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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: Alexioco on May 23, 2008, 12:28:22 PM

Title: MT 27
Post by: Alexioco on May 23, 2008, 12:28:22 PM
What do you think would happen if MT 27 was spun? What effect would CF have on it? Would those weights rise up through CF? I think this is a very important wheel, I have said this since the start, something about it facinates me, I have posted before something about it that no one seems to have took interest to.

? Bessler wrote:
This is the previous model slightly larger and altered: A are the levers interrupted at B and having a heart-weight at C, and D are the straps, or cords, and chains. It needs no further, lengthier explanation. This view shows what the thing might do if several things of this sort were placed next to one another along an axle-shaft.[/u]

Well I tried placing them around an axle/shaft and as I did i started to notice that a pattern started to emerge, I carried on placing it around and look what came out.

(http://i28.tinypic.com/2uf6e12.jpg)

Now surly that should bring some interest to you...

but still taking in what I said, what would the thing do through CF?

Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: sevich on May 23, 2008, 02:42:24 PM
@alexioco

IMO Besslers (wheel) drawings are absolute and complete rubbish! scraps for the pigs (zero nutitional value)

I've always studied what he wrote and not what he drew.....LILI  :o

I wish you good luck in your search.

Anton Marosevic
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: broli on May 23, 2008, 03:09:13 PM
@sevich;

It's called mind food you genius. Wether a wheel works or not you learn from it and use your own creativity to modify it. Reading alone isn't going to build you a working wheel.

@alexioco;

I also think this wheel is important or else MT 137 would be kind of a random drawing to make without any explanation or logical parts.
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: Alexioco on May 23, 2008, 04:49:13 PM
@sevich;

It's called mind food you genius. Wether a wheel works or not you learn from it and use your own creativity to modify it. Reading alone isn't going to build you a working wheel.

@alexioco;

I also think this wheel is important or else MT 137 would be kind of a random drawing to make without any explanation or logical parts.

Yeah and also there is something eles which I think is special about this wheel, and that is that the weights move right up to the axle and to the very edge, the other lever weights don't have that much movement, my cirrent wheel only has half of that movement, imagine if it had all of that movement...
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: broli on May 23, 2008, 06:20:06 PM
Here's a sim to help with the visualization of the dynamics of this MT.

http://broli.dommel.be/MT27.avi (http://broli.dommel.be/MT27.avi)
http://broli.dommel.be/MT27.wm2d (http://broli.dommel.be/MT27.wm2d)
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: Alexioco on May 23, 2008, 06:22:05 PM
Here's a sim to help with the visualization of the dynamics of this MT.

http://broli.dommel.be/MT27.avi (http://broli.dommel.be/MT27.avi)
http://broli.dommel.be/MT27.wm2d (http://broli.dommel.be/MT27.wm2d)

hmm strange, It wont play on my comp, says it wont support the file  ???
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: broli on May 23, 2008, 06:23:15 PM
It was still uploading you road runner  :D. Try it now.
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: Alexioco on May 23, 2008, 06:26:40 PM
lol I just can't wait can I  ::)

Edit: Ok I saw it, looks good, helps like you said with understanding the wheel.

Now, the orange weight makes it to the bottom, we now need the blue weight to go up and the orange weight to go to the axel this is where I believe parts of my wheel (ie MT 14, 15 and 25) come in and also MT 19 and 20.
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: AB Hammer on May 23, 2008, 06:39:16 PM
Music to Christmas tree.

Oh balanced wheel, Oh balanced wheel, why you sit there rocking
Oh balanced wheel, Oh balanced wheel, why you sit there rocking
What will it take, to make you run.
Or this is all, I get for fun.
Oh balanced wheel, Oh balanced wheel, why you sit there rocking
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: broli on May 23, 2008, 06:41:03 PM
I managed to make it turn 1.4x. Replaced some rods with ropes and a hack that's only good for one turn  ;D. Oh yeah slow wind friction is also turned on.
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: AB Hammer on May 23, 2008, 06:41:29 PM
I did a version of MT27 on paper with a few improvements but never felt the need to build it.
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: broli on May 23, 2008, 07:04:39 PM
Oke here's a video where it turns even more, about 2.5x. Now I know how it feels to be excited about a wheel alexioco  ;D. Anyways there's room for lots of tinkering, currently it seems to spin this much only if the wheel is much heavier than the weights, maybe acting as some sort of flywheel to keep the motion going?

http://broli.dommel.be/MT27V2.avi
http://broli.dommel.be/MT27V2.wm2d

(give 5 minutes after this post to upload)

Edit:Somehow the sim in the file got destroyed. I made destructuve changes but I didn't even save yet it somehow saved it for me and the wheel doesn't spin anymore. I will make a more accurate model now though.

Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: Alexioco on May 23, 2008, 07:11:54 PM
Interesting, I knew this wheel has some good qualities...

Well how about we look at it like this.

MT 27 Movement
MT 25 Movement

Now from this alone, what can we get out of it by combinding the two movements, lets all have a go then post your ideas...

(http://i28.tinypic.com/fvlo9i.jpg)
(http://i32.tinypic.com/sf9o9e.jpg)
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: hartiberlin on May 23, 2008, 11:14:00 PM
Oke here's a video where it turns even more, about 2.5x. Now I know how it feels to be excited about a wheel alexioco  ;D. Anyways there's room for lots of tinkering, currently it seems to spin this much only if the wheel is much heavier than the weights, maybe acting as some sort of flywheel to keep the motion going?

http://broli.dommel.be/MT27V2.avi
http://broli.dommel.be/MT27V2.wm2d

(give 5 minutes after this post to upload)

Edit:Somehow the sim in the file got destroyed. I made destructuve changes but I didn't even save yet it somehow saved it for me and the wheel doesn't spin anymore. I will make a more accurate model now though.




Hi Broli,
this wheel is also slowing down as you can see on the rotation speed
at the beginning of the movie and at the end of the movie.
Better use simular weights for the hanging weights like the disk.
Or make the disk only 2 to 5 times
more heavy as the weights, otherwise you too much flyhwheel effect.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: hartiberlin on May 23, 2008, 11:16:09 PM
Interesting, I knew this wheel has some good qualities...

Well how about we look at it like this.

MT 27 Movement
MT 25 Movement

Now from this alone, what can we get out of it by combinding the two movements, lets all have a go then post your ideas...

(http://i28.tinypic.com/fvlo9i.jpg)
(http://i32.tinypic.com/sf9o9e.jpg)

Hi Alex,
what is the heart shaped object ?
How does it move ?
Does it slide on a rod ?
What are ropes and what are rods ?
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: Alexioco on May 23, 2008, 11:24:46 PM
Hi Alex,
what is the heart shaped object ?
How does it move ?
Does it slide on a rod ?
What are ropes and what are rods ?

They are the normal MT's the heart shaped weight moves into the centre on one side and out on the other, there has to be a way to combined these two wheels...
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: rlortie on May 23, 2008, 11:47:16 PM
Stefan,

Here is MT 27 with explanation courtesy of orffyre.com.

As you can see this is quite different than depicted above. Why is the above not complete, I cannot answer?  A rod pivots from the rim to center joint then a strap, chain or rope is used to complete each segment. The reasoning for the heart shaped weights has been discussed @BesslerWheel.com  I cannot remember if any conclusive answer was derived.

Ralph
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: Alexioco on May 24, 2008, 09:48:19 PM
Ok I had a little mess around with this wheel, here is what I came up with...

(http://i25.tinypic.com/2j4od9e.jpg)

As the rim weight swings to the right, it pulls up the heart weight via pulley, the weight is controlled by those levers
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: Alexioco on May 30, 2008, 12:34:28 AM
Ok I just made MT 27, you will not believe what it does, some of you may think that the weights point of rest is at the bottom of the wheel? Well think again...

P.s I only made it with one weight......
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: Alexioco on May 30, 2008, 02:48:53 AM
Ok I just made MT 27, you will not believe what it does, some of you may think that the weights point of rest is at the bottom of the wheel? Well think again...

P.s I only made it with one weight......

edit: Ok I have perfected MT 27 to the point now where the weight raises itself  half way up the wheel as it gravitates into the centre...
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: hartiberlin on May 30, 2008, 03:21:11 AM
Alex,
can you please show some pictures or a video please ?
It is hard to imagine what it does only from your drawings.
Many thanks.
Title: Re: MT 27
Post by: Alexioco on May 30, 2008, 03:34:18 AM
Alex,
can you please show some pictures or a video please ?
It is hard to imagine what it does only from your drawings.
Many thanks.

Here is the footage...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrZoBAPDzZc

I the MT 27 wheel, I kept messing with it until I got what I wanted out of it, the weight as you will see actually lifts itself up along with the wheel...