM
Kator,

I got this core(s) from ebay. But unfortunately without any data about it.
A private person sold some of this cores. It looks like ferrite, but who knows it for sure...?

Sorry, so I can't give you any informations about the core (except the dimensions of the core)

btw: I repeated the experiement with a similar core but not with 42 turns of tesla wire on each side but with ca. 100 turns. And the effect was less significant with this coil.

The next days I post the exact circuit diagram... not today, it was a hard, long day. :-/
And if I get back my other multimeter from repair, I can give you exact informations about the frequency at least.

And yes, I know that I need an oscilloscope. :-)  But I have to earn some extra money first. :-(
(any suggestions for a special exemplar?)

Regards, Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on September 16, 2005, 02:20:54 PM
Here is the diagram of the circuit.

Sorry, no infos about the core. But it is wounded with 42 turns of tesla wire each side.
This (http://cgi.ebay.de/Ferrit-Ringkerne-8-Stueck_W0QQitemZ5808842489QQcategoryZ27747QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) are "my" ferrit cores, not exactly this cores, but its the same seller and the same cores.

Bye, Markus


edit:
Sorry, there were two mistakes in the diagramm.

Here is the correct circuit diagram

(changes: freq. poti is 100K instead of 10K and the MOS FET is connected between + 9V and the load, not between ground and the load)

Bye Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: hartiberlin on September 16, 2005, 05:45:46 PM
Hi Markus, thanks for the circuit diagramm.
Well without scopeshots one really could not tell much,
what is going on in the circuit.
Can you make some scopeshots and post them ?

Maybe you also just only alter the duty cycle of the frequency
generator, cause you have a 1 KOhm resistor in the
power supply line for it and there might be still some coupling
via the small diameter ground lines...

Without scope shots one could really not tell, what isgoing on there...
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on September 16, 2005, 06:01:36 PM
...Well without scopeshots one really could not tell much,
what is going on in the circuit.
Can you make some scopeshots and post them ?...

Well, then we have to wait until I own a scope (I am low on money) or someone who own a scope is willing to reproduce this experiment.

Bye Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: Kirk on July 16, 2006, 04:25:27 AM
would this help?

http://www.zelscope.com/index.html

 ;D
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: Kirk on July 16, 2006, 04:31:23 AM
There are lots more if you Google
I think this one is free. The other was free for 2 weeks

http://delphiforfun.org/Programs/oscilloscope.htm
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 bulbs, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 26, 2006, 03:56:29 PM
Well, I am back now.

And now I am a proud owner of an really fine digital storage oscilloscope *beingsohappy* ;-)

So I continued my experiment with the toroid transformer and the two small light bulbs.
You remember?

The transformer is feeded with pulsing DC current and supply a light bulb which is connected
to the secondary coil of the toroid transformer.
Each time, when the DC puls of the generator ist going to off state, the magnetic field of
the primary coil is break down and induct a voltage with an opposit polarity in the coil.

My experiement setup use shottky diodes that causes, that this opposit "kickback-voltage"
will feed a second light bulb. The normal pulse of the generator will *not* feed this
second light bulb.

(Please see picture 01_Circuit.gif for the detailed circuit)

I found out, that this kickback energy will significant increase when I place a strong
neodym magnet to a special point near the transformer coil. Please see the older entries
in this thread to get more informations about it. There you also found a video too which
shows the effect.

Unfortunately I had no tools to determine, if the power consumption of the whole
circuit will increase too in this case. My digital multimeter shows a decreasing
current tendency, but like Stefan said, we need scope shots to get for sure.
"A DMM does not show right values, if you measure non-sinus current/voltages".
And maybe the magnet only alter the magentic saturation of the ferrite core.


Well, today I built up the experiement again and took some scope-screenshots.

Plaese take a look and let me know your thoughts and comments. Thank you.


(Picture 02_Current.gif)
This picture shows the the current consumption of the whole circuit and the voltage
level of the battery. The current was measured by measuring the voltage drop across a
1 Ohm 2,5 W shunt resitor.

Chanel 1 shows the voltage across the 1 Ohm shunt resistor (current) and chanel 2
shows the voltage across the battery poles.
The black waveforms show the values without the magnet in the setup, the red
waveforms shows the same measure-points, but with the placed magnet.

You see there is a significant *drop* of power consumption, wehen the magnet
is placed and the kickback powerd light bulb becomes brighter.


(Picture 03_Voltage on coil.gif)
Here you see the voltage amounts across the kickback powerd light bulb (chanel 1)
and across the output connectors of the pulsegenerator.

Black waves = without magnet, red waves with magnet.

The voltage across the output connectors will drop a little bit, when the magnet
is placed. The voltage across the kickback powerd light bulb will alter only
very weakly. So I think only the kickback-current will increase by magnet. Further
measurements are neccessary.


(Picture 03_Voltage on coil-2.gif)
This shows the volatge levels behind the first rectifier diode and ground (chanel 2)
and again the voltage across the kickback light bulb (chanel 1).


I attach additionaly two gif-animations who shows the red and black waveforms as single
frame.


Btw: In another thread Mr. Steven Marks talked about small kicks in wires when they
interact with a magnetic field.

Quote
[...]
"If you look in Morgan Jones book, Valve Amplifiers, 3rd edition, on page 262 he says, The inrush of current through the filament interacts with the earth's magnetic field to produce a small kick.
SMALL KICK. Those words mean a great deal. It PROVES that there is an interaction between the magnetic field of the earth and simple electrons running through wires. It may be a small influence but it is actual OVER UNITY. I have spent several years of my life thinking about that."
[...]

My first thought I got related to my experiement was: Hey, the electrones get a
permanent kick *in one direction*! "Das ist wie Rueckenwind beim Radfahren - oder
Schmierseife im Kabel".

Remarkable: This effect is *only* significant at the kickback powerd light bulb!
The brightness of the normal powerd light bulb fluctuate much slightly! Even if
I disconnect the kickback light bulb and drive the circuit as a normal pulse
transformer.

I have to go on with this setup... :-)

Regards, Markus

EDIT: Damn, there is again a mistake in the circuit diagram.
The part with the coil is not between +9V and the FET transistor, but between
GND and the FET transistor. Sorry for that.

Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 bulbs, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on August 26, 2006, 05:17:13 PM
Hi Markus,

Wow, a lot of good data, and very nice scope! Is it a pc scope?

Quote
I found out, that this kickback energy will significant increase when I place a strong
neodym magnet to a special point near the transformer coil. Please see the older entries
in this thread to get more informations about it. There you also found a video too which
shows the effect.
As you probably know, that's a very well known effect. It's not really an effect because it's only due to hysterics curve of magnetic material. That is, permeability increase as the magnetic field increases in the magnetic material. Till a certain point of course, which the permeability then begins to decrease as it approaches saturation.


Quote
Unfortunately I had no tools to determine, if the power consumption of the whole
circuit will increase too in this case.
Is there other software available that would show average power?


One thing I don't understand is regarding Picture 02_Current.gif, it shows ch.2 connected to +9V battery, but it only shows 1V peek on ch.2, right?


Good work,
Paul Lowrance
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 bulbs, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 26, 2006, 07:02:06 PM
Hello Paul,
Is it a pc scope?

No it's a 'real' desktop scope with floppy disk option to save screeshots to a ms-dos formated disk.


Quote
I found out, that this kickback energy will significant increase when I place a strong
neodym magnet to a special point near the transformer coil. Please see the older entries
in this thread to get more informations about it. There you also found a video too which
shows the effect.
As you probably know, that's a very well known effect. It's not really an effect because it's only due to hysterics curve of magnetic material. That is, permeability increase as the magnetic field increases in the magnetic material. Till a certain point of course, which the permeability then begins to decrease as it approaches saturation.
Hmm, well, but if take a look on the current and voltage consumption, you see that it will
decrase while the kickback bulb obviously get more power.
Could/should this only be a kind of "better efficiency" of the core?


Quote
Unfortunately I had no tools to determine, if the power consumption of the whole
circuit will increase too in this case.
Is there other software available that would show average power?
Not for this scope. Maybe some of the internal math- and measurefunctions of the scope
are useful to calculate some informative values, but I am not an "Formula-hero", so I dont
know it for shure.

One thing I don't understand is regarding Picture 02_Current.gif, it shows ch.2 connected to +9V battery, but it only shows 1V peek on ch.2, right?
The probes I use divide the voltage by factor 10, so you must multiply all measured voltages by factor 10.
Therefor the right value ist 10 V peek on Ch. 2.

Good work,

Thank you. I hope I find some attentive readers, who call attention to my tecnical mistakes, because I surly made some - I am not a tecnical specialist. :-)

Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 bulbs, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on August 26, 2006, 07:36:23 PM
Hi Markus,

Quote
Quote
I found out, that this kickback energy will significant increase when I place a strong
neodym magnet to a special point near the transformer coil. Please see the older entries
in this thread to get more informations about it. There you also found a video too which
shows the effect.
As you probably know, that's a very well known effect. It's not really an effect because it's only due to hysterics curve of magnetic material. That is, permeability increase as the magnetic field increases in the magnetic material. Till a certain point of course, which the permeability then begins to decrease as it approaches saturation.
Hmm, well, but if take a look on the current and voltage consumption, you see that it will
decrase while the kickback bulb obviously get more power.
Could/should this only be a kind of "better efficiency" of the core?
Indeed! It should get you better efficiency. :-)  So if the device is say a so-called free energy device then it should equate to more free energy.



Quote
Quote
Unfortunately I had no tools to determine, if the power consumption of the whole
circuit will increase too in this case.
Is there other software available that would show average power?
Not for this scope. Maybe some of the internal math- and measurefunctions of the scope
are useful to calculate some informative values, but I am not an "Formula-hero", so I dont
know it for shure.
I wonder if there's some software that can capture the scope data and calculate the average power and redisplay the data on the computer screen. It would probably take too much work though.


Quote
One thing I don't understand is regarding Picture 02_Current.gif, it shows ch.2 connected to +9V battery, but it only shows 1V peek on ch.2, right?
The probes I use divide the voltage by factor 10, so you must multiply all measured voltages by factor 10.
Therefor the right value ist 10 V peek on Ch. 2.
Great, now I can see if it all makes sense to me.

I'm very interested in magnetic devices that have good potential of extracting free ambient energy. A lot of people are really into ZPE or other exotic forms of energy. That's all beyond me, so I just try to stick with conventional means. My research using conventional science points to possibilities of extracting energy from magnetic materials. There are so many things happening within magnetic material that it's truly a universe in itself!  The Magnetocaloric effect is just one of many. Hysteresis is a very exciting effect, which when viewed on a micro scale causes huge electromagnetic signals in the 100+ MHz range. That's just a few effects and I'm sure that are worlds more that conventional science knows nothing of.

Paul Lowrance
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 26, 2006, 09:42:54 PM
This evening I carried out this experiment again, but with a normal wounded
coil. No toroid core this time and no second coil only a single coil on a 5 cm/
8 mm ferrite rod.

Pictures following tomorow, but the first conclusion is:
Same effect on the kickback powerd light bulb (a bit less significant than in the other
setup), but when the bulb becomes brighter a simultaneous increase of power consuption
is noticeable. Regardless of the direction of the magnet. One side of magent causes more
consumption, other side of magnet causes even more consumption. :-)

In both cases the consumption-level is above the level without the magnet.

So I guess this looks like a normal adjustment of the permeability of the ferrite rod.
This result is definitely contrary to the first experiment with the toroid core.

Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: hartiberlin on August 26, 2006, 09:51:01 PM
Hi Markus,
great new scope and well done  experiment !
Try to see, if your scope can multiply the 2 channels.
This can be used to calculate instant power input in the way you have measured it
already !
Some scopes also have an integral function, so by multiplying Voltage and amperage ( via the shunt)
you get the power input and also energy input in a time frame.

Then if it has an integral function you can calculate the area ( Fl?che unter der Kurve)
beneath the multiplied waveform and get the energy input for this time period.

Then you should measure the same Voltage and Current ( again via the shunt) at the
kickback lamp and also at the normal lamp and compare this again in the multiply
mode with the input power or energy  during the same time period.

I guess your scope can do this, probably at least show as a 3rd trace the multiplied
waveform which will show instant power input ?
Or can it only show 2 traces ?
Maybe it can show a digital number of the multiplied 2 traces over the displayed timeperiod
it just displays,e.g. 50 milliseconds from left to right and shows the energy input this way
via a number in this e.g. 50 milliseconds timeframe ?

Good luck !

Best regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 27, 2006, 01:28:42 PM
Hi,

here are the promised screenshots from the setup with the normal
wounded coil on a ferrite rod a made yesterday.

Like I wrote, here we found comparable kickback-energy from the coil
(but this is nothing new like Paul mentioned correcly).

But when I use the magnet to increase the kickback energy I got simultaneous
an increase of power consumption of the whole circuit.

More informations whithin the picture(s).

Markus

edit: fixed a mistake in the paintings...
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 27, 2006, 01:45:53 PM
Hi Stefan,

Hi Markus,
great new scope and well done  experiment !

Try to see, if your scope can multiply the 2 channels.
This can be used to calculate instant power input in the way you have measured it
already !
Some scopes also have an integral function, so by multiplying Voltage and amperage ( via the shunt)
you get the power input and also energy input in a time frame.

Then if it has an integral function you can calculate the area ( Fl?che unter der Kurve)
beneath the multiplied waveform and get the energy input for this time period.

Then you should measure the same Voltage and Current ( again via the shunt) at the
kickback lamp and also at the normal lamp and compare this again in the multiply
mode with the input power or energy  during the same time period.

I guess your scope can do this, probably at least show as a 3rd trace the multiplied
waveform which will show instant power input ?
Or can it only show 2 traces ?
Maybe it can show a digital number of the multiplied 2 traces over the displayed timeperiod
it just displays,e.g. 50 milliseconds from left to right and shows the energy input this way
via a number in this e.g. 50 milliseconds timeframe ?

Good luck !

Thank you very much.

The scope can do all this stuff.

At first: I do not expect, that this setup will produce more energy than it gets
as input. But alone the reverse behaivor of the power consumption when the
magnet is placed near the core is IMHO very remarkable.
And it seem that this effect only appears in a magnetic-closed-loop core (toroid).

I will perform again the experiement with the toroid core and will do all
the measurements. I hope I will have enough time to do all the painting stuff
with the screenshots today and upload it.

@tao: I dont know, if this is the whole secret of the Steven Marks Device, because
in the latest SM-Device video he shows a very early version of the device, which
seems to work with a normal rod core. (I mean the device which is "build in" in a small silver
metall case together with 2 transformers and a 25 watt light bulb - I think you know
the video)

@tao (2): Yes, I will do the test with a second magnet too. Stay tuned.

Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: MeggerMan on August 27, 2006, 03:16:29 PM
Hi Markus,

Nice results!
If you increase the number of turns you should be able to increase the back emf voltage and reduce the volts drop loss of the diodes.
Also increase the cross sectional area of the torroid core will also help (bigger torroid).
I am interested in what you are doing here as I suspect this crosses over with the magnetic valve idea, see the following:
overunity.com The international free energy research forum > Mechanical setups > Magnet Motors > Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,833.225.html

Everything seems to tie in with the magnetic valve idea, the flux density in the core must be just right for the switch to work.
Can I suggest that you try to angle the magnet at 45 degrees instead of the normal 90 degrees.
Then try two magnets at a 45 degree angle with one on the inside of the core and one on the outside.
You may need to use ceramic magnets if you have them as a neodymium magnet will saturate the ferrite at around 250mT (I think).

Regards

Rob
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 27, 2006, 03:18:12 PM
Try to see, if your scope can multiply the 2 channels.
This can be used to calculate instant power input in the way you have measured it
already !

Stefan,

unfortunatelly the scope can't do two calculations on one signal at once.
The problem is, I need for measuring the voltage and the current a single
GND (at the same point for the two oscilloscope probes).

    Ch1       GND     Ch2
     |         |       |
+ o----#####-----(X)------o -
         R       bulb

But with this measurement setup one signal is always inverted.
And then the the calucation for the power per timeperiod (CH1 * CH2)
will going wrong.

The scope is not able to invert a chanel AND taking this result as
input for a second calculation.

Okay, I could try to measure the chanel 1 first and store the waveform into
a reference-memory which can be used as source for further calculations.

eg.
1) Sample Ch1 (across the 1 ohm resistor) and store the wave into Wave-Memory 1
    Ch1       GND
     |         | 
+ o----#####-----(X)------o -
         R       bulb


2) Then move the ground connector of the scope to ground of the kickback bulb
   and sample Ch1 again.
             Ch1       GND
              |         | 
+ o----#####-----(X)------o -
         R       bulb


3) During measuring signal 2) calculate the power-waveform using the waveform
   which is stored into the waveform memeory 1 (Wavememory 1 * Ch1).

BUT, I suspect the signals will get out of phase on the time axis when
I do it this way. Because the triggerpoint of the live meausred signal will not
excactly be on the same "timestamp" like the trigger of the saved waveform.

Any suggestion to solve this problem?

Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: hartiberlin on August 27, 2006, 07:15:43 PM
Hi Markus,
but it can multiply signals ?

Don?t you have an invert switch for one of the channels at the input ?
This is sometimes done directly in hardware...

If not, just calculate with the wrong inverted waveform and do a (1-x)
multiply yourself afterwards, this should be probably easy to correct afterwards,
when I am not confused right now ?
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 27, 2006, 10:34:49 PM
Hello again,

new scopeshots which shows at least the power consumption of the circuit
measured in watt seconds [I hope ;-)] (voltage * current area for one periode)
(see scope-screen1)


But this time I used a smaller, cubic neodym magnet for the experiment.
Reason for this: I tried to place two of the big magnets near the coil to
see if the effect will become much more significant. But they are to strong
and they attract each other and the core very heavily.

I need 4 hands to manage this setup. And each time the big magnets stick
at the core (whooosh... click) they will nearly "kill" the whole setup - the huge
magnetic force will suppress the magnetic flux of the coil.

But with the smaller magnets it was no problem.
I tried to place the second magnet with the opposite magnetic pole at the
other side of the core. This increases the effect a little bit.
(For example: "current" consumption (voltage over the 1 ohm shunt, see screen 1)
with one magnet was around 120 mV and with the second magnet it drops to approx.
88-90 mV.
But I get the same result when I use only one magnet and place it INTO the toroid
core. (see picture).

So I think this is the optimum related to the magnets placement.
All measures in the following scopeshots are made with this new setup.

Back to the scopeshots:
The power consumption across the the light bulbs cannot be calculated like
in the first screenshot, because of the invertion of one chanel during the
simultanous measuring of current and voltage (see my last post).

    Ch1       GND     Ch2
     |         |       |
+ o----#####-----(X)------o -
         R       bulb

But the scopeshots shows the waveforms of current and voltage and on the right
side of the screen the "area" for one periode of each signal in volt per soconds(*).
Maybe one is able to calculate the power (watt) using this two values in any
formula (Stefan, are these values usable in any kind?)
(see scope-screen2)

*) = Bereichsmessung (german explanation of the scopes function "area measurement",
     taken from the scopes manual):
"Eine Messung des Signalbereichs, die in der ausgew?hlten Zone durchgef?hrt wird,
ausgedr?ckt in Voltsekunden. Der Bereich oberhalb des des Erdpotentials ist positiv
und der Bereich unterhalb des Erdpotential ist negativ."



By the way: I also tried two other kind of coils.

1) Same toroid core, but the coil was wound with 1 layer around the complete 360
dergree of the core (instead of 180 degrees of the "original coil")

2) Same toroid core. The coil was wounded only on the half of the core like in
the original experiment, but I wounded 3 layers on it. That means I wound the first
layer on the core from the bottom to the top (180 dgr.), then the wire goes straight
from the top to the bottom of the core where I begung the wounding (yes, 3cm wire
goes directly through/over the middle of the core). Then I wound the next layer
from the bottom to the top - from there going again directly back to bottom and
wound the 3rd. layer.

Testresult: None(!) of this two coils show the effect the original coil will show!!!
(decreasing power consumption while kickback energy will increase with placed magnet)

And also if I use the original coil without the second coil (where the normal powered
light bulb is connected on), the experiment will nevertheless show the effect.

So it seems the effect appears only with 1-layered coils which are wound on one half
of a toroid ferrite core!

Regards, Markus

edit 28.08.2006: gnnrr, there was still a mistake in the paintings. The Ch1/Ch2 labels
were mixed up in the drafts which shows the scope measure-points. sorry...
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 27, 2006, 10:42:48 PM
Hi Markus,
but it can multiply signals ?

Don?t you have an invert switch for one of the channels at the input ?
This is sometimes done directly in hardware...

If not, just calculate with the wrong inverted waveform and do a (1-x)
multiply yourself afterwards, this should be probably easy to correct afterwards,
when I am not confused right now ?

No invert switch on the front panel.
This will be done in software. And if I am correct, then this can only be done,
using a calculation on the chanel which have to be inverted and generate a 3rd.
wave with the INV-function. But calculated waves cannot be measured by the
area-function. Only the real chanels.

But I will have a closer look into the manual. Maybe it's nevertheless possible.

Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: Jdo300 on August 28, 2006, 08:00:31 AM
Hi Markus,

I have been following the Steve Marks post for quite some time but have just now come across this post. Very interesting!! I was just thinking about how Steve was amplifying the kicks in his device and it *appears* that you have found out the answer. You may want to look up the subject "Magnetic Amplifiers," they are obsolete devices now of days but back in the '50's they used similar setups of both linear and toroidal cores to amplify a small signal into a big one by modifying the saturation of a ferrous core. Speaking of which, I want to duplicate your experiment and was wondering if you still have the contact information for the eBay seller that you got the core from. Also, what gauge wire do you have wound on the core? One more thing too:

Quote
- the winding orientation of the primary and secondary coilis not equal, it is oppositional (the coil-orientation painted in the draft is wrong).

What exactly do you mean about the coils being wound oppositional on the core? Do you mean that one is wound clockwise and the other is wound counter-clockwise around the toroid? Have you ever tried the experiment with the coils both wound the same to see if the effect still occurs?

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 28, 2006, 11:39:17 AM
Hello Jason,

I am elated to hear that someone will reproduce my exepriment!

...core. Speaking of which, I want to duplicate your experiment and was wondering if you still have the contact information for the eBay seller that you got the core from. Also, what gauge wire do you have wound on the core?

Because I am on my allday-job now, I can supply you with this information first this evening.
But I think it is no problem to get the ebay-nick from the seller.

Are you able to do some further measurements on this experiment?
What are your tecnical skills? I ask, because I am only a "low-grade" hobbiest with limited
possibilities.


One more thing too:
Quote
- the winding orientation of the primary and secondary coilis not equal, it is oppositional (the coil-orientation painted in the draft is wrong).

What exactly do you mean about the coils being wound oppositional on the core? Do you mean that one is wound clockwise and the other is wound counter-clockwise around the toroid? Have you ever tried the experiment with the coils both wound the same to see if the effect still occurs?

The experiement begun as a normal transformation using a pulse generator.
But I find out that the secondary coil is not necessary. So you dont need this second coil to
replicate the effect.

But to answer your question: Yes, I meant that one coil is wound clockwise and the other is wound
counter-clockwise around the toroid. And no, I never tried to change the direction of the secondary coil.

I wish you much success with the replication of this experiment.
I hope we see your results here too.

More informations about the used wire and the core comes this evening.

Oh, still one thing: I use a square wave generator with variable duty cycle of the impulse.
You have to play a bit with the frequency and the duty cycle to find a setting which
shows the maximum effect. I think this depends of the corematerial the core dimension and
the count of turns of the wire.
If I tune the generator above 25 KHz the voltages will break down dramaticly. 15.7 KHz is
a quite good frequence for my setup.

Regards, Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: Jdo300 on August 28, 2006, 02:07:41 PM
Hi Markus,

I am a second year electrical engineering student and have access to a lab to do the testing. I have an oscilloscope similar to the one you are using so I can *hopefully* do the power measurements. If not, I can get help to figure out how to do it. The results from this experiment will be very valuable because it is amazing that you are getting that much power back from the back emf spike alone! I will be very interested to try this out and get some objective measurements to compare to yours. If this device is indeed amplifying the kicks, then we have a big part of Steve Mark's device figured out now.

My next set of tests will be to create a rotating magnetic field with iron wires. My theory is that the iron wire wrapped toroidally on his two early designs is part of an oscillator circuit that is triggered by the kicks from the small toroidal transformer on his device. The kicks can then be collected into a capacitor until it fills up and discharges into the oscillator of the circuit to kick it into action. The timing of this cap's discharge can be regulated in his control circuit to have the oscillator ramp up to a certain voltage without burning up the device. But since the inductor of the oscillator is the iron coils, it will create a high frequency rotating magnetic field that will spin past his fine collector wires and produce power! I still have yet to test out this idea but that?s the basic principle in my mind :-D.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 28, 2006, 02:57:10 PM
Jason,

...My theory is that the iron wire wrapped toroidally on his two early designs is part of an oscillator circuit that is triggered by the kicks from the small toroidal transformer on his device.

I can't imagine how the wrapped iron wire should looks like.
Do you mean the iron wire is wrapped like the teslawire on my torodial core?
Or would you post a small draft so that I can understand it better?

Thank you in advance.

Groet, Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: Jdo300 on August 28, 2006, 03:20:44 PM
Hi Markus,

Yes, the iron "bailing wire" that Steve used in his early device appears to have the iron wire wound toroidally, there are four coils around the peremiter of the device so it seems like they could be wound like a two-phase AC motor to create the rotating field.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: MeggerMan on August 28, 2006, 07:25:33 PM
Hi Markus,
Just realised that it was you that did the original experiment - well done.
I too would like to re-create your experiment.
I have all parts needed, except for the CD4093, a very clever use of two diodes to get a variable duty cycle.
My old storage scope does have a digital output though.
In my component box I have a NE555 timer but that will not support a variable duty cycle of 0 to 100% as far as I know.

Did you use copper wire for the windings?
Have you tried it with copper wire?
What is Tesla wire, the only thing I can think of is copper coated iron wire?
Have you tried two magnets: one above and one below the core with like poles facing the core?
This way you should be able to get a neutral flux density in the core centre with it increasing as it gets nearer the windings.

Regards

Rob
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 28, 2006, 08:09:51 PM
Hello Jason,

...Speaking of which, I want to duplicate your experiment and was wondering if you still have the contact information for the eBay seller that you got the core from. Also, what gauge wire do you have wound on the core?

I am a bit low on time.. so a short answer this time.

The ebay-nickname of the seller of the ferrite cores is "michaelacm". This nick is still active, but he offers no cores on ebay at the moment.

The teslawire I used is 0.3 mm in diameter (*). I wound exactly 42 turns on one half of the core (180 dgr.)
The frequency of the sqarewave generator is around 15.7 KHz and the duty cycle is about 20%
on-time (I guess).

edit: Sorry, the wire is not 0.3 mm in diameter, rather 0.5 or 0.6 mm. Unfortunately I don't have the original reel, so I cant say it for sure. But compared to a well known 0.3mm wire it is thicker

Bye Markus

PS: Regarding my other post you answered ('A vague idea...' in german)... don't try to understand my
earlier drawing in this post. It won't be working. What I meant in my last post is, that I have to think about
to connect two toroid cores (from this current experiment) which feed one another with their kickbacks.
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 28, 2006, 08:19:43 PM
Hi Rob,

Hi Markus,
Just realised that it was you that did the original experiment - well done.
I too would like to re-create your experiment.
I have all parts needed, except for the CD4093, a very clever use of two diodes to get a variable duty cycle.
My old storage scope does have a digital output though.
In my component box I have a NE555 timer but that will not support a variable duty cycle of 0 to 100% as far as I know.

Thi circuit was not designed by me, so the clever use of the parallel diodes is not my merit(?). :-)

Did you use copper wire for the windings?
Have you tried it with copper wire?
What is Tesla wire, the only thing I can think of is copper coated iron wire?

Teslawire is "copperwire" coated with a thin insulation (in german: Kupferlackdraht).
The exact parameter (except the material of the core) you will find in my last post.

I wish success for your replication. And don'T forget to post your results here. ;-)


Have you tried two magnets: one above and one below the core with like poles facing the core?
This way you should be able to get a neutral flux density in the core centre with it increasing as it gets nearer the windings.

Yes I tried placing two small magnet this way, but nothing suprising was happend. :-)

Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on August 28, 2006, 08:30:33 PM
Hi Marcus,

I am very interested in building your device as I'm also very interested in unlimited energy solid-state magnetic devices, but first I would like to build your circuit in LTSpice.  I've seen two circuits in this thread, but you've mentioned errors in both. Could you please perhaps post a circuit diagram of one of your devices that you would most recommend to build? I'm interested in your most successful device that you believe produces the most output relative to input power. Or perhaps you already have a link to such a circuit.

Last night I came up with what I think could be breakthrough in how to extract energy from the magnetic material. OK, I give my idea perhaps 30% chance of being error free, but since your device and various others successful magnetic devices seem so similar to my method I was excited to study your device.

I appreciate it!
Paul Lowrance
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on August 28, 2006, 09:07:22 PM
I wanted to add that my method has to do with robbing kinetic & potential energy that magnetic moments give when magnetized. When magnetic material is magnetized it *must* give energy to something. It is basic physics that if you take two magnetic moments that are out of alignment and then make then align that you get energy.

So one could ask "Where does this energy go?"  There are several options:

1. Part of the energy goes to potential energy within the magnetic material.
2. Part of the energy goes to thermal energy. How much the magnetic material heats up depends on the materials heat capacity.
3. Part of the energy goes to electromagnetic radiation.

On #3 above you can verify this by wrapping a lot of turns of copper wire around a large piece of hard iron such as a steel nail and connecting it to your speaker amplifier. You will hear popping noises which are avalanches occurring within the hard iron.


Normally the above three forms of energy come from your battery or whatever you're using to magnetize your material. Most of #3 above is converted to #2. And #2 & #1 are converted back into potential energy when the applied magnetic field is removed. This causes the material become colder. So during each cycle it is known that magnetic materials become hotter and then colder.

Materials with high permeability tend to have less #2 and #3 above. Materials such as steel have a lot of #2 and #3.

I need to think more about my method, but so far it seems it will best work with low effective permeability. As example, a typical rod has significantly less effective permeability than a toroid. Also a major requirement is energizing the magnetic material as quickly as possible. Actually you don't want to put too much energy into energizing the material, but the correct amount.

In a nutshell, when you apply a magnetic field to magnetic material then the magnetic material aligns the magnetic moments. When this happens potential energy is being converted to kinetic energy. For example a satellite in Earths orbit has potential energy; i.e., if it falls then it converts that potential energy to kinetic energy. The same applies with magnetic material. When the material is not magnetized then the domains are not aligned, for various reasons such as thermal agitation. This is potential energy. When the domains align then that potential energy is converted to kinetic energy. The opposite also occurs when the applied field is removed; i.e., the magnetic material becomes colder as it converts kinetic energy to potential energy.

Initially it seemed almost impossible to capture that potential energy rather than allow it to go to heat. I have some really possible ideas how it could work.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. So far from what I've read about Marcus device it seems to match my method. For example Marcus mentions high voltage spikes, no?  Marcus, I am wondering about some other matches. For example, is your device more efficient when using rods sa compared to toroids? Also, is your device more efficient with material that is not too high or too low in permeability?

Paul Lowrance
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 28, 2006, 10:56:44 PM
Hello Paul,

I am very interested in building your device as I'm also very interested in unlimited energy solid-state magnetic devices, but first I would like to build your circuit in LTSpice. 

Do you really expect this effect in a software simulation? Hmm...

I've seen two circuits in this thread, but you've mentioned errors in both. Could you please perhaps post a circuit diagram of one of your devices that you would most recommend to build? I'm interested in your most successful device that you believe produces the most output relative to input power. Or perhaps you already have a link to such a circuit.

Oh damn, you're right! What I actually posted is not the actual circuit I use.

(paint paint paint...)

Okay, I attach the circuit diagram of the generator and setup I use today.
I hope I forgot no details... I would appreciate it, if you post your replication results here
on this forum. ;-)

Your remaining text and your other post I read/answer later, because I want to understand
them correctly. (I should have been more attentive in the english lessons when I was a schoolboy :-/ )

Regards, Markus

Edit 29.08.2006: Sorry again a fix in the circuit draft, the 5 volt IC was absent - it seems I am "the master of forgetfulness"  >:(
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: starcruiser on August 28, 2006, 11:36:35 PM
GM,

I was following your experiment and find it intersting. I had a thought, have you tried adding a capacitor in place of the kickback lamp yet? I am thinking this would increase the output and the efficiency perhaps. i would suggest picking a cap value that would drive the coil into resonance (primary side) and amplify the kicks even more, what do you think? You would need an inductance meter to determine the coils inductance to assit you in selecting the correct cap value though.

Carl
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on August 29, 2006, 01:05:58 AM
Markus,

Did I spell your name correct this time.  :)

Thanks for posting the circuit. I wanted to study it to see if it fits or contradicts my theory. Actually the more I dive into the theory the more details it reveals as to exactly what should I do. So I'll use LTSpice to build my circuit and see what happens. If nothing interesting then I'll be glad to build your circuit.

Basically the theory suggests that the amount of kinetic energy converted from magnetic potential energy is relative to switching speed. I won't bore you with the details. Since the amount of energy generated from the magnetic potential remains constant and less energy is converted to thermal, then the energy must go somewhere. In this case it should go to electromagnetic radiation. The only trick I have not thought much about is exactly how I am going capture the radiation. Wires going to something like a florescent bulb could capture most of the energy, but how would we efficiently capture the photons and covert to electricity? BTW, that brings up another question. What type of bulb are you using?

Paul Lowrance
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on August 29, 2006, 01:08:45 AM
Markus,

By small chance you don't know anyone near by that has access to a thermal camera do you?  Boy I sure would love to see your ferrite rod before and then during run time!

If not then is there any chance you could talk to some of the professors at a nearby college that might be interested in viewing your device through their FIR camera. BTW, please note that the type of camera you would need is a FIR (Far Infrared Radiation) Camera. Preferably somewhere between 5 and 50 THz.

Paul Lowrance
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: Jdo300 on August 29, 2006, 04:32:21 AM
Hi Markus,

I attached a picture of the two toroidal cores I got today. After studying your circuit diagram, I am curious to know if you are actually sending back emf spikes to that bulb on the primary side of the toroid. I see how you have the two diodes on the incoming side of the circuit positioned to only let the power come into the coil but not surge back into the source. But where I am confused is about that second diode on the line going to the bulb. I can see that it clearly blocks the current from the source from surging into the bulb, but when the back emf spike rushes backwards through the circuit towards the source, it seems like that current would still not go into the bulb because it is trying to go backwards. Perhaps I am looking at this the wrong way but it seems more like the spikes are charging the magnetic field of the toroid and after the spike shuts off, the current continues to flow in one direction since your diode is only allowing a one-way flow of the current. Now, if my thinking is way off, could you or someone else here explain to me what is really happening?

God Bless,
Jason O

P.S. Where did you get your Tesla wire from?
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: z_p_e on August 29, 2006, 06:28:31 AM
Jason,

The back or cemf spike created in the primary after the input pulse goes to zero, will reverse polarity in reference to the initial input pulse. As the input coil is being energized, the top of the toroid is positive wrt the bottom. When the input pulse goes low, the coil will kick back in reverse, and the bottom of the toroid will be positive wrt the top, and hence the cemf spike can energize the bulb. During the reversal, a new ISOLATED circuit is formed by the input coil, the bulb, and its series diode.

z_p_e
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 29, 2006, 09:51:46 AM
z_p_e,

thank you for explaining this.  :)

@Jason: I took the teslawire out of my wire-box.  ;) - Okay, no kidding... I bought it long time ago. I think at "conrad"
(electronic shop).

@Paul: Yes, now you spell my name correctly, but wrong spelled names are mostly not so important. ;)
Unfortunartely I don't have access to a FIR camera. I am not a student or something else, and my all all-day-job have
nothing to do with electronics. In the far past I had a training as an electrican assistent, but since I have a job with
no relation to electronic topics. So I think I would have no chance to meet someone with such a camera.
Please keep in mind, on one hand I am much intersted in the free energy topic and I have a small, basic skill in the principles
of electrical engineering, but on the other hand I am still a normal man with limited opportunities (like "the boy next door").

If you have the right conditions to do all these further tests, I would be very happy if you could do this test with
my circuit (resp. your replication of it) and share your results.

I will do some tests on weekend using thinner wire but with more turns on the same core as in the last experiment.

Regards Markus

btw. If I spell some sentences or phrases wrong, please feel free to correct me if you want. I will not
comprehend this as a "slight"(?). :)
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 29, 2006, 09:58:26 AM
...You would need an inductance meter to determine the coils inductance to assit you in selecting the correct cap value though.

Carl, unfortunately I dont own such a inductance meter. :-(

Regards  Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 29, 2006, 01:00:24 PM
@ all replicators: Please notice there is a change in the circuit draft (again) new draft (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,476.msg11472.html#msg11472)

Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: hartiberlin on August 29, 2006, 01:56:20 PM
Hi Markus,
you really have to measure input power and compare it
to both output powers at the 2 lamps.
Otherwise we would only suggest, that your
circuit is just at better efficiency, when you place the
magnet onto the core.
As this could influence the saturation of the core and this
way the energy transfer via the core, the core then could
just work as a better transformer and also store more energy
for the kickback Back EMF.
So to know, if thei circuit is overunity you must measure
input power and all output powers and compare them.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 29, 2006, 02:15:58 PM
you really have to measure input power and compare it
to both output powers at the 2 lamps.

Stefan,
look at this scopeshots I postesd already:  klick here (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,476.msg11399.html#msg11399)
Is it possible to calculate the power using the measured CycleArea-Values (see on the right of the scopeshots) for
current and voltage across the light bulbs?

To ask more precise: Is it possible to calculate power using this formula:
CycleArea of (current) x CycleArea of (voltage) instead of CycleArea of (current x voltage) ?

Where "x" means a multiplication and CycleArea means "Bereichsmessung einer Signalperiode in Vs"

Regards Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: hartiberlin on August 29, 2006, 03:21:26 PM
Hi Markus,
yes, try to multiplicate the uVs value of the voltage measurement with the
uVs of the amperage measurement (via the shunt).
This then should give an energy  value. ( power x aquisation time)
Then divide through this aquisation time and you have the realtime power.

You have to find out from the manual, how the scope calculates
this uVs value over the time period. Is it just a average voltage or
a mean root square voltage ? (RMS voltage)
Then you could add or multiply in a correction factor.

P.S: Why does your scope also display uVVs so 2 Voltage "V" in the center ?
What is this ?
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on August 29, 2006, 04:55:21 PM
Hi Markus,

I think you're really on to something as there many other devices very similar to yours. I believe Tom Bearden's MEG uses the same principle as yours. I have to agree with Stephan that figuring out the efficiency is very important, even if you have to do it by hand.

Paul Lowrance
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 29, 2006, 10:08:54 PM
yes, try to multiplicate the uVs value of the voltage measurement with the
uVs of the amperage measurement (via the shunt).
This then should give an energy value. ( power x aquisation time)
Then divide through this aquisation time and you have the realtime power.

Okay, I will do this next time... but one thing makes me thoughtful.
The description of the scopes CyclArea-Measure-function says, that areas above
the groundlevel (GND) are positive and areas beneath the ground are negative.

I am not sure that this is the right way to measure the power.
For example a pure sinuswave which have equivalent positiv and negativ areas will
nullify the measurement to zero (if I understand the function correctly)?

To go the right way I attach a part of the scopes manual which describes some
of the measurement-abilities and some of the algorithms behind the functions.
Stupidly I never had integral calculus at school, so I cannot say for sure what is the
most suitable function for the measurement. But maybe you are better trained for it? ;-)

P.S: Why does your scope also display uVVs so 2 Voltage "V" in the center ?
What is this ?

When I multiply 2 signals first and do a CyclArea-measurement on the resulting
waveform (which is the product of the two single waveforms), then the scope indicate
this by using "VVs" as unit.

Regards, Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: hartiberlin on August 29, 2006, 10:23:29 PM
Hi Markus, versuch mal von beiden Signalen
den RMS (EFF) Wert zu multiplizieren !

Das m?sste dann dem entsprechen,
als ob Du Gleichspannungen verwendest und
DC Spannung x DC Strom multiplizierst.
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: Jdo300 on August 29, 2006, 10:47:56 PM
Jason,

The back or cemf spike created in the primary after the input pulse goes to zero, will reverse polarity in reference to the initial input pulse. As the input coil is being energized, the top of the toroid is positive wrt the bottom. When the input pulse goes low, the coil will kick back in reverse, and the bottom of the toroid will be positive wrt the top, and hence the cemf spike can energize the bulb. During the reversal, a new ISOLATED circuit is formed by the input coil, the bulb, and its series diode.

z_p_e

Thanks z_p_e, that really cleared it up for me. I had been thinking that the back emf was actually traveling backwards through the coil rather than just rushing forwards in the same direction as the input. That makes much more sense now ;D.

Hi Markus,

I attached a picture of the two toroidal cores I got today. After studying your circuit diagram, I am curious to know if you are actually sending back emf spikes to that bulb on the primary side of the toroid. I see how you have the two diodes on the incoming side of the circuit positioned to only let the power come into the coil but not surge back into the source. But where I am confused is about that second diode on the line going to the bulb. I can see that it clearly blocks the current from the source from surging into the bulb, but when the back emf spike rushes backwards through the circuit towards the source, it seems like that current would still not go into the bulb because it is trying to go backwards. Perhaps I am looking at this the wrong way but it seems more like the spikes are charging the magnetic field of the toroid and after the spike shuts off, the current continues to flow in one direction since your diode is only allowing a one-way flow of the current. Now, if my thinking is way off, could you or someone else here explain to me what is really happening?

God Bless,
Jason O

P.S. Where did you get your Tesla wire from?

I was going to buy those EXACT same toroids off ebay like two months ago, lol, $14. :)

I saw the quantity drop by 1, hehe.

EDIT: Matter of fact, I just bought a pair for $14 myself..... :)


Dimensions are (in inches): 2.60OD x 1.20ID x 1.05H.


Tao,

Yup, those are the exact dimeneions of the cores that I have. Do you know anything about them? I want to find out what kind of material they are made of and weather they can work at high frequencies or low frequencies.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: MeggerMan on August 30, 2006, 09:56:13 AM
Hi Marcus,
I had an idea this morning while standing in the shower, as you do.
What about using a DC-DC converter IC and replace the standard inductor with the toroid core and magnet.
MC34063A
These things are very efficient at around 87 percent or higher in step-up voltage mode.
I think some of the more expensive ones are as high as 95%.
You can adjust the frequency via the timing capacitor.
The output voltage is fixed by two resistors R1 and R2.
Output is up to 1.5A

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/16073.pdf (http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/16073.pdf)

I have used the above IC and it works very well in normal mode, but I will try it again, but with the magnet.

Description:
Quote
MC34063A
DC-to-DC Converter
Control Circuits
The MC34063A Series is a monolithic control circuit containing the
primary functions required for DC?to?DC converters. These devices
consist of an internal temperature compensated reference, comparator,
controlled duty cycle oscillator with an active current limit circuit,
driver and high current output switch. This series was specifically
designed to be incorporated in Step?Down and Step?Up and
Voltage?Inverting applications with a minimum number of external
components. Refer to Application Notes AN920A/D and AN954/D
for additional design information.
? Operation from 3.0 V to 40 V Input
? Low Standby Current
? Current Limiting
? Output Switch Current to 1.5 A
? Output Voltage Adjustable
? Frequency Operation to 100 kHz
? Precision 2% Reference

Regards

Rob
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 30, 2006, 01:32:42 PM
@ Paul:
Thank you for the insight into "robbing kinetic & potential energy" and your elucidation
about this topic.
I know nearly nothing about magnetic domains within magnetizable materials, but it sounds
interesting. It is an interesting aspect that a change of the domain-alignments inevitably
cause a emission of energy.

Maybe the magnet in my setup will cause a faster re-aligning of the magnetic domains
in the toroid core and cause a higher energy emission - same way as you noticed in your
other post? Hmm, but why does it do not work this way with a coil on a normal ferrite rod?

Quote
Last night I came up with what I think could be breakthrough in how to extract energy
from the magnetic material. OK, I give my idea perhaps 30% chance of being error free,
but since your device and various others successful magnetic devices seem so similar
to my method I was excited to study your device.

Would you talk about your idea? Mybe we (or better all readers) could learn from each
other and enlarge our knowledge - unless you want to handle it as secret yet.

Quote
On #3 above you can verify this by wrapping a lot of turns of copper wire around a
large piece of hard iron such as a steel nail and connecting it to your speaker
amplifier. You will hear popping noises which are avalanches occurring within the
hard iron.

Yes I read about this "experiement" long time ago on a very intersting
website of two quite clever and striving guys from austria - http://www.hcrs.at/

Quote
Marcus, I am wondering about some other matches. For example, is your device more
efficient when using rods sa compared to toroids? Also, is your device more efficient
with material that is not too high or too low in permeability?

I tried it with a coil on a ferrite rod, but there is no effect noticable
(effect = increasing kickback energy while the total power consumption drops)

I didn't tried other toroidal core materials, because I own only this kind of ferrite
core. I think I can get a damaged PC-Power supply from a friend. So therin I will
hopefully find some other kinds of ferrite cores to play with (from the step-up
switching circuit).

Quote
...So I'll use LTSpice to build my circuit and see what happens. If nothing interesting
then I'll be glad to build your circuit.

I am very excited/wonder(?) on your results.

@Jason:
Your two cores looks fine. Please notice that I forgot the 5V voltage regulator in
my circuit diagram. Okay, It would work without it, but if you drive the circuit with
more than 12 volts it will damaged. The (hopefully last and) correct circuit diagramm-
version is online since yesterday. :-) I built the circuit long time ago, so I forgot
some of the modifications I made on the orginally circuit (which was a dimmer for halogen
light bulbs :-) )

@kingrs:
The modification with the antiparallel diodes in the circuit is still a mod made by me
(in contrast to my last statement). So I think I have to vet myself for 'Alzheimer'?
Okay, just kidding ;-)... but I am really stressed last time to manage the allday job,
the family, the everyday life under the aspect of my huge desire to go on experimenting
in every free minute!

Quote
I had an idea this morning while standing in the shower, as you do.
What about using a DC-DC converter IC and replace the standard inductor with the toroid
core and magnet. MC34063A
(...)
I have used the above IC and it works very well in normal mode, but I will try it again,
but with the magnet.

Rob, this sounds interesting, but keep in mind that the effect of increasing voltage and
current (when the magnet is placed) only occurs on the back emf of the coil! The normal
transformation will much less participate from this effect.
I don't know which exact signal-waveform DC-DC converter use for the transformation
(squarewave or sinus or something else), but I can't imagine that this converters are
working with the kickback energy of the transformation coils.

So you have to modify the circuit of the DC-DC converter. And maybe youl will result
in a circuit similar to mine.


But one word generally word from me to the Steven marks topic.

I don't think that this effect, which appears in my circuit, is the main secret of Steven
Marks device.
Okay, in his bigger devices we see similar cores with toroidial wounded wires on it, but
I think this only a clever (and maybe selfrunning) circuit to generate a signal wich will
be amplify by *somewhat* which *is* the main secret of the device.

I can't imagine that this two small cores in his 1 KW-device are able to produce so much
energy. The main secret lies in my opinion in the outher ring - which obviously does't
contain any magnetic material! Look at the videos - the big ring can be cutted by a
simple electro saw. There is no metall within.
In the videos some people handle with a big speaker magnet closely at the small black
toroidal device, but no attraction appears. So I think this device or core comprise not
from magenetic material.


Actually I (try to) read the 'monster topic' in this forum <The Master Of Magnetics
"Steven Mark">. Every day a few pages. At the moment I am at the spot where Steven
talks about his boss and the explosion of the TV-set with the marvelousness magnetic
eruption.

During sucking every kind of information I will modify my sight of the device a little bit.
Also the airly informations from Mr. Mannix keep my mind in motion.

So I think the main secret has rather to do with the way how the bigger air/corc-cored coils
are wound and how they are feeded with pulsing dc.

Regards, Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: MeggerMan on August 30, 2006, 02:23:22 PM
Hi Marcus,
As I undertand it, a DC-DC controller does everything that you are doing in your circuit but in one package.
It uses the back emf to step up the voltage.
I tested your pulse circuit in Electronics Work Bench and the mark/space ratio does not seem to work very well.
I did 555 timer IC circuit that seems to work better.

Try replacing your standard diodes with Schottky diodes as these have a low drop-out voltage and will make your
circuit more efficient.
i.e.

ST MICROELECTRONICS STPS1L30A Voltage, Vrrm:30V; Current, If av:1A; Voltage, forward at If:0.3V; Current, Ifs max:75A;
or
INTERNATIONAL RECTIFIER 30BQ100   Voltage, Vrrm:100V; Current, If av:3A; Voltage, forward at If:0.3V; Current, Ifs max:650A

I am looking at various controller specs at the moment to try to find ones that have a high efficiency and low operating frequency.
You mentioned 15kHz which is very low, most controller ICs seem to start at around 50kHz.
The reason for this is to reduce the size of the inductor, which in our case we want as big as possible.

I will try the controller I have at the moment and post my results.
Because the output voltage is fixed, I will use a fixed load and watch to see if the input load goes up or down when I introduce a magnet near the core.

Regards

Rob
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 30, 2006, 02:41:41 PM
As I undertand it, a DC-DC controller does everything that you are doing in your circuit but in one package.
It uses the back emf to step up the voltage.

Oh okay, it was new for me that this controellers use the back emf.
Thank you for this information.

Try replacing your standard diodes with Schottky diodes as these have a low drop-out voltage and will make your
circuit more efficient.

I already use low drop diodes (shottky, SB 130) with around 130 mV drop voltage.
But with an back emf of aprox. 42.0 volts it doesn't matter if the drop will be 0.7 volt or 0.13 volt I think. ;-)

I will try the controller I have at the moment and post my results.
Because the output voltage is fixed, I will use a fixed load and watch to see if the input
load goes up or down when I introduce a magnet near the core.

Fine, I am curious about your results.
Good luck and much success!

Bye Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: MeggerMan on August 30, 2006, 03:56:46 PM
Hi Marcus,
Every millivolt counts.
500mV drop over 24V ~ 2%

The Schottky diode you refered to, is it made by Fairchild?
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/SB%2FSB130.pdf

This has quite a large forward voltage of 500mV not 130mV.
You could shave another 1% off your circuit by using a better diode at 24V.
Check you output voltage, if your bulb is only 12v and only partly lit then you could be chucking away up to 5%.

The lowest forward voltage drop I could find at FarnellInOne (1056 diodes) was:
BAT754S by Philips, 200mV but only 200mA BAT754S by Philips.
DSSK 80-0008D by IXYS SEMICONDUCTOR at 230mV 40A, but only 8V.
20L15TSPBF by INTERNATIONAL RECTIFIER at 250mV 20A but again only 15V.

Here's one 1PS74SB23 by Philips 260mV 1A and 25V.



Regards

Rob


Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 30, 2006, 04:31:44 PM
Rob,

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/SB%2FSB130.pdf

This has quite a large forward voltage of 500mV not 130mV.

Yes, your'e right. It is the right diode.
And you are also right with the forward voltage (500 mV acc. datasheet, but @ 1 Amp.)

I used this type of diode in another circuit. And I looked for a diode with
low voltage drop. I testes some diodes in this circuit and the SB 130 was one of the
diodes in my box with a quite low voltage drop (around 130 mV).
But not at 1 Amp, rather than 1-5 mA ;-).

I think this the reason for my "wrong" statement (wow, this time it was not my forgetfulness).

Bye Markus


PS: But first I will do some real and comparable measurements on the existing setup
befor I try other setups. I will do this most likely next weekend.
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on August 30, 2006, 04:46:48 PM
Hi Markus,

Quote
Last night I came up with what I think could be breakthrough in how to extract energy
from the magnetic material. OK, I give my idea perhaps 30% chance of being error free,
but since your device and various others successful magnetic devices seem so similar
to my method I was excited to study your device.
Would you talk about your idea? Mybe we (or better all readers) could learn from each
other and enlarge our knowledge - unless you want to handle it as secret yet.

It's only small chance it's a correct theory/hypothesis, but I'll describe it some more and hopefully not bore everyone.  There's yet another coincidence. Last mentioned, the trick was in trying to extract the energy that is distributed by realigning magnetic moments. I just recently found the trick, which it seems you have already been using, lol. The problem was that the extra energy occurs while the coils current is increasing. But if we place a permanent magnet polarized in the correct direction so that it opposes the coils field then we can extract the extra energy during the opposite cycle. In other words, we can extract the energy during the collapsing field, not on the rise. So what is really happening is that the field is rising, not collapsing, because of the permanent magnet. Basically the reason being is that the permanent magnetic reverses the process.

As to why this may be the case is not easy to describe unless by computer animation. Also it's just a theory / hypothesis not yet backed by mathematics or computer simulations. Basically we have electrons that cause the magnetic field. Most of the field is caused by intrinsic electron spin. These electrons flip during magnetic avalanches. When they flip they convert potential energy into kinetic energy. That is a fact. My theory / hypothesis is that the faster the applied magnetic field rise equates to less energy being absorbed by the electrons neighboring atoms _if_ the circuit takes advantage of it.



Quote
Marcus, I am wondering about some other matches. For example, is your device more
efficient when using rods sa compared to toroids? Also, is your device more efficient
with material that is not too high or too low in permeability?
I tried it with a coil on a ferrite rod, but there is no effect noticable
(effect = increasing kickback energy while the total power consumption drops)

I didn't tried other toroidal core materials, because I own only this kind of ferrite
core. I think I can get a damaged PC-Power supply from a friend. So therin I will
hopefully find some other kinds of ferrite cores to play with (from the step-up
switching circuit).
Are you saying your toroid has the effect but the rod did not? As you know, toroid has much higher _effective_ permeability compared to rods. So it's a matter of permeability. As to the exact values of permeability that the hypothesis predicts I am not sure unless I wrote some advanced simulation program. Initially I the lower permeability might equate to better results, but the permanent magnetic trick changes everything. Basically the idea is the get the magnetic material to switch to a higher state as quickly as possible. Although, faster switching equates to more energy loss-- less efficient. Higher permeability equate to less energy to magnetize the material. So really there should be a happy balance. My concern with toroids is making sure it can switch fast enough.

Presently I would guesstimate that your best material of choice would be laminated transformer iron in the form of a toroid. ***BUT***, presently I cannot see a good method of extracting the extra energy except only by using a permanent magnet. In this case, you would have to insert the permanent magnet inside the toroid in a similar fashion as Tom Bearden's MEG. Wow this is getting exciting and if true then it seems to be linking numerous magnetic devices together.  My problem with the MEG is they use such high permeability material. It's my understanding that such material is very sensitive to changes such as temperature and perhaps even physical shock. According to the hypothesis, the free energy is coming from ambient temperature-- the magnetic material becomes colder. This could cause the device to work just momentarily.

So I am very interested in your results in that which exact demonstrated the free energy effect? It was only the toroid and you never saw any free energy effect with rods?  If that's the case then I'll just concentrate on toroids since I have no simulations of this to guide me.



Maybe the magnet in my setup will cause a faster re-aligning of the magnetic domains
in the toroid core and cause a higher energy emission - same way as you noticed in your
other post? Hmm, but why does it do not work this way with a coil on a normal ferrite rod?
According to the hypothesis, the applied magnetic field from the coil must demonstrate two unit signals. 1. A relatively slow and steady rise in current-- lower di/dt.  2. A sudden change in current in the opposite direction-- high di/dt.  Also, it seems very difficult to extract the extra energy unless you use a permanent magnet to flip the process. This switches the extra energy cycle to the collapsing applied field, which is what you want so that you can extract the energy. In other words, how can you extract energy at the same time you are adding energy. This is why the permanent magnet is so important, or at least I presently see no method of doing both at the same time. The permanent magnet splits the two processes so that you add energy during one half of the cycle and can then extract the extra energy during the other half of the cycle.

OK, that's enough talk on just a hypothesis. Over the next few days I hope to build an appropriate efficient circuit to test this. If it does not work then it could be incorrect hypothesis or simply not the appropriate magnetic material. Only successful device or simulation can decisively determine this. Hopefully tomorrow I'll build the device.

Thanks for listening and for the great help of your device. Let's cross our fingers and hope that the hypothesis can construct an improved device that is good enough to actually run by itself. If it works then I'll fully published and given to humanity. The goal is so that anyone may freely build the device for themselves or even freely build and sale for profit or non-profit as they wish.

Kind regards,
Paul Lowrance
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on August 30, 2006, 04:54:03 PM
I tested your pulse circuit in Electronics Work Bench
Hi kingrs,

How do you like Electronics WorkBench?  I'm just using the free LTspice and have to hunt around for models, but I really like it. Have you tried LTspice and if so how does it compare to Electronics WorkBench?

Thanks,
Paul Lowrance
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: MeggerMan on August 30, 2006, 11:52:02 PM
Hi Paul,
EWB is OK I suppose, it will stop the simulation some times and I cannot figure out why.
Its good for trying out an idea with actual manufacturer components, it has most of them in its library.
Funny thing: if you simulate a lamp, and drive to much voltage through it, the filament blows and disappears from the diagram.
I did the pulse circuit using a 555 timer 12v supply and iron core coil and a 24v lamp and it blew!

I have a DC-DC converter circuit made up already(built it over 3 years ago on a proper pcb), I just need to wind my toroid and wire it in and I will be ready for testing.
If all goes to plan I will order up some schottky diodes too.

I wanted to have a go at building a MEG device and this seems so simple it will make a good starting point.
I have been following the Hilden-Brand Motor for some time now and experimenting with FEMM 4.0 simulation software and this does a very good job at showing the flux valve in action, but I have yet to prove by simulation if it can give over-unity.
What Markus seems to have done is to drop the supply current and increase the output in the back emf just by externally introducing a magnet, I would never have thought of putting the magnet on the outside, but it gives you a lot of flexability.

The critical thing I found in all my simulations is that too much input power will over-whelm the core material and you will not get over-unity, there seems to be a sweet-spot of input power and flux density of the permanent magnet for a given core material.

Also, a rod will never work as there is no return path for the field, a toroid is the best shape for a return path.
An "EE" core (two "E" shaped pieces of ferrite) is the easiest to wind a coil for and has a good return path.
Farnell has a good choice of "E" cores.
For large toroid cores I plan to use a 0-12v 0-12v mains toroidal transformer and just use the secondary windings as is. The only limit using a mains toroid is the core material may not be suitable for high frequency pulsing.
They do some massive toroids for mains, 1000Watts 7.5kG toroid rated at 40-0v 40-0v at 12.5 A.


Regards

Rob

Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on August 31, 2006, 12:53:54 AM
Quote from: kingrs
Hi Paul,
EWB is OK I suppose, it will stop the simulation some times and I cannot figure out why.
Its good for trying out an idea with actual manufacturer components, it has most of them in its library.
Funny thing: if you simulate a lamp, and drive to much voltage through it, the filament blows and disappears from the diagram.
Now that is an accurate circuit sim! :-)


Quote from: kingrs
I have been following the Hilden-Brand Motor for some time now and experimenting with FEMM 4.0 simulation software and this does a very good job at showing the flux valve in action, but I have yet to prove by simulation if it can give over-unity.
Actually if these type of simulators showed over unity then it's flawed, lol.  Truthfully after studying magnetic properties for some time now there is free energy to be gained by ambient temperature, but it can't be put in some simple magnetic math equation. What happens inside magnetic material is a whole universe in itself. It amazes me. Things like avalanche are so complex that modern day computer sims are just beginning to touch it.  But these type of simulators that use Ising models are working on a molecular level (not quite atomic yet) ... something of which FEMM by no means does.

It is possible that a complex Ising model that goes beyond what anything I've seen so far could report thermal energy conversion to electricity. Last year I wrote a similar type of program, but turned out to take about a year just for one simulation. I never completed the sim., which required the addition of ambient temperature.

Ising models don't analyze what's actually going on inside the atom. My non-mathematical hypothesis is actually based on what's happening on this atomic level. Crazy. That's why I give it low odds of being accurate. :( Although I'm just amazed at so many coincidences. In other words, if you just started with the hypothesis from scratch and knew nothing about the MEG or Markus device then you should end up with a device very similar. So are they just coincidences?


Quote from: kingrs
What Markus seems to have done is to drop the supply current and increase the output in the back emf just by externally introducing a magnet, I would never have thought of putting the magnet on the outside, but it gives you a lot of flexability.
Doesn't Markus place a magnet inside a toroid? That's pretty much the same effect that the MEG has. Although Markus coils are different, but over all it's pretty much the same effect IMHO, just a different flavor. I really believe Markus and the MEG are legitimate so-called "free energy" devices.


Quote from: kingrs
The critical thing I found in all my simulations is that too much input power will over-whelm the core material and you will not get over-unity, there seems to be a sweet-spot of input power and flux density of the permanent magnet for a given core material.
Has anyone successfully used a typical iron core transformer for these type of devices?


Quote from: kingrs
Also, a rod will never work as there is no return path for the field, a toroid is the best shape for a return path.
Your right there's not much other than air (perm. ~= 1). The hypothesis shows that you want to switch the core as quickly as possible, but that requires more energy. Somewhere there's a happy medium. My simulations of toroids last year (not FEMM) showed how toroids get their high effective permeability. Unfortunately the extra effective permeability comes at the cost of time. But I was probably overdoing it since toroids can achieve high frequencies. A short rod can indeed achieve even higher frequencies, but it's probably an over kill.

I think you guys are correct in that higher perm (to within reason) is better since it requires less energy to magnetize the material.

Paul
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on August 31, 2006, 01:18:55 AM
Hi,

Is FEMM 4.01 the latest version? Every once in a while I get into problems where it takes forever during analysis and I know this is a program bug.  For example, it works fine for hours and all sudden I make a change and it can't analyze. It just sits there forever. Then I'll cancel it and click the undo button to put it back where it was and if I analyze again it still can't finish. So I'll restart the program and same thing, it freezes.

What I have to do is click New and complete recreate the exact same thing from scratch, except it analyzes without freezing. If there's a new FEMM version could someone post the download link?

Thanks,
Paul Lowrance
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: MeggerMan on August 31, 2006, 10:56:26 AM
Femm seems to lock up if you put two materials too close together, arcs next to arcs seem to cause me no end of issues.
Check the matrix is not creating too many triangles in a small space.
I think there are some issues with two surfaces very close to each other and it gives some very odd results for the torque.  If you looks at my latest simulation the torque change from 0.5 to 5 n/M

Regards

Rob
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on August 31, 2006, 04:00:55 PM
It tried spacing objects and made sure there we not very many nodes (few hundred), but haven't tried using the arcs. You mentioned torque in FEMM. Is that something I could change that might help?

Thanks,
Paul Lowrance
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: Jdo300 on August 31, 2006, 06:32:38 PM
Hi Paul,

I use FEMME all the time to do permanent magnet motor simulations and coils setups. If you post a copy of the .fem file, I'll be glad to take a look at it to see why you are having problems.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on August 31, 2006, 09:52:45 PM
Hello everybody,

now I have done the measurements on my circuit and worked out the results.

I made two measurements because I used two kinds of coils.
Reason: In contrast to my previous mention the three layered coil around
the torodial core *does* show an effect, but in another way.

Where the 1-layered coil shows increasing kickback power and simultaneous
decreasing overall power consumption, the 3-layered coil shows nearly no
increase of kickback power but much more of decreasing of the overall power
consumption!

The first picture shows the measurements with the 3-layered coil.

All voltages where measures with the scopes RMS(eff) function which
read the RMS effectiv voltage for one signalperiode.

The voltages shown on the scopes screenshot have to be multiplied by
factor 10, because of the :10 dividide-factor of the scopes probes.


Picture 1, three-layered coil:
             Input power     Output power
w/o magnet   4.16 W          0.65 W
w magnet     1.52 W          0.64 W



The second picture shows the measurements with the 1-layered coil.

Picture 2, one-layered coil:
             Input power     Output power
w/o magnet   5.7024 W        0.41648 W
w magnet     3.016 W         0.79968 W



Worse luck! If the method of measurement and calculation is the right way,
then we have no over unity here (as I expected).
The values are showing a bad efficiency. :-/

Hmmm, subjectively I would say, the effect was more conspicuous with a
connected light bulb at the secondary coil using @ 15.8 KHz (as shown in my
previous experiements). This is a bit wired. I have to test more frequencies,
duty cycles and configurations.

In the animation you'll see a high scaled shot from the kickback-spike of
measurement-arrangement no. 2 (1-layered coil).
In the first frame you see current and voltage across the light bulb without
the magnet. In frame 2 with the magnet inside the core and in frame 3 I turned
the magnet by 180 degrees (which caused I higher overall power consumption
of the whole circuit than without magnet!)


What shall I say as conclusion? I think this arrangement doesn't have the potential
to be a over-unity device.

Regards, Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: Jdo300 on August 31, 2006, 10:27:13 PM
Hello GM and all,

Here is an idea for you. Take the power from the back emf spikes and store it into a capacitor. Use the capacitor to feed a resonant tank circuit and use the output from the tank circuit to pulse feed power back into the primary side of the coil on your transformer. Assuming that you can capture the back emf spikes for 'free' without loading the source circuit. Just my two cents :-). I will still try out this circuit to see what kind of results I get.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on September 01, 2006, 12:04:10 AM
Hi Jdo300,

Thanks for the reply. The forum does not allow .FEM files so I renamed it to EM2.txt  You can rename it to EM2.FEM

It seems that if I use the "snap to grid" then the problem goes away, so far. Knock on wood!

The attached file freezes with my FEMM 4.01, but if you realign all points to the grid then it seems to work. Do you think it's just my version of FEMM?

Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on September 01, 2006, 12:18:06 AM
I spoke too soon. All the dots are snapped to the grid, but it still freezes. See the attached file EM2b.txt

Paul
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: MeggerMan on September 01, 2006, 12:56:12 AM
Hi Markus,
I wish I had your scope, well done on the results.

So your best results so far is 42% output from 100% input.
But if you can get your circuit up to say 85 to 90% output and then introduce the magnet, then I think you may be on to a winner.

I am sorry I have no results yet, hope to do some testing Friday afternoon (finish early on a Friday).
First test will be to get to 85% using a step-up DC-DC converter and toroid then move on from there.

Just tested my dc-dc circuit at 154mA and managed 82.4% but there is very little change with the PM added.

Regards

Rob
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: z_p_e on September 01, 2006, 01:47:03 AM
Markus,

I have done extensive work on the design of coil pulse drive circuits for pulse motors, and have found that the cemf spike you are capturing and trying to make greater than your initial input power is only good for about a 64% return. However, you have to remember that you are also doing work with the original coil pulse, and the cemf spike is essentially free.

If you monitor the input coil current, replace the cemf bulb with a short, then monitor the cemf pulse current, you will see that the two peak currents are almost identical, however, the pulse duration of the cemf pulse will only be about 64% the length of your input pulse. This of course assumes that your input coil current has not "plateaued" and is still rising before you turn off the current.

I would suggest you try this (shorting out the load) and confirm the 64%, then apply your magnet and see if you can stretch the pulse out again to exceed the 64%. You should also see that the peak currents are equal in amplitude.

Why not do some work with the input pulse such as driving a pulse motor? Then capture the cemf spikes to step-charge a capacitor to ~40V (assuming a 12V battery), then discharge it into a second battery and repeat. Bedini claims this will re-charge a spent battery before the first battery dies, which implies you can continuously rotate the batteries and run your pulse motor for as long as you want.

z_p_e
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on September 01, 2006, 05:47:07 PM
Hi Paul,

I use FEMME all the time to do permanent magnet motor simulations and coils setups. If you post a copy of the .fem file, I'll be glad to take a look at it to see why you are having problems.

God Bless,
Jason O
Hi Jason,

I'm just wondering if you had a chance to try my FEMM files that I posted yesterday?

Paul
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: Jdo300 on September 02, 2006, 09:46:06 AM
Hi Paul,

I loaded the file in FEMME and it got stuck half-way through the calculation process. This is a rare error, I've never had it happen in version 4.0. At the moment I am not sure what is causing it but if I were to take a guess, I would double-check the materials that you are using an make sure that the settings for those are correct. I'll keep playing with it and let you know if I come up with more information.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on September 02, 2006, 10:39:31 AM
Hello z_p_e,

I have done extensive work on the design of coil pulse drive circuits for pulse motors, and have found that the cemf spike you are capturing and trying to make greater than your initial input power is only good for about a 64% return. However, you have to remember that you are also doing work with the original coil pulse, and the cemf spike is essentially free.

If you monitor the input coil current, replace the cemf bulb with a short, then monitor the cemf pulse current, you will see that the two peak currents are almost identical, however, the pulse duration of the cemf pulse will only be about 64% the length of your input pulse. This of course assumes that your input coil current has not "plateaued" and is still rising before you turn off the current.

I would suggest you try this (shorting out the load) and confirm the 64%, then apply your magnet and see if you can stretch the pulse out again to exceed the 64%. You should also see that the peak currents are equal in amplitude.

Why not do some work with the input pulse such as driving a pulse motor? Then capture the cemf spikes to step-charge a capacitor to ~40V (assuming a 12V battery), then discharge it into a second battery and repeat. Bedini claims this will re-charge a spent battery before the first battery dies, which implies you can continuously rotate the batteries and run your pulse motor for as long as you want.

Thank you very much for your informations about the cemf spike and its percentage proportion to the overall power.
Also thanks for your suggest how to improve this experiement (ditto to kingrs!). I will surely do this in good season.

As I formerly said in this thread my main goal is to learn how Mr. Marks device is working.
During the process of collecting more and more fragments of informations about Mr. Marks device, I change the point of view how it works serveral times. So currently I don't think this experiement will picture the main secret of Mr. Marks invention. I want to concentrate to more basically experiments now which don't use any metallic core. I don't want to get stuck by focusing only to one small approach.

Of course I will post results, progress or simply questions also in this thread.

Maybe some of the reproducers of my experiement want to go on with the current setup. As you already indicated it have some capabilities to be a OU-device.

Regards, Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on September 02, 2006, 06:19:00 PM
Thanks Jason,

I'll look into the materials as you suggested.  I have noticed, so far, when I remove the coil the problem goes away.  If true, then I don't see why since the coil is simple copper material and a circuit property. As far as I can see, circuit properties are very simple-- a series/parallel checkbox and two current parameters.

That file was taken from one of the femm examples as a seed for that file. Presently I am working with a different femm example and so far so good-- knock on wood! :-)



Marcus,

It's good to hear you will still work on your devices. This morning I am more convinced than ever that you and Patrick Stephen's MEG are on to something big-- real potential for "free energy."  If I ever get FEMM working, lol, then I have a design that will hopefully shed some light.

BTW, Patrick Stephen is the original creator of the MEG, correct?

Paul
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on September 02, 2006, 06:45:49 PM
Jason,

Someone emailed me the answer, but I don't understand why it works since I don't understand exactly what the boundary property does.

He said ->


> as a first pass make a boundary called Zero with
> prescribed characteristics defaulted to zero.  Then
> go back select the edges of your box [all four] and assign
> those edges to the name, Zero.
>
> THEN your program will run as it stands. 


Thanks for help,
Paul
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on September 02, 2006, 10:22:28 PM
Hello again,

this time I would ask for your opinion about the "kick-effect" Mr. Steven Mark
mentioned when a current is floating through a wire for the first time.

Mr. Mark said:
"Scientists tell us that over unity is impossible. They say that you cannot
get more out of something then you put into it.
Then I think about that wire with the small kick when first turned on. . .
There in lies the secret my friend."

So I took him at his word and made a simple experiment.

I took my squarewave generator and feeded a simple 60cm wire with the square pulses.
Yes I simply shorten the output of the generator with an 60cm wire and measured
the voltage between this 60cm of copper. With an adequate high frequency this is not
destrutive for the output-transistor of the generator. :-)

But strictly speaking I also use a diode directly after the output of the generator
to uncouple the opositional cemf spike from the generator.

Then I measured the generatorsignal on chanel 1 of the scope and on the same
time the voltage across the 60cm wire on chanel 2.

So you see the inputsignal which is injected into the wire, ch1,  and compare
it to the voltage drop across the 60 cm wire, ch 2 (wich also gives informations
about the current that flow through the wire at the same time. The wire was
a quite thick copper wire, so I don't think that the resistance does change
during the experiment - not like "the glowing wire" within a incandescent lamp would do)

Look at the scope shots. Should this be the initial "Kicks" Mr. Mark is meaning?
(You have to multiply the shown voltages by factor 10, because of the used scope
probes which dividide the voltage by 10)

I hope so, but I would gladly hear your opinion.
And please let me also know if my setup/measurement is completely bullshit because of
errors in reasonings or something else. Thank you very much.


Regards, Markus


PS: I read still only the first 20% of the big thread >The Master Of Magnetics "Steven Mark"<
but it seems some of the readers nearly scared off Mr. Mark in this short time by asking thumb
questions or get him on his nerves with demanding more detailed informations about his invention.

I feel sad about the course of the above-mentioned thread, because I think it is a
unique chance to get in contact with such a great inventor. Since I saw the SM-Videos
for the first time (aprox. 1 year ago) I really never dreamed about to get more Information
than published in the Videos. I couldn't belive it when I saw the first time, that there where
statements personally from Mr. Mark in this big thread on www.overunity.com!

I hope in the remaining 80% of the above-mentioned thread will become better and more appreciate
to this great person.
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on September 02, 2006, 10:39:18 PM
Marcus,

It's good to hear you will still work on your devices. This morning I am more convinced than ever that you and Patrick Stephen's MEG are on to something big-- real potential for "free energy."  If I ever get FEMM working, lol, then I have a design that will hopefully shed some light.

Hello Pawl 
(:D SCNR, just kidding - really! Every time you write Marcus I have to grin and say to myself "Oh he is once again thinking of Marcus Wagner.  :D But it's really no problem for me. You know, I am really insightfully)

Yes, as you ascertained I will not stop my experiments. Only shifting the area/range of experimenting.
I really want to suss out the secret of Mr. Marks fascinating power device. I am heavyly possessed by
his invention and the consequences for the mankind.
But to make progress, it requires some adaptions of the strategy some times. :-)


I would be very glad if you have success with your Idea.

Bye, Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: PaulLowrance on September 03, 2006, 05:08:39 PM
Hi Markus,

Here I am all this time thinking you were Marcus Wagner. He's not your brother is he, lol?  Marcus and Markus. ;-)

Sorry, my fault. I still like your device. It's even similar to MW's, no?

Paul
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on September 03, 2006, 10:56:18 PM
Hello z_p_e,

at first thank you very much for sharing your worked off informations about Mr. Marks invention!
:thumbsup: I think,I have enough to read the next time, including the mega SM-thread. :-)

Quote
One thing I would check before you get too far is the compensation of your scope probes.
The small bumps seen in your picture could be caused by an uncompensated probe.

I think the probes are proper compensated, because I compansate them according to the scopes user
manual... but I can be wrong.

I am not regular trained in using a scope. During my scholing -long time ago- I unfortunately
never learned how to use a scope. And my job(s) since then were never concerned to
electronics.

Okay I read some tutorials about using a scope, when I recently bought it, but I have no
practical experiences. :-/ So I could miss some important things during my experiements.

I use probes which are switchable from x1 factor to x10 factor. By today I used the probes
in x10 factor mode because I was afraid I could destroy my scope when some really heavy kickbacks
will appear during the measurements.

But I think the actually wire-experiment would not produce to high voltage kickbacks, so I could
use the probes in x1 factor mode.

But I have a novice question :blushing:
Do I understand it correclty, that probes with a x1 factor must NOT be compensate because they
pass through the signal unaltered to the scope?
If this is the case, then this mode would be the best to measure a correct signal, right?

Quote
The other thing that could be causing the small bump, is the inductance of your wire. It does appear that there is a significant enough inductance to cause a damped oscillation when the pulse goes low. To minimize the inductance, you could try a longer piece of wire, and keep it from forming any loops.

I have done the measurement again with a 2.5 meter long wire.
The wire is approx. 0.5mm in diameter. It's a wire which is used for telephone-installations
in germany. I took care that the wire does not form serveral loops, but it is in the nature
of this setup that I will have still *one* big loop.

Quote
One other thing is: which parameter should we be looking for? I, V, or P ? With your pictures, you are monitoring voltage, but perhaps is current the one that we should be looking for? If so, then I would suggest method #1 above be tried to see any effects. I'm not sure though if it makes any difference, as the effect may show in both.

Yes, but anyway one can only measure volages with a scope.

So when I measure the voltage across the wire I would also measure a value of the current
that flows throgh the wire. Not the absolute value but the tendecy. When the voltage alternation
goes up and down (wave looks like a hill), then IMHO we can be sure that it's not an alteration
of the resitance caused by a thermal increase of the wire.

Because if the wire would show an alteration in resistance caused by getting hotter, then the
measured signal would not drop shortly after the current will begin to flow. It would stay on
the higher level of voltage.
(Sorry I had some drinks in the meantime - I hope you understand what I mean ;-) )

Quote
Judging by the output voltage of CH1, it appears your signal generator has at least a 50 Ohm output as only about 6V is appearing there. You may try eliminating the diode and repeat the measurement. There should be no harm done to your generator, as you should be able to short its output directly without damage. Diodes can have a fairly significant "ON" resistance depending on the circuit and input parameters.

No, the generartors impedance is quite exactly the internal resistance of the 9.6 Volt accumulator.
Look at the schematic, the FET will switch the the full voltage through the wire.
The specified resistance of the FET, when it is in on-state, is less than 1 Ohm.

Please have a look on the new scope shots. If there are any errors in reasoning
please let me know. I'm not sure, but maybe this are really the kicks Mr. Mark told from.

Regards, Markus

(Ouhh, *burps* I have to go to bed now... No no, during the measurement I had no drink! ;-) )


@Paul: Hello Paul, no I have no brother. :-)
Quote
I still like your device. It's even similar to MW's, no?
As far as I know Marcus Wagner invented an "everlasting Battery", not an coil arrangement. But who knows? ;)
Edit 04.Sep.06: Paul, you're right! There is a battery charger made by Marcus Wagner. See here! (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:MWC) And this circuit use a coil arrangement.
It was Marcus Ried who invented the "crystal battery" (http://www.vakuumenergie.de/kristallagregat.html). Ouh, so much Marcus' around me...
Sorry, this time it was my failure. But also he is not my brother. ;)
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: MeggerMan on September 03, 2006, 11:46:26 PM
Hi Markus,
I see you are using a 9.6v (nicad?) drill power pack as your power supply.
You may want to put some large capacitors in your circuit, say about 20000uF to allow the Mosfet to fully switch on and to prevent the pulse circuit from losing its power during the "on" pulse.
Also I have seen circuits for PWM speed controllers use two transistors to fully switch the mosfet:
http://www.4qdtec.com/pwm-01.html#soph

You use a pnp and a npn transistor to fully turn the mosfet on and off.

I had no luck with my DC-DC circuit so I will build a pulse circuit like yours (using a 555) and test that instead.
I think the DC-DC controller is too clever for its own good and any changes introduced by the magnet I applied to the toroid was compensated for in the pulse applitude.  I did not use a scope, only 2 digital multi-meters measuring current.

Regards

Rob
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: z_p_e on September 04, 2006, 02:31:49 AM
Hi Markus.

Generally speaking, you can't measure the voltage across the 1 Ohm resistor that way. You are introducing a second ground in your circuit with the scope probe. This could explain why you are not measuring much voltage.

A better way to measure the voltage across the resistor (which will give you an indication of the current in the circuit) is to use both scope probes set at the same sensitivity, and in difference mode. There will be a switch somewhere that inverts channel 2 (usually) so that you can measure the difference between the two probes (CH1 - CH2). This way you do not load the circuit in any way, and your measurement will be true. So in your diagram, CH1 will be the same, but where you have the probe GND now, you will put CH2 there. You can attach one of the scope probe grounds to your circuit ground.

Your scope probe looks compensated....good stuff.

X10 probes are good when measuring high voltages, because it attenuates the signal. Also, they introduce less loading on the circuit you are measuring. Generally, X1 probes have a resistance of about 1M, and X10 probes are about 10M. For the measurement you are doing, the X1 position is more than adequate since your circuit contains relatively low resistances.

z_p_e
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on September 06, 2006, 10:37:43 PM
Sorry, I was busy in my job untill yet.

In my next measurements I will mind zpe's remarks.

But before I keep up with the tests I'm looking for an answer to one question:

It is a fact that there is a 'small bump/kick' when a current is start to float (see the screenshoot,
look at the small bump before the dumped oszillation on Ch1).
But how we can proof that this "extra energy" is not simply drawn from the battery?

I think it will not be possible to proof that, because even every small piece of wire which is
connected to the battery will show this bump, or not?

Any suggestions to solve this problem?


Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on September 06, 2006, 11:08:43 PM
Easier said then done maybe...
:)

I think your guesswork is 100% correct - This will not be easy to realize! :)

Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on September 06, 2006, 11:28:33 PM
Hello Rob,
I see you are using a 9.6v (nicad?) drill power pack as your power supply.
You may want to put some large capacitors in your circuit, say about 20000uF to allow the Mosfet to fully switch on and to prevent the pulse circuit from losing its power during the "on" pulse.

Yes, it's a NiCad power pack for a Drill, that's right.

But I think there are no capacitor needed to stabilize the puls which switch the MOSFET.
Look at the circuit diagram. The whole generator circuit is uncoupled from the "load-circuit".
It's feeded by a 5 volt voltage regulator, so the voltage of the NiCad must break down
under aprox. 6 Volt to affect the oscillator circuit.

But when I observe the battery voltage during the circuit is running nearly no voltage
break down is noticeably. Not even when I drive the circuit in 'shorten-modus' with 2.5 meter
of wire.

Anyway (and by the way): When I try to dive deeper into this experiments in future I will need
another generator. I think I will build my own digital squarewave generator based on a
microcontroller, so I can modify the software when the requirements will change.

Bye Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: hartiberlin on September 07, 2006, 01:52:58 AM
Markus,
if you want to check out Steven Mark?s circuit properties
you need to wind your coils with iron wire !
Get yourself this iron house-garden wire with such a green
isolation.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on September 11, 2006, 10:36:12 AM
Hi everyone,

sorry for the period of silence.

At first: Thank you for all your good suggestions.

I will do some fundamental experiements the next time to proove some statements
related to the SM device. That means I will trace some single ideas. That means also
I am not able to elaborate on all your varying good ideas in this time.
I also have an allday-job and some other liabiliies - my time is limited.

So, please don't wonder, when I don't post the next time in this thread. BUT I'am still stay
tuned and I will do progress (hopefully) in the background.

If there are major discoverys during my experiments, I post them of course!

And if some of the replicators -yes, you-  of the coil-toroid-magnet-setup have some new
cognitions, I would be happy to read about in this thread.

So keep on searching.

Regards, Markus
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: Jdo300 on September 16, 2006, 10:08:48 AM
Markus,
if you want to check out Steven Mark?s circuit properties
you need to wind your coils with iron wire !
Get yourself this iron house-garden wire with such a green
isolation.

Regards, Stefan.

Hey Stefan,

Do you remember which part of Steven's device had the iron coils? I know that he mentions the bailing wire in his early video, but that is the only reference I remember seeing.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: hartiberlin on September 17, 2006, 12:56:35 PM
Hi all,
I moved the recent info from Tao about the
Steven Mark coils into the main thread:
"The master of magnetics Steven Mark".

Please go on there with discussion the Steven Mark units.
This thread over here should be only discussing the Markus
setup of his devices.
Thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Interesting experiment with an transformer, 2 lamps, diodes and an magnet
Post by: GM on March 16, 2018, 10:49:02 PM

Nice to see that JL Naudin was apparently inspired by my experiment and was able to reproduce the effect.


http://jnaudin.free.fr/2SGen/indexen.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/2SGen/indexen.htm)
(Scroll down to "2SGen Version 6")


Sorry I haven't been active here for so long, but my real life has made me go other ways that have nothing to do with electronics and free energy research. Unfortunately, I am no longer equipped to carry out such experiments and I have earned my living in a completely different field.


In addition I now have family and a dog and obligations, which unfortunately leave me no room for this hobby. But it's nice to see that my little experiment wasn't completely in vain. ;-)


regards
Markus