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Author Topic: Johann Bessler information  (Read 31596 times)

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #60 on: May 30, 2008, 09:49:03 PM »
Footnote to the above:

Modern words where the word "Spiel" still applies in its old meaning : Spielkarten (deck of cards), Glockenspiel (a musical instrument) Schachspiel (chessboard plus figures). In each of these terms the word Spiel applies to an OBJECT, not to what is being played with it.

Hans

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #60 on: May 30, 2008, 09:49:03 PM »

Offline John Collins

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #61 on: May 30, 2008, 11:52:03 PM »
Thank you Hans.  May I quote you in my book?  :-)

John


Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #62 on: May 31, 2008, 01:18:57 AM »
G'day John,

Certainly you may quote me. After all I've put it out there haven't I?  ;D

Hans

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #62 on: May 31, 2008, 01:18:57 AM »
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Offline eavogels

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #63 on: May 31, 2008, 08:54:03 AM »
Thank you Hans.  May I quote you in my book?  :-)
Oops, I just bought the 5 books from John. Who made those translations? If one line is already different, what about a whole book?
/Eric

Offline John Collins

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #64 on: May 31, 2008, 09:15:48 AM »
Eric, the translations are good.  The text in the toys page is handwritten and difficult to read. The original translation done by Mike Senior, resident in the UK, who has a degree in 18th century German literature, was almost identical to Hans' version.  I was posting my own efforts at reading the text because I thought that some words might have been incorrectly read, not incorrectly translated.

The text in Maschinen Tractate was also handwritten and open to interpretation but you will find very little difference between the MT English text in my book and that available at www.orffyre.com, as both were done by another translator in the USA, but with the most minor 'corrections' by me.

The other books Grundlicher Bericht, Das Tri and Apologia Poetica are printed text and although Apologia Poetica has suffered from ink migration over the centuries since it was published, it is a possible to read 99.9% correctly and intuitively work out the remainder correctly.

Translations used in my book," Perpetual Motion;An Ancient Mystery Solved?" were taken from professional translations published some time ago but regarded as accurate.

Hope this helps.

John

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #64 on: May 31, 2008, 09:15:48 AM »
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Offline eavogels

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #65 on: May 31, 2008, 09:49:18 AM »
Hope this helps.
Yes, it does. Thanks.
Eric.

Offline Dgraphic911

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2008, 10:16:39 PM »
I purchased Johns Book PM AAMS and was very disappointed when i read the whole thing and the plan for the wheel was not in their anywhere.  :-[

But seriously, I hope everyone understands that the groundwork that has been layed and the incredible amount of research that has been done by John and others like Bill, is priceless and brings anyone up to speed much much faster. John is being very much open minded to his credit. We are talking about 300 year old texts in a language that noone has used exclusively for 60 plus years. Johns books are a very valuable part of this search and an excellant source of information.

The fact that he is also being open minded about alternative ideas is really exceptional. I think that Hans and Stefan(he said he studied Suterlin ?) would be a very nice addition to helping look at these MT's translations. I know that both Hans and Stefan are also very busy with many other things so i make no assumtions as to whether they would have time.

I don't think its going to be spelled out in the MT's but whether he did all or some i am very interested in any slight variations or sutle nuances in writing style that may suggest something other that what we have now. Whether the translations are the same or slightly different i think it would also reinvigorate discussion about the MT's. Some feel the Mt's should just be disregarded as failed attempts but IMHO he is trying to hint at something. Look here, or there.


Anyway, John, keep up the great work. (if hans will looK at the early 1-25 Mt's translations i would be more than happy to pay the PDF file fee to have it sent to him.)  US$ boo hoo

@all who don't own johns books, Buy them they are priceless.

@Hans and Stefan.  I'm sure i speak for some when i say that any help, at your leisure. Would be Greatly appreciated. Even if its only some small slight variation in one of the MT's translations. We seekers are always hungry for any new information or path of thought.


Thank you,


PS john, can you put the plans in the new book ;D

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2008, 10:16:39 PM »
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Offline DrWhat

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2008, 01:05:03 AM »
I've said this before and I'll say it again, if you are serious about finding a solution to Bessler's wheel or even if you are generally interested in gravity wheels, you need to get all the publications (from John Collins). These include translations of original Bessler documents, Bessler's drawings, a biography of a large chunk of his life and so on.

When I got the documents I was surprised how much is in there.

Offline Charlie_V

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2008, 04:31:59 AM »
Someone linked a website about Bessler and I read a little bit about him.  I had never heard of him until now.  It said that his wheels were hollow and that there was something on the inside that unbalanced them.  It also said that it was the inside of the wheel that held the secret, not the outside.

Some guy supported him, letting him live in a castle, but the guy wanted Bessler to show him what was inside the wheel first.  That guy said it was so simple he was surprised no one had ever thought of it.  Now the website gave an animation of what people speculate was on the inside, I'm pretty sure the animation is not correct.  If it was, someone would have a working Bessler wheel by now. 

So, did Bessler leave ANY clues as to what was on the inside?  It seems to me that this secret died with him - after all, it was the inside of the wheel that was for sale.  The website said that in all accounts the machine was very noisy.

Any thoughts as to what was on the inside, did he leave any clues?

Thanks,
Charlie

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2008, 04:31:59 AM »
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Offline Sprocket

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #69 on: June 01, 2008, 05:58:49 AM »
Bessler left a considerable amount of info - check this site for details:

http://www.orffyre.com/mt.html

Unfortunately, none of these example wheels work as far as I'm aware - they were supposedly produced as "learning material" by Bessler for the school he had planned to open, but never materialised.  Many apparently employ ideas that could lead to a working wheel - Bessler's students (that never were) would no doubt have been told which were useful, we, on the other hand, are left fumbling in the dark...

They are utterly fascinating nonetheless :)

Offline John Collins

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2008, 05:31:27 PM »
Dgraphic, everything I know will be in the new book.  More than half of it is taken up with an explanation of the coded clues, and there are literally dozens and dozens of them.  There will be plans, but I don't know if I have enough to build the replica of Bessler's whel, but I think so.  Any way everytthing will be included.  Thanks for your encouragement guys.

CharlieV, I think you can see that there are a lot of clues about how the wheel worked and I am confident that someone will do it this year and what better time than now?

John

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2008, 05:31:27 PM »
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Offline DrWhat

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2008, 06:29:18 AM »
Hi John,

any idea of a date of publication (paper or online?).

Thanks

Offline John Collins

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2008, 07:26:40 AM »
Quote
any idea of a date of publication (paper or online?).

I can only say I hope it will be soon and probably August/September this year.

John

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2008, 08:38:19 AM »
G'day all,

I owe you an apology for leading you up the garden path in one of my comments. I had honestly thought that woodcuts were no longer in common use for technical drawings in Bessler's time. This is not so. I have just received a book of Helmholz lectures published in 1825 and they used woodcuts for the technical illustrations. I did a bit of checking.

Deep etching as used today and used in letterpresses has apparently not been around all that long. In Besslers time etchings required intaglio printing whereas woodcuts could be used in a letterpress.

Sorry for the goof.

Hans von Lieven

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Johann Bessler information
« Reply #74 on: June 09, 2008, 11:27:53 PM »
G'day all,

On further examination of MT 138 (see post 29 this thread) I think I know now what figures A and B represent. I believe this to be the front and side view of the same device, a Jacob's ladder. It is an ancient toy, an example of which was found in King Tut's tomb. Bessler mentions the Jacob's ladder in his writings.

This is how it works:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/764310/jacobs_ladder_optical_illusion_toy/

Any comments?

Hans von Lieven

 

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